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grc5
02-02-2008, 05:52 PM
I didn't want to say this too prematurely, but I think now it's safe to say DeMarcus Nelson is a candidate for ACC POY. He may not have the offensive numbers like Sucko-T, but he makes up for it with his defense and leadership.

If the Tar Holes win this Wednesday, Hansblah has the inside track fro ACC POY. If Duke wins, I give the pole position to DMarc.

phaedrus
02-02-2008, 06:03 PM
Maybe I heard wrong, but I thought he said National POY, not ACC POY. Either way, if Nelson has a shot at ACC POY he also has a shot at NPOY because Hansbrough is going to be a frontrunner for both.

Uncle Drew
02-02-2008, 06:58 PM
As much as I'd like Nelson or any Duke player to bring home POY honors for the ACC or nationally I don't think Wednesdays game or the next matter too much. Hansblubblub is putting up really good numbers and has to most every game. Duke is so ballanced where several guys can give you 20+ points a night I think it hurts Nelson. Truth be told if you had a leadership stat Nelson would be dominating Tyler and probably anyone else. But so many writers are just going to look at the stat sheets and vote based on that. Let's also not forget Duke is hated and where a ton of these writers went to school. If the contest is even close you know where their loyalties are.

Highlander
02-02-2008, 08:36 PM
Let's also not forget Duke is hated and where a ton of these writers went to school. If the contest is even close you know where their loyalties are.

And if you need exhibit A, look at Shane Battier winning co-ACC POY with Joe Forte in 2001. Shane went on to win several NPOY awards. How can you be the best player in the nation, yet not even the best player in your conference?

Cameron
02-02-2008, 09:21 PM
And if you need exhibit A, look at Shane Battier winning co-ACC POY with Joe Forte in 2001.

Joe Forte....:D...................................... :D

Olympic Fan
02-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Actually, Battier was the consensus National Player of the Year winner in 2001 ... when he split ACC Player of the Year with Forte (who had a great season before he collapsed down the stretch).

But that's not the worst ... at least Battier got co-ACC POY.

in 1986, Dawkins won the Naismith Award as the nation's best player ... but lost ACC player of the year to Len Bias, who led the Terps to a sixth place ACC finish.

in 2002, Jason Williams was consensus National Player of the Year ... but lost ACC player of the year to Maryland's Juan Dixon.

Okay ... here's the deal -- Bias had better numbers than Dawkins, but Dawkins led Duke to the ACC title. Williams had better numbers than Dixon and led Duke to the ACC title (decided by the tournament; Maryland finished first in the regular season; the two teams split regular season matchups).

I could add 1991, when Christian Laettner, who led Duke to a first-place ACC finish and was a concensus second-team All-American. He lost ACC player of the year to Rodney Monroe, who led NC State to a tie for third place, and made a handful of 2nd and 3rd team A-A teams (not enough to be consensus second team).

I don't mention the national title in either Laettner's case or Dixon's since that was decided after the POY vote.

As for Nelson's chances of catching Hansbrough -- it's not farfatched, if -- and only if, Duke finishes ahead of the Heels in the standings and beats them at least once. A lot of voters go by conference-only stats and Nelson is averaging 18 a game in conference play ... not far behind Hansbrough at 20.3. Plus, he's winning recognition as the ACC's best defender (holding Jack McLinton to 10 points on 5-of-14 shooting didn't hurt) and the best rebounding guard in the league (although actually Clemson's Rivers has more rebounds).

Obviously, if the vote were held today, Hansbrough would be tough to beat ... but we've still got more than half the ACC season to play. If Duke clearly outclasses the Heels down the stretch, Nelson could steal it (after all, he's second in the league in steals!).

merry
02-02-2008, 09:55 PM
in 2002, Jason Williams was consensus National Player of the Year ... but lost ACC player of the year to Maryland's Juan Dixon.

Okay ... here's the deal -- Bias had better numbers than Dawkins, but Dawkins led Duke to the ACC title. Williams had better numbers than Dixon and led Duke to the ACC title (decided by the tournament; Maryland finished first in the regular season; the two teams split regular season matchups).


In 2002 Dixon put up better numbers than JWill if you looked only at ACC games. At least that's how my Terp friends explained it to me at the time - I haven't gone back & looked at the stats.

Uncle Drew
02-02-2008, 11:16 PM
And if you need exhibit A, look at Shane Battier winning co-ACC POY with Joe Forte in 2001. Shane went on to win several NPOY awards. How can you be the best player in the nation, yet not even the best player in your conference?



Great example H, and I'll take it back even farther than that. JR Reid was ACC player of the year, he and Danny Ferry were all ACC. Ferry was an all-American that year, JR wasn't. The national writers (at the time weren't as anti-Duke as they are now) saw Ferry had a better season than Reid. The Tobacco road guys went with the player from their alma mater.



"Okay ... here's the deal -- Bias had better numbers than Dawkins, but Dawkins led Duke to the ACC title. Williams had better numbers than Dixon and led Duke to the ACC title (decided by the tournament; Maryland finished first in the regular season; the two teams split regular season matchups)."


As awesome as Johnny was that year, I think he lost out on POY nationally to Walter Berry. Johnny had a MUCH better team around him than Bias did. Alarie was all-ACC that year. Bias put up 40 on Duke in Cameron in a losing effort that year, and he was double or tripple teamed every time he touched the ball. I'm not saying he was playing with circus midgets, but Bias almost single handedly gave UNC their first loss at the Dean Dome that year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't the all-ACC team announced the week before the ACC tourney each year? If true what a player does in the tourney don't matter.

ugadevil
02-02-2008, 11:23 PM
I'd say DeMarcus has put himself on the All ACC First Team through this point of the season. I would hope that he'd be given some consideration for POY, just because of his great all around game. However, what are the odds that he'll be named as an All-American? I think it'd be great for him, especially with how hard he's worked and been able to improve during his career at Duke.

sagegrouse
02-02-2008, 11:52 PM
And if you need exhibit A, look at Shane Battier winning co-ACC POY with Joe Forte in 2001. Shane went on to win several NPOY awards. How can you be the best player in the nation, yet not even the best player in your conference?

Kevin Love was NPOY in high school but only co-POY in the state of Oregon with our man Kyle.

Of course, Kyle's team beat Kevin's for the state championship.

sagegrouse

pete
02-03-2008, 12:12 AM
I was curious since we're talking about postseason awards and the like. Markie leads this team in points, rebounds,steals and is second in assists. Has there ever been a player in duke history to lead in these four major categories and who in recent memory has led the team in three of these categories? I went back five years to the 2002-03 season and have not found anybody yet who led in at least three of these categories. If Markie can end the season leading the team in three of these categories I think that would be an amazing feat and he should be recognized as one of the best all-around basketball players in Duke history and receive numerous postseason honors.

pete
02-03-2008, 12:50 AM
For anybody interested I went back 30 years in the Duke statistical database which I must say is very user friendly. What I found was that there were five players who led the team in the three areas I mentioned but nobody in all four areas. So if Markie keeps his pace up he will be in elite company.

Jim Sparnakel 1976-77 & 1977-1978 Assists/Steals/Points

Vince Taylor 1981-82 Rebounds/Steals/Points

Danny Ferry 1986 -87 Assists/Rebounds/Points

Christian Laettner 1990 -91 Rebounds/Steals/Points

Grant Hill 1993-94 Assists/Steals/Points

Sidenote - There were quite a few players who led the team in Points/Rebounds/Blocks

Bostondevil
02-03-2008, 01:25 AM
As awesome as Johnny was that year, I think he lost out on POY nationally to Walter Berry. Johnny had a MUCH better team around him than Bias did. Alarie was all-ACC that year. Bias put up 40 on Duke in Cameron in a losing effort that year, and he was double or tripple teamed every time he touched the ball. I'm not saying he was playing with circus midgets, but Bias almost single handedly gave UNC their first loss at the Dean Dome that year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But isn't the all-ACC team announced the week before the ACC tourney each year? If true what a player does in the tourney don't matter.

Johnny won one NPOY, the aforementioned Naismith, Berry took the others.

Bias was a beast and I've never felt Johnny was jobbed out of ACC POY. I bet Johnny himself wouldn't argue with the results.

When I'm feeling holier than thou, I tell my Maryland fan friends that I've seen the crowd at CIS give standing ovations to both Len Bias and Juan Dixon, would they ever return the favor for truly great play by a Dukie? (Juan Dixon got a standing ovation when he came to Duke for a charity basketball game the summer after leading Maryland to the national title.)

Kimist
02-03-2008, 03:04 AM
Most impartial observers should see that Nelson has a legitimate shot at ACC POY. Unfortunately, HansTravel gets a lot of press and is, of course, vital to the success of the smurfs.

From my Duke-biased viewpoint, I see Nelson as being a far more multi-dimensional player and therefore valuable to Duke this season. His package also includes a large element of senior leadership. HansTravel's game is for the most part get the ball, knock somebody over, wait for the foul call, and make a free throw. (Let's not forget how he can also flop into the cheap seats whenever someone sneezes, and gets frequent breaks looking for contact lenses.;)) Somewhat seriously, I just do not see HansTravel's game as well-rounded as that of Nelson.

I agree that a large part of the selection process will be determined by the head-to-head play of Duke/unc, and also to the overall success of the teams the remainder of the current season. BUT there is definitely a Duke bias existent in the area press, and (so far) HT seems to get a lot more press coverage.

I do think comparisons to the Dawkins years, and similar, are at least a bit out of place now as the current "Duke hate" and/or ESPN bias scenarios were not nearly as strong two decades ago. It is now an uphill climb for any Duke player or coach to be considered for regional/national honors.

k

speedevil
02-03-2008, 04:12 AM
didnt chris get first team all acc and 2nd or 3rd team all american? i think demarcus can get both like chris

balkan boy
02-03-2008, 06:28 AM
I don't have a problem with the picks of Rodney Monroe and Len Bias as ACC players of the year in 1991 and 1986, respectively, over Laettner and Dawkins.

Monroe was devastating in his senior year, averaging 27 pts a game; god, i loved watching him play and shoot. And i think Bias average 23 or so in 1986. I was in high school in Richmond at the time and everyone on the playground followed their turnaround jumpers with a yell of, "Bias!! Turnaround J!" Loved to watch him play too.

A good case could be made for Laettner and Dawkins, but Monroe and Bias had great years.

I do disagree with Kimist's statement below:
"I do think comparisons to the Dawkins years, and similar, are at least a bit out of place now as the current "Duke hate" and/or ESPN bias scenarios were not nearly as strong two decades ago. It is now an uphill climb for any Duke player or coach to be considered for regional/national honors."

Duke hate certainly exists but I imagine the heavy media focus on Duke that comes with the hatred mostly increases the chances of Duke players winning national awards. The hatred didn't keep JJ from sweeping most National Player of the Year awards...

kydevil
02-03-2008, 10:49 AM
In 2002 Dixon put up better numbers than JWill if you looked only at ACC games. At least that's how my Terp friends explained it to me at the time - I haven't gone back & looked at the stats.

You have Terp friends???? :eek:

Jwill won the Naismith and Wooden that year right?

1Devil
02-03-2008, 11:59 AM
Regardless of POY, Nelson is a lock for first-team All-ACC. That's going to be great and very well-deserved.

Unless Duke comes unhinged, I would expect Henderson and Singler to make second team. Maybe Paulus on the third team if he keeps up his recent play.

Indoor66
02-03-2008, 12:32 PM
Regardless of POY, Nelson is a lock for first-team All-ACC. That's going to be great and very well-deserved.

Unless Duke comes unhinged, I would expect Henderson and Singler to make second team. Maybe Paulus on the third team if he keeps up his recent play.

i believe Paulus will finish above anyone on this team except Nelson when the vote for All ACC takes place.