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SilkyJ
01-24-2008, 06:32 PM
David Thorpe over at ESPN has a column up that runs down how the NBA "Sophomores" are doing. He has multiple tiers and JJ is last in the "Others to Watch"

Sheld was one tier below in the "long way to go" tier, and thorpe says of him:

"...he's gotten worse in almost every single statistical category this season and looks like a disastrous pick for Atlanta at No. 5."

i think thats over-reacting, though I don't understand what is going on as he played solidly last year. Jason or any other ATL folks have any insight??

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=thorpe_david&page=Sophomores-080124&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba %2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dthorpe_ david%26page%3dSophomores-080124%26lpos%3dspotlight%26lid%3dtab4pos1

MikeS
01-24-2008, 06:52 PM
What has happened is that the Hawks think they need about 1,000 PFers and he gets no playing time while Al Horford plays 30 minutes per game and yet gets 8pts and 9rebs and is somehow a lot better than Shelden. Give me a break Shelden is just as good as Horford.

SilkyJ
01-24-2008, 07:08 PM
What has happened is that the Hawks think they need about 1,000 PFers and he gets no playing time while Al Horford plays 30 minutes per game and yet gets 8pts and 9rebs and is somehow a lot better than Shelden. Give me a break Shelden is just as good as Horford.

i'm with ya....

are you from ATL/watch their games/follow the team etc., or are you just a regular NBA follower like myself?

MikeS
01-24-2008, 07:39 PM
regular b-ball fan I couldn't bare to be a Hawks fan, Laker fan myself.

dukegirlinsc
01-24-2008, 08:33 PM
What do ya'll think is JJ's problem in the NBA?
Does he not exactly fit in with their offense?
Or is just not an NBA player?

I don't follow the NBA enough to know what's going on. I check the boxscores nightly for Orlando, Chicago, sometimes Atlanta. And New Orleans...I have a soft spot for Chris Paul.

SilkyJ
01-24-2008, 08:53 PM
not sure there either. havent talk to him in a while.

i'm guessing his defense isn't up to snuff and considering the players he is competing with have improved their shooting dramatically, there's no need for him. not agreeing, just hypothesizing on the coaches' rationale.

i also check indiana (dunleavy), clipps (uh-oh-maggette-o and brand...though he's hurt), Houston (shane), Philly (shav), Utah (BOOZER 4 MVP!!!), and now sacramento (dahntay)

Acymetric
01-24-2008, 08:55 PM
I think JJ would play on the right team. His situation is similar to Shelden's in Atlanta. Overloaded at their position so they get the shaft (Shelden probably deserves pt more than JJ, but both should be getting at least some minutes). I'd like to see both players sent to teams that could use them.

cspan37421
01-24-2008, 09:50 PM
is JJ's defense really that bad, outweighing his obvious offensive benefits? I didn't even think defense was something common in the NBA (common among contending teams but not everywhere, not by a longshot).

Or is he considered slow?

I saw Shel play in ATL a couple times and it was definitely a mixed bag.

heath_harshman4
01-24-2008, 10:32 PM
What do ya'll think is JJ's problem in the NBA?



2 words

Hedo Turkoglu

wilson
01-24-2008, 11:04 PM
What has happened is that the Hawks think they need about 1,000 PFers and he gets no playing time while Al Horford plays 30 minutes per game and yet gets 8pts and 9rebs and is somehow a lot better than Shelden. Give me a break Shelden is just as good as Horford.

I love Shelden, and it's true that he hasn't gotten a fair shake in Atlanta. But I'm sorry, he's not as good as Horford. Not even really close. Horford is FAR more athletic and much quicker. Those two traits are of paramount importance in the NBA. Shelden could be a nice complementary player, because his game is/will be unspectacular, yet solid. He's not a highlight reel or anything, but he's better than he's had the chance to show here. But let's not kid ourselves...Horford is a sizeable cut above.

KandG
01-25-2008, 12:07 AM
What do ya'll think is JJ's problem in the NBA?
Does he not exactly fit in with their offense?
Or is just not an NBA player?




Orlando has too many shooting guards, and isn't that great defensively. So unfortunately, JJ doesn't get the time, given his average/below-average defense.

Several analysts have pointed out that JJ would be better off somewhere else -- he's definitely an efficient scorer. He scored 7 points in 3 minutes of garbage time the other night, after barely playing for two weeks. It seems like every time he gets more than ten minutes, he does good things...but it can't be great for him to be sitting for such long stretches.

I think he's definitely an NBA player, and could do some amazing things in a system more suited to his skills. This isn't Josh or Shav or even Daniel Ewing scraping for some PT on any team that will take him -- JJ has a lot to offer certain teams. But maybe I'm looking at his prospects too optimistically.

darthur
01-25-2008, 12:40 AM
I didn't even think defense was something common in the NBA (common among contending teams but not everywhere, not by a longshot).

People keep saying this, but it just isn't true. NBA defense is very, very good on the whole.

dukegirlinsc
01-25-2008, 11:02 PM
not sure there either. havent talk to him in a while.

i'm guessing his defense isn't up to snuff and considering the players he is competing with have improved their shooting dramatically, there's no need for him. not agreeing, just hypothesizing on the coaches' rationale.

i also check indiana (dunleavy), clipps (uh-oh-maggette-o and brand...though he's hurt), Houston (shane), Philly (shav), Utah (BOOZER 4 MVP!!!), and now sacramento (dahntay)

I keep forgetting Elton Brand is hurt. That really blows, he had a nice season last year. But Boozer is still NASTY in so many ways, and I see Corey's been doing pretty well himself. And Shane...ahh...always love him. I'm glad to see that Houston is on TV a good bit.

HK Dukie
01-25-2008, 11:09 PM
JJ is actually averaging (per 40 minutes)... 18 points, 2 REB, 2 ASST. While these aren't all-star type numbers, these are pretty good when you are the 4th or 5th option even in the brief minutes you get in the game. These are numbers he is getting without even the benefit of a real warmup. Imagine what he could do if he actually got into a rhythm.

Would Orlando please just give JJ a chance?

ugadevil
01-25-2008, 11:45 PM
2 words

Hedo Turkoglu

J.J. and Turkoglu could work well together. Turkoglu can go down low and is a good rebounder and decent distributor of the ball. A player like that, combined with Dwight Howard, would open up the perimeter for J.J. Hedo can certainly be an effective small forward. I think J.J.'s battling for playing time against Keith Bogan and Keyon Dooling. If the issue is J.J.'s defense, who's job was it to defend Richard Hamilton tonight?

MikeS
01-26-2008, 05:49 AM
I don't think Holford is much better than Shelden, look at the numbers the guy plays 30mins per game and gets around 8 points and rebounds, not too impressive, Shelden does fine when he gets time, same situation with JJ. Still think that Josh could be better than both of them.

CDu
01-26-2008, 09:01 AM
J.J. and Turkoglu could work well together. Turkoglu can go down low and is a good rebounder and decent distributor of the ball. A player like that, combined with Dwight Howard, would open up the perimeter for J.J. Hedo can certainly be an effective small forward. I think J.J.'s battling for playing time against Keith Bogan and Keyon Dooling. If the issue is J.J.'s defense, who's job was it to defend Richard Hamilton tonight?

I think the original poster has it right. Turkoglu fills the "JJ" role for the team. He's their biggest perimeter threat. Turkoglu isn't really a post player despite his size. The reason that Turkoglu is the problem is because, like Redick, he's on the weak side defensively. So they don't want two players who are liabilities on defense and who prefer to float around the perimeter. It's redundant, and not the good kind of redundant.

Another reason is that the Magic have a miniature point guard. Redick is small for an NBA shooting guard, and his lack of length and leaping ability means he plays small as well (sort of the opposite of Nelson and Henderson). So with a small PG, they don't want to go with the small guards at both spots.

And on top of that, as you point out, the Magic have Bogans (a bigger more athletic guard) and Dooling (a solid combo guard) to fill out their rotation. The Magic are just a bad fit for Redick. I agree that he could have a role somewhere. I don't think he'd be a star-caliber player because of his lack of size and explosiveness. But on a good defensive team with a bigger point guard in an offense where he could run off screens Reggie Miller style, he could be an effective role player (who's role is shooting off screens).

ugadevil
01-26-2008, 10:18 AM
The Magic are just a bad fit for Redick. I agree that he could have a role somewhere. I don't think he'd be a star-caliber player because of his lack of size and explosiveness. But on a good defensive team with a bigger point guard in an offense where he could run off screens Reggie Miller style, he could be an effective role player (who's role is shooting off screens).

What about Toronto?