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NYC Duke Fan
02-05-2008, 08:43 PM
Jeff Goodman On Fox Sports says that as of today Kevin Love is the Player Of The Year over Tyler Hansbrough.

I remember reading on posts a while ago why it was a good thing that Coach K did not recruit Love. Do those who echoed those sentiments still believe that to be the case? Yes Duke is ranked # 2 now, but I doubt that those who dissed Love can honestly think that with him we wouldn't be the odds on favorite to win the tournament.

Yes it is old news and I should appreciate the team as it now stands, and I honestly love watching this team mature and play this season. My point, however, is let's not diss a high school player until we see him play at a college level.

CDu
02-05-2008, 09:23 PM
Jeff Goodman On Fox Sports says that as of today Kevin Love is the Player Of The Year over Tyler Hansbrough.

I remember reading on posts a while ago why it was a good thing that Coach K did not recruit Love. Do those who echoed those sentiments still believe that to be the case? Yes Duke is ranked # 2 now, but I doubt that those who dissed Love can honestly think that with him we wouldn't be the odds on favorite to win the tournament.

Yes it is old news and I should appreciate the team as it now stands, and I honestly love watching this team mature and play this season. My point, however, is let's not diss a high school player until we see him play at a college level.

If I recall correctly, the reasons people said it was a good idea to not recruit Love were not related to his talent. They were due to potential personality issues and the possibility that his dad was a control freak. I don't believe anyone questioned his talent.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-05-2008, 10:02 PM
They were due to potential personality issues and the possibility that his dad was a control freak. I don't believe anyone questioned his talent.

One Ken Burgess was enough.

But if Love did come here, what an alumni parents/relatives jam session weekend party we could have with both Chubby Checker and Brian Wilson in attendance!

NYC Duke Fan
02-06-2008, 03:03 AM
If I recall correctly, the reasons people said it was a good idea to not recruit Love were not related to his talent. They were due to potential personality issues and the possibility that his dad was a control freak. I don't believe anyone questioned his talent.

If Ben Howland can deal with then I'm sure that Coach K could have done so as well.

CDu
02-06-2008, 06:26 AM
If Ben Howland can deal with then I'm sure that Coach K could have done so as well.

It's not a matter of "could," it's a matter of "would." Coach K WOULDN'T deal with it.

Would I have liked to have had Love's talent on the team? Sure. But that's not the issue. And, it's kind of irrelevant. For one, we don't know how interested Love was in Duke. For another, we don't know if his dad would have let him come to Duke. And I don't believe Coach K was interested in dealing with either.

dukerev
02-06-2008, 07:17 AM
Let's remember the biggest thing that most of us think is propelling Duke so far this year: chemistry. This is not to say that Love couldn't have meshed with our team. But we know that we're awfully freakin' good with what we have.

dukeENG2003
02-06-2008, 07:19 AM
I'd rather have McRoberts back than Kevin Love.

BlueintheFace
02-06-2008, 09:52 AM
Coach K stopped recruiting Love because it became very clear that he would only get one of the two oregon talents. I am going to go ahead and say I am REALLY GLAD he chose Kyle to pursue... there were also some family issues with Kevin Love (read- his father was awful and even ran into the locker room at halftime and yelled at Love's high school coach on occasion) ... also, Love might be leaving after this year or next.

NYC Duke Fan
02-06-2008, 09:52 AM
I'd rather have McRoberts back than Kevin Love.

Then obviously chemistry is not an issue with you. As to talent, Love is a much more talented college player than McRoberts ever was.

sandinmyshoes
02-06-2008, 09:58 AM
Jeff Goodman gets to decide who is POY? When did that come about?:rolleyes:

CMS2478
02-06-2008, 10:06 AM
Jeff Goodman gets to decide who is POY? When did that come about?:rolleyes:

But if he is picking Love over Hanstravel I will go along with that. I know I am a Duke fan an biased, but do y'all really think Hanstravel is THAT GOOD??? The majority of his points come from free-throws (bc he gets a foul called evertime he touches it). In that FSU game he was absolutely AWFUL. Yea, he ended up getting his double-double, but it was from free-throws. I'm not going to say that he isn't good, bc he is. However, I don't consider him the best player in college basketball, the problem is I really don't who is???

sandinmyshoes
02-06-2008, 10:16 AM
But if he is picking Love over Hanstravel I will go along with that. I know I am a Duke fan an biased, but do y'all really think Hanstravel is THAT GOOD??? The majority of his points come from free-throws (bc he gets a foul called evertime he touches it). In that FSU game he was absolutely AWFUL. Yea, he ended up getting his double-double, but it was from free-throws. I'm not going to say that he isn't good, bc he is. However, I don't consider him the best player in college basketball, the problem is I really don't who is???


So, getting to the foul line is a bad thing? I'll bet hitting something like 80% of his freethrows is bad too!

Seriously, I think the Clemson and FSU games are considered his two worst games this season, and in the FSU game he got TWENTY ONE rebounds.

As for Love, I have no idea if he's better than Hansbrough, at least as a college player, but I suspect he'll be drafted higher because he has a much better shooting game, with range, and his outlet passing is drool worthy.

I do agree that it's hard to decide who IS the best player in college basketball. No stand alone superstars this year from what I've seen.

jimsumner
02-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Yes, Tyler Hansbrough is that good.

And I'm pretty sure most coaches kinda getting points from the foul line.

CMS2478
02-06-2008, 10:22 AM
So, getting to the foul line is a bad thing? I'll bet hitting something like 80% of his freethrows is bad too!

Seriously, I think the Clemson and FSU games are considered his two worst games this season, and in the FSU game he got TWENTY ONE rebounds.

As for Love, I have no idea if he's better than Hansbrough, at least as a college player, but I suspect he'll be drafted higher because he has a much better shooting game, with range, and his outlet passing is drool worthy.

I do agree that it's hard to decide who IS the best player in college basketball. No stand alone superstars this year from what I've seen.

It is just funny that Carolina fans complain that we get all the calls, yet if you look at Hanstravel the wrong way, you get whistled. Then there is the whole traveling thing that would negate the majority of his points if it were called correctly. He gets away with it consistently and should fit in the NBA nicely as he will be accustomed to getting that extra step.

CMS2478
02-06-2008, 10:26 AM
While I am on the issue of Hanstravel, I also get sick of hearing how he "takes a beating" every 2 seconds. I must be the only one that notices that HE INITIATES MOST OF THE CONTACT. OK, rant over and I am good now!!!

dukeENG2003
02-06-2008, 10:41 AM
Then obviously chemistry is not an issue with you. As to talent, Love is a much more talented college player than McRoberts ever was.

See my other posts on this topic (they are scattered throughout all the inane threads about "addition by subtraction" posts). IMO, losing caused the lack of chemistry with McRoberts and the rest of the team, not the other way around; but there is no way to prove either side of that argument.

I'm not sure if I agree with Love being a superior college player at this point (he's got a higher ceiling, but remember, we're comparing would be junior to a freshman), but its a difficult comparison since they play very different positions. Love has more post talents by far, but wouldn't fit our style of game nearly as well as McBob (McBob is and was a FAR superior ball handler and passer). I'd say they are about equivalent as far as their rebounding abilities, and I give the nod to McBob on D (better shot blocker, since he could actually get himself up off the floor).

McBob would have helped this team more and with less chemistry issues that Love would have brought.

As far as Love versus Hanstravel, they are very similar players who play very similar games, and Hans"fouled?" is better at it. Personally, I don't think either of them should be POY. Michael Beasley is a man amongst boys, and would embarass either of them.

gw67
02-06-2008, 10:47 AM
Love, Hansbrough, Beasley and two or three other freshmen are exceptional players. I like Beasley and Love for POY but I suspect that Hansbrough is better known and will get more votes, particularly if the Heels do well.

I know that I go against the vast majority of Devils' supporters but I admire Hansbrough as a player. Near the basket, he reminds me of Art Heyman with his ability to get his shot off and to garner fouls. With all the remarks by Duke and Maryland fans about his footwork, I've also tried to watch him on replays to see how much travelling he really does. Based on what I've seen, he does not travel very much and probably much less than the other big men in the ACC.

gw67

CDu
02-06-2008, 10:54 AM
See my other posts on this topic (they are scattered throughout all the inane threads about "addition by subtraction" posts). IMO, losing caused the lack of chemistry with McRoberts and the rest of the team, not the other way around; but there is no way to prove either side of that argument.

I'm not sure if I agree with Love being a superior college player at this point (he's got a higher ceiling, but remember, we're comparing would be junior to a freshman), but its a difficult comparison since they play very different positions. Love has more post talents by far, but wouldn't fit our style of game nearly as well as McBob (McBob is and was a FAR superior ball handler and passer). I'd say they are about equivalent as far as their rebounding abilities, and I give the nod to McBob on D (better shot blocker, since he could actually get himself up off the floor).

McBob would have helped this team more and with less chemistry issues that Love would have brought.

As far as Love versus Hanstravel, they are very similar players who play very similar games, and Hans"fouled?" is better at it. Personally, I don't think either of them should be POY. Michael Beasley is a man amongst boys, and would embarass either of them.

I think the chemistry "issue" with McRoberts was that he got frustrated with losing. It's a chicken-or-the-egg question.

As for McRoberts versus Love, I again agree. Love has great potential. But firstly, we don't know how good McRoberts would have been as a junior. Second, McRoberts' skillset (defense, running the floor, athleticism, shot-blocking) are a better fit. Love is the better all-around talent, but he may not fit what we are missing quite as well.

In any case, the point is sort of moot. The original post seemed to be sort of a retrospective claim that people underrated Love. I think that premise is simply not accurate. Love is a fantastic player, and I think pretty much everyone knew that coming in.

sandinmyshoes
02-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Love, Hansbrough, Beasley and two or three other freshmen are exceptional players. I like Beasley and Love for POY but I suspect that Hansbrough is better known and will get more votes, particularly if the Heels do well.

I know that I go against the vast majority of Devils' supporters but I admire Hansbrough as a player. Near the basket, he reminds me of Art Heyman with his ability to get his shot off and to garner fouls. With all the remarks by Duke and Maryland fans about his footwork, I've also tried to watch him on replays to see how much travelling he really does. Based on what I've seen, he does not travel very much and probably much less than the other big men in the ACC.

gw67

I'm glad I'm not alone. The whining of so many Duke fans about Hansbrough travelling reminds me soooooo much of having to listen to UNC fans whine about Shane "flopping." If either one of them got away with some of that it's because they were so good at NOT doing it they established in the minds of the refs that it was possible for them to make the play without travelling/floppping. And I have been watching games where my Duke fan friends are screaming "Travel!" and I'm thinking, "How can you possibly know that since the camera is either not showing his feet or his feet are obscured by those of other players?"

I think a lot of this is just pure, biased frustration that a kid who is a solid but not spectacular athlete can be so effective.

Johnboy
02-06-2008, 11:02 AM
I know that I go against the vast majority of Devils' supporters but I admire Hansbrough as a player.


I dunno about that - I'd love to have him on my team any day, and I suspect that most knowledgeable fans (including other Duke fans) would like to as well. He works as hard or harder than anyone in the game, he doesn't seem to be a lockerroom cancer, and he's generally conducted himself well. The only thing not to like is that godawful uniform he wears. He's a target for fan wrath in the same way Shane Battier was. We like to call him "Hanstravel" and they used to call Shane "Floppier".

Edited to add: great minds run on the same tracks! Sandinmyshoes beat me to it!

CDu
02-06-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm glad I'm not alone. The whining of so many Duke fans about Hansbrough travelling reminds me soooooo much of having to listen to UNC fans whine about Shane "flopping." If either one of them got away with some of that it's because they were so good at NOT doing it they established in the minds of the refs that it was possible for them to make the play without travelling/floppping. And I have been watching games where my Duke fan friends are screaming "Travel!" and I'm thinking, "How can you possibly know that since the camera is either not showing his feet or his feet are obscured by those of other players?"

I think a lot of this is just pure, biased frustration that a kid who is a solid but not spectacular athlete can be so effective.

I disagree. For one, I think Battier DID get away with a lot of flops. He also did a lot of great things defensively, which is why he was such a great player. Similarly, Hansbrough gets away with a lot of travels. He also does a lot of great things offensively, which is what makes him a great player. The number of incidents is certainly exaggerated by many opposing fans (in both cases), but it happens. Even many UNC fans admit that Hansbrough gets away with travelling.

The thing that's more annoying to me, though, is that officials allow Hansbrough to dive into players to draw fouls. That's not a condemnation of Hansbrough - he's just taking what's given to him. It's a condemnation of officiating. You shouldn't bail a guy out because he can jump into a guy and still put up a shot.

dukeENG2003
02-06-2008, 11:42 AM
The thing that's more annoying to me, though, is that officials allow Hansbrough to dive into players to draw fouls. That's not a condemnation of Hansbrough - he's just taking what's given to him. It's a condemnation of officiating. You shouldn't bail a guy out because he can jump into a guy and still put up a shot.

We're agreeing a lot! Definitely this is the single most annoying thing about him. I'd like to see a lot more no calls on him inside. I don't think he charges, just that he initiates a lot of the contact, and because of that it should be a no call.

yancem
02-07-2008, 10:36 PM
The thing that's more annoying to me, though, is that officials allow Hansbrough to dive into players to draw fouls. That's not a condemnation of Hansbrough - he's just taking what's given to him. It's a condemnation of officiating. You shouldn't bail a guy out because he can jump into a guy and still put up a shot.

I don't disagree that Hans initiates a lot of the contact that ends up as fouls called on the defender and I find it highly annoying. But, I remember Danny Ferry doing the same things. He was a master of causing contact to draw a foul. He just didn't have the awful facial expressions ;)

3rd Dukie
02-08-2008, 12:21 AM
Coach K stopped recruiting Love because it became very clear that he would only get one of the two oregon talents. I am going to go ahead and say I am REALLY GLAD he chose Kyle to pursue... there were also some family issues with Kevin Love (read- his father was awful and even ran into the locker room at halftime and yelled at Love's high school coach on occasion) ... also, Love might be leaving after this year or next.

That is my understanding as well. I was told point blank by folks who should know that Love and Kyle were oil and water, mostly due to Love. He was VERY upset at being the player of the year nationally and only the co-player of the year in Oregon. He was very ticked off. If I get a vote, I'm taking Kyle, thank you very much.
However, I do have to admit that I was concerned about the same thing regarding Taylor King. I have since been proven dead wrong. TK's attitude amazes me and I am thrilled he is a Blue Devil. For a kid with his talent, this must be a tough adjustment, and he is handling it amazingly well. Good going, TK!
Attitudes like his go a long way toward establishing the great chemistry this team has acquired.