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Uncle Drew
01-07-2008, 07:28 AM
After being very ill for over a week and taking care of my wife who has also been ill. I stopped by DBR to check all the postings, especially after last nights Duke game and UNC's game against Clemson. After adding 2 and 2 and 2 together I have come to figure out something about those of us who call ourselves Duke fans. As near as I can tell there are 3 types of Duke fans.

1.Students / alums.
2. Fans that want Duke to succeed above all else
3.Duke fans who want UNC to fail more than anything else.

This was very apparent in the UNC recruiting post that got closed. Slightly apparent in the Duke game thread from last night. And very apparent again in the Clemson Has A Chance thread.

The way I see it a person attending Duke or that graduated from there has the school spirit, proud alum rah, rah thing going. Duke IS such a great school that optimism about all aspects of Duke are going to shine through 99 times out of 100. The second category is a little skewed because if Duke succeeds, ultimately UNC is going to fail. (There are no co-national champions....at least in basketball!) But many people that fall into this second category want Duke teams to do their best and pay little or no attention to what any other schools accomplish.

Then you have the ABC crowd. Some are converted NCSU fans (and other former fans) that hate UNC. Some are Duke fans from childhood that remember when UNC owned college basketball in NC. Some are just people who want to hurl every time they hear a UNC fan / alum spew light blue garbage from their mouth, tee shirt and car bumper. Granted we all want to beat UNC more than any team each year in every sport. But some of us view the whole thing as a good vs. evil, force vs. dark force, JR Ewing vs Bobby Ewing thing. I think that's really important to look at when a fan is stating / posting their opinion. 99.9% of fans in the country would be satisfied with the season Duke is having, the last ten seasons they have had and most of all the prospects for the next four years. I can Guarantee UCLA fans don't stress over UNC getting three recruits in the boat. And aside from true Duke haters out there most will only see the score of last nights Duke game and see who won.

It's really not fair to the players, staff and prospects for some of us ABCers (Yes I'm one of the third type.) to have the mindset we do. Heck it's not even fair to all of us Duke fans in general when some of us think we have to live up and surpass what they do in Chapel Hill. (There are a ton of UNC and MD fans who think the same way about Duke.) But the rivalry is older than anyone reading this and it runs deeper than the number of miles between the two campuses. Any kid inking with either school should know a spotlight is going to be on them not just from their fans but the fans of their arch enemy. I really didn't agree with the UNC Recruit post being closed, but I understand why. Under 99 spotlights the past and future gleam bright for Duke University (From last nights game it's apparent Duke needs some more Rhodes Scholars and Nobel prize winners!) and Duke athletics. But to those of us looking at things from under that one ugly spotlight in a light blue shade we want more even though we should be happy with what we have.

JasonEvans
01-07-2008, 09:03 AM
People in group #3 are not Duke fans. No offense to those of you who fall into that group, but I don't even begin to consider you Duke fans. Being against one thing does not automatically make you "for" something else. There is more to being a fan of a team than hating its rival.

Heck, as most of you know, I have a great deal of admiration and respect for what Dean and Roy have done at Carolina. One reason Duke is Duke is because Carolina is Carolina. Our close proximity (both physically and emotionally) drives each of us to be the best in the rivalry and, because we are both so good, the best in the sport. Trust me, Duke is a better basketball program because of our rivalry with Carolina.

People who just root for Carolina to lose sorta disgust me.

--Jason "rooting for Duke should be a positive thing" Evans

feldspar
01-07-2008, 09:13 AM
People in group #3 are not Duke fans. No offense to those of you who fall into that group, but I don't even begin to consider you Duke fans. Being against one thing does not automatically make you "for" something else. There is more to being a fan of a team than hating its rival.

Heck, as most of you know, I have a great deal of admiration and respect for what Dean and Roy have done at Carolina. One reason Duke is Duke is because Carolina is Carolina. Our close proximity (both physically and emotionally) drives each of us to be the best in the rivalry and, because we are both so good, the best in the sport. Trust me, Duke is a better basketball program because of our rivalry with Carolina.

People who just root for Carolina to lose sorta disgust me.

--Jason "rooting for Duke should be a positive thing" Evans

Man, I wish I had been on last night 'cause I coulda predicted this post coming.

Bluedog
01-07-2008, 09:21 AM
(From last nights game it's apparent Duke needs some more Rhodes Scholars and Nobel prize winners!)

Really? We have 41 Rhodes Scholars to Cornell's 21, IIRC. Duke is 5th in the nation among private schools (Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Stanford are the only ones with more). That's pretty impressive if you ask me.....Nobel prize winners, yeah, agree with that. Stat showed only 4 to Cornell's 40....

Getting back to the topic on hand, can't somebody be a member of more than one group? I suppose 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive since you said "above all else," but I certainly feel that I am part of all three groups. I'm a Duke alum and want Duke to succeed above all else - I also hate Carolina and want them to lose. Of course, my #1 priority is our success, but after the Cornell game, when my focus was on Clemson-UNC, I wanted UNC to lose above all else since we were no longer playing....I don't see what's wrong with that. I certainly respect UNC, appreciate the rivalry, and understand that Duke and the rivalry wouldn't be so great if it wasn't for UNC's successes....but that doesn't mean I want UNC to win anything. There is a point of obsession of wanting UNC to lose that perhaps crosses a boundary - but I certainly think I'm a member of all three types of Duke fans.

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I have a great deal of admiration and respect for what Dean and Roy have done at Carolina. One reason Duke is Duke is because Carolina is Carolina. Our close proximity (both physically and emotionally) drives each of us to be the best in the rivalry and, because we are both so good, the best in the sport. Trust me, Duke is a better basketball program because of our rivalry with Carolina.

--Jason "rooting for Duke should be a positive thing" Evans


Yes, but there is nothing in your statement that contradicts with my rooting for them to lose. I admire what they have done. I respect them. I recognize they are a great program. But will I ever root for them? No.

Lavabe
01-07-2008, 09:30 AM
Umm, I'm 1, 2, and 3. I don't see that the categories are mutually exclusive. Also consider that a number of folks post on the snrubchat, rather than the thread.

As for rooting for Clemson, there's a part of me that wants DBR lore to come to life. I realize that Klemnop won't go streaking down CHapel Hill for a win at Littlejohn, but I am DEFINITELY rooting for Klemnop against UNC. There's always that possibility!

Why root against UNC? Well besides the obvious (they're UNC, 9F), EVERY loss they get is important for Duke. If Duke wins a lot this year, I'd much rather they have fewer losses than UNC. If Duke comes in second by one loss, I'm going to be annoyed that C-L-E-M-S-O----N didn't win last night. I'm for anything that keeps the tacky blues from hanging another tacky blue ACC REGULAR SEASON CHAMPIONS banner. Whoops ... they've now made it into one banner.

I also loathe Clever Hans; it's not yet reached Chris Paul levels, but it's getting there. But I am tired of the announcers shouting PSYCHO T!

Finally, I can't stand the ram hats. It's sort of like my dislike for the Wake tie-dyed shirts and wigs.

Cheers,
Lavabe

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Finally, I can't stand the ram hats. Cheers,
Lavabe

Which brings up another point - if they are the tar heels why is their mascot a ram? Any school that can't make up its mind about its identity should lose every game. I hereby suggest that until they have someone dressed up in a giant foot costume as their mascot no one should ever root for them again!

Lavabe
01-07-2008, 09:49 AM
Which brings up another point - if they are the tar heels why is their mascot a ram? Any school that can't make up its mind about its identity should lose every game. I hereby suggest that until they have someone dressed up in a giant foot costume as their mascot no one should ever root for them again!

Sort of like the HILLTOPPER mascot, eh?

OKAY... now someone PLEASE answer this question.

The alma mater (the music) of Cornell, UNC, and Emory are one and the same. Whose came first?

Thanks,
Lavabe

JasonEvans
01-07-2008, 09:53 AM
Yes, but there is nothing in your statement that contradicts with my rooting for them to lose. I admire what they have done. I respect them. I recognize they are a great program. But will I ever root for them? No.

Yup, root for them to lose all you want. Heck, even I (the most noted Carolina sympathizer in these here parts) root for them to lose when I am watching one of their games. I rationally think their victories are mostly good for Duke (though I rationally want them to lose enough to give Duke the ACC title) but I emotionally want them to lose.

But, I refer you back to the definition of a certain type of Duke fan that started this discussion:


Duke fans who want UNC to fail more than anything else.

I say people who are more focussed on Carolina's failure than in Duke's success are not really Duke fans. They are anti-Carolina fans who fuel their ABC feeling by rooting for the school that is Carolina's biggest rival.

For example, I imagine there are some people who would not really mind if Duke went 3-27 one season so long as those 3 victories were over UNC and Carolina went 0-30 that same year. Taken to a less ridiculous extreme, there are people who would not mind Duke finishing 5th or 6th in the ACC if Carolina finished lower than us and we beat them when we played them.

I say a person like that is not a Duke fan. Though that is just my opinion.

--Jason "Feldy, I almost didn't post in this thread because my response was so predictable... but I could not resist ;) " Evans

dukeENG2003
01-07-2008, 10:01 AM
agreed, we should be, above all else, Duke fans more than anti-UNC fans.

I don't think that these categories are mutually exclusive though. I fall into all 3 categories. I'm an alum, I want to see Duke succeed above all else, and I want to see UNC fail above all else other than Duke succeeding.

For example, I ALWAYS root for the ACC to go 10-1 in the big 10 acc "challenge" every year. I can root for other teams in the ACC to succeed, b/c it helps Duke. Rooting for UNC though, even if it helps Duke indirectly, I cannot do.

Sure, I respect what Roy and Dean have done, and I'll agree that UNC's success has helped push us, but there is PLENTY to dislike about UNC. I don't think its necessary to go over all the reasons why, we all know them, and they have been rehashed many times here.

wilson
01-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Sort of like the HILLTOPPER mascot, eh?

OKAY... now someone PLEASE answer this question.

The alma mater (the music) of Cornell, UNC, and Emory are one and the same. Whose came first?

Thanks,
Lavabe

FWIW, it's also the finale of the talent show in Dirty Dancing and the alma mater of my high school. North Atlanta High School was chartered in 1992, and DD was made sometime in the '80s, so I'm pretty sure neither of those came first. But when the Emory carillon plays the alma mater at noon every day, I definitely always chuckle to myself about all of the above.

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 10:12 AM
Yup, root for them to lose all you want. Heck, even I (the most noted Carolina sympathizer in these here parts) root for them to lose when I am watching one of their games. I rationally think their victories are mostly good for Duke (though I rationally want them to lose enough to give Duke the ACC title) but I emotionally want them to lose.

But, I refer you back to the definition of a certain type of Duke fan that started this discussion:



I say people who are more focussed on Carolina's failure than in Duke's success are not really Duke fans. They are anti-Carolina fans who fuel their ABC feeling by rooting for the school that is Carolina's biggest rival.

For example, I imagine there are some people who would not really mind if Duke went 3-27 one season so long as those 3 victories were over UNC and Carolina went 0-30 that same year. Taken to a less ridiculous extreme, there are people who would not mind Duke finishing 5th or 6th in the ACC if Carolina finished lower than us and we beat them when we played them.

I say a person like that is not a Duke fan. Though that is just my opinion.

--Jason "Feldy, I almost didn't post in this thread because my response was so predictable... but I could not resist ;) " Evans

I agree. Your desire for UNC to lose should be a little less than your desire for Duke to win. That is the proper order of things.

feldspar
01-07-2008, 10:13 AM
I say people who are more focussed on Carolina's failure than in Duke's success are not really Duke fans. They are anti-Carolina fans who fuel their ABC feeling by rooting for the school that is Carolina's biggest rival.

For example, I imagine there are some people who would not really mind if Duke went 3-27 one season so long as those 3 victories were over UNC and Carolina went 0-30 that same year. Taken to a less ridiculous extreme, there are people who would not mind Duke finishing 5th or 6th in the ACC if Carolina finished lower than us and we beat them when we played them.

I say a person like that is not a Duke fan. Though that is just my opinion.

I understand and agree with this point, I just don't think there are actually that many of these types of fans out there. At least not enough to get worked up about.


--Jason "Feldy, I almost didn't post in this thread because my response was so predictable... but I could not resist ;) " Evans
:D

Jason's perpetual sig could be Jason "Rooting for Carolina to go 30-3 every year" Evans ;)

wilson
01-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Also, I am a Duke fan above all else. If Duke wins, I'm happy. But the #2 thing that I am with regard to college athletics is a not-kuralonna fan. If they lose, it makes me happy. Not as happy as when Duke wins, but I definitely actively root against them in every game they play in every sport. I'm with everyone on the "respect them, etc." thing, but I simply can not root for them.
I don't go in for the whole "root for the ACC" thing either. When kuralonna folded against Georgetown last March, it made my day.

feldspar
01-07-2008, 10:45 AM
It's like I told my wife last night while watching the UNC-Clemson game. She was surprised that I was rooting just as hard for UNC to lose as I do for Duke to win. I was just as intense, screaming just as loud at the TV, and just as disappointed at the result.

I looked over her and just said, "I admit that it's not rational, my desire to see UNC fail at all things. But sports rivalries aren't supposed to be rational."

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-07-2008, 11:07 AM
Somehow the conversations about types of fans and the games last night remind me of conversations about political candidates these days.... similar elements. Somewhere in all the analysis and scrutiny the joy and excitement of college sports in the truest sense seems lost. I'll try to remember that when I watch LSU and Ohio State this evening!

wilko
01-07-2008, 11:22 AM
Also, I am a Duke fan above all else. If Duke wins, I'm happy. But the #2 thing that I am with regard to college athletics is a not-kuralonna fan. If they lose, it makes me happy.

Amen.
Duke 1st, punching UNC in the teeth (metaphorically) 2nd, watching someone else punch UNC in the teeth 3rd...

NO sympathy for UNC unitl we get the all time win record swung in our favor by 20 or 70 games..




What pisses me off most about last nites game is that UNC made me watch.. baiting me with the prospect of a loss hooking me in and keeping me interested right up unitl those miserable SOB's pulled it out and won. IF they were going to win I wish they would have blown them out so I wouldnt have wasted my time.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-07-2008, 11:43 AM
I think it's hard to overstate the effect of living/working in the "tar heel" state. As a lifelong Duke fan who grew up in NC, every day of college basketball season meant being surrounded by and taunted (or worse) by disgusting UNC-ers. Even growing up in Durham I was generally outnumbered by light-blue boosters and could expect the majority viewpoint to be "^$%^$%^$%^$% sux" "K is evil" "Dean freed the slaves" etc.

From a rational standpoint, Duke winning is far and away the most important thing. Duke #1, UNC #2 is absolutely acceptable. From a quality of life/shutting up those who yap incessantly standpoint, a UNC loss is hard to top. Duke #1 UNC 0-fer is immeasurably better.

EarlJam
01-07-2008, 11:43 AM
If they (unc) lose, it makes me happy. Not as happy as when Duke wins, but I definitely actively root against them in every game they play in every sport.

Is this always the case? Not sure about me. Honestly, I'm just not sure. For example, I might be happier to see unc lose in the NCAAs in March than I would be over a Duke win against Pepperdine in November.

What if Gern, the basketball god, came to EarlJam in October with the following proposal:

"EarlJam, I will make unc lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament in March to Gaylord State, but it will cost Duke a loss to Pepperdine in November."

With a modicum of shame, I must confess I might....MIGHT....pull the trigger on said deal, as long as the Pepperdine loss didn't result in Duke getting frummle-caked in the March seedings.

Does this make me, EarlJam, a cheap, back-stabbing, son of a beekle-koch? I don't know. But I have to admit I'd ponder the proposal.

-EarlJam

EarlJam
01-07-2008, 11:45 AM
What pisses me off most about last nites game is that UNC made me watch.. baiting me with the prospect of a loss hooking me in and keeping me interested right up unitl those miserable SOB's pulled it out and won.


It's part of the UNC brand. They've been pulling that little irritating stunt for decades.

-EarlJam

Uncle Drew
01-07-2008, 11:47 AM
Somehow the conversations about types of fans and the games last night remind me of conversations about political candidates these days.... similar elements. Somewhere in all the analysis and scrutiny the joy and excitement of college sports in the truest sense seems lost. I'll try to remember that when I watch LSU and Ohio State this evening!

DITBD, hit it on the money. Though she may not have even intended to. Jason can call me or any ABCer NOT a true Duke fan. It bothers me not. Just as some would say any TRUE Duke fan would never pull for UNC in non ACC games particularly in the NCAA's. But many do.

DITBD is sooo right when she compares it to politics and that was what my whole point was about. It's all relavite to perspective and a lot of people haven't figured it out yet. The Clinton camp wasn't happy after Iowa, but their next game in New Hampshire the Obama team may lose in a blow out. If candidate A is someone you think would do the country more harm than good and you think candidate B is going to do their best to help the country you pull for A and against B. At the same time another contingent may think B is the best and A is an idiot.

I was simply admitting to myself and anyone who chose to read that I (we) should enjoy the victories Duke gets more than we do. And most any other school that has achieved what Duke has would. But we are in the unfortunate situation of looking a couple miles west. Both schools and fans are playing a game of keeping up with the Joneses and taking very little time to stop and smell the roses of their sucess. I guess the problem is given proxemity and familiarity, ones success often is cause / effect of the others failure. It's no different that the Cowboys competing against the Redskins to be top dog, or Yankees trying to keep the Red Sox down. I guess their hatred for one another means they aren't true fans either.


Finally I have always and still think the success of either school or magic of the rivalry is contingent on both teams success. While they go head to head against each other in recruiting, it's a simple fact the more they win the harder it is for Duke to recruit and visa versa. Given the fact that in recruiting Duke can knock 40-50 potential players off their wish list due to academics alone. That in itself gives UNC an edge (that I never want Duke to lower their standards to attain) and a larger pool to sellect from. Everything is stacked against Duke and yet they have competed very, very well over the last 25 years.

Yes people can be one of two or even three categories. But I dare say most fall mainly into one. And yes we can't help respect UNC, their program is crammed down our throats and flaunted in our faces. I think it's the attitude they always have been the best, are the best and always will be the best that makes ABCers want them taken down several notches.

Uncle Drew
01-07-2008, 11:54 AM
Which brings up another point - if they are the tar heels why is their mascot a ram? Any school that can't make up its mind about its identity should lose every game. I hereby suggest that until they have someone dressed up in a giant foot costume as their mascot no one should ever root for them again!

They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!

EarlJam
01-07-2008, 12:03 PM
They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!

The White Phantoms? What the Hades is that? Sounds like a second cousin of the KKK. Either way, everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!

Uncle Drew
01-07-2008, 12:11 PM
The White Phantoms? What the Hades is that? Sounds like a second cousin of the KKK. Either way, everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!

Amen Earl, from that disgusting color (I guess pink and lavender were already taken.) to having a farm animal for a mascot. (Oh sure tell me it's a long horn ram, yada, yada, yada.)

As for your deal with the devil to allow Duke to lose early season so UNC would lose in the first round of the NCAA's (Or not make it at all.) Well, let's just say Duke wouldn't make it out of December undefeated for the next 20 years. But then I'm not a true Duke fan.:rolleyes:

How about same deal for UNC but Duke loses 3 baseball games in a row. Or they lose two track and field matches in a row?

My dad used to say he aught to bet $100 on UNC every game they played. If they won, he'd get money. And if UNC lost it was money well spent.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-07-2008, 12:20 PM
DITBD, hit it on the money. Though she may not have even intended to. Jason can call me or any ABCer NOT a true Duke fan. It bothers me not. Just as some would say any TRUE Duke fan would never pull for UNC in non ACC games particularly in the NCAA's. But many do.

DITBD is sooo right when she compares it to politics and that was what my whole point was about. It's all relavite to perspective and a lot of people haven't figured it out yet. The Clinton camp wasn't happy after Iowa, but their next game in New Hampshire the Obama team may lose in a blow out. If candidate A is someone you think would do the country more harm than good and you think candidate B is going to do their best to help the country you pull for A and against B. At the same time another contingent may think B is the best and A is an idiot.

I was simply admitting to myself and anyone who chose to read that I (we) should enjoy the victories Duke gets more than we do. And most any other school that has achieved what Duke has would. But we are in the unfortunate situation of looking a couple miles west. Both schools and fans are playing a game of keeping up with the Joneses and taking very little time to stop and smell the roses of their sucess. I guess the problem is given proxemity and familiarity, ones success often is cause / effect of the others failure. It's no different that the Cowboys competing against the Redskins to be top dog, or Yankees trying to keep the Red Sox down. I guess their hatred for one another means they aren't true fans either.


Finally I have always and still think the success of either school or magic of the rivalry is contingent on both teams success. While they go head to head against each other in recruiting, it's a simple fact the more they win the harder it is for Duke to recruit and visa versa. Given the fact that in recruiting Duke can knock 40-50 potential players off their wish list due to academics alone. That in itself gives UNC an edge (that I never want Duke to lower their standards to attain) and a larger pool to sellect from. Everything is stacked against Duke and yet they have competed very, very well over the last 25 years.

Yes people can be one of two or even three categories. But I dare say most fall mainly into one. And yes we can't help respect UNC, their program is crammed down our throats and flaunted in our faces. I think it's the attitude they always have been the best, are the best and always will be the best that makes ABCers want them taken down several notches.

I guess a Duke education is worth something after all.....

As for being surrounded by aggressive Carolina fans, I can match anyone's story including seeing amazingly high positive correlations between such affiliations and hiring and promotions in various venues. I would say that the worst offenders often seem to be those who never stepped on the Carolina campus to enroll for any classes.

I would also observe that Carolina and some other "rabid" institutions have done a much better job in embracing their colors, mascots, traditions, etc. and in marketing their schools, their programs and their traditions over the years. It's always amazed me that the use of school colors and other such devices to encourage what used to be called "school spirit" (an old term for creating loyalty) has lagged at Duke. It took years before the football stadium had any blue in it, royal or navy. In what used to be Indoor Stadium, blue was added only as a part of the last renovation. Even the chairs for the trustees to use during their meetings were black leather the last time I saw them. I don't think this is part of the difference between public and private institutions. I suspect that it's part of the premise that such matters are beneath Duke's self image as a stellar university.

If you're a Duke fan, what do you do for Duke?

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 12:22 PM
everything "mascot, colors, etc." about UNC sucks eggs.

In fact, why don't they just change their mascot to an egg? Beware The Flaming Blue Eggs of UNC!

Pastel blue uniforms with carolina printed across the butt.
Argyle side panels.
Designed by a fashion designer.

My son and I refer to the team as "the boys in pastel".

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 12:23 PM
"I admit that it's not rational, my desire to see UNC fail at all things. But sports rivalries aren't supposed to be rational."

AMEN!

wilko
01-07-2008, 12:36 PM
It's part of the UNC brand. They've been pulling that little irritating stunt for decades.

-EarlJam

And thats EXACTLY why it tastes so $^%* good to watch them crumble.

Jumbo
01-07-2008, 12:52 PM
After being very ill for over a week and taking care of my wife who has also been ill. I stopped by DBR to check all the postings, especially after last nights Duke game and UNC's game against Clemson. After adding 2 and 2 and 2 together I have come to figure out something about those of us who call ourselves Duke fans. As near as I can tell there are 3 types of Duke fans.

1.Students / alums.
2. Fans that want Duke to succeed above all else
3.Duke fans who want UNC to fail more than anything else.


The way I see it a person attending Duke or that graduated from there has the school spirit, proud alum rah, rah thing going. Duke IS such a great school that optimism about all aspects of Duke are going to shine through 99 times out of 100. The second category is a little skewed because if Duke succeeds, ultimately UNC is going to fail. (There are no co-national champions....at least in basketball!) But many people that fall into this second category want Duke teams to do their best and pay little or no attention to what any other schools accomplish.

I don't like this at all. It's possible to be a Duke student/alum/faculty member and still also fall in either of the other categories. And I hate the way you categorize "Group 2" -- many people have the exact same school spirit as "Group 1," have family or other ties to the university, and is quite optimistic. And to decide that they "ant Duke teams to do their best and pay little or no attention to what any other schools accomplish" is ridiculous -- why on Earth would someone not care about the rest of the college basketball world, simply because they didn't go to Duke? If anything, I'd guess that there are more fans who only care about Duke among current students; that Duke basketball attracts some kids who ordinarily wouldn't follow college hoops. If you're going to pick up Duke basketball as a hobby and you didn't go there, chances are you love college hoops in general.

dball
01-07-2008, 01:32 PM
They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!


uncch was known as the White Phantoms until just a couple of years before joining the ACC (used as late as 1950). I could be mistaken but I believe the football team was referred to as the Rams for quite some time prior to that.

EarlJam
01-07-2008, 01:38 PM
uncch was known as the White Phantoms until just a couple of years before joining the ACC (used as late as 1950). I could be mistaken but I believe the football team was referred to as the Rams for quite some time prior to that.

I, EarlJam, have often referred to sports teams, namely the basketball team, from UNC through multiple monikers:

G-- D(*& M@#$#@ ers!!

Sons of B45u0g3=es!

Bunch of $%@#$^@!

Stinky heads

Collective group of human beings with gold-plated horse shoes located up their rectums

Nappy Headed Holes

B@$@#$ds! (just last night, in fact)

--------

To name a few.

-EarlJam

johnb
01-07-2008, 02:20 PM
I root for whatever circumstance is good for Duke. That rule means that I would generally like Duke to win the NC by beating UNC in the FF--that circumstance would not only give Duke the championship but would enhance the overall allure of the rivalry, region, etc. In my fantasy scenario, I would like UNC to have an occasional losing season (which would interrupt their string of records) but I don't have overall hatred for them. Frankly, many of their players would have done just fine at Duke, considered playing for us, and are friends with some of our guys. And we have certainly had players who I'd have traded for some of theirs (not because of talent but from what I could tell of their personalities).

I detest some coaches but not Dean: his perspectives on race and politics are admirable to me even if he was the face of the team that I felt most competitive with.

Of course, one of the reasons that we are most competitive with Carolina is that the boys in pastel are probably the most similar team to Duke. To extend the game of conjecture, which other team is more similar in terms of being packed with academically competent McD's A-A's? They seem much more like us than Stanford, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wake, or any other state school.

Oh, and I agree with Jumbo: the divisions don't work if school attendance is the key variable.

allenmurray
01-07-2008, 02:26 PM
I would generally like Duke to win the NC by beating UNC in the FF--that circumstance would not only give Duke the championship but would enhance the overall allure of the rivalry, region, etc.

I like the scenario, but I also recognize that I would have to have a fully equipped operating room staffed by a cardiologist, in my house during the game. Given that I can not afford that, the thought of them meeting in the National Championship game scares me and my family greatly. They don't make blood pressure medicine in a high enough dosage for allenmurray to survive that game.

ThatDukeFan1
01-07-2008, 02:41 PM
there's actually many different types of duke fans, IMO. i mean a person can be a student / alumni, and still want duke to exceed expectations, and they want to see carolina fail. you can't really seperate all of that into catergories, because some people fit into 1 or more of them.

i wouldn't say there's "different" kinds of duke fans, there's just duke fans, and there's bandwagoners. and it's actually quite easy to pick them apart after reading some of the posts.

if i had to "catergorize" duke fans, it'd look something like this:

A: die-hard fans. those who watch every single game whether it's nationally televised or not, they find ways to watch every game in any way possible. they live for duke beating carolina, and they love to see carolina fail. they also feel that "rush" of never ending excitement after duke beats carolina. these fans could also tell you about basically any player to ever wear duke blue, whether it be someone as great as laettner or someone as mediocure as melechionni.

B: fans who like duke, they see 1/2 to 3/4 of the games. they like seeing duke beat carolina, but it's just a good win to them, not neccasarily the greatest thing ever. they could name the great players to ever play at duke, but the mediocure ones would probably come as confusion to them.

C: fans who enjoy watching duke. they don't root against duke, but if duke loses it's really not a big deal, there's always more games (or next year, in some cases) these fans could name players only like redick, laettner, brand, hill, maybe battier. a win against carolina is just a little clap for these folks, not really a huge deal.

D: ... of course the bandwagoners. the type of fans who say "OH YEAH I LOVE DUKE, I WATCH THEM ALL THE TIME" ... yet they couldn't even tell you who grant hill is. normally they like duke, until they find another team that's #1 in the polls.


myself, i fit into catergory A easily. where do you fit?

ugadevil
01-07-2008, 03:10 PM
Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.

ThatDukeFan1
01-07-2008, 03:28 PM
Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.

well it is ridiculous, but most of those fans are just fans of ACC basketball, therefore it's understandable. although, the few that claim they love duke and carolina, and no other teams, i agree with you, it's ridiculous.

hurleyfor3
01-07-2008, 03:44 PM
Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.

A not trifling number of people have degrees from both places, and many parents have sent one kid to Duke and another to unc. Whom do they root for? For that matter, what about Terry Sanford? Was it OK for him to stop rooting for the place he received two degrees from once he became the president of Duke?

I think these are the three types of Duke fans:
(1) Those who can count, and
(2) Those who can't.

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-07-2008, 04:02 PM
A not trifling number of people have degrees from both places, and many parents have sent one kid to Duke and another to unc. Whom do they root for? For that matter, what about Terry Sanford? Was it OK for him to stop rooting for the place he received two degrees from once he became the president of Duke?

I think these are the three types of Duke fans:
(1) Those who can count, and
(2) Those who can't.

Don't forget the married couples of a one Duke graduate and one Carolina graduate!

Lavabe
01-07-2008, 04:33 PM
They were known as the "White Phantoms" way back when but adopted the post civil war nickname "tarheels" after NC natives who fought in war between the states. I for one LOATHE NC being called the tarheel state, and when anyone calls me a tarheel I ask them to take that back and say something bad about my momma!

OK, so I get the TAR HOLE business, honoring the folks who fought in the war of northern aggression (the war between the states, the civil war). Fine.

So why a ram? A ram makes no sense if you're talking about white phantoms.

According to Wiki, Cornell developed its alma mater in 1870, and it was later used by other schools, including UNCCH (which adopted its own version in 1897).

Cheers,
Lavabe

Classof06
01-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Judging by my name, you can tell I'm a recent Duke alum and I obviously don't like Carolina. But to be honest, I think Duke fans are way more rational towards Carolina than Carolina fans towards Duke. I know Carolina fans that still insist Duke's 2001 national title team wasn't anything special, which is just plain ignorant. I rarely see that type of sheer ignorance/hatred/mixture of both from Duke fans. Duke fans hate Carolina but they're also much more realistic, IMO.

I personally want Duke to do well much more than I want to see Carolina lose. But if you're asking me whether or not I was rooting for Clemson last night, the answer is yessssss :D ...

wilko
01-07-2008, 05:58 PM
So why a ram?

Cuz the sheep in Chapel Hill can hear a zipper a mile away...

Lavabe
01-07-2008, 06:10 PM
Cuz the sheep in Chapel Hill can hear a zipper a mile away...

Oh no ... this has the makings of its own thread!:D

Cheers,
Lavabe

Indoor66
01-07-2008, 07:49 PM
Cuz the sheep in Chapel Hill can hear a zipper a mile away...

Smile when you say that! I'm from Wyoming where men are men and sheep are scared.

mgtr
01-07-2008, 08:40 PM
Sheep lie! (Punch line of old joke).

My wife and I are in a different category than any stated -- we never (never) miss a Duke BB game, and have left events and parties early in order to go see the game. We don our Duke shirts, socks, etc. and put our Duke glasses (filled with appropriate adult beverages) on our Duke coasters. If we have a beverage that needs a bottle opener, we use a special Duke opener that plays the Duke fight song upon use.
Now, neither of us ever went to Duke, or have been closer to the campus than I-85 (maybe four times). We like the way they play, we like Coach K, we like that they have no problems with the NCAA, in short, we like the character of the players and the team.
We are diehard Duke BB fans. We don't care about football, women's basketball, or archery. We do think that Mike Nifong and others should burn in the lower reaches of eternity.
If you can neatly break most Duke fans into a, b, c etc, then I guess we are about m or n. But nobody, nobody, is a bigger fan of Duke basketball (at least in the last five or six years) than we are.
End of rant.

JasonEvans
01-07-2008, 10:11 PM
Anyone ever meet someone who claimed to be a fan of both, Duke and UNC? I'm sorry to say that I have met many people who make this ridiculous claim. This should probably serve as an indication that I need to stop hanging out with people who are this ignorant, but I press on.

Being a Duke AND Carolina fan. It's like being a Red Sox and Yankees fan, a Buckeye and Wolverine fan, an Auburn and Alabama fan. What a joke.

Uh-oh.

I grew up in a Carolina household. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went there. I grew up bleeding Carolina Blue and watching ACC basketball all the time.

But my grandfather lived in Durham and had season tickets to Duke. Most of my game attendance memories were of going to Duke games where my family of Carolina fans all rooted for Duke to win.

When I went to Duke in 1985, the Duke respect in my family grew even greater. I think all the Carolina fans in the family still smile a bit when Duke loses, sorta like I do when Carolina falls on hard times, but we do not actively root against each other's teams in nearly the way 99.9% of other fans do.

So, if you are looking for folks who are fans of both, come to an Evans family reunion-- you'll find plenty of these strange folks.

--Jason "FWIW, I know a Red Sox fan who likes the Yankees too" Evans

mgtr
01-07-2008, 10:24 PM
Continuation of rant:
And we really don't care if North Carolina (we don't think that Carolina is sufficiently specific) wins or loses, unless it is against Duke.
Now, end of rant.

mgtr
01-07-2008, 10:27 PM
Though we do understand that Tyler Hansbrough has signed on to play the monster in several Hollywood B movie remakes (Son of Frankenstein, The Blob 2, The Creature from Chapel Hill, etc.).

Devil in the Blue Dress
01-07-2008, 10:37 PM
Uh-oh.

I grew up in a Carolina household. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went there. I grew up bleeding Carolina Blue and watching ACC basketball all the time.

But my grandfather lived in Durham and had season tickets to Duke. Most of my game attendance memories were of going to Duke games where my family of Carolina fans all rooted for Duke to win.

When I went to Duke in 1985, the Duke respect in my family grew even greater. I think all the Carolina fans in the family still smile a bit when Duke loses, sorta like I do when Carolina falls on hard times, but we do not actively root against each other's teams in nearly the way 99.9% of other fans do.

So, if you are looking for folks who are fans of both, come to an Evans family reunion-- you'll find plenty of these strange folks.

--Jason "FWIW, I know a Red Sox fan who likes the Yankees too" Evans

I always say that my family is "integrated." We have a couple of generations of Dukies with multiple degrees, some Carolina grads with multiple degrees, some NC State grads (Duke doesn't have a vet school) and one who graduated from SMU. We treat each other's teams with respect when we're together. And oh, yes, the NC State family has strong ties to Ohio State on one side.

It's possible to get along well. We just don't watch games between our teams together!

mgtr
01-07-2008, 10:44 PM
I have degrees from Stanford, California-Davis, and Virginia Tech. I still favor Duke over any of them bums!

mgtr
01-07-2008, 10:50 PM
Oh, and we pay extra each month to Directv so that we are guaranteed to get all the out of area FSN broadcasts of Duke (and other ) BB games. Talk about serious -- we have money on the line!

Bluedawg
01-07-2008, 11:26 PM
One reason Duke is Duke is because Carolina is Carolina. Our close proximity (both physically and emotionally) drives each of us to be the best in the rivalry and, because we are both so good, the best in the sport. Trust me, Duke is a better basketball program because of our rivalry with Carolina.

--Jason "rooting for Duke should be a positive thing" Evans

I agree. I'm hoping that NCSU's "close proximity" will eventually turn them around also.

Could you imagine the triangle with three top ten teams?

devildeac
01-07-2008, 11:42 PM
Smile when you say that! I'm from Wyoming where men are men and sheep are scared.

I thought that was an old Greek joke(no offense intended)

dukemomLA
01-07-2008, 11:55 PM
All of us in my household are "A" fans -- as described by ThatDukeFan1. We root endlessly for Duke, we are glad for the rivalry with UNC -- but hope they lose -- except in non-conference play, since we believe that the ACC is almost always the BEST conference in the country and often isn't given its due. So we wish for ALL ACC teams to do well prior to ACC play.

We have DirecTV and FullCourtPress to watch as many games as possible -- and Tivo the rest. (.....noted: FullCourtPress is NOT needed if one only wants to watch Duke games, as they are almost always broadcast on network or basic cable).

My daughter and son-in-law graduated from Duke in 2001, and contribute financially to Duke every year as their finances permit, as do I.

Their interest is (mostly) Duke MBB. Mine however extends to almost all sports-- and I also LOVE the WBB. We are DIEHARD supporters. Does anyone else out there have a Duke bluedevil rubber ducky? Or a slammer that yells "Ahhhhh, see ya" when you slam it one the table?? (so cool) --- let me know who else is out there.

Go Devils. My daughter is pregnant (yeah) and her T-shirt with a down arrow reads -- "Future Cameron Crazie." Generations of Duke fans, future alums, Rhodes scholars, and....yes more Nobel Prize winners are to come without a doubt.

Great school, great fans, great atmosphere, great CIS. As a Duke mom, I am so blessed to feel part of the Duke family -- a team for whom I have rooted, and chronicled their progress for many years before my daughter matriculated at DUKE.

Lavabe
01-08-2008, 12:29 AM
Does anyone else out there have a Duke bluedevil rubber ducky? Or a slammer that yells "Ahhhhh, see ya" when you slam it one the table?? (so cool) --- let me know who else is out there.

Got my ducky in the shower, but I want to know where to get the slammer. DETAILS?

I just got my longsleeve DBR shirt. WAY cool!
Cheers,
Lavabe

Lavabe
01-08-2008, 12:37 AM
Uh-oh.

I grew up in a Carolina household. My father, uncle, and grandfather all went there. I grew up bleeding Carolina Blue and watching ACC basketball all the time.

But my grandfather lived in Durham and had season tickets to Duke. Most of my game attendance memories were of going to Duke games where my family of Carolina fans all rooted for Duke to win.

When I went to Duke in 1985, the Duke respect in my family grew even greater. I think all the Carolina fans in the family still smile a bit when Duke loses, sorta like I do when Carolina falls on hard times, but we do not actively root against each other's teams in nearly the way 99.9% of other fans do.

So, if you are looking for folks who are fans of both, come to an Evans family reunion-- you'll find plenty of these strange folks.

--Jason "FWIW, I know a Red Sox fan who likes the Yankees too" Evans

THIS EXPLAINS A LOT!! Thanks for sharing it.

I feel like Dr. Phil.:D

The worst Duke Hatred Tsunami I've ever experienced is my brother, a Louisville Law School grad, who for some strange reason REALLY likes UNC.

WHY?!?!?! I don't know. My brother defies logic on this one.
Cheers,
Lavabe

RelativeWays
01-08-2008, 08:26 AM
I'm more of the 2nd type of Duke fan as I want my team to win before I even concern myself with what other teams are doing. I expect UNC to maintain a certain level of competency on the basketball court as its much more rewarding to beat a good team than one that is sub par. I really enjoy the rivalry and I realize that its a boon for both schools. Do I root for UNC to lose from time to time? How can I not? Schadenfreude is good for the soul.

Uncle Drew
01-08-2008, 09:00 AM
Okay 1st I apologize for stirring up a hornets nest and getting people all worked up, that was NOT my intention. And of course a fan can be some of 1, 2 and or 3, though I truly believe most fans would / could affix themselves to one category. Pull for Duke any way you see fit in any manor you choose. The thread was meant to be kind of like the "entitlement" thread I started a few months back. I don't care if you went to Duke, played for Duke or wear Duke underwear, I for one don't think any fan is more entitled than the other. Just as no one can say who is a "true" fan or not.


However as many of us know, trying to explain the Duke vs UNC rivalry (even hatred) is very, very, very difficult to explain to people not attached to one or the other team. In Europe last year I tried to explain to some French and Germans how rabid some of the fans feel about one another. The closest thing I could compare it to would be a world cup final between two adjacent countries. (And hope the result didn't cause a war.) I have also tried to explain the rivalry and compare it to Palestine and Israel. But thankfully no bloodshed has come to pass over duke UNC yet.

I can't imagine attending both schools and earning a degree from both. I'm pretty sure my therapist could label me split personality if I accomplished this feat. And one of the first things I always found out about ANY girl I might be interested in was whether she was a UNC fan or not. Yes I'm crazy (but I'm no beggar so I CAN be choosy!) but I can't bring myself to go out with a female UNC fan no matter how pretty she might be. A female Duke fan would be the antidote for Viagra if I needed such a thing.

That being said when my father died he left explicit instructions his funeral could not be held while Duke was playing. The original time that Saturday was 1PM....Duke played at noon. We watched the Duke game (a win thankfully) and had his funeral. Then two years ago my wife and I planned our Wedding on January 28th only to discover Duke played UVA that night. We got hitched, spent an hour or two with family and then went to watch the game. Thankfully Duke won, but my wife thought I was kidding when I said if Duke lost we wouldn't be consummating the marriage that night.

To all of you, be the best Duke fan you know how to be. But I for one think the words "Go Duke" should always be followed with "Go to hell Carolina go to hell"!

EarlJam
01-08-2008, 09:58 AM
Cuz the sheep in Chapel Hill can hear a zipper a mile away...

Pfffffffffffffftttttttttttttttttttttph!!!!!

HA! HA! HA! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

Excellent.

-EarlJam

DevilCastDownfromDurham
01-08-2008, 10:00 AM
Quote:

"Pull for Duke any way you see fit in any manor you choose."


I'm sure I make as many typos as anyone else, so I'm not trying to be the spelling police. But this one just made me snort my morning coffee through my nose. Given our reputations as a wealthy fanbase the idea of "choosing the manor" where we watch the games just tickled me. "Hmmm, will it be the chateau in the country or my palatial penthouse for the Temple game tonight?" :D

Also, I have, and love a Blue Devil Ducky which is sitting on my desk staring at me as I type this.

wilko
01-08-2008, 01:00 PM
Smile when you say that! I'm from Wyoming where men are men and sheep are scared.

Oh I am smiling. :) No disrespect to the men and sheep of Wyoming.
Its a DIG just for our friends in Chapel Hill.

devildeac
01-08-2008, 06:04 PM
All of us in my household are "A" fans -- as described by ThatDukeFan1. We root endlessly for Duke, we are glad for the rivalry with UNC -- but hope they lose -- except in non-conference play, since we believe that the ACC is almost always the BEST conference in the country and often isn't given its due. So we wish for ALL ACC teams to do well prior to ACC play.

We have DirecTV and FullCourtPress to watch as many games as possible -- and Tivo the rest. (.....noted: FullCourtPress is NOT needed if one only wants to watch Duke games, as they are almost always broadcast on network or basic cable).

My daughter and son-in-law graduated from Duke in 2001, and contribute financially to Duke every year as their finances permit, as do I.

Their interest is (mostly) Duke MBB. Mine however extends to almost all sports-- and I also LOVE the WBB. We are DIEHARD supporters. Does anyone else out there have a Duke bluedevil rubber ducky? Or a slammer that yells "Ahhhhh, see ya" when you slam it one the table?? (so cool) --- let me know who else is out there.

Go Devils. My daughter is pregnant (yeah) and her T-shirt with a down arrow reads -- "Future Cameron Crazie." Generations of Duke fans, future alums, Rhodes scholars, and....yes more Nobel Prize winners are to come without a doubt.

Great school, great fans, great atmosphere, great CIS. As a Duke mom, I am so blessed to feel part of the Duke family -- a team for whom I have rooted, and chronicled their progress for many years before my daughter matriculated at DUKE.

Another proud owner of a Blue Devil rubber duckie chiming in here. Just sits on our computer desk and stares at the TV(but I swear one time I heard it quack "go to hell, carolina, go to hell'):D

Ann Arbor Devil
01-08-2008, 10:28 PM
I like the Type A categorization described earlier in this thread and suspect that a majority of us on this board fit this description.

But I am wondering if there is a useful distinction within this group b/w 1) fans in this category who happily wear this identity on their sleeves--sport the gear, decorate their office in Duke blue, have Coach K as their screen saver--and 2) those who are more conflicted about their obsession and try (usually unsuccessfully) to keep it under wraps. Those in the latter subcategory might often wonder why their emotional well-being can be so affected (at least temporarily) by whether or not a 19 year-old hits a jump shot, if they would be better off reading The Economist than hoops chat room banter, and whether it's good for their physical health to scream repeatedly at Psycho T through the TV. But despite the internal debate, come game time this type of fan will still be there glued to the set and will be willing afterwards to debate important issues such as the best (Kenny Dennard undercut of Buck Williams in 1980 ACC championship) vs. worst (Jared Jeffries mugging Carlos Boozer in 2002 Sweet 16) end of game no-calls in Duke hoops history.

Psychologists make the distinction between traits that are "ego syntonic"--that is, fully embraced by oneself, and "ego dystonic." Where are you on this dimension with regard to your Duke fandom?