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OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2008, 12:48 PM
carolina vs State. From 9 - 9 to 43 - 11 with a couple minutes left in the first half. Ugh!

First half ends 43 - 13 carolina up.

pamtar
01-12-2008, 12:50 PM
The pack is down by 30 at half. 43 - 13!

That sounds pretty repetitive since it got moved. So, I'll edit.

Mmm, what to say?

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 12:52 PM
Even UNC-Asheville put up a bigger fight than the Wolfpack right now. Even Jay Bilas said it was the worst half of basketball he's seen all year.

CatchTheFox
01-12-2008, 12:53 PM
Bilas: "I have not seen a performance as embarrassing as that one all year long."

I would second that, except I would say that was one of the most embarrassing halves ever.

Devilsfan
01-12-2008, 12:53 PM
Mybe they can break 30 if the ch walkons get in.

grossbus
01-12-2008, 12:54 PM
humiliating. carolina fans stood and cheered when state finally made a basket near the end of the first half. score had been tied at 9. unc went on a 34-5 run. ouch.

sandinmyshoes
01-12-2008, 12:54 PM
I know UNC has a very good team, but NCSU is just embarrassing themselves in the first half of this game. It's brutal. On top of that, Lawson may be playing at less than 100% because of a turned ankle. I wonder if Lowe can at least get them to make a half of it, since I am doubting NCSU has a 30 point rally in them. :confused:

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 12:55 PM
jebus.

sandinmyshoes
01-12-2008, 12:56 PM
I swear I posted my thread before seeing this one. :p

Mods, feel free to incorporate it here.

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 12:56 PM
I swear I posted my thread before seeing this one. :p

Mods, feel free to incorporate it here.

We all did it, there wasn't thread about the game until now.

pamtar
01-12-2008, 12:57 PM
I swear I posted my thread before seeing this one. :p

Mods, feel free to incorporate it here.

To be fair, Ozzie got his in first.

captmojo
01-12-2008, 12:58 PM
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 12:59 PM
Say what you will about ACC conference pride, but I find it pretty sad that the only two sure bets for the NCAA tournament are Duke and UNC.

dukelifer
01-12-2008, 01:00 PM
Some Duke fans complain about the team's scoring droughts- well you have not seen a drought unless you witnessed what happened today by State. What was almost impossible to believe is that in all that action in 12 minutes where state score 1 bucket- State never went to the line- to slow things down and try to regain poise. It was unlike anything I have ever seen. It was an embarrassing performance for them. When the wheels fell off they had no-one to turn to that would get the back on track. But the scary part is that Carolina did have something to do with it. They forced state to play much faster than they are used to and pressure very well. Fortunately Duke will have a few games under their belts before they face them.

sandinmyshoes
01-12-2008, 01:01 PM
I just wanted to point out that my thread wasn't a parody of the State is really good thread. :D

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 01:02 PM
Some Duke fans complain about the team's scoring droughts- well you have not seen a drought unless you witnessed what happened today by State. What was almost impossible to believe is that in all that action in 12 minutes where state score 1 bucket- State never went to the line- to slow things down and try to regain poise. It was unlike anything I have ever seen. It was an embarrassing performance for them. When the wheels fell off they had no-one to turn to that would get the back on track. But the scary part is that Carolina did have something to do with it. They forced state to play much faster than they are used to and pressure very well. Fortunately Duke will have a few games under their belts before they face them.

In a way, the point still stands, UNC is NOT the team you want to have a scoring drought against, whether you're Duke, State or anyone else.

YmoBeThere
01-12-2008, 01:04 PM
I haven't seen State play yet this year(maybe I'll watch the second half but Vandy-Kentucky is on at 1:30 and I am also a Vandy alum for my masters), but I still remember Costner and McCauley schooling us at the end of last year. I know Chapee Heeelll is a different team, but have they regressed from their form at the end of last year?

pamtar
01-12-2008, 01:05 PM
Wasn't State down by like twenty at the half in the tournament finals? Not to say they are going to win, they did make it close last year.

sandinmyshoes
01-12-2008, 01:05 PM
Ordinarily if UNC is beating a team comfortably, I just find something else to watch. But that half was hypnotic, in a macabre way. I just kept watching to see how bad it could actually get for State.

uncwdevil
01-12-2008, 01:10 PM
From the DBR ACC Roundup on this game:

"It should be a great game, and one thing that Sidney Lowe may have learned from Jim Valvano is how to pump emotions, or at least the emotions that surround big games (he may have a way to go in mastering the more mundane emotions)."

Couldn't be more wrong. It is a terrible game and State looks incredibly uninspired and without emotion. Pathetic.

CatchTheFox
01-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Ordinarily if UNC is beating a team comfortably, I just find something else to watch. But that half was hypnotic, in a macabre way. I just kept watching to see how bad it could actually get for State.

I agree, it was like a train wreck and I just couldn't look away.

YmoBeThere
01-12-2008, 01:11 PM
Does Lowe have the jacket from last year on? Maybe that is what is missing?

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 01:12 PM
I haven't seen State play yet this year(maybe I'll watch the second half but Vandy-Kentucky is on at 1:30 and I am also a Vandy alum for my masters), but I still remember Costner and McCauley schooling us at the end of last year. I know Chapee Heeelll is a different team, but have they regressed from their form at the end of last year?

Are you asking if UNC has regressed from last year? From what I've seen of them this year I'd say no. They may not be as deep but they seem to be more efficient. Whatever they were missing in Brandon Wright, Danny Green and especially Wayne Ellington have stepped up.

bbar7502
01-12-2008, 01:12 PM
it hurts to watch this game...but watching it doesn't make me fear unc but realize just how bad state this year. its not just pg problems either. i don't really have much faith in el sid's coaching ability. all that being said, I feel like we have the best shot of beating carolina this year and we will.....gthc!

YmoBeThere
01-12-2008, 01:13 PM
More if State has regressed...rather than UNC.

RelativeWays
01-12-2008, 01:16 PM
More if State has regressed...rather than UNC.

Oh, in that case, yes...emphatically yes.

bbar7502
01-12-2008, 01:50 PM
the subs finally get to come in hopefully they can hang on to the 31 point lead

OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2008, 01:59 PM
Does Lowe have the jacket from last year on? Maybe that is what is missing?

He was wearing it. Didn't help. He needs to find a new good luck charm -- someone who can score.

jipops
01-12-2008, 02:03 PM
I just cannot believe how unprepared and dis-interested State came out in this game. Yes unc is the best team in the conference, by a wide margin, but to simply be blown away in the first half by an ACC rival like that was simply inexcusable. It's one thing to go completely cold shooting and miss every single shot in the lane, but it's even worse allowing Carolina to have easy uncontested shots in the lane almost every trip down the floor. This was a truly pathetic performance. It was even worse defensively than it was offensively. If I put on one of those pansy colored jersey's I could have scored too today.

There is no way State puts forth this kind of sorry effort when they play us. UNC has a great team, there is no question. But this game was more of a reflection of State's lack of effort than Carolina's power as a team.

OZZIE4DUKE
01-12-2008, 02:05 PM
From the DBR ACC Roundup on this game:

"It should be a great game, and one thing that Sidney Lowe may have learned from Jim Valvano is how to pump emotions, or at least the emotions that surround big games (he may have a way to go in mastering the more mundane emotions)."

Couldn't be more wrong. It is a terrible game and State looks incredibly uninspired and without emotion. Pathetic.

Chris Corchiani was on the radio yesterday with David Glenn on 850thebuzz. He commented that for the big games vs. Duke and carolina, Valvano didn't think big speeches were needed, just saying something like "let's go get these guys". It was for other games that he gave emotional speeches to pump up his guys.

Something for State fans to start pondering: was today's drubbing due to lack of playing talent, lack of coaching talent, both or just an anomalous aberration? I think it is a combination of 1 and 4, and being without their starting point guard didn't help.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-12-2008, 02:17 PM
The game which just ended was not like any previous NCSU - UNC game I can remember. I was struck by the flat emotions displayed by the team and by Sydney Lowe. Never seen Sydney so flat.... Jay Bilas commented that he thought that there was some sort of problem within the team, that they didn't seem to like each other very much... lack of trust.

superdave
01-12-2008, 02:35 PM
I went to the game - first time I've seen NCSU this year. Costner looked overweight, sluggish and unhappy. He really appeared to sulk and have a bad attitude. Not sure what is going on there.

Besides that, NCSU has no quality point guard play and got pushed into bad situations and bad passes, even with UNC's mediocre D.

UNC looked fine but they really didnt need to play hard today, so they were on cruise control for the most part.

I really hate Carolina fans.

sandinmyshoes
01-12-2008, 03:38 PM
I really hate Carolina fans.

Did you not know there would be any in the Dean Dome? ;)

jimsumner
01-12-2008, 05:03 PM
For those of you who rag on Greg Paulus, State is what a team looks like when they really don't have a point guard.

And yes, there do seem to be some co-existence problems. I freely confess that I thought Costner had All-America potential before the start of the season but he looks like he would rather be anywhere else right now.

Still, we've all seen teams that have had their doors blown off and come back to thrive. But Lowe is going to have to do one heck of coaching job to turn this ship around.

Wander
01-12-2008, 05:33 PM
You guys are so lost. Don't you know NC State is going to go undefeated the rest of the year? Fells predicted they would only have four losses all year, and this was their fourth.

Patrick Yates
01-12-2008, 06:19 PM
First and foremost, I would like to state that there is no excuse for a team to play so flat against their biggest rival. State should be ashamed.

Still.........

That has got to be a hard situation at NCSU in the post, chemistry wise. Costner and McCauley ended the year on an upswing. They were playing well and had some big games. By all rights, they should have been looking toward this year thinking that they were going to be BMOCs. I bet each one thought they would be THE focal point of the O, but were willing to coexist.

Instead, an incoming frosh steals the headlines, PT, and SPG. The kicker is that the kid, JJ Hickson, is better than either McCauley or Costner. Significantly better. Bigger, faster, stronger, better jumper, etc. So the two returnees go from being ascendant stars to sidekicks.

I am not saying that they are handling it well. They most definitely are not handling it well. I am just saying that is a hard situation for anyone. Honestly, I don't recall ever seeing such a situation at Duke, but I am too young to remember K's early classes. Still, I don't think any holdovers were expecting to be stars only to be supplanted. I doubt I would handle that well, and, as it has been stated on this board repeatedly, these are college kids we are talking about.

Also, some people did see this comming. I thought Atsur would be a huge loss. This team needs a steadying influence at the PG, desparately. That ain't happening. This team might actually benefit from losing its best player, when Hickson goes pro this year. Not anything on him necessarily, but the team doesn't seem to be adjusting to him well.

The preceeding should not be taken to mean that one and dones are poison to chemistry and should be avoided. It is up to a coach to integrate superior talents and make sure EVERYONE deals with it. Lowe is an example of how failing to do this can kill a team.

Patrick Yates

Olympic Fan
01-12-2008, 06:46 PM
the subs finally get to come in hopefully they can hang on to the 31 point lead

I've never been one to rag on coaches for piling it on, but over the years we've had to put up with numerous visits from our UNC friends complaining about Coach K not calling off the dogs -- one, I believe, earlier this year when the invader didn't seem to realize that Patrick Davidson is the team's only available walk-on (since K is trying to redshirt Steve Johnson).

Anyway, this is a game to remember the next time that happens ... with three minutes left, Roy had all five starters in with a 31-point lead. He finally got Hansbrough out, replacing him with top frontcourt reserve Alex Stepheson, but left that unit -- four starters and a sixth man -- on the floor until just over a minute left when Williams finally decided that the game was safe and cleared his bench.

Again, I don't have a problem with him doing that -- it's the other team's job to stop you from running it up. My only point is I didn't want to hear any more c$#p from their fans complaining about K's substitutions.

dukie8
01-12-2008, 06:57 PM
I've never been one to rag on coaches for piling it on, but over the years we've had to put up with numerous visits from our UNC friends complaining about Coach K not calling off the dogs -- one, I believe, earlier this year when the invader didn't seem to realize that Patrick Davidson is the team's only available walk-on (since K is trying to redshirt Steve Johnson).

Anyway, this is a game to remember the next time that happens ... with three minutes left, Roy had all five starters in with a 31-point lead. He finally got Hansbrough out, replacing him with top frontcourt reserve Alex Stepheson, but left that unit -- four starters and a sixth man -- on the floor until just over a minute left when Williams finally decided that the game was safe and cleared his bench.

Again, I don't have a problem with him doing that -- it's the other team's job to stop you from running it up. My only point is I didn't want to hear any more c$#p from their fans complaining about K's substitutions.

i completely agree that what goes around comes around and you shouldn't keep your starters in until the bitter end of complete blow-outs. however, just because unc did it today doesn't make it any better when k left redick in up by 25 at halftime in cis to fire 3s for almost the entire 2nd half. unfortunately, that happened too many times.

Karl Beem
01-12-2008, 07:04 PM
i completely agree that what goes around comes around and you shouldn't keep your starters in until the bitter end of complete blow-outs. however, just because unc did it today doesn't make it any better when k left redick in up by 25 at halftime in cis to fire 3s for almost the entire 2nd half. unfortunately, that happened too many times.

How many times?:cool:

jimsumner
01-12-2008, 07:13 PM
"one, I believe, earlier this year when the invader didn't seem to realize that Patrick Davidson is the team's only available walk-on (since K is trying to redshirt Steve Johnson)."

Jordan, not Patrick.

Classof06
01-12-2008, 08:57 PM
I really hate Carolina fans.

Haha, I was watching the game thinking the exact same thing. I remember the Doherty days when they used to boo their own team. Apparently, all is now well in Tar Hole land.

UNC is clearly a much better team than NC State but I honestly think the Wolfpack's performance was an isolated incident. I say that because no legitimate D-1 team in a BCS conference misses as many layups and uncontested shots as NC State did today. With each missed shot, you could just see their team become increasingly deflated as both teams knew NC State had to make those shots to have any chance of winning.

While it's easy to question Sidney Lowe's coaching ability, you have to remember that every time he's had a healthy point guard, they've won pretty consistently. Atsur missed a good chunk of last year and the PG they brought in this year is now out for the year due to injury. No team can succeed on a regular basis without consistent point guard play. Duke fans saw that first-hand last year.

I think the most concerning part about Lowe is his inability to integrate JJ Hickson into the offense. With the addition of Hickson have come struggles for a Ben McAuley-Brandon Costner combo that was very impressive towards the end of last season. Again, it's hard to integrate a player like Hickson into the offense with no real Point Guard, but it's something they'll have to figure out. What sucks is that it looks like Hickson is a one-and-done player, so it almost seems like he'll set the program back a year.

Patrick Yates
01-12-2008, 11:14 PM
I think that there are two teams that UNC will truly "run it up." Duke, and NCSU. These are UNC's two big rivalry games, and the fans, ie influential alums, want to paste both of these schools.

As much as UNC hates Duke, the alums actually want to destroy NCSU more than Duke, just because the UNC alums get to see NCSU alums a work on monday, or out in the community, etc. It isn't really something we Devils experience, because of our far flung alumni base. But here in the state, crushing another triangle team is a big thing, especially for the state schools.

I gotta think Roy has it in for Duke and UNC, and will run it up, or face the ire, or at least the reduced donations, of a peeved base. Just getting rivalry wins is big. Blowouts are just cherry.

Patrick Yates

devildeac
01-12-2008, 11:41 PM
I've never been one to rag on coaches for piling it on, but over the years we've had to put up with numerous visits from our UNC friends complaining about Coach K not calling off the dogs -- one, I believe, earlier this year when the invader didn't seem to realize that Patrick Davidson is the team's only available walk-on (since K is trying to redshirt Steve Johnson).

Anyway, this is a game to remember the next time that happens ... with three minutes left, Roy had all five starters in with a 31-point lead. He finally got Hansbrough out, replacing him with top frontcourt reserve Alex Stepheson, but left that unit -- four starters and a sixth man -- on the floor until just over a minute left when Williams finally decided that the game was safe and cleared his bench.

Again, I don't have a problem with him doing that -- it's the other team's job to stop you from running it up. My only point is I didn't want to hear any more c$#p from their fans complaining about K's substitutions.

Don't forget lawson's dunk in the ACC tourney final last year with less than 10seconds remaining and the holes up by 6 or 7 points. Think one of ours would do that or simply stand at mid-court or in a corner and dribble out the clock...

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-12-2008, 11:46 PM
I think that there are two teams that UNC will truly "run it up." Duke, and NCSU. These are UNC's two big rivalry games, and the fans, ie influential alums, want to paste both of these schools.

As much as UNC hates Duke, the alums actually want to destroy NCSU more than Duke, just because the UNC alums get to see NCSU alums a work on monday, or out in the community, etc. It isn't really something we Devils experience, because of our far flung alumni base. But here in the state, crushing another triangle team is a big thing, especially for the state schools.

I gotta think Roy has it in for Duke and UNC, and will run it up, or face the ire, or at least the reduced donations, of a peeved base. Just getting rivalry wins is big. Blowouts are just cherry.

Patrick Yates

The deep seated feelings Carolina folk may have for NC State go back at least to the early conference (Southern then ACC) dominance State enjoyed while Everett Case was their coach.

In many ways, Coach Case brought big time college basketball to North Carolina. For instance, I think I remember that he started the custom or tradition of cutting down nets after big wins. Having the winner of the conference tournament earn the only conference bid in the NCAA tournament was his idea. He recruited many good players over the years including some fellow Hoosiers who became his assistant coaches. The one most important to us was Vic Bubas.

I am agreeing with you in part, but I'm adding some of the historical roots of the animosity between Carolina and NC State as being pretty important, too. As is the case with most longtime rivalries, the friction goes 'way back and is built on many incidents which are passed on like folk lore, fueling the rivalry.

jimsumner
01-13-2008, 12:10 AM
Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-13-2008, 12:22 AM
Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.

Amen, brother!

Indoor66
01-13-2008, 08:40 AM
Case certainly spiced up the rivalry and prompted UNC to go after someone who could beat the Old Gray Fox.

But the rivalry goes back to the beginning of time, or at least the Morrill Land Grant Act. State-Carolina is no different and no stronger than Clemson-South Carolina, Virginia-Virginia Tech, Auburn-Alabama, Texas-Texas A&M, Mississippi-Mississippi State, and others. Lots of inherent conflicts of class and culture in these rivalries.

Yeah, No Class meets No Culture!

AnimalFriendly
01-13-2008, 01:07 PM
Complaining about Roy leaving his starters in too long, at least with respect to yesterday's game, is unfounded. As Jay Bilas rightly pointed out afterwards, the coach of the team ahead at the end of a game is under no obligation to remove his starters until after the other team's coach concedes by removing his. No obligation at all on any level. Williams took out his remaining starters - I think at least one was already out - right after Lowe took his out.

As for last year's ACC title game, you're seldom if ever going to see a player catch a pass like Lawson did while running straight toward the basket and then pull up. Enough said. Those of you old enough to remember might also recall Lowe's pass between one of Carolina's players legs at Reynolds in '83....and then his mocking Dean Smith on the way back down the court in the waning moments of that game. What goes around comes around :).

sandinmyshoes
01-13-2008, 01:27 PM
I've noticed that Williams rarely, almost never, puts in his true end of the bench walk on scrubs until sometime around the two minute mark. He generally seems to want to give his second team scholarship players some run. Understandable, I guess. Although it isn't much in the mercy department when your second teamers are as good as Green, Stephenson and even Thomas.

So on the one hand, I understand what he's doing, but I don't let that interfere with annoying UNC fans by pointing out that the scrubs aren't in the game despite a large lead. :D

AnimalFriendly
01-13-2008, 02:39 PM
Fair enough - I've noticed myself that the true scrubs seldom show up in UNC's games before the under 2-minute mark. I just was glad to hear Bilas make a pointed statement about it really being up to the trailing team's coach to throw in the towel first when it comes to removing starters.

jimsumner
01-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Billy Tubbs was notorious for running up scores. 30-point lead, two minutes left, he's got his starters in and he's pressing full court. When asked about this, his response was basically "if they don't like it, then they should get better."

I probably wouldn't go that far. But, I did an article for BDW a few weeks ago on Fred Shabel. You may remember that Shabel was an assistant at Duke through the '63 season and took over at UConn for '64. As fate would have it, Duke played Connecticut for the 1964 East Regional title. Duke won 101-54. Bubas emptied his bench but Duke continued to attack the basket, despite the absence of a shot clock.

I asked Shabel if he thought that Bubas should have pulled back. He was adamant that Bubas should not have. It was Bubas' job to coach his team and if Bubas thought that he had things to work on, lineups to evaluate, then it was none of his (Shabel's) business.

An interesting perspective from someone on the wrong end of a blow-out and someone who knows substantially more about college hoops than me.

Slackerb
01-13-2008, 04:34 PM
As god-awful as the first half game was, and boy was it amazingly awful, no one seems to be talking about how they came out in the second half.

No, they didn't come back. But they did manage to keep the scored tied up for most of the game, and came away from the second half with a -1 margin, even after UNC kept it's starters in most of the game.

And if you didn't see a 30 point blowout coming, you clearly haven't watched State this year.

To expect a team that has been struggling to win against the likes of NCCU and Presbyterian to come into the Dean Dome and face the #1 team for the conference opener without their starting point guard and with a banged up lineup....

dukie8
01-15-2008, 09:21 PM
nc state followed up the unc drubbing with a 16-point beating from clemson. it doesn't get any easier on saturday with miami coming to down. i have to assume that they are close to meltdown mode.

dukelifer
01-15-2008, 10:03 PM
At the end of last year, Brandon Costner was looking like he might be the player of the year in the ACC. Tonight he followed a 4 point performance at UNC with a O-fer. That is pretty hard to believe. This team is having some odd chemistry issues. Having no point guard hurts a lot - but still. If Lowe can right this ship- State may be in for a very long season.

uncwdevil
01-15-2008, 10:24 PM
nc state followed up the unc drubbing with a 16-point beating from clemson. it doesn't get any easier on saturday with miami coming to down. i have to assume that they are close to meltdown mode.

I think they'll beat Miami somehow. Miami may be this season's Clemson.