Tough to praise a Tar Heel, but...

[dkbaseball]

Hubert Davis is a terrific analyst, IMO. Very admirable career as a player too. Coming out of high school he was a marginal prospect, with a good chance never to start at UNC, but ended up as a senior with, what, the best single season scoring average by anybody to play for Dean Smith? Then, was it 15 years or so in the NBA? I also think he has great comedic timing in the little ESPN spoof ads, playing off of Bilas and Tim Tebow.

[cspan37421]

He is good. Another former nemesis I've found to be very knowledgable is Greg Anthony.

I like Bilas too, at least when he's in his "cub reporter" mode. I think he catches a bit of grief from some of us Crazies since sometimes frank assessments hit a raw nerve. I haven't heard him do color or play-by-play and I see that it is a recent source of great criticism directed at him. I've not found him to go too far in praising the other team or pointing out Duke's deficiencies, but then again, I've not heard every sportscast he's made.

[freedevil]

We probably ought to edit the title of this thread. I hate UNC as much as the next guy, but I don't want this board to ever look anything like TDD in terms of maturity.

As for Hubert, I find him sort of boring. Just my opinion.

[WiJoe]

I don't think he adds much. His laugh is over the top. He doesn't add much to the the studio show or game day. He's also not very accurate. In other words, perfect for the four-letter network. I've posted this at other sites: I'm happy to have DirecTV. I can watch a lot of games on the family of Fox Sports Nets. I don't have to turn down the sound, and don't have to put up with the ESPN attitude.

[Classof06]

Davis is pretty good. His analysis is usually on-point and he does a good job of talking about a lot of different schools, not just the same 4 everyone's been talking about all year. Most of all, I think he meshes well with Jay Bilas and Digger Phelps. There are many, many ESPN personalities worse than Hubert Davis.

That being said, his laugh on the air is a little bit over the top. That's actually pretty funny someone else pointed that out, I thought it was just me.

[hc5duke]

I dunno, I lost some respect for him when he placed us 11th (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=11&pollId=1&show=first) last week, when no one else had us lower than 7. We'll see if we break through his top 10 this week.

[HK Dukie]

I agree with Schrute over there. After seeing his inexplicably low ranking of Duke in the Power 16 last week I figured he can't get over his own bias.

So I will sink to his level. He sucks. :D

[elvis14]

Can we get this post moved over to Inside Carolina? Or at least to some board that talks about announcers and not basketball? :D

9F <-- try to remember that!

[gw67]

I saw Hubert play high school basketball for Lake Braddock in Northern Virginia and I played against his dad in an adult league many years ago when I could run and jump(?). He was a good high school player against so-so competition and I believe that he was recruited by Dean because he was Walter Davis’ nephew. Like many low rated prospects, Hubert did not play much as a freshman but Dean gave him a chance as a soph and he blossomed as a player, eventually, averaging over 21ppg as a senior. Hubert was not particularly quick nor a great jumper but he was fundamentally strong and a good shooter. He was one of those players who one would not think would make the pros but, as dkbaseball correctly pointed out, he played in the NBA for many years. I like him as a studio commentator.

gw67

[Olympic Fan]

I think Davis has a nice personality on camera, but I don't think he brings a lot of insight to his job. He's the master of the obvious ... and he does wrestle with his Carolina bias a bit.

Just last Saturday, he's gushing about Tyler Hansbrough as the best player in college basketball. No problem there -- like him or hate him, Hansbrough is a valid candidate for NPOY. But what shook me was Davis' reasoning -- it was not that Hansbrough was a great offensive player and a solid rebounder (which he is), but in Davis' words, "it's because he's the best player in the country at both ends of the court."

Now, you have to see the world through Carolina Blue eyes to rave about Hansbrough's defense (I haven't even heard Ol' Roy go there). And if you watched James Gist and Bombale Osby score at will against the Heels inside last Saturday (and constantly beat him down the court), you got a taste of Hansbrough's defensive limitations. Again, not a knock on Hansbrough -- JJ Redick wasn't Billy King at the defensive end, but he was the legit NPOY.

But I question a national "analyst" who knows so little about the game (or is so biased that he can't see clearly) to make such a fundamentally flawed claim.

[Indoor66]

I saw Hubert play high school basketball for Lake Braddock in Northern Virginia and I played against his dad in an adult league many years ago when I could run and jump(?). He was a good high school player against so-so competition and I believe that he was recruited by Dean because he was Walter Davis’ nephew. Like many low rated prospects, Hubert did not play much as a freshman but Dean gave him a chance as a soph and he blossomed as a player, eventually, averaging over 21ppg as a senior. Hubert was not particularly quick nor a great jumper but he was fundamentally strong and a good shooter. He was one of those players who one would not think would make the pros but, as dkbaseball correctly pointed out, he played in the NBA for many years. I like him as a studio commentator.

gw67

I find him to have a sanctimony about him that does not allow me to ever forget that he is a tar heel born, a tar heel breed, and when he dies he will be a tar heel dead! For that reason I don't place him in my favorites, though he is far above the usual panderers I hear on ESPN.

[dkbaseball]

I think Davis has a nice personality on camera, but I don't think he brings a lot of insight to his job. He's the master of the obvious ... and he does wrestle with his Carolina bias a bit.

Just last Saturday, he's gushing about Tyler Hansbrough as the best player in college basketball. No problem there -- like him or hate him, Hansbrough is a valid candidate for NPOY. But what shook me was Davis' reasoning -- it was not that Hansbrough was a great offensive player and a solid rebounder (which he is), but in Davis' words, "it's because he's the best player in the country at both ends of the court."

Now, you have to see the world through Carolina Blue eyes to rave about Hansbrough's defense (I haven't even heard Ol' Roy go there). And if you watched James Gist and Bombale Osby score at will against the Heels inside last Saturday (and constantly beat him down the court), you got a taste of Hansbrough's defensive limitations. Again, not a knock on Hansbrough -- JJ Redick wasn't Billy King at the defensive end, but he was the legit NPOY.

But I question a national "analyst" who knows so little about the game (or is so biased that he can't see clearly) to make such a fundamentally flawed claim.

He was very critical of Carolina's defense yesterday, and offered high praise for Duke. Said VPI has no chance against Duke in Blacksburg.

I also saw him play for Lake Braddock and was very underwhelmed.

[Devils8780]

Davis was pretty funny in that ESPN Gameday promo with Tim Tebow this past weekend. I agree, he does very well as an analyst.

[Olympic Fan]

He was very critical of Carolina's defense yesterday, and offered high praise for Duke. Said VPI has no chance against Duke in Blacksburg.

VPI has "no chance" against Duke at home?

This is what passes for informed analysis in your eyes?

Come on. It's one thing to talk about reasons why Duke is a tough matchup for Virginia Tech, but to suggest the Hokies can't win a game in front of a roaring crowd at home??? After Maryland wins at Carolina, shouldn't a professional analyst understand that nothing is certain in this day and age?

It's also great bulletin board material for the Hokies ... which could be more evidence of Davis' UNC bias.

Dean Smith loved stuff like this -- one of John Feinstein's favorite Dean Smith stories is about how in 1979 Smith called Art Chansky, the UNC grad who was editor of the Durham Morning Herald, and suggested he write a column saying UNC had "no chance" to beat No. 1 Duke in Durham -- then Smith used the column to fire up his players and pulled off the upset.

Now Seth Greenberg can go to his players and point out how ESPN thinks they have "no chance" against Duke. Great. Thanks for the praise, Hubert.

[dkbaseball]

VPI has "no chance" against Duke at home?

This is what passes for informed analysis in your eyes?

Come on. It's one thing to talk about reasons why Duke is a tough matchup for Virginia Tech, but to suggest the Hokies can't win a game in front of a roaring crowd at home??? After Maryland wins at Carolina, shouldn't a professional analyst understand that nothing is certain in this day and age?

It's also great bulletin board material for the Hokies ... which could be more evidence of Davis' UNC bias.

Dean Smith loved stuff like this -- one of John Feinstein's favorite Dean Smith stories is about how in 1979 Smith called Art Chansky, the UNC grad who was editor of the Durham Morning Herald, and suggested he write a column saying UNC had "no chance" to beat No. 1 Duke in Durham -- then Smith used the column to fire up his players and pulled off the upset.

Now Seth Greenberg can go to his players and point out how ESPN thinks they have "no chance" against Duke. Great. Thanks for the praise, Hubert.

The scales begin to fall from my eyes. I'll be casting a jaundiced eye on his commentary from now on. But didn't Duke win 27-20 in Durham in 1979?

[johnb]

I like our high ranking and am really enjoying the season, but I don't think I'd rank us #3, at least until we beat a top 10 team.

[Indoor66]

I like our high ranking and am really enjoying the season, but I don't think I'd rank us #3, at least until we beat a top 10 team.

Why not? They ranked the Heels #1 when they hadn't beaten anyone!

[gw67]

I personally agree with Hubert's assessment of the Hokies chances against Duke at home. Neither Sagarin nor Pomeroy think much of their chances either. They predict Duke by 10-11 points. Tech will be without their best inside player and they have a freshmen backcourt. If the game was at CIS, I expect that these youngsters would be turnover machines. In Blacksburg, a 10-11 point victory seems about right.

gw67

[Olympic Fan]

The scales begin to fall from my eyes. I'll be casting a jaundiced eye on his commentary from now on. But didn't Duke win 27-20 in Durham in 1979?

Sorry ... I got the year wrong ... think it was 1980 -- it was definitely before a January matchup in Cameron. And BTW, the 1979 score was 47-40 (after Duke led 7-0 at the half).

As for the Sagarin and Pomeroy predictions -- there's a big difference between saying Duke should be a 10-11 point favorite and saying they have "no chance"

[EarlJam]

I agree with Schrute over there. After seeing his inexplicably low ranking of Duke in the Power 16 last week I figured he can't get over his own bias.

So I will sink to his level. He sucks. :D

Hubert Davis. May he burn in Hell.

-EarlJam

[BlueDevilJay]

Why not? They ranked the Heels #1 when they hadn't beaten anyone!

Thank you, you took the words right out of my mouth there. UNC has defeated ONE ranked team this season at this point, and they have only played ONE ranked team at this point. Told my buddies it would cost them come conference time, but NOOOOOO they were going undefeated!! The tears streaming at the DD on Saturday were so beautiful.

[greybeard]

I think Davis has a real appreciation of how the little things can make a huge difference, can id when those type things are at play on occasion, identify them, and give a sound bite explanation as to why the little thing wasn't so little.

I think that Davis managed to make lots of different little things work for him as a player that allowed him to be effective at both ends and that he sees Hansbrough operating in a similar fashion at both ends. So, he extrapolates, if seeing and acting upon the little things allowed me to compete in a league with the likes of MJ for 15 years, and this guy who has so much more going for him utilizes similar awarenesses to make himself that much more effective on both ends, he sees that as truly extraordinary. It is also prevocative when he says it in a soundbite.

So, maybe H's ability to draw fouls or find space for an awkward but successful shot on one end, and make people miss or stop incoming passes to ideal spots on the other end, are of one piece in Davis's mind, that he sees as making H a truly extraordinary player. If so, a perspective on player effectiveness that measuring different aspects of athleticism can never account for.

I think that Davis is above average as a talking head. If he and Bilas were on less, I'd like them both more.

[dukestheheat]

hubert davis was a great basketball player and he was also a cameron crazy favorite. he was injured at duke one year on the court, and he was having trouble getting up and he just had to sit there for a few minutes. soon, the crazies did a great 'hubert davis' (clap 5) cheer and he heard it, was motivated by it, and i swear that helped that class player get up off of the floor.

dth.

[oli-p]

I think Davis has a nice personality on camera, but I don't think he brings a lot of insight to his job. He's the master of the obvious ... and he does wrestle with his Carolina bias a bit.

Just last Saturday, he's gushing about Tyler Hansbrough as the best player in college basketball. No problem there -- like him or hate him, Hansbrough is a valid candidate for NPOY. But what shook me was Davis' reasoning -- it was not that Hansbrough was a great offensive player and a solid rebounder (which he is), but in Davis' words, "it's because he's the best player in the country at both ends of the court."

Now, you have to see the world through Carolina Blue eyes to rave about Hansbrough's defense (I haven't even heard Ol' Roy go there). And if you watched James Gist and Bombale Osby score at will against the Heels inside last Saturday (and constantly beat him down the court), you got a taste of Hansbrough's defensive limitations. Again, not a knock on Hansbrough -- JJ Redick wasn't Billy King at the defensive end, but he was the legit NPOY.

But I question a national "analyst" who knows so little about the game (or is so biased that he can't see clearly) to make such a fundamentally flawed claim.

I love the defensive limitations comment because he came up against talented big men that could score. Shelden Williams was two time national player of the year and yet in his senior year when he met up with people his size that had talent he got torched. If anyone doesn't remember the games he got lit up for some career games were Indiana, FSU twice, UNC, and NCSU. Hansbrough is as a solid NPOY candidate as JJ ever was. Part of the other end of the floor is rebounding as well.

As far as Davis saying Duke is not a top ten team. Maybe he sees what happened last year when Duke was so overrated it was scary. I like watching Duke and they are a very good team, but without any strength in the middle they will not beat a top 10 team. I called it on ESPN last year and I am saying it again this year. Carolina will beat Duke twice this year.

[Lotus000]

I love the defensive limitations comment because he came up against talented big men that could score. Shelden Williams was two time national player of the year and yet in his senior year when he met up with people his size that had talent he got torched. If anyone doesn't remember the games he got lit up for some career games were Indiana, FSU twice, UNC, and NCSU. Hansbrough is as a solid NPOY candidate as JJ ever was. Part of the other end of the floor is rebounding as well.

As far as Davis saying Duke is not a top ten team. Maybe he sees what happened last year when Duke was so overrated it was scary. I like watching Duke and they are a very good team, but without any strength in the middle they will not beat a top 10 team. I called it on ESPN last year and I am saying it again this year. Carolina will beat Duke twice this year.

I don't know about all that... Is Duke overrated at 3? Yeah, probably. I also think Memphis is way overrated at 1, but we'll have to get used to it because they play in the C-USA and I don't see them losing anytime soon. Carolina is probably the best team in the country right now. However, I think we still have a solid top-10 team, and should definitely not slip past a 2-seed at the tourney this year.

As far as playing v. Carolina, I think we'll have a home-home split. Carolina just DOESN'T play defense like we do, and a lot of the time (excluding the D'oh!erty years) you can sort of throw talent out the window--it all comes down to who wants it more, really. UNC and Duke have both had some crap-tastic teams that beat the 8-mile-rival when the 'more talented' team was incredibly favored.

[alteran]

Dean Smith loved stuff like this -- one of John Feinstein's favorite Dean Smith stories is about how in 1979 Smith called Art Chansky, the UNC grad who was editor of the Durham Morning Herald, and suggested he write a column saying UNC had "no chance" to beat No. 1 Duke in Durham -- then Smith used the column to fire up his players and pulled off the upset.

Yeah, that was very low on behalf of Dean Smith. Color me shocked. He has said since that he really regrets doing that. I'm reminded of that old saw, "does he regret that he did it, or regret that he got caught?" Maybe he sincerely regrets it. It still burns me up-- more because of Chansky because of Smith.

People call you crazy because you say the paper is out to get your team, then you find out about this. Then the guy goes to work for UNC sports information/marketing/whatever. What a tool.

Getting back to Hubert Davis, I bump into him frequently because our kids both go to the same school and we pick them up at the same time. Hubert is one of the nicest guys I've ever met, and this is coming from someone who (obviously) has trouble letting the rivalry go.

Regarding Hubert's work on ESPN, my standards for ESPN are very, very low-- to me, a good ESPN commentator is one who either a) isn't Dick Vitale, or b) doesn't passive-aggressively try to fuel the Duke officiating conspiracy at every opportunity.

Hubert Davis passes that test with flying colors.

[jjasper0729]

Shelden Williams was two time national player of the year and yet in his senior year when he met up with people his size that had talent he got torched. If anyone doesn't remember the games he got lit up for some career games were Indiana, FSU twice, UNC, and NCSU.

the thing that gets lost in this argument is that when Shelden was in the middle, he was basically playing a one man zone. he would come over and help as the last line of defense and his man may have received the pass or was able to get a rebound and put back because shel had moved to block the shot or step in on a drive.

It's actually spelled out pretty good in Feather's book with his piece on Shelden's greatest game (just finished the book... VERY good).

[Devilsfan]

To me it's the "Bias and Bilas" show.

[77devil]

I dunno, I lost some respect for him when he placed us 11th (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=11&pollId=1&show=first) last week, when no one else had us lower than 7. We'll see if we break through his top 10 this week.

Well Ol' Hubert moved us up to 10 and moved the Holes up from 4 to 3. The guy has no credibility.

[devildeac]

recent espn commercial:

davis(to Jay Bilas): hey, Duke boy(in an obvious demeaning insulting voice/tone)

end of credibility

[Classof06]

I love the defensive limitations comment because he came up against talented big men that could score. Shelden Williams was two time national player of the year and yet in his senior year when he met up with people his size that had talent he got torched. If anyone doesn't remember the games he got lit up for some career games were Indiana, FSU twice, UNC, and NCSU. Hansbrough is as a solid NPOY candidate as JJ ever was. Part of the other end of the floor is rebounding as well.

As far as Davis saying Duke is not a top ten team. Maybe he sees what happened last year when Duke was so overrated it was scary. I like watching Duke and they are a very good team, but without any strength in the middle they will not beat a top 10 team. I called it on ESPN last year and I am saying it again this year. Carolina will beat Duke twice this year.

First of all, with Shelden Williams, what people don't understand is that Duke left Shelden completely on an island in all of those games. In fact, Duke asked more of Shelden defensively than any college player I can ever remember. He had to step up on penetrations, had absolutely no help defense and had to guard his man on a complete island. I've heard oli-p's argument by many people and you have to look deeper than the box score in these games. Not to mention, with a freshman Paulus and Redick on the perimeter, you had what many might consider two defensive liabilities.

I think Duke is undoubtedly a Top 10 team and I find it hilarious how people say Tennessee can win it all but Duke can't without realizing that these two teams are EXTREMELY similar. We're a buzzer beater 3 away from being undefeated and have already played 4 top 25 teams; that ain't overrated. I think it's very plausible that Duke gets swept by Carolina this year, more plausible than a lot of people on these boards might think. But to say Duke is overrated means you haven't watched them play. IMO, they could lose to UNC and still not be overrated.

[BlueDevilJay]

Hubert once again placed us down at 10th this week in his Power Poll ranking....I mean seriously, can you make your bias a little less obvious?? Overall we ranked 3rd this week, one ahead of UNC, but his and Bilas ranking of Duke once again this week points to their disdain of the program. (And for the record, LAST week Davis did not include Duke in his top 16 whatsoever, which even the most ardent Duke hater would say Duke is among the top 16 teams in college basketball)

[Indoor66]

Hubert once again placed us down at 10th this week in his Power Poll ranking....I mean seriously, can you make your bias a little less obvious?? Overall we ranked 3rd this week, one ahead of UNC, but his and Bilas ranking of Duke once again this week points to their disdain of the program. (And for the record, LAST week Davis did not include Duke in his top 16 whatsoever, which even the most ardent Duke hater would say Duke is among the top 16 teams in college basketball)

Never can understand Seth Davis. He must have been unhappy as a Duke student. Did he have a problem with K?

[BlueDevilJay]

Nah this was Hubert Davis, who claims to be unbiased.

[houstondukie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=12&pollId=1&show=first

Hubert has us at #10 in the most recent power rankings. Interestingly, he has UNC at #3 even after a home loss to unranked Maryland. I think some people on DBR would like Jay Bilas to be more pro-Duke in the same way Hubie is clearly pro-Carolina.

[heath_harshman4]

And Jay Bilas' had UNC at #1 until they lost...

Come on Hubie, do the Jay and Over-Do showing your un-biased opinoin.

[BlueDevilJay]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=12&pollId=1&show=first

Hubert has us at #10 in the most recent power rankings. Interestingly, he has UNC at #3 even after a home loss to unranked Maryland. I think some people on DBR would like Jay Bilas to be more pro-Duke in the same way Hubie is clearly pro-Carolina.

Yeah that is what I was referring to in the post just above yours. He didn't even have us in his top 16 teams in the country last week.

[MacDougal]

All these guys root openly for their former teams. Even when Bilas is doing his "let me be fair in assessing Duke" routine, you can read between the lines, he's reaching out to show he's fairminded. Same with Davis and the rest. Not that they're insincere -- they're just compromised. The way of the world...

[dukeENG2003]

Its hard for me to see Hubert as objective when he ranks duke as #10 in the country in his power 16. Absurd.

I could understand ranking UNC ahead of us based on "potential" or some BS like that, but #10? Come on.

[hc5duke]

does hubert even watch the games any more? in the new power rankings (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking), he has Kansas ranked #1 (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=15&pollId=1&show=first), after their loss to UT. Andy Katz decided to bring Duke back up to 2 (after dropping us to #3 for no reason last week), same with Fran Fraschilla.

Also, are we really the only 1-loss team? Awesome. There are also five 2-loss teams.

[juise]

Also, are we really the only 1-loss team? Awesome. There are also five 2-loss teams.


Yeah, after Drake and Kansas fell this week, we are the only single blemish team. There are actually as many 2-loss teams as there are 3-loss teams.

2 losses (5): Kansas, Tennessee, Drake, UNC, Butler
3 Losses (5): UCLA, St. Mary's, Stanford, Georgetown, Stephen F. Austin

[topps coach]

Herbert is grea no cannot do it. Never have and never will praise a tarheel