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View Full Version : Duke MBB vs. Miami Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
02-02-2008, 06:04 PM
Put your post-game comments here.

Karl Beem
02-02-2008, 06:09 PM
Tattoo removal might become a lucrative trade in Miami.:rolleyes:

dukestheheat
02-02-2008, 06:15 PM
Tattoo removal might become a lucrative trade in Miami.:rolleyes:

agreed. man, some of our guys are going to need tetanus shots after this game today. i've not seen a game that physical in a long time, and we handled it quite well imo.

dth.

DukeBlood
02-02-2008, 06:16 PM
3 Straight games Duke scoring 50+ in the 2nd half, and 4 out the last 5.

Nelson, Singler and Paulus all scored well.. Although Paulus was 4/11 from the Field(4/10 from 3).

Henderson struggled offensively but played good defense and grabbed a team high 7 boards.

Everyone really contributed. Great game, Very physical.. Maybe just the type of game we needed before UNC? Also, I believe are rebounding is getting better.. ESPN boxscore says we outrebounded them 34-29. Also says we only had 12 assists... Thats my only real bummer is alot of 1 on 1 slashing

Also, Is Smith on a shart leash? He came in at the end let his man drive by him(playing lazy defense).. Paulus came back in after 10 seconds of rest. Then Paulus commits a TO and a foul in a matter of a minute but yet Smith doesnt come in. Just thought that was interesting, Wonder if you all noticed the same.

shadowfax336
02-02-2008, 06:18 PM
What do you do when Paulus and Nolan both have overall good games with a few rough patches...
Who do we want to glue to the bench today? (Since this is clearly a black and white issue)

DukeDevil
02-02-2008, 06:32 PM
I'm almost sure Paulus broke his nose early in the game. Having broken mine 3 times I recognize the classic bump on the side of his nose. Even if he didn't, that hurt like sin the whole game, that's some tough play on his part.

This team knows how to tough it out, but I'm sick of this "beat the heck out of Duke" strategy by the other teams. In case nobody's noticed, IT'S NOT WORKING.

Kudos to ESPN for calling out that elbow to the chest/"oh I'm just scratching my ear innocently" incident. And Kudos to Singler (I think that's who got elbowed) for just ignoring it. I really love his attitude, everything seems to roll off him and he just smiles.

This team rocks.

Saratoga2
02-02-2008, 06:33 PM
3 Straight games Duke scoring 50+ in the 2nd half, and 4 out the last 5.

Nelson, Singler and Paulus all scored well.. Although Paulus was 4/11 from the Field(4/10 from 3).

Henderson struggled offensively but played good defense and grabbed a team high 7 boards.

Everyone really contributed. Great game, Very physical.. Maybe just the type of game we needed before UNC? Also, I believe are rebounding is getting better.. ESPN boxscore says we outrebounded them 34-29. Also says we only had 12 assists... Thats my only real bummer is alot of 1 on 1 slashing

Also, Is Smith on a shart leash? He came in at the end let his man drive by him(playing lazy defense).. Paulus came back in after 10 seconds of rest. Then Paulus commits a TO and a foul in a matter of a minute but yet Smith doesnt come in. Just thought that was interesting, Wonder if you all noticed the same.

I've got to think that Nelson is the MOTM again after an excellent performance both ways. Singler also had a terrific game and Paulus did well despite having a lower shooting percentage. He also had a couple of silly fouls at the end, but it didn't matter then.

Henderson wasn't hitting his jumper well tonight and didn't hit when in close either. I disagree with you on his defense as well, since I thought he was out of position when Miami got several key baskets. You could see coach K was not happy with Henderson on the side line after those defenses lapses.

I am not certain, but I thought Thomas may have had a headache or something since he was takiing pills on the sideline and King got a lot of minutes and wasn't pulled, even when there were defensive lapses. He is a strong guy and could counter balance those Bigs from Miami.

It appears that every ACC game will see our bigs in foul trouble. It would be good to have Zoubek back to alleviate that issue, since sooner or later, both Singler and Thomas will foul out.

I haven't seen the stats yet, but I thought Scheyer had a very nice controlled game. He may have gotten 9 points and really steadies the team with his handle and passing. More and more he has been called on to mix it up with the bigs, so his foul total is much higher compared to earlier in the year. I would like to see him be more aggressive on the scoring end. With his free throw shooting, he could add points if he could drive.

Thomas did some good things tonight and he may be turning the corner with his offense. It would be great to get 6 or 8 points a game from him in 25 minutes of play.

A good game against a very physical team. Lots of fouls were called and lots more could have been called. The refs seemed more likely to give fouls for work inside than for perimiter bumps, although we did get quite a few of those. McClinton is kind of a thug based of the elbow he threw to start the game.

Bob Green
02-02-2008, 06:40 PM
I am not certain, but I thought Thomas may have had a headache or something since he was takiing pills on the sideline and King got a lot of minutes and wasn't pulled, even when there were defensive lapses. He is a strong guy and could counter balance those Bigs from Miami.

Thomas appeared to tweak his back on a sequence were he grabbed an offensive rebound, twisted, and scored a basket.


McClinton is kind of a thug based of the elbow he threw to start the game.

McClinton lost my vote for All-ACC props with his chippy play tonight.

2535Miles
02-02-2008, 06:45 PM
Aside from the 1st half shenanigans (elbows to the chest, bumps on the way to free throw line) I was pleased to see the hugs at the end of the game. Nice to see some sportsmanship after that past few games.

Duke continues to thrill me in the 2nd half. I'm thoroughly impressed with our ability to respond and adjust.

dukerev
02-02-2008, 06:45 PM
This team is like Rocky. You can punch them in the head a dozen times (each round) and they still get up and play their game. Amazing composure by our guys, particularly Singler, Paulus and Demarcus today.

I thought that Miami was very physical, but not in a dirty way like NC State or VA Tech were. I wonder if the fouling on every single trip down the court was a strategy in trying to break up Duke's rythmn. (As an aside, any of ya'll that were at the game - how many fouls did you have? Lavin and Musberger each had 2 at halftime...like everyone else in the building it seemed).

The halftime adjustments the past several games have been phenomenal. Kudos to the coaching staff. Kudos all around, in fact.

9F, 9F, 9F, 9F

Classof06
02-02-2008, 06:46 PM
I'm impressed with the way Nelson locked up McClinton and never really let him become a factor. Beyond his 21 points and great 2nd half, his defense on McClinton was what really stood out to me and is the reason why I think he is MOTM.

This is why I believe we should start Demarcus on Wayne Ellington come Wednesday. I think it would make it very hard for Ellington, who only averaged 3.5 points in 2 games against Duke last year. Pretty sure it was Demarcus who guarded him last year also.

wisteria
02-02-2008, 06:47 PM
We played a good second half, which is like a trend now.

Beside being happy for another win, I can't help worrying about our foul troubles. Anyway you look at it, both Kyle and Lance are prone to fouls. And we are playing Tylor Hansbrough next week. I fear that Kyle, Lance, and Dave may all get fouled out halfway though second half.

Oh, and, who is this new Lance Thomas? Keep it up, lance!

dukelifer
02-02-2008, 07:04 PM
Duke took care of business. That was supposed to happen. Except for Thomas's back tweak and Paulus's sore nose- Duke got a good game to ready themselves for the big game against UNC. Nelson continues to play hard at crunch time and is really improving form the line when it matters. Henderson was off today so we hope he follows this with a great game as he will be under some pressure at UNC from the fans given last year's incident. On to UNC.

gw67
02-02-2008, 07:12 PM
In response to questions by shadowfax336, I would play them together for several minutes if they are both playing well. Today, while the outside shooting of Paulus and Smith was comparable the other stats weren't. I thought the time split of 25 minutes (Paulus) and 17 minutes (Smith) was about right considering how each was playing. Henderson did not shoot well but his rebounding was needed.

Shadow - What is meant by your comment that it is a black and white issue? Are you accusing Coach K of being racist just because he seemed to have a short leash for Smith and you happen to like Smith? I sure hope not!

This was a good sports day! Duke and Maryland won hard fought games and two Redskin favorites were chosen for the Hall of Fame.

gw67

CDu
02-02-2008, 07:16 PM
Shadow - What is meant by your comment that it is a black and white issue? Are you accusing Coach K of being racist just because he seemed to have a short leash for Smith and you happen to like Smith? I sure hope not!

I don't mean to speak for shadowfax, but I read as a sarcastic jab at the idea that you have to choose one or the other. The discussion on these boards has made it seem as though you have to like one or the other.

If you were meaning sarcasm with your post and this was just in jest, sorry I missed it!

dukestheheat
02-02-2008, 07:16 PM
I'm almost sure Paulus broke his nose early in the game. Having broken mine 3 times I recognize the classic bump on the side of his nose. Even if he didn't, that hurt like sin the whole game, that's some tough play on his part.

This team knows how to tough it out, but I'm sick of this "beat the heck out of Duke" strategy by the other teams. In case nobody's noticed, IT'S NOT WORKING.

Kudos to ESPN for calling out that elbow to the chest/"oh I'm just scratching my ear innocently" incident. And Kudos to Singler (I think that's who got elbowed) for just ignoring it. I really love his attitude, everything seems to roll off him and he just smiles.

This team rocks.

I thought it might be broken as well, and he sure has the swelling face to go along with it, but I sure hope it's not broken. Any word on the injury from the coaches' show?

thanks,

dth.

Bob Green
02-02-2008, 07:19 PM
Shadow - What is meant by your comment that it is a black and white issue? Are you accusing Coach K of being racist just because he seemed to have a short leash for Smith and you happen to like Smith? I sure hope not!

gw67

I can't speak for Shadow, but I interpreted his post to mean "all or nothing," or "love or hate." Duke fans either love their point guard or hate him. It is one extreme or the other extreme.

The1Bluedevil
02-02-2008, 07:23 PM
This is the 3rd game in a row teams have shot 50% or near that mark against Duke. I hope this isn't the case Wednesday.

wisteria
02-02-2008, 07:34 PM
I hate to voice negativity after a win, but I can't help worrying a bit after the recent couple games.

Our D seems to be not as effective as before, allowing high-percentage shooting. It may be due to teams taking it down low against us, and today's sloppiness may be due to the quick turn-around of 2 games in 3 days. We are not forcing as many turn-overs in the last two games. And the early game struggles will be a big problem next wednesday. Our bench production dropped a lot in the past few games. We are still going 8 or 9 deep but I can't help noticing the starters accounting for most of the points. Nelson is playing like 38 minutes a game ( I don't have stat though).

I can't say that we are in our best shape right now. Going into Chapel Hill next Wednesy...... I am a bit worried. I would be sincerely glad to be proven wrong, though.

CDu
02-02-2008, 07:52 PM
I hate to voice negativity after a win, but I can't help worrying a bit after the recent couple games.

Our D seems to be not as effective as before, allowing high-percentage shooting. It may be due to teams taking it down low against us, and today's sloppiness may be due to the quick turn-around of 2 games in 3 days. We are not forcing as many turn-overs in the last two games. And the early game struggles will be a big problem next wednesday. Our bench production dropped a lot in the past few games. We are still going 8 or 9 deep but I can't help noticing the starters accounting for most of the points. Nelson is playing like 38 minutes a game ( I don't have stat though).

I can't say that we are in our best shape right now. Going into Chapel Hill next Wednesy...... I am a bit worried. I would be sincerely glad to be proven wrong, though.


Well, there's certainly reason for concern going into Wednesday - UNC could very well beat us.

That said, there are maybe 5-6 teams total that I'd be really concerned about all year. We happen to face one of them at least twice. The nice thing is that this team has so many weapons that we just haven't seemed susceptible to the underdog upset.

We're going to win a LOT of games this year. There will be maybe 5-6 games all year that we won't be a clear favorite to win: UNC home and away, potentially UNC in the ACC tourney, and (if we're so fortunate) the elite 8 and the final four. We have flaws, obviously. But every team this year has flaws. It may be that UNC will exploit our lack of post strength. It may also be that we force turnovers on the wings and/or shoot the lights out from three.

When we face a UNC, UCLA, Kansas, etc, we're going to be at a disadvantage in the post. That's just the nature of the team we have this year. And in some of those cases, they're going to have an advantage at point guard. But I don't think there is any team that has better wing players than us. And I don't think anyone has as many scoring threats as us. So we have our advantages as well. It just depends on which team can exploit their advantages more.

cspan37421
02-02-2008, 07:52 PM
To me, that first half showed once again that the addition of these football schools has led to thuggery on the basketball court. Get rid of them I say, restore the 8 team ACC, restore classy play as the rule and not some quaint relic of the past, and let the college presidents find money somewhere else.

Full disclosure: the game was not carried to the end where I live. It cut off with a few minutes to go, as our county sheriff was arrested today on federal extortion charges and a whole bunch of other stuff. So that led the news as 6pm. I was also gone in the late afternoon so have been watching it on DVR. So I didn't get to see any good sportsmanship at the end. But I don't think that cancels out the poor sportsmanship early on.

In addition to the higher quality play with higher quality players (players as people that is), I miss the balanced schedule of home/away vs. all the ACC teams.

Oh, and the expansion it hasn't exactly brought up the quality of football in the conference. But I guess it brought in money, so that's all that matters, right? :confused:

CDu
02-02-2008, 07:57 PM
To me, that first half showed once again that the addition of these football schools has led to thuggery on the basketball court. Get rid of them I say, restore the 8 team ACC, restore classy play as the rule and not some quaint relic of the past, and let the college presidents find money somewhere else.

Full disclosure: the game was not carried to the end where I live. It cut off with a few minutes to go, as our county sheriff was arrested today on federal extortion charges and a whole bunch of other stuff. So that led the news as 6pm. I was also gone in the late afternoon so have been watching it on DVR. So I didn't get to see any good sportsmanship at the end. But I don't think that cancels out the poor sportsmanship early on.

In addition to the higher quality play with higher quality players (players as people that is), I miss the balanced schedule of home/away vs. all the ACC teams.

Oh, and the expansion it hasn't exactly brought up the quality of football in the conference. But I guess it brought in money, so that's all that matters, right? :confused:

It's debatable whether it has really done even that all that well. The conference championship game hasn't exactly worked out all that great.

I'm not happy about the way the conference has gone. Not only have Miami and Virginia Tech brought the Big East overly physical style of play to the league, but the coaches at FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech have gone that route too. I guess if you can't compete on skill, you just recruit big strong guys who play rough to make up for it.

Fish80
02-02-2008, 08:00 PM
Very pleased with the win. Tough, physical game. Another great all around game from DeMarcus. It is so satisfying to see him playing like this his senior year.

Why wasn't a foul called when Paulus got elbowed in the nose? Whether intentional or not, clearly contact was made and the player gained an advantage.

dukelifer
02-02-2008, 08:11 PM
I hate to voice negativity after a win, but I can't help worrying a bit after the recent couple games.

Our D seems to be not as effective as before, allowing high-percentage shooting. It may be due to teams taking it down low against us, and today's sloppiness may be due to the quick turn-around of 2 games in 3 days. We are not forcing as many turn-overs in the last two games. And the early game struggles will be a big problem next wednesday. Our bench production dropped a lot in the past few games. We are still going 8 or 9 deep but I can't help noticing the starters accounting for most of the points. Nelson is playing like 38 minutes a game ( I don't have stat though).

I can't say that we are in our best shape right now. Going into Chapel Hill next Wednesy...... I am a bit worried. I would be sincerely glad to be proven wrong, though.

It is true that teams are shooting well against Duke of late- but two of the last three have been eventual blowouts- so letting up on D has kept them a bit more rested. Also remember this game was a quick turn around - from a late game Thursday to an early game today- Duke should have been a bit weary. The next game will be intense for 40 minutes- so I am glad they didn't expend any more energy than needed to win. Hopefully they get tomorrow off to rest.

RelativeWays
02-02-2008, 09:41 PM
I missed it :(. My brother in law has been in an unfortunate set of circumstances and needed help moving so thats what I did for most of the day. not all of his fault. For some reason, I thought we were playing on Sunday like UNC was. From what I understand Miami hung around the 10 point barrier but never really threatened, correct?

BlueintheFace
02-02-2008, 10:32 PM
A couple times today you could hear the student section chanting "let them play" at the refs. One time they did it after a Miami foul. Neither team was able to get into any kind of groove because of all of the foul calls. I thought the refs over-reacted to the Paulus face-shot (it looked like it got broken from where I was sitting) and decided to impose their will on the game. This made for a pretty unsatisfying game all-together.

Also, can somebody tell me at what point in the half Kyle got elbowed? I don't remember seeing in from the student section?

banneheim
02-02-2008, 10:43 PM
Is there anybody better than shooting the passing lanes than Nelson? It seems that each game, he shoots the gap and gets a dunk, what a momentum changer! Does Nelson stick Ellington on Wed or will Coach K put him on Lawson to prevent penetration?

Section 8
02-02-2008, 11:14 PM
I'm not happy about the way the conference has gone. Not only have Miami and Virginia Tech brought the Big East overly physical style of play to the league, but the coaches at FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech have gone that route too. I guess if you can't compete on skill, you just recruit big strong guys who play rough to make up for it.

The ACC is becoming a "Big" conference. Big Ten, Big East...big elbows to the chops inside. "Blue collar" cheap shot central. Teams trying to neutralize talent with violence and thuggery. It's pretty lame. Maybe it should be called the Big ACC, just to distinguish it from Real ACC Basketball.

DukeUsul
02-02-2008, 11:38 PM
Very pleased with the win. Tough, physical game. Another great all around game from DeMarcus. It is so satisfying to see him playing like this his senior year.

Why wasn't a foul called when Paulus got elbowed in the nose? Whether intentional or not, clearly contact was made and the player gained an advantage.


Art. 7. The following shall be considered excessive swinging:
a. When arm(s) and elbow(s) are swung about while using the shoulders
as pivots, and the speed of the extended arm(s) and elbow(s)
exceeds that of the rest of the body as it rotates on the hips or on the
pivot foot; or
b. When the speed and vigor with which the arm(s) and elbow(s) are
swung is such that injury could result if another player were contacted.

I don't think the elbow that got Paulus was a violation by section a., as the elbows were swinging at the same speed as the body was rotating.

b is surely a judgement call. And well.... if injury did in fact occur, you might argue that it should be considered a violation. However, I don't think he did was any worse than happens in any other game. Our guys swing the ball around in certain situations, just as much as the next guy. Paulus was just in the line of fire.

Of course section 13 further clarifies why it might not be called a foul.


Art. 3. Action of arm(s) and elbow(s) resulting from total body movement as in pivoting or movement of the ball incidental to feinting with it, releasing it, or moving it to prevent a held ball or loss of control shall not be considered excessive.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-02-2008, 11:44 PM
A couple times today you could hear the student section chanting "let them play" at the refs. One time they did it after a Miami foul. Neither team was able to get into any kind of groove because of all of the foul calls. I thought the refs over-reacted to the Paulus face-shot (it looked like it got broken from where I was sitting) and decided to impose their will on the game. This made for a pretty unsatisfying game all-together.

Also, can somebody tell me at what point in the half Kyle got elbowed? I don't remember seeing in from the student section?

The elbow came in the opening minutes. It was shown repeatedly on TV along with the take out of Paulus ( which left him really stunned and even a bit off balance for a bit) and the cut to Markie's cheekbone. I was really proud of our guys for never taking the bait.

I was at the game and could hardly wait to get home and replay several calls I couldn't believe. Slow motion only confirmed what I thought I saw. The calls were so bad one might wonder if the refs had money on the spread, bless their hearts.:rolleyes:

Love, Ima

vango
02-03-2008, 12:37 AM
Is it me or do we get in a scrum every game - some player takes a cheapy...

I'm starting to think we need an All-ACC Jerk Team...

My starting 5

Deron Washington VT
Ryan Reid FSU
Jack McClinton Miami (for his ear scratchin' cheapy 2 minutes into the game)
and I'm having trouble rounding out my 5

Should I choose:

Brandon Costner NCSU
Cliff "I can't stand Duke" Tucker Maryland
Greivis Vasquez Maryland (can't decide on this kid but I hate a hot dog)

or is there someone I'm missing (we haven't even gotten to BC who can have some gems....or UNC who may wanna give Hendo some grief....). I'm leaning towards Costner b/c what I perceive he is doing to his own team and Tucker b/c you say things like he did and you have to do better than 4 points against the team you can't stand.

MVP: Deron Washington

ice-9
02-03-2008, 01:33 AM
I hate to voice negativity after a win, but I can't help worrying a bit after the recent couple games.

Our D seems to be not as effective as before, allowing high-percentage shooting. It may be due to teams taking it down low against us, and today's sloppiness may be due to the quick turn-around of 2 games in 3 days. We are not forcing as many turn-overs in the last two games. And the early game struggles will be a big problem next wednesday. Our bench production dropped a lot in the past few games. We are still going 8 or 9 deep but I can't help noticing the starters accounting for most of the points. Nelson is playing like 38 minutes a game ( I don't have stat though).

I can't say that we are in our best shape right now. Going into Chapel Hill next Wednesy...... I am a bit worried. I would be sincerely glad to be proven wrong, though.


One hypothesis is that as a result of being focused on forcing turnovers on the perimeter against teams with effective big guys, when the opposing team does manage to get the ball in it usually results in a lay-up (whether by the guard/wing driving in or the post player), thus the high percentage. So there's a downside to our defensive strategy but as you can see by our winning margins so far it seems to be paying off.

cspan37421
02-03-2008, 08:33 AM
After watching the rest of the game on my DVR, it turned out the last few minutes were not cut off. I assumed they were because when I got home, I checked the score on ESPN.com and there was, IIRC, 2:42 to play, but the local ABC station was already showing local news. But the DVD I made of the game was complete (barely). So ESPN.com's scoreboard is delayed and not that close to real-time.

So anyway I did get to see the couple of hugs at the end of the game. I still believe that the physical play was excessive - and has been, against Duke, for several games now. It is as if the opposing teams are daring the refs to give Duke a call. It is getting to the point of being dangerous and someone has to rein it in.

The refs continuing to call fouls throughout the game didn't do anything to stem the physical play. Perhaps if one or more was intentional, and they called it, that would have gotten the message across.

The only one I thought might have been just an artifact or consequence of up-close defense was Paulus'.

greybeard
02-03-2008, 09:01 AM
Am I the only one who suspects that those guys are on the juice? No, I'm not kidding. Wish I were. I have never seen an entire team with such overmuscled bodies. Donna needs to stop standing behind her boys, aka after the football rumble, and start doing something constructive, like walking around with a bunch of cups.

The broken nose and cut cheek might not have been "thrown" bows, but this kind of play, high and dangerous elbows throughout, is not acceptible. Period.

This approach to sport should be embarassing but at the U it sells. That that approach has now invaded the basketball program might be okay in some other context, but not in the ACC. That red haired kid was told, "nobody who penetrates the lane gets a layup," and, when he was nearby, nobody did. He came down on top of guys like they do during the NBA playoffs, where that stuff shouldn't be tolerated either, but hey, who's really watching anymore anyway. The U has got no place in the ACC.

This was a warm-up for nothing. The league, after Brent told it like it was on the air repeatedly, will have to act. How? I thought that the red haired kid seemed like a regular kid, sent on a wrong mission by a wrong-headed coach. Next time we see that from a player, the refs got to throw one or both of them out. Ditto for the high elbows. In soccer there is something, I think like a "dangerous play" foul. It doesn't have to offend any particular rule, it's just a play that puts opponents in danger of serious injury. The refs ought to warn the coach, and, if it doesn't stop, start calling the game the way it ought to be. Sadly, in an effort to call it "evenly," the refs didn't come close; they let the U make this a football game with no helmets.

If they can't control runaway coaches, the league needs to find some refs who can. Somebody has got to do Donna's job!

YmoBeThere
02-03-2008, 09:14 AM
Perhaps we don't make use of the weight room enough? Either way GB I agree, with the exception of DeMarcus and a lesser extent Gerald, the contrast in muscularity is noteworty. Of course, it doesn't appear to have an impact on the game as skill is winning out.

DukieInBrasil
02-03-2008, 01:39 PM
I´ve been really pleased at how LT has improved his play since the ACC began. There must have been some undisclosed injury/health issue, b/c he is a different player now compared to earlier in the year.
I love how both Nelson and Paulus have really stepped up their offense in ACC play too.. I think they both subordinated their offense in the "pre" season to help form the chemistry and grittiness that this team is showing now. Kudos to both of them for such good leadership.

killerleft
02-03-2008, 02:25 PM
:rolleyes:
Is it me or do we get in a scrum every game - some player takes a cheapy...

I'm starting to think we need an All-ACC Jerk Team...

My starting 5

Deron Washington VT
Ryan Reid FSU
Jack McClinton Miami (for his ear scratchin' cheapy 2 minutes into the game)
and I'm having trouble rounding out my 5

Should I choose:

Brandon Costner NCSU
Cliff "I can't stand Duke" Tucker Maryland
Greivis Vasquez Maryland (can't decide on this kid but I hate a hot dog)

or is there someone I'm missing (we haven't even gotten to BC who can have some gems....or UNC who may wanna give Hendo some grief....). I'm leaning towards Costner b/c what I perceive he is doing to his own team and Tucker b/c you say things like he did and you have to do better than 4 points against the team you can't stand.

MVP: Deron Washington

I think our own Greg Paulus would make some "agitator" teams. He seems to be using all of Wojo's old tricks to get into the heads of opposing players. I particularly enjoyed his so-called "kick" that led to a big bucket against State. Wojo used his feet better than anybody I've ever seen. But I'm sure Wojo wouldn't teach Greg that stuff, would he?

GMR
02-03-2008, 02:35 PM
I agree with many posters that have commented about Lance Thomas' improvement over the past several games. Duke certainly needs improved play from Thomas given their pathetic interior defense.

However, I'm still mystified about several of Thomas' traits. He can't shoot 50% on layups. Why does he miss so many uncontested layups or shots from 5 feet or closer? Most high school players can make at least some of the shots he misses. McRoberts and Randolph were much the same way.

He needs to increase the strength in his hands and arms. I have noticed many plays this year where he has secured a rebound only to have the ball stripped from his hands with no foul called against the defender. He is overly aggressive in bodying up when defending an opponent 15-30' from the basket, and is not aggressive enough when trying to rebound.

He needs to improve his jumping ability. How many games this year have I heard about Duke's undersized front court? They have two guys starting that are 6'8" tall, and both weigh about 210-215 pounds. They are not that much undersized. I agree that they need to muscle and bulk up to minimize the pushing around they get in the paint. Thomas does not jump very high, does not go up strong for a board, and gets frequently stripped of the ball when he does grab it. Speaking of grabbing the ball, I believe Thomas, Singler, King and McClure all go up for a rebound and tip the ball versus going up strong to secure the ball. Only when the ball drops cleanly in their hands do they secure it.

All of these complaints come on the heels of improved inside play that I hope will continue. If improvement can be shown, I think Duke is a very tough out come March. The two biggest concerns I have are continued interior defense/rebounding, and continued high energy/enthused play.

GMR

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-03-2008, 02:48 PM
To me, that first half showed once again that the addition of these football schools has led to thuggery on the basketball court. Get rid of them I say, restore the 8 team ACC, restore classy play as the rule and not some quaint relic of the past, and let the college presidents find money somewhere else.

Oh, and the expansion it hasn't exactly brought up the quality of football in the conference. But I guess it brought in money, so that's all that matters, right? :confused:

The decline in appropriate behavior during a game and a brutal style of play took on a life of its own when Florida State was admitted to the ACC. The last three schools have brought rough play to a new level. All the "football schools," with the possible exception of Boston College, have very different academic standards despite what their TV presentations happily promote. The only advantage to thuggish play in the conference seems to be "preparation" for playing teams from other conferences characterized by rough, unsportsmanlike behaviors. Has such play helped increase the number of teams going to the NCAA and performing well? Some of our statisticians on the Board can answer that better than I.

devildeac
02-03-2008, 02:53 PM
Is it me or do we get in a scrum every game - some player takes a cheapy...

I'm starting to think we need an All-ACC Jerk Team...

My starting 5

Deron Washington VT
Ryan Reid FSU
Jack McClinton Miami (for his ear scratchin' cheapy 2 minutes into the game)
and I'm having trouble rounding out my 5

Should I choose:

Brandon Costner NCSU
Cliff "I can't stand Duke" Tucker Maryland
Greivis Vasquez Maryland (can't decide on this kid but I hate a hot dog)

or is there someone I'm missing (we haven't even gotten to BC who can have some gems....or UNC who may wanna give Hendo some grief....). I'm leaning towards Costner b/c what I perceive he is doing to his own team and Tucker b/c you say things like he did and you have to do better than 4 points against the team you can't stand.

MVP: Deron Washington

What "ear-scratching cheapy" are you referring to? Did I miss something or do you have it confused with the wicked elbow to Greg's face?

vango
02-03-2008, 05:22 PM
Couple of minutes into the game he walks by Singler, raises his arm and gives him an elbow then starts scratching his ear like it was an accident. They showed it a couple of times afterwards as a deomonstration of how "chippy" it was on the floor.

I've gotta give Singler some credit - his face is starting to look like that goalie from the 70's (Bruins maybe?) who used to put stitch marks on his mask everytime a shot on goal hit him in the mask - it was to signify where he would have gotten stitches before the beginning of the "goalie mask" (I think it was LaPlants idea after one too many broken noses - on came a welders mask). Guy IS, as suggested here - like IRON. But the guy is cool as a cucumber too. Amazing for a freshman - Greivis gave him something in the MD game and he could have taken it either way - this one was a shot at him and he just shrugged it off.....

vango
02-03-2008, 05:25 PM
:rolleyes:

I think our own Greg Paulus would make some "agitator" teams. He seems to be using all of Wojo's old tricks to get into the heads of opposing players. I particularly enjoyed his so-called "kick" that led to a big bucket against State. Wojo used his feet better than anybody I've ever seen. But I'm sure Wojo wouldn't teach Greg that stuff, would he?

Oh - I've said that for some time. You're right. Some call it gamesmanship. The biggest thing he does is when he walks in front of people making them stop or he walks in front of them and then when they're on his heels he stops and they have to stop and walk around him. He does that all of the time and I think it is why he gets an occasional elbow jab or shoulder into his as opposing players walk by...

DukieInBrasil
02-03-2008, 07:02 PM
Once again DeMarcus demonstrated his versatility, stuffing the stat sheet while also leading the team in scoring. He seems to have evened out his offensive output lately; previously he would score 20+ and then the next game he would score 7 or so. He is still scoring 20+ every other game but his "off" games are substantially higher, and subsequently his average continues to climb. Also, once again DN started off ice cold from the FT line but nailed 4 strait to get right back to serviceably tepid. His D was terrific and he picked up his game in the 2nd half to get Duke's motor going.
Paulus has also picked up his offense of late and was complemented well by Nolan; the two combined to drill 7 3s. However, neither of our PGs dished out many assists, which is strange for a game where we shot 40% from 3 against (primarily) zone D. In fact, as mentioned in another thread, we had good balance in assisting scores with Scheyer and Nelson combining for 7/0 a/to.
LT has returned from his hiatus in Ineffective Land to turn in yet another solid game. Lance won't be confused with a dangerous scorer anytime soon, but if he can stay active on the O-boards and toss in a few points, then he will be a valuable asset to the team.
Scheyer continues to be relatively quiet, though efficient, on O while vying for Nelson's mantle as a stat-stuffer.
The only real negative to the game was The Gerald's bewilderingly terrible performance on O, tho' he did grab several boards. He seemed unable to figure out the Miami zone and tossed up lots of bricks and turned the ball over frequently while being unable to assist other scores. For whatever reason, he just wasn't seeing the floor well. His ineffective FT shooting is getting to be problematic for a guy whose game is so well designed for getting to the line.

devildeac
02-03-2008, 08:05 PM
It's debatable whether it has really done even that all that well. The conference championship game hasn't exactly worked out all that great.

I'm not happy about the way the conference has gone. Not only have Miami and Virginia Tech brought the Big East overly physical style of play to the league, but the coaches at FSU, Clemson, and Georgia Tech have gone that route too. I guess if you can't compete on skill, you just recruit big strong guys who play rough to make up for it.

Minor quibbles. You left out BC with their 'chippy' play (remember Dudley's bumps and shoves with JJ?) I think they had one other overly physical player a year or two ago whose name I fortunately can't recall. I was at the Clemson game at CIS this year and have no real complaints about their style of play. Yea, they are beefy but I don't think they were dirty. I think Hewitt was that way before the football(cough, cough) schools entered the ACC. I remember several years ago some really hard fouls on our guys in CIS that got K livid early, earned him a T and he coached the 2nd half with a turtle neck and no sport coat/suit.