Another one for UNC....

[CMS2478]

Looks like Carolina just got Reggie Bullock......Soph. at Kinston High School. Looks very talented from what I saw at the Glaxo. :(

[Ignatius07]

I know they also got that guy Marshall from the class of '10 who is the #2-rated point guard. Are we recruiting Brandon Knight (who is the #1 pg)?

[Duke12]

You all have to admit we will be playing from behind for the foreseeable future. Roy is simply a great recruiter and has figured out how to distribute playing time

[Turtleboy]

Looks like Carolina just got Reggie Bullock......Soph. at Kinston High School. Looks very talented from what I saw at the Glaxo. :(Link?

[norduck]

Link?
http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2278237/

[dukebballcamper90-91]

that is where stackhouse is from.

[yancem]

Looks like Carolina just got Reggie Bullock......Soph. at Kinston High School. Looks very talented from what I saw at the Glaxo. :(

Seriously!!! What the heck is going on? Is Ol' Roy walking around high school gyms with a bunch of Benjamin's? In the last 4 months they received commitments from 2 seniors, 3 juniors and 2 sophomores. Holy cow! Of course the 3 juniors and 2 sophomores can't sign for quite some time and we should know that when an underclassman declares it doesn't always stick (read: Taylor King). Regardless, it sure would be nice if Duke could get a couple of studs to give K a call :)

[SeattleIrish]

UNC's current recruiting makes it hard to maintain a realistic perspective on Duke's recent efforts. Cognitively, I know Duke's recruiting has been excellent, with probably a top-three national rating if the recruiting classes for the past five years were averaged (does anyone have that data?).

Unfortunately, our biggest rival seems to have the #1 recruiting class, on average. Viserally, this seems to lower my perspective on our recruiting rankings - damn.

Bullock, at 6'5, looks to be an outstanding prospect, and Henson seems like a Hansborough clone. I really don't want another Hansborough in baby-blue. Unfortunately, there's really nothing short of some sort of recruiting scandal (ain't gonna happen) that will slow UNC down.

The rivaly is great and will continue to be great, but UNC's recruiting efforts are simply off the chart lately.

And it pisses me off.

s.i.

[hansdumbwilltravel]

Henson and Hansbrough are at opposite ends as far as basketball skills are concerned. Hans entire game is based on strength and Henson's main weakness is strength. Henson only weighs 200 lbs and is a finesse player.

Yes, Roy is putting together an impressive cast of recruits but only 5 players can play at the same time. It's nice to be 7 deep at the PF/C position but not really necessary in the college game.

[SeattleIrish]

Henson weighs 200 lbs and he's in the class of 2009, with the stickiest label being "potential":

"Big fella who is a year or two away from growing into what will be a strong frame. Talented on offense, his defense will come because he's long and has the frame. " (from Scout.com)

He's two years away from being a freshman in college, and he's got the frame to grow into a beast (I'm only going on what I've read...i've never seen him play). Henson is certainly not the Hans we see now, as a Jr. in college, but he does have the potential to be just that.

Of course, I'll defer to you if you've seen him play, hdwt.

s.i.

p.s. - yes, only 5 can play at a time, but when you can play a fast full-court game and work in 9 or 10 great players, it ends up being worth a lot more than just five good ones, imo.

[jawk24]

This sucks, we’re being lapped by Crapolina. Coach K needs to start hitting the recruiting trail and get the job done. Looks like we’re going to play second fiddle to Crapolina for a while since we can’t keep up in recruiting.

[Uncle Drew]

UNC's current recruiting makes it hard to maintain a realistic perspective on Duke's recent efforts. Cognitively, I know Duke's recruiting has been excellent, with probably a top-three national rating if the recruiting classes for the past five years were averaged (does anyone have that data?).

Unfortunately, our biggest rival seems to have the #1 recruiting class, on average. Viserally, this seems to lower my perspective on our recruiting rankings - damn.

Bullock, at 6'5, looks to be an outstanding prospect, and Henson seems like a Hansborough clone. I really don't want another Hansborough in baby-blue. Unfortunately, there's really nothing short of some sort of recruiting scandal (ain't gonna happen) that will slow UNC down.

The rivaly is great and will continue to be great, but UNC's recruiting efforts are simply off the chart lately.

And it pisses me off.

s.i.


No matter how optimistic you are the recent news of UNC hauling in verbal commitments from 4 very good players to go along with what they have coming in next year is BAD news. Those who say the rivalry feeds of one another can believe what they like. But if UNC is able to bring in talent early and often the only feeding going on will be UNC sticking a toothpick in Duke and calling them an Hors d'œuvre. It's bad enough having to watch Psycho play four years and run amok on Duke's interior like a bull in a china shop. But to get news his replacements are on the way with substantial height is bad news for any ACC fan. Possibly the worst thing about getting these players so early is it allows them to concentrate on other project players from these classes they might want and focus on the next two classes and take aim (and probably get) the biggest guns. One poster stated UNC can't put all five on the floor at one time which is true. But having a team full of bullets is like reloading a magazine in a gun. And it makes it even more frightening when you're doing battle with a sling shot. Sure David killed Goliath with a sling shot. I'd just feel better if we were armed with a couple of nukes.

Duke has talent on this team and more talent on it's way. But things are going to have to go right for Duke and very wrong for Duke if this one sided recruiting war continues at this pace.

[wiscodevil]

you guys need your heads examined if you're questioning duke's recruiting success/strategy/effort.

[MChambers]

In the fall of 1990, UNC had the highest rated incoming freshman class, including Montross, Phelps, and Brian Reese. Duke's class was not as highly rated. I remember Coach K being quoted as saying something nice about UNC's class, but adding that Duke's class was very good too.
UNC's class won a national title in 1993. Of course, our class won two titles.

[acciconoclast]

IIRC, the key in 1990 was that Dean Smith had envisioned Grant Hill as being the linchpin/game-changer of UNC's 1990 class, but Duke managed (in what was seen as a huge recruiting upset) to beat out UNC for Hill. Smith knew that was a key recruiting defeat and probably is still muttering/whining about the loss :)


In the fall of 1990, UNC had the highest rated incoming freshman class, including Montross, Phelps, and Brian Reese. Duke's class was not as highly rated. I remember Coach K being quoted as saying something nice about UNC's class, but adding that Duke's class was very good too.
UNC's class won a national title in 1993. Of course, our class won two titles.

[freedevil]

you guys need your heads examined if you're questioning duke's recruiting success/strategy/effort.

I respectfully, and completely, disagree.

[monkey]

I respectfully, and completely, disagree.

I agree with freedevil (in disagreeing). Duke has been recruiting well by most normal standards, but being out recruited over time does have an impact (on average). For a while in the late 90s and earlier part of this decade it seemed like we had the number 1 class, numebr 1 player and multiple top ten ranked recruited every other year or so. While we are still getting very high caliber players we have not been getting that class in the past few recruiting classes (including the immediate future ones it seems) - while Carolina appears to be reaching a similar level. That's not good if you are a Blue Devil fan, IMO.

[sandinmyshoes]

While always concerned about our chief rival getting so many highly rated players, I think we have to realize that the last four commits were spread over two classes. I think Coach K has plenty of time to bring together the '09 class, never mind the '10 class.

What I would really like, however, is for him to not leave so many scholarships unused. Recruit the best, and then bring on a couple of players who may not be as talented but play for Duke because they are fans of the program in addition to being basketball players. Players that have potential, but would also be happy to have their playing time earned gradually as they develop.

I think that way Duke would be at least a little less disrupted by injuries and early entry.

[SilkyJ]

And it pisses me off.

s.i.

word. can we please just go back to signing whoever we want. i liked it better that way.

seriously though. i dont know what the solution is, but i hate this crap. i hope being coach of team USA helps us out down the road cause we aren't reaping the rewards (from a recruiting perspective) yet and its probably hurting us a little that coach can't be pounding the pavement as much in the off-season...

[Uncle Drew]

word. can we please just go back to signing whoever we want. i liked it better that way.

seriously though. i dont know what the solution is, but i hate this crap. i hope being coach of team USA helps us out down the road cause we aren't reaping the rewards (from a recruiting perspective) yet and its probably hurting us a little that coach can't be pounding the pavement as much in the off-season...


What's the use in being the USA head basketball coach if you can't bring at least some of the players back with you and put them in a Duke uniform! We can get Lebron a tutor.....okay two tutors. And no one will pay any attention to Dwight Howard driving around campus in a Lamborghini. That's what all Duke students drive right?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I mostly agree with freedevil. Our recruiting has been slow to change with the times. For too long K relied on the pattern of getting one huge class, followed by 1-2 person classes. We simply can't "select" like we used to and K's "sniper approach" just doesn't cut it, especially with injuries, early entry, etc. The good news is that K seems to have (finally) changed his tune and the last two classes have been much more balanced. We also seem to be using all of our scholarships. This is about a decade too late, but at least it's happening. This year's "Monroe or nobody" is a legit cause for concern, but it can be addressed by next year's class. There is a reason people are concerned and it's Pollyannaish to reject it out of hand, but it's equally unrealistic to declare that our recruiting is "terrible," "we're doomed," "it's over," etc. K made some really bad mistakes but recent trends suggest that he's learned from them. The jury is still out.

I do want to add that a lot of the "slipping" is less about us doing badly and more about UNC stepping up. Roy is better than D'oh, so of course UNC is making up ground. In fact, UNC has had one of the best runs of any school in a long time. That stinks, but it's not an indictment of our recruiting.

Ugly results like the Handsblahblah/McSobberts outcome obscure the fact that both schools brought in top-ranked players. In fact, Josh was ranked more highly by most services. Their guy turned out amazingly and ours fizzled. Just like Ron Curry/JWill a few years ago, however, both schools were successful at recruiting, things just turned out better for one school.

Let's not let the great things UNC is doing detract from the great things we are doing. Hendo, Scheyer, Singler, and Elliot Williams are all big-time gets, and if we get E Murphy, Echenique, etc those will be as well. This is the rivalry as it was for the pre-D'oh years and as it will be for the foreseeable future. Get used to it.

[Uncle Drew]

I mostly agree with freedevil. Our recruiting has been slow to change with the times. For too long K relied on the pattern of getting one huge class, followed by 1-2 person classes. We simply can't "select" like we used to and K's "sniper approach" just doesn't cut it, especially with injuries, early entry, etc. The good news is that K seems to have (finally) changed his tune and the last two classes have been much more balanced. We also seem to be using all of our scholarships. This is about a decade too late, but at least it's happening. This year's "Monroe or nobody" is a legit cause for concern, but it can be addressed by next year's class. There is a reason people are concerned and it's Pollyannaish to reject it out of hand, but it's equally unrealistic to declare that our recruiting is "terrible," "we're doomed," "it's over," etc. K made some really bad mistakes but recent trends suggest that he's learned from them. The jury is still out.

I do want to add that a lot of the "slipping" is less about us doing badly and more about UNC stepping up. Roy is better than D'oh, so of course UNC is making up ground. In fact, UNC has had one of the best runs of any school in a long time. That stinks, but it's not an indictment of our recruiting.

Ugly results like the Handsblahblah/McSobberts outcome obscure the fact that both schools brought in top-ranked players. In fact, Josh was ranked more highly by most services. Their guy turned out amazingly and ours fizzled. Just like Ron Curry/JWill a few years ago, however, both schools were successful at recruiting, things just turned out better for one school.

Let's not let the great things UNC is doing detract from the great things we are doing. Hendo, Scheyer, Singler, and Elliot Williams are all big-time gets, and if we get E Murphy, Echenique, etc those will be as well. This is the rivalry as it was for the pre-D'oh years and as it will be for the foreseeable future. Get used to it.

As a sky is falling, what in God's name is happening, pessimistic kind of person. I have to admit the Patterson, Monroe then let's all go play at UNC events have had me vexed. But I must admit DCDFD makes some excellent points. Especially in his comparisons between Josh / Tyler and J-Will / Curry. Sometimes you hit 21, sometimes you bust and the recruiting war IS a gamble regardless of what rankings tell us. For all we know Patterson may get fed up with losing at UK and go pro and Monroe could be more injury prone in college than Grant Hill has been in the NBA.

That being said, if the events of the last two weeks don't set off an alarm for the Duke coaching staff that they need to step it up I don't know what will. It set off my spidey sense like a microwave sets off a pace maker. Say what you want, but somehow, some way the staff in Chapel Hell is out doing themselves. And it's either step up or step off.


One thing....are we in serious contetion for Echenique?

[uncwdevil]

As a sky is falling, what in God's name is happening, pessimistic kind of person. I have to admit the Patterson, Monroe then let's all go play at UNC events have had me vexed. But I must admit DCDFD makes some excellent points. Especially in his comparisons between Josh / Tyler and J-Will / Curry. Sometimes you hit 21, sometimes you bust and the recruiting war IS a gamble regardless of what rankings tell us. For all we know Patterson may get fed up with losing at UK and go pro and Monroe could be more injury prone in college than Grant Hill has been in the NBA.

That being said, if the events of the last two weeks don't set off an alarm for the Duke coaching staff that they need to step it up I don't know what will. It set off my spidey sense like a microwave sets off a pace maker. Say what you want, but somehow, some way the staff in Chapel Hell is out doing themselves. And it's either step up or step off.


One thing....are we in serious contetion for Echenique?

yeah, its my understanding that we are in serious contention, some would say the favorite at this point

[yancem]

Another thing to keep in mind is that a couple of years ago Duke signed 3 of the four Sophomores (Thomas, Zoubec and Henderson I think) in three successive days which turned a lot of heads. UNC then signed Lawson, Ellington Thompson and Stepheson. It doesn't really matter when you sign your recruits only that you do. So If Duke signs Boynton, Echenique, Painter and Murphy then all of the sudden Duke is looking pretty stacked. I guess though, we will have to wait while UNC enjoys.

[uncwdevil]

Another thing to keep in mind is that a couple of years ago Duke signed 3 of the four Sophomores (Thomas, Zoubec and Henderson I think) in three successive days which turned a lot of heads. UNC then signed Lawson, Ellington Thompson and Stepheson. It doesn't really matter when you sign your recruits only that you do. So If Duke signs Boynton, Echenique, Painter and Murphy then all of the sudden Duke is looking pretty stacked. I guess though, we will have to wait while UNC enjoys.

Scheyer, Henderson, and Zoubek committed in a 2-day span back in May of '05.

[sandinmyshoes]

If we sign Painter, you can expect to hear from the UNC fans about how Ed Davis destroyed him in a recent game. Believe me, because I already have. :rolleyes:

[yancem]

Scheyer, Henderson, and Zoubek committed in a 2-day span back in May of '05.

Thanks, I knew it was 3 of the four but couldn't remember which three.

[yancem]

If we sign Painter, you can expect to hear from the UNC fans about how Ed Davis destroyed him in a recent game. Believe me, because I already have. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but Davis senior and Painter is a junior which can be a pretty significant difference at that age. For what its worth, according to Rivals, Davis is ranked 20 in what many consider a weak class while Painter is ranked 22 in a stronger class. Probably not the best measuring stick but there it is. Also, I'll gladly take Painter regardless.

[Ignatius07]

Right - at the moment we can hardly be picky.

[Patrick Yates]

Last I heard, Duke was not leading for anybody. The Echenique kid may have us as co-leader, but that is purely speculation. I haven't seen any credible reports that list us as one of his leaders.

As for Murphy and Painter, I personally believe those are hard gets, and probably mutually exclusive, as they play very similiar games. Murphy's Dad played BB at Boston College, now a conference rival. I have seen reports that speculate that Florida is a favorite of his. Granted, FL has brought in a lot of posts in the 07 and 08 classes, but we are by no means the favorite. By that same token, Painter is a huge target for UVA, and after the Davis miss Leitao is going to be on that like white on rice.

As for Echenique, I think he is the type of player we need. But he is ranked in the 40-75 range by several services. There are several top kids that Duke is ignoring. The big post from GA, Favors, is a huge GT target, and if he can do it there academically, why not Duke?

And Boynton could go anywhere. Fl is hot on that. Duke will have Smith, Williams, Scheyer and Marty P at the guard when Boynton arrives on campus. That may or may not sway him. But, he could go anywhere. He could wait and choose a program that sees its guard rotation decimated by early entry or attrition. He will have every opportunity to play at a school with more available minutes and shots.

And I am tired of hearing about so called "Duke Guys" as though Duke never took any kids with questionable academics or connections. C-Well came from a rough neighborhood, and was certainly not a traditional "Duke Guy" and he turned out pretty well. Will Avery was from a bad situation as well, and had to go to Oak Hill to get his academics (and personal life) in order before Duke would offer him. He was a great player at Duke who left too early. And Maggette may have played at a top HS academically, but it was obvious to the basketball world that Myron Piggie was not a good guy. K didn't know how bad it was, but Piggie had to have raised some eyebrows with a guy as shrewed as K.

My main concern with recruiting is that we are not recruiting one and done level players. Monroe is the only one we recruited, and that recruitment never got off the ground. I wish that all players had to spend 4 years in college, but that will never happen. If a kid is good enough to go pro, he will at the first opportunity. If a recruit says otherwise, he is lying to himself and everyone. Now, some kids will only leave if they are a lottery pick, and others if they are first round material, but every kid who plays hoops at the college level wants to play for the NBA. If that happens sooner as later, so be it. If those are the type of players necessary to win National Titles, then lets load up on them.

Cause right now, there are maybe two early entry candidates on Duke's team. Hendo and Singler, and both of those guys need at LEAST 1 more year in college. Nolan is iffy, cause he has to learn the PG position having never really played the position before. Next year's team doesn't change that, cause Williams needs a few years before he will be on any NBA radars.

It is not that our recruiting is bad. Duke's recruiting is good. But it is no longer elite. I don't know why that has happened, but it has. Until our recruiting becomes elite again, our post season results will not be elite either.

Last year, I posted with my concerns about recruiting. Those posts were countered with a littany of posts telling me how stupid I would look once Monroe committed, even though I was "foolish" enough to dare to suggest he might go elsewhere. I am seeing the same posts now, only the names have changed. UNC has actual commits. We have guys that anonymous posters swear Duke will get, despite no proof of this, whatsoever. Well, I didn't buy it last year, and nothing has changed my mind.

And I find it hilarious that some posters are saying that you can only play 5 players at a time. Many of these same posters state that Duke's recruiting is fine, while refecting the notion that Duke has too many guards and wings and not enough Posts. How many guards and wings can you play and be successful? Seriously, I want to know.

Patrick Yates

[Jumbo]

I'm still waiting for your explanation about how Duke can't win "without a Williams/Boozer/Brand" type. Will that be coming before or after the 22nd century. On to your post (and it would be great if you actually responded to criticism, rather than purely repated the same stump speech, over and over.) :



As for Murphy and Painter, I personally believe those are hard gets, and probably mutually exclusive, as they play very similiar games. Murphy's Dad played BB at Boston College, now a conference rival.

Jeff Capel played at Duke, somehow that didn't keep his brother from going to that school's biggest rival. There are countless examples of kids ignoring family connections when choosing a college. To decide that Murphy will be swayed by the fact that his dad played at B.C. is silly.



As for Echenique, I think he is the type of player we need.

Agreed


But he is ranked in the 40-75 range by several services.
Haven't you said Duke should go after more kids in this range who they can develop? Plus, Echenique is only early in his junior season right now. Recruiting rankings can and will change a lot after the camp/AAU circuit this summer. Duke is very high on Echenique -- he'd be a great get.


There are several top kids that Duke is ignoring. The big post from GA, Favors, is a huge GT target, and if he can do it there academically, why not Duke?
I don't have an answer for you. But would you be willing to agree that Duke might have reasons for not recruiting certain kids that we'd never know or understand?


And I am tired of hearing about so called "Duke Guys" as though Duke never took any kids with questionable academics or connections. C-Well came from a rough neighborhood, and was certainly not a traditional "Duke Guy" and he turned out pretty well.
It's funny -- when I think of a "Duke Guy," C-Well is toward the top of my list. I agree that it doesn't matter where these kids live, they just need to display the talent to play at Duke, the qualities Coach K wants in a kid and the ability to handle Duke's academic load.


And Maggette may have played at a top HS academically, but it was obvious to the basketball world that Myron Piggie was not a good guy. K didn't know how bad it was, but Piggie had to have raised some eyebrows with a guy as shrewed as K.
That's some unfair speculation. A lot of people were duped by Piggie.


My main concern with recruiting is that we are not recruiting one and done level players.
Funny, that's one of my favorite decisions.


Monroe is the only one we recruited, and that recruitment never got off the ground.
What do you mean it "never got off the ground?" He picked another school. That happens.


If a kid is good enough to go pro, he will at the first opportunity. If a recruit says otherwise, he is lying to himself and everyone.
That's a bit of an overstatement, don't you think? Especially since you say...


Now, some kids will only leave if they are a lottery pick, and others if they are first round material, but every kid who plays hoops at the college level wants to play for the NBA.
No doubt.


If that happens sooner as later, so be it.
You can't dismiss that issue with a "so be it." Programs can get hit HARD by losing a one-and-done and especially by losing multiple one-and-dones. Look at what happened to Ohio State with Oden, Conley and Cook. I don't think Duke should NEVER bring in a one-and-done talent, but if the guy's obvious intention is to go pro after one year, I can live without him. I think it's different when you bring in a Deng, who had a reasonable chance of staying. It's tough to identify the right kids, though.


If those are the type of players necessary to win National Titles, then lets load up on them.

But they're not necessary to win a national title. Florida just won back-to-back titles with one McDonald's All-American. They beat the one-and-doners. UNC had Wright, Ellington and Lawson, and went down to Georgetown, whose point guard was originally headed to Princeton. Kevin Durant and Texas lost to USC. Spencer Hawes and Washington didn't even make the Tourney. Now, we don't have a long sample size to measure of the one-and-done era, but recent national champions still had plenty of veteran talent.


It is not that our recruiting is bad. Duke's recruiting is good. But it is no longer elite. I don't know why that has happened, but it has. Until our recruiting becomes elite again, our post season results will not be elite either.

Man, you're all over the place on Duke's chances this year. Prior to the Pitt game, weren't you saying this team had a really good chance to make the Final Four? And I don't understand how Henderson/Scheyer/Thomas/Zoubek and Singler/Smith/King aren't, at worst, "very, very good" classes, if not elite.


Last year, I posted with my concerns about recruiting. Those posts were countered with a littany of posts telling me how stupid I would look once Monroe committed, even though I was "foolish" enough to dare to suggest he might go elsewhere.

You mention this all the time, and it seems like a bit of a straw man. I don't remember anyone saying that you were foolish for suggesting Monroe might choose another school. You make it sound like you were persecuted for suggesting that was a possibility. Hogwash. The only way I can remember you being attacked has been for the tone of your posts and you apparent need to play the role of "realist," which easily morphs into "Chicken Little."


I am seeing the same posts now, only the names have changed. UNC has actual commits. We have guys that anonymous posters swear Duke will get, despite no proof of this, whatsoever. Well, I didn't buy it last year, and nothing has changed my mind.
Last I checked, Jim Sumner was not anonymous. He seems to have a first name (Jim) and a last name (Sumner). He seems to write articles that people read. He seems to be tapped into the program pretty well. And he's not guaranteeing anything. When he says Duke leads for Boynton, that doesn't mean the kid is a lock. It just means that things look good right now. You'll never have proof that a kid is coming until he signs his LOI. But there's nothing wrong with people like Jim sharing some info about the coaching staff's strategy/expectations. And while you're at it, enough with the whole "I use my real name, which means I tower over all the anonymous people" stuff. It means nothing. Just say what you have to say, and let your argument speak for you.

[SeattleIrish]

I was curious about the rankings (earlier I had posited that Duke would probably be in the top 3 for recruiting over the past 5 years, but that UNC would be #1) and wanted to see how the actual classes were ranked during that span.

I used the Scout site: http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=676729

I took the teams that seemed to me to be consistently at the top of the recruiting rankings: UNC, Florida, Duke, UCLA and Memphis.

This is what I found for 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004:

UNC: 9, <30, 1, 9, <30
UF: 5, 1, 20, <30, 12
Duke: 26, 8, 5, 2, 30
UCLA: 2, 11, <30, 18, 5
Mem: <30, 10, 23, 7, 9

If we take the average (Rivals only ranked the top 30, so if they were higher than 30. thus unranked, I gave them a 40 just as a guess), we get the following:

UNC: 19.8
Mem: 17.8
UF: 15.6
UCLA: 15.2
Duke: 14.2

Obviously, the rankings are like golf, you want the lowest score. I know the whole concept is flawed (it doesn't care about positions, it doesn't reflect how the recruits turned out, it doesn't reward consistentcy, etc...), but I was surprised to see that Duke has the "best" recruiting over the past five years, as measured by the rankings above.

Take it for what it's worth.

s.i.

p.s. - If nothing else, this should highlight that the sky ain't fallin'!

[Scorp4me]

So let's see. Doesn't that mean in the next few years we won't be fighting Carolina for any recruits. I know it rarely happens and it's great for them now, but what I mean to say is unless they start signing High School Freshman they won't have much to look forward to. And as for me I'd much rather evaluate, select, and then recruit kids once they have developed a little more. I got now problem with Duke's recruiting. I hate we're thin inside, but I remember when we recruited Andrea Buckner just to have a practice guard. It goes in cycles.

[sandinmyshoes]

Yeah, but Davis senior and Painter is a junior which can be a pretty significant difference at that age. For what its worth, according to Rivals, Davis is ranked 20 in what many consider a weak class while Painter is ranked 22 in a stronger class. Probably not the best measuring stick but there it is. Also, I'll gladly take Painter regardless.

Well, I just asked them if they had actually seen the game, and then pointed out that guard play could make the difference in how big men produce. I also suggested that this probably meant Davis was a one and done guy. :)

[yancem]

Well, I just asked them if they had actually seen the game, and then pointed out that guard play could make the difference in how big men produce. I also suggested that this probably meant Davis was a one and done guy. :)

Nice :)

[devildownunder]

What's the use in being the USA head basketball coach if you can't bring at least some of the players back with you and put them in a Duke uniform! We can get Lebron a tutor.....okay two tutors. And no one will pay any attention to Dwight Howard driving around campus in a Lamborghini. That's what all Duke students drive right?



that lebron is not intelligent, or less intelligent than most duke players? On what do you base this?

[whereinthehellami]

How come when it comes to recruiting some people act like know it alls. is it because they pay money to follow the lives of teenagers or just a personality issue? Some people are getting way to critical of the staff and its recruiting. The Duke staff does the best job they can do. Period. I don't see why some "fans" think that the Duke staff owes them anything. I'm just baffled at the attitudes of some of the self-proclaimed recruiting experts on message boards. Its great to have opinions but the holier-than-thou attitudes should be checked at the door.

[Carlos]

Last I heard, Duke was not leading for anybody. The Echenique kid may have us as co-leader, but that is purely speculation. I haven't seen any credible reports that list us as one of his leaders.

As for Murphy and Painter, I personally believe those are hard gets, and probably mutually exclusive, as they play very similiar games. Murphy's Dad played BB at Boston College, now a conference rival. I have seen reports that speculate that Florida is a favorite of his. Granted, FL has brought in a lot of posts in the 07 and 08 classes, but we are by no means the favorite. By that same token, Painter is a huge target for UVA, and after the Davis miss Leitao is going to be on that like white on rice.

snip

And Boynton could go anywhere. Fl is hot on that. Duke will have Smith, Williams, Scheyer and Marty P at the guard when Boynton arrives on campus. That may or may not sway him. But, he could go anywhere. He could wait and choose a program that sees its guard rotation decimated by early entry or attrition. He will have every opportunity to play at a school with more available minutes and shots.

Patrick - I think the one thing that you can take to the bank regarding any interview with a recruit and subsequent speculation about what school he favors is that it is pure garbage. Maybe the guy will slip up and say something of substance but most of the time it's like listening to Johnny Dawkins respond to callers on the post-game show... lots of words and little meaning.

So when you look for reports that list us as a leader, co-leader, or out of the hunt you're really not going to come up with anything of substance. The best read on the recruiting efforts for any team is information that doesn't come from a message board or from some premium content. Even then, the best read is really a crap read because in the end you're speculating about the decisions of a 17-year-old kid.... or if you were doing this a couple of years ago and wondering where Greg Oden would go, you'd be speculating about the decisions of a 35-year-old kid.

Now, with all that said, I think you're way off-base in your thoughts on where Duke stands with some of the guys they're after. If Murphy's father playing for a conference rival some 25 years ago is such an important factor in where he'll go to school then why would you think Florida is "the leader" for him? Is the conference factor the big difference there?

Everything I've heard in regard to Boynton is overwhelmingly positive for Duke - again, for whatever that means. We're supposedly in very good shape with Echenique as well and the other primary target in that class - Leslie McDonald - is a guy who Duke stopped recruiting after signing E. Williams this year but then got the word that he was still very interested in Duke. I call it a good sign when a guy asks you to continue recruiting him.


As for Echenique, I think he is the type of player we need. But he is ranked in the 40-75 range by several services. There are several top kids that Duke is ignoring. The big post from GA, Favors, is a huge GT target, and if he can do it there academically, why not Duke?

There are plenty of top kids that Duke is ignoring but there are other top kids that they're recruiting. I'm not sure where you're getting your rankings on Echenique, but the only ones that I've seen are Scout and Rivals and they have him at 37 and 45. That's a long way from 75. But pretend we weren't recruiting him and we were recruiting Favors. Wouldn't the complaint then be that we were going after a kid who GaTech is all over "like white on rice" much like Painter?


My main concern with recruiting is that we are not recruiting one and done level players.

In the last class we recruited Greg Monroe who, as you acknowledged is a likely one and done guy. He's probably the only one of those in the class. In the previous year we went after Kevin Love and Eric Gordon. The other potential one and done's in that class are OJ Mayo, Michael Beasley, and Derrick Rose and I think it's pretty apparent why Duke steered clear of each of those guys. In the previous class we recruited Brandan Wright who was a one and done. We also looked at Thaddeus Young as well. Given that Duke typically doesn't go after a great number of players in each class - and that's the one area where I do think the recruiting philosophy needs to change - it's hard to say that they're not recruiting enough one and done guys.

[Uncle Drew]

that lebron is not intelligent, or less intelligent than most duke players? On what do you base this?

It called humor, geeze. Lebron may be freakin' Einstein and he might have the IQ of a ferret, none of which matters because he like Howard ARE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR COLLEGE PLAY. Man some people read into things a little too much. I guess it's my fault for not putting jk, lol or whatever. I will say this, having been fairly sure he was headed to the NBA since he was a soph. in high school I doubt he worked as hard in class as he did on the court. (That could also be said for a lot of high school stars college bound or not.) So prepared for college at any school is up to debate. But he's making more in a year than most of us on this board will make in our life times so who cares.

[Patrick Yates]

I am sorry that so many of you get riled up by this. I am just going by what I am seeing on court. We are weak inside. We were weak before the injury/illness hit. It is obvious to every one.

It is not going to change next year. There is no help comming in the post. Many people said that Lance or Zoubs would make huge strides over the summer. Didn't happen. Yes, Zoubs was hurt, but, as it was pointed out to me, he was healthy when practice started. Didn't help.

Looking at the games, we have huge stretches when we cannot score. There is no post presence to go to for easy shots. Several post player have looked all world against us, despite the fact that their talent is no where near all world. Looking forward, it is hard not to be alarmed considering that we are about to face some posts who DO have all world talent. Our biggest rival is lining up posts while we evaluate and hope. Other top tier teams have posts lined up, and we don't.

No one likes one and dones. But, if the choice is to take one and dones and compete for NC, or don't and don't, which would you all rather do?

And the Florida comment is a straw one as well. Yes, none of them were McD's AAs. But, several of you counter that our recruiting is fine because of all the McD AAs we have. Which is it?

Also, forgive me for not singling out the guy who compared Scheyer to Hondo. Come on. Hondo in his prime would have been the top 5 scoring options for Duke if he were on this year's team. Scheyer's name should not be mentioned in the same paragaraph as Hondo.

And Jumbo, I did not respond to the Williams, Boozer thread for a simple reason. It is a tactic that several mods take advantage of. I got banned for making a joke about Lute's divorce. It was a joke very similiar to the one often repeated about Gary Williams, but it is OK to go after him apparantly.

I have noticed that when people post contrary opinions, and subsequently get banned, certain individuals take that opportunity to call out the banned poster, who of course cannot respond. By the time their suspension is lifted, the original post has moved down the board, or it has been closed by the mods to prevent any sort of come back.

That is a truly courageous practice. I applaud your Gallic Bravery.

Patrick Yates

[CMS2478]

I am NOT doubting Coach K, so don't take it as such. But do any of you think that if he went at the recruiting a little harder himself we might do better. It seems he lets Collins, Wojo, and Dawkins handle most of it and I just wonder if his presence, phonecall, visit, etc. might make a difference if he did these things more often instead of leaving it up to the assistants. Just curious.......not knocking Coach K. :)

[Jumbo]

And Jumbo, I did not respond to the Williams, Boozer thread for a simple reason. It is a tactic that several mods take advantage of. I got banned for making a joke about Lute's divorce. It was a joke very similiar to the one often repeated about Gary Williams, but it is OK to go after him apparantly.

I have noticed that when people post contrary opinions, and subsequently get banned, certain individuals take that opportunity to call out the banned poster, who of course cannot respond. By the time their suspension is lifted, the original post has moved down the board, or it has been closed by the mods to prevent any sort of come back.

What? What does Lute Olson have to do with any of this? You were not banned when I asked you (multiple times) to back up your assertion that Duke can't win without a "Brand/Williams/Boozer" type. My biggest problem with your posting style is that you don't debate in good faith. You make posts filled wth grand pronouncements, and when someone calls you on an inaccuracy, you don't respond. You don't back up your bluster. It's really, really frustrating.

There are no tactics involved. I want you to be a productive member of the board. But you seem intent on stirring the pot and then playing the victim when multiple mods discipline you. (And if you think all mods think alike, you're nuts.)

If you hate the way this site operates so much, why do you post here? If you realize a post might make you sound like a "bad person" as you acknowledged in the Lute thread, why write it? And if you do like it here, why don't you bend a little bit and try to adapt to the community a bit more? I don't think we're asking too much of you.


That is a truly courageous practice. I applaud your Gallic Bravery.

See, stuff like that is what gets you in trouble. Not only is it untrue, it's purely an attempt to irritate people. In the end, how is that different from trolling?

[acciconoclast]

Looks like a wall refused to commit to Ol' Roy :) His players will likely rag him good over this

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=williams_seeks_medical_attention_f or_cut&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

[ThatDukeFan1]

you know the way i see it..... let carolina have all the 1-and-done freshman. if they want all the big-time blue chip freshman that stay for 1 year, then thats good for them

but freshmen WILL NOT win championships. you need experience for those matters, so don't worry.

[sandinmyshoes]

I don't think UNC is recruiting just one and done players. And UNC also showed that you can win it all with a one and done guy playing significant minutes, with Marvin Williams in 2005.

I think most of the elite programs are now trying to find that magical blend of one and done talent mixed in with three and four year players.

[devildownunder]

It called humor, geeze. Lebron may be freakin' Einstein and he might have the IQ of a ferret, none of which matters because he like Howard ARE NO LONGER ELIGIBLE FOR COLLEGE PLAY. Man some people read into things a little too much. I guess it's my fault for not putting jk, lol or whatever. I will say this, having been fairly sure he was headed to the NBA since he was a soph. in high school I doubt he worked as hard in class as he did on the court. (That could also be said for a lot of high school stars college bound or not.) So prepared for college at any school is up to debate. But he's making more in a year than most of us on this board will make in our life times so who cares.


I would call it an attempt at humor, but that's just me. I asked only because I think lebron has a bit more going on upstairs than most prodigious basketball talents, so thought it was a little silly to single him out for the "dumb athlete" joke. That's all.

[dukie8]

you know the way i see it..... let carolina have all the 1-and-done freshman. if they want all the big-time blue chip freshman that stay for 1 year, then thats good for them

but freshmen WILL NOT win championships. you need experience for those matters, so don't worry.

i'm glad you weren't coaching syracuse in 2003.