Bob Knight resigns

[Bluedog]

Bob Knight resigns effective immediately....

http://lubbockonline.com/stories/020408/loc_243647726.shtml

[throatybeard]

Zuh?

At least he passed Dean.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230737

[wilson]

There's no "mouth hanging open" smiley, but...wow. Something obviously happened here. The Lubbock link appears to be (understandably) slammed right now; I can't get through. But the link on ESPN.com has a terse two-sentence statement, with no explanation, speculation, or even "more to come." I can't wait to hear the whole story.

Edit: So throaty's link obviously has more info, but it's almost entirely of the "career re-hash" sort. Something is fishy.

[pamtar]

Wow.

That is premature. Anybody know why?

RMK is definitely one of my favorite people in sports.

[Acymetric]

I'm disappointed...a lot of people seem to dislike him, but he's one of my favorite coaches that isn't Coach K (I also always liked Boheim, and there are others). I hope that this turns out to be something innocent, I'd hate to see him caught up in another scandal.

[pamtar]

There's no "mouth hanging open" smiley, but...wow. Something obviously happened here. The Lubbock link appears to be (understandably) slammed right now; I can't get through. But the link on ESPN.com has a terse two-sentence statement, with no explanation, speculation, or even "more to come." I can't wait to hear the whole story.

Edit: So throaty's link obviously has more info, but it's almost entirely of the "career re-hash" sort. Something is fishy.

I cant find anything but the AP write-up on every site. Maybe the Lubbock News online knows something that everyone else doesn't.

[socaldukie]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10618978

not any more detail or reasoning...

[Clipsfan]

I know, my reaction was "What the hell?" The thing is, his son is taking over the program, which makes it even harder for me to guess what happened.

[feldspar]

This from KCBD Channel 11 in Lubbock:


Sources tell NewsChannnel 11 that Coach Knight told Athletic Director Gerald Myers that he was ready to quit and tired of coaching. NewsChannel 11 is at Texas Tech learning more about this developing story and we'll have the latest on NewsChannel 11 at 6 and 10.

Doesn't surprise me that Knight would just up and leave his players hanging like that in the middle of a season where his kids have a shot at going to the Big Dance again.

RMK has always been Numero Uno.

[wilson]

Good point, Clips. That makes me wonder if it's health related? Methinks another scandal would paint his son in quite the negative light.
On a more positive note, K could now catch RMK considerably sooner than I had expected, and has a good shot at the first men's coach to 1000 wins.

Edit: Make that the first D-1 men's coach. A cool prospect to consider nonetheless.

[Bluedog]

I cant find anything but the AP write-up on every site. Maybe the Lubbock News online knows something that everyone else doesn't.

Nah, I got through the Lubbock article and it doesn't reveal anything. Just says he notified the AD this morning and his son, Pat, will take over for the rest of the season. Definitely a shocking and unexpected occurrence.

[-jk]

Perhaps he wants his son to have an on-the-job evaluation rather than face a selection process.

We'll likely never really know, regardless of what the pundits say - or what he says.

-jk

[thomas]

Doesn't this mean that Coach K leads active coaches in wins?

He is, by my recollection, 108 wins behind Knight.

[jjasper0729]

eddie sutton is at 800

[johnb]

His son was already slated for the head coaching job; that was part of the reason he chose Tech.

[tbyers11]

Pat Knight has had a contract signed to succeed his father (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2178317) for over 2 years now.

There have been rumors that RMK was going to hang it up after this season and he just got 900 wins a couple of weeks ago. I don't think there are health concerns. I kind of believe his statement that he just got sick of coaching.

However, it does seem like a rather selfish act. I just can't decide if it is a bad or good thing for his players :rolleyes:

[NovaScotian]

Pat Knight has had a contract signed to succeed his father (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2178317) for over 2 years now.

There have been rumors that RMK was going to hang it up after this season and he just got 900 wins a couple of weeks ago. I don't think there are health concerns. I kind of believe his statement that he just got sick of coaching.

However, it does seem like a rather selfish act. I just can't decide if it is a bad or good thing for his players :rolleyes:

i think its a good thing - they're playing well and he want to make the transition to pat as coach now while their in full swing, rather than do it in the off season.

that said, i love love love bob knight and i wish him the best in retirement

[MikeS]

I don't see Knight being forced to resign I don't see him allowing that to happen and if so he wouldn't let his son stay. this is weird.

[rthomas]

I've never had respect for Knight and happy he is gone. Very happy.

[billybreen]

Definitely feels like he used Texas Tech to get the record then dropped them as soon as he didn't need them anymore. At least stick it out for another month and a half. Bizarre.

[sandinmyshoes]

The ESPN article now says that he decided to retire after talking to Pete Newell. The implication I got was that he was only hanging on to finish the year and figured Pat could do it well enough. Just finally decided it was no longer fun, I guess.

[greybeard]

I'm surprised at how liked and respected Knight is by many here. I was never a fan.

Never liked the style his teams played, any of them with the exception of when Zeke was there. Found his teams mind-numbingly boring.

Never cared for leadership by bullying. I think that there is way too much bullying among coaches at all levels. Coaches who are bullies seem to believe, and others seem to accept, that their behaviors are the stuff of leadership, and, if they produce results, the proof is there for all to see. Me, I never could.

For those who wanted to play for the guy, well, they were all stars who had plenty of other options. RMK, the problem for me is, allowed other coaches for too long to justify their own misconduct as leadership, and point to Knight as proof. So, my own personal view, the guy was a blight on coaching.

Bye.

[rthomas]

It's instructive that ESPN has a poll and asks How Bob Knight will be remembered and the choices are:

Undefeated championship with Indiana (1976)

Charged with assaulting a police office in Puerto Rico (1979)

Throwing a chair against Purdue (1985)

Forfeits exhibition against USSR after refusing to leave court after ejection (1987)

Wins third national championship at Indiana on closing-seconds shot (1987)

Pretends to whip Indiana player Calbert Cheaney (1992)

Appears to kicked either Pat Knight or his chair (1993)

Allegedly chokes Neil Reed (1997)

Forced out at Indiana after breaking zero-tolerance policy (2000)

All-time wins record in men's college basketball

Consistently excellent graduation rates

And thus far the winner is: throwing the chair.

[IUGrad03]

This from KCBD Channel 11 in Lubbock:



Doesn't surprise me that Knight would just up and leave his players hanging like that in the middle of a season where his kids have a shot at going to the Big Dance again.

RMK has always been Numero Uno.

I had the privelege of watching him in action for two years at IU (he was fired before my junior year) and I can definitely say that he loves his kids. It was heartbreaking for him to have to leave them when he got fired at IU. I too am shocked that he left midseason, but there is surely a good reason for this.

That being said, I miss him already.

[rthomas]

I can definitely say that he loves his kids.

yea, see my post directly before yours.

[mgtr]

As I recall, the IU firing was totally phony. A student (non-athlete) baited Knight in front of the Pres and Knight reacted. Bang, gone. Ultimately, Knight sued IU for wrongful firing, and I don't know what happened, but he probably got money. Knight was a great coach, straight arrow, never cheated, never worried about PR, did a few stupid things (which of us has not?). The sport will miss him.

[rockymtn devil]

I had the privelege of watching him in action for two years at IU (he was fired before my junior year) and I can definitely say that he loves his kids. It was heartbreaking for him to have to leave them when he got fired at IU. I too am shocked that he left midseason, but there is surely a good reason for this.

That being said, I miss him already.

I'd say that Feldspar is right on this one. Knight's beef with K was childish and one of many examples of him putting himself above everyone else. Also, at the end of the day, Knight spent the last 16 seasons of his career coaching irrelevant teams. Indiana couldn't get passed the first weekend of the tournament in the waning years of his tenure there and Texas Tech has never lit the world on fire (how many times did he lost to Sam Houston State?).

College basketball just got a little better.

[mgtr]

I will even go a step further. Without Bob Knight, we don't have a Coach K. It will be very interesting to see what Coach K says about Knight. I expect it to be glowing. If so, how can the rest of us mere mortals complain?????

[rockymtn devil]

As I recall, the IU firing was totally phony. A student (non-athlete) baited Knight in front of the Pres and Knight reacted. Bang, gone. Ultimately, Knight sued IU for wrongful firing, and I don't know what happened, but he probably got money. Knight was a great coach, straight arrow, never cheated, never worried about PR, did a few stupid things (which of us has not?). The sport will miss him.

I never understood this reasoning. Do Knight's defenders actually believe that strangling a kid, using soiled toilet paper to motivate players, throwing chairs, bullying secretaries, getting in fights at salad bars, and shooting people are just examples of "a few stupid things"? Where I come from that's not "a few stupid things". It's a pattern anger management issues, if not serious psychological problems.

Knight had a career's worth of Woody Hayes moments. With that said, I too am sorry to see him resign like this. I would've preferred him have a Woody Hayes ending.

[rthomas]

As I recall, the IU firing was totally phony. A student (non-athlete) baited Knight in front of the Pres and Knight reacted. Bang, gone. Ultimately, Knight sued IU for wrongful firing, and I don't know what happened, but he probably got money. Knight was a great coach, straight arrow, never cheated, never worried about PR, did a few stupid things (which of us has not?). The sport will miss him.

yea, see post #23.

[dukeENG2003]

I much prefer Knight to a lot of current ACC coaches (Seth Greenberg and his thugs, for example) despite those coaches being much nicer guys to talk to. He's hard on his players, sure, but his program has always been clean, his players never play dirty, and if you ask any of his PLAYERS about him, they have nothing but good things to say about him. He's no saint, and definitely has issues (mostly anger management), but he was someone who actually understood the concept of a STUDENT athlete, something thats rare these days.

I, for one, will miss him. He was a great coach and a great teacher.

[jlear]

Knight was a great coach, straight arrow, never cheated, never worried about PR, did a few stupid things (which of us has not?).

I have never throw a chair...but i did slam my mouse down on Friday night. What you call a few stupid things many call a pattern of very poor decisions. Not the role model I would want for any of my kids.

[OldPhiKap]

1. I will reserve judgment on "why" he resigned at this time until we learn more. Could be health, could be concern for his kid, could be that he just doesn't give a cr@p anymore. No reason to guess.

2. I have always sort of admired Knight, but I would hate his friggin' guts if he were an opposing ACC coach. Not sure what that means, but there it is.

3. Knight is about Knight. Can't say I like that too much.

4. Sutton is treading water, so K is the de facto ACTIVE leader. I would be surprised if Sutton is back next year (or, for a year or two beyond this).

5. GTHC. Anything else this week is just a distraction.

6. ES, Dean Smith, ES. (Those of my generation know that of which I speak).

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Perhaps he wants his son to have an on-the-job evaluation rather than face a selection process.

We'll likely never really know, regardless of what the pundits say - or what he says.

-jk

Coach Knight's son was designated his successor in 2005.... no further selection process is needed, nor any further evaluations of his son as a coach.

[feldspar]

I can definitely say that he loves his kids.

Many wife beaters genuinely love their wives, too.

[dukie8]

Also, at the end of the day, Knight spent the last 16 seasons of his career coaching irrelevant teams. Indiana couldn't get passed the first weekend of the tournament in the waning years of his tenure there and Texas Tech has never lit the world on fire (how many times did he lost to Sam Houston State?).

are aware that he went to the sweet 16 in 2005 with texas tech and from '91-'94 he went sweet 16, final 4 (lost to duke), elite 8 and sweet 16 with indiana? you may want to check your facts next tim ebefore ripping him.

he may have been a jerk and an egomaniac but he really got a ton out of not a lot of talent (how many nba players has he coached in the past 20 years), he had next to no off-the-court issues with players and he graduated his players. how many bcs coaches can claim the last 2? the fact that everyone knew he was a complete ballbuster and he still had guys lining up to play for him should give you some idea about what people who really matter thought of him.

[dukie8]

so what's the over/under on when k takes out knight's win record? the final 4 in 2011?

[feldspar]

the fact that everyone knew he was a complete ballbuster and he still had guys lining up to play for him should give you some idea about what people who really matter thought of him.

Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?

[jlear]

so what's the over/under on when k takes out knight's win record? the final 4 in 2011?

Does anyone know if Coach K cares about the wins record?

[dukemsu]

Love him or hate him, Knight's a true American original, a relic from a bygone time. He once said of K that K had all of Knight's positive attributes but none of his negatives. That's a discussion for another time.

It's unfortunate that he left in the middle of a season. I can see that some think he used TT for the record, and there may be merit there. I truly think there's something else going on-perhaps health related.

I am glad that there was no Woody Hayes moment for Knight-he left on his own accord. Knight should be remembered for his great teams (75, 76, 81, 87, the 92 team Duke beat in the Final 4, and the 93 team that likely would have been National Champions had Alan Henderson not gone out with a knee injury). Those teams were driven clones, cutting, passing, great shooters, and strong defensive teams. His best teams had a machine-like quality that could be beautiful to watch at the same time.

Still, there's no ignoring the long list of blowups. Knight will always be remembered for demanding discipline from his players. The reason he is the ultimate contradiction was that he had so much difficulty in disciplining his own behavior.

All the best to him in retirement. There won't be another like him. That may be a good thing.

[dukie8]

Ever heard of Stockholm syndrome?

yeah, that applies to someone who ALREADY is captured -- not someone who voluntarily signs up for it. next bad analogy please.

[wisteria]

Not sure if K cares about the record or not. But at this pace, he'll pass it in about 4 years anyway. If K stays 8-9 more years from now on, he'll get the 1000 mark.

Oh well, one can always wish.

[elvis14]

You can add me to the list of people that are glad to see him go. It's nice that he helped coach K once upon a time but the differences between how coach K conducts himself and how Knight conducts himself tell the rest of that story.

[feldspar]

yeah, that applies to someone who ALREADY is captured -- not someone who voluntarily signs up for it. next bad analogy please.

You really think there are zero players who played for Knight who realized they got more than they bargained for and therefore felt "captured"?

It's interesting how black and white the world is to you.

[dukie8]

You really think there are zero players who played for Knight who realized they got more than they bargained for and therefore felt "captured"?

It's interesting how black and white the world is to you.

yes, you know exactly what you are in for when you sign up to play for him. it's nothing new and it is/was the same as what guys knew in the 70s. there's a reason why a lot of guys never would play for him. do you actually think that he hoodwinked a few guys each year to play for him thinking that everything would be nice and peaceful only to pull the rug out from under them once they showed up on campus?

[BlueintheFace]

You just don't win that many games without being a great teacher and a great leader. Coach K has said on many occasions (especially last year) that he still talks with Knight and leans on him for advice at times. He was a spectacular coach. It is a shame he couldn't finish at Indiana.

[feldspar]

do you actually think that he hoodwinked a few guys each year to play for him thinking that everything would be nice and peaceful only to pull the rug out from under them once they showed up on campus?

I dunno. Why don't you ask Neil Reed?

[rockymtn devil]

are aware that he went to the sweet 16 in 2005 with texas tech and from '91-'94 he went sweet 16, final 4 (lost to duke), elite 8 and sweet 16 with indiana? you may want to check your facts next tim ebefore ripping him.

he may have been a jerk and an egomaniac but he really got a ton out of not a lot of talent (how many nba players has he coached in the past 20 years), he had next to no off-the-court issues with players and he graduated his players. how many bcs coaches can claim the last 2? the fact that everyone knew he was a complete ballbuster and he still had guys lining up to play for him should give you some idea about what people who really matter thought of him.

Yes I am aware, and my facts and opinions were right. Nothing you posted disproves what I said.

Since the 1992 season, Bob Knight has coached every season but one (2000-2001). In that time his teams have only made it past the first weekend of the tournament three times (1993 and 1994 with Indiana; 2005 with Texas Tech; note: James Dickey took the Red Raiders to the Sweet 16 as a 3 seed in 1996). During that stretch, 6 Bob Knight coached teams bowed out in the 1st Round, while another 3 went down in the second. Two teams in that period failed to make the NCAA Tournament, and he lost to Sam Houston State twice.

In my opinion, that's irrelevancy.

[feldspar]

he may have been a verbally and physically obusive jerk and an egomaniac but he really got a ton out of not a lot of talent
edits attached

Interesting. So what you're saying is that it matters not what kind of a person Knight was and how he treated people, just that he won and made young men dribble and shoot a basketball with skill?

I'm glad I don't live in your world.

[dukie8]

edits attached

Interesting. So what you're saying is that it matters not what kind of a person Knight was and how he treated people, just that he won and made young men dribble and shoot a basketball with skill?

I'm glad I don't live in your world.

i'm glad you just made up a quote, attributed it to me and then also included a spelling mistake. classy and i believe a violation of the board's rules.

you also managed to omit all of the other positive things that knight did -- like graduate his players and not put up with any bs that most other coaches would. i find it very amusing that people, like you, who don't know him, find him so horrible, but of the 100s of guys who actually played for him, how many of them think that he is horrible? many, if not most, have extremely complementary and positive things to say about him. i'm not a big fan of his but i certainly like him a lot better than some of the slugs coaching today, like calipari or sutton. i'm glad that i don't live in your world either.

[dukie8]

Yes I am aware, and my facts and opinions were right. Nothing you posted disproves what I said.

Since the 1992 season, Bob Knight has coached every season but one (2000-2001). In that time his teams have only made it past the first weekend of the tournament three times (1993 and 1994 with Indiana; 2005 with Texas Tech; note: James Dickey took the Red Raiders to the Sweet 16 as a 3 seed in 1996). During that stretch, 6 Bob Knight coached teams bowed out in the 1st Round, while another 3 went down in the second. Two teams in that period failed to make the NCAA Tournament, and he lost to Sam Houston State twice.

In my opinion, that's irrelevancy.


Also, at the end of the day, Knight spent the last 16 seasons of his career coaching irrelevant teams. Indiana couldn't get passed the first weekend of the tournament in the waning years of his tenure there and Texas Tech has never lit the world on fire

if that is irrelevancy, then all but a handful of schools are completely irrelevant. i'm glad you are not in charge of the ncaa.

[feldspar]

i'm glad you just made up a quote, attributed it to me and then also included a spelling mistake. classy and i believe a violation of the board's rules.

you also managed to omit all of the other positive things that knight did -- like graduate his players and not put up with any bs that most other coaches would. i find it very amusing that people, like you, who don't know him, find him so horrible, but of the 100s of guys who actually played for him, how many of them think that he is horrible? many, if not most, have extremely complementary and positive things to say about him. i'm not a big fan of his but i certainly like him a lot better than some of the slugs coaching today, like calipari or sutton. i'm glad that i don't live in your world either.

As I've mentioned before, it's hard to feel insulted about misspelling a word from a guy who's too lazy to hit the shift key. Ever.

That being said, we're not talking about the retirement of Calipari or Sutton today. We're talking about Robert Montgomery Knight. We can discuss those other coaches on a separate thread if you'd like.

It has been well documented that Bobby Knight has verbally and physically abused several of his players. He is a bully to players, other coaches, officials and members of the media. But, he has been given a pass by people like you because he wins basketball games. I think that's shameful, and I'm not afraid to say so.

I do know that the abuse has been documented as fact. You know that as well. Neither you or I know the motivation of any of the players who have chosen to play for him, so while I can't really argue with you there, I don't really see that as a persuasive argument from your side of the debate.

[rockymtn devil]

if that is irrelevancy, then all but a handful of schools are completely irrelevant. i'm glad you are not in charge of the ncaa.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

Knight's teams did very little on the national scene after the 1992 Final Four. I've laid out the facts that you accused me of neglecting and, in my opinion, they prove that.

[dukie8]

As I've mentioned before, it's hard to feel insulted about misspelling a word from a guy who's too lazy to hit the shift key. Ever.

That being said, we're not talking about the retirement of Calipari or Sutton today. We're talking about Robert Montgomery Knight. We can discuss those other coaches on a separate thread if you'd like.

It has been well documented that Bobby Knight has verbally and physically abused several of his players. He is a bully to players, other coaches, officials and members of the media. But, he has been given a pass by people like you because he wins basketball games. I think that's shameful, and I'm not afraid to say so.

I do know that the abuse has been documented as fact. You know that as well. Neither you or I know the motivation of any of the players who have chosen to play for him, so while I can't really argue with you there, I don't really see that as a persuasive argument from your side of the debate.

for the record, i'm not a big fan of knight. i just think that it is a complete joke when people like yourself, who don't even know him, think that he is the second coming of the devil but nearly all of his former players having nothing but the most positive things to say about him. if he is so horrible, then why are his players so positive about him? where are all of the former players who think that he is a demon? you want to dismiss this fact because you don't know their motivations but that is critical. i think that they have a little more idea about what is going on than you do when you never have even met him. if there were a littany of former players complaining about him, then i would completely agree with you -- but there aren't so move on with your complaints.

it is COMPLETELY disingenuous and not in good faith to simply make up a quote and attribute it to someone else -- which is exactly what you did. pathetic. i did NOT write what you seem to want to quote me on.

[dukeENG2003]

It has been well documented that Bobby Knight has verbally and physically abused several of his players. He is a bully to players, other coaches, officials and members of the media. But, he has been given a pass by people like you because he wins basketball games. I think that's shameful, and I'm not afraid to say so.


Nobody would give him a pass on winning basketball games alone, and if they do, I agree its deplorable. We give him a pass because very few people who actually played for him have ANYTHING bad to say about him. We give him a pass because he ran a squeaky clean program. Knight stood up for principles that he believed in, that of a true student athlete and his progams' records (not W/L, their track record) show that. He even spoke out as such near the end of his career, even though he knew it was stuff that nobody else wanted to hear.

Seth Greenberg is a nice guy to the media and always supports his players, but runs a program of goons (and even supports their goonery and talks trash to opposing players). This, to me, is far worse.

Recognize that all you ever hear about are the bad things he does.

If he were really such a terrible person as you let on, I don't see how or why people would have gone to play for him, but they did, for 42 years (unless of course he used Jedi mind tricks on all his recruits).

And NO, he did NOT use Texas Tech to get the record. He ran a great program and brought an irrelevant program to relevancy. How many times did oyu ever see Texas Tech on TV before he was their coach? How many 20 win seasons did they have before him? He put them on the map, and has now set them up for future success even after he is gone.

[dukegirlinsc]

Didn't see this coming...

I like Bobby, a lot...especially knowing he had such an influence on Coach K's career and life.

Sad day.
Good luck patrick.

[mehmattski]

I thought I'd lighten things up with a post made by a former UConn beat writer (http://yankees.lhblogs.com/2008/02/05/remembering-coach-knight-expletives-deleted/) (who now writes on the Yankees in Connecticut), in his encounter with Bobby Knight during the Alaska Shootout. It's entitled "Remembering Knight (expletives deleted)."

On another note, a person who has a problem with the way Knight coached because of his foul language.... well, I would say that person hasn't spent any time around Coach K...

[weezie]

Knight's teams did very little on the national scene after the 1992 Final Four.


Yeah, well, I remember seeing Bob on camera wearing a Duke shirt in support of K, so, whatever else he is, at heart, he's loyal. I'm not so sure I'd go sweater shopping with him but if I get into a fight, I'd want him on my side.

[feldspar]

it is COMPLETELY disingenuous and not in good faith to simply make up a quote and attribute it to someone else -- which is exactly what you did. pathetic. i did NOT write what you seem to want to quote me on.

I edited your quote, and noted my edit. Get over it.

[ehdg]

Knight was a very good coach/teacher but like us all at times let his temper get the best of him. We've all made mistakes at times but luckily we haven't done it in the public eye as he has. Him leaving in the middle of the season is probably the right call if he just doesn't have it in him any more. Why would you want someone not giving their all to his team. Would we want Coach K coaching if he wasn't into it or didn't have the energy any more? Plus with the change in President their I believe he did this to give his son/Pat a better chance of staying on as their coach and showing the administration that he's qualified and the team will play well for him.

Good Luck Coach Knight in your future endeavors and thank you!!

[allenmurray]

never worried about PR, did a few stupid things.

He sure didn't worry about PR - he assaulted a police officer in Puerto Rico, and they finally gave up on trying to extradite him. Oh, you meant he didn't care about public relations . . .

[Mal]

I can't believe the ESPN poll rthomas noted doesn't include the Connie Chung "just sit back and enjoy it" interview, or any of the countless post-game media room tantrums Knight threw.

Personally, I'll always remember this (serious language alert): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZD1vkzYmyI
Edited version with just one of many hilarious sections (language alert still in effect): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPE_FUZFeLM

As golf is the game that reveals your true character, I submit Bobby Knight is awfully lucky he wound up in the world of college basketball - the man is so incapable of self control as to be unadaptable to 99% of the real world. He is a 9-year-old child. I respect his accomplishments, but will never respect the person.

[mpc]

My girlfriend just emailed me to see if I was sad b/c Knight retired and Hoosiers is one of my favorite movies. So for anyone who doesn't know (including me) I guess he will be remembered for that too.

But in any case I wonder if he will come back in a year or so when he gets bored after some time off, like Sutton or Majerus. Or maybe he's like Dean and when he's done, he's done.

[rthomas]

My girlfriend just emailed me to see if I was sad b/c Knight retired and Hoosiers is one of my favorite movies. So for anyone who doesn't know (including me) I guess he will be remembered for that too.

But in any case I wonder if he will come back in a year or so when he gets bored after some time off, like Sutton or Majerus. Or maybe he's like Dean and when he's done, he's done.

Was he in Hoosiers?

[throatybeard]

By and large, I've given up on moral high-horsery when it come to other people's coaches and players, unless something really absurd happens. I don't have the energy anymore. Memphis is winning with Calipari. Fine, whatever. Huggins is at WVU? Well, I ain't gonna stop rooting for WVU.

What I've always loved about RMK is his refusal to play by the rules of the press conference. You can tell a lot of coaches would like to hit the press back, but they don't. When someone asks an asinine question, RMK would respond honestly. I think that honesty is what I liked best about him. I also liked how he would give long, nuanced answers with a lot of context in an interview.

[Shammrog]

He sure didn't worry about PR - he assaulted a police officer in Puerto Rico, and they finally gave up on trying to extradite him. Oh, you meant he didn't care about public relations . . .

Well, DON'T count me as a defender of Bob Knight - I think he is a world-class bully and a jerk.

But, as I recall having read in a couple books (Feinstein/Coach K (who was there)/etc.), there was a lot more to the whole Puerto Rico incident -- i.e., it was a cop out to "get the Gringo"; the whole thing from the "incident" itself (in which Knight and the cop got into an argument over gym space, cop gets mad and goes on rant about "this is PUERTO RICO!, cop pokes Knight in eye, scuffle ensues (no punches) when officer tries to handcuff Knight, Coach K tells Knight to just let him put cuffs on so they can get this over with sooner, etc.) right up through the trial smacks of a Kangaroo-court style railroading.

Again - Knight has done plenty of things to be accurately called a jerk. But, the Puerto Rico matter probably shouldn't be among them.

[OldPhiKap]

moral high-horsery


Sorry, I couldn't get to the rest of the post after that. Nice phrase!

[BD80]

NO player was ever misled about what life would be like playing for Bobby. Neil Reed was a disgruntled player who had been voted off the team by his teammates and came forward with allegations in 2000 about an incident that supposedly occured in 1997. Bobby's other players have been uniformly gruntled (although some may have been plussed).

I greatly admire what Coach Knight stood for - teamwork and STUDENT athletes, and how he supported his players and was as generous a person as one will ever find. I do not admire his personal conduct and do not believe he should ever have represented this country. I also understand how Miles Brand felt he should not represent IU.

I would rank the coaches other than Coach K:

Iba
Knight
Smith
Allen
Newell
Wooden
Haskins
Bennett
Chaney

[alteran]

My girlfriend just emailed me to see if I was sad b/c Knight retired and Hoosiers is one of my favorite movies. So for anyone who doesn't know (including me) I guess he will be remembered for that too.


As far as I can tell, there's no connection between the movie OR story it's mostly based on and Bobby Knight except for the state of Indiana.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoosiers

[Classof06]

By and large, I've given up on moral high-horsery when it come to other people's coaches and players, unless something really absurd happens. I don't have the energy anymore. Memphis is winning with Calipari. Fine, whatever. Huggins is at WVU? Well, I ain't gonna stop rooting for WVU.

What I've always loved about RMK is his refusal to play by the rules of the press conference. You can tell a lot of coaches would like to hit the press back, but they don't. When someone asks an asinine question, RMK would respond honestly. I think that honesty is what I liked best about him. I also liked how he would give long, nuanced answers with a lot of context in an interview.

I agree with that as well. Personally, if I had a son that could play Division 1 basketball, I would love for him to play for Bobby Knight. Knight is not a saint, I think we all know that. But the guy is one of the best to ever grace his profession and the bottom line is that he loves his players and those around him. I also think it's hilarious that people use the media to judge Knight. I'd equate that to asking a UNC fan to tell you about Gerald Henderson; they go by what the public sees and run with it. Again, I'm not saying Knight was a saint, he had his demons just like everyone else (even you). It still doesn't outweigh the things he's done for the game, IMO.


"I made it hard and difficult for kids because they don't get anything out of it if it's easy. Kids have to get used to somebody telling them what to do because, when you leave college and go to work, there's always somebody telling you what to do. By learning that, they learn how to tell others what to do when they get into positions of leadership. I always laugh at people who get on me for getting on a kid. I wonder how many of them have ever gotten anything back from a kid saying, 'You were the biggest positive influence in my life.' That's why I never changed. It's interesting to me that I don't see much said about coaches who are not graduating their players or not teaching them how to play or not getting them ready to compete in life."

[allenmurray]

Well, DON'T count me as a defender of Bob Knight - I think he is a world-class bully and a jerk.

But, as I recall having read in a couple books (Feinstein/Coach K (who was there)/etc.), there was a lot more to the whole Puerto Rico incident -- i.e., it was a cop out to "get the Gringo"; the whole thing from the "incident" itself (in which Knight and the cop got into an argument over gym space, cop gets mad and goes on rant about "this is PUERTO RICO!, cop pokes Knight in eye, scuffle ensues (no punches) when officer tries to handcuff Knight, Coach K tells Knight to just let him put cuffs on so they can get this over with sooner, etc.) right up through the trial smacks of a Kangaroo-court style railroading.

Again - Knight has done plenty of things to be accurately called a jerk. But, the Puerto Rico matter probably shouldn't be among them.


First, I really don't know all that much about the incident in Puerto Rico. My post was supposed to be a play on the abbreviation PR - which fits for either Public Relations or Puerto Rico.

However, even given how little I know about the incident, given what we know about Knight's behavior over the years it isn't too hard for me to imagine that he might have just played a tiny little role in the whole thing.

I have family in Puerto Rico, and I have visited there quite often. I've been told by my family members (who are not Puerto-Rican) to be very careful and never get in an auto accident. "If you are not from the island it will be ruled your fault. The other person could be falling down drunk, run you over while you were getting out of your legally parked car, back over you 47 times, and it will still be ruled your fault". I am more careful driving there than anywhere else ever. I can easily imagine a Puerto Rican police officer starting out with a negative attitude towards Americans there for a basketball tournament.

On the other hand, I'm always amazed at the attitude American tourists take toward Puerto Ricans. Given that Puerto Rican's are US citizens the amount of abuse they take from their stateside counterparts is amazing. "Why don't you speak English like a real American?", etc., etc., Given Knight's propensity to bullying, and his ever-present attitude that he is above the rules, it is just as easy for me to imagine him as the instigator of the incident. Besides, he has done a number of other, quite similar, things, hasn't he?

[Acymetric]

First, I really don't know all that much about the incident in Puerto Rico. My post was supposed to be a play on the abbreviation PR - which fits for either Public Relations or Puerto Rico.

However, even given how little I know about the incident, given what we know about Knight's behavior over the years it isn't too hard for me to imagine that he might have just played a tiny little role in the whole thing.

I have family in Puerto Rico, and I have visited there quite often. I've been told by my family members (who are not Puerto-Rican) to be very careful and never get in an auto accident. "If you are not from the island it will be ruled your fault. The other person could be falling down drunk, run you over while you were getting out of your legally parked car, back over you 47 times, and it will still be ruled your fault". I am more careful driving there than anywhere else ever. I can easily imagine a Puerto Rican police officer starting out with a negative attitude towards Americans there for a basketball tournament.

On the other hand, I'm always amazed at the attitude American tourists take toward Puerto Ricans. Given that Puerto Rican's are US citizens the amount of abuse they take from their stateside counterparts is amazing. "Why don't you speak English like a real American?", etc., etc., Given Knight's propensity to bullying, and his ever-present attitude that he is above the rules, it is just as easy for me to imagine him as the instigator of the incident. Besides, he has done a number of other, quite similar, things, hasn't he?

What, pray tell, does your imagination have to do with what actually happened?

[allenmurray]

What, pray tell, does your imagination have to do with what actually happened?

Nothing, but as I said quite clearly, I don't know what happened. Or didn't you read that part. Try the sentence: First, I really don't know all that much about the incident in Puerto Rico.

I have a lot of experience in Puerto Rico - enough to be familiar with the animosity that sometimes exists between Puerto Ricans and stateside Americans. Given that animosity, it is not difficult to see how this could have been an overzealous police officer who started the incident. However, given Knight's history of similar behavior it is also not difficult to see how he could have been the instigator in this. That is what my post said.

Since I wasn't there, and didn't witness the incident, the phrase it isn't too hard for me to imagine is meant to indicate just that. I wasn't there. There really isn't any good definitive version of what did happen. So, I used my imagination to look at possible scenarios.

I know you love BK, but lighten up.

[Clipsfan]

NO player was ever misled about what life would be like playing for Bobby. Neil Reed was a disgruntled player who had been voted off the team by his teammates and came forward with allegations in 2000 about an incident that supposedly occured in 1997. Bobby's other players have been uniformly gruntled (although some may have been plussed).

I greatly admire what Coach Knight stood for - teamwork and STUDENT athletes, and how he supported his players and was as generous a person as one will ever find. I do not admire his personal conduct and do not believe he should ever have represented this country. I also understand how Miles Brand felt he should not represent IU.

I would rank the coaches other than Coach K:

Iba
Knight
Smith
Allen
Newell
Wooden
Haskins
Bennett
Chaney

I can't believe that you'd put Wooden so low...

[rthomas]

Nothing, but as I said quite clearly, I don't know what happened. Or didn't you read that part. Try the sentence: First, I really don't know all that much about the incident in Puerto Rico.

I have a lot of experience in Puerto Rico - enough to be familiar with the animosity that sometimes exists between Puerto Ricans and stateside Americans. Given that animosity, it is not difficult to see how this could have been an overzealous police officer who started the incident. However, given Knight's history of similar behavior it is also not difficult to see how he could have been the instigator in this. That is what my post said.

Since I wasn't there, and didn't witness the incident, the phrase it isn't too hard for me to imagine is meant to indicate just that. I wasn't there. There really isn't any good definitive version of what did happen. So, I used my imagination to look at possible scenarios.

I know you love BK, but lighten up.

Are you sure you weren't there?

[BD80]

I can't believe that you'd put Wooden so low...

I'm on record as believing that Wooden benefitted greatly from boosters who rather notoriously paid players at UCLA and from the early NCAA tournament format which basically gave UCLA a bye to the final four while East powerhouses such as Maryland or NCState wouldn't even make the tourney. He was a great coach, but I think 5 or 6 of the other coaches would have done as well in the same circumstances.

[dukie8]

how do all the knight naysayers feel about k crediting knight before anyone else for where he is today? he also specifically said what a great friend knight has been. i'll go with k's judge of character over anonymous internet posters who don't even know knight any day.

[rthomas]

how do all the knight naysayers feel about k crediting knight before anyone else for where he is today? he also specifically said what a great friend knight has been. i'll go with k's judge of character over anonymous internet posters who don't even know knight any day.

So I am one of the "Knight sucks, sucked and will suck" crowd. And that was long before Duke beat Indiana (I can't remember the exact date) and Knight refused to shake Krzyzewski's hand. I know that Coach K gives props to Knight (and he should) but that doesn't mean Knight is the reason Coach K is an awesome coach. I (personally) don't see alot of Knight in Krzyzewski.

[dukie8]

So I am one of the "Knight sucks, sucked and will suck" crowd. And that was long before Duke beat Indiana (I can't remember the exact date) and Knight refused to shake Krzyzewski's hand. I know that Coach K gives props to Knight (and he should) but that doesn't mean Knight is the reason Coach K is an awesome coach. I (personally) don't see alot of Knight in Krzyzewski.

you might not see it but k does. fortunately, his opinion matters a lot more than yours.

[cspan37421]

That was a nice tribute to RMK from K. Coach K has been quiet on RMK over the years, but now that Knight has stepped down, it may be easier to speak well of him. It may have also been an olive branch, and maybe with the pressures of coaching off, RMK can accept it. I think both coaches find it tough to be friends with an opposing coach whose team you are trying to destroy. It is hard for most people to turn that killer instinct on/off so quickly.

K may seem frosty with other ACC coaches but I think that's almost exclusively because they're in the same conference. I forget all his closest friends in the fraternity, but Boeheim of Syracuse is one. If Syracuse were in the ACC, that wouldn't be happening, IMO. Same with scheduling games against his teams coached by his proteges. It's hard, emotionally.

BTW, I think there's more of RMK in Coach K than many people think. K may have more public control of his emotions, true, but I think it was demonstrated by a sneaky Chronicle reporter back in my days that in the locker room, he's as fiery and as in command of a sailor's vocabulary as the best of them. Also, RMK cares deeply about his players' education and future success, and as a result, there's tremendous loyalty to both coaches from the players who have played for them. So yes, they are distinct, but there's more than a passing similarity.

[rthomas]

you might not see it but k does. fortunately, his opinion matters a lot more than yours.

Then why did you ASK for an opinion from a "Knight naysayer"? lol