Duke MBB vs Virginia Tech Pre-Game & In-Game Thread

[Bob Green]

Post your thoughts in this thread.

[speedevil]

washington has been killing us, im glad he's a senior and wont be back next year.
does anyone think lance can develop his game to that of washington? or are their games totally different.

[Dukebacker]

Here's to hoping that Gerald jumps over Washington and Duke blows this one out in the first half, and holds the lead strongly in the second half.


I'd also like to see Nolan get a lot of point time today. He played very well last game running the point.


Go DUKE!

[dukestheheat]

THROTTLE UP DUKE!!

Duke has raised its own high bar; it MUST come out and space, slash, hit the free throws and value the ball, all the while playing maturely in a HOSTILE environment. This and Maryland upcoming are great tests for our warriors, and in my opinion Tech tonight is going to play with great effort despite not having Allen.

dth.

[dukestheheat]

speedevil,

what game lance chooses to develop, i do believe that he must find some type of platform and build right off of it. he's not there yet in terms of figuring what game he's going to build, however, and most would agree that while he's helped the team certainly, he's not yet arrived or more appropriately, he's not even close to what he can be at Duke.

I was excited about his play versus Clemson and that's a great starting place.

let's go!

dth.

[greybeard]

Seems to me that Greenberg employed an offense last year that is quite similar to Duke's this year, with his two big scorers (both guards) dribbling from the wings to the foul lane and then deciding whether to pull up, take it all the way, or innitiate inside out play. If Greenberg came up with that offense, what's the chance he'll deploy his guys to effectively defend it? Pretty good, right?

Don't be surprised if Tech gives Duke a surprisingly tough run.

Nope, I haven't seen them play this year, but Greenberg can, as the ball coach used to put it, "coach 'em up."

[grossbus]

i think this will be the week that will give us the opportunity to legitimately set our expectations for the remainder of the year. these two teams usually give us match up problems and seemingly always play their best against us. not for one second do i think that the twerps shot their wad against unc. they will be fired up for us and blacksburg will be ready for us tonight.

IIRC after the Pitt loss, K questioned the teams' heart in that game. i think of these two games as heart check games. how will we do when faced with adversity? these games will be physical and probably rough.

i think we will have a good idea if this year will be "fun" or if it will be pleasure.

it is not outside the realm of possibility that we lose both. i would not be surprised if we lose one. however, my belief is that we will win both and start to worry a lot of people.

[greybeard]

i think this will be the week that will give us the opportunity to legitimately set our expectations for the remainder of the year. these two teams usually give us match up problems and seemingly always play their best against us. not for one second do i think that the twerps shot their wad against unc. they will be fired up for us and blacksburg will be ready for us tonight.

IIRC after the Pitt loss, K questioned the teams' heart in that game. i think of these two games as heart check games. how will we do when faced with adversity? these games will be physical and probably rough.

i think we will have a good idea if this year will be "fun" or if it will be pleasure.

it is not outside the realm of possibility that we lose both. i would not be surprised if we lose one. however, my belief is that we will win both and start to worry a lot of people.

Having seen Osby over the summer, I expected him to be very tough to handle inside, which he was against UNC. The guy is extremely strong and knows how to use his body to advantage. I am surprised that he had shown little until the UNC game.

I think McClure would match up well against him, should Maryland play to Osby's strengths early and often, as they did against UNC.

In my mind, it was Osby, not Gist, who was the key to Maryland's victory, not just because of his offense, but because of his defense against Hansbrough.

I do not think that Osby can be as effective against Duke.

Seeing Henderson and Washington meet in the stratosphere has got to be worth the price of admission. Someoby tell Paulus, "this time put your arms up;" I am anxious to see how much this kid Washington's got!

[whereinthehellami]

I've seen VT play this year and I don't think they are a threat to beat Duke. If they are on and playing their best, I think they can keep it close for a while. If they had Allen, I would say they could possibly pull off the upset, if they were playing out of their minds. Their inxperience is too great this year for a team of Duke's caliber.

I think this will be a good test for Duke in a hostile environment. Cassel can get pretty loud and the fans will be physched.

[Wander]

I think Va Tech is the least likely of any ACC teams to beat Duke.

[Fish80]

Seems to me that Greenberg employed an offense last year that is quite similar to Duke's this year, with his two big scorers (both guards) dribbling from the wings to the foul lane and then deciding whether to pull up, take it all the way, or innitiate inside out play. If Greenberg came up with that offense, what's the chance he'll deploy his guys to effectively defend it? Pretty good, right?

Don't be surprised if Tech gives Duke a surprisingly tough run.

Nope, I haven't seen them play this year, but Greenberg can, as the ball coach used to put it, "coach 'em up."

"You may be right, I may be crazy, . . . " but I just don't see the offense that you're looking for. :D

Greenberg didn't invent the offense. It's been around a while (Phoenix), and K has included some new wrinkles. And I don't see that much similarity between VT's offense last year and ours this year. They only averaged 71.4 ppg and 13.2 apg.

We're averaging 85 ppg and 16 apg this season.

[whereinthehellami]

Starters
Thorns 5-9, FR
Delaney 6-2, FR
Vassallo 6-6, JR
Washington 6-7, SR
Diakite 6-9, JR

Reserves, over 10 MPG
Hudson 6-5, FR
Thompson 6-6, FR
Witcher 6-9, SO

Notes

VT shoots 44% FG, 69% FT, and 34% from 3.
Duke shoots 49% FG, 70% FT, and 39% from 3.
Vassallo (15.8 PPG) and Washington (12.4 PPG) average double figures for the Hokies.
Nelson (14.3 PPG), Henderson & Singler (13.1 PPG), and Scheyer (11.4 PPG) average double figures for Duke.
Allen, who is suspended for the game, was 1st or 2nd on the team in points, rebounds, steals, and blocks.
VT averages 67.6 PPG, 37.1 RPG, 1/1.1 A:TO, 6.8 SPG, and 5.1 BPG.
Duke averages 85.0 PPG, 37.8 RPG, 1.1/1 A:TO, 8.3 SPG, and 4.3 BPG.


Outlook
If the game is close it will be because Vassallo and Delaney are hitting their 3's and Washington is keeping the crowd into the game with his ESPN play-of-the-day worthy athletiscm.

If Duke runs away with this game it will be because of TO's and a lack of
savy that has plagued the Hokies this year. They have alot of youth on their team and I'm not sure how they will respond to the hyped atmosphere and pressure that Duke will put on them. Washington who is a senior can get carried away with trying to be the go-to-guy and has a tendancy to be careless with the ball.

In the end, Duke is too composed and too talented for the Allen-less Hokies. Keep an eye on the Hokies for next year though.

[greybeard]

"You may be right, I may be crazy, . . . " but I just don't see the offense that you're looking for. :D

Greenberg didn't invent the offense. It's been around a while (Phoenix), and K has included some new wrinkles. And I don't see that much similarity between VT's offense last year and ours this year. They only averaged 71.4 ppg and 13.2 apg.

We're averaging 85 ppg and 16 apg this season.

I forget the guys' names, one was Dondell I think, don't recall the other's. Both penetrated from the wing to the foul lane area, either pulled up, went to the basket, or kicked out if things had collapsed. The ball was then rotated to an open shooter, or one of the other of the two penetrated. That is similar in concept to what Duke has going from the wing position with Henderson, Nelson, and Scheyer.

I didn't say Greenberg invented anything. I said he employed something similar. I also said, because I have admired him since his days at USF, that he is a terrific coach, both as a strategist and a facilitator of smart/effective play.

In this context, I would not be surprised if Virginia Tech's defense gives Duke a surprisingly hard time, because, while it might be suprising to some, it won't to me.

[jipops]

I forget the guys' names, one was Dondell I think, don't recall the other's. Both penetrated from the wing to the foul lane area, either pulled up, went to the basket, or kicked out if things had collapsed. The ball was then rotated to an open shooter, or one of the other of the two penetrated. That is similar in concept to what Duke has going from the wing position with Henderson, Nelson, and Scheyer.


Dowdell was his name, I think his first name was Zabian or something - kid gave us fits.

No question, tonight will be a very tough matchup. I expect our offense may have a tough time executing at times, it could be up to the D tonight.

[77devil]

Seems to me that Greenberg employed an offense last year that is quite similar to Duke's this year, with his two big scorers (both guards) dribbling from the wings to the foul lane and then deciding whether to pull up, take it all the way, or innitiate inside out play. If Greenberg came up with that offense, what's the chance he'll deploy his guys to effectively defend it? Pretty good, right?

Don't be surprised if Tech gives Duke a surprisingly tough run.

Nope, I haven't seen them play this year, but Greenberg can, as the ball coach used to put it, "coach 'em up."

I think your mired in the past as usual. Tech doesn't have the talent this year to execute the offense and defend as in the last 2 years.

[whereinthehellami]

Here are two write-ups from Techsideline about the match-up:


Duke-VT: Always intense, never boring (http://subscr.techsideline.com/news_archive/showArticle-3436.php)

Duke-VT Preview (http://subscr.techsideline.com/news_archive/showArticle-3433.php)

[loran16]

Dowdell was his name, I think his first name was Zabian or something - kid gave us fits.

No question, tonight will be a very tough matchup. I expect our offense may have a tough time executing at times, it could be up to the D tonight.

Yep, Zabian Dowdell. He was the player who taunted the student section during the timeout before the dock shot, and he played the next year with a fire under his ^$%^$%^$% to prove he was good.

Without him, and allen out, we SHOULD beat VT. I won't say Will, because the ACC is a conference where ANY ACC team can beat any other ACC team on a good night.

[pamtar]

Thanks whereinthe. Looks like they have only a few (2) big bodies so hopefully our rebounding will be better this game. Overall, I dont think they can match our quickness 1 through 5. Our chances look good although, as previously posted, they will get up for this game.

I hope Deron Washington doesn't bring his bad attitude. He makes games against them so hard to watch (aka I get mad)!

[Troublemaker]

I agree with the folks that think Duke matches up well with VT. Duke could certainly come out and play horribly or even just shoot horribly and allow VT to stay in the game, but even in the vast majority of those cases, Duke would still pull out the win, imo. VT's problem is their offense is anemic, which ends up helping out Duke's offense. What I mean is even in those games where Duke shoots poorly, VT's turnovers and missed shots will fuel enough Duke points going the other way to compensate. And in the games where Duke has a good shooting game, VT doesn't have enough firepower to keep up.

I feel that with this Duke team, in order for an underdog opponent to have a decent chance of winning, it must meet a certain threshold of offensive effectiveness. The underdog's best chance for winning is to catch Duke on a bad shooting day and then not allow Duke to make up for it with easy fastbreak points off turnovers and missed shots. I don't think VT meets that threshold of offensive effectiveness and therefore they have a poor chance of winning against Duke, not a decent one. Poor chance obviously doesn't mean 0% chance, though.

As an aside, Duke is an 8.5-pt favorite in tonight's game.

[greybeard]

I think your mired in the past as usual. Tech doesn't have the talent this year to execute the offense and defend as in the last 2 years.

Cuse me Dvil77, but all I said was that Virginia Tech is likely to defend Duke in an effective manner that might surprise people. I gave reasons that have nothing to do with the past except that Greenberg is very familiar with key elements of Duke's offense this year since he employed them last year.

I also think that it is wrong to underestimate Greenberg's ability to coach em up; he is, in my opinion, the best newcomer the ACC has seen in years.

Should you disagree with any of this why would I not be surprised. It would be nice while you accuse me of "living in the past" that you get what I said a little bit accurately. But, at the risk of being accused again of "living in the past," why should you start now. ;)

[SilkyJ]

washington has been killing us, im glad he's a senior and wont be back next year.
does anyone think lance can develop his game to that of washington? or are their games totally different.

i dont know if their games are completely different, but washington is a way better shooter and slasher, and lance, even though he's kinda skinny, is post player who prefers the ball with his back to basket and never more then 10 feet from it. Washington can also outjump lance by a lot.



I'd also like to see Nolan get a lot of point time today. He played very well last game running the point.


agreed. He keeps playing the way he is, its gonna be hard to keep him from starting.


This and Maryland upcoming are great tests for our warriors, and in my opinion Tech tonight is going to play with great effort despite not having Allen.

dth.

I almost wish they had Allen b/c even with him I think we win, but it would provide more of a test and I think we would improve more as a result, and possibly be able to take more away from this game. Without him, if we win as expected by a solid margin, then its just us "beating up on a way inferior team" and there's no real good takeaways, other than a road win.


If Greenberg came up with that offense, what's the chance he'll deploy his guys to effectively defend it? Pretty good, right?

Don't be surprised if Tech gives Duke a surprisingly tough run.

Nope, I haven't seen them play this year, but Greenberg can, as the ball coach used to put it, "coach 'em up."

As to the first part, that logic makes sense, but I fee like the saying "a taste of their own medicine" applies here, meaning, don't they say that teams that are good at doing one thing usually aren't good when they face it? For example, playing zone against a zone team? I don't know, maybe I'm reaching here...

As to the 2nd/3rd part, I think 77devil's statement is just as much referring to this part as the 1st part. Tech of old (i.e. the past) might have given us a tough run, but it just aint gonna happen this year...

[CDu]

washington has been killing us, im glad he's a senior and wont be back next year.
does anyone think lance can develop his game to that of washington? or are their games totally different.

I don't really see great similarities between the two players. Washington's game is based on his ridiculous vertical, and he's more of a slasher. Thomas doesn't have Washington's vertical, and he's more of a post player. Not that Thomas isn't really athletic - it's just that Washington has freakish hops. When/if the light really goes off for Thomas, I see more of an Antonio Lang type of player than a Deron Washington type of player.

[SilkyJ]

I don't really see great similarities between the two players. Washington's game is based on his ridiculous vertical, and he's more of a slasher. Thomas doesn't have Washington's vertical, and he's more of a post player. Not that Thomas isn't really athletic - it's just that Washington has freakish hops. When/if the light really goes off for Thomas, I see more of an Antonio Lang type of player than a Deron Washington type of player.

copycat :p

I like the comparison with lang though. much closer to lang than washington.

[greybeard]

i dont know if their games are completely different, but washington is a way better shooter and slasher, and lance, even though he's kinda skinny, is post player who prefers the ball with his back to basket and never more then 10 feet from it. Washington can also outjump lance by a lot.



agreed. He keeps playing the way he is, its gonna be hard to keep him from starting.



I almost wish they had Allen b/c even with him I think we win, but it would provide more of a test and I think we would improve more as a result, and possibly be able to take more away from this game. Without him, if we win as expected by a solid margin, then its just us "beating up on a way inferior team" and there's no real good takeaways, other than a road win.



As to the first part, that logic makes sense, but I fee like the saying "a taste of their own medicine" applies here, meaning, don't they say that teams that are good at doing one thing usually aren't good when they face it? For example, playing zone against a zone team? I don't know, maybe I'm reaching here...

As to the 2nd/3rd part, I think 77devil's statement is just as much referring to this part as the 1st part. Tech of old (i.e. the past) might have given us a tough run, but it just aint gonna happen this year...

As to your first point, I don't agree with it, at least in this instance. Seth is not yet fully appreciated for the coach that he is and he will have his guys ready to deploy defensively in a manner that bespeaks that accumen and his familiarity with the general style of Duke's half-court attack.

As for points 2 and 3, like I said at the outset, I really have not seen VT play this season.

It remains the case that I will not be surprised if VT defends Duke well in the half court; from what you guys are saying, I also will not be surprised if they don't, or if it don't come close to mattering, if they do. (say what?)

What remains then of my original post is that I like Seth as a coach a whole lot, and don't think that he has yet been given his due from fans around the league.

[CDu]

copycat :p

I like the comparison with lang though. much closer to lang than washington.

Yeah, you beat me to the punch. Glad to see someone agreed with me though. :)

[77devil]

Cuse me Dvil77, but all I said was that Virginia Tech is likely to defend Duke in an effective manner that might surprise people. I gave reasons that have nothing to do with the past except that Greenberg is very familiar with key elements of Duke's offense this year since he employed them last year.

I also think that it is wrong to underestimate Greenberg's ability to coach em up; he is, in my opinion, the best newcomer the ACC has seen in years.

Should you disagree with any of this why would I not be surprised. It would be nice while you accuse me of "living in the past" that you get what I said a little bit accurately. But, at the risk of being accused again of "living in the past," why should you start now. ;)

Whatever. I still don't see any relevance in you orignial post to the outcome of the contest at hand.

[phaedrus]

Yeah, you beat me to the punch. Glad to see someone agreed with me though. :)

actually, i think LT is more of a mid-range player who is trying to play like a post player. it's part of the reason he's been slow to develop. i would like to see him get the ball more 10-15 feet from the hoop, where he can pop a short jumper or blow by his man.

[greybeard]

Whatever. I still don't see any relevance in you orignial post to the outcome of the contest at hand.

Good point. None was intended nor implied. If one is only interested in outcomes, why watch, I always say. Given your nuanced appreciation of the game, I'd have to guess that so would you, 77duke, so would you.

[Surfsideron]

I'm new to this forum but not new to Duke basketball or the ACC.

I love this Duke team but their inability to rebound is bound to spell a loss in almost any game. Coach K has apparently accepted that his team cannot compete on the boards and thus he has implemented an aggressive perimeter defense to hopefully overcome the rebounding disparity. This worked well in both the FSU and Clemson games, however, if the Devils should suffer a bad shooting night or they run into guards who can handle the pressure or God forbid, both, then our boys are going to have a rough go. I don't see VT or even Maryland being able to handle the pressure, so hopefully we'll get by this week.

Just for another talking point: I think Jon Scheyer is Duke's MVP thus far this season.

[CDu]

I'm new to this forum but not new to Duke basketball or the ACC.

I love this Duke team but their inability to rebound is bound to spell a loss in almost any game. Coach K has apparently accepted that his team cannot compete on the boards and thus he has implemented an aggressive perimeter defense to hopefully overcome the rebounding disparity. This worked well in both the FSU and Clemson games, however, if the Devils should suffer a bad shooting night or they run into guards who can handle the pressure or God forbid, both, then our boys are going to have a rough go. I don't see VT or even Maryland being able to handle the pressure, so hopefully we'll get by this week.

Just for another talking point: I think Jon Scheyer is Duke's MVP thus far this season.


Welcome aboard. Good points about the boards and pressure perimeter defense. I agree - hopefully we'll force enough turnovers against Va Tech and Maryland that rebounding won't be a problem.

As for team MVP, Nelson gets my vote. That said, one of the strengths of this team is that so many different players can beat you this year. Scheyer is certainly one of those players.

[Devils8780]

Haven't seen Tech play this year either. There might be a handful of players in the country more athletic than Washington.

I see Duke winning a close game.

[CDu]

Haven't seen Tech play this year either. There might be a handful of players in the country more athletic than Washington.

I see Duke winning a close game.

If this is a close game, it will be either because Va Tech is playing out of their minds or because we're playing poorly (or both). There's no reason we shouldn't get out in front comfortably and run away and hide.

Va Tech simply lacks the backcourt play or post play to beat us. They have two good players (Vasaillo and Washington), but we have players athletic enough to take them out of the game. Then at every other spot I'd give us the edge (including in terms of depth).

I'm not saying that a close game won't happen - anything can happen in the ACC. I'm just saying that it shouldn't happen.

[RockyMtDevil]

This game will come down to how mentally tough our young team can be in a fairly hostile environment. FSU was loud, but Cassell is intimate. I'm not too worried, unless we are brutally cold from the field and someone other than Washington just goes Bootsy on us, I can see us winning by double digits.

I hope we press and apply our pace to the game, forcing Tech's young guards to run with us, if so, we'll run away with it...

RockyMtDevil

[speedevil]

actually, i think LT is more of a mid-range player who is trying to play like a post player. it's part of the reason he's been slow to develop. i would like to see him get the ball more 10-15 feet from the hoop, where he can pop a short jumper or blow by his man.

you must be talking about mcclure because eventhough i would love to see lance "blow by his man" but i dont think he has the handles to do that yet. lance might be the one player that coach k will bench if he took a short jumper. i think he should focus on defensive and offensive rebounding, and try to get some putbacks on the offensive end. anyways if lance ever becomes the player washington is, i would be very proud of him.

[Ben63]

My math teacher/ bowling coach went to VT. Had a heated discussion today in class. Duke never plays well in Blacksburg but I think we are better than we have been in the past.

Go Duke.

[jzp5079]

we should just get a live chat room going for this board. its good having 10 commentators at a time to give me in game details when I'm in the library trying to get my life together.

[jzp5079]

from the look of the box score... looks like the pace is a bit slow so far?

[Classof06]

The way they're calling fouls, our depth's gonna be tested tonight...

Lance is playing great, by the way and how about Nolan with the third time being the charn?

[SilkyJ]

from the look of the box score... looks like the pace is a bit slow so far?

There is a chat, silly. go to the fron page and and look the thread titled "DBR Chat 7pm EST" there is a link there

I beleive th url is www.snrub.com

[SilkyJ]

It remains the case that I will not be surprised if VT defends Duke well in the half court; from what you guys are saying, I also will not be surprised if they don't, or if it don't come close to mattering, if they do. (say what?)

What remains then of my original post is that I like Seth as a coach a whole lot, and don't think that he has yet been given his due from fans around the league.

oddly enough, I actually understoodified what you meant there.


actually, i think LT is more of a mid-range player who is trying to play like a post player. it's part of the reason he's been slow to develop. i would like to see him get the ball more 10-15 feet from the hoop, where he can pop a short jumper or blow by his man.

i guess, but i mean, he can't dribble or shoot so...

[jzp5079]

thxs

[grossbus]

"I think your mired in the past as usual. Tech doesn't have the talent this year to execute the offense and defend as in the last 2 years."

gee, how do you esplain them being down only 4 at half?? :)


this is exactly the kind of game i was expecting...and concerned about.

[weezie]

Lord have mercy. WHAT in the H*** kind of fouls are these refs calling?!

[grossbus]

regardless of the fouls being called (or not), we better starting making our foul shots.

[Karl Beem]

Simply horrendous officiating.

[grossbus]

these officials are nutz

[dukegirlinsc]

This game is F*****G ridiculous.
Hockey? Football? UFC?

And the VT fans are being classy, as always.

[Cali-Duke]

chanting bs when singler was tripped up is unnecessary

how classy

[Channing]

why? it was a BS intentional foul call. It was a foul, but not an intentional.

[DukeBeliever]

Can anyone tell me why these V-Tech fans hate Paulus so much? What the hell did Greg do to them?

BTW, they are complete punks.

[dukegirlinsc]

Can anyone tell me why these V-Tech fans hate Paulus so much? What the hell did Greg do to them?

BTW, they are complete punks.

He probably didn't do anything in particular...gotta have someone to pick on.;)

[freedevil]

He shoved Washington early on after Washington shoved him.

I love that Paulus, perceived by many to be slow and soft, refuses to put up with people's BS. He's tougher than hell.

[dukegirlinsc]

He shoved Washington early on after Washington shoved him.

I love that Paulus, perceived by many to be slow and soft, refuses to put up with people's BS. He's tougher than hell.

He totally is...

He may makes some mistakes, and has a temper at times...but he's one of the toughest Duke players I've seen in a while. LOVE IT. 5'8" or 7'8", he's not backin down.

[freedevil]

Paulus' execution of the spread offense is so much better tonight than I've ever seen.

[grossbus]

one of the very few times i have been in agreement with an early stall ball. the way this game is being called, i think it is the right move. we gotta hit foul shots, though.

[bloodevil]

We refuse to be Punk'd! Nothing like last year. I love it!

[Karl Beem]

Keep booing Paulus, twits.:cool:

[77devil]

"I think your mired in the past as usual. Tech doesn't have the talent this year to execute the offense and defend as in the last 2 years."

gee, how do you esplain them being down only 4 at half?? :)


this is exactly the kind of game i was expecting...and concerned about.

Because basketball is a game of two halves.

[CrazyCat]

I have to agree on a number of accounts here. First off, yelling BS, just shows how much class Tech doesn't have, and why Duke fans are ranked some of the best in the country. We are mopping the floor with Tech at the moment, so they can yell it all they want. As for Paulus, all I can say is, it is about time. Finally he is really starting to come out and come into his own. He has played one hell of a game tonight.

[dukegirlinsc]

I can't even tell if Duke has played well or not. For the most part I'm satisfied and feel, aside from free throws, everything went smoothly. (At least strategy-wise...) It's hard to analyze such a ticky-tacky called game...with such...CHAOS.