PDA

View Full Version : How can the Terps win when it's 8 on 5?



bjornolf
01-28-2008, 12:24 AM
I've been listening to the Maryland postgame up here on the radio and watching on the TV, and everybody from fans to the sports anchors have been terping that the Terps got jobbed by the refs. Comments of "how can we win when it's 8 on 5, particularly in the last five minutes?" abound.

I'm just a poor football player who's only played pickup basketball since my high school days, and I'm admittedly biased. Can some of the more objective members here tell me what I missed? Duke had 3 more fouls than the terps but took 2 more foul shots (although 8 of those FTs came on the 4 clock stopping fouls in the last minute). I tried to rewatch the last minutes objectively, but I hardly saw anything blatant in the last five minutes.

On a similar note:
CSN here showed Gary's entire press conference. Here is a paraphrasing of Gary's comments after the game:

The first thing he talked about was rebounding in the second half being key. Said they had a big advantage in the first half, but that Duke evened it up in the second half.

Mentioned that the Terps had great energy in first half but dropped off in second half.
Said that they were still in it with 4 minutes left with a chance to win, and what more could you want?
Mentioned that Duke got possessions they shouldn't have gotten, but later said it was due to loose balls and rebounding.

When asked about the turnovers and what Duke did to them defensively, he said:
"Same they've done to all the league teams they've played. Overplay. Uh. Lot of contact when you go down the middle and, uh, you turn the ball over." I thought that was a little bit of a barb at Duke and the refs, but hey, what do I know.

Asked about the effort as compared to how they played against UNC: He said the Terps played as well as they did against UNC, shooting 54% against the No. 3 team in the country. I only heard him mention UNC a few times, and all but one of those times were answering direct questions from the media.

When asked what they can take from this game, he said that they weren't taking anything from this game. They just wanted to get ready for Virginia. He said that didn't want to say "oh gee, we played great" against two top 5 teams in a week, they wanted to BE one of those top 5 teams. THAT'S what they're playing and fighting for. To get back there.

I could do a word-for-word transcript for you guys, but I don't know if that would be legal. Maybe the DBR gods can let me know.

Devilsfan
01-28-2008, 12:35 AM
Maryland played great but remember they had the home court advantage. And there fans didn't even throw water bottles at the Duke parents. What's this world coming to?

itsmoney13
01-28-2008, 12:51 AM
Nothing new from the fans or the coach. They lost, Duke won. There has to be a reason other than they were outplayed. They apparently still buy into the "Duke gets all the calls" myth. Like you pointed out, Duke was called for more fouls than them, so in their minds it's not that they were called for less fouls, it's the actual calls Duke did or didn't get that influenced the outcome of the game. Unreal. Duke scored more than them, if they had not, everyone would be talking about how Maryland played a great game. Instead Duke wins and they cry woe is me.

It'll be a long long time before this whole Duke-Ref movement goes away. But as long as it's out there it means Duke is still winning big games, which is what most people on this board hope for.

If next time these 2 teams play MD wins, it'll mean they scored more points plain and simple. Duke did tonight and it's more than they can handle up there inside the beltway. Love to see it.

GTHC!GTH!!!!

bjornolf
01-28-2008, 12:59 AM
It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game. And I'm sorry, but when a nun with NO connection to Duke, not knowing I'm a Dukie, says that Duke got it from the refs, I'm not gonna argue. I guess I just feel sorry for the terps. It seems to me that terping on and on about the zebras rather than reveling in the gutty performace by their team seems to rob them of dignity. That's just my take.

SeattleIrish
01-28-2008, 02:51 AM
I went to the terp board and read through the game thread; while there were some posts "terping" about the refs, there were just as many saying it had nothing to do with the refs and was about poor judgement and turnovers by the terps.

The only consistent whining was about the OB calls in the last 5 minutes.

s.i.

KenTankerous
01-28-2008, 07:36 AM
As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

CDu
01-28-2008, 07:45 AM
We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.

loran16
01-28-2008, 08:49 AM
As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials?

Home court, plain and simple. If the game's at cameron the Ts would go the other way around, though i still think they wouldnt have given one to either coach.

But at Md, obviously it's going to be against Duke the Technical.

Meh, no harm no foul, you should expect that in road games.

Matches
01-28-2008, 08:50 AM
I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Highlander
01-28-2008, 08:57 AM
It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game. And I'm sorry, but when a nun with NO connection to Duke, not knowing I'm a Dukie, says that Duke got it from the refs, I'm not gonna argue. I guess I just feel sorry for the terps. It seems to me that terping on and on about the zebras rather than reveling in the gutty performace by their team seems to rob them of dignity. That's just my take.

Funny, when you said we'd only gotten jobbed one time, I knew exactly what game you were talking about before you said it.

DukeDevil
01-28-2008, 08:59 AM
I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

I literally laughed and snorted to this.

Shweet!

DoubleDuke Dad
01-28-2008, 09:00 AM
Speaking about the Maryland fans, how’s this (from the AP recap) for a little unintentional irony.

The Terrapins would not lead again, and many in the crowd of 17,950 filed out before the final buzzer.

"They have great fans. They support their team in a magnificent manner," Krzyzewski said.

Saratoga2
01-28-2008, 09:09 AM
As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

I have been a big Duke fan for many years, even though not a graduate. I like the way the coach stays above the terping and the players play hard, clean basketball. As far as last night, I thought Gist and Osby were throwing themselves into our players and getting the calls. I think the lack of a goal tending call that coach K complained about was legitimate and should have been called. That said, I didn't really think the game was called that unfairly. Perhaps refs sometimes get caught up in all of the crowd emotion, but by and large they do their jobs pretty well. We won by out toughing Maryland in the second half.

7duke4
01-28-2008, 09:17 AM
I was surprised at the crowd noise/participation in the first half and equally surprised at the dramatic dropoff in the second. And with 2 minutes to go, the camera showed a very empty lower stands. Obviously you'd never see this at Cameron. Maryland has such loyal fans, don't they? They still think they're our rivals...

JasonEvans
01-28-2008, 09:30 AM
I am trying to decide which of the following is the best post in this thread so far... it is not an easy choice. Do you go for great humor or real, objective insight?


I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.



As a Kentucky fan, I used to buy into the Duke gets the calls, Coach K works the refs myths. But as I have been watching more Duke games (my lady is a Duke girl) I see nothing to support these notions. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true and last night was no exception.

Why was Krzyzewski T'ed up for complaining about the lack of a goal tending call yet Williams is allowed to carp (or is that "terp") all night to the officials? I actually feel a little sorry for Greg Paulus after watching the way he gets bumped, shoved and generally picked on by everybody. And can someone please explain charging versus blocking? I mean, I've played organized and pick up ball my whole life - I AM from Kentucky, it's required - and I cannot for the life of me figure out why they call one versus the other any more. But it seems to me, when it is close, Duke never gets those calls.

I think the root of all this is the fact that everyone always brings their A game against Duke, players and fans. As was pointed out, did you hear that crowd last night? And when you elevate your game to it's best and still fall short, it can't possibly be fair, right?

--Jason "great work KenTank and Matches... keep it up!" Evans

JasonEvans
01-28-2008, 09:33 AM
I could do a word-for-word transcript for you guys, but I don't know if that would be legal. Maybe the DBR gods can let me know.

If you just cut and pasted a transcription from some other site, that would probably be a problem, especially if it is a professional site that copywrites their material.

But, if you do the work of transcribing the stuff on your own then I don't think it would be a problem. Go for it!

--Jason "not a god, but a mod" Evans

diesel
01-28-2008, 09:35 AM
I've been thinking that what the Terps need to raise the standard of their game is a true rivalry.

One of the things about the greatest rivalry in College bbal is proximity. The Hated Holes are only 8 miles down NC 751 from the Hallowed Halls of CIS.

And the opportunity may have arisen this season for Maryland, with the game against American! Imagine that: a Beltway rivalry! I believe I'm right in saying both teams are from Maryland. As I recall, American is just over the District line.

Admittedly, this year the Terps are down in a potential series with American. But they can do it! And the foes are just down the road!

SharkD
01-28-2008, 09:38 AM
Nothing new from the fans or the coach. They lost, Duke won. There has to be a reason other than they were outplayed. They apparently still buy into the "Duke gets all the calls" myth.
Of course Gary Williams "buys into" the myth: after-all, he's the one who started it.

From: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=22259

To a large extent, what now gets called Duke hating started at Maryland and was spread by Gary Williams, who in various ways insinuated that Duke gets all the breaks. In the 2001 Final Four, when Duke came back against Maryland, he famously yelled at a courtside official, “how badly do you want Duke to win this game?”
--

I've been thinking that what the Terps need to raise the standard of their game is a true rivalry.
I disagree. What Maryland needs is a coach who believes in academic standards (see: Steve Blake) and can obtain consistently good performances from his players without histrionics. Dollars to donuts, if Maryland makes the dance, it will be out in a first or second "shocker" to a "lesser" team.


And the opportunity may have arisen this season for Maryland, with the game against American! Imagine that: a Beltway rivalry! I believe I'm right in saying both teams are from Maryland. As I recall, American is just over the District line.American Univ. is entirely in D.C., within the Tenleytown neighborhood. And I wouldn't call playing 16 times in 80 years a rivalry -- going by past area defeats, Williams will not play American again, (such as he now avoids my alma mater, GW), nor will they play Georgetown -- at Gary's insistence.

johnb
01-28-2008, 09:51 AM
In regards to the technical foul, it seems like the precipitant was his desire for a goaltending call (which was close but refs appear to have been correct). Don't know why he was so steamed and wonder if it is useful to get so worked up on the sidelines when he already has a team that is tough and energetic. I can see the usefulness when there are guys who appear to be coasting (from my distant perspective, I'm thinking of guys like Parks, Abdelnaby, and McRoberts), but we seem to have an entire team which is focused and effortful. At the time, seemed to me that he handed over 2 points without a significant gain.

SharkD
01-28-2008, 09:54 AM
In regards to the technical foul, it seems like the precipitant was his desire for a goaltending call (which was close but refs appear to have been correct). Don't know why he was so steamed and wonder if it is useful to get so worked up on the sidelines when he already has a team that is tough and energetic.
I think Coach's reaction had more to do with the refs not noticing that Jon Scheyer got nailed in the back by Gist, shortly after the play.

Tom B.
01-28-2008, 09:58 AM
We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.

Scheyer got raked across the arm while going to the basket on one of those calls, though, so at least that one was a wash -- or maybe even an advantage to Maryland, as the correct call would've put a very good free throw shooter on the line (high likelihood of points for us), instead of just giving us the ball (lower likelihood of points).

GopherBlue
01-28-2008, 10:02 AM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

Jeffrey
01-28-2008, 10:06 AM
In regards to the technical foul, it seems like the precipitant was his desire for a goaltending call (which was close but refs appear to have been correct). Don't know why he was so steamed and wonder if it is useful to get so worked up on the sidelines when he already has a team that is tough and energetic. I can see the usefulness when there are guys who appear to be coasting (from my distant perspective, I'm thinking of guys like Parks, Abdelnaby, and McRoberts), but we seem to have an entire team which is focused and effortful. At the time, seemed to me that he handed over 2 points without a significant gain.

Hi,

I'm not sure I'd say it was without significant gain. IMO, working the zebras is an art and K is really good at it. As for whether the team needed a spark, I'd say they definitely did because there was a heck of a difference between they way we played in the 2nd half as compared to the 1st. For example, Nelson refused to be stopped in the 2nd half. He was a man with a mission.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

bjornolf
01-28-2008, 10:12 AM
I've been thinking that what the Terps need to raise the standard of their game is a true rivalry.

One of the things about the greatest rivalry in College bbal is proximity. The Hated Holes are only 8 miles down NC 751 from the Hallowed Halls of CIS.

And the opportunity may have arisen this season for Maryland, with the game against American! Imagine that: a Beltway rivalry! I believe I'm right in saying both teams are from Maryland. As I recall, American is just over the District line.

Admittedly, this year the Terps are down in a potential series with American. But they can do it! And the foes are just down the road!

The best true rival opportunities for Maryland would have to be Georgetown or George Mason, assuming that Mason could keep up the level of performance they've demonstrated the last five years or so. Of course, with Mason, Maryland would be the big baddy with the larger basketball history of success. I'd love to see how they'd react to being on the Duke end of a "rivalry" for once. Without their raging inferiority complex, what would they really have? ;)

diesel
01-28-2008, 10:12 AM
You're right, Shark D--American U is just short of the District Line in DC. (Jeez--and to think I used to live on upper Mass. Ave!)

But my point stands about the proximity between American U and the Terps providing the raw material for a rivalry.

But why not Gergetown or GW as potentiial DC rivals for U Md, you may ask? Well, I was thinking you would have to give the Terps a fighting chance of winning otherwise a series wouldn't be much fun. The Terps would have a fighting chance of winning an occasional game against American.

I rest my case for a Beltway rivalry, UMD vs American.

freedevil
01-28-2008, 10:14 AM
I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

AWESOME post.

bjornolf
01-28-2008, 10:16 AM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

It looked more like a pat than a cheap shot. I thought it was a cheap shot at first, but after looking at it a few times on my TiVo, it lost the sinister aspect. First of all, kidney shots are pretty painful, and Singler didn't react at all, even to hop a little. So, it looked to me like something I've done in pick-up ball many times, kind of a combination of locating an opposing player in your peripheral and letting them know you're there. Maybe it was harder than it looked, but I didn't see it if it was. Now, Swann's shot in the VT game on GP was an example of one that I thought was much worse than it looked. Just my $0.02.

bjornolf
01-28-2008, 10:24 AM
Of course, with Mason, Maryland would be the big baddy with the larger basketball history of success. I'd love to see how they'd react to being on the Duke end of a "rivalry" for once. Without their raging inferiority complex, what would they really have? ;)

Wait a second. DOES Maryland have a greater basketball history? Sure, Maryland had that national title back when I was a younger man, but how many final fours have they been to in the last five years? I know Mason's been to one. :cool:

Johnboy
01-28-2008, 10:29 AM
In regards to the technical foul, it seems like the precipitant was his desire for a goaltending call (which was close but refs appear to have been correct). Don't know why he was so steamed and wonder if it is useful to get so worked up on the sidelines . . .


Maybe he remembered getting jobbed on that goaltending call at Virginia Tech (the one where Mike Patrick and Len Elmore argued as to whether the ball would have touched the rim had it not been interfered with).

Carlos
01-28-2008, 10:43 AM
It's funny. I've been watching Duke b-ball since spring 1993 when I got accepted to Duke. I've seen my share of Duke losses, and while I've complained about individual calls MANY times, I've only said the refs jobbed us or it was 8 on 5 one time, and that was the UConn championship game.

Do mean the UConn semi-final game in 2004 or the championship game in 1999?

WRT to the technical, I'm actually not sure if K wanted the goaltending call there. I agree with SharkD in thinking K wanted a foul called on Gist who clearly pushed Scheyer in the back, sending him flying under the basket and allowing Gist to get the rebound tip-in.


Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I've looked for this and can't see any indication of it. Could you check and see exactly when it was?

TNTDevil
01-28-2008, 10:52 AM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).I saw this happen. At first it was so obvious that I thought that Vasquez was giving him a pat on the rear. I asked my son, who was watching with me, if he saw it but (no surprise) he missed the punch.

It was definitely a punch of some sort and I agree with your definition- not hard enough to injure but enought to goad a retaliatory smack. Singler either did not feel it or ignored it, either way it was the right thing to do.

GopherBlue
01-28-2008, 11:10 AM
It looked more like a pat than a cheap shot. I thought it was a cheap shot at first, but after looking at it a few times on my TiVo, it lost the sinister aspect. First of all, kidney shots are pretty painful, and Singler didn't react at all, even to hop a little. So, it looked to me like something I've done in pick-up ball many times, kind of a combination of locating an opposing player in your peripheral and letting them know you're there. Maybe it was harder than it looked, but I didn't see it if it was. Now, Swann's shot in the VT game on GP was an example of one that I thought was much worse than it looked. Just my $0.02.

You may be right. It was the fact that it was closed fist and more than a tap, and he looked around just before doing it, that made me think it was malicious.

I hope I am wrong, because Vasquez is a lot of fun to watch, and I hate the thought of watching him for 2.5 more seasons if he is a punk.

GopherBlue
01-28-2008, 11:16 AM
I've looked for this and can't see any indication of it. Could you check and see exactly when it was?

Unfortunately, I did not record it. IIRC, it was just under 5min remaining. Vasquez is shown, fairly close up, walking from right to left on screen, and as he passes Singler, he hits him. The hit falls off the bottom of the screen as the camera pans, and happens pretty quickly. If you blink, you'll miss. Anyone else see this and note the time? Or better yet, post the video?

bdevil94
01-28-2008, 11:25 AM
I think Coach's reaction had more to do with the refs not noticing that Jon Scheyer got nailed in the back by Gist, shortly after the play.

I'm pretty sure that's what K was going off about. Gist clearly shoved Scheyer to get to the putback. Probably not even necessary since Gist could have jumped right clear over him (he's got some hops!), but it was pretty obvious that it was a shove.

Nonetheless, props to our guys for rolling with the punches and coming out on top!!!

DukeDevil
01-28-2008, 11:25 AM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I caught that. I'm not sure what the intent was. If that identical thing happened in any other scenario (if we're thinking of the same thing) I would have thought of it as the equivalent of a jovial punch in the shoulder. It just seemed weird to me because...well, it's maryland playing us, and there is usually no love lost there.

Lid
01-28-2008, 11:42 AM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I saw it, too, but we decided it was on par with a pat; in fact, it's likely that it was just a friendly way for Vasquez to invite Singler to come visit Venezuela sometime. You know how some men are -- economical with verbage. A butt pat is worth a thousand words.

CMS2478
01-28-2008, 11:43 AM
I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Shouldn't he be yelling at the ones who ACTUALLY play!!!

mayrer
01-28-2008, 12:18 PM
I agree, Gist just ran over Scheyer to get that rebound, and I thought that was what got Coach upset. But the broadcasters frequently can hear the actual complaint, so maybe he was complaining about a goaltend (which it wasn't), not the foul.

heath_harshman4
01-28-2008, 12:50 PM
We did get away with a few pretty bad out of bounds calls late in the game. Other than that, though, I thought it was pretty even. They missed some calls in our favor, and missed some in Maryland's favor.


yea, but i didn't hear the UM fans complaining about the refs when we had some of our top guys in fould trouble on BS calls in the first half when they were up by nine...

SharkD
01-28-2008, 12:59 PM
But why not Gergetown or GW as potentiial DC rivals for U Md, you may ask? Well, I was thinking you would have to give the Terps a fighting chance of winning otherwise a series wouldn't be much fun. The Terps would have a fighting chance of winning an occasional game against American.

I rest my case for a Beltway rivalry, UMD vs American.

Maryland won't play Georgetown as long as Williams is the head coach -- he claims that Georgetown doesn't play nicely with their scheduling and therefore he has no interest in playing them, or inviting them to the annual BB&T Classic.

Maryland is also unlikely to play GW again, unless in a tournament; Williams made comments about how unfair it was that a lesser team like GW got a huge boost simply by beating his team and that he felt Maryland had nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing such poor quality opponents simply for the sake of placating DC-area fans and ADs. (Translation -- the Terps won't slum it anymore by playing teams who can beat them.)

So, now that another 'lowly' DC team has bruised Gary's pride by being all uppity and not respecting the 'talent' of the Terps by graciously rolling over, I wouldn't be shocked if Gary doesn't return the Eagles' phone calls for a few years. Lord knows, the loss couldn't have possibly resulted from Gary's coaching or his team's play.

SharkD
01-28-2008, 01:05 PM
I agree, Gist just ran over Scheyer to get that rebound, and I thought that was what got Coach upset. But the broadcasters frequently can hear the actual complaint, so maybe he was complaining about a goaltend (which it wasn't), not the foul.

I think Brando was paying more attention to making sure that everyone knew that he got to introduce Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (who's already off to an ethically-questionable start) at his inauguration than paying attention to the basketball game. Besides, according to Tim, when you're at your homecourt, you should get a little leeway on what constitutes a mugging.

vango
01-28-2008, 01:16 PM
Did anyone else catch the apparent cheap shop by Vasquez to the kidney of Singler during stopped play? It was Greivis... ;)

I believe it was ~5 min remaining in the game, after Singler returned to the court with 4 fouls. Play was stopped and teams were setting for an in-bounds play on the Duke offensive end. Vasquez appeared to look around and then give a closed-fist sucker punch in the lower back of Singler (near the bottom of the TV screen). It was not hard enough to be an attempt to injure, but deliberate enough to be an attempt to incite Singler to retaliate. I had to rewind and replay several times to determine if I was seeing things (I was not).

I don't know. Must not have been much to it if Singler ignored it. I took it as more of an "atta boy."

I'm not a big fan of that kid as I'm not much of a fan of any hot dog - but he doesn't strike me as that kind of player. But I'm not in the kids head.

sagegrouse
01-28-2008, 01:36 PM
I blame the Terp loss on those guys on the bench who don't play. I couldn't tell what it was, but judging by the way their "coach" was berating them the whole game they must have done something pretty awful.

Really classic.

Where did Gary learn this form of psychology? What professional told him that a good use of his time is yelling at bench players during the game?

sagegrouse

wilson
01-28-2008, 01:41 PM
Wait a second. DOES Maryland have a greater basketball history? Sure, Maryland had that national title back when I was a younger man, but how many final fours have they been to in the last five years? I know Mason's been to one. :cool:

They did have the Driesell years. He didn't quite turn them into "the UCLA of the east," but they were pretty good for a while there. And anyway, what does Lefty know of predictions? He went to Duke.;)

sagegrouse
01-28-2008, 01:55 PM
The best true rival opportunities for Maryland would have to be Georgetown or George Mason, assuming that Mason could keep up the level of performance they've demonstrated the last five years or so. Of course, with Mason, Maryland would be the big baddy with the larger basketball history of success. I'd love to see how they'd react to being on the Duke end of a "rivalry" for once. Without their raging inferiority complex, what would they really have? ;)

Commentators here and elsewhere have noted that the top women's bball teams play every year while the men's teams shun each like they have the ebola virus.

Does anyone have any doubt about the three reasons for this? Money. Money. Money. The top women's teams fill their arenas only for the big games among Duke, UConn, Tenn, etc.

The top men's team sell out against SUNY Albany, East Tennessee, the Ivy League, and anyone. Why should they schedule a non-conference local rival? didn't the Kentucky legislature compel that UK and Louisville play?

Also, to be fair, the conference play is really tough in the ACC, increasingly in the SEC and, if the teams actually played each other, in the Big East. And I don't want to slight the Big Ten, Big 12, and PAC Ten.

FWIW, there could be an awesome series of rivalries in the DC metro area (beginning with Maryland, Georgetown and George Mason) that would excite the local fans and sell out a bunch of games. It would probably become better than the big five rivalry in Philadelphia.

Don't expect it to happen, though. Maryland refuses to schedule Georgetown unless it's a home game because some supposed agreement back during the Left-Big John area. But frankly, I don't think either team wants to put its local reputation at risk, much less endanger it with an upstart like Mason.

sagegrouse
'My favorite patsy story: A reported asked Billy Tubbs of OU what he said to the opposing coach after beating his team by 80 points. "Can you come back next year?" said Billy.'

kdevilsk212
01-28-2008, 01:57 PM
Funny, when you said we'd only gotten jobbed one time, I knew exactly what game you were talking about before you said it.

We also got jobbed royally in the ACC title game against Maryland. I remember at one point, a ref actually helped John Gilchrist up from the floor. And said (you could hear it on the TV audio), "You're showing up well today baby."

I'd also say that Carlos Boozer was HACKED on the potential putback against Indiana in the NCAA tourney. Those are most memorable episodes for me.

While I do think that what comes around generally goes around, there are moments when a team is coming back against Duke in a critical game and the refs get caught up in the excitement. It's human nature I suppose... I think that in close big games refs should swallow their whistles (especially on the charge v. block call.) It's just seems so arbitrary sometimes.

TravisMcGee
01-28-2008, 02:06 PM
Maryland won't play Georgetown as long as Williams is the head coach -- he claims that Georgetown doesn't play nicely with their scheduling and therefore he has no interest in playing them, or inviting them to the annual BB&T Classic.

Maryland is also unlikely to play GW again, unless in a tournament; Williams made comments about how unfair it was that a lesser team like GW got a huge boost simply by beating his team and that he felt Maryland had nothing to gain and everything to lose by playing such poor quality opponents simply for the sake of placating DC-area fans and ADs. (Translation -- the Terps won't slum it anymore by playing teams who can beat them.)

So, now that another 'lowly' DC team has bruised Gary's pride by being all uppity and not respecting the 'talent' of the Terps by graciously rolling over, I wouldn't be shocked if Gary doesn't return the Eagles' phone calls for a few years. Lord knows, the loss couldn't have possibly resulted from Gary's coaching or his team's play.

50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider.....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents....

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

JasonEvans
01-28-2008, 02:18 PM
50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider.....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Four.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents....

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Always good to have comments from reasonable and though-provoking rival fans. Thanks!

-Jason

Indoor66
01-28-2008, 02:29 PM
50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider.....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents....

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

I know Travis McGee and you are no John D. McDonald! :)

Jessica5
01-28-2008, 02:31 PM
A few of this year's Kville residents and I journeyed up to College Park for the game, and we were really surprised at things we saw. They threw things at Duke fans, they drank their airline sized bottles of liquor, they made fun of Shane Battier (???), they left comcast with lots of time left to play (5 minutes was the first group to leave), and their student section was REALLY boring and had to be told to make noise through the game - even when we were shooting free throws.

Every out of bounds call apparently should have gone to them! Any call that went our way was a flop! Every questionable no call was a conspiracy!

and even with our serious foul trouble, Duke got ALLLL the calls.

Terp on.

Tent 1 will blog about the rest of the trip soon.

- Jessica -

TravisMcGee
01-28-2008, 02:38 PM
I know Travis McGee and you are no John D. McDonald! :)

Not in my wildest dreams. I'm just an average schlepper with two kids and a mortgage :(

Indoor66
01-28-2008, 02:39 PM
Not in my wildest dreams. I'm just an average schlepper with two kids and a mortgage :(

Welcome to the Board. We like everyone ... almost. :D

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-28-2008, 02:55 PM
Welcome to the board and do please stick around. It's great to get the perspective from fans of other teams, especially when they are as civil and insightful as yours seems to be. :)

Billy Dat
01-28-2008, 03:30 PM
I haven't been around the board long enough to know if this has been debated ad nauseum, but in reading some of those posts in this topic, how can we honestly say that Maryland isn't one of our major rivals? I graduated from Trinity in 1994 and was not a big Duke fan growing up so my frame of reference is really 1986 - present, but within that window, there are only 4 teams that I truly despise in the following order; UNC, UConn, Maryland and Michigan. Kentucky is close. After a great run with Michigan through the mid 1990s, that rivalry has waned (should heat back up). We only get to play UConn on the biggest of stages so we can't count on those games. That leaves UNC and Maryland. I circle all 4 games on the calendar every year. The ACC saw fit to make sure we are in the same schedule "pod" se we play 2x year. Last night's game had my heart pounding, I was throwing/kicking things more then usual, etc. I know we may not want to give the Maryland fans the satisfaction of being acknowledged rivals, but, come on, they clearly are.

dukerev
01-28-2008, 04:36 PM
Billy Dat - I agree with you that the Terps are rivals. But... (there's always a "but" isn't there?)

To wit: like you, I enjoy beating Maryland more than other teams that we play and hate losing to Maryland more than most of the teams that we play (all a matter of perspective as I enjoy most every win and dislike most every loss). For example, last night's win was somehow more satisfying to me (as a fan) than the win against Clemson. No real reason for it other than the fact that I dislike Maryland more. Obviously there's some history behind that.

However: while Maryland is A rival, we are THE rival for them. There is a disparity between the intensity of the rivalry for their fans (and team) and our fans (and team, I think). THE rival for us is obviously UNC. It always has been and always will be. There have been, are, and will be times in our history when a Maryland or a Kentucky or a (fill-in-the-blank) rises up and becomes more of a rival than other schools. But THE rivalry for us will always be Carolina. I think (at least as long as G.Williams is at Maryland) Duke will be THE rival for them.

In short, there's rivalries and there's rivalries. Maryland is the former for us.

bjornolf
01-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Unfortunately, I did not record it. IIRC, it was just under 5min remaining. Vasquez is shown, fairly close up, walking from right to left on screen, and as he passes Singler, he hits him. The hit falls off the bottom of the screen as the camera pans, and happens pretty quickly. If you blink, you'll miss. Anyone else see this and note the time? Or better yet, post the video?

It's at EXACTLY the 16:39 mark in the second half. GP misses a layup over Osby, the rebound pops around a little and GP knocks it away from Osby, and then GP knocks it off Vasquez's foot out of bounds. The clock stops at 16:39. Vasquez walks into the lane across the back of Singler and pops him a little one. It's a little harder than I thought it was, but it is RIGHT in the center of his back, NOT near the kidneys, and I really do think it is more of a tap than a cheap shot, but I'll let you be the judge. My TiVo says it's 1:30 into the game, but I'm sure everyone's TiVo is a little different on start and stop times. Hope this helps.

Highlander
01-28-2008, 04:50 PM
50 year old Terp fan here -- no flames intended:

I'm not here to defend Gary -- this is your forum, but please consider.....

Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

I hope GW67 reads this thread and adds his 2 cents....

Anyway, all of this is a shade of gray and I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between your opinion and mine.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Reminds me of Jim Valvano's rules for scheduling:
1) Never play teams from your state that aren't in your conference. You have enough enemies already, and these are no-win games for you.
2) Don't play teams with "State" in their names that aren't actually states. Examples include Ball State, Alcorn State, Fayetteville State, etc.
3) Do play teams whose name is a state. Examples include Kentucky, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, etc.

Seems to me like Gary follows rule 1).

SharkD
01-28-2008, 04:59 PM
Maryland/Gary doesn't run the BBT, I think John Feinstein does. I have heard him on the radio saying that Georgetown has been invited but has never had any interest in participating. I think Feinstein's dream was to create a tournament similar to what used to be in place up in Philly -- The Big Five.

I have also heard Gary mention (though carefully not sighting this as THE reason they don't play - wink wink) that the last time MD played Georgetown it was on Gtown's home floor at the Capital Centre and we are due the next home game. Fair?

As for GWU, I think you are right about Gary's comments about the "big boost." But I think you are leaving out his complaint that the losses to GWU have always come on the second day of the BBT. Most years MD would play the tougher first round game and then have to play a tough and motivated GWU the next night and he felt that it was unfair.

Lastly, I highly doubt that Gary will stop scheduling American as they were the school that gave him his first HC job. I have heard NOTHING about taking them off the schedule.

Good luck and thanks for letting me chime in.

Travis,

Opposing fans are always welcome at the DBR, especially when they have constructive comments (even if critical).

I'll admit, I was being a little hyperbolic and I had completely forgotten that AU was Gary's first job.

I guess I question how someone, like a Gary Williams, who seems to understand the game so well, almost always seems to fall short. And then, I'm irked by his knee-jerk tendency to find a scapegoat for why his team was cheated out of a win/title/etc.

Williams has fielded consistently good, but inconsistent teams. The teams which have achieved great things (like his national title) have done so on the backs of one or two outstanding players, but seemingly little teamwork. It seems that Maryland often rises to the challenge for emotionally-charged games, but comes off as flat-footed against non-conference teams and squads with little history of a rivalry with the Terps. (It also bothers me that the emphasis for student-athletes on the Terps' squads seem to ignore the former, while excelling at the latter -- Steve Blake being a prime example.)

[/rant][/histrionics]

diesel
01-28-2008, 05:24 PM
I haven't been around the board long enough to know if this has been debated ad nauseum, but in reading some of those posts in this topic, how can we honestly say that Maryland isn't one of our major rivals? I graduated from Trinity in 1994 and was not a big Duke fan growing up so my frame of reference is really 1986 - present, but within that window, there are only 4 teams that I truly despise in the following order; UNC, UConn, Maryland and Michigan. Kentucky is close. After a great run with Michigan through the mid 1990s, that rivalry has waned (should heat back up). We only get to play UConn on the biggest of stages so we can't count on those games. That leaves UNC and Maryland. I circle all 4 games on the calendar every year. The ACC saw fit to make sure we are in the same schedule "pod" se we play 2x year. Last night's game had my heart pounding, I was throwing/kicking things more then usual, etc. I know we may not want to give the Maryland fans the satisfaction of being acknowledged rivals, but, come on, they clearly are.

You weren't introduced to irony while you were at Trinity, Billy Dat? From what SharkD says, I might have expected the definition to be lost on Steve Blake, but on someone from Trinity?

Which reminds about a question I need to ask. How much damage was done at College Park after the Terps lost last night? Isn't it traditional for them to burn down some private or public property in frustration after they lose to Duke? Wasn't that what those leaving early from the student seats were heading off to do? There are sore losers and then there are fire losers.

MChambers
01-28-2008, 05:30 PM
Travis,
Williams has fielded consistently good, but inconsistent teams. The teams which have achieved great things (like his national title) have done so on the backs of one or two outstanding players, but seemingly little teamwork.
[/rant][/histrionics]

Gee, I think the 2002 team had five good, not great players. It's not like Blake, Dixon, Wilcox, Mouton, or Baxter has set the world on fire since college. And I think that team had good teamwork.
Not that I'm a Maryland fan, mind you.

DU82
01-28-2008, 05:44 PM
Gee, I think the 2002 team had five good, not great players. It's not like Blake, Dixon, Wilcox, Mouton, or Baxter has set the world on fire since college. And I think that team had good teamwork.
Not that I'm a Maryland fan, mind you.

Based on what we've seen Gary do since 2002 with some pretty good talent, I think that Steve Blake and especially Juan Dixon don't get enough credit for propelling Maryland to that National Championship.

bjornolf
01-29-2008, 08:02 AM
A lot of people have asked where exactly the alleged "cheap shot" that Vasquez put on Singler is in the game, so I'm posting this to help people find it. It's at EXACTLY the 16:39 mark in the second half. GP misses a layup over Osby, the rebound pops around a little and GP knocks it away from Osby, and then GP knocks it off Vasquez's foot out of bounds. The clock stops at 16:39. Vasquez walks into the lane across the back of Singler and pops him a little one. It's a little harder than I originally thought it was, but it is RIGHT in the center of his back, NOT near the kidneys, and I really do think it is more of a tap than a cheap shot, but I'll let you be the judge. My TiVo says it's 1:30 into the game, but I'm sure everyone's TiVo is a little different on start and stop times. Hope this helps.

uncwdevil
01-29-2008, 08:30 AM
A lot of people have asked where exactly the alleged "cheap shot" that Vasquez put on Singler is in the game, so I'm posting this to help people find it. It's at EXACTLY the 16:39 mark in the second half. GP misses a layup over Osby, the rebound pops around a little and GP knocks it away from Osby, and then GP knocks it off Vasquez's foot out of bounds. The clock stops at 16:39. Vasquez walks into the lane across the back of Singler and pops him a little one. It's a little harder than I originally thought it was, but it is RIGHT in the center of his back, NOT near the kidneys, and I really do think it is more of a tap than a cheap shot, but I'll let you be the judge. My TiVo says it's 1:30 into the game, but I'm sure everyone's TiVo is a little different on start and stop times. Hope this helps.

i saw it live, it was not hard enough to be malicious, and Singler didn't seem to get mad about it; i don't really think Vasquez is a dirty player, but at the same time it didn't look like a typical "atta boy" type thing

it was just weird

CDu
01-29-2008, 08:35 AM
A lot of people have asked where exactly the alleged "cheap shot" that Vasquez put on Singler is in the game, so I'm posting this to help people find it. It's at EXACTLY the 16:39 mark in the second half. GP misses a layup over Osby, the rebound pops around a little and GP knocks it away from Osby, and then GP knocks it off Vasquez's foot out of bounds. The clock stops at 16:39. Vasquez walks into the lane across the back of Singler and pops him a little one. It's a little harder than I originally thought it was, but it is RIGHT in the center of his back, NOT near the kidneys, and I really do think it is more of a tap than a cheap shot, but I'll let you be the judge. My TiVo says it's 1:30 into the game, but I'm sure everyone's TiVo is a little different on start and stop times. Hope this helps.

I definitely didn't see it as a cheap shot. I saw it more as a playful tap. It didn't look to be a very hard tap, and as you said it was in the middle of his back. He's also not really looking, so it's clear he's not intending any damage. And Singler has no physical reaction whatsoever, indicating it didn't phase him at all. Given that, it doesn't seem like there's any way there was malice intended. If people are reading it as a cheap shot, I think they're being overly sensitive to the idea that everyone is out to get Duke players.

BD80
01-29-2008, 10:21 AM
I remember seeing it and thinking it was a bit chippy, and maybe something the refs should consider keeping a lid on before it escalated, but nothing that was dirty or cheap. Basketball is a sport of physical domination, GV was just asserting his author-i-ti, marking his turf so to speak.

Compared to Laetner's "stomp" this was no big deal. I think it is good we are being tested like this during the season, good lessons for Kyle and the whole team.

heavy g
01-29-2008, 11:35 AM
I'm a Marylander and a Terp fan whenever they aren't playing Duke. I've also played hoops all my life.

I can assure you there is no other set of sports fans anywhere, in any sport, that whine about the refs as much as Terp hoop fans do. It is absurd. They have a true disconnect from reality, and they think every borderline call should go their way. And it is of epidemic proportions. Idiots who know next to nothing about basketball or the rules are ADAMANT that the calls were dead wrong and consistently going against them. They never recognize or remember the bad calls they get.

It's really rather sad and pathetic.

I believe some of it comes from a general chip on the shoulder that our region has, particularly Baltimore. We always think we're getting the short end of the stick. We like to play the underdog.

bjornolf
01-29-2008, 03:24 PM
I can assure you there is no other set of sports fans anywhere, in any sport, that whine about the refs as much as Terp hoop fans do. It is absurd. They have a true disconnect from reality, and they think every borderline call should go their way. And it is of epidemic proportions. Idiots who know next to nothing about basketball or the rules are ADAMANT that the calls were dead wrong and consistently going against them. They never recognize or remember the bad calls they get.


I have only three words for you: Philadelphia...Eagles...fans. Well, all Philly sports fans really, but the Eagles fans are the best/worst for that kind of thing.

I have lived in No. VA for a good portion of my life, and I've taken classes at UM. I have also followed the Terps a long time. Most of my friends are Terps or at least Terp fans. I really think it is more of a raging inferiority complex than anything else.

Which also explains the Philly fans. As a friend of mine once said, "Philly is the 60 watt bulb stuck between the 100 watt bulbs of DC and NYC." You could say the same about Maryland.

mddukefan
01-29-2008, 03:38 PM
Being a Duke fan in Baltimore i can agree with Heavy G on the fact that it is constantly insults on referees for the terp fans. I've never once heard them say we have legitimately beat them.

I understand i am going to take some ridicule for not being a hometown fan, but as a college basketball fan in general i do try and give the terps credit when it is due. I try ot have conversations with terp fans, but i guess the ones I seem to talk to never feel like doing the same for Duke (give them any credit), which is annoying at times.

dukestheheat
01-29-2008, 03:55 PM
I haven't been around the board long enough to know if this has been debated ad nauseum, but in reading some of those posts in this topic, how can we honestly say that Maryland isn't one of our major rivals? I graduated from Trinity in 1994 and was not a big Duke fan growing up so my frame of reference is really 1986 - present, but within that window, there are only 4 teams that I truly despise in the following order; UNC, UConn, Maryland and Michigan. Kentucky is close. After a great run with Michigan through the mid 1990s, that rivalry has waned (should heat back up). We only get to play UConn on the biggest of stages so we can't count on those games. That leaves UNC and Maryland. I circle all 4 games on the calendar every year. The ACC saw fit to make sure we are in the same schedule "pod" se we play 2x year. Last night's game had my heart pounding, I was throwing/kicking things more then usual, etc. I know we may not want to give the Maryland fans the satisfaction of being acknowledged rivals, but, come on, they clearly are.

Billy Dat,

For the last couple years, I think Maryland has been Duke's best game, but not our rival. Carolina has been and probably always will be our rival.

dth.

dukestheheat
01-29-2008, 03:59 PM
I'm a Marylander and a Terp fan whenever they aren't playing Duke. I've also played hoops all my life.

I can assure you there is no other set of sports fans anywhere, in any sport, that whine about the refs as much as Terp hoop fans do. It is absurd. They have a true disconnect from reality, and they think every borderline call should go their way. And it is of epidemic proportions. Idiots who know next to nothing about basketball or the rules are ADAMANT that the calls were dead wrong and consistently going against them. They never recognize or remember the bad calls they get.

It's really rather sad and pathetic.

I believe some of it comes from a general chip on the shoulder that our region has, particularly Baltimore. We always think we're getting the short end of the stick. We like to play the underdog.

This reminds me of an incident that occurred several years ago at Maryland, and I'm trying to remember that it was Duke/Duke's administration/fans that helped to alter the seating policy at Maryland. Players and player's families had been pelted with coins and water bottles, and I'm trying to remember that one family member had a concussion? and had to be treated!

That is amazing.

Was it the Duke community that helped change the policy on seating?

thanks,

dth.

diesel
01-29-2008, 05:11 PM
The mother of Carlos Boozer was hit by a water bottle and as I recall concussed. And the Boozer parents had attended UMD!

I recall Shane Battier saying he was hit by coins and other matter at games at MD.

To crown it off, I was informed that visiting teams in the stadium that preceded Comcast were told not to bring the parents of players or those on the bench.

There is a history of boorish and dangerous behavior here among the rivals of American U.