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JBDuke
01-16-2008, 08:42 PM
Make your pick for Man of the Match for Duke's big road win at Florida State.

Saratoga2
01-16-2008, 08:45 PM
He had a great game in all facets. Run the ball through him every time down.

Duvall
01-16-2008, 08:47 PM
Many of you will be tempted to let Paulus' clutch performance in the last three minutes overshadow his terrible performance in the first 37. And it should. But it should not count for more than Jon Scheyer's spectacular play in the first half and early second. Without Jon, Duke doesn't just lose tonight, they lose BADLY.

Vote Scheyer.

DangerDevil
01-16-2008, 08:48 PM
He's my favorite player by far so I am a little biased. But his toughness in the clutch was key and anyone who gets sucker punched in the face has my vote.

Ben63
01-16-2008, 08:49 PM
Many of you will be tempted to let Paulus' clutch performance in the last three minutes overshadow his terrible performance in the first 37. And it should. But it should not count for more than Jon Scheyer's spectacular play in the first half and early second. Without Jon, Duke doesn't just lose tonight, they lose BADLY.

Vote Scheyer.

Beat me to it. Agree completly. And w/o Scheyer, Paulus cant make plays in a close game b/c it wouldnt have been a close game.

mapei
01-16-2008, 08:51 PM
Best game I've seen from Scheyer ever. Greg was awesome in the last 2-3minutes, but multiple airballs and turnovers before that almost cost us the game.

Devilsfan
01-16-2008, 08:52 PM
It's great to see the toughness of Paulus and Singler at crunch time.

Jumbo
01-16-2008, 08:59 PM
It's Scheyer, and it's not even close. Sure, Paulus made several huge plays in the last two minutes, but he was, well, not very good up to that point. Scheyer got us there, with some help from Singler.

I'm thinking back to all the arguments this summer when people tried to say Scheyer a) wasn't a good perimeter defender and b) was a spot-up shooter who couldn't create. Is anyone still saying that now?

I loved the move K made to put the ball in Jon's hands late, move Paulus over to the wing, and let Scheyer and Singler run the high pick-and-roll. That led to Singler's three off the kickout from Scheyer when we were down one, and we never looked back from there.

tbyers11
01-16-2008, 08:59 PM
I'll chime in with the consensus b/c it is so rare on the board to have anything close to one. Great big-time plays by Kyle and Greg late but the man of the match was definitely Jon.

wisteria
01-16-2008, 09:01 PM
Scheyer has my vote.

I wonder what has made him so confident and aggressive today. What a great scorer! I was starting to think that he was buying too much into the 6th man's supporting role and being too reluctant to score. And then, bang! A beautiful Scheyer Show!

III
01-16-2008, 09:03 PM
Agreed that Scheyer was the key tonight. There was a period in the first half where he was not only draining shots, but grabbing boards, and sticking on defense that really allowed us to pull away for a while. Without that, we would have been in trouble later on. Greg deserves credit as well, not necessarily for the clutch plays in the last few minutes, but for the maturity to not let a bad game get to him and keep him out of things. It's something that's happened to some of our players (even some of our best) in recent years. That said, Scheyer was a stud tonight. The 6th (and 7th) man will be such a factor down the stretch for us.

wisteria
01-16-2008, 09:07 PM
Does anyone remember the one play where everyone was chasing a loose ball and Scheyer just dived onto floor to push it toward Singler(?) ? To me, that was a smart and beautiful play. He knew he couldn't reach the ball in time. And everything was happening so fast! What a great instinct to react like that!

(Talk about diving onto floor, Singler is a warrior! )

billybreen
01-16-2008, 09:14 PM
You can make a great case for Jon or Greg, but my money is on Jon. I don't think we win the game without his production, though Greg made a number of key plays down the stretch.

SMO
01-16-2008, 09:16 PM
It's Scheyer, and it's not even close. Sure, Paulus made several huge plays in the last two minutes, but he was, well, not very good up to that point. Scheyer got us there, with some help from Singler.

I'm thinking back to all the arguments this summer when people tried to say Scheyer a) wasn't a good perimeter defender and b) was a spot-up shooter who couldn't create. Is anyone still saying that now?

I loved the move K made to put the ball in Jon's hands late, move Paulus over to the wing, and let Scheyer and Singler run the high pick-and-roll. That led to Singler's three off the kickout from Scheyer when we were down one, and we never looked back from there.

Very insightful...I noticed the same thing. It worked out great and I wonder if we'll see more of Scheyer handling the ball.

weezie
01-16-2008, 09:20 PM
I voted the obvious Scheyer but it's plain to see, we need Greg in there when the game is tight. He's developed into a pretty good floor general and he keeps the rest of the team calm. jmoo

JBDuke
01-16-2008, 09:20 PM
Very insightful...I noticed the same thing. It worked out great and I wonder if we'll see more of Scheyer handling the ball.

I don't know about that. I like Jon when he's executing a play - he's very trustworthy with the ball, and he makes good passes.

But I don't think Jon does a good job of seeing the floor like a good PG needs to. Witness the end of the Pitt game, when he took the ill-advised 3 pointer, but he had two open teammates on the other side of the lane. Forced to extemporize, I think Jon shows his limitations.

weezie
01-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Does anyone remember the one play where everyone was chasing a loose ball and Scheyer just dived onto floor to push it toward Singler(?) ? To me, that was a smart and beautiful play.


Geez, it was poetry in motion!

JBDuke
01-16-2008, 09:23 PM
Geez, it was poetry in motion!

She blinded me - with science! :D

ehdg
01-16-2008, 09:26 PM
I agree it was Scheyer specially with his first half. Also King helped out off the bench in the first half as well with some ridiculous trey's. Though he was missing in the second half for some reason.

TNTDevil
01-16-2008, 09:27 PM
Many of you will be tempted to let Paulus' clutch performance in the last three minutes overshadow his terrible performance in the first 37. And it should. But it should not count for more than Jon Scheyer's spectacular play in the first half and early second. Without Jon, Duke doesn't just lose tonight, they lose BADLY.

Vote Scheyer.Word.

Jumbo
01-16-2008, 09:30 PM
I don't know about that. I like Jon when he's executing a play - he's very trustworthy with the ball, and he makes good passes.

But I don't think Jon does a good job of seeing the floor like a good PG needs to. Witness the end of the Pitt game, when he took the ill-advised 3 pointer, but he had two open teammates on the other side of the lane. Forced to extemporize, I think Jon shows his limitations.

That's one play, in one game, in a panic situation. He shot a bit quickly. Last year, in the same situation, he hit McClure for the game-winning layup with a lenght-of-the-floor pass. Watch him game, in, game out -- he's very aware of where his teammates are at all times. In fact, I'd say he and Singler see the floor better than anyone on the team. Now, he doesn't have to play "PG" per se, because Nolan or Greg will be on the floor with him. But he needs the ball in his hands more, because he is much more effective that way, making plays for himself and others.

tbyers11
01-16-2008, 09:30 PM
I don't know about that. I like Jon when he's executing a play - he's very trustworthy with the ball, and he makes good passes.

But I don't think Jon does a good job of seeing the floor like a good PG needs to. Witness the end of the Pitt game, when he took the ill-advised 3 pointer, but he had two open teammates on the other side of the lane. Forced to extemporize, I think Jon shows his limitations.

I remember thinking the same thing about Jon at the end of the Pitt game. But then I remembered Scheyer's great sense of the clock and beautiful extemporaneous;) pass to McClure to win the Clemson game last year. I guess you can't make all the plays.

In the larger sense, I agree with you that having Jon play the "true" PG situation a lot of the time wouldn't be the best use of his skills (or Greg's and Nolan's either).

toughbuff1
01-16-2008, 09:30 PM
As great as Scheyer played, I have to give my vote to Paulus. It was really good to see someone take over like that in crunch time.

Jumbo
01-16-2008, 09:31 PM
I agree it was Scheyer specially with his first half. Also King helped out off the bench in the first half as well with some ridiculous trey's. Though he was missing in the second half for some reason.

King was in when FSU made much of its run early in the second half. Duke went small with Singler at the five most of the way after that.

ugadevil
01-16-2008, 09:32 PM
I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of him or anything like that but when Scheyer was running the break in the first half and pulled up with perfect rhythm and knocked down those 3's on the wing...reminded me of one Jonathan Clay...:D

wisteria
01-16-2008, 09:32 PM
She blinded me - with science! :D

Hmmmm....? I have to admit that I am scratching my head and trying hard to understand what you two meant to say. Sorry if my description of the play was very pathetic. You'll have to excuse me, seeing that English is not my first language.

tbyers11
01-16-2008, 09:37 PM
Hmmmm....? I have to admit that I am scratching my head and trying hard to understand what you two meant to say. Sorry if my description of the play was very pathetic. You'll have to excuse me, seeing that English is not my first language.

I can't speak for others but I think the first comment about poetry in motion was because, to me, it looked like Jon originally tripped over his own feet going for the ball and that is why he had to dive and tip it to Kyle.

The blinded me with Science refers to a popular 80's song that has a line about poetry in motion followed by one that states "She blinded me with science".

There wasn't any problem with your English

JBDuke
01-16-2008, 09:40 PM
I can't speak for others but I think the first comment about poetry in motion was because, to me, it looked like Jon originally tripped over his own feet going for the ball and that is why he had to dive and tip it to Kyle.

The blinded me with Science refers to a popular 80's song that has a line about poetry in motion followed by one that states "She blinded me with science".

There wasn't any problem with your English

Exactly! I was just having fun with 80's song lyrics... Wisteria, your comment was just fine, and your command of written English much better than many on this board.

wisteria
01-16-2008, 09:46 PM
I can't speak for others but I think the first comment about poetry in motion was because, to me, it looked like Jon originally tripped over his own feet going for the ball and that is why he had to dive and tip it to Kyle.


Was it so? I didn't see the tripping, then. I was busy falling in love with Scheyer at that moment. :D


Exactly! I was just having fun with 80's song lyrics... Wisteria, your comment was just fine, and your command of written English much better than many on this board.

Thank you Sir!

JBDuke
01-16-2008, 09:59 PM
That's one play, in one game, in a panic situation. He shot a bit quickly. Last year, in the same situation, he hit McClure for the game-winning layup with a lenght-of-the-floor pass. Watch him game, in, game out -- he's very aware of where his teammates are at all times. In fact, I'd say he and Singler see the floor better than anyone on the team. Now, he doesn't have to play "PG" per se, because Nolan or Greg will be on the floor with him. But he needs the ball in his hands more, because he is much more effective that way, making plays for himself and others.


I remember thinking the same thing about Jon at the end of the Pitt game. But then I remembered Scheyer's great sense of the clock and beautiful extemporaneous;) pass to McClure to win the Clemson game last year. I guess you can't make all the plays.

In the larger sense, I agree with you that having Jon play the "true" PG situation a lot of the time wouldn't be the best use of his skills (or Greg's and Nolan's either).

Yeah - inability to improvise was a bad way to put it. Certainly, Jon did that very well in last year's Clemson game.

Still, I think Jon is like a QB that only throws to his first option. Jon can execute a play very well, and if he sees the pass, he can make it, but IMO the best PGs can see the whole floor and see multiple options - not just the first one. Bobby was a master at this. Greg's not bad, although this game was far from his best. I just haven't seen that in Jon yet.

Now, I'll certainly concede that my knowledge of basketball is inferior to Jumbo's and many others on this board - I'm just a fan after all - but I think there's a good reason that Jon is a wing and not a PG for us.

Having said that, I agree wholeheartedly that we need to get Jon out of the corner and more involved in running the half-court offense.

Jumbo
01-16-2008, 10:08 PM
Yeah - inability to improvise was a bad way to put it. Certainly, Jon did that very well in last year's Clemson game.

Still, I think Jon is like a QB that only throws to his first option. Jon can execute a play very well, and if he sees the pass, he can make it, but IMO the best PGs can see the whole floor and see multiple options - not just the first one. Bobby was a master at this. Greg's not bad, although this game was far from his best. I just haven't seen that in Jon yet.

I don't agree. I think Jon sees the ball two or three steps ahead of the play. Focus on him, both with and without the ball. There's a reason why he's always in the right spot -- his vision and IQ are exceptional (and better than Greg's, IMO).


I think there's a good reason that Jon is a wing and not a PG for us.
I'm not suggesting Duke play Scheyer at PG, but a big part of the reason why Duke plays him on the wing is that they want him to score without worrying about having to initiate the offense. Plus, Duke does have two other PGs.

speedevil
01-16-2008, 10:21 PM
greg clinched and sealed the win for duke, enough said

ArkieDukie
01-16-2008, 10:25 PM
Tonight the phrase, "What a great play by Scheyer!" could've been added to the Dick Vitale Drinking Game - except Dickie V wasn't calling the game. And I didn't mind hearing that particular phrase over and over again. What a phenomenal game for Jon!

Jumbo
01-16-2008, 10:34 PM
greg clinched and sealed the win for duke, enough said

"Enough said?" What does that even mean? Before the last two minutes, he had launched at least three airballs and had just one assist. He made a couple of huge plays down the stretch. But Duke already had the lead. Duke doesn't have that lead without Scheyer.

IUGrad03
01-16-2008, 10:57 PM
I voted for Paulus. Like someone else said, he is and has been my favorite for a couple of years now so I am definitely biased, but I was very proud to see how he took the leadership role at the end of the game. No, the first 37 minutes were not pretty, but he came through when it mattered.

That being said, I'm sure Scheyer is going to win this one and I am definitely okay with that as well. Will he be coming off the bench this weekend?

devildeac
01-16-2008, 11:07 PM
I voted for Paulus. Like someone else said, he is and has been my favorite for a couple of years now so I am definitely biased, but I was very proud to see how he took the leadership role at the end of the game. No, the first 37 minutes were not pretty, but he came through when it mattered.

That being said, I'm sure Scheyer is going to win this one and I am definitely okay with that as well. Will he be coming off the bench this weekend?

Tough to vote for any one other than Jon. Most of the starters were MIA for large stretches tonite. I voted for Greg vs. Davidson but not tonite. He simply needs to play well for all the minutes he is in the game and not just the last 2-3 minutes.

dukepsy1963
01-16-2008, 11:27 PM
Scheyer is smooth, smart, and confident. I was delighted to see him once again show us what he can do. When he has the ball I feel a certain security that he is not going to do something dumb. He is one classy young man and I think he will get better and better and better.

OTH Paulus scared me to death tonight! Except for the final 2 minutes, he had a terrible night.

King looked better on defense to me. He's coming along.

But, the man of the game......Scheyer, no question.

elvis14
01-16-2008, 11:40 PM
This was an easy vote for me, Jon....he played a great game, not just a great 2 minutes.

Bob Green
01-17-2008, 04:13 AM
Scheyer is smooth, smart, and confident. I was delighted to see him once again show us what he can do. When he has the ball I feel a certain security that he is not going to do something dumb. He is one classy young man and I think he will get better and better and better.


I agree with dukespy1963's post 100 percent. Jon Scheyer played a great game and deserves the MOTM award.

Delaware
01-17-2008, 04:59 AM
Maybe we are not way ahead without Scheyer's play in the first half and I was seriously questioing Coach K's sanity when he brought Paulus back in late in the game after the way he had played, but the steal/layin and the drive layin were the game winning plays IMO. I would split my vote if I could and have no problem with Scheyer winning the vote going away (he simply had the best half of basketball of anyone on Duke's team thus far this year, I think).

captmojo
01-17-2008, 06:39 AM
Without Jon's stellar performance does Duke win this game? Maybe, but it wouldn't be nearly as much fun to watch.

Singler should be allowed to play with an "old time hockey" mask.:D

CDu
01-17-2008, 06:59 AM
Once again, people are letting Paulus' last few minutes outweigh the first 37. Paulus played probably his worst game of the season tonight. Do not let the last minute or two convince you otherwise. He was playing so poorly that I was going to post to see if he was sick or something. He committed only 2 turnovers, but threw 2 or 3 passes that I remember should have been turnovers but for some diving efforts to save the ball by his teammates.

The fact that Paulus is second in the voting right now is absolutely absurd. If he'd played well in the first 38 minutes, we might not have had to sweat it out in the final minutes. The game is 40 minutes long, and the things that happen in the first 38 minutes should not be completely offset by 2-3 plays in the last few moments.

The player of the game last night was, without question, Jon Scheyer. This should have been virtually unanimous.

CDu
01-17-2008, 07:07 AM
I voted for Paulus. Like someone else said, he is and has been my favorite for a couple of years now so I am definitely biased, but I was very proud to see how he took the leadership role at the end of the game. No, the first 37 minutes were not pretty, but he came through when it mattered.

That being said, I'm sure Scheyer is going to win this one and I am definitely okay with that as well. Will he be coming off the bench this weekend?

I have a big beef with the "he came through when it mattered argument. For one thing, that's not actually true. His first layup gave us a 5-point lead with 2.5 minutes left. His next basket (driving layup) gave us a 7 point lead with 45 seconds left. By then, the game was virtually out of reach. The technical occurred with 30 seconds left and Duke leading by 7, so the game was nearly out of reach.

But my bigger beef is that EVERY MINUTE OF THE GAME MATTERS! If Paulus had not been so awful for the first 37 minutes, it likely wouldn't have been close with 5 minutes to go. Instead, Paulus played horribly for 37 minutes. Luckily, Scheyer carried us for those 37 minutes. Without his game, we're probably down 15 or so when Paulus finally decided to show up.

bjornolf
01-17-2008, 07:48 AM
I voted for Paulus. The award is MAN of the Match. I vote Scheyer for MVP cause we ain't in it without him, Singler for IotM (Iceman otM) for that 3-ball when we're down, and Paulus for MotM for his toughness at the end.

365Duke
01-17-2008, 07:59 AM
I voted for Paulus. The award is MAN of the Match. I vote Scheyer for MVP cause we ain't in it without him, Singler for IotM (Iceman otM) for that 3-ball when we're down, and Paulus for MotM for his toughness at the end.

BUT.... turn that around to Man of the MATCH. As in the whole MATCH, not the end of it. Jon showed determined leadership, and embraced the role when it was obvious that DM was having an off night. GP was a savior in the last 3 minutes, but IMO Jon did not hesitate to grab it and run with it from the beginning. I'm with Jumbo, not even close;)

CDu
01-17-2008, 08:13 AM
I voted for Paulus. The award is MAN of the Match. I vote Scheyer for MVP cause we ain't in it without him, Singler for IotM (Iceman otM) for that 3-ball when we're down, and Paulus for MotM for his toughness at the end.

Where was that toughness and manliness when we needed it earlier in the game? You can't only be manly for 2 minutes and deserve honor, in my opinion. When we needed points in the first half, Scheyer was the man (and Paulus was flinging up airballs). When we needed points during FSU's run, Scheyer hit some huge shots (and Paulus was non-existent). It wasn't until we had a late lead that Paulus stepped up.

Also, I don't think that your interpretation was the intended interpretation of the Man of the Match award.

bjornolf
01-17-2008, 08:56 AM
Where was that toughness and manliness when we needed it earlier in the game? You can't only be manly for 2 minutes and deserve honor, in my opinion. When we needed points in the first half, Scheyer was the man (and Paulus was flinging up airballs). When we needed points during FSU's run, Scheyer hit some huge shots (and Paulus was non-existent). It wasn't until we had a late lead that Paulus stepped up.

Also, I don't think that your interpretation was the intended interpretation of the Man of the Match award.

I was just having some fun. Scheyer deserves it by the true definition of the award. As I said, we wouldn't have been in it at the end without Scheyer. However, we don't win without GP and KS. Further, I wouldn't say GP wasn't being manly during the game, he was just playing poorly. I think there's a difference, personally. Hey, I've always heard that the last few minutes are "gut-check time" and the time you prove yourself. Scheyer was great for the first 36 minutes. Where was he those last 4? Just playing devil's advocate again. Scheyer was inspired last night. GP was gutty and tough and manly. Can they split it? :o

CDu
01-17-2008, 09:24 AM
I was just having some fun. Scheyer deserves it by the true definition of the award. As I said, we wouldn't have been in it at the end without Scheyer. However, we don't win without GP and KS. Further, I wouldn't say GP wasn't being manly during the game, he was just playing poorly. I think there's a difference, personally. Hey, I've always heard that the last few minutes are "gut-check time" and the time you prove yourself. Scheyer was great for the first 36 minutes. Where was he those last 4? Just playing devil's advocate again. Scheyer was inspired last night. GP was gutty and tough and manly. Can they split it? :o

Sorry to have missed your humor. As for your playing of devil's advocate, I'd say that great play over the first 36 minutes substantially outweighs great play over 4 minutes. Not a strong argument in favor of Paulus. As for the "gut-check time" thing, that's a bit misleading. If Scheyer wasn't huge in the first 90% of the game, then the last 10% might have been irrelevant, with us down by 10 or 15. The entire game is "gut-check time," in my opinion. The last few minutes get magnified by folks because what you see last tends to be what you remember, but every minute is important.

SilkyJ
01-17-2008, 11:32 AM
It's Scheyer, and it's not even close.

Agreed. Not even close.



I'm thinking back to all the arguments this summer when people tried to say Scheyer a) wasn't a good perimeter defender and b) was a spot-up shooter who couldn't create. Is anyone still saying that now?

Is that where we landed on that one? I remember a susbtantial # of people (myself included, and from the looks of your post, probably you too) who said he WASN'T a spot-up shooter but rather an all around scorer and the comparisons to JJ were unwarranted. He's got a good jumper but the guy is a scorer and more importantly an all around gamer.



I loved the move K made to put the ball in Jon's hands late, move Paulus over to the wing, and let Scheyer and Singler run the high pick-and-roll. That led to Singler's three off the kickout from Scheyer when we were down one, and we never looked back from there.

I just wish we had gotten the ball in Jon's hands more. When a guy like him (or king taylor) is hot, you get him the ball. I remember after one point late in the 2nd half he was semi-open on the wing and screaming for Gerald who was at the top of the key to pass it to him but Gerald didn't even look in his direction. As much as we like to spread the floor and move the ball, when I guy like him is hot, you throw the book out the window and get him the ball.


That's one play, in one game, in a panic situation. He shot a bit quickly. Last year, in the same situation, he hit McClure for the game-winning layup with a lenght-of-the-floor pass.

Agreed that it was only one play (the pitt game) but his pass to McClure was nowhere near a length of the floor pass. He was just across midcourt and dave was at the foul line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BfScg9cNCs

2:35 mark in this video...



As great as Scheyer played, I have to give my vote to Paulus. It was really good to see someone take over like that in crunch time.

It was good to see GREG step up in crunch time after such an aweful game. that was definitely encouraging.


King was in when FSU made much of its run early in the second half. Duke went small with Singler at the five most of the way after that.

King was playing center at that time no? I dont mind him as the 4, but when he's our center with jon, demarc, gerald, and greg thats just too small of a lineup, imo.


I voted for Paulus. Like someone else said, he is and has been my favorite for a couple of years now so I am definitely biased, but I was very proud to see how he took the leadership role at the end of the game. No, the first 37 minutes were not pretty, but he came through when it mattered.

That being said, I'm sure Scheyer is going to win this one and I am definitely okay with that as well. Will he be coming off the bench this weekend?

You know I was wondering if he would come off the bench in the 2nd half. I was hoping K would start him. I'll keep preachin it, when he is hot GET. HIM. THE. *&^%$#@@#$%^. BALL