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View Full Version : The Greg Paulus Experiment - Volunteers Needed



Carlos
01-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Against FSU, Paulus struggled for 36 minutes before coming up with a big three, a couple of layups, and a key steal.

Against Clemson, Paulus struggled for 30 minutes before coming up with some big free throws and a couple of steals.

What we need is for 9 volunteers to play about 30 minutes of pickup ball with Greg before each game.

Lord Ash
01-20-2008, 10:59 AM
Heh.

Even better, just have a volunteer go hit Greg over the head with a baseball bat pre-game. He ALWAYS always always plays better when he has gotten smashed around a little... typical football player! Think MSG and going headfirst into the scorers table, or heck even back to the McD all American game... anyone remember him taking out the cheerleader?

Uncle Drew
01-20-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm confused, why do we need a bunch of Tennessee players to play with Greg before the game, why can't we use players from other schools? :D

CatfiveCane
01-20-2008, 12:30 PM
or better yet, replace Paulus with Nolan Smith as our starting PG.

Sorry, Paulus is a gutsy player who works and plays hard. But he's just not that good. Terrible defensive player when guarding quick guards.

We can all see opponents weak links, yet we get cloudy when we evaluate our own team. Most people who I have talked to point to Paulus as our major weak link.

Indoor66
01-20-2008, 12:38 PM
or better yet, replace Paulus with Nolan Smith as our starting PG.

Sorry, Paulus is a gutsy player who works and plays hard. But he's just not that good. Terrible defensive player when guarding quick guards.

We can all see opponents weak links, yet we get cloudy when we evaluate our own team. Most people who I have talked to point to Paulus as our major weak link.

Do you have any positive thoughts about Duke football or basketball?

samizdat
01-20-2008, 12:46 PM
Sure he does. He thinks Nolan Smith is good and deserves to start over Paulus.

Saratoga2
01-20-2008, 01:00 PM
or better yet, replace Paulus with Nolan Smith as our starting PG.

Sorry, Paulus is a gutsy player who works and plays hard. But he's just not that good. Terrible defensive player when guarding quick guards.

We can all see opponents weak links, yet we get cloudy when we evaluate our own team. Most people who I have talked to point to Paulus as our major weak link.

Yes Paulus left space on the baseline and got beat off the dribble. Yes he tried to throw a no look pass when he didn't need to. Yes Paulus lost the ball inexplicably and it went for over and back. Yes he took shots from outside and missed, which resulted in quick strikes by Clemson. Yes his defense had other lapses.

On the positive side, he did make a smart pass of the inbounds for a quick 2. He did hit key free throws going down the stretch and he hit for 9 points, all in the second half, I believe.

What Greg needs to do is to value the ball more and play with the experience he has. Eliminate the bonehead plays. He has a lot of value to the team. We have need for both Nolan and Greg to keep the them fresh and able to move the ball quickly up court. What a fortuitous situation to have two guys capable of playing point guard with Scheyer there in an emergency.

Karl Beem
01-20-2008, 01:27 PM
...Most people who I have talked to point to Paulus as our major weak link.

I'll bet that's a hot topic at recess.:cool:

Devilsfan
01-20-2008, 01:56 PM
But it baffles me how he can throw those "girly man" passes in the middle of the game. It seems like he has a tendancy to lose focus until it really matters.

micah75
01-20-2008, 02:46 PM
I suspect I'm in the minority here, but personally, I think Greg is not getting a fair shake. IMO, whenever he does something "wrong", it's magnified 20-fold due to his performance from last season. He's not the weakest link, and in fact, I don't consider him a weak link at all. If this team has hopes for going deep into the NCAAs, Paulus will play a key role, one way or another, whether it's a clutch play at the end of a close game, (buzzer beater or whatever), or an overall clutch game-day performance in a crucial game.

Despite 2 "bad" games in a row, his season stats are at the very least solid:

1) 3.5 APG (leads the team) vs 1.75 TOs per game
2) 2:1 Assist/Turnover ratio
3) 9 PPG
4) 1.5 SPG (leads the team)
5) 40% from behind the arc (despite going 1-10 the past 2 games)
6) .867 FTP (26-30)

It seems like other players can have mediocre games and not be called out, due to mitigating factors, such as Markie's 9 rebounds vs Temple despite going 3-12 from the field, and Scheyer's 12 rebounds vs Pitt, despite going 1-10 from the field. We tend to look at their positives when the rest of their game is down, but when it comes to Paulus, his negatives are highlighted and his positives diminished.

I'm tellin ya, it's bad mojo to diss our man Greg in this way. And hey, I'm all for Nolan pushing Greg hard for the starting PG spot and may the better man win. But can we stop the bashing, please? The guy has improved remarkably, and is one of the team leaders. He will have some very strong games during the heart of the ACC schedule. Let's not go overboard on this gamer of a player based on 2 games; games in which he finished strong and helped close out the W's.

Acymetric
01-20-2008, 02:49 PM
I'm confused, why do we need a bunch of Tennessee players to play with Greg before the game, why can't we use players from other schools? :D

Nobody else seemed to notice, but I actually laughed when I read that. Well done!

devildeac
01-20-2008, 03:00 PM
Against FSU, Paulus struggled for 36 minutes before coming up with a big three, a couple of layups, and a key steal.

Against Clemson, Paulus struggled for 30 minutes before coming up with some big free throws and a couple of steals.

What we need is for 9 volunteers to play about 30 minutes of pickup ball with Greg before each game.

ROTFLMAO. I will volunteer but I think I would only be good for 2-3 minutes at my age and level of conditioning. You game, 'los? Think you could give it 2-3 minutes? At this rate, we'd need about 50 volunteers:D

OZZIE4DUKE
01-20-2008, 03:03 PM
ROTFLMAO. I will volunteer but I think I would only be good for 2-3 minutes at my age and level of conditioning. You game, 'los? Think you could give it 2-3 minutes? At this rate, we'd need about 50 volunteers:D

I'll play my "low post" defensive style on him. If I hang my body weight on him for the 30 or 45 seconds I'd last, it will surely tire him out a bit.

devildeac
01-20-2008, 03:13 PM
I'll play my "low post" defensive style on him. If I hang my body weight on him for the 30 or 45 seconds I'd last, it will surely tire him out a bit.

That's a great idea, OZ, but by doing that you'd accumulate fouls even faster than the Shav rate and we'd need more wide-bodies to man the post position.:D

OZZIE4DUKE
01-20-2008, 03:19 PM
That's a great idea, OZ, but by doing that you'd accumulate fouls even faster than the Shav rate and we'd need more wide-bodies to man the post position.:D

There are going to be refs?

They can't call all the fouls, can they? They'll let a couple go, so I feel confident I'd play for at least 35 seconds of clock time before I fouled out.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-20-2008, 03:31 PM
Let me know when you guys have this scheduled and I'll help with the cheering...

devildeac
01-20-2008, 03:55 PM
There are going to be refs?

They can't call all the fouls, can they? They'll let a couple go, so I feel confident I'd play for at least 35 seconds of clock time before I fouled out.

Of course there will be refs. We can't have GP kicking us in self-defense(after we pound him a few times) and expect him to get away with it:D. DitBD has graciously consented to provide us with some cheering, too. This is really looking promising.

DukePA
01-20-2008, 04:02 PM
I'll be the band. I always thought it would be cool play "Devil in the Blue Dress" on the bassoon :cool:

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Of course there will be refs. We can't have GP kicking us in self-defense(after we pound him a few times) and expect him to get away with it:D. DitBD has graciously consented to provide us with some cheering, too. This is really looking promising.

How often will this take place? Will it be before every game?

Since there will be refs creating simulation of game atmosphere, I'll bring my boom box and play one of the Pep Band's CDs.

weezie
01-20-2008, 04:17 PM
I'd volunteer to ride the surfboard but I think Greg is going to be just fine. He's still my guy. If there was ever a player who LOVES Duke, and I mean really loves the school, it's Greg. Plus he's got immense reserves of courage.

SilkyJ
01-20-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm confused, why do we need a bunch of Tennessee players to play with Greg before the game, why can't we use players from other schools? :D

well played.


Terrible defensive player when guarding quick guards.

I dont agree with that anymore. hes much better this year than last year and I think he's OK. He gets a lot of steals too.


Sure he does. He thinks Nolan Smith is good and deserves to start over Paulus.

I'm warming to that camp quickly. not b/c i think greg is playing badly, I just think he's pretty close to maxed out on potential so we know what we get from him night in and night out and nolan is playing basically as well as Greg which isn't hard b/c all you need is steady play offensively and nolan is doing that and showing so much more potential (and his defense is great too). did you guys see that dunk from the ACC??? that shows us what we are missing...

Constantstrain 81
01-20-2008, 04:41 PM
I am a Paulus fan and I also like Nolan Smith.

Greg starting takes a certain pressure off of Nolan that he doesn't need now.

Greg brings tremendous things to us at times. There are just these times, particularly lately, that he makes some incredibly bonehead plays. Lately, they have cost us baskets - not just possessions. In addition, it seems that his 3 point shooting suffers when he starts with the turnovers ("It's all very psychiatric" as Hawkeye Pierce would say).

I don't think I mind aggressive turnovers. Greg, in the last several games, has just had terrible turnovers on routine plays. That, IMHO, is what he needs to stop. It impacts the whole team and it impacts his shooting.

Nolan is playing very well. He doesn't need the added pressure of replacing Greg and all that goes with it. Let Greg take that pressure - he already knows what it is all about.

Wander
01-20-2008, 04:46 PM
I really like our point guard situation right now. We're having excellent success giving lots of minutes to both Greg and Nolan, and I'd like to see it kept that way. I don't see a need to change the way we're handling that position now.

CatfiveCane
01-20-2008, 05:03 PM
Personally, I think Nolan Smith should replace Paulus in the next few weeks. Smith has been brought along slow, but he clearly has the far higher potential.

Sort of reminds me of back in 1998. Wojo vs Avery. Everybody wants to be in Wojo's bandwagon, but I'm convinced if Avery replaces Wojo as the starting PG in Feb of that season... we beat Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament.

hc5duke
01-20-2008, 05:09 PM
Personally, I think Nolan Smith should replace Paulus in the next few weeks. Smith has been brought along slow, but he clearly has the far higher potential.

Sort of reminds me of back in 1998. Wojo vs Avery. Everybody wants to be in Wojo's bandwagon, but I'm convinced if Avery replaces Wojo as the starting PG in Feb of that season... we beat Kentucky in the NCAA Tournament.

Hmm actually reminded me of 2001, where Duhon replaces Nate James... with better results than 1998 :)

CatfiveCane
01-20-2008, 05:13 PM
Hmm actually reminded me of 2001, where Duhon replaces Nate James... with better results than 1998 :)

Kinda. But Nate James, as you know, was not a PG.

pete
01-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Start Nolan! Start Nolan! Start Nolan! Of course he can handle the pressure. He is no doubt ready. There is nothing Greg does that Nolan can't there is a whole lot Nolan does that Greg can't. Greg should not be starting and should instead be coming off the bench. Besides I am tired of watching him walk up the court and then dribble with his back to the defender and have to get bailed out by a screen or someone actually physically taking the ball from him. Did everybody see how much faster we looked yesterday with nolan and his defense is superb. Finally, if Greg and Nolan played one on one to 21 who would win? It would not even be close. I like Greg he is a good hard nosed kid and has contributed solidly to our ballclub but he just ain't nolan smith.

ArkieDukie
01-20-2008, 06:43 PM
I suspect I'm in the minority here, but personally, I think Greg is not getting a fair shake. IMO, whenever he does something "wrong", it's magnified 20-fold due to his performance from last season. He's not the weakest link, and in fact, I don't consider him a weak link at all. If this team has hopes for going deep into the NCAAs, Paulus will play a key role, one way or another, whether it's a clutch play at the end of a close game, (buzzer beater or whatever), or an overall clutch game-day performance in a crucial game.

Despite 2 "bad" games in a row, his season stats are at the very least solid:

1) 3.5 APG (leads the team) vs 1.75 TOs per game
2) 2:1 Assist/Turnover ratio
3) 9 PPG
4) 1.5 SPG (leads the team)
5) 40% from behind the arc (despite going 1-10 the past 2 games)
6) .867 FTP (26-30)

It seems like other players can have mediocre games and not be called out, due to mitigating factors, such as Markie's 9 rebounds vs Temple despite going 3-12 from the field, and Scheyer's 12 rebounds vs Pitt, despite going 1-10 from the field. We tend to look at their positives when the rest of their game is down, but when it comes to Paulus, his negatives are highlighted and his positives diminished.

I'm tellin ya, it's bad mojo to diss our man Greg in this way. And hey, I'm all for Nolan pushing Greg hard for the starting PG spot and may the better man win. But can we stop the bashing, please? The guy has improved remarkably, and is one of the team leaders. He will have some very strong games during the heart of the ACC schedule. Let's not go overboard on this gamer of a player based on 2 games; games in which he finished strong and helped close out the W's.

You said it all. I'm with you.

mcdukefan
01-20-2008, 06:55 PM
. . . Mike Patrick, Greg Paulus was an outstanding high school football quarterback . . . maybe he needs to throw a few bad passes with a football prior to warming up for the basketball bames :)

ugadevil
01-20-2008, 07:00 PM
Finally, if Greg and Nolan played one on one to 21 who would win? It would not even be close

What on earth does this mean? Being a great point guard is about managing the game, running the offense, seeing the floor, and getting your teammates involved.

What if I beat Jon Scheyer in a game of HORSE? Does that mean I should be shooting guard?

CatfiveCane
01-20-2008, 07:07 PM
What if I beat Jon Scheyer in a game of HORSE? Does that mean I should be shooting guard?

But you wouldn't. What's your point?

hc5duke
01-20-2008, 07:10 PM
But you wouldn't. What's your point?
http://www.choibean.com/random/ugadevil.jpg
It's generally not a good idea to bet against Shane Battier...

Fish80
01-20-2008, 07:12 PM
I suspect I'm in the minority here, but personally, I think Greg is not getting a fair shake. IMO, whenever he does something "wrong", it's magnified 20-fold due to his performance from last season. He's not the weakest link, and in fact, I don't consider him a weak link at all. If this team has hopes for going deep into the NCAAs, Paulus will play a key role, one way or another, whether it's a clutch play at the end of a close game, (buzzer beater or whatever), or an overall clutch game-day performance in a crucial game.

Despite 2 "bad" games in a row, his season stats are at the very least solid:

1) 3.5 APG (leads the team) vs 1.75 TOs per game
2) 2:1 Assist/Turnover ratio
3) 9 PPG
4) 1.5 SPG (leads the team)
5) 40% from behind the arc (despite going 1-10 the past 2 games)
6) .867 FTP (26-30)

It seems like other players can have mediocre games and not be called out, due to mitigating factors, such as Markie's 9 rebounds vs Temple despite going 3-12 from the field, and Scheyer's 12 rebounds vs Pitt, despite going 1-10 from the field. We tend to look at their positives when the rest of their game is down, but when it comes to Paulus, his negatives are highlighted and his positives diminished.

I'm tellin ya, it's bad mojo to diss our man Greg in this way. And hey, I'm all for Nolan pushing Greg hard for the starting PG spot and may the better man win. But can we stop the bashing, please? The guy has improved remarkably, and is one of the team leaders. He will have some very strong games during the heart of the ACC schedule. Let's not go overboard on this gamer of a player based on 2 games; games in which he finished strong and helped close out the W's.

Great post eastwind. The point guard rotation is working. Paulus brings a lot to this team, and toughness is one of those things. And don't under estimate the pressure relief for Nolan. He's able to play pressure free, and that's a great situation for a freshman.

ugadevil
01-20-2008, 07:12 PM
But you wouldn't. What's your point?


My point is that you can't take irrelevant things like who would win in a game of 21 to determine who should be the point guard of the team. And to use that as any sort of measurement of their ability leaves out so many other factors that you need in a point guard.

Edit: I've lost my credibility since I'm no longer Shane Battier:)

pete
01-20-2008, 11:07 PM
The 21 thing was tounge in cheek just for giggles. The question is who is the better floor general and who do you want running the team in crunch time with the most composure. My money is on Nolan Smith.

wumhenry
01-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Paulus +204
Smith +140

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4862

You can argue that the cumulative numbers aren't an accurate gauge of the current efficiency of these two relative to each other, but that's a pretty big difference.

MChambers
01-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Paulus +204
Smith +140

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4862

You can argue that the cumulative numbers aren't an accurate gauge of the current efficiency of these two relative to each other, but that's a pretty big difference.

On a per minute basis, Smith is actually doing better than policy. But I trust Coach K to figure out how to play his players, including his point guards. He is, after all, one of the all time greats.

CDu
01-22-2008, 12:32 PM
Paulus +204
Smith +140

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4862

You can argue that the cumulative numbers aren't an accurate gauge of the current efficiency of these two relative to each other, but that's a pretty big difference.

That's not a fair comparison. Look at the minutes played:

Paulus: 418
Smith: 264

You should probably take that into account when discussing plus/minus. Otherwise, you're giving a benefit to the guy who's played more minutes.

Their plus/minus per 40 minutes give Smith a slight edge: 21.2 for Smith, 19.5 for Paulus. Of course, that doesn't consider the fact that Paulus has generally played at the start of each half and at the end of games, meaning his minutes have probably come against tougher competition.

gw67
01-22-2008, 01:08 PM
I don't know if one of our mods tended to make this another bash Paulus thread but count me as one of those who is happy with a 15-1 team that is leading the ACC. I consider our bench to be one of the real strengths of the team and I would be loathe to make a major change at this time. IMO, Paulus is a better passer/ballhandler and long range shooter and Smith is terrific at finishing on the break and he brings lots of energy off the bench for both defense and offense. Much of the same rationale for replacing Paulus with Smith could be used to replace Henderson with Scheyer in the starting lineup. Coach K could surprise us and make both changes but I don't see a need for any change based on the results so far.

gw67

CDu
01-22-2008, 01:27 PM
I don't know if one of our mods tended to make this another bash Paulus thread but count me as one of those who is happy with a 15-1 team that is leading the ACC. I consider our bench to be one of the real strengths of the team and I would be loathe to make a major change at this time. IMO, Paulus is a better passer/ballhandler and long range shooter and Smith is terrific at finishing on the break and he brings lots of energy off the bench for both defense and offense. Much of the same rationale for replacing Paulus with Smith could be used to replace Henderson with Scheyer in the starting lineup. Coach K could surprise us and make both changes but I don't see a need for any change based on the results so far.

gw67

How has this become a "bash Paulus" thread? As far as I can tell, it's become a thread praising Smith. That's an important distinction here. There may be a comment or two that aren't positive toward Paulus, but that's far from a "bash Paulus" thread in my mind.

Classof06
01-22-2008, 02:19 PM
I think as we get more games under our belt as a team, people are beginning to see what Nolan Smith can do. It's hard not to notice how well our team runs when Nolan is out there and you guys have known how I've felt about Nolan since we signed him. He is on track for a phenomenal career at Duke.

That being said, I like the combination of both Paulus and Smith. I think Paulus is definitely more comfortable out there in tight situations because he's been there so many times before. But Nolan is becoming increasingly comfortable with each passing game. Paulus is still having rough games but you can't underestimate his importance to this team. I think everyone on these boards knows who I would start, but the bottom line is that we're 15-1, 3-0 in the ACC and #3 in the country. There's not much we need to tinker with.

What I'm curious to see is who starts against Carolina. I think it's fairly obvious Paulus would have trouble guarding any one of Carolina's perimeter players whereas Nolan Smith practiced against Lawson everyday in high school. And with our disadvantage down low, we simply can't afford to give Carolina any matchup advantages on the perimeter. Time will tell.

Clipsfan
01-22-2008, 02:33 PM
How has this become a "bash Paulus" thread? As far as I can tell, it's become a thread praising Smith. That's an important distinction here. There may be a comment or two that aren't positive toward Paulus, but that's far from a "bash Paulus" thread in my mind.

Considering that most of the posts are about what Paulus does "wrong", I can see how people would think that this is a bash Paulus thread. As everyone knows, I'm in the camp that thinks Paulus does what is needed and brings a real competitive fire to the team. I've said many times that he should be in there at the end of games, and I was delighted that he lived up to my expectations at the end of the game the other day. However, the most important thing is that our PGs are playing well as a unit (their combined minutes are generally close to 40/game and their combined stats are often very solid) and that they're helping this team win. Did anyone notice that this team which some on this board have maligned so often is 15-1, leading the ACC and ranked in the top 3 in the country? Not only that, but they've looked good doing this, and are all great kids?

ojaidave
01-22-2008, 05:04 PM
How has this become a "bash Paulus" thread? As far as I can tell, it's become a thread praising Smith. That's an important distinction here. There may be a comment or two that aren't positive toward Paulus, but that's far from a "bash Paulus" thread in my mind.

Well, there's the whole thread premise:


Against FSU, Paulus struggled for 36 minutes before coming up with a big three, a couple of layups, and a key steal.

Against Clemson, Paulus struggled for 30 minutes before coming up with some big free throws and a couple of steals.

What we need is for 9 volunteers to play about 30 minutes of pickup ball with Greg before each game.
Emphasis added

Now while I suppose the intent of this post was to be humorous - with the beating Paulus has taken on this board the last year and a half, it isn't tough to figure the direction the thread would take.

I think the Wojo / Avery comparison is apt, though I'd say Smith doesn't turn the ball over as readily as Avery during his freshman year. It has been made very clear to me the last few seasons that basketball is like art in that we are looking at the same thing but are all seeing it differently. As a fan, I'm really pleased with where this team is at right now, and I think Paulus is not an insignificant ingredient of this success.

Disclaimer: Winning a National Championship is near the bottom of my list of things that make for a successful and enjoyable season, so I view the team through a different lens than some.

Dave

micah75
01-22-2008, 05:42 PM
Well, there's the whole thread premise:

Now while I suppose the intent of this post was to be humorous - with the beating Paulus has taken on this board the last year and a half, it isn't tough to figure the direction the thread would take.

I As a fan, I'm really pleased with where this team is at right now, and I think Paulus is not an insignificant ingredient of this success.

Same here. I am most pleasantly surprised as well as delighted with the performance and progress of ALL the players. Perhaps I should have expressed this in the "Fun" thread. And as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Greg is, IMHO, not a liability, but an asset. A STRONG asset. We're not going to win the ACC w/o him, nor the NC. If Nolan is better, or becomes better, that doesn't mean Paulus has become a "weak link." It's not mutually exclusive. Both players can improve (and let's say Nolan improves faster than Greg), without either becoming a liability. They will both be assets, even if one surpasses the other.


Disclaimer: Winning a National Championship is near the bottom of my list of things that make for a successful and enjoyable season, so I view the team through a different lens than some. Dave

I'm with you on that. A NC is icing. But if we don't get there, it will have been one heck of a fun ride!

pete
01-22-2008, 07:49 PM
Greg is not a weak link but he is an average ACC PG and I think it's fair to say that Nolan is everything Greg is plus he is athletic and can play defense. If you give Nolan the same minutes you give Greg than I believed Nolan would do a noticeably better job. Greg has reached his peak of performance Nolan just needs oppurtunity. Greg can easily sub of the bench and play 15 -20 minutes and give Nolan a breather. In my opinion you cannot compare the Gerald vs. Jon situation who I both believe are at this point potential second team all-acc candidates with Greg vs. Nolan. I just don't see Greg every being all-acc and with Nolan sky is the limit. Besides what mistakes has Nolan made that Greg hasn't? Nolan's shooting percentage will go up if he is given the starting nod and 25-30 min pg.

shadowfax336
01-22-2008, 08:56 PM
Greg is not a weak link but he is an average ACC PG and I think it's fair to say that Nolan is everything Greg is plus he is athletic and can play defense.

Thats just not true. Nolan is nowhere near the shooter Greg is, and he doesn't have the experience that Greg has thats vital for a PG as he runs the team in pressure situations. There's a reason Greg gets subbed in at the end of games and it isn't because Nolan is bad. Its because Nolan is a freshman PG, a breed that (with rare exceptions, Duhon/Conley come to mind) tend to be prone to mistakes when put under pressure. I love Nolan and think he's going to be a great player, but I also appreciate the way Paulus is running this team right now, and the extra dimensions he adds with his shooting stroke and big game experience.

pete
01-22-2008, 09:55 PM
If given the chance Nolan will perform at a higher level than Greg and his shooting will follow suit when given the starting position. Our success as a team is not solely due to Greg. Nolan is quicker than Greg and as you saw in the last game we exploded with him out there. Nolan is not your average freshman. As of now Greg does shoot better from 3pt range and the free throw line and we are 15 and 1. I just feel that it's not good enough to say well we're winning so let's just leave everything the way it is. I feel we can be even better with Nolan not just starting but playing 25 - 30 minutes pg and we can run more.

CDu
01-23-2008, 02:33 PM
If given the chance Nolan will perform at a higher level than Greg and his shooting will follow suit when given the starting position. Our success as a team is not solely due to Greg. Nolan is quicker than Greg and as you saw in the last game we exploded with him out there. Nolan is not your average freshman. As of now Greg does shoot better from 3pt range and the free throw line and we are 15 and 1. I just feel that it's not good enough to say well we're winning so let's just leave everything the way it is. I feel we can be even better with Nolan not just starting but playing 25 - 30 minutes pg and we can run more.

I don't know whether or not going with Smith for a greater percentage of the game would make us better or not. But I agree that it's silly to say "things are working fine, so why make changes?" If (and that's a definite "if") playing Smith more makes us better, I'd be all for making that change.

CameronCrazie
01-23-2008, 11:10 PM
ASK ANY PLAYER ON THE TEAM INCLUDING NOLAN WHO SHOULD BE OUR #1 POINT GUARD AND THEY WILL ALL SAY GREG WITHOUT HESITATION!!! Stop second guessing Coach K on this one... It is an absolutely stupid argument and you will always lose. Ask yourself who led our team in scoring against ACC teams last year. Hint- it wasn't Duke leading scorer on the season who is now in the NBDL (barely). Who was the ACC leader in assists freshman year? Who pretty much won us the games against Davidson and Florida St. this year? Who is the person Gerald, Kyle, and Jon all said they would want with the ball in their hands with the game on the line? You all are idiots. Paulus has flaws like every other player on the team, but he is a damn good point guard. Stop reading ESPN articles and pretending you know what you are talking about. Trust the man with three national championships and has never had a point guard problem in his entire career at Duke.

CameronCrazie
01-23-2008, 11:14 PM
What I'm curious to see is who starts against Carolina. I think it's fairly obvious Paulus would have trouble guarding any one of Carolina's perimeter players whereas Nolan Smith practiced against Lawson everyday in high school. And with our disadvantage down low, we simply can't afford to give Carolina any matchup advantages on the perimeter. Time will tell.

Name one player besides Lawson who will break us down on the dribble. ONE PLAYER. You can't be thinking of Ellington who has driven to the hoop maybe 5 times all season! ???

feldspar
01-23-2008, 11:14 PM
You all are idiots.

Well, that certainly convinced me. By golly, you're right.*






*Now that was sarcasm.

CameronCrazie
01-23-2008, 11:33 PM
Thanks, I thought it might. What I meant to say is that you are all well intentioned idiots when talking about the leader of our team. This is, of course, much better than being idiots who support that other team down the road ...so, it's really not all that bad haha.

FreezingDevil
01-24-2008, 12:21 AM
Well, that certainly convinced me. By golly, you're right.*






*Now that was sarcasm.

I discovered long ago that sarcasm is a most effective tool to disarm and befuddle the real blundering idiots out there. Thats my plan of defense should I ever find myself in a room alone with Psycho T.

cheers

BDP
01-24-2008, 01:08 AM
Thanks, I thought it might. What I meant to say is that you are all well intentioned idiots when talking about the leader of our team. This is, of course, much better than being idiots who support that other team down the road ...so, it's really not all that bad haha.

I dont agree. I would say Markie is the leader of our team (never thought I would say that!!)

CDu
01-24-2008, 09:03 AM
ASK ANY PLAYER ON THE TEAM INCLUDING NOLAN WHO SHOULD BE OUR #1 POINT GUARD AND THEY WILL ALL SAY GREG WITHOUT HESITATION!!! Stop second guessing Coach K on this one... It is an absolutely stupid argument and you will always lose. Ask yourself who led our team in scoring against ACC teams last year. Hint- it wasn't Duke leading scorer on the season who is now in the NBDL (barely). Who was the ACC leader in assists freshman year? Who pretty much won us the games against Davidson and Florida St. this year? Who is the person Gerald, Kyle, and Jon all said they would want with the ball in their hands with the game on the line? You all are idiots. Paulus has flaws like every other player on the team, but he is a damn good point guard. Stop reading ESPN articles and pretending you know what you are talking about. Trust the man with three national championships and has never had a point guard problem in his entire career at Duke.

1. Calling people idiots and saying their argument is stupid is not a good way to prove yourself right. I happen to disagree with you on some points, and I'm most certainly not an idiot.
2. It appears that Coach K is expanding Smith's role game-by-game. Therefore, one might surmise that he sees that Smith is pretty darn good and is easing him into a transition. That was the point of this whole thread.
3. I'm not sure I've seen any such quote by all of those players saying they want the ball in Paulus' hands. Even if they did, that sounds more like the company line supporting your teammate than anything else.
4. If you're going to say a player is "damn good point guard," you should probably provide more support than just "trust in Coach K." It makes you sound like a sheep blindly following the herd.
5. Paulus didn't win us the Davidson and FSU games. I'd argue that his poor play for the first 35 minutes of those games was one of the main reasons why we were still in a dogfight in the end. To give Paulus credit for those wins is to greatly insult the efforts of the rest of the team, who carried us to the lead at the point in which Paulus finally made a couple of plays.

gw67
01-24-2008, 09:46 AM
CDu - I agree with your point #1. There is no need to get personnel. I disagree with you on the Paulus/Smith issue but I like both youngsters and think that each brings something different to the table and I understand your point of view. I don't believe that your point#2 is correct. Since early December, Smith has been getting 18-20 minutes a game and I don't see a marked change in his role.

I am testing my memory on this one but didn't you make the point a couple of times this past summer that Paulus' a/to last year (1.3) was not acceptable for an ACC point guard. On this issue, I am fairly sure that we agreed and I recall noting that Paulus, and the team, needed to improve ballhandling. Paulus has improved his ballhandling and his current a/to is about 2.0 which puts him in the top five of the ACC point guards. Smith is a young player who is learning the point guard position and he has an a/to of 1.3. I think that he will improve but both of us agreed a few months ago that an a/to of 1.3 is not acceptable for a full time ACC point guard. As I previously stated, Smith is a terrific open court player and brings energy off the bench. I like a bench of Scheyer, Smith, King and Thomas and believe that it is one of the strengths of this team. They are young and each brings energy and a different skill set into the game. IMO, starting Smith and bringing Paulus off the bench would not improve the team but I've been wrong as a fan on scores of issues.

gw67

heavy g
01-24-2008, 11:01 AM
I think Paulus is a gutty, hardworking, spirited, tough player. He can shoot very well and has the ability to make some big plays under pressure.

However, I have been saying from day one that he is simply too slow to play good defense. I don't give a crap what his stats are. Putting pressure on the point is critical to the success of good man-to-man defense. Most opposing point guards can (and do) blow by Paulus on the dribble whenever they want to. We do a great job of helping and sometimes even creating a steal, but we're constantly battling within the second layer of our help defense. That's probably the main reason we're seeing more zone this year.

If you can't see that he is slow, you're not watching it with an objective eye. You can get around being a little slow if you're a big man, but not when you're guarding the point. If you can't see it on D, at least take note of how many times he backs up to his man at the top of the key to protect the ball. It's because the defender isn't scared of the dribble drive. Looking over your shoulder is not a good way to start a half court offense, and it leads to some of those ill-advised passes.

Pressure at the top was the cornerstone of the sick defense we played in the Hurley years. Read some old interviews with K and you'll find he used to go on and on about how important that was to our overall team D.

I still think Paulus is a very valuable player for us, but his obvious limitations are what they are.

DangerDevil
01-24-2008, 11:13 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/grant_wahl/01/23/the.bag/2.html

wumhenry
01-24-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't give a crap what his stats are.
I may not be the best judge, but seems to me the difference between 2.0 and 1.3 A:T/O is worth more than a crap. Maybe Paulus's ratio would be even better if he didn't have to look over his shoulder at the top of the key, but his ratio is way ahead of Smith's as it is now, so so what?

Troublemaker
01-24-2008, 01:03 PM
Smith hasn't so obviously surpassed Paulus yet that a change in roles should be made. I love the little bursts of awesomeness that Smith occasionally provides with his superior athleticism/defense, midrange shot, and finishing ability, but he's still developing consistency and Paulus still provides his own strengths in long-range shooting, a/to ratio, and timely points. They're about even, imo, and their minutes are appropriate.

Will Smith surpass Paulus one day? Absolutely. He's the far better talent that will continue to develop but will probably need an offseason of long-range shooting practice and more games under his belt to learn PG play before he becomes obviously better. For now, let the frosh be a frosh and come off the bench and play slightly fewer minutes than the junior.

CDu
01-24-2008, 01:27 PM
CDu - I agree with your point #1. There is no need to get personnel. I disagree with you on the Paulus/Smith issue but I like both youngsters and think that each brings something different to the table and I understand your point of view. I don't believe that your point#2 is correct. Since early December, Smith has been getting 18-20 minutes a game and I don't see a marked change in his role.

I am testing my memory on this one but didn't you make the point a couple of times this past summer that Paulus' a/to last year (1.3) was not acceptable for an ACC point guard. On this issue, I am fairly sure that we agreed and I recall noting that Paulus, and the team, needed to improve ballhandling. Paulus has improved his ballhandling and his current a/to is about 2.0 which puts him in the top five of the ACC point guards. Smith is a young player who is learning the point guard position and he has an a/to of 1.3. I think that he will improve but both of us agreed a few months ago that an a/to of 1.3 is not acceptable for a full time ACC point guard. As I previously stated, Smith is a terrific open court player and brings energy off the bench. I like a bench of Scheyer, Smith, King and Thomas and believe that it is one of the strengths of this team. They are young and each brings energy and a different skill set into the game. IMO, starting Smith and bringing Paulus off the bench would not improve the team but I've been wrong as a fan on scores of issues.

gw67

In his first 8 games, Smith averaged 14.5 minutes per game. In his last 8 games, Smith has averaged 18.5 minutes per game. I'd call that slowly increasing Smith's minutes.

With regard to Paulus A/TO ratio discussion this summer, I was definitely among those who said it was unacceptable last year. It is much better this year. However, I think that is a function of two things: (1) Paulus avoiding the really stupid mistakes, and (2) the change in offensive style this year. We no longer emphasize the role of point guard. Instead, the ball is shared much more fluidly. So, there's much less pressure on Paulus to create offense (hence his A/TO is better than guys like Vazquez and Rice, who are asked to do much more). In fact, I'd argue that aside from bringing the ball up, Paulus largely doesn't play the typical role of point guard this year. Instead, we have a bunch of wing players who are all utilized to attack and the defense and shoot or kick out, or swing the ball around the perimeter.

As for Paulus vs Smith as a starter - I'm on the fence. For the reasons I just described, I'm not sure the A/TO ratio is as crucial this year. I think there are things Smith does better (defend, attack the rim), and things that Paulus does better (pass, shoot). Since we don't emphasize the point guard as much this year, that's why I'm on the fence. I suspect Paulus is still the better option as starter/finisher, but I'm not 100% sold. And as Smith improves, I'm not 100% sold that my opinion won't start to lean toward Smith further.

gw67
01-24-2008, 02:09 PM
CDu - You point about the change in offensive style is on the mark as is your comment about the deemphasis of the role of the point guard this year. We have a number of players who can handle and pass the ball. I think that there is still a need for a player to lead the break and to get the team into its' offense. IMO, teaming Paulus with Nelson and Henderson, and Smith with Scheyer and King spreads out the outside shooting and passers although I recognize that they don't play like a hockey line.

gw67

CDu
01-24-2008, 02:31 PM
CDu - You point about the change in offensive style is on the mark as is your comment about the deemphasis of the role of the point guard this year. We have a number of players who can handle and pass the ball. I think that there is still a need for a player to lead the break and to get the team into its' offense. IMO, teaming Paulus with Nelson and Henderson, and Smith with Scheyer and King spreads out the outside shooting and passers although I recognize that they don't play like a hockey line.

gw67

I tend to agree, although I think Smith is pretty adept at leading the break. Balancing the shooters does have its merits, although I don't think we're ever in a situation with where we lack for good shooters on the floor.

I think the thing that Paulus adds most over Smith at this point (aside from being a superior outside shooter and more of a point guard) is his experience. That's especially relevant in ACC play. That said, there are also times when talent trumps experience.

CameronCrazie
01-24-2008, 02:34 PM
As a lifetime Duke basketball fan and current cameron crazie, I am incredibly discouraged by this thread. I love Dukebasketballreport.com, but after recently joining this discussion board I have come to the conclusion that many of the posters here are not true Duke basketball fans. Some of you have great knowledge of the game and know what it means to be a fan. Others take far too much pleasure in their own criticisms. That this thread can occur on a "Duke fan site" is ridiculous. I am done with this discussion board and hope that you fans out there are not too negatively affected by the comments of those who consistently criticize our team.

heavy g
01-24-2008, 02:39 PM
This season's stats don't mean much as a benchmark against season-long performance. We're just getting into the tough part of our schedule. Let's see what Paulus' "dramatically improved" numbers look like after the ACC is over.

Further, I'd argue the early season is less an indicator than ever before, what with lots of freshman starters/ lack of upperclassmen, etc.

shadowfax336
01-24-2008, 02:48 PM
As a lifetime Duke basketball fan and current cameron crazie, I am incredibly discouraged by this thread. I love Dukebasketballreport.com, but after recently joining this discussion board I have come to the conclusion that many of the posters here are not true Duke basketball fans. Some of you have great knowledge of the game and know what it means to be a fan. Others take far too much pleasure in their own criticisms. That this thread can occur on a "Duke fan site" is ridiculous. I am done with this discussion board and hope that you fans out there are not too negatively affected by the comments of those who consistently criticize our team.

Haha be glad you weren't around last spring... Seriously though, for the most part this thread is less a critique of Paulus than an endorsement of Nolan (I did say for the most part). Its a good thing to have 2 very good point guards and its a totally viable opinion to think that one of them should be starting over the other. Its not idiocy or disloyalty. I happen to think Paulus should be starting for the various reasons mentioned by others throughout this thread as well as for the fact that I think people may be suffering "backup QB" syndrome with Nolan (or is it called Marty syndrome on this board?), and seeing all the good things he's done without any of the bad things simply because he's not the starter and therefore has lower expectations/ gets pulled quickly and does less damage when he's not on his A-game. For instance Greg got a lot of heat for his performance in the Pitt game especially, but if you look at Nolan's stats they were equally unexceptional. He's had several other games where he's had very minimum impact, but it hasn't mattered because he's simply played less minutes in those games. I like Nolan a lot, but its not like he's incredibly more consistently good than Greg so I think some people may need to slow down here

CDu
01-24-2008, 02:52 PM
As a lifetime Duke basketball fan and current cameron crazie, I am incredibly discouraged by this thread. I love Dukebasketballreport.com, but after recently joining this discussion board I have come to the conclusion that many of the posters here are not true Duke basketball fans. Some of you have great knowledge of the game and know what it means to be a fan. Others take far too much pleasure in their own criticisms. That this thread can occur on a "Duke fan site" is ridiculous. I am done with this discussion board and hope that you fans out there are not too negatively affected by the comments of those who consistently criticize our team.

One can be a huge Duke basketball fan, be very knowledgeable about basketball, know what it means to be a fan, AND provide criticism simultaneously. These are not mutually exclusive traits. Fans come in all varieties. The key isn't whether or not you like to analyze strengths and weaknesses. Instead, the key is whether or not you cheer wholeheartedly come game time, and whether or not the losses hurt and the wins feel good. I'm sorry that you don't seem to grasp that.

Troublemaker
01-24-2008, 03:50 PM
As a lifetime Duke basketball fan and current cameron crazie, I am incredibly discouraged by this thread. I love Dukebasketballreport.com, but after recently joining this discussion board I have come to the conclusion that many of the posters here are not true Duke basketball fans. Some of you have great knowledge of the game and know what it means to be a fan. Others take far too much pleasure in their own criticisms. That this thread can occur on a "Duke fan site" is ridiculous. I am done with this discussion board and hope that you fans out there are not too negatively affected by the comments of those who consistently criticize our team.

I just wanted you to know that the feeling isn't mutual, at least not on my part. You've actually entertained me today with your posts and it's not often I can say that. Do stay.

Surfsideron
01-25-2008, 11:09 PM
Amen. The kid does make mistakes but I don't think Duke would be anywhere near the team they are without him.

Nelson may be the captain but Paulus is the leader and the other players know it. He has got guts and more often than not plays above his potential.

I love the kid......even when he screws up. But, I think Smith should be playing the point and Paulus the SG. We would still have his leadership on the floor and he'd have more opportunities to shoot the 3-pointer which he is very adept. It would also take him off the other team's point guard on defense. I don't envy him having to play Lawson!

devildeac
01-26-2008, 02:03 PM
I am glad that Carlos started this thread and organized the effort to get GP 'warmed' up before the 1st half vs the hokies:D . I just reviewed the 1st half stats and Greg had a REALLY good stat line and allowed Kyle to 'rest' so he could have such an outstanding 2nd half.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-26-2008, 02:07 PM
I am glad that Carlos started this thread and organized the effort to get GP 'warmed' up before the 1st half vs the hokies:D . I just reviewed the 1st half stats and Greg had a REALLY good stat line and allowed Kyle to 'rest' so he could have such an outstanding 2nd half.
When is the warm up for Maryland? Could be a tough game, so when do we start? We may need to simulate debris thrown from the stands. Who's going to prepare the Photoshop posters to help John get warmed up?