Could Zoubek be the Final Piece to this team?

[dukelion]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Zoubs will come back an average a double double but if he comes back healthy (any day now I assume) and can give this team 6-8 quality minutes they might very well be on their way to a final four.

Clealry our main (only?) weakness is our post defense against bigger teams. Booker and Osby had their way in the first half of their games against us but slowed considerably in the second halves as our depth wore them down.

If Zoubs can simply provide some defense and rebounding against these bigger teams I would think we would improve drmatically. Specifically, if he can provide 4-5 first half minutes against the bigger bodies it would go a long way in securing potential victories against the likes of UCLA, Kansas and UNC.

Providing he's healthy I think it's fairly realistic to think that Zoubek can still help this team significantly this season.

[Clipsfan]

There is no doubt that Zoubek can help the team, especially with rebounding. However, I don't know that he's the final piece given that our offensive success tends to come from spreading the court and driving and kicking. It works because we have 4-5 3 point threats on the floor most times, as well as multiple guys who can drive. Zoubs changes that dynamic.

[wilson]

There is no doubt that Zoubek can help the team, especially with rebounding. However, I don't know that he's the final piece given that our offensive success tends to come from spreading the court and driving and kicking. It works because we have 4-5 3 point threats on the floor most times, as well as multiple guys who can drive. Zoubs changes that dynamic.

Good point, but presumably, better interior defense should take some pressure off of the help-side guys and potentially lead into the transition game.

[BlueDevilJay]

I'd say if Zoubek can become the kind of contributor that Casey Sanders did a few years back, he could DEF be the final piece of the puzzle. I find them both very similar in how "clumsy" they seem to be at times with the ball, but I also remember Casey correcting that and becoming a good "pass catcher" so to speak, and instantly gave Duke somewhat of an inside threat when he was on the floor. Zoubek, with a lot of work, can become a vital part of how far this years team goes, and I personally do not rule out an ACC regular season, tournament, and even a NC out of this team, especially if he is able to start delivering in the post.

[CDu]

There is no doubt that Zoubek can help the team, especially with rebounding. However, I don't know that he's the final piece given that our offensive success tends to come from spreading the court and driving and kicking. It works because we have 4-5 3 point threats on the floor most times, as well as multiple guys who can drive. Zoubs changes that dynamic.

Agreed. Moreover, I'm not entirely convinced that he'd be much help defensively against athletic, talented big guys. Maybe a bit, but I'd imagine Booker, Osby, Gist, etc, would have their way with him. Injuries have just slowed his development, and he was a bit of a project to begin with.

I think the biggest thing he will add is the ability to be a functional body on the floor for 5-6 minutes if foul trouble arises. And that's not an insignificant factor. If he can just not be completely woeful on the floor for 5-6 minutes, it can do wonders for keeping Thomas and Singler out of foul trouble. Anything more than that, at least for this year, I think is going to be a bonus.

Hopefully, he can have a healthy rest of the season, a strong/productive/healthy offseason, and be more of an impact next year.

[mddukefan]

dukelion,

I'd have to agree with your comments. Zoubek would be able to help out in situatiosn like we encountered with Clemson and Maryland down low. Just the fact that we would have 5 more fouls to use thin the post would help.

I really felt this weekend he could have been somewhat of a factor on Osby, by just standing straight up. I'm not saying he would have blocked any shots but he could at least interrupt some of them. Hopefully he can get back soon and contribute in those types of situations. I'm interested in seeing how he could help against Maryland the second time around if he can get healthy.

[freedevil]

Like CDu pointed out, if Zoubek were to be the "final piece" would require him to actually be a strong interior defender. He's shown very tiny flashes of being capable, but he just fouls way too often for me to think he will put this team over the top.

[Clipsfan]

Like CDu pointed out, if Zoubek were to be the "final piece" would require him to actually be a strong interior defender. He's shown very tiny flashes of being capable, but he just fouls way too often for me to think he will put this team over the top.

I think that he gets jobbed by the refs at times. On replay, he's actually fairly good at getting ball when he tries to block shots, but because the actions can look awkward at times I think that the refs assume that he isn't able to defend without fouling. I don't think that he's getting the appropriate credit in this thread for his actual defensive ability, as he has been able to effectively shut down opposing players at times (such as Hans last year). My trepidation at this time is that his offense/strength have been hampered by his injuries and that our offensive flow might suffer as a result when he's in the game, even as our defense improves.

[wilson]

I think that he gets jobbed by the refs at times. On replay, he's actually fairly good at getting ball when he tries to block shots, but because the actions can look awkward at times I think that the refs assume that he isn't able to defend without fouling. I don't think that he's getting the appropriate credit in this thread for his actual defensive ability, as he has been able to effectively shut down opposing players at times (such as Hans last year). My trepidation at this time is that his offense/strength have been hampered by his injuries and that our offensive flow might suffer as a result when he's in the game, even as our defense improves.

My previous comment seems to have been ignored (plus I'm getting really close to 1000;))...I agree with this assessment of BZ's defensive ability, and I think that if he can provide a presence down low, it could free up help-side defenders and lead to some good outlet looks and transition offense.

[mddukefan]

Does anyone know what the deal is with his situation right now? We are passed the 1-3 week estimate we heard about when his injury first happened. From what i've seen on TV it seems like he is still wearing the boot on the sideline.

[CDu]

I think that he gets jobbed by the refs at times. On replay, he's actually fairly good at getting ball when he tries to block shots, but because the actions can look awkward at times I think that the refs assume that he isn't able to defend without fouling. I don't think that he's getting the appropriate credit in this thread for his actual defensive ability, as he has been able to effectively shut down opposing players at times (such as Hans last year). My trepidation at this time is that his offense/strength have been hampered by his injuries and that our offensive flow might suffer as a result when he's in the game, even as our defense improves.

I won't really debate whether or not he's actually making good plays and is just getting jobbed, as it doesn't really make a difference. The point is that he's getting called for those fouls, and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Therefore, the defense isn't improving with him out there in terms of results. And I don't believe he's been subjected to too many strong big men this year (if any). I'd be very surprised if he's faced any of the caliber of Clemson's or Maryland's bigs.

I'm not saying he's not useful. I just think that unfortunately he's a liability on both ends right now. But he still has value in that he can be used sub minutes in cases of foul trouble.

[vango]

Seems to me he does positive things when he is in the game %-wise. Just seems as if he is struggling. He does rack up TO's and PF's.

So far this year:

149 total minutes
51 points scored
44 rebounds

Season avg's:

11.7 minutes per game (started 2)
4.3 points per game
3.7 rebounds per game

Those are productive minutes to me....

[Jumbo]

There is a real possibility that Zoubs won't be back this year. As it is, I see him more as a functional body than a missing piece. Much of what has led to Duke's outstanding play -- spreading the floor, switching on every screen, etc. -- doesn't fit well with Brian's skill set, particularly if his mobility is even more limited by his foot.

[mpj96]

There is a real possibility that Zoubs won't be back this year.

Did I miss an update to his status? Is his foot injury likely to take that long to heal?

[jjasper0729]

Did I miss an update to his status? Is his foot injury likely to take that long to heal?

In the pregame for the VT game, there was a courtside interview with Zoubek by Matthew Laurence. BZ indicated that a couple of days earlier, they had done a new x-ray and the doctors didn't quite like what they were seeing. He had been doing some light practicing but at that point, they had him off of the foot (indefinitely was implied) while he could do cardio/lifting exercises to stay in shape but no real practicing. In that courtside interview, he didn't give an indication as to when he'd be back to practice, much less in a game.

[mpj96]

Thanks for the update. I somehow missed that. Its a shame to hear that it will be longer than expected. Zoubs seems like a great kid. Even though it is hard to imagine liking our team more than I have since the UVA game, Zoubs will definitely be missed. I suspect we will particularly miss him during the UNC game with their big, deep frontcourt.

[OldSchool]

I'm not saying he's not useful. I just think that unfortunately he's a liability on both ends right now. But he still has value in that he can be used sub minutes in cases of foul trouble.

Maybe I was just being too optimistic, but watching his play just before the injury, he seemed to be finally getting more comfortable out on the floor and starting to turn a corner. I thought he could develop into a consistent good 15 minutes a game, which of course would be an enormous help against certain teams. However, the longer he is out, the harder it's going to be to get himself back up to the point of being valuable this year for our postseason run. Get well soon, Z!

[tux]

Maybe I was just being too optimistic, but watching his play just before the injury, he seemed to be finally getting more comfortable out on the floor and starting to turn a corner. I thought he could develop into a consistent good 15 minutes a game, which of course would be an enormous help against certain teams. However, the longer he is out, the harder it's going to be to get himself back up to the point of being valuable this year for our postseason run. Get well soon, Z!

Yeah, it seemed like he was just getting into decent BB shape when this last injury occurred. If he makes it back, I see him playing limited minutes, maybe a little more when the match-ups are favorable. I'm not sure if the summer injury set him back a ton or not, but it seems like he was an average defender in many of the early games: if he managed to not foul, he would have a hard time recovering for the rebound with smaller but quicker players beating him on the boards. Having a 7-footer is a nice option when guys are in foul trouble, but I just don't see him giving us a lot this year. It's hard for the big guys to get in shape after sitting this long.

[pamtar]

IMO, no. At least not this year.

Thats a damn good question though. I didn't really worry about the team when he got hurt, but know that you mention it he would add something. Next year I think he will be a factor - especially if he gets healthy enough to get some minutes towards the end of this year.

[Devilsfan]

NO!!!!

[greybeard]

Z broke the outside bone in his foot through and through in 3 places. They hooked the bone back together with three screws. If doctors don't like what they're seeing in pictures, one must either assume that the foot was bothering Z or they were monitoring a dicey situation. In either case, based upon that study posted here a while back done by a Duke resident with regard to bone density and the ability to predict fifth metatarsol breaks, I feel for the young guy. I am also impressed by K and his staff.

I don't expect that Z to be back this year. I agree that if he is, he could provide a useful 5-6 minutes, and, if he hits the floor on a "good" day, could make a contribution, perhaps more than some think.

BTW, the way Maryland is seeing him now, nobody is going to shut Osby down. His receptions seem unstoppable and leave him in places that give him easy finishing options. Better receiver than Hansbrough, though not nearly as versatile or effective a finisher. If he had another year, . . . .

[BigTedder]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Zoubs will come back an average a double double but if he comes back healthy (any day now I assume) and can give this team 6-8 quality minutes they might very well be on their way to a final four.

Clealry our main (only?) weakness is our post defense against bigger teams. Booker and Osby had their way in the first half of their games against us but slowed considerably in the second halves as our depth wore them down.

If Zoubs can simply provide some defense and rebounding against these bigger teams I would think we would improve drmatically. Specifically, if he can provide 4-5 first half minutes against the bigger bodies it would go a long way in securing potential victories against the likes of UCLA, Kansas and UNC.

Providing he's healthy I think it's fairly realistic to think that Zoubek can still help this team significantly this season.

Unfortunately, we as fans (in general, myself included) are "what have you done for me lately's" Support comes with/from production. I think he can't hurt us...we could use the rebounding. I feel for the kid, I know he tries and works so hard, he doesnt deserve the criticism he gets (I'm guilty of it too). Paulus struggled for a few games and people threatened to vote him off the island. Coack K knows how to help Zoubs improve, he is obviously a great player or K wouldnt have recruited him. With him I think we CAN cut down the nets. So hit the weightroom in the break, and work on the longball....cant have Hibbert showin up centers' lack of 3 ability..haha

[Got_Duke]

man we sure could use a Shelden Williams (a quicker, more athletic version given Duke's 'new' offense) or a Carlos Boozer or an Elton Brand . . .

but no doubt would Zoubek HELP, as far as being THE piece ... i'm not sure, but his 7'1" frame could bang with some bodies

remember the Duke-Carolina games last year . . . . Zoubek as a freshman played quite well against Hansbrough

[mgtr]

I don't want Zoubek to come back too early, but when he does he will have an impact. He can run the floor, he can clog up the middle and block a few shots. He doesn't need to score, in my book. If he can give us 10-12 tough minutes in the middle, he will have done a lot.
Another way to look at it is that he represents five fouls in the middle which we don't currently have.

[Duke79UNLV77]

If he were to get healthy and round back into shape, I think Z vould be a valuable asset this year. It's often not pretty, but he is productive. I'm not advocating that he play major starter minutes at this point and I know projecting numbers isn't this simple, but if you multiply his 11+ minutes per game times 3, he would be averaging 13 points and 11 rebounds per game. He has been efficient in his minutes played, even though he was behind the curve at the start of the year from his 1st injury.

He also has improved in areas where he was a real liability as a freshman. Last year, he had 6 assists to 37 turnovers. Wow. This year, he has 7 assists to 12 turnovers, fairly respectable for a true center.

As far as where he could fit into the puzzle, the only time other teams have put real runs on us has been when they have dominated us on the boards. You can't teach 7'1". Even against Pitt, Z had 3 rebounds in 6 minutes.

Z also can help us defend true post scorers. Not a lot of teams have dominant post scorers, but some of the true national contenders do. I do think Z's height gave Hansblabla some problems last year. As one other measurable, Z already has as many blocks this year as last year.

[Carlos]

Maybe I was just being too optimistic, but watching his play just before the injury, he seemed to be finally getting more comfortable out on the floor and starting to turn a corner. I thought he could develop into a consistent good 15 minutes a game, which of course would be an enormous help against certain teams. However, the longer he is out, the harder it's going to be to get himself back up to the point of being valuable this year for our postseason run. Get well soon, Z!

His play just before the injury was a 4 point performance against Cornell, a mediocre performance against Pitt, and a decent game against a 9-10 Albany team.

Zoub's a better player than he was last year and he's clearly developing, but he's not nearly "the final piece" to this team.

Besides, the team has been doing remarkably well with the pieces they have. For the most part, Duke has really forced other teams to adapt to the small ball style that the Devils are playing. Maryland, with Gist, Osby, Neal, and Walker combining for 79 out of 80 PF & C minutes, is an exception to the way things have been going. But if you look at the Clemson game, their big player rotation of Booker, Mays, Sykes, and Grant played 68 minutes out of 80 minutes. In their next game against WFU they combined for 84 out of 85 minutes (overtime game). In other close games such as the loss to Charlotte they played 88 out of 90 minutes (2 overtimes). Against UNC it was 80 out of 80 minutes.

It's not just Clemson either. Other teams such as FSU and VaTech have gone to smaller lineups against Duke as well. (Those stats can be somewhat misleading because the Hokies were without Jeff Allen, one of their primary frontcourt players, and the Seminoles Ryan Reid was playing his first game back after a 9-game suspension.)

I think one of the reasons Duke is so successful in forcing other teams to adapt to their style is that the Devils have a team that can really place a lot of pressure on a defense because guys like Nelson and Henderson can really attack the rim. So when Duke is going ultra small with Singler, Nelson, Henderson, Scheyer, and Smith/Paulus teams are faced with trying to defend either Nelson or Henderson with a player who is not comfortable defending away from the basket.

It's much easier to defend a guy who is smaller if all he's going to do is shoot jump shots. It's the guy who can do both who makes life really tough for the bigger defender. That's why, after watching Trevor Booker's futile efforts to check Gerald Henderson, Clemson switched him over to guarding Scheyer. And then after watching the team struggle with that alignment the Tigers gave up and played only one big man.

The other component of this is that Henderson and Nelson are both such physical players that they can defend larger guys. The big fear about going small is that while you gain an advantage on offense you give up one on defense. The odds are against the approach because generally speaking, it's easier to score from close to the basket with a big guy than to score from far away with the small guy. But Duke isn't relying on jumpers on offense and they're not struggling to defend the interior as much as one would expect so the results have been even better than one would anticipate.

[GopherBlue]

If BZ is out for the season, what are the possibilities for a medical redshirt year? Is there a formal cut-off date or # of games played for redshirt eligibility?

If he is to be out much longer, or is limited upon his return, it may be best for BZ and for the team to fully-heal and begin to work toward next year (if redshirt is an option).

[greybeard]

Besides, the team has been doing remarkably well with the pieces they have. For the most part, Duke has really forced other teams to adapt to the small ball style that the Devils are playing. Maryland, with Gist, Osby, Neal, and Walker combining for 79 out of 80 PF & C minutes, is an exception to the way things have been going. But if you look at the Clemson game, their big player rotation of Booker, Mays, Sykes, and Grant played 68 minutes out of 80 minutes. In their next game against WFU they combined for 84 out of 85 minutes (overtime game). In other close games such as the loss to Charlotte they played 88 out of 90 minutes (2 overtimes). Against UNC it was 80 out of 80 minutes.

It's not just Clemson either. Other teams such as FSU and VaTech have gone to smaller lineups against Duke as well. (Those stats can be somewhat misleading because the Hokies were without Jeff Allen, one of their primary frontcourt players, and the Seminoles Ryan Reid was playing his first game back after a 9-game suspension.)

I think one of the reasons Duke is so successful in forcing other teams to adapt to their style is that the Devils have a team that can really place a lot of pressure on a defense because guys like Nelson and Henderson can really attack the rim. So when Duke is going ultra small with Singler, Nelson, Henderson, Scheyer, and Smith/Paulus teams are faced with trying to defend either Nelson or Henderson with a player who is not comfortable defending away from the basket.

It's much easier to defend a guy who is smaller if all he's going to do is shoot jump shots. It's the guy who can do both who makes life really tough for the bigger defender. That's why, after watching Trevor Booker's futile efforts to check Gerald Henderson, Clemson switched him over to guarding Scheyer. And then after watching the team struggle with that alignment the Tigers gave up and played only one big man.

The other component of this is that Henderson and Nelson are both such physical players that they can defend larger guys. The big fear about going small is that while you gain an advantage on offense you give up one on defense. The odds are against the approach because generally speaking, it's easier to score from close to the basket with a big guy than to score from far away with the small guy. But Duke isn't relying on jumpers on offense and they're not struggling to defend the interior as much as one would expect so the results have been even better than one would anticipate.

Tight!! POD, imo.

One might add that K and his assistants have done an exceptional job. Much has been changed this year that seems to suit the talent and basketball perspectives of the players on hand quite well. This flexibility showed by an older coach of K's stature is but another in a long list of stellar qualities that kids who chose to play for the guy get to understand and perhaps incorporate into themselves.

Basketball under K has to be the best learning experience Duke has to offer, which, given Duke's stature in the community of American universities, is saying something.

[IStillHateJimBain]

Zoubek's biggest impact on the team if he returns would be keeping Kyle Singler out of foul trouble. If he can spend a few fouls without costing the team too much in other areas such as offensive flow, it could allow Singler to to full speed down the stretch and not be sitting next to the coaches and the walk-ons at crunch time. I'm skeptical of Zoubek's return to anything resembling effectiveness this year. A big man with foot problems? Just ask Bill Walton.

[Classof06]

I'm not as up to date on Zoubek's injury as some of you but I think Brian would definitely help Duke's cause if he was able to return this year. Duke has played big teams (New Mexico State, Wisconsin, Clemson, Maryland) but they haven't played any elite big teams (UNC, Kansas, UCLA). I think it's safe to say the latter four schools I mentioned have more talent down low that the first four teams I mentioned.

I think for Duke to beat those elite teams, they'll need about 10-15 minutes from Brian. I think Duke can win on 2/6 without Brian but if it takes 4 games to get to a final 4, I don't see Duke making it through all those games without Zoubek getting some minutes. At this point in the season, it's unrealistic to expect consistent offensive production from Brian upon his return. But he is 5 fouls that Duke needs right now, especially when his fouls would most likely help keep Singler in the game.

[ArtVandelay]

I'm not sure that Zoubek contributes much as a mere "5 extra fouls" unless he can provide superior post defense to what we already have. I agree that we need someone other than Kyle and Lance guarding bigs - both for foul reasons AND because I think it ultimately runs the risk of getting Kyle banged up and negatively impacting his offensive game. However, if it's just the fouls, then McClue and TK surely can go in there and commit some fouls. Neither of these guys have had enough run to get in any sort of foul trouble. Really what it comes down to is having someone with some size to go in and mix it up on defense and actually be EFFECTIVE - and if he fouls out, so be it. To say that Z is just 5 extra fouls overlooks the fact that we can send other guys out there to commit fouls. Whether or not Z could actually be effective against superior post players like Hans or Love is highly questionable, IMO.

Also, note that fouling Hansborough is a dicey propositon. Dude can shoot FTs and scores a lot of points on the line. We need someone who can make him life slightly tougher WITHOUT fouling. This, more than anything, is why Big Z would help. If nothing else, he presents a bit more of an obstacle to get in Tyler's way as he propelled himself toward the rim with reckless abandon.

[greybeard]

I'm not sure that Zoubek contributes much as a mere "5 extra fouls" unless he can provide superior post defense to what we already have. I agree that we need someone other than Kyle and Lance guarding bigs - both for foul reasons AND because I think it ultimately runs the risk of getting Kyle banged up and negatively impacting his offensive game. However, if it's just the fouls, then McClue and TK surely can go in there and commit some fouls. Neither of these guys have had enough run to get in any sort of foul trouble. Really what it comes down to is having someone with some size to go in and mix it up on defense and actually be EFFECTIVE - and if he fouls out, so be it. To say that Z is just 5 extra fouls overlooks the fact that we can send other guys out there to commit fouls. Whether or not Z could actually be effective against superior post players like Hans or Love is highly questionable, IMO.

Also, note that fouling Hansborough is a dicey propositon. Dude can shoot FTs and scores a lot of points on the line. We need someone who can make him life slightly tougher WITHOUT fouling. This, more than anything, is why Big Z would help. If nothing else, he presents a bit more of an obstacle to get in Tyler's way as he propelled himself toward the rim with reckless abandon.

A really healthy Zoubek would give Hansborough and Love problems that others on Duke cannot present, imo. The game is not that difficult; Z is a legit 7'1" and is clever. Hansborough and Love are adapt at getting someone to extend up prematurally. If Z doesn't, they have got to contend with a lot more than they are used to. Then, if he choses which way to make them go, which would be towards the middle if you ask me, then, help can confine them and Z has a decent chance of swating shots away or disrupting them. I would love to see that. Love and Hman would not, I am guessing.

This is quite a team when we are sitting here having a legit conversation of whether a 7 footer with Z's skill base and mind could meaningfully contribute, if fully able to go. Wow.

[dukestheheat]

and he was ambulating fairly well for what's he's been through. watching his gait i didn't get worried that he wouldn't come back at all or anything like that. he didn't look bad but he also didn't look 100% if ya know what i mean.

get better Zoubs and come back soon!

dth.

[Devilsfan]

I have been a critic of his play but watching him yesterday I couldn't have been happier for him. He really stepped up his game. He exhibited a toughness I haven't noticed before and the team seemed to rally around his play. I know about his injuries but I think he finally has arrived as an ACC player.

[mgtr]

If Zoubek and Henderson can each give a solid 15 minutes per game, we should be in pretty good shape. Even though CBS kept me from seeing most of the second half last night (grrrr!), from what I read Zoubek did a real nice job. That is great news for him and for the team.

[wilko]

Like you I WANT this to be a big beginning of good things for Brian.

Zoubek worked hard and made things happen on the floor last nite. Points rebounds being generally active.. It was great to see the last few possessions of the 2nd work to get Brian looks. Thats what he needs and he got it!

But St Johns had no one of real size to challenge, bump, grid and push him.

Its certainly a darn good game for him. One I hope he gain build on and gain confidence from. But I would be hesitant to say hes arrived until in can do that 3x's in a row in league play.

I certainly hope he can and will be rooting for him to continue working and improving.

[cspan37421]

It seems to me that if Zoubek is capable of playing, that's just one more weapon in our arsenal to send out there when appropriate for the matchup. He's probably more effective for some situations over others. We just need to dial in the right mix of defense, shooting, and rebounding for a particular opponent's lineup. Like Pearl said of his UT team, we somtimes rely a bit too much on the 3 ball. But if Henderson can be healthy, we've got a respectable midrange game, we've got driving abiltiy with DeMarcus; we've got all-around game in Singler, and sometimes 3-ball from Paulus et al. If Zoubek can play, I like our ability for second chance points. It seems to me our rebounding has really improved of late, and that's critical. FT shooting was good against St. Johns (at least, from what I saw before CBS cut away), and that's been subpar. The only major concern I have is with defensive speed. We were really slow early against SJ, both against drives (strangely SJ guards often pulled out after they got even with GP or NS), and we were slow getting back in transition. If Zoubek can block some shots, it might help guarding against driving layups in half-court offense.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think this team is pretty well pieced together, I'm not sure there really is a "last piece" out there that we can see. One thing I noticed before his injury, was Zoubek's passing. I was really impressed with some of his plays getting the ball back out to the perimeter or in to a driving player. That being said, we were doing a real nice job without him. I think this team has a very good ability to overcome their physical weaknesses.
My vote for the last piece would be free throw shooting. If we can get our free throws to fall even 1/3rd more often, we will put ourselves in better chances to win.

[Verga3]

Zoubek could well be the missing piece. I agree that it gives us some game and situation matchup flexibility with Brian back in the mix. I hope we can be patient with his post-recovery process. It's undeniably difficult to come back from an injury and step back in at this level without some hiccups along the way.

He is a great kid and he also enhances our team chemistry, as everyone wants him to be successful. Having an improved and fit (and that's coming with more PT) 7-footer in the middle as a "goalkeeper" in some situations can really free up the defense to use a ratchted up gamble-help defensive mindset that could add to our turnover to transition opportunities, playing into our strength. It's also going to help to have that kind of body and presence against UNC and other "big" teams as we get into March.

I'm very happy for Brian and am confident of his abilities to make us better this year....and even more so next.

[dukeblue1215]

He could be great for this team mainly because of his height. He's a good player but im pretty sure he's the tallest player in the acc. He can help with some areas we've been fairly weak at so far this season such as rebounding, blocking shots, and he can provide some low post scoring similar to what LT does

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

While I was watching the basketball game yesterday, one of Coach Cutcliffe's comments came to mind. He was speaking of recruiting big players for the line.... 6'5" and taller, 300 lbs. +/-. He said he wasn't going to recruit a big guy who wasn't agile or couldn't bend over. Big guys would have to be strong and fast on their feet. These same characteristics seem to be applicable for basketball recruiting as well. It would be delightful to sign a guy who is not only tall, but also is agile and strong.

I love seeing Brian getting better and better, but I think his agility and relative lack of strength are challenges for him to deal with.....

[Dbluedevils1530]

He plays great Defense. Hopefully he is the final peace to the team which could get us to the final four.

[dukestheheat]

I think this team is pretty well pieced together, I'm not sure there really is a "last piece" out there that we can see. One thing I noticed before his injury, was Zoubek's passing. I was really impressed with some of his plays getting the ball back out to the perimeter or in to a driving player. That being said, we were doing a real nice job without him. I think this team has a very good ability to overcome their physical weaknesses.
My vote for the last piece would be free throw shooting. If we can get our free throws to fall even 1/3rd more often, we will put ourselves in better chances to win.

BINGO! I'd say 'much better chances to win'.......I don't see why we can't do that and I do expect this to happen. We've shown we can take punches from the other team (we have literally shown this) and also get waaay outrebounded and outscored in the paint, and still win.

We need some dedicated time on free throw stuff. We can do this! Teams are going to put us up there in the NCAA's and I'd like nothing more than to see the team go into the 80% range on free throws for that tourney. That gives us, on average, about 3 more points per game and if you apply that percentage to our season thus far, we win the games versus Miami and also Pittsburgh.

dth.

[Dukefan4Life]

After seeing the big Z play tonight. i dont understand why, when he is in the game we dont run zone and nothing but zone. we would use his size to our advatage that way.

[ChrisP]

Thought Z looked pretty good when he was in there. And...let's face it, I don't know that he was in there long enough to really judge him anyway. Five minutes? I certainly didn't see anything AWFUL that would cause him to get yanked. I know that one GT dude threw down a vicious dunk over Z, but that was just a really amazing, athletic play. Anyway, I was kinda scratching my head as to why he didn't get a few more minutes - especially toward the end of the game....

[Duvall]

Anyway, I was kinda scratching my head as to why he didn't get a few more minutes - especially toward the end of the game....

Towards the end of the game, Duke had the "hands" team in to run the delay offense - not sure how Zoubek would fit into that.

[Dukefan4Life]

I like Z i really do, but to me he just looks lost out there. He looks like he is moving in cement. He needs to learn to use his size more effectly

[ugadevil]

Towards the end of the game, Duke had the "hands" team in to run the delay offense - not sure how Zoubek would fit into that.

I think that is a good point. Duke's end of game offense is predicated on spreading everyone out and waiting for a mismatch for someone to drive the ball to the lane. If Zoubek is in, then he is in the post with a defender who would be able to provide help defense on anyone driving in from the perimeter. It seems like Kyle is much more effective in the slow-down offense because he can bring a bigger defender out to the perimeter and beat them with the drive.

[Richard Berg]

I think that is a good point. Duke's end of game offense is predicated on spreading everyone out and waiting for a mismatch for someone to drive the ball to the lane. If Zoubek is in, then he is in the post with a defender who would be able to provide help defense on anyone driving in from the perimeter. It seems like Kyle is much more effective in the slow-down offense because he can bring a bigger defender out to the perimeter and beat them with the drive.

Your analysis is good, but it's even simpler than that. With the delay game, the worst possible result is a turnover early in the shot clock. So you want your best ballhandlers on the court, period. (I mean that in the general sense: dribblers, passers, catchers.) Everything else is secondary, with the possible exception of free throw shooting once the game winds under 2min.

[fogey]

I like Z i really do, but to me he just looks lost out there. He looks like he is moving in cement. He needs to learn to use his size more effectly

Just looked a bit more difficult for him to move laterally than usual. He may have paid a price for the extended minutes against St Johns.

[Carlos]

Thought Z looked pretty good when he was in there. And...let's face it, I don't know that he was in there long enough to really judge him anyway. Five minutes? I certainly didn't see anything AWFUL that would cause him to get yanked. I know that one GT dude threw down a vicious dunk over Z, but that was just a really amazing, athletic play. Anyway, I was kinda scratching my head as to why he didn't get a few more minutes - especially toward the end of the game....

GaTech has a lot of bad matchups for Zoubek. Lawal and Smith are both very mobile post players as is Aminu.

Zoub's is shooting less than 50% from the FT line, isn't effective away from the basket, and - although improved in this aspect - is still more turnover prone than guys like Singler, Henderson, or Nelson. None of that makes a case for having him in the game when you're spreading the floor and running a delay game.

[tonymac]

Zoubeck didn't play very much, because he was a defensive liability. The interior players for Tech are far more athletic, and you could see their eyes light up when he came in. Let's face it, he doesn't exactly strike fear in the hearts of the opposing post players, especially the ones with ball-handling and driving skills.

[CDu]

Thought Z looked pretty good when he was in there. And...let's face it, I don't know that he was in there long enough to really judge him anyway. Five minutes? I certainly didn't see anything AWFUL that would cause him to get yanked. I know that one GT dude threw down a vicious dunk over Z, but that was just a really amazing, athletic play. Anyway, I was kinda scratching my head as to why he didn't get a few more minutes - especially toward the end of the game....

Ga Tech is a horrible matchup for Zoubek. They have a bunch of really athletic big men who can take advantage of him. The dunk was an athletic play, but it was on a pretty simple move. The guy just dribbled to his right and went right around Zoubek for the dunk. A more agile player prevents that dunk. But Zoubek is just too slow right now.

Moreover, he didn't really do anything in his five minutes other than hustling down court one time for a dunk. Otherwise, he had a pretty quiet game. He got a hook shot blocked (how does that happen when you have a 4-inch height advantage?). And despite being 7-feet tall, he got no rebounds in five minutes of play.

I'm fine with him getting limited minutes in a game like this. He wasn't productive, and yet he gave a few minutes of rest to Thomas and Singler.

[greybeard]

I still think there is an issue of TRUST or BELONGING that detracts from this team. That was best exemplified when Henderson threw the ball out of bounds because he seemingly refused to "get" the pace that Zoubek was moving at this night.

Now, you put Zoubek on a lesser team, anybody who misses him when he comes open five feet from the basket, I mean misses him big because he isn't moving the way a guy who isn't recovering from a broken foot is, the guy sits down. Period. There is no excuse for that play, if Zoubek is treated as the "man" out there. None.

Zoubek is not "the man" out there here, far from it. As long as a team treats the least of themselves with less than the best, the team is diminished. This really needs to stop.

[SilkyJ]

"It’s Not Easy Being Tall"

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1399694

Enjoy

[Huh?]

All I know is that as soon as Zoubek came back we started playing bad. I think he messes up chemistry and our run run run mind set.

[greybeard]

All I know is that as soon as Zoubek came back we started playing bad. I think he messes up chemistry and our run run run mind set.

Chemistry that would exclude from the whole, that is made of an inflexible mind set, is alchemy that will not hold up when it counts. There are some things that are nice for a team to have; there are others that are essential. A commitment to fold teammates into the play is non-negotiable.

[Madrasdukie]

"It’s Not Easy Being Tall"

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=1399694

Enjoy

Nice article. I really think if Brian remains healthy he's going to be invaluable to our team.

[CDu]

I still think there is an issue of TRUST or BELONGING that detracts from this team. That was best exemplified when Henderson threw the ball out of bounds because he seemingly refused to "get" the pace that Zoubek was moving at this night.

Now, you put Zoubek on a lesser team, anybody who misses him when he comes open five feet from the basket, I mean misses him big because he isn't moving the way a guy who isn't recovering from a broken foot is, the guy sits down. Period. There is no excuse for that play, if Zoubek is treated as the "man" out there. None.

Zoubek is not "the man" out there here, far from it. As long as a team treats the least of themselves with less than the best, the team is diminished. This really needs to stop.

If there was ever a team in which the chemistry is impeccably good, it's this year's Duke team. I think you've misread something to be a negative where there is no negative. I don't remember this incident of which you speak, and I don't remember any situation in which any player failed to show trust in Zoubek. And if there were ever a coach that would IMMEDIATELY resolve such a situation if it arose, it is Coach "five fingers coming together make a fist" K. He coaches chemistry and togetherness more than anybody. The fact that Coach K showed nothing but love for Henderson's play (both during and after the game) last night suggests that you misinterpreted the situation, too.

[OldSchool]

Zoubek had a solid game against GT, especially on the defensive side.

People claim that Brian is a defensive liability because Lawal put a move on him in the post? Well, at the 11:00 minute mark and then again at the 10:30 mark in the first half Lawal put a similar move in the post and scored on Kyle, twice. So sure, Brian is not as quick as he could be now, but the fact is that Lawal has some very effective post moves. Putting aside that one play, even in the GT game where GT's post players are very athletic and quick, Z's presence was a positive on the defensive end.

Offensively, it seems clear they are just not used to having Brian in the mix. Z and Jon had a nice give and go at the 16:15 mark in the first half, and Jon drew the help defense to him, leaving Z wide open a couple of feet from the basket - and Jon took the shot himself, instead of feeding Z for the easier lay-up. At the 15:00 mark, Z was wide open cutting to the basket for an easy lay-up, and Nolan simply didn't see him (or wasn't looking for him). At the 2:00 mark, Z's man left to help on Jon's penetration, and Z put his hand up for a pass over the top for a lay-up, but Jon instead made a bounce pass that went out of bounds. These plays, to me, are just a lack of chemistry from not having enough practice and playing time together because of Z's foot injury.

In the post, I would like to see Brian bend his knees more and lower his center of gravity. He should use his hips more to create space and control his man, instead of standing straighter and pushing with his arms (which he occasionally gets called for). He should watch Kyle's form on the game tapes - Kyle has outstanding form on block-outs and rebounding.

Of all the players on the team, Brian is playing at the lowest percentage of his potential, and he needs more minutes to improve. He is not unathletic, he is simply undeveloped in terms of basketball skills. However, he does need to work on developing his foot-speed. If I were his conditioning coach, in the offseason I would have Brian chase chickens around in an alley like Burgess Meredith with Rocky --Big Z should be as quick as "greased lightning."

[Devilsfan]

I understand the posts about lack of mobility, and his not being able to move his feet on a simple bounce pass by Scheyer. But he didn't play in the second half, and after his first career dunk. Did he aggravate his fooot? I sure hope not. He was making such great strides.

[greybeard]

If there was ever a team in which the chemistry is impeccably good, it's this year's Duke team. I think you've misread something to be a negative where there is no negative. I don't remember this incident of which you speak, and I don't remember any situation in which any player failed to show trust in Zoubek. And if there were ever a coach that would IMMEDIATELY resolve such a situation if it arose, it is Coach "five fingers coming together make a fist" K. He coaches chemistry and togetherness more than anybody. The fact that Coach K showed nothing but love for Henderson's play (both during and after the game) last night suggests that you misinterpreted the situation, too.

Could be, but for some time (two seasons) I have seen either an inability or an unwillingness of Duke's outside players to penetrate with the pass as Zoubek was moving to good position. Last year they would wait not only until he arrived, but also until a defender started pushing on him before they threw him the ball. Then, when he was unable to do anything with it, it was on Zoubek, at least among the posters here. Not me. I have spoken to this issue for two years. I spoke to it forcefully BEFORE his big game preceeding the GT game. This is nothing new for me.

I see it as a trust issue, not a skill one, although the two are intertwined. I appreciate that passing lanes can appear to be present and close with lightening quickness and that that can make a player understandably cautious.

The play in the GT game, Henderson threw it three feet out of Zoubek's reach. Now, he might have seen in his mind's eye Zoubek moving like Singler, but then he isn't seeing his teammate, which is where I began.

[mehmattski]

“I was always a target, especially in high school,” Duke’s Brian Zoubek said. “I was a target for teams’ defenses, a target for teams’ aggression ... for teams’ anger. I had one game my sophomore year when we were playing our biggest rival. They had a football player starting on their team. First play of the game, he walks out on the court, winds up and punches me right in the crotch. There was stuff like that all through high school.”

Ouch. Hooray for being short!

Seriously, I have some estimate of how he is... I was a track athlete but also played soccer in high school, and being a superfast wing player lead to defenders freaking out and tripping me on purpose (until they realized I wasn't very skilled).

[devildownunder]

As long as it means 25 minutes in each for Zoubek.


I've been thinking about this. Brian has shown that he is moving fairly well now and can at least try to step up and make a contribution down the stretch. But with unc now "in the hole" on the schedule and every game after that an elimination game, there really are just two more games that we may think of as "dress rehearsals" before opening night.

I'm not trying to say the regular season has no meaning but we are attempting to build to something here. This team has much talent and much promise but in order to have a realistic shot at a title, it will need some interior defense and AT LEAST some put back/fill the lane-type offensive production from the post.

Zoubek needs to adjust to the team and his teammates need to adjust to him. This takes live-game experience, not just practice.

So I say we start Zoubek and play him all the minutes he can handle the next couple of games, and then adjust his minutes for unc/acc/ncaas according to how he performs in those contests and, if warranted, any subsequent practices.

Yes, we stand to lose some seeding and, perhaps, a mythical regular-season acc title, but I think we could stand to gain much more.

Your thoughts?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

As long as it means 25 minutes in each for Zoubek.

Your thoughts?

Ain't gonna happen.

Brian can contribute greatly to this team, and with solid contributions can certainly enhance our chances against some opponents, but he's not going to play 25 minutes in a game this year, and we're not going to lose our next two games.

[devildownunder]

Ain't gonna happen.

Brian can contribute greatly to this team, and with solid contributions can certainly enhance our chances against some opponents, but he's not going to play 25 minutes in a game this year, and we're not going to lose our next two games.


Hey, anything is possible, but I don't think it's going to happen either. Just want to get some opinions on whether or not this would be a positive course of action. There would, of course, be no guarantee that Duke would lose is he played big minutes. Maybe he would perform very well and we would win. Or maybe he would perform poorly and we'd still win anyway.

At some point we'll require the services of a big man in some way shape or form to win it all. There isn't much time left. This is just an idea for doing everything we can to have that big man ready when we need him.

[CDu]

Hey, anything is possible, but I don't think it's going to happen either. Just want to get some opinions on whether or not this would be a positive course of action. There would, of course, be no guarantee that Duke would lose is he played big minutes. Maybe he would perform very well and we would win. Or maybe he would perform poorly and we'd still win anyway.

At some point we'll require the services of a big man in some way shape or form to win it all. There isn't much time left. This is just an idea for doing everything we can to have that big man ready when we need him.

I don't believe that it would be a good thing. I don't think getting Zoubek 25 minutes a game for two straight games is going to prepare him to be a major contributor night in and night out for the rest of the season. I don't think it's lack of playing time that's keeping him down, I think it's a combination of a lack of conditioning, coordination/athleticism, and strength. So basically, we'd just be losing two games with no benefit later in the season.

There may be occasional matchups this year in which he can be effective in brief stints, but there are going to be plenty of matchups in which he's just not ready yet. I think it's going to take an entire offseason of weight training and conditioning and basketball for him to have a chance to be ready to contribute night in and night out.

Now, if Zoubek had not been injured last summer or early in the year and you were suggesting this in November/December, I might have agreed. But it's not likely that Zoubek is going to have a meteoric rise in conditioning or strength late in the season.

[greybeard]

I don't believe that it would be a good thing. I don't think getting Zoubek 25 minutes a game for two straight games is going to prepare him to be a major contributor night in and night out for the rest of the season. I don't think it's lack of playing time that's keeping him down, I think it's a combination of a lack of conditioning, coordination/athleticism, and strength. So basically, we'd just be losing two games with no benefit later in the season.

There may be occasional matchups this year in which he can be effective in brief stints, but there are going to be plenty of matchups in which he's just not ready yet. I think it's going to take an entire offseason of weight training and conditioning and basketball for him to have a chance to be ready to contribute night in and night out.

Now, if Zoubek had not been injured last summer or early in the year and you were suggesting this in November/December, I might have agreed. But it's not likely that Zoubek is going to have a meteoric rise in conditioning or strength late in the season.

Agreed, almost entirely. Here's the almost.

Zoubek, if the team adjusts to his abilities (notice I did not say limitations, which is how I think some of the players look at things), has proven he can be effective, and not just on put backs, offensively.

This is what K has to ask himself, or not, depending on how he sees it: how much is it worth to give a player who was highly recruited and might have been from day one regarded as a center piece in other worthwhile 1-A programs, an opportunity to do his thing? How much is it worth to his teammates?

Some might answer simply that it is not worth sacrificing momentum, and the rhythm that this team has established. Might be true. However, it would seem that this momentum and rhythm, if they are worth anything, cannot be so frail. More importantly, where does the strength, the real inner strength to perserve and prevail down the road in a team really lie? Is it just the bench riders who need to sacrifice, and be there for the others? I think that this team loses if that is their mindset. I really do.

[Jumbo]

I've read a number of comments on Zoubek, and while I'm excited about the extent to which people are encouraged by his progress, we need to keep a few things in mind.
1) When you add something in hoops, you often have to subtract something else. That is certainly the case here. Much of Duke's success this season has come from two areas -- pressure defende and a spread offense where basically everyone can shoot, drive and pass. Zoubek's presence changes both of those areas dramatically.
2) Even with extended minutes, Zoubek isn't the type of player yet where you can stick him on the block, feed him the ball, and let him go to work. so the idea of his a post scoring presence this season simply through more reps is a bit of a farce. He doesn't have those skills yet. By next year, hopefully he will.
3) Zoubek is still very inconsistent. His last game was a perfect example, as he made a number of mistakes. Two stand out. Once, he caught the ball in the middle of the lane, but didn't even try to make a move. So, even at 7'1", his hook shot was easily rejected. Shortly after, Scheyer curled deep into the paint off the dribble. It was clear from the motion of the play that Duke's big man would have a dunk if he cut to the basket. Sure enough, Scheyer threaded a beautiful bounce pass between two defenders that ... just froze under the hoop, because no one was there to collect it. After a seemingly endless pause, the ball just trickled out of bounds. Why? Brian hadn't cut.

Zoubek doesn't have to be a major component of this team for it succeed, for him to succeed. We actually have a really nice thing going with Zoubek, McClure and King, three totally different backups who match up well with different types of teams. As long as one plays well off the bench in a given game, we're in pretty good shape. And as long as Zoubek can give Duke solid defense and rebounding in the games where that is needed, I will be quite happy with his contributions this season.

[Classof06]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Zoubs will come back an average a double double but if he comes back healthy (any day now I assume) and can give this team 6-8 quality minutes they might very well be on their way to a final four.

Clealry our main (only?) weakness is our post defense against bigger teams. Booker and Osby had their way in the first half of their games against us but slowed considerably in the second halves as our depth wore them down.

If Zoubs can simply provide some defense and rebounding against these bigger teams I would think we would improve drmatically. Specifically, if he can provide 4-5 first half minutes against the bigger bodies it would go a long way in securing potential victories against the likes of UCLA, Kansas and UNC.

Providing he's healthy I think it's fairly realistic to think that Zoubek can still help this team significantly this season.

Yes, yes, yes. I've said it a million times but I think Duke needs Zoubek to ultimately win a national championship. He doesn't have to play 25-30 minutes a game, but he needs to give Duke a solid 10-15 minutes a game in the tourney. If he can rebound, defend and alter shots, that's all Duke needs. I get frustrated a lot because Krzyzewski seems to have such a short leash with Zoubek. Brian is only going to learn by getting extended game minutes, like the St John's game.

Now, I'm not asking Coach K to play Brian at the expense of losing games but you can clearly see Zoubek is getting more comfortable with each outing and if we can get him further along that "comfort path" by March, it will reap huge dividends for Duke. I'm very, very excited at the progress Brian has made since returning from injury and for my and Duke's sake, I hope it continues...

[Bluedog]

Zoubek is getting more comfortable with each outing and if we can get him further along that "comfort path" by March, it will reap huge dividends for Duke.

By March? That's only two days away :eek: I know, you mean the NCAA tournament. But, I definitely agree that Brian will play a key role and I think nobody understands that more than Coach K. Altering shots, getting rebounds, having a big body inside, 5 additional fouls to give, and giving some rest to other starters can make a huge difference. I've been very pleased with what I've seen from Zoubek the past couple of games, and expect it will only improve.

[greybeard]

I think that if Duke (K) decided he needed it, wanted it, you would see Zoubek, out of shape and all, tender foot and all (sorry, I don't believe it ain't), score near double figures and shoot a high percentage playing less than half a game.

No, I do not think you could just let him set up in the block, get him the ball, and have him go to work. That is not the way effective pivot play usually works.

Big deal, he got one touch and got his shot blocked. That proves exactly what? Henderson went up on a drive as high as he could and had folks looking down at him; the ball never left his hand. So what! He should stop penetrating the defense? Why the double standard?

I don't remember the play with Scheyer, but it sounds like he tried to do more than usual off of the dribble, take it inside the lane with no clear path to the basket, after occupying the ball for a while on an aborted penetration and then looping back around, and found himself in trouble and threw the ball on a hope and a prayer with no indication that the other guy had made a read.

Look, I can understand that Zoubek is not up on his game because of his injury and leave it at that. But, the failure of other teammates to give him a chance to maximize his abilities in his style and not theirs is not his fault, it is theirs. Ultimately, when this season is over, if they don't win a championship, they will be left with memories that will focus more on their experiences as a group then on battles won and lost. To let a teammate hang in the wind as being perceived as less than he is, as not having had the chance to succeed because of how they chose to adapt to what he does well or not, will be part of those memories. The sound of one hand clapping, perhaps, the sound of one less thing to talk about.

And, it is possible, it is perhaps possible, that whether they win a championship or not will depend on how well they can organize themselves to allow a 7'1" teammate to make a play at a key moment of a game that only that 7'1" teammate could possibly make. That too it seems like will be the sound of one hand clapping. On that, I agree with the rest of you.

[Jumbo]

I think that if Duke (K) decided he needed it, wanted it, you would see Zoubek, out of shape and all, tender foot and all (sorry, I don't believe it ain't), score near double figures and shoot a high percentage playing less than half a game.

Greybeard,
That's a really unfair, unrealistic expectation. And, even if it were true, at what expense would it occur? If K did make this kind of commitment, what would Duke sacrifice in the process? In a way, you answer this question by saying "if Duke (K) decided he needed it." Duke doesn't need Zoubek to score like that.


No, I do not think you could just let him set up in the block, get him the ball, and have him go to work. That is not the way effective pivot play usually works.

It depends on the pivot. But Brian, at this point, is more effective with his back to the basket, either making post move or catching the ball on the move around the rim.


Big deal, he got one touch and got his shot blocked. That proves exactly what? Henderson went up on a drive as high as he could and had folks looking down at him; the ball never left his hand. So what! He should stop penetrating the defense? Why the double standard?

There's no double standard. I was simply using that play as an example that illustrated some of Brian limitations at the moment. He does not yet have a good feel for the defense around him, and his movement is limited. So he tends to play stiff.


I don't remember the play with Scheyer, but it sounds like he tried to do more than usual off of the dribble, take it inside the lane with no clear path to the basket, after occupying the ball for a while on an aborted penetration and then looping back around, and found himself in trouble and threw the ball on a hope and a prayer with no indication that the other guy had made a read.

Forgive me, but how can you comment on a play you didn't even see? That would be like my describing intimate details from the Battle of the Bulge. For the record, Scheyer didn't do anything more than usual. He made a typical penetrating play (can't remember whether Zoubek screened or was on the block). He got into the lane, drew a second defender, and you could see the play developing as he soveled a beautiful pass toward the basket where his big man should have been cutting for a dunk. Zoubek never moved. It's just once example, but it's important to remember both the good and the bad when evaluating a player.


Look, I can understand that Zoubek is not up on his game because of his injury and leave it at that. But, the failure of other teammates to give him a chance to maximize his abilities in his style and not theirs is not his fault, it is theirs. Ultimately, when this season is over, if they don't win a championship, they will be left with memories that will focus more on their experiences as a group then on battles won and lost. To let a teammate hang in the wind as being perceived as less than he is, as not having had the chance to succeed because of how they chose to adapt to what he does well or not, will be part of those memories. The sound of one hand clapping, perhaps, the sound of one less thing to talk about.

And, it is possible, it is perhaps possible, that whether they win a championship or not will depend on how well they can organize themselves to allow a 7'1" teammate to make a play at a key moment of a game that only that 7'1" teammate could possibly make. That too it seems like will be the sound of one hand clapping. On that, I agree with the rest of you.

Zoubek's teammates are not stopping him from getting opportunities. Zoubek is loved by his teammates, and no one was happier after his performance against St. John's than his teammates. The point I made, which you did not recognize, is that Brian has a specific skill set at this time, and those skills don't mesh particularly well with the style Duke is playing, nor against every opponent. For the rest of this season, Zoubek will be a situational weapon. Agaisnt teams with certain types of big men, his size will be invaluable. Against other teams with smaller, quicker bigs, a guy like McClure will be more effective (like against Georgia Tech). Let's keep our expectations realistic.

[OldSchool]

No, I do not think you could just let him set up in the block, get him the ball, and have him go to work. That is not the way effective pivot play usually works.

I don't remember the play with Scheyer, but it sounds like he tried to do more than usual off of the dribble, take it inside the lane with no clear path to the basket, after occupying the ball for a while on an aborted penetration and then looping back around, and found himself in trouble and threw the ball on a hope and a prayer with no indication that the other guy had made a read.


Correct, Zoubek does not yet have the basketball skills to set up on the block against a quality big man and then make a nifty move or series of moves, without traveling, and score on a layup like Shelden or Hansbrough. It's not because he's not athletic enough to accomplish that, it's that he hasn't yet developed that skill set.

The errant pass by Jon actually illustrates the way Brian should be used on offense - as an alternative to kicking out for a 3 when one of our penetrators has drawn help defense to him in the lane. On that play, Jon had penetrated and drew Z's defender over to help - Z immediately recognized he was open and put his hand up high for a pass from Jon. Jon could have passed it over top to where the 7'1" Zoubek had his hand extended - but instead made a bounce pass under the basket. Sure, ideally Z should have been cutting to the basket instead of waiting for the pass where he was - but I fault Jon as much as Z on that play, and attribute it to lack of chemistry due to not having played together enough.

That play could easily have turned out well, and demonstrates the best way to use Z on offense - lurking near the lane to be available for a layup when a penetrator draws the help defense. Especially when we are not hot from 3, it is a very useful option.

Other teams use this play against us with much success when our defense is spread out defending the perimeter, although I have noticed they are less successful when Zoubek is in on defense, because of his large presence.

[MChambers]

Let's keep our expectations realistic.

Since when do we do that?

[greybeard]

Jumbo, we are not really far apart (I wish I knew how to separate out quotes the way you and others do, it makes for effective dialogue).

My first point was not to argue that K can possibly be faulted for not trying to structure play for extended periods to maximize Z's output, but rather that, if he did, the output would be there. Ergo, he is not nearly as unskilled or unready as many here say. In that regard, you and I differ.

My second point was a more nuanced take in what I see as the strength of Brian's back-to-the-basket game. Perhaps it comes from his having been a goal tender in soccer (just teasing here). He makes a move to appropriate space at extremely appropriate times for a reception; the exterior players do not deliver as they see him starting to move (that was historical), and what we saw in the last game, at least in Henderson's case, was a delivery that was not attuned to Brian's current pace and, I think, longstanding style, which is to create separation and begin to gather for a catch and move with no bounce. (For a 7'1" guy coming off a serious, serious foot injury, I don't think that Brian is comfortable with the notion of getting a step and picking up speed, adjusting to the catch and then dealing with whatever he might perchance encounter on the finish.)

So, if Brian was an established starter and scorer, and someone came in off the bench and threw him a lead pass as if he were a finisher like Henderson, he would not do that twice (just ask Taylor). My beef is that no one on this team, except Singler, has impressed me overtime with the ability to make penetrating passes APPROPRIATE to the receiver. I have seen Singler make some wonderful ones to Lance.

That said, I see Brian as still being significantly hampered by the foot. His inability to get going in the circumstance you mention involving Scheyer (by the way, I did describe in terrific detail a play I saw Scheyer make when he threw the ball away, I just do not recall whom it was directed at because it got close to no one; apparently that was a different forced pass) I think is a mental/emotional limitation that coincides with the freshness of the injury and the failure to complete healing and needed reeducation (perhaps a reeducation that improves on the early education) about ambulating in that manner.

Personally, I am surprised that he is back playing and think that it is terrific that K is giving him the opportunity. If I was his coach, I don't think I would.

I am being very demanding on what I expect from Zoubek's teammates, more demanding than K and perhaps, given who he is and who I am, stupidly so. That said, everything in this world has it's price; if the guy is on the floor and one of the skill players throws a pass that misses him by 3 feet, for me, it is on them. If K put Zoubek on the floor, which he did, then darn it, deliver it to the guy the way he likes when he likes in the spot he likes. No excuses, do it!

And, if he gets another hook shot stuffed, so what? On the other hand, maybe having tasted blood, that shot blocker and his buddies will be dead meat for a simple head fake, and Z walks to the basket in his own sweet time and lays it in without exposing himself to unknown risks that he is not ready to handle.

By the way, what's up with Hewitt? I mean, I really like the guy's demeanor and the way his teams have played at GT. but, playing that kid who kept rolling his eyes around in his head to make sure his head was still there (I'm assuming the doctors told them to do that and that, if he passed out, they'd know he couldn't play or some such) was almost "beyond the pale," and I do not use that term lightly (you think).

[CDu]

I am being very demanding on what I expect from Zoubek's teammates, more demanding than K and perhaps, given who he is and who I am, stupidly so. That said, everything in this world has it's price; if the guy is on the floor and one of the skill players throws a pass that misses him by 3 feet, for me, it is on them. If K put Zoubek on the floor, which he did, then darn it, deliver it to the guy the way he likes when he likes in the spot he likes. No excuses, do it!

Here's where I think you've misinterpreted the situation. I highly doubt that Henderson/Scheyer/etc are intentionally throwing the ball away from Zoubek. They are making an instinctive pass based on practice and the flow of the game. It just so happens that Zoubek may not be up to game speed quite yet. Passes like that will get him there moreso than passing tentatively will.

I really don't think you should bench a player for making a pass like that. Passing should be encouraged, not discouraged. Benching a player for making a pass to a spot where Zoubek probably should have been is sending the wrong message. You bench the guy who is not where he's supposed to be - not the other way around. What you're suggesting would further limit Zoubek's touches. Instead of trying to get him the ball, the team would be more inclined to never pass to him, for risk of getting benched for missing him with the pass.

[Jumbo]

Greybeard,
The easiest way to quote section is to respond to the post by clicking the quote button. As you'll see, the post to which you are responding will come up with a quote tag at the beginning and one at the end. To separate it into chunks, just copy and paste the "beginning" quote tag and the "end" quote tag to the beginning and end of the section to which you wan to reply. Write your reply, then repeat the process for each section of someone's post you want to quote.

Edit: The beginning quote tag will look like this (without the parentheses): ([QUOTE=greybeard;111870])
The end one will look like this [/QUOOOOOOTE] (With quote spelled normally -- if I post it the correct way it will work as html)

[greybeard]

Here's where I think you've misinterpreted the situation. I highly doubt that Henderson/Scheyer/etc are intentionally throwing the ball away from Zoubek. They are making an instinctive pass based on practice and the flow of the game. It just so happens that Zoubek may not be up to game speed quite yet. Passes like that will get him there moreso than passing tentatively will.

I really don't think you should bench a player for making a pass like that. Passing should be encouraged, not discouraged. Benching a player for making a pass to a spot where Zoubek probably should have been is sending the wrong message. You bench the guy who is not where he's supposed to be - not the other way around. What you're suggesting would further limit Zoubek's touches. Instead of trying to get him the ball, the team would be more inclined to never pass to him, for risk of getting benched for missing him with the pass.

Again, you and I are pretty close here. I will first blend in a response to someone who said something like Brian does not have a back-to-the-basket game like "Shelden or Hansbrough." He is not anywhere near as proficient as them, but, IF HE GETS THE DAMN THING AS HE MAKES A MOVE TO SPACE AND CREATES A TAD OF SEPARATION FROM THE DEFENDER, HE WILL HURT PEOPLE!! If Montana treated Clark as if he was (I'm blocking here), there would have been no CATCH.

I agree with you that Duke is playing great and that Scheyer and Henderson are well meaning guys and are great contributors. I also agree that Brian does not fit the tempo that they are playing at when they are rocking and rolling. However, when, as has happened often, the offense shuts down for long periods, the heck with your tempo preferences; maybe you could use a 7footer to put the ball over some people, and, if so, then you better get the ball to him in a way that maximizes his chances, whether it fits with your instincts or not.

I agree with you also as to your bottom line. I take it that you would not rely on Zoubek to perform offensively at meaningful times, or perhaps use him at all in meaningful games. Like I said, I doubt that I would be allowing him to play, period. While my bottom line is that he is just not ready, I see the issues you and Jumbo raise about his ability in real world terms to contribute to be extremely well thought out and in line with the percentages.

My only tweak is that, if K is gonna use the kid, then it is up to the other guys to treat him like a star and adapt their tempos, instincts, and whatever else they have to, to deliver him the ball in a manner that, if his bones are well enough aligned that particularly day, will allow him to hurt people inside the defense with easy attempts off the pass. Any team benefits offensively when that happens.

[devildownunder]

Yes, yes, yes. I've said it a million times but I think Duke needs Zoubek to ultimately win a national championship. He doesn't have to play 25-30 minutes a game, but he needs to give Duke a solid 10-15 minutes a game in the tourney. If he can rebound, defend and alter shots, that's all Duke needs. I get frustrated a lot because Krzyzewski seems to have such a short leash with Zoubek. Brian is only going to learn by getting extended game minutes, like the St John's game.

Now, I'm not asking Coach K to play Brian at the expense of losing games but you can clearly see Zoubek is getting more comfortable with each outing and if we can get him further along that "comfort path" by March, it will reap huge dividends for Duke. I'm very, very excited at the progress Brian has made since returning from injury and for my and Duke's sake, I hope it continues...


This post closely approximates what I was getting at. Just to be crystal clear, I'm not advocating for Zoubek to play 25 to 30 minutes a game for the rest of this year either. I just want him and the rest of team to get as much "practice" as they can together in the next two games, so that they get just that much better performing together. I suspect one large benefit would be fewer miscues like the one between Brian and Scheyer.

[cspan37421]

We're going to the NCAA Finals against Kansas and Koubek is going to score the first 5 points for us.

Koubek, Zoubek, ... it won't matter. We'll win it all.

[OldSchool]

I will first blend in a response to someone who said something like Brian does not have a back-to-the-basket game like "Shelden or Hansbrough." He is not anywhere near as proficient as them, but, IF HE GETS THE DAMN THING AS HE MAKES A MOVE TO SPACE AND CREATES A TAD OF SEPARATION FROM THE DEFENDER, HE WILL HURT PEOPLE!! If Montana treated Clark as if he was (I'm blocking here), there would have been no CATCH.


You're just not being realistic here. As I said in my post you quoted, "Zoubek does not yet have the basketball skills to set up on the block against a quality big man and then make a nifty move or series of moves, without traveling, and score." If Big Z sets himself up in the post, with a quality big man like Osby, Booker, Lawal, Hickson, McFarland, etc., on his back, then feeding him with an entry pass and trying to have him score over that defender that is a VERY LOW percentage play for us.

If Zoubek finds himself on a mismatch in the low post against a guard, then yes, by all means, zip that entry pass in there and let him go up (preferably without bringing the ball down) and score.

However, I'm very high on Z's potential - I'd like to see him give us 15 mins a game this year down the stretch, and next year I expect him to be a key player for us. And by senior year, if he is blessed enough to avoid injuries, I think we'll see the kind of post moves where Z can score one-on-one against the better centers in the league, and he will be a monster.

[cbfx3]

I have a feeling that Zoubek is going to really become a force for us.. He will be averaging a solid double double by his senior year. Take it to the bank

[CDu]

My only tweak is that, if K is gonna use the kid, then it is up to the other guys to treat him like a star and adapt their tempos, instincts, and whatever else they have to, to deliver him the ball in a manner that, if his bones are well enough aligned that particularly day, will allow him to hurt people inside the defense with easy attempts off the pass. Any team benefits offensively when that happens.

And I disagree with you on this point. Treating Zoubek like a star will only set the team back. His back to the basket game isn't up to par, either. Against good post defenders, he's losing the battle. The team is most effective in the tempo at which they've been playing. They shouldn't change their style to adapt to the guy who is arguably the least prepared to contribute regularly.

Right now, unless the matchup is right (like against St John's), Zoubek isn't going to play major minutes. He's going to play spot minutes. In those minutes, the team is best suited to play their game. I think it is up to Zoubek to adjust to the team, not for the team to adjust to Zoubek. I think that what you're suggesting isn't the best thing for the team this year, and it may not even be the best thing for Zoubek this year.