Scheyer the spokesperson?

[wisteria]

OK.. this is just some random thought that I had when I was reading various Duke-related articles.

Is it just me or that Scheyer has appeared more and more often to talk about the team, to represent the team? I mean... of course Markie is our captain, but we all know he isn't that great at public speeches. Sorta like Shelden, I guess. But Scheyer just seems to know the right thing to say every time. And he appears a lot in those blueplanet videos too.

I like it. And I think he'll be a terrific captain when the time comes.:)

[SilkyJ]

OK.. this is just some random thought that I had when I was reading various Duke-related articles.

Is it just me or that Scheyer has appeared more and more often to talk about the team, to represent the team? I mean... of course Markie is our captain, but we all know he isn't that great at public speeches. Sorta like Shelden, I guess. But Scheyer just seems to know the right thing to say every time. And he appears a lot in those blueplanet videos too.

I like it. And I think he'll be a terrific captain when the time comes.:)

I havent really noticed it, but I have noticed that Gerald is very eloquent. I've been watching the post-game interviews every week and I think Gerald is far and away the most well spoken person on the team. Greg is pretty good too.

[crote]

This actually brings up a point I've been wondering about. Our guys always seem very, very polished in post game interviews. They handle the media really well, and always seem to give extended and interesting answers.

Given this, I wonder: do they player's get any "coaching" on how to handle the media?

[SilkyJ]

This actually brings up a point I've been wondering about. Our guys always seem very, very polished in post game interviews. They handle the media really well, and always seem to give extended and interesting answers.

Given this, I wonder: do they player's get any "coaching" on how to handle the media?

Absolutely they do and have for years.

Also remember the type of players we recruit. These are educated young men who are smart (for D-1 bball players) who come from good backgrounds and are serious about furthering their education. I think that has a lot to do with it as well.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

This actually brings up a point I've been wondering about. Our guys always seem very, very polished in post game interviews. They handle the media really well, and always seem to give extended and interesting answers.

Given this, I wonder: do they player's get any "coaching" on how to handle the media?

I do believe they are educated as to how to speak in public, including what to say, how to say it and what not to say. I hope (and believe) they are coached to lose the "you knows" and the "um's and uh's" which every youngster typically says subconsciously as a verbal pause because they don't know what they are going to say until it comes out of their mouth. Nothing more irritating than hearing a player say "you know" 15 times in a 25 second answer. Just listen to player interviews from some other teams.

The best freshman first post-game interview I have ever heard was Jason Williams'. He sounded like a senior - poised, polite and eloquent.

[Turtleboy]

Amphibious. As long as we're criticizing.:)

[jma4life]

I actually thought Demarcus was one of the better speakers on the team. Maybe he's not the best public speaker in front of something like a large banquet (not that I would know) but at press conferences or one on one interviews (at least the ones I've read/heard), he's been as well-spoken as anyone else on the team.

[wisteria]

I actually thought Demarcus was one of the better speakers on the team. Maybe he's not the best public speaker in front of something like a large banquet (not that I would know) but at press conferences or one on one interviews (at least the ones I've read/heard), he's been as well-spoken as anyone else on the team.


Maybe I was just too biased because I like Scheyer a lot. :D

I guess I didn't make myself clearly by saying Demarcus's not great at public speech. I was just trying to say that Demarcus seems to be kind of "shy", just the type of person who won't merrily chat away unless asked to. ( Not that I know anything about him personally. It's just an impression.)

By the way, I agree with the "you know" comment. Surely they use the phrase A LOT. (Maybe I would be the same if I were surrounded by dozens of reporters.)

[Lavabe]

Don't forget Scheyer's comedic appearance on DUI video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckF5M2HSA0o)! He doesn't even have to speak on that one!

Cheers,
Lavabe

[billybreen]

Don't forget Scheyer's comedic appearance on DUI video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckF5M2HSA0o)! He doesn't even have to speak on that one!

Cheers,
Lavabe

Wow, DUI still exists? I think the first DUI crew was my year ('00), and I didn't know it became an institution.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Amphibious. As long as we're criticizing.:)

Fair game for sure, but the spell checker didn't underline the word so I thought I was OK. Apparently it doesn't check the title bar. Mea culpa. I'm an engineer, dammit, not an English major.

[dukejunkie]

I do believe they are educated as to how to speak in public, including what to say, how to say it and what not to say. I hope (and believe) they are coached to lose the "you knows" and the "um's and uh's" which every youngster typically says subconsciously as a verbal pause because they don't know what they are going to say until it comes out of their mouth. Nothing more irritating than hearing a player say "you know" 15 times in a 25 second answer. Just listen to player interviews from some other teams.

The best freshman first post-game interview I have ever heard was Jason Williams'. He sounded like a senior - poised, polite and eloquent.

Ozzie- it is a fact that they are taught to lose the "you knows" and the "um's and uh's". They have been for years. Ever since taking one of my most intense, difficult, yet rewarding classes at Duke ;) (I will be impressed with whoever can figure out the class and professor), I have been peeved by the use of "like" and other fillers associated with lazy speech. It was brought to our attention that Duke makes sure that players are prepared to speak with the media in an educated manner. To this day I look for the differences between the average NBA post-game interview and a Duke alum's.

It's all part of Coach K's main draw to recruits. It's not just about basketball.

[SeattleIrish]

:( Those who blanche at the overuse of "You know...", will not enjoy the post-game interview with Gerald AT ALL. I believe it's still linked on the main page.

s.i.

[Jumbo]

Ozzie- it is a fact that they are taught to lose the "you knows" and the "um's and uh's". They have been for years. Ever since taking one of my most intense, difficult, yet rewarding classes at Duke ;) (I will be impressed with whoever can figure out the class and professor), I have been peeved by the use of "like" and other fillers associated with lazy speech. It was brought to our attention that Duke makes sure that players are prepared to speak with the media in an educated manner. To this day I look for the differences between the average NBA post-game interview and a Duke alum's.

It's all part of Coach K's main draw to recruits. It's not just about basketball.

No offense, but I think this perpetuates the "Duke as snobs" myth. There's really nothing wrong with a few "likes," "you knows" and "umms." It's not lazy speech as much as coloquial talk. In the scheme of things, it's just so minor.

[77devil]

Ever since taking one of my most intense, difficult, yet rewarding classes at Duke ;) (I will be impressed with whoever can figure out the class and professor)

My answer deppends on when you attended.

[77devil]

No offense, but I think this perpetuates the "Duke as snobs" myth. There's really nothing wrong with a few "likes," "you knows" and "umms." It's not lazy speech as much as coloquial talk. In the scheme of things, it's just so minor.

I think describing it as colloquial talk is too generous. It is a bad habit that is often indicative of poor writing skills. One technique that I suggest that people use to correct these speech habits is to read the best English prose out loud for 15 minutes a day.

[Oh Canada]

It's very refreshing to listen to the Dukies in their post gamers.

Glad we don't have any AI's on the team. "Practice. We're talking bout practice"!

[wumhenry]

I haven't read or seen the other interviews mentioned here, but I was pleasantly surprised at how well-spoken Singler is in the published transcript of a recent interview. 'Course, in a printed interview "you knows" and other semantically vacuous timefillers can be edited out.

[KenTankerous]

No offense, but I think this perpetuates the "Duke as snobs" myth. There's really nothing wrong with a few "likes," "you knows" and "umms." It's not lazy speech as much as coloquial talk. In the scheme of things, it's just so minor.

I could not disagree more with this sentiment. These are college educated young men for Christ sake! Everyone should be so well versed and eloquent as the "Duke Myth". It chaps my hide that the vast majority of basketball programs allow their players to use the foul grammer and slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals.

No, Blue Devil fans, do not dumb down your expectations on or off the court. Indeed, other programs should aspire to the level Coach K has acheived.

And having met Jon Sheyer, I think he makes an excellent spokesman for the program - humble, intelligent, genuine - and will make a great future captain.

[Lavabe]

I could not disagree more with this sentiment. These are college educated young men for Christ sake! Everyone should be so well versed and eloquent as the "Duke Myth". It chaps my hide that the vast majority of basketball programs allow their players to use the foul grammer and slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals.

No, Blue Devil fans, do not dumb down your expectations on or off the court. Indeed, other programs should aspire to the level Coach K has acheived.

And having met Jon Sheyer, I think he makes an excellent spokesman for the program - humble, intelligent, genuine - and will make a great future captain.

KT is rapidly becoming my favorite Elizabeth King poster!
Cheers,
Lavabe

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

KT is rapidly becoming my favorite Elizabeth King poster!
Cheers,
Lavabe

He'd make a great consultant, wouldn't he?

[mgtr]

I agree with KT completely. One of the reasons for a college education is education. Allowing students to get by with lazy speech, particularly in an adult and/or public setting, is shortchanging the student. It took me a long time (after college and grad school) to realize the importance of communication.

[SeattleIrish]

I could not disagree more with this sentiment. These are college educated young men for Christ sake! Everyone should be so well versed and eloquent as the "Duke Myth". It chaps my hide that the vast majority of basketball programs allow their players to use the foul grammer and slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals.

No, Blue Devil fans, do not dumb down your expectations on or off the court. Indeed, other programs should aspire to the level Coach K has acheived.

And having met Jon Sheyer, I think he makes an excellent spokesman for the program - humble, intelligent, genuine - and will make a great future captain.

KT:

While I appreciate the sentiment behind the post, the "usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals" segment means I will, from this point forward, be unable to read your posts without picturing you in a top-hat, bristled mustache, and a monocle precariously positioned in your right eye, cane brandished threateningly at the cpu monitor.

I am fortunate to teach a couple of classes as an adjunct at a much less prestigious institution (think diploma-mill-former-hoops-power-Duke-rival-'89/90), and the language of which you write is common for 18-24 year olds who may not have attended prep-school but have probably never set foot in a pool hall or participated in a drug deal. It's a sad commentary on contemporary society, but it's not associated with criminality.

s.i.

[KenTankerous]

KT is rapidly becoming my favorite Elizabeth King poster!
Cheers,
Lavabe

Aw shucks, now you went and made me blush...

[SilkyJ]

I do believe they are educated as to how to speak in public, including what to say, how to say it and what not to say. I hope (and believe) they are coached to lose the "you knows" and the "um's and uh's" which every youngster typically says subconsciously as a verbal pause because they don't know what they are going to say until it comes out of their mouth. Nothing more irritating than hearing a player say "you know" 15 times in a 25 second answer. Just listen to player interviews from some other teams.


Or listen to Demarcus. He says "you know" a couple times a sentence. let's not get too high and mighty.


I actually thought Demarcus was one of the better speakers on the team. Maybe he's not the best public speaker in front of something like a large banquet (not that I would know) but at press conferences or one on one interviews (at least the ones I've read/heard), he's been as well-spoken as anyone else on the team.

See above. Gerald is way better, imho.



I guess I didn't make myself clearly by saying Demarcus's not great at public speech. I was just trying to say that Demarcus seems to be kind of "shy", just the type of person who won't merrily chat away unless asked to. ( Not that I know anything about him personally. It's just an impression.)


your impression is pretty spot on. demarcus is a pretty shy guy and I think coach K even commented on it last year saying how hard it was to get demarcus to speak up and verbally lead.


One technique that I suggest that people use to correct these speech habits is to read the best English prose out loud for 15 minutes a day.

yea i know, u told me like, 20 times a day for, you know, my whole life.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I agree with KT completely. One of the reasons for a college education is education. Allowing students to get by with lazy speech, particularly in an adult and/or public setting, is shortchanging the student. It took me a long time (after college and grad school) to realize the importance of communication.

Ain't choo gonna check in here someplace?;)
Love, Ima

[Jumbo]

I think describing it as colloquial talk is too generous. It is a bad habit that is often indicative of poor writing skills. One technique that I suggest that people use to correct these speech habits is to read the best English prose out loud for 15 minutes a day.

I'd like to think that I'm a damn good writer. That doesn't mean that when I'm chatting with friends casually, I don't throw a few "likes" or "you knows" into the conversation as I'm thinking of what I want to say next. Not to mention that writing and speaking are inherently different skills.

[Jumbo]

I could not disagree more with this sentiment. These are college educated young men for Christ sake! Everyone should be so well versed and eloquent as the "Duke Myth". It chaps my hide that the vast majority of basketball programs allow their players to use the foul grammer and slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals.

No, Blue Devil fans, do not dumb down your expectations on or off the court. Indeed, other programs should aspire to the level Coach K has acheived.

And having met Jon Sheyer, I think he makes an excellent spokesman for the program - humble, intelligent, genuine - and will make a great future captain.

I'm an educated man. I say "you know" every now and then. I don't think it reflects poorly on me. I also think there's some serious racial bias in some of the comments in this thread (not just this post), when we see comments like "slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals."

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

I also think there's some serious racial bias in some of the comments in this thread (not just this post), when we see comments like "slurred pronunciation usually reserved for pool halls and drug deals."

How's that, Jumbo? I don't see how encouraging and helping student athletes to be well spoken and effective communicators links to "serious racial bias".

Don't people of all races hang out in pool rooms and/or deal in drugs? Where's the bias?

Love, Ima

[Jumbo]

How's that, Jumbo? I don't see how encouraging and helping student athletes to be well spoken and effective communicators links to "serious racial bias".

Don't people of all races hang out in pool rooms and/or deal in drugs? Where's the bias?

Love, Ima

I didn't say working with student-athletes on public speaking is a bad thing, per se. What I did say was referring to someone's speech as reminiscent of drug dealers was racially biased. You are correct in saying that people of all races deal drugs. But which race is most commonly stereotyped in that manner?
I also don't see how all the "y'knows" is evidence of even a small problem.

[ugadevil]

I've had multiple speech classes where the teacher places an emphasis on verbal fillers when giving a presentation. If possible, it's good to avoid verbal fillers (regardless of what phrase you use "uhh", "umm", "ya know") because it reflects uncertainty. I don't know about the whole racial issue and stereotypes, but any good public speaking course will mention the importance of communicating in a decisive manner. It's a good sign that Duke players, when asked a question, can provide thoughtful and insightful answers and they don't stumble their way through it.

[micah75]

You are correct in saying that people of all races deal drugs. But which race is most commonly stereotyped in that manner?


Pool halls were also mentioned. Which race is most commonly stereotyped in that manner? Sure, if one leaves out pool halls, then perhaps you may have a point, but that wasn't the case here.

[wumhenry]

Some fillers are worse than others.
"Um" isn't nearly as annoying and stupid-sounding as "you know." "Um" doesn't pretend to be anything but what it is, a timefiller. "You know" is more distracting because it has semantic content and is more annoying because it affects a spurious solicitude for the listener's comprehension as a half-assed coverup for the speaker's momentary inability to complete his thought.

Of course, the quality of the content between the fillers is the most important thing.

[johnb]

If we're going to go after 20-year-old basketball players for saying a few 'uhms' while they are still huffing from having performed magic on the court for 40 minutes, I'm going to ramp up my DBR post total by attacking every misspelling, grammatical error, run-on sentence, and awkward phrasing that is typed onto the board.

By the way, my spontaneous speech at work meetings is dramatically less 'correct' than my written paragraphs; I'm not sure how I would have sounded on ESPN when I was a teenager. Sure, I'm pleased when our players perform a fluent interview, and I notice players from other teams who use awkward syntax, but I find it more grating to hear professional sportscasters who repeat the boring and inaccurate truisms that have become part of modern sports commentary.

And finally, it is true that some highly-privileged, upper middle class men of European descent engage in drug deals and pool, but it is also true that few people from that demographic are stars on elite college basketball teams. When linking speech patterns, illicit behavior, and college basketball, it's reasonable to imagine that the writer is referring to young Black men. I don't believe that such a comment is tantamount to Klan membership, but it's fair to comment on the comment, especially if we are feeling friskily free to criticize the off-the-cuff remarks made by teenage athletes.

[wisteria]

hmmmmmm......

How did my cheerful thoughts about Jon Scheyer lead to such serious discussions? :confused: Oh well, at least it's probably the first time that I started a thread with more than 5 replies. :D

[KenTankerous]

Sorry Wisteria, I didn't mean to fuel the hijack of your well meaning thread. But it is what it is at this point...

I intended no offense, least of all racial. But posts are like bounce passes, an errant one is almost always the fault of the passer. And if the passee sees offense, especially racially charged, then I am most apologetic.

I meant to be critical of the idea that athletes for major powerhouses are workhorses for the AD budget and not real students. Duke's athletes obviously are real students and it shows in their interviews, their attitudes and their post-basketball lives. If Duke can do it, and still maintain a consistent presence in the top 20 year after year, why can't every program? If that means I am being critical of young black males, then so be it. But tell me this, why are Duke's young black male athletes able to speak in complete sentences and finish a degree in four years better than most other programs? It's because black, brown, white or Canadian, student/athletes at Duke are just that: STUDENTS!

But I will confess, when the "pool hall...drug deal" metaphor came to mind I was thinking of Francisco Garcia who left the University of Louisville for the NBA after his junior year. His English was halting at best. And I'm not saying that makes him less of an American or human being or basketball player. I'm saying he should not be taking up a scholarship at a university. Look, I'm an intelligent, productive, generally damn good human being, but I can't speak French worth a crap so I have no business at Ecole Normale Super just because I am an excellent cook or soccer player.

The fact that Scheyer as a sophomore is more poised and fluent than most seniors on top ten squads should embarrass the other nine programs into coaching their kids a little better and raising their standards a little higher.

[77devil]

Not to mention that writing and speaking are inherently different skills.

I could not disagree more. My experience for several decades with highly educated professionals from some of the most selective graduate schools in the country is that quality of the two are highly co-dependent. It's certainly not a scientific study but the premise has held, in my experience, with few exceptions. And besides, one of my favorite professors at Duke, Harold Parker, would agree.

[Jumbo]

If we're going to go after 20-year-old basketball players for saying a few 'uhms' while they are still huffing from having performed magic on the court for 40 minutes, I'm going to ramp up my DBR post total by attacking every misspelling, grammatical error, run-on sentence, and awkward phrasing that is typed onto the board.

By the way, my spontaneous speech at work meetings is dramatically less 'correct' than my written paragraphs; I'm not sure how I would have sounded on ESPN when I was a teenager. Sure, I'm pleased when our players perform a fluent interview, and I notice players from other teams who use awkward syntax, but I find it more grating to hear professional sportscasters who repeat the boring and inaccurate truisms that have become part of modern sports commentary.

And finally, it is true that some highly-privileged, upper middle class men of European descent engage in drug deals and pool, but it is also true that few people from that demographic are stars on elite college basketball teams. When linking speech patterns, illicit behavior, and college basketball, it's reasonable to imagine that the writer is referring to young Black men. I don't believe that such a comment is tantamount to Klan membership, but it's fair to comment on the comment, especially if we are feeling friskily free to criticize the off-the-cuff remarks made by teenage athletes.

You said it better than I could have -- well done.

[Jumbo]

I could not disagree more. My experience for several decades with highly educated professionals from some of the most selective graduate schools in the country is that quality of the two are highly co-dependent. It's certainly not a scientific study but the premise has held, in my experience, with few exceptions. And besides, one of my favorite professors at Duke, Harold Parker, would agree.

Perhaps professional writing and public speaking are somewhat connected. But I highly doubted. More to the point, do you really have a problem chatting with a friend who says something to the effect of, "I don't know, we could go out for dinner, or, like, go to the movies or something." I mean, that's just casual conversation. It's the same way that "btw" or "LOL" or other shortened forms of language are acceptable on a message board.

I can understand pushing people to speak professionally in a public setting. But I think holding kids up as a paradigm of virtue because of that ability is not only wrong, it's snooty. And you can be darn sure that when these kids are hanging out with one another, they're, like, not worried about colloquial speaking, you know?

[77devil]

Perhaps professional writing and public speaking are somewhat connected. But I highly doubted. More to the point, do you really have a problem chatting with a friend who says something to the effect of, "I don't know, we could go out for dinner, or, like, go to the movies or something." I mean, that's just casual conversation. It's the same way that "btw" or "LOL" or other shortened forms of language are acceptable on a message board.

I can understand pushing people to speak professionally in a public setting. But I think holding kids up as a paradigm of virtue because of that ability is not only wrong, it's snooty. And you can be darn sure that when these kids are hanging out with one another, they're, like, not worried about colloquial speaking, you know?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My original point was simply that bad speech is a bad habit that can be corrected with effort and practice.

As to your question above, my answer is, uh, like, no, but, umm, I notice, and I absolutely believe, you know, that it carries over into other settings.

[wumhenry]

The fact that Scheyer as a sophomore is more poised and fluent than most seniors on top ten squads should embarrass the other nine programs into coaching their kids a little better and raising their standards a little higher.
Let's face it: as long as they can get away with it, many college coaches are going to recruit athletes whose academic aptitude is below their schools' normal admission standard, and no change from that is in sight. You can't make silk purses from sows' ears.

[dukejunkie]

Originally Posted by dukejunkie
Ever since taking one of my most intense, difficult, yet rewarding classes at Duke (I will be impressed with whoever can figure out the class and professor)


My answer deppends on when you attended.

Sorry I couldn't get on the boards until now. I was around for the infamous 94/95 season. Hint #2: professor was very much related to that team.

If you overlooked hint #1 in the title of my previous post, it was: "Hint: T.O.C."

[dukemomLA]

Um, well, you know, and....like...and like whadya talkin' about. They all started with white Valley Girls, so..... where's all this ridiculous racial stuff coming from. Or from where is this racial stuff coming? Got me mystified.

[mehmattski]

On the other hand, and this will be borne out by the data previously presented, there are some writers, particularly in professional settings, who see long, complicated sentences as a proxy for demonstration of writing skill, hereafter referred to as snobification, reflecting such writers' egregious ability to invent terms simply for their own sake, rather than for purposes of adding to the discussion.

(Education level and ability to communicate are not perfectly correlated. R squared is probably around 0.75).

[Memphis Devil]

If we're going to go after 20-year-old basketball players for saying a few 'uhms' while they are still huffing from having performed magic on the court for 40 minutes, I'm going to ramp up my DBR post total by attacking every misspelling, grammatical error, run-on sentence, and awkward phrasing that is typed onto the board.

By the way, my spontaneous speech at work meetings is dramatically less 'correct' than my written paragraphs; I'm not sure how I would have sounded on ESPN when I was a teenager. Sure, I'm pleased when our players perform a fluent interview, and I notice players from other teams who use awkward syntax, but I find it more grating to hear professional sportscasters who repeat the boring and inaccurate truisms that have become part of modern sports commentary.

And finally, it is true that some highly-privileged, upper middle class men of European descent engage in drug deals and pool, but it is also true that few people from that demographic are stars on elite college basketball teams. When linking speech patterns, illicit behavior, and college basketball, it's reasonable to imagine that the writer is referring to young Black men. I don't believe that such a comment is tantamount to Klan membership, but it's fair to comment on the comment, especially if we are feeling friskily free to criticize the off-the-cuff remarks made by teenage athletes.

Anyone who works "tantamount" into a college basketball message board, I am a fan of. JohnB, you are my new posting hero.

The closest that I ever came was during a discussion of Kwame Brown: "...he tantamount to no good NBA player."

[Devils8780]

In part it's media training, but it's definitely the quality of kid that Coach K brings in year in and year out. Another thing to consider is that Duke brings in top recruits each year, kids who have experience speaking with local and national media.

I don't think you can expect the same from every college program. Some kids literally can't speak clearly, yet alone know WHAT to say. Can't put that on a coach.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

"Definitely".;)
Love, Ima

[SilkyJ]

More to the point, do you really have a problem chatting with a friend who says something to the effect of, "I don't know, we could go out for dinner, or, like, go to the movies or something." I mean, that's just casual conversation. It's the same way that "btw" or "LOL" or other shortened forms of language are acceptable on a message board.

"BTW" and "LOL" are abbreviations. They're acronyms really. I don't see any connection with writing an acronym, even if its an "unofficial one" so you don't have to type as much with inserting time fillers such as "like" and "you know"



I can understand pushing people to speak professionally in a public setting. But I think holding kids up as a paradigm of virtue because of that ability is not only wrong, it's snooty. And you can be darn sure that when these kids are hanging out with one another, they're, like, not worried about colloquial speaking, you know?

I agree that they probably speak like that but isn't the below point true? Do you think these kids have a switch they can just flip and all their "likes" go away?



As to your question above, my answer is, uh, like, no, but, umm, I notice, and I absolutely believe, you know, that it carries over into other settings.


Let's face it: as long as they can get away with it, many college coaches are going to recruit athletes whose academic aptitude is below their schools' normal admission standard, and no change from that is in sight. You can't make silk purses from sows' ears.

Well let's not kid ourselves, plenty of our athletes are below the normal academic standard for Duke. PLENTY of them.


On the other hand, and this will be borne out by the data previously presented, there are some writers, particularly in professional settings, who see long, complicated sentences as a proxy for demonstration of writing skill, hereafter referred to as snobification, reflecting such writers' egregious ability to invent terms simply for their own sake, rather than for purposes of adding to the discussion.

(Education level and ability to communicate are not perfectly correlated. R squared is probably around 0.75).

The correlation is still statistically significant, no?

Also, I'm guessing the first paragraph was a joke about long, complicated sentences? But I dont get the part about inventing terms for their own sake. How does that relate to long, complicated sentences? Are you basically saying that a good writer doesn't need to write long and complicated sentences, but instead can express him or herself in fewer words?

[BlueDevilJay]

Im sorry but the best interviews ever given were by Mr Julius Peppers. Now there were some classics. "I play football....." Hated the guy at UNC but love him now as a Panther.

[mehmattski]

The correlation is still statistically significant, no?

Also, I'm guessing the first paragraph was a joke about long, complicated sentences? But I dont get the part about inventing terms for their own sake. How does that relate to long, complicated sentences? Are you basically saying that a good writer doesn't need to write long and complicated sentences, but instead can express him or herself in fewer words?

Precisely.


(See what I did there? :rolleyes: )

I've read and edited my fair share of scientific papers, and among the common themes are: 1) long, complicated sentences, and 2) making up words. To me, the way they're related is that some writers believe having both of these features impresses the reader. In fact, most of the time it does the opposite.

Anyway, to add more to the thread, I'll agree with those who have made a distinction between spoken and written word. Particularly when it comes to unplanned speech, I'm guessing most of us aren't able to immediately answer a question with thoughtful, eloquent prose. There's a lot hidden behind the power of the delete key in the written word.

So here, you've got a bunch of teenagers whose words are going to be scrutinized by national media and message board groupies like us. I would much rather they stammer a bit to collect their thoughts than immediately blurting out the first thing that comes to mind. With the reputation of the basketball program and the University on the line in these interviews, saying the right thing is often more important than saying what's on the mind.

[Acymetric]

Im sorry but the best interviews ever given were by Mr Julius Peppers. Now there were some classics. "I play football....." Hated the guy at UNC but love him now as a Panther.

I loved him until this season...I'll give him one more before I decide they should get rid of him.

[Lavabe]

I loved him until this season...I'll give him one more before I decide they should get rid of him.

Living in Atlanta, I loathed him at TackyBlueU, and I loathe him today.

Cheers,
Lavabe