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Buckeye Devil
01-05-2008, 09:16 PM
Earlier this evening Jay Bilas essentially put UK fans in their place after the now 6-7 Mildcats lost to Louisville. In a nutshell, he said that UK fans got what they wanted: a change from "10-loss Tubby" and that now they should shut up, be patient and give Gillispie a chance to recruit and establish his system at UK.

He also said that while Gillispie may be a better recruiter that he is not a better coach than Tubby Smith. He credited Minnesota's relativey quick start to Tubby's coaching as evidence that he is a better coach than Gillispie. He did say that one day Gillispie might be as good a coach as Tubby.

It was kind of fun to hear. It is very possible that the Mildcats could lose four SEC games to start conference play since they playvVandy, Miss. St, Florida, and Tennessee. The fans will really howl if they go 6-11.

mgtr
01-05-2008, 09:18 PM
Hey, they got what they asked for, didn't they? Tubby was a good coach, but not a good enough recruiter for the Wildcats.

Buckeye Devil
01-05-2008, 09:30 PM
Hey, they got what they asked for, didn't they? Tubby was a good coach, but not a good enough recruiter for the Wildcats.

I couldn't agree more with you on that one. I want to enjoy it for as long as I can. Tubby is a decent fellow and seemingly ran a clean program. He deserved better than he got from UK and their fans.

In being around a lot of UK supporters in college, I found them to be some of the most arrogant and nauseating fans ever. However, I do wish that I would have taken them up on the offer to go see a game at Rupp Arena. I am lucky that Duke lost to Louisville in '86 and not to UK.

ThatDukeFan1
01-08-2008, 02:35 PM
i live in indiana, and i am a DIE-HARD duke fan, but don't get it wrong, i'm still a hoosier fan as well......... and i HATE KENTUCKY. and if they can't beat houston (whoever the heck that is?), san diego, or any of these nodies, they won't even make it to the NIT, mark my words.

Classof06
01-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Earlier this evening Jay Bilas essentially put UK fans in their place after the now 6-7 Mildcats lost to Louisville. In a nutshell, he said that UK fans got what they wanted: a change from "10-loss Tubby" and that now they should shut up, be patient and give Gillispie a chance to recruit and establish his system at UK.

He also said that while Gillispie may be a better recruiter that he is not a better coach than Tubby Smith. He credited Minnesota's relativey quick start to Tubby's coaching as evidence that he is a better coach than Gillispie. He did say that one day Gillispie might be as good a coach as Tubby.

It was kind of fun to hear. It is very possible that the Mildcats could lose four SEC games to start conference play since they playvVandy, Miss. St, Florida, and Tennessee. The fans will really howl if they go 6-11.

I was watching this segment from Bilas in my living room and I almost stood up and gave him a standing ovation. It was so true. The best was when he ended all speculation and called out that Tubby was a better coach than Gillespie. I loved how blatantly he put that out there. I might not always agree with Bilas, but I do like that he tells it like he sees it...

SilkyJ
01-08-2008, 03:36 PM
I was watching this segment from Bilas in my living room and I almost stood up and gave him a standing ovation. It was so true. The best was when he ended all speculation and called out that Tubby was a better coach than Gillespie. I loved how blatantly he put that out there. I might not always agree with Bilas, but I do like that he tells it like he sees it...

wish i had seen it. but you know what, who really cares about UK. They're supposed to hate us, we aren't supposed to care about them. not our rivals.

9F!

mgtr
01-08-2008, 05:15 PM
Maybe 15 years ago or so, Clemson had a very good football coach, who was winning all but maybe two games a year. I am sure that someone on this board will remember his name. Unfortunately, he was not a good old boy, and the fans didn't like him. So they fired him, and it has been mostly all downhill since then. May be repeated with UK basketball.
What is the old line? Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

elvis14
01-08-2008, 06:26 PM
Maybe 15 years ago or so, Clemson had a very good football coach, who was winning all but maybe two games a year. I am sure that someone on this board will remember his name. Unfortunately, he was not a good old boy, and the fans didn't like him. So they fired him, and it has been mostly all downhill since then. May be repeated with UK basketball.
What is the old line? Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

That would be either Danny Ford or his successor Ken Hatfield. Ford won a national championship in '82 and was putting up a bunch of 9-3 seasons every year and winning his bowl games. Something happened (alleged recruiting violations I think and Danny was cleared, an assistant took the fall) and the administration didn't back Danny so he left. He was replaced by Hatfield who was coaching Arkansas at the time. As a side note Ford later worked for Arkansas just to complete the cycle. Hatfield was never popular with the Clemson fans even though he was putting up 9-3 seasons just like Danny (although I don't think he did well in bowl games). But Danny was the beloved because he won the NC. Hatfield (who as you say, was not a good 'ol boy) was fired and it's taken Clemson years to get back to that level.

I was in grad school at Clemson from '89 to '91 when all this was going on. I always felt that Hatfield really got the short end of the stick from the Clemson football fans.

jimsumner
01-08-2008, 06:58 PM
"Something happened (alleged recruiting violations I think and Danny was cleared, an assistant took the fall"

An interesting interpretation. The something that allegededly happened was a five-year pattern of recruiting violations under both Charlie Pell and Danny Ford. Let me quote just a portion of the NCAA report.

"In December 1980 a former assistant coach offered to provide a prospective student-athlete a substantial amount of cash and an automobile to sign a letter-of-intent . ..

In December 1980, a representative of the university's athletic interests gave a prospective student-athlete a substantial amount of cash in return for his signature on a letter of intent, as well as several other gifts. . .

In December 1980 a representative of the university's athletic interests arranged for a substantial amount of cash to be given to a prospective student-athlete and provided the young man and his mother substantial gifts.

On numerous occasions during the 1980-1981 academic year, a representative of the university's athletic interests gave prospective student-athletes cash."

I'll stop now but you get the drift.

Note the adjectives. "Substantial." "Numerous."

Clemson was docked 20 scholarships, TV appearances were banned and they were prohibited from going to bowl games for three seasons.

Who were these mysterious "representatives?" Clemson's M.O. in this period was to turn well-heeled booster loose with instructions to do whatever it took to get them to sign on the doted line. Think I'm exaggerating? Find a copy of Tates Locke's book Caught in the Net. He goes into considerable detail and names names. Locke, of course, was the basketball coach who got the hoops program in even more trouble than the football program, if that's possible.

BTW, the idea that this all happened without the knowledge and tacit approval of the head coach strains credulity.

Ann Arbor Devil
01-08-2008, 07:01 PM
Maybe Jay is a bit grumpy of late b/c he has also taken John Beilein to task recently.

But the Michigan faitfhul are dismissing him a blindly loyal to his buddy Tommy Amaker. See this local columnist's take.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2008/01/a_reality_check_for_the_broken.html

ArkieDukie
01-08-2008, 07:41 PM
That would be either Danny Ford or his successor Ken Hatfield. Ford won a national championship in '82 and was putting up a bunch of 9-3 seasons every year and winning his bowl games. Something happened (alleged recruiting violations I think and Danny was cleared, an assistant took the fall) and the administration didn't back Danny so he left. He was replaced by Hatfield who was coaching Arkansas at the time. As a side note Ford later worked for Arkansas just to complete the cycle. Hatfield was never popular with the Clemson fans even though he was putting up 9-3 seasons just like Danny (although I don't think he did well in bowl games). But Danny was the beloved because he won the NC. Hatfield (who as you say, was not a good 'ol boy) was fired and it's taken Clemson years to get back to that level.

I was in grad school at Clemson from '89 to '91 when all this was going on. I always felt that Hatfield really got the short end of the stick from the Clemson football fans.

Hatfield also got the short end of the stick from Razorback fans - that's why he took the Clemson job. I think Clemson wanted him because Hatfield's name is pretty much synonymous with integrity.

Oh, and the Razorback program got into trouble with the NCAA over some stuff that happened during Danny Ford's tenure as head football coach. I saw that one coming as soon as they hired him. Does that also qualify as completing the cycle? :)

Clipsfan
01-08-2008, 08:14 PM
Maybe Jay is a bit grumpy of late b/c he has also taken John Beilein to task recently.

But the Michigan faitfhul are dismissing him a blindly loyal to his buddy Tommy Amaker. See this local columnist's take.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2008/01/a_reality_check_for_the_broken.html

I don't think that Bilas' comments are all that bad, although the context of Beilein's comments would make quite a difference. Saying that your players need to go to Montessori is not a very supportive thing to say, though, so I don't know how the context would help there.

Reading the comments on these pages normally serves very little purpose, but I do have to say that I start to rapidly discount the strength of an argument when the poster can't spell simple words correctly (or even slightly complex words). Apparently the fans of that article can't spell.

mgtr
01-08-2008, 08:37 PM
Right, you guys supplied the correct names at Clemson. Danny Ford seemed to bring trouble wherever he went. Ken Hatfield was straight arrow, but not popular (although he won). I still maintain that Clemson has been pretty much downhill since they dumped Hatfield.

elvis14
01-09-2008, 02:24 PM
"Something happened (alleged recruiting violations I think and Danny was cleared, an assistant took the fall)"

An interesting interpretation. The something that allegededly happened was a five-year pattern of recruiting violations under both Charlie Pell and Danny Ford. Let me quote just a portion of the NCAA report.


Didn't mean to give an interpretation just giving highlights from memory. I could be more careful. Let me just state that just because Danny was able to avoid getting anything directly pinned on him I have no illusion's of Danny Ford being innocent. Thanks for the more correct (meaning not from my memory) info.


I still maintain that Clemson has been pretty much downhill since they dumped Hatfield.

I don't think Clemson football is currently going downhill. They are at least going nowhere. Tommy Bowden has done OK and his teams are just good enough to give fans a glimmer of hope for great things the last couple of years....hope that's eventually dashed. Perhaps he should coach NCSU :D

Classof06
01-09-2008, 03:27 PM
I don't think that Bilas' comments are all that bad, although the context of Beilein's comments would make quite a difference. Saying that your players need to go to Montessori is not a very supportive thing to say, though, so I don't know how the context would help there.

Reading the comments on these pages normally serves very little purpose, but I do have to say that I start to rapidly discount the strength of an argument when the poster can't spell simple words correctly (or even slightly complex words). Apparently the fans of that article can't spell.

I don't think what Bilas said was that bad either and the author of this article does a complete slant job on this. I watch college basketball on ESPN upwards of 3-4 times a week and everytime Michgan is brought up, Bilas goes out of his way to say "Hang in there, Michigan fans. You have a good coach but it's just going to take time". In regards to Beilein, it's pretty classless to bash your players. Tubby Smith is doing 2x better with comparable to inferior talent at Minnesota.

I watched the Michigan-Indiana game last night and while Michigan's players aren't great (Duke fans can attest to that), their offensive philosophy didn't seem to fit the personnel whatsoever. They basically spent 40 minutes jacking up the first open 3 afforded within the flow of the offensive set. It worked at WVU but it looked awful last night. By doing a quick search on Google news, I can tell I'm not the first person to notice that Beilein's system is incongruent. In short, Michigan looks like a young team with average coaching. If it were great coaching, they wouldn't be 4-11; it is more than plausible for them to be better than that right now.