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View Full Version : FSU vs UNC: Lawson hurt



RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 02:23 PM
More thuggish play from FSU during a loose ball tie up and Lawson got thrown to the deck. Beneficial for us but even I hate to see that happen to another player.

crote
02-03-2008, 02:25 PM
Looks to be a high ankle sprain.

freedevil
02-03-2008, 02:39 PM
I never want to see players hurt. Quick recovery to Lawson.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Wasn't Reid the one who threw a punch at Paulus?

wisteria
02-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Get well soon, Lawson.

I would hate it to win the game only to listen to the "Lawson did not play" excuses.

freedevil
02-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Get well soon, Lawson.

I would hate it to win the game only to listen to the "Lawson did not play" excuses.

You just snap back, "Marty didn't play either." :D

But seriously, get well soon Mr. Lawson.

Bob Green
02-03-2008, 02:47 PM
The ACC needs to address the rough play as it is becoming detrimental. I seriously despise seeing players hurt.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 02:51 PM
Watching this game and the several that DUke played this year, it doesn't look like the hand check foul is a point of emphasis this year.

DukeBlood
02-03-2008, 02:51 PM
I agree the ACC needs to do something about such physical play. I didnt believe FSU was as bad as V-Tech or Miami though.. IMO.

Is Lawson out for the Duke game?? Or is that to be said later on?

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 02:54 PM
I agree the ACC needs to do something about such physical play. I didnt believe FSU was as bad as V-Tech or Miami though.. IMO.

Is Lawson out for the Duke game?? Or is that to be said later on?

He's not coming back for this one and if its a serious high ankle sprain, I don't think they should risk him for the Duke game. It will probably be swollen and he'll have limited mobility for a good couple of weeks, I can't imagine he'll be 100% by Wednesday.

DukeUsul
02-03-2008, 02:54 PM
That's too bad about Lawson - I hate to see anyone get hurt, especially due to overly physical play.

This game raises another question. Should I want UNC to win? What will their dynamic be on Wednesday if FSU were to manage to pull off the upset?

ArkieDukie
02-03-2008, 02:55 PM
The ACC needs to address the rough play as it is becoming detrimental. I seriously despise seeing players hurt.


You took the words right out of my mouth. So far we've seen loads of cuts and bruises, and now a sprained ankle. How long before something worse happens?

Best wishes to Lawson for a speedy recovery.

loran16
02-03-2008, 02:59 PM
That's too bad about Lawson - I hate to see anyone get hurt, especially due to overly physical play.

This game raises another question. Should I want UNC to win? What will their dynamic be on Wednesday if FSU were to manage to pull off the upset?

Truthfully i dont want fsu to win cuz i hate goonery.

But that said , i doubt FSU winning would affect things. Both Duke and UNC play 150% in the rivalry matches anyhow, i doubt that a loss here would do anything. Especially as a loss here would probably be due to them overlooking them and looking ahead to our game.

dukie8
02-03-2008, 03:02 PM
The ACC needs to address the rough play as it is becoming detrimental. I seriously despise seeing players hurt.

is it me or does it seem that the acc has a lot more punks/thugs this year than normal? so far this year va tech (expected), nc state, fsu and miami all have take pretty cheap shots at our guys and, for the most part, played pretty rough. the one team that i thought played clean that i would have expected to have played like thugs is maryland. the league needs to start suspended some of these guys because someone at duke or unc is going to get hurt.

DukeBlood
02-03-2008, 03:16 PM
is it me or does it seem that the acc has a lot more punks/thugs this year than normal? so far this year va tech (expected), nc state, fsu and miami all have take pretty cheap shots at our guys and, for the most part, played pretty rough. the one team that i thought played clean that i would have expected to have played like thugs is maryland. the league needs to start suspended some of these guys because someone at duke or unc is going to get hurt.

Lawson got hurt already..

Paulus's nose is probably really sore IF not broken..

Nelson has bled..

The list keeps going... its just a matter of time before something a little more serious happens.

jjasper0729
02-03-2008, 03:21 PM
you forgot singler's hockey player face

DukeBlood
02-03-2008, 03:22 PM
you forgot singler's hockey player face

I did say the list keeps going :(. Did he come out for that? I remember he bled early on in the season but that was before the ACC started.

ugadevil
02-03-2008, 03:23 PM
Is Lance going to be at full strength against Carolina?

jjasper0729
02-03-2008, 03:24 PM
dukeblood. he came out for a period at florida state when he cracked his chin on the floor (the latest set of stitches i believe).

i konw you had said the list keeps going, i just thought that singler's stitches > demarcus's cut in quantity and severity overall.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 03:26 PM
According to InsideCarolina, we're dancing in the streets due to another players misfortune and physical pain, Mike Gminski was jumping up and down with glee while commentating the game. I have only gone to that place a few times, but I lose faith in humanity each time I do.

Bluedog
02-03-2008, 03:28 PM
According to InsideCarolina, we're dancing in the streets due to another players misfortune and physical pain, Mike Gminski was jumping up and down with glee while commentating the game. I have only gone to that place a few times, but I lose faith in humanity each time I do.

Ya, I noticed that as well. I was curious to see what they had to say. I even created a username to explain to them that that is definitely not the case and the vast majority of Duke fans do not wish injury upon anybody....but my name is pending approval, and it's probably not worth using logic with them...I certainly hope the injury is not serious and Lawson gets back healthy quickly.

DukeBlood
02-03-2008, 03:29 PM
dukeblood. he came out for a period at florida state when he cracked his chin on the floor (the latest set of stitches i believe).

i konw you had said the list keeps going, i just thought that singler's stitches > demarcus's cut in quantity and severity overall.

Good point. I couldnt remember if he came out or not(thats why I didnt put him up there). Thanks for your help.

How many other ACC teams are feeling this as well? Does anyone have a list of players being roughed up from ACC play?

wisteria
02-03-2008, 03:32 PM
they are saying that Duke has never been seriously bitten by injury bug. And when someone mentions Boozer and 2001, they said Boozer was not important at all anyway. According to the heels, since we've never been bothered by injuries, 3 NC is really pathetic.

I am guilty of reading anything from the rival's forums.



Ya, I noticed that as well. I was curious to see what they had to say. I even created a username to explain to them that that is definitely not the case and the vast majority of Duke fans do not wish injury upon anybody....but my name is pending approval, and it's probably not worth using logic with them...I certainly hope the injury is not serious and Lawson gets back healthy quickly.

Troublemaker
02-03-2008, 03:33 PM
Gawd, couldn't Lawson have gotten hurt against a team better than FSU? It's frustrating watching this game and realizing UNC probably should still beat the Seminoles.

I hope Lawson is back by Wednesday night. Besides the "no excuses" thing, the way these injuries tend to work is that the shorthanded team can ride crowd emotion and a "backs against the wall" mentality for one game to play even better than they would at full-strength.

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-03-2008, 03:33 PM
I did say the list keeps going :(. Did he come out for that? I remember he bled early on in the season but that was before the ACC started.
It's my recall that Kyle needed stitches to repair injuries to his face in three different games.

DankeShane
02-03-2008, 03:34 PM
For some reason I just want to blame Maryland and Gary Williams on this trend. Maybe that's unfair... but I just have felt ever since the days when J.J. was a freshman, Gary started writing the 'book' in the ACC that the way to beat Duke was to try and intimidate and rough up the players.

It looks like that philosophy has trickled down to some of the other wannabes here in the league.

diesel
02-03-2008, 03:35 PM
In the 44 years that I’ve been watching Blue Devil BB, I can’t remember seeing goonery like there is this year. Look at our team. Kyle has had 20 stitches to this point. When I saw Demarcus get fixed yesterday I noticed he also had previous damage in the region of the right ear. And I thought Greg had a broken nose yesterday.

Someone reported that a cut specialist was attending to one of the above. I don’t like the boxing analogy at all.

How could the ACC stand by after ESPN recorded the antics of Washington for all to see? What about the brushback of Greg that opened yesterday’s Miami game and was also recorded? I agree that the ACC should step in before someone gets seriously hurt. Some warnings to specific individuals and whole teams are called for.

jjasper0729
02-03-2008, 03:35 PM
singler had wisconsin and florida state... i can't remember the game with the cut under his eye that needed stitches. it was at home and i WANT to say virginia, but don't quote me on that one. wisconsin was the side of his head and florida state (at fsu) was his chin

DukeBlood
02-03-2008, 03:36 PM
With that being said IF Lawson is not back or not 100%(how could he be?) Then Duke needs to take advantage of him being out. Since Lawson has left the game UNC has had 11 TO's in less then 20 minutes!

I know that sounds bad, and hopefully you all understand what im saying. I do wish he is back at 100% for the Duke game. If he isn't though, then so be it. Duke will have to force pressure and take advantage of it.. Man this must sound really bad

Troublemaker
02-03-2008, 03:37 PM
they are saying that Duke has never been seriously bitten by injury bug. And when someone mentions Boozer and 2001, they said Boozer was not important at all anyway. According to the heels, since we've never been bothered by injuries, 3 NC is really pathetic.

I am guilty of reading anything from the rival's forums.

I'd recommend not bringing their trash over here. It's stupid in the first place since Duke gets injured all the time. Oh, no, a sprained ankle :rolleyes: . Duke has foot and ankle injuries out the wazoo. If Lawson were to BREAK his ankle like Nelson did, I'd feel sorry for him. As is, I'm just peeved right now that FSU sucks.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 03:41 PM
they are saying that Duke has never been seriously bitten by injury bug. And when someone mentions Boozer and 2001, they said Boozer was not important at all anyway. According to the heels, since we've never been bothered by injuries, 3 NC is really pathetic.

I am guilty of reading anything from the rival's forums.

Boozer wasn't important to the 2001 team?!?!?!?!?! Jebus, this is a prime example of revisionist history, the other one being their colorful interpretation of the Hansbrough/Henderson incident last year. Oliver Stone would be proud.
Did you know that K ordered the attack during the time out? Sure he did, despite the fact that Duke was the lowest scoring team in the league and sending out the guy averaging in double figures the previous 6 games to goon another player and risk suspensions defies ALL LOGIC!. Or that Hendo hit him with an elbow, fist, forearm, karate kick, steel chair, rifle stock. Did you know there was a second Henderson on the grassy knoll?

wumhenry
02-03-2008, 03:42 PM
Wasn't Reid the one who threw a punch at Paulus?
Yep. But Swan is the one who busted him in the mouth.

Troublemaker
02-03-2008, 03:43 PM
Boozer wasn't important to the 2001 team?!?!?!?!?! Jebus, this is a prime example of revisionist history, the other one being their colorful interpretation of the Hansbrough/Henderson incident last year. Oliver Stone would be proud.
Did you know that K ordered the attack during the time out? Sure he did, despite the fact that Duke was the lowest scoring team in the league and sending out the guy averaging in double figures the previous 6 games to goon another player and risk suspensions defies ALL LOGIC!. Or that Hendo hit him with an elbow, fist, forearm, karate kick, steel chair, rifle stock. Did you know there was a second Henderson on the grassy knoll?

Again, I would strongly suggest ignoring them instead of bringing their stupidity here and debating/responding to it.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 03:46 PM
I understand that allegiances and influence your interpretation of events, but it strangely fascinates that people will continue to believe whatever worldview or interpretation they feel strongest in even when the facts completely contradict that belief. Yay cognitive dissonance!

jimsumner
02-03-2008, 03:48 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

RelativeWays
02-03-2008, 03:49 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

Its for that last minute Superbowl run

jjasper0729
02-03-2008, 03:50 PM
jim,

i've seen that thing so many times... i totally don't want one.

Chitowndevil
02-03-2008, 03:56 PM
I genuinely hope the injury to Lawson isn't serious. He's a fun player to watch, and with Greg and Nolan playing well of late I was really looking forward to that matchup.

I also agree the ACC needs to do something to rein in physical play. I just realized that Maryland, on the road, was arguably the cleanest conference game we've played this season... that IMO really tells you something about the tactics VT, Miami, and FSU are using.

Uncle Drew
02-03-2008, 04:01 PM
I guess it's due to watching Duke play all the time and their style of offense. And when Duke plays teams like FSU (and other ACC schools) they take them out of their offense so much when they play a UNC it looks like a different team. But sitting here watching FSU vs You Inn See it almost looks like they are playing a game other than basketball. Both these schools styles is so contrasting to how Duke plays. I have to catch myself when a player for either team gets the ball outside the 3 line from wondering, why isn't he taking a shot! Watching Duke makes you forget not every school has 8 players who can bust a three when needed.

Troublemaker
02-03-2008, 04:02 PM
FSU is terrible. Their crowd, likewise.

Get well soon, Lawson. Don't let a little ankle sprain keep you out, you wuss.

watzone
02-03-2008, 04:04 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

So, you want more annoying Pizza Hut? BTW, they are owned by the same group as KFC.

jjasper0729
02-03-2008, 04:06 PM
as is taco bell... ay caramba

Troublemaker
02-03-2008, 04:07 PM
OT, baby!!!

(Probably just another 5 minutes of frustration watching FSU, though).

Lavabe
02-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

The spice is on the inside, apparently. What a neat idea!:rolleyes:

No excuses ... Zoubs is injured, and we keep playing. If Lawson plays, fine. If he doesn't play, fine ... we'll get him in Durham.

Beat the snot out of them!


FSU /UNC OT!!!


9F,
Lavabe

P.S. The girl is STILL crying!

DavidBenAkiva
02-03-2008, 04:08 PM
11 seconds to go...

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

fisheyes
02-03-2008, 04:08 PM
good ol' Roy...forgetting to call a TO!

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-03-2008, 04:09 PM
Somebody should bring him a dime. He really needs a Coke! Bless his heart.:D
Love, Ima

Lavabe
02-03-2008, 04:09 PM
... that the FITSter needs to make a visit to Florida.

This could be fun.

GO 'noles!!!
Cheers,
Lavabe

DavidBenAkiva
02-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Not that UNC is a great defensive team - that's been their perceived downfall this year - but the guys getting all the points for FSU (and for Maryland when they beat UNC) were guards. That's good news for us! That's where we have an advantage. I haven't been watching UNC this year, but who can stop dribble penetration on their team? Marcus Ginyard?

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

Ben63
02-03-2008, 04:10 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

Isn't that the same thing Popeye's had been doing for years now, just not in wing form??

As for the game, today fits the mold of that signature (i forget who's, im sorry) I have 2 favorite teams, Duke and whoever is playing Carolina.

GO FSU!!!!!!!!!!!

watzone
02-03-2008, 04:15 PM
What a soft foul by Julie Vaughn. That's why Duke quit recruiting him.

watzone
02-03-2008, 04:24 PM
Well, its time for a crunchy cheesey crust pizza. Unlock the crunch and the BIG cheese flavor! (Insert highly annoying music jingle). Then I am going to kick a crunch time field goal and head to KFC and bring home the party with a 20 piece bucket. MMMMM. Well, they had more at crunch time than did FSU'):D

click here JIM! (http://www.kfc.com/)

devildeac
02-03-2008, 04:29 PM
More thuggish play from FSU during a loose ball tie up and Lawson got thrown to the deck. Beneficial for us but even I hate to see that happen to another player.

Now, perhaps, some other folks will realize their thuggish play is for real and not just the 'spoiled' Duke whiners and complainers. (Hope this sounds right over the internet. I can't quite figure out how to put a tone of voice in my post. It would/could certainly sound better or be explained better in person).

sandinmyshoes
02-03-2008, 04:47 PM
Without Lawson, or Frasor, UNC is not that bad in some aspects of the game, but they are REALLY bad at end of the shot clock plays without 'em. That should be a big advantage for us if Lawson is not 100%, and I don't see how he could be.

But whereas I thought we would have a good game on Wednesday, I thought all the pressure was on them to keep pace and defend their home turf. But now, as a fan, I am afraid of this game. If they manage to beat us I'll have to hear from all my UNC friends how they did it without being full strength, blah, blah, blah. And if we win, I'll still have in the back of my mind when the rematch comes that we did it when they weren't a full strength.

There are always so many subplots when we play UNC.

Ignatius07
02-03-2008, 05:00 PM
Not that UNC is a great defensive team - that's been their perceived downfall this year - but the guys getting all the points for FSU (and for Maryland when they beat UNC) were guards. That's good news for us! That's where we have an advantage. I haven't been watching UNC this year, but who can stop dribble penetration on their team? Marcus Ginyard?

I noticed the same exact thing. UNC could not stop FSU's dribble penetration for the life of them. Lawson or no Lawson, I feel better about our chances. I really hope Coach K drives the point home to Nolan that he has a great opportunity to make a big difference as a 3rd/4th driving threat.

flash
02-03-2008, 05:08 PM
That would be Tony Douglas. He shot FSU out of any chance to win. He was blazing away while shooting blanks the whole game.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
02-03-2008, 05:11 PM
Didn't see the game, but am not a bit surprised that FSU was involved in something like this. I wish Lawson well and hope his injury is minor and fast-healing.

hondoheel
02-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Ya, I noticed that as well. I was curious to see what they had to say. I even created a username to explain to them that that is definitely not the case and the vast majority of Duke fans do not wish injury upon anybody....but my name is pending approval, and it's probably not worth using logic with them...I certainly hope the injury is not serious and Lawson gets back healthy quickly.

They were referencing the Devils Den, which I can't read. But seeing as how their site owner made crack baby jokes about Juan Dixon, it's not really a stretch to think they're celebrating Lawson getting hurt.

365Duke
02-03-2008, 05:16 PM
It's my recall that Kyle needed stitches to repair injuries to his face in three different games.




yes, 28 total stitches already this year (for kyle). that could be a record:eek:

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-03-2008, 05:24 PM
This is the first year I can remember thinking that the team medical staff might need to include a top flight plastic surgeon. Maybe a plastic surgeon will be added to the Sports Medicine staff. Dr. Moorman is generally up on whatever is an important trend.

sagegrouse
02-03-2008, 05:24 PM
(a) Lawson got injured.

(b) Six for thirty-two. (19%) Yep. That was the 3-pt. stat for Fla. State.

sagegrouse

Bluedog
02-03-2008, 05:43 PM
They were referencing the Devils Den, which I can't read. But seeing as how their site owner made crack baby jokes about Juan Dixon, it's not really a stretch to think they're celebrating Lawson getting hurt.

Perhaps....isn't this the thread?
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=167&F=1386#s=167&f=1386&t=1967974
Seems relatively tame to me....nobody seems happy that Lawson is hurt, except for maybe one outlier....most people are saying that they hope he gets better. Anyways, doesn't really matter, I guess.

blueprofessor
02-03-2008, 05:44 PM
They were referencing the Devils Den, which I can't read. But seeing as how their site owner made crack baby jokes about Juan Dixon, it's not really a stretch to think they're celebrating Lawson getting hurt.

No ,sir! If a person did in fact write x, that does not prove that he wrote y.
I was at the FSU-UNC game today sitting on the first row behind the scorer's table, and did not see the dirty play referenced in prior posts.
Hans Travel was absolutely awesome on the boards ( I believe he had 17,almost matching the rest of the UNC team).Tall defenders really bothered him today.FSU's coach said they practiced against Hans' antics .They did well.He did get the benefit on 2 or 3 foul calls.Hans is a cool customer---very poised in a loud venue before obnoxious fans who jeered every (not just the bad calls) call against FSU.
FSU could easily have won as the Noles missed many easy shots in the paint and had an uncalled apparent foul on a three to tie the game in OT.
UNC had ,IIRC, 18 more offensive rebounds.One in regulation led to a three after the ball was lost by the FSU defender.That was a critical play in regulation,as each team was desperate to achieve some separation in the last 6 minutes.
UNC shot 42% ,so the disparity in offensive rebounds was huge.
Best regards--Professor of ethics:D

blueprofessor
02-03-2008, 06:06 PM
Hans actually had 21 rebounds, not the 17 I thought.UNC led in rebounds 54 to 26. Hans had 21 'bounds and 33 were credited to other (including "team")UNC players.
Best regards--Professor of ethics.
Beat UNC!:D

cbfx3
02-03-2008, 09:04 PM
As for commercials.. who can forget the Classic..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qeWbg4mVW8

TheDuke11
02-03-2008, 10:46 PM
ok, now this has gone far enough. I know "the owner" of TDD and he has NEVER said anything derogatory about any player on any other team as mentioned in a post above. I cant speak for the posters, but the mods and the administrator over there do not allow that sort of thing, nor do they post that sort of thing. Say what you will about TDD, but the admin and the mods are all class.

Section 8
02-03-2008, 10:57 PM
Did you know there was a second Henderson on the grassy knoll?

Hmmmm. Yes, I've known about the second Henderson for some time. The question is, how did you know? What level clearance do you have?

freedevil
02-03-2008, 11:19 PM
They were referencing the Devils Den, which I can't read. But seeing as how their site owner made crack baby jokes about Juan Dixon, it's not really a stretch to think they're celebrating Lawson getting hurt.

Can we get rid of this poster please? He's no better than the owner of the Devile's Den.

hondoheel
02-03-2008, 11:42 PM
ok, now this has gone far enough. I know "the owner" of TDD and he has NEVER said anything derogatory about any player on any other team as mentioned in a post above. I cant speak for the posters, but the mods and the administrator over there do not allow that sort of thing, nor do they post that sort of thing. Say what you will about TDD, but the admin and the mods are all class.

OK, I'm talking about JohnTDD. He is or was an admin and I believe the top one. If you're saying he never posted that, then I will call you a liar to your face. If I'm incorrect that he was or is an admin, then my apologies. I read his post, and have ZERO doubt about my recollection of having read it.

hondoheel
02-03-2008, 11:49 PM
Can we get rid of this poster please? He's no better than the owner of the Devile's Den.


Believe me, you sure add nothing of value to IC.

Bluedog
02-03-2008, 11:54 PM
Can we get rid of this poster please? He's no better than the owner of the Devile's Den.

I'll actually come to the defense of HondoHeel on this one. He is actually quite respectful (albeit misguided in his allegiance) and I'd say the DBR community benefits from having outside perspectives, even if it is from Tar Hole fans. I enjoy most of his posts and personally don't find them ever offensive (although being a UNC is in itself kind of offensive). One quick look at IC and you can see this isn't a common trait....so I gotta give HondoHeel some credit especially when he continues to post on a site where he is an extreme minority.

hondoheel
02-04-2008, 12:04 AM
Well before I'm banned, let me say thanks Bluedog. And, this site is nothing like the DevilsDen.

CatfiveCane
02-04-2008, 12:18 AM
More thuggish play from FSU during a loose ball tie up and Lawson got thrown to the deck. Beneficial for us but even I hate to see that happen to another player.

Did you even watch the play? I would say it was just as much fault as Lawson's than the FSU player. Both were going for the ball. No more than what Wojo used to do.

JStuart
02-04-2008, 12:25 AM
Jim, I didn't see that coming...

shadowfax336
02-04-2008, 12:37 AM
I've also enjoyed Hondoheel's contributions

Uncle Drew
02-04-2008, 12:42 AM
Blah, blah, yak, yak.....has anyone heard how bad Lawson's ankle is yet? Will they be doing an MRI / x-rays? When someone actually hears something please post here so we'll all know and won't have to go to any site but DBR to find out!

hondoheel
02-04-2008, 12:45 AM
At earliest, decision to be made after practice Tuesday, but most likely a game time decision.

Uncle Drew
02-04-2008, 12:53 AM
At earliest, decision to be made after practice Tuesday, but most likely a game time decision.


Thank you very much hondo. Sweet Jesus am I saying thank you to a UNC fan for a contribution on DBR???!! I guess since that ankle will affect the game and game plans for both teams all fans concerned want to hear the latest. As stated in another post I never bet on Duke. But sure as I'd bet on UNC three days ago THIS is something that would happen. :rolleyes:

JBDuke
02-04-2008, 01:09 AM
Can we get rid of this poster please? He's no better than the owner of the Devile's Den.

I watch Hondoheel fairly closely, and have once or twice warned him about getting a little chippy. By and large, however, his posts are reasonable, and valued contributions to this board. And he has done nothing in this thread to merit being cited, much less being banned.

DBR has a long-held tradition of welcoming posters that owe allegiance to other schools, including Carolina, as long as they behave themselves. Hondoheel and Wheat and others bring different perspectives on things that often provide valued insight.

As for what may or may not have been said on TDD, I can't say either way. I do not spend time on that site. Furthermore, I don't really care. But I do NOT think we need to rehash it here.

FWIW, I'm proud that DBR posters have been mature enough that we haven't had to delete any posts regarding the Lawson injury. I, too, wish him a speedy recovery.

dukemomLA
02-04-2008, 02:01 AM
I agree that the 'rough and tumble' play is getting out of control. Not just in the ACC, but in all leagues. Basketball -- at the college level -- is NOT a contact sport! Even in the NBA, I'm getting weary of checks and hard unneccessary fouls. (Ummmm, that's why I stopped watching Hockey years ago, except for an occasional game).

I love this game! More than any other. But often I feel the same way about NcAA football.......and the NFL. If someone, ANYONE looks like they are intentionally trying to injure another player -- give them the HOOK!!

Save all this crappy drama for fake wrestling.

Uncle Drew
02-04-2008, 04:30 AM
I agree that the 'rough and tumble' play is getting out of control. Not just in the ACC, but in all leagues. Basketball -- at the college level -- is NOT a contact sport! Even in the NBA, I'm getting weary of checks and hard unneccessary fouls. (Ummmm, that's why I stopped watching Hockey years ago, except for an occasional game).

I love this game! More than any other. But often I feel the same way about NcAA football.......and the NFL. If someone, ANYONE looks like they are intentionally trying to injure another player -- give them the HOOK!!

Save all this crappy drama for fake wrestling.


Seattle Irish said in another post he views You Inn See as more of a finesse team than pysical, and despite having a bull in a china shop at center he may be bloody right. Due to a lack of information here last night about Lawson I went over to IC to see if they had any updates. It was REALLY intresting to see their complaints about rough play in the FSU game. We Duke fans have been complaining for years now teams try to punk Duke and get away with a mugging when they play Duke. Of course the rest of the ACC thinks that is perfectly okay, because hey; it's Duke they deserve it right? If you read some of the VT pages after our game with them, they saw nothing bad about how Washington played and even went so far as to say he was getting a bad rap because the foe was Duke. I agree with LA, I am tired of ACC games against any two foes becoming no blood no foul contests. But when the fans for FSU, VT, MD etc. can't even see and admit how dirty their own players are and play I wouldn't expect it to stop any time soon. And truth be told if anyone gets suspended because a Carowina player got hurt after all the stitches and bruises Duke has endured this year it will speak volumes about favoritism and bias in the ACC.

gw67
02-04-2008, 08:10 AM
Latta - I don't know where you are coming from re your comment that fans from Maryland won't even admit how dirty their players are. I'll agree that a portion of Maryland fans are idiots and probably would be happy if their players roughed up Duke and UNC players but I've watched the Terps play 15-16 times this year and none of their players have exhibited any dirty play. Gist, Hayes, Milbourne, Bowie, Tucker, Walker and Dupree are finesse guys who aren't even chippy much less dirty. Osby plays hard and is very physical but certainly not dirty. Vasquez is chippy and mouthy but no more so than Paulus. You may hate the Heels and Terps but neither team is dirty. In fact, Hansbrough puts up with more hard fouls and elbows than any player in the ACC and Singler has probably delivered more elbows than any player on either team.

gw67

RelativeWays
02-04-2008, 08:32 AM
Did you even watch the play? I would say it was just as much fault as Lawson's than the FSU player. Both were going for the ball. No more than what Wojo used to do.

Wojo threw other players to the ground during loose ball tie ups? You must have a different memory of Steve than I do. Maybe the play wasn't intentional but given Reids behavior during the rest of the game and our game as well, I'm not giving him the benefit of the doubt.

cspan37421
02-04-2008, 08:34 AM
I don't think it is necessary to equate playing the game in a non-dirty way with finesse. You can have tough defense and even some physical play without being cheap-shot artists. Basically, the difference is between unintentional and intentional fouls. Taking a swing at someone, elbowing someone in the ribs and then pretending to scratch your ear, etc, those are all intentional. A team that doesn't do that crap is not necessarily a finesse team, IMO.

Matches
02-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

Those wings are pretty good, though.

By contrast, there were about 100 commercials for Ruby Tuesday crabcakes during the NCSU game. I'm sad to say, after a trip over there on Friday, that they are NOT what the ad makes them out to be.

We'll see about Lawson. Even if he doesn't play Wednesday (and I'm guessing he won't), you know how teams tend to rally for one game when someone gets hurt.

dukeENG2003
02-04-2008, 08:44 AM
I agree about the ACC needing to clean up dirty play, but the play on which the injury occured was NOT dirty at all. Both players had their hands on the ball, and were trying to rip it away from each other. The refs probably should have blown the whistle sooner (held ball, it was pretty clear), but you can't fault Reid for trying to rip the ball out of a tiny little point guards hands. I'd need to watch it again, but I don't even believe the whistle had blown when Lawson went down.

That said, there are PLENTY of other times you could criticize Reid for dirty play in the game (he was getting chippy with Hanblahblah all game), I just don't think this particular play was a problem.

We're gonna eat Quentin Thomas ALIVE!

whereinthehellami
02-04-2008, 08:44 AM
They were referencing the Devils Den, which I can't read. But seeing as how their site owner made crack baby jokes about Juan Dixon, it's not really a stretch to think they're celebrating Lawson getting hurt.

If you're going to post an accusation like that, you need to back it up with a link or something. If not you're really just stirring the pot on a Duke board. Which is worse IC or the TDD, and which should be accorded the benefit of the doubht? A UNC site that trashes Duke or a Duke site? IC is a minor evolutionary step up from Dave Chens's chat and flame from yesteryear. Again check out Hondoheel's posting history. He is always on the verge of trolling.

gw67
02-04-2008, 08:52 AM
cspan - I agree with your explanation re finesse and non-dirty. Except in the case of Hayes, the Terps that I listed are not finesse players (I used the senile part of my brain to pull up that word.) The Terps I listed, are quiet, non-physical types who have shown no inclination to do intentional, cheap shots.

gw67

wilko
02-04-2008, 09:13 AM
I hope Lawson isnt seriously hurt. Thats unfortunate.

A friend of mine was on the ledge and I talked him back to saftey. He was actually worried that UNC would have excuses if we won without Lawson in the lineup. I told him that they will have excuses either way. Its a wash.

I just want a win, the circumstances are largely irrelevant to me. I'd be perfectly fine if UNC found a way to forfit.

If there is a silver lining here for us, is it just might be that this will help diffuse some of that "Payback" mentality surrounding G. It totally has taken the focus off of that so far. The entire tone has seemingly changed.

And maybe just maybe, now that someone has suffered an injury at a critical time for a critical game; the ACC will make a point to clean up the ruff play. I sure hope Roy is chewing someones tail at the league office and rightfully so!

devildeac
02-04-2008, 09:18 AM
Latta - I don't know where you are coming from re your comment that fans from Maryland won't even admit how dirty their players are. I'll agree that a portion of Maryland fans are idiots and probably would be happy if their players roughed up Duke and UNC players but I've watched the Terps play 15-16 times this year and none of their players have exhibited any dirty play. Gist, Hayes, Milbourne, Bowie, Tucker, Walker and Dupree are finesse guys who aren't even chippy much less dirty. Osby plays hard and is very physical but certainly not dirty. Vasquez is chippy and mouthy but no more so than Paulus. You may hate the Heels and Terps but neither team is dirty. In fact, Hansbrough puts up with more hard fouls and elbows than any player in the ACC and Singler has probably delivered more elbows than any player on either team.

gw67

I'll agree with gw here. As little respect as I have for the behavior of md fans in general(and MANY particulars), and the gary-noia that exudes from college park, I think we have found very few(if any) instances over the last few years where we have called the terps a group of dirty players. Now gt, vt, f$u and bc on the other hand(or elbow)...

johnb
02-04-2008, 09:21 AM
lots of bile on this thread....

dukeENG2003
02-04-2008, 10:05 AM
And maybe just maybe, now that someone has suffered an injury at a critical time for a critical game; the ACC will make a point to clean up the ruff play. I sure hope Roy is chewing someones tail at the league office and rightfully so!

What exactly did Reid do (ON THIS PLAY) that was dirty? Seemed to me like he ripped the ball away from a smaller man, before the whistle blew.

rsvman
02-04-2008, 10:12 AM
Lawson's injury is nothing but bad news for us.

If we win the game, it will be because they were not at full strength. If we lose the game, it will be like rubbing salt in the wound.

FWIW, I always want our opponents to be at full strength when we play them, and may the best team win.

I hope Lawson makes a rapid recovery and is completely well in time for the rematch. If we lose, we lose; but I'd rather play 'em "straight up," as they say.

freedevil
02-04-2008, 10:15 AM
Lawson's injury is nothing but bad news for us.

If we win the game, it will be because they were not at full strength. If we lose the game, it will be like rubbing salt in the wound.

FWIW, I always want our opponents to be at full strength when we play them, and may the best team win.

I hope Lawson makes a rapid recovery and is completely well in time for the rematch. If we lose, we lose; but I'd rather play 'em "straight up," as they say.

Correct. It's a lose-lose situation for Duke.

dukeENG2003
02-04-2008, 10:18 AM
Correct. It's a lose-lose situation for Duke.

Oh come on guys, I understand good sportsmanship and all, but its a win for Duke if Lawson doesn't play. Excuses aside, if we beat them (and you'd be a fool to say that we don't have a better chance at beating them without him), thats a two game lead in the ACC, and the inside track for the Raleigh/Charlotte path to the NCAA's. Sure you don't want to WISH for an injury, but that doesn't change the fact that this benefits us a great deal, especially considering that the rematch game (when they will likely be at full strength) is in "OUR HOUSE".

freedevil
02-04-2008, 10:20 AM
Believe me, you sure add nothing of value to IC.

That sounds like a compliment if I've ever heard one.

alteran
02-04-2008, 10:22 AM
At earliest, decision to be made after practice Tuesday, but most likely a game time decision.

Hmmm-- after watching so many UNC players suffer what were portrayed as near-mortal wounds ;) only to enter the game heroically and show little to no signs of injury, I'm going to bet we see him take part in the game, and play at near 100%.

MulletMan
02-04-2008, 10:31 AM
I have no knowledge of anything, no inside sources, no information not available to the general public, but I do know one thing:

Lawson will play on Wednesday, and Duke will prepare for that. This is Duke-UNC, people. These guys live for this game. There's no way he's not in the game.

I for one, hope that's the case anyway. This is the best rivalry in sports, and I'd like to see both teams at thier best for each of the match ups this season. So Ty, as much as I hate your guts, get well and let's lace 'em up for Wednesday.

GTHCGTH!

Indoor66
02-04-2008, 10:32 AM
I have no knowledge of anything, no inside sources, no information not available to the general public, but I do know one thing:

Lawson will play on Wednesday, and Duke will prepare for that. This is Duke-UNC, people. These guys live for this game. There's no way he's not in the game.

I for one, hope that's the case anyway. This is the best rivalry in sports, and I'd like to see both teams at thier best for each of the match ups this season. So Ty, as much as I hate your guts, get well and let's lace 'em up for Wednesday.

GTHCGTH!

I agree. There may be scuff marks on the Dean Dome floor from the Crutch, but he will play.

BlueDevilJay
02-04-2008, 10:33 AM
Correct. It's a lose-lose situation for Duke.

How this is a 'lose-lose' for Duke I just flat out don't get. Its a freakin ANKLE SPRAIN for Chrissakes, not like he lost a close relative, or anything even remotely close. If we win, we win and have a 2 game ACC lead. Injuries happen and you just have to play with whats there. If Lawson doesn't play and we win, I could care less, again you play with what you have. A legit NC contender cannot be reliant on one player so much that if he goes down, so does your entire team. We have lost Marty and Zoubs for the time being (Im not putting them on the level of Lawson, for the record) but they both played decent roles in eating up some minutes, fouls, etc.

NOW, had something tragic happened to Ty, then yeah, should we win, the whole "rubbing it in" factor would be toned down IMO, but again, its a freakin ankle sprain, not a death in the family.

That being said, I DO hope he recovers quickly as I'd like for him to play Wednesday night. I want our best vs their best to gauge where we are right now as a team, and get a realistic idea of our NC chances. I am also the type who doesn't like seeing anyone hurt, no matter the team (although I wouldn't mind seeing thug Washington from VT take one to the chops, but I digress) and I truly do hope Lawson is back on the court quickly, as even though I LOATHE the idea of UNC winning anything, I DO respect them as our rival, and an esteemed team and opponent (I hold them with the respect that only a TRUE rival should be, not like the imaginary rivals we seem to have many of)

There, thats just my .02 worth.

Indoor66
02-04-2008, 10:38 AM
How this is a 'lose-lose' for Duke I just flat out don't get. Its a freakin ANKLE SPRAIN for Chrissakes, not like he lost a close relative, or anything even remotely close. If we win, we win and have a 2 game ACC lead. Injuries happen and you just have to play with whats there. If Lawson doesn't play and we win, I could care less, again you play with what you have. A legit NC contender cannot be reliant on one player so much that if he goes down, so does your entire team. We have lost Marty and Zoubs for the time being (Im not putting them on the level of Lawson, for the record) but they both played decent roles in eating up some minutes, fouls, etc.

NOW, had something tragic happened to Ty, then yeah, should we win, the whole "rubbing it in" factor would be toned down IMO, but again, its a freakin ankle sprain, not a death in the family.

That being said, I DO hope he recovers quickly as I'd like for him to play Wednesday night. I want our best vs their best to gauge where we are right now as a team, and get a realistic idea of our NC chances. I am also the type who doesn't like seeing anyone hurt, no matter the team (although I wouldn't mind seeing thug Washington from VT take one to the chops, but I digress) and I truly do hope Lawson is back on the court quickly, as even though I LOATHE the idea of UNC winning anything, I DO respect them as our rival, and an esteemed team and opponent (I hold them with the respect that only a TRUE rival should be, not like the imaginary rivals we seem to have many of)

There, thats just my .02 worth.

Well said and appropriate perspective. To Hell with those living at the Dump on the Hump.

dukelifer
02-04-2008, 10:46 AM
Lawson's injury is nothing but bad news for us.

If we win the game, it will be because they were not at full strength. If we lose the game, it will be like rubbing salt in the wound.

FWIW, I always want our opponents to be at full strength when we play them, and may the best team win.

I hope Lawson makes a rapid recovery and is completely well in time for the rematch. If we lose, we lose; but I'd rather play 'em "straight up," as they say.

I agree with others that say Lawson will play. They were icing the top of his foot which I suspect means he will be sore but not out. As for full strength- do you think UNC counted the wins against Duke last year when Paulus played with a broken foot? I am sure they did. I am sure he was plenty sore as well. There are no excuses here. They have a senior point backup who helped them win on Sunday and a team full of excellent players. Also, this win or loss is not the season for either team. This is always a hard fought, emotional game- and a good test of what it will be like in the big dance. The big question for Duke is how they will respond to that emotion. Nelson and Paulus will need to be steady and focused- and lead the young guys- for Duke to win.

freedevil
02-04-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm sure every poster is aware of this, but for Karma's sake, even without Lawson, we all should acknowledge that UNC poses a very, very formidable threat to this Duke squad. Even QT can get Hansbrough the ball, sometimes...

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-04-2008, 10:59 AM
Maybe this is the wrong thread for such a posting; if so, the moderators will redirect it.

It's unfortunate any time a player is injured. The frequency seems to be rising as many have noted. Ty Lawson's injury at Florida State is part of that trend. I wish him a speedy recovery.

My preparations and anticipation for the game Wednesday evening are focused on what it will take play our best game of the season. This is, after all, part of the progression into March which Coach K is orchestrating. I expect our players to be as well prepared as anyone could be for the noise and other distractions which will be present. I'm looking forward to seeing how our physical conditioning and foul shooting compare to theirs since I expect both to be keys to the game. I look forward to seeing the battle between the teams to set the tempo and hope that our intelligence, speed, conditioning and rotation give us control of the pace of the game.

If you need a reminder of what a great group of kids these players are and how capable they are, visit Duke Blue Planet.

MulletMan
02-04-2008, 11:01 AM
I'm sure every poster is aware of this, but for Karma's sake, even without Lawson, we all should acknowledge that UNC poses a very, very formidable threat to this Duke squad. Even QT can get Hansbrough the ball, sometimes...

I would argue that QT is actually more adept at getting the ball inside to Hansbra, because that is what he is told to do. The MO for QT from Roy is, "Take car of the ball, and get it inside to Tyler." He's not supposed to create like Lawson, so that means more straight entry passes and less drive and dish, but, as you may well know, Hansbra enjoys/flourishes with the college post up game.

This could make the game a bit different, but I think we'll prepare for Lawson, and try to adhust to QT on the fly if Lawson can't go.

CDu
02-04-2008, 11:13 AM
I would argue that QT is actually more adept at getting the ball inside to Hansbra, because that is what he is told to do. The MO for QT from Roy is, "Take car of the ball, and get it inside to Tyler." He's not supposed to create like Lawson, so that means more straight entry passes and less drive and dish, but, as you may well know, Hansbra enjoys/flourishes with the college post up game.

This could make the game a bit different, but I think we'll prepare for Lawson, and try to adhust to QT on the fly if Lawson can't go.

That may be true IF Thomas can get the ball comfortably into the offense. I'd be interested to see how Thomas would do against Duke's pressure defense and half-court traps. He seemed overwhelmed with straight man-to-man when Dockery used to guard him. Imagine Nelson harrassing him and having half-court traps.

That said, I suspect Lawson will be healthy enough to play Wednesday, and Thomas will be in a slightly-expanded reserve role.

sandinmyshoes
02-04-2008, 11:38 AM
The loss of Lawson is a losing situation for Duke fans only in the most "fannish" manner possible, it takes some of the fun out of it if we win. Their fans will have an excuse. We will try to find ways to diminish that excuse, but it will be there in the backs of our minds. If they somehow beat us without Lawson or with him obviously less than 100%, it will make the loss sting all the more.

Otherwise, as has been pointed out it gives us a nice chance at creating some space in the race for the regular season championship and the resultant seedings. And on the fannish side of things, while it would always be mentioned when talking about this game, it won't come up when comparing overall records, ACC titles and so forth.

As for the TDD/IC thing, the only difference I see between their freeboards is in quantity, because the quality if equally bad. There are just a lot more posters on the IC board. I had access to both premium boards at one time. Both of those are much better, but neither one as good as this board so far as civility and maturity goes.

But I have to admit that the IC premium board simply had a lot more inside scoop. I don't know if that is because of the way the two coaching staffs handle the leaking of info or because the greater numbers at IC allow them to spend more money to get info. I dropped the TDD premium because it just wasn't worth it. My wife dropped the IC premium because she wasn't that interested in recruiting and didn't feel like she otherwise was getting much more about her team than she could for free.

sandinmyshoes
02-04-2008, 11:46 AM
Thomas makes good, safe entry passes to the post. But he has very little value as a penetrator. It seems he can find the gaps in a defense for a decent enough 8-10 foot jumper, but just isn't strong enough to take it all the way to the basket. And when the shot clock is winding down I don't fear him the way I do Lawson. Actually, I'm not sure I've seen anyone who scares me with the ball the way Lawson does.

Thomas also seems sneaky good as a helper on defense. He has shown a talent at stripping a ball handler who is trying to take another defender off the dribble. But his on the ball play is nothing special.

And above all else, if Thomas gets in foul trouble I don't see many options for UNC. Ginyard is not 100% himself, and who would be next in line? One of the walk-ons? I've heard rumblings from my UNC friends of Graves playing a point foward, but he looked very shaky with the ball yesterday, so I have to think there's not much to that.

Classof06
02-04-2008, 11:48 AM
I'll start by saying I think Lawson will play and even if he doesn't, that DOES NOT guarantee a Duke win.

As a fan, you always want the other team to be at full strength. But the reality is this: winning at Carolina on Wednesday gives us a coveted 2-game lead in the ACC, whether or not Lawson plays. Duke and Carolina are in a race to grab that 1 seed in the East Region; whoever wins the ACC regular season crown takes a HUGE step forward in claiming that spot. So honestly, if Lawson doesn't play, all that does is help Duke attain its goal. I want Lawson to play but the reality is he'll get to play Duke again, so even if he does sit out on Wednesday, all is not lost for UNC.

But any Duke fan saying us winning on Wednesday won't mean anything is nuts. It might not mean anything to Carolina fans but looking at the big picture, a 2 game lead in the ACC should make Duke fans ecstatic, regardless of who plays for Carolina.

dukegirlinsc
02-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Well said and appropriate perspective. To Hell with those living at the Dump on the Hump.

ALSO AGREED.

Stray Gator
02-04-2008, 12:10 PM
The loss of Lawson is a losing situation for Duke fans only in the most "fannish" manner possible, it takes some of the fun out of it if we win. Their fans will have an excuse....

If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's this: If Duke wins, the overwhelming majority of UNC fans will manage to find some excuse. Except for the brief "Doherty Dip," when so many Tar Heel fans seemed satisfied having their own coach to blame, the occasions when UNC fans credited Duke for winning simply on the basis that the Blue Devils were the better team have been about as rare as NFL franchises with undefeated seasons.

The standard refrain in recent years, of course, is that Duke "gets all the calls," and the Tar Heels are forced to "play 5 against 8" when facing the Blue Devils--a claim that brings chuckles from all ACC fans who remember the Dean Smith era. Even when Duke gets whistled for more fouls and takes fewer free throws, UNC fans can be counted on to protest that it wasn't the number of fouls or free throws that mattered, but the "timing" of the calls or the "no calls" on perceived infractions that the officials let Duke "get away with." Of course, if a UNC player has been injured prior to the Duke game, that just affords them the opportunity to diversify their "explanations" for a loss.

Duke fans need to recognize and accept that, when Duke defeats Carolina in basketball, most UNC fans will never concede that the better team won--regardless of whether both teams were at full strength, and regardless of where the game was played. The sooner you stop expecting Duke or Coach K to get any respect from UNC fans, the sooner you'll stop being disappointed.

Madrasdukie
02-04-2008, 12:11 PM
I would argue that QT is actually more adept at getting the ball inside to Hansbra, because that is what he is told to do. The MO for QT from Roy is, "Take car of the ball, and get it inside to Tyler." He's not supposed to create like Lawson, so that means more straight entry passes and less drive and dish, but, as you may well know, Hansbra enjoys/flourishes with the college post up game.

This could make the game a bit different, but I think we'll prepare for Lawson, and try to adhust to QT on the fly if Lawson can't go.

Assuming Lawson doesn't play much or doesn't play at all, and QT is hounded by our pressure D, who will handle the point for UNC ?

jipops
02-04-2008, 01:13 PM
Obviously the major focus is going to be on the Duke/UNC matchup, but for UNC the health of Lawson is absolutely vital for the rest of the season. Lawson at < 100&#37; could mean missing out on another title run. High ankle sprains can take a long time to heal. UNC wins simply by out-running the other team. Without their main jet at full strength they have to start relying a bit more on their defense, which we've seen isn't a great strength of theirs.

Should UNC beat Duke without Lawson (which is entirely possible and I'd say still likely), would anybody be at all surprised if the heels dropped their next game? I took a look at their schedule and the next game is Clemson at home, so Yes that would be kind of a surprise since it's never happened, but you get what I mean? The next game is at UVA, don't you think Singletary will be licking his chops?

So I would think an intelligent UNC fan, as much as they want to beat us, would be a bit more concerned about the rest of the season after the Duke game.

DukeDevil
02-04-2008, 01:16 PM
ALSO AGREED.

I have to say that, while I would like to take the high and mighty "I want their best shot" stance, I think if I'm honest I wouldn't mind if their whole team simultaneously twisted their ankles and we played their scrubs.

GO TO HELL CAROLINA!

BAMDSALL
02-04-2008, 01:21 PM
The N&O's ACC NOW is reporting that Lawson's X-ray was "negative" and that he will practice Tues. with a decision being made after practice regarding playing on Wed. night.

billybreen
02-04-2008, 01:23 PM
So I would think an intelligent UNC fan, as much as they want to beat us, would be a bit more concerned about the rest of the season after the Duke game.

Yeah, but what about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

rsvman
02-04-2008, 01:25 PM
It seems that some people misunderstood my earlier post in this thread when I basically said it was a lose-lose situation. I did not mean to imply that if we won it would be because Lawson wasn't at full strength; I meant to say that even if we clearly outplayed them and won by 20 points and could most likely have won even with Lawson in, the Tarheel fans would say the only reason we won was that Lawson was injured. No doubt they would say that.

However, I think StrayGator's post is the wisest thus far. I get it, now. It would just be one more excuse in an entire litany of excuses, and they're never, ever going to say that they just got outplayed; therefore we should stop wasting time waiting for them to do so.

Thank you, Stray. You are exactly correct.

blueprofessor
02-04-2008, 01:28 PM
Stray Gator:"Duke fans need to recognize and accept that, when Duke defeats Carolina in basketball, most UNC fans will never concede that the better team won--regardless of whether both teams were at full strength, and regardless of where the game was played. The sooner you stop expecting Duke or Coach K to get any respect from UNC fans, the sooner you'll stop being disappointed."

Yes! One cannot expect much from those who are so insecure vis-a-vis Duke that they cannot acknowledge the strengths of both schools and programs.Unreasonable or irrational people's approval does not deserve our concern.
Duke is resented by a good many UNC grads.Duke's ascension into the highest academic rank seems to have exasperated some of them.With UNC's every seeming advantage(tax dollars,size,a well-disposed legislature, state school loyalty, complete funding--like Stanford-- of all grants-in-aid at a much less expensive level per athletic grant), Duke still has had the more dominant bball program the last 20 years ,as well as a fine overall sports program. Funny, I always rooted hard for UNC in their Final Four games up until the mid-80s.By then ,I had had enough of the arrogance of Dean Smith and his boorish comments. I finally realized that the rivalry was not friendly in the eyes of many Heels. What matters is that our team and coaches respect each other and that the Duke community has a great deal of regard for our team.Best of luck,Blue Devils. You honor our school!
Best regards--Blueprofessor

Classof06
02-04-2008, 01:40 PM
Just released on ESPN:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071

Things just got a little more interesting, if that's possible..

billybreen
02-04-2008, 01:42 PM
Just released on ESPN:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071

Things just got a little more interesting, if that's possible..

Broken link. Fixed (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071).

Duvall
02-04-2008, 01:42 PM
Just released on ESPN:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071

Things just got a little more interesting, if that's possible..

You have much to learn about the ways of Carolina basketball, Classof06.

This means nothing. Possibly less.

billybreen
02-04-2008, 01:43 PM
You have much to learn about the ways of Carolina basketball, Classof06.

This means nothing. Possibly less.

Yeah, I'm sure Roy is just sandbagging, that so and so.

MulletMan
02-04-2008, 01:45 PM
Now I'm sure that Lawson will play.

OZZIE4DUKE
02-04-2008, 01:45 PM
Broken link. Fixed (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3230071).


"I don't feel real good about him playing," Williams said during the Atlantic Coast Conference's weekly media teleconference.

I don't feel real good about him playing either. I'm sure he will, and probably go Bootsie on us.

Regardless, carolina can go straight to Hell tonight, and stay there on Wednesday!

DukeDevil
02-04-2008, 01:47 PM
Yeah, I'm sure he'll end up playing. That comment by Ole Roy means nothing.

wilko
02-04-2008, 01:50 PM
I don't feel real good about him playing either. I'm sure he will, and probably go Bootsie on us.

If Roy is saying no... hes gonna go. He'll be fine. Im afraid I have to agree. Is it too much to hope for "played but ineffective"?

wilko
02-04-2008, 02:00 PM
What exactly did Reid do (ON THIS PLAY) that was dirty? Seemed to me like he ripped the ball away from a smaller man, before the whistle blew.

I didnt say he was Dirty or call him out by name in either case, but I see how you could infer it from what I wrote.

Im just frustrated and tired of OUR guys getting beat up and it being "OK" because its Duke somehow. We've had LOTS of opportunities for our guys to get seriously hurt. Kyle hitting the deck and face gouges. Markie got a nasty one under his eye.. couple inches higher and it could have been really F*ing tragic. JJ used to get bloodied on a regular basis... Just play b-ball.

So maybe on that particular play it was incidental, but surely you've noticed the trend. Thats mainly what Im speaking to.

Classof06
02-04-2008, 02:02 PM
I honestly think it's gonna be a close game whether Lawson plays or not.

stickdog
02-04-2008, 02:06 PM
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/blue-smoke.jpg

Indoor66
02-04-2008, 02:07 PM
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/blue-smoke.jpg

Ole Roy blowing smoke.

dukeENG2003
02-04-2008, 02:22 PM
Oh, I've definitely seen the trend, I do have two good eyes. . .

JasonEvans
02-04-2008, 02:27 PM
In ESPN's preview of the game (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3229994), they say the following --


The Blue Devils also are 7-0 in the ACC standings, a half-game ahead of No. 3 North Carolina (6-1).

On what planet is 7-0 only a half game ahead of a team that is 6-1?!?!?

This is yet another clear example of ESPN's anti-Duke bias ;)

--Jason "glad this game is AFTER Super Tuesday so I can actually watch it!" Evans

BlueDevilJay
02-04-2008, 02:30 PM
I have to say that, while I would like to take the high and mighty "I want their best shot" stance, I think if I'm honest I wouldn't mind if their whole team simultaneously twisted their ankles and we played their scrubs.

GO TO HELL CAROLINA!

I didn't mean for my comment to come across as "high and mighty" if you took it that way. I've just always wanted Duke to face teams playing at their highest level, so we don't defeat a weakened opponent, and give ourselves a false sense of security so to speak, or make us think our team is better than they actually are. Thats my reasoning behind it, AND I don't wanna give UNC fans an excuse after we beat them Wed night :)

BlueDevilJay
02-04-2008, 02:35 PM
In ESPN's preview of the game (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3229994), they say the following --



On what planet is 7-0 only a half game ahead of a team that is 6-1?!?!?

This is yet another clear example of ESPN's anti-Duke bias ;)

--Jason "glad this game is AFTER Super Tuesday so I can actually watch it!" Evans

I was just reading that a few minutes ago and trying to figure out the same thing....I doubt thats much to do with Anti-Duke bias as it is moreso UNC education... :D

Madrasdukie
02-04-2008, 02:37 PM
Anybody know of Ginyard's ball handling ability ? The ESPN article referenced above says he along with QT will be handling the ball if Lawson doesn't play.

buddy
02-04-2008, 03:30 PM
I seem to remember a few years ago we had to draft a forward (Grant Hill) to play point when our point guard (Hurley) broke his foot. If I remember, we did OK. UNC will be OK with or without Lawson. It's not like they have a bunch of stiffs on that squad. We'll play whomever shows up, just as whomever shows up for us is our team. GTHC!

Lulu
02-04-2008, 03:40 PM
well it's officially lose-lose for duke now. ESPN mentions Lawsons injury in no less than 3 places on their mbb homepage. The poll on who will win the game even includes the clause "if Lawson is unable to play". I think it's a joke that the IC people think we're happy about this; I couldn't be more ticked at the situation and all the excuses that are already being made.

elvis14
02-04-2008, 03:42 PM
I meant to say that even if we clearly outplayed them and won by 20 points and could most likely have won even with Lawson in, the Tarheel fans would say the only reason we won was that Lawson was injured. No doubt they would say that.

I just want to beat the hell out of Carowina. I don't care who they have on the floor and I REALLY don't care what the Tar Heel fans have to say after the game (or pretty much anytime). A win is a win and they can whine all they want as long as we win.

wilko
02-04-2008, 03:46 PM
I just want to beat the hell out of Carowina. I don't care who they have on the floor and I REALLY don't care what the Tar Heel fans have to say after the game (or pretty much anytime). A win is a win and they can whine all they want as long as we win.

I'll 2nd that..

dukegirlinsc
02-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Speaking of UNC-FSU, does anyone else think we've all gotten the message that KFC has spicy hot wings? It's one thing to run the same blasted ad every commercial break but twice every commercial break? Enough, already.

THEY'RE SO GOOD.
i had 10 yesterday.

yancem
02-04-2008, 04:15 PM
I seem to remember a few years ago we had to draft a forward (Grant Hill) to play point when our point guard (Hurley) broke his foot. If I remember, we did OK. UNC will be OK with or without Lawson. It's not like they have a bunch of stiffs on that squad. We'll play whomever shows up, just as whomever shows up for us is our team. GTHC!

Actually, IIRC Hill was actually recruited with intentions of him playing some pg.

rasputin
02-04-2008, 04:48 PM
If we win, there is always the possibility of the sour grapes argument. Remember when Heywood (I think it was Heywood) characterized the ACC Tournament as "small change"?

Constantstrain 81
02-04-2008, 04:52 PM
While there are many factors - 3 pt shooting, free throw shooting, Tyler H. and his inside game at play, I believe that the game will come down to who can impose their will on the other.

UNC prefers a fast pace, we actually need a fast pace to best take advantage of our bench. This advantage really doesn't fully take effect until the end of the 1st half and the middle of the second half. Therefore, if you are on the road or not shooting well (or both), you can find yourself on the long end of a deficit (MD and NCSU) until the worm turns. You have to have nerve to keep on playing that hand.

I think that we will hold Tyler in check - but he will still end up with 22 points and 16 rebounds. I believe that keeping Ellington and Green from big nights is more important. UNC doesn't seem as deep in terms of truly talented monster scoring studs as they have been. We need to stifle the studs they do have.

I expect to be down early. We'll get some turnovers, but shoot poorly. Offensive rebounding and put-backs will have UNC up by 5-8 points. We'll fight back, but trail at the half by 3. UNC will stretch it back to 8. Our greater depth will begin to tell and someone will hit some key "3's" in the middle of the second half.

We will maintain a 1-3 point lead for most of the rest of the game - with free throw shooting a key. We'll win by 3.

Scheyer and Taylor King will lead the first half (King will hit 2-3 bombs). Nelson, Paulus, and Singler will lead the second. Lance Thomas will be a pleasant surprise with 6 points and 6 rebounds, but he will be in foul trouble on Hansbr.

Henderson will have a solid, low-key game - some big steals and a few key shots. He will not shoot well from the line or the field. Nolan Smith will start slow, but come up big during a five minute stretch of the first half.

Lawson, whether he plays or not, will not be a key factor - he is hurt. His loss will impact the running game, but may actually help UNC to focus on getting it inside in the halfcourt. Turnovers will come early and late, but not much in the middle.

Duke 84-81.:) :)

77devil
02-04-2008, 04:58 PM
In ESPN's preview of the game (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3229994), they say the following --

On what planet is 7-0 only a half game ahead of a team that is 6-1?!?!?

This is yet another clear example of ESPN's anti-Duke bias ;)

--Jason "glad this game is AFTER Super Tuesday so I can actually watch it!" Evans

Basic statistics obviously is not a requirement for a UNC journalism degree.;)


and even if he doesn't, that DOES NOT guarantee a Duke win.


Now that's going out on a limb.

Uncle Drew
02-04-2008, 05:40 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=ArC9ITgwmysuQB6SW4upH5PevbYF?slug=ap-t25-ncarolina-lawson&prov=ap&type=lgns

SeattleIrish
02-04-2008, 05:50 PM
Thanks, Latta:


Lawson's top backup, Bobby Frasor, is out for the season with torn knee ligaments. That leaves third-stringer Quentin Thomas and starting swingman Marcus Ginyard as options if Lawson can't play.

Ginyard is battling a case of turf toe, Williams said.

Wow - now they have an excuse for their THIRD string PG!

s.i.

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-04-2008, 05:55 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=ArC9ITgwmysuQB6SW4upH5PevbYF?slug=ap-t25-ncarolina-lawson&prov=ap&type=lgns
You'll know who's starting when they start. It's amazing how many miraculous recoveries have taken place regardless of who the coach is. "Second verse same as the first."

Somehow that musical reference brought to mind one of the Mardi Gras parade themes this year. Krewe du Vieux chose "Musical Misery Tour"... what a perfect way to describe the tableau that's going to unfold in the Dome on Wednesday! The smoke is rising..... a blue haze is settling in.......

heath_harshman4
02-04-2008, 06:19 PM
I am really sick of hearing that this is a "lose-lose"...

Guys, if we win, we have a 3-game lead in the ACC standings, counting the fact that we would have the tie-breaker.

WHO CARES who they have on the court? It's not like UNC fans don't whine enough already, them whining about us BEATING them w/o Lawson would be the least of my worries with a 3 game cushion in the ACC and a ton of momentum for the 2nd half of the ACC season.

Only good can come out of beating UNC.

Uncle Drew
02-04-2008, 06:59 PM
DITBD typed......"You'll know who's starting when they start."

Okay, stop trying to confuse us with logic and facts! :D

Heath is on the money. UNC fans don't need excuses handed to them on a silver platter when they lose. IF Lawson plays, if Marvin Williams and Wright were still there and they lost they would come up with some other reason why they lost. FYI: in high school it's great to have a UNC fan around, they are AWESOME at coming up with excuses besides, "my dog ate my homework".

On a side note, when you know players A, B, C, D & E are available and will start it makes things easier to prepare for on the DEFENSIVE end. I'm sure enough game tape has been studied to know the offensive tendancies of all the UNC players. And I'm sure Coach K has game plan 1a & 1b in place to start the game. If either plan works he will tweak it. If it doesn't work he will try to make adjustments depending on how the game is being played and most importantly called. That being said if they are short handed at point guard I would freakin' LOVE to see whomever their point guard is Wednesday get into some foul trouble. Dukes on the ball pressure is fierce on experienced players, but down right sadistic on those with a lack of previous playing time.


Finally I know "turf toe" is a laymans term for a medical condition. But how do you get it playing basketball?

Madrasdukie
02-04-2008, 07:20 PM
I am really sick of hearing that this is a "lose-lose"...

Guys, if we win, we have a 3-game lead in the ACC standings, counting the fact that we would have the tie-breaker.

WHO CARES who they have on the court? It's not like UNC fans don't whine enough already, them whining about us BEATING them w/o Lawson would be the least of my worries with a 3 game cushion in the ACC and a ton of momentum for the 2nd half of the ACC season.

Only good can come out of beating UNC.

Second that. And might I add, we'll also be one-up in the race to get the first four rounds of the NCAA tournament in Charlotte as opposed to just the first two (ref: Al Featherston's recent article on Duke, UNC and the pod system).

RelativeWays
02-04-2008, 07:21 PM
Line-ups on paper don't win basketball games, if they did, we would have blasted UNC in the last home game of 2006. I don't care who is or who isn't in the game, I want a win sealed with a huge Hendo slam to silence the sheep.

BlueintheFace
02-04-2008, 07:39 PM
We are all forgetting the most important implication of a Duke win over UNC. SEEDING IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. There is a very good chance that Duke or UNC wins the #1 seed in the East this year. The #1 team in the East DOES NOT LEAVE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA UNTIL THE FINAL FOUR. If we open up a two game lead on UNC in the ACC with 8 to play. That is absolutely enormous!!!! Let's feel bad for Lawson but be grateful he is not playing. It doesn't matter how we win, but that we win!

MarkD83
02-04-2008, 10:07 PM
"I don't feel real good about him starting", Roy Williams.

With my Duke Blue glasses I read " Lawson will be starting because it will give the crowd and our team a huge emotional lift", Roy Williams.

Roy is very good at motivating his team and the longer he downplays Lawson's status the better the motivation.

jimsumner
02-04-2008, 10:38 PM
"Guys, if we win, we have a 3-game lead in the ACC standings, counting the fact that we would have the tie-breaker."

The tie-breaker? Don't you think it's a tad early to start assuming tie-breakers?

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-04-2008, 10:40 PM
"I don't feel real good about him starting", Roy Williams.

With my Duke Blue glasses I read " Lawson will be starting because it will give the crowd and our team a huge emotional lift", Roy Williams.

Roy is very good at motivating his team and the longer he downplays Lawson's status the better the motivation.
Roy was trained at the Dean Smith School of Medicine. He's given his prognosis to the media. A magical, mystery cure can be found between Tuesday's x-ray and Wednesday's game.

heath_harshman4
02-04-2008, 11:13 PM
"Guys, if we win, we have a 3-game lead in the ACC standings, counting the fact that we would have the tie-breaker."

The tie-breaker? Don't you think it's a tad early to start assuming tie-breakers?

assuming? whats to assume? if we win, we would have the tie-breaker over UNC. At least up until we play eachother in Durham.

heath_harshman4
02-04-2008, 11:15 PM
We are all forgetting the most important implication of a Duke win over UNC. SEEDING IN THE NCAA TOURNAMENT. There is a very good chance that Duke or UNC wins the #1 seed in the East this year. The #1 team in the East DOES NOT LEAVE THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA UNTIL THE FINAL FOUR. If we open up a two game lead on UNC in the ACC with 8 to play. That is absolutely enormous!!!! Let's feel bad for Lawson but be grateful he is not playing. It doesn't matter how we win, but that we win!

Not having to leave North Carolina until the Final 4 would be AMAZING. Whichever team out of UNC and Duke gets that has a HUGE lift. I'm not saying its an automatic bid to the Final 4, but it helps a ton.

devildeac
02-04-2008, 11:41 PM
A magical, mystery cure can be found between Tuesday's x-ray and Wednesday's game.

That is a great play on words. Got Beatles?

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-05-2008, 12:06 AM
A magical, mystery cure can be found between Tuesday's x-ray and Wednesday's game.


That is a great play on words. Got Beatles?
I've watched a lot of Mardi Gras parades. One special theme this year is "Magical Misery Tour," gave me the idea.

jimsumner
02-05-2008, 12:15 AM
Duke and Carolina play each other twice. If they split, the tie-breaker is determined by other opponents. If one team wins both games, then you most likely won't need the tie-breaker. But to argue that 8-0 is three games better than 6-2 when the two teams play again is just absurd.

yancem
02-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Duke and Carolina play each other twice. If they split, the tie-breaker is determined by other opponents. If one team wins both games, then you most likely won't need the tie-breaker. But to argue that 8-0 is three games better than 6-2 when the two teams play again is just absurd.

Actually, since we beat MD and UNC lost to them, that is another leg up in the tie breaker department. That too can change going forward but as close as the race for first may end up, every little bit helps.

FreezingDevil
02-05-2008, 11:10 AM
Here's an interesting article written by Jerry Ratcliffe in Charlottesville's Daily Progress. Ol' Roy certainly had some interesting things to say:

"You think I’m lying, but for one play we put [Hansbrough, the team’s center] at the point and he brought it across halfcourt. We kept a defensive guard on him the whole time and all [Hansbrough] would do was giggle the whole time,” Williams said. “I believe if we did it in a game, he’d do it without the giggling part.”

I had no idea that Hansbrough was really a 12 year old school girl.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=CDP%2FMGArticle%2FCDP_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354485620&path=!sports

freedevil
02-05-2008, 04:58 PM
Sandbaggers: http://wral.com/sports/story/2398117/

heath_harshman4
02-05-2008, 06:45 PM
Actually, since we beat MD and UNC lost to them, that is another leg up in the tie breaker department. That too can change going forward but as close as the race for first may end up, every little bit helps.

thank you. thats exactly what I mean, if we win this one, we get the tie breaker and/or at least a share of the tie breaker no matter the outcome of the 2nd match. every little bit helps.

pamtar
02-05-2008, 09:02 PM
Sandbaggers: http://wral.com/sports/story/2398117/

“Mike (K) is not my bosom buddy,” Williams said. “It’s hard for someone to be my bosom buddy if you don’t play golf.”

WTF?!? Are you kidding me?

BD80
02-05-2008, 09:23 PM
“Mike (K) is not my bosom buddy,” Williams said. “It’s hard for someone to be my bosom buddy if you don’t play golf.”



Maybe he and ex-coach Knight can play together. I would pay to see Bobby dropping F-bombs all over the place while Roy lets loose with a string of gollys and dag-gone-its.

billybreen
02-05-2008, 10:00 PM
“Mike (K) is not my bosom buddy,” Williams said. “It’s hard for someone to be my bosom buddy if you don’t play golf.”

WTF?!? Are you kidding me?

Ugh, does that mean my dad is bosom buddies with Roy? They have adjacent lockers at a course in Charleston, though as far as I know they've never played a round together.

CDu
02-05-2008, 10:25 PM
“Mike (K) is not my bosom buddy,” Williams said. “It’s hard for someone to be my bosom buddy if you don’t play golf.”

WTF?!? Are you kidding me?

I suspect that that was an attempt at a joke on ole Roy's part.

Highlander
02-05-2008, 11:00 PM
“Mike (K) is not my bosom buddy,” Williams said. “It’s hard for someone to be my bosom buddy if you don’t play golf.”

WTF?!? Are you kidding me?

I was listening to an interview on Sports Radio in Charlotte with Coach K, and the host asked Coach K why he didn't play golf, considering most of his peers were avid golfers. His answer was pretty good, IMO. I'll paraphrase...


Golf takes a lot of time to play. He doesn't have a lot of time.
He's very competitive, so he'd have to invest even more time in golf to get good at it.
He likes to work up a sweat when he works out. Golf doesn't really allow you to do that.
He grew up in an urban area, and there weren't a lot of golf courses around.
He does play tennis, which doesn't take nearly as long, allows him to work up a sweat, and he's good enough at it to be competitive.


All in all, I can certainly understand not wanting to take up golf.

pamtar
02-06-2008, 05:37 PM
I was just struck by the term "bosom buddy." Seems like its a little soft, even for Ol'roy.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

hc5duke
02-06-2008, 05:39 PM
Ugh, does that mean my dad is bosom buddies with Roy? They have adjacent lockers at a course in Charleston, though as far as I know they've never played a round together.

When's your dad's birthday? I think DBR'ers should chip in and send him a 12-pack of shaving cream. He'll know what to do with it...

billybreen
02-06-2008, 05:52 PM
When's your dad's birthday? I think DBR'ers should chip in and send him a 12-pack of shaving cream. He'll know what to do with it...

August 4, but I doubt he's game for shenanigans. He's trying to be a gentleman.

Also members: Bobby Cremins and Darius Rucker of Hootie and the Blowfish. Fun facts!