To whom did Kentucky lose?!?!

[JasonEvans]

San Diego... the same San Diego that was 6-8 coming into the game and rated #162 by Sagarin. The same San Diego that has lost to Stephen F Austin.

Oh, and the game was at Kentucky.

Whew...

--Jason "Hey PP, think ya might have made a tiny mistake?" Evans

[jimsumner]

And you know the weirdest thing? It doesn't even seem like an upset anymore. Kentucky is going to have to work real, real hard just to make the NIT.

[JasonEvans]

And you know the weirdest thing? It doesn't even seem like an upset anymore. Kentucky is going to have to work real, real hard just to make the NIT.

They are 5-6 now with non-conf games left against Fla International and Louisville. Hard to see them beating Lousiville. Heck, the way they are playing even 3-8 Sun Belt doormat Fla International may be a test.

So, unless they go better than .500 in the SEC, they ain't getting to .500 on the season and that is the NIT cutoff. The irony is that if they went 9-7 or 10-6 in the SEC (they play 16 conference games, right?) they would be in line for an NCAA bid under ordinary circumstances.

--Jason "Billy G does have a pair of top 50-ish recruits coming in and is still working on the 2008 class, but none of them look like quick fix/instant impact kinda players" Evans

[Carlos]

Does it make me a bad person to watch Patrick Patterson and enjoy seeing him lose?

[YmoBeThere]

Hmmm, maybe Tubby wasn't such a bad coach after all?

[dukediv2013]

I feel bad for Patrick Patterson. He deserves a better team than that, but I guess he had his chance.

[jimsumner]

"Hmmm, maybe Tubby wasn't such a bad coach after all?"

No, no, no. Tubby didn't leave BG anyone to coach. Don't you read Kentucky message boards? :)

I know, I know. We all have our guilty pleasures.

[House G]

Watching Patterson today reminded me of Duke's home and away series with LSU in the early 90's. Shaquille O'Neal was double- and triple-teamed throughout both games because LSU had no guards/outside threat. Patterson will continue to receive this sort of treatment if Kentucky cannot shoot better than 23% from beyond the arc. I can't help but wonder about his impact if he were surrounded by Duke's plethora of "young guns".

[devildeac]

Does it make me a bad person to watch Patrick Patterson and enjoy seeing him lose?

No, 'los, it makes you a normal person(snicker, snicker, tell me again who the sUcK lost to) BWAHAHAHA!!

[SeattleIrish]

No, 'los, it makes you a normal person(snicker, snicker, tell me again who the sUcK lost to) BWAHAHAHA!!

Well, it sure doesn't make either of you GOOD people.

I don't get all the hatin' on PP. Unless there's something I missed where he talked smack about Duke, or mislead Duke in the recruitment process, then I don't understand why so many people on DBR are wishing him ill.

Obviously K thought he was a good person and thought well enough of him to want to work with him for four years...as long as PP went where he really wanted to go, then I wish him a wonderful stay in Lexington (and that he never wins a game against Duke).

Can anyone help me better understand the hard feelings?

s.i.

[Lord Ash]

Because with Patrick Duke would be a favorite to win the national championship, and since he chose to go elsewhere it feels like he tore away a good chance at a title from us, therefore we enjoy seeing him falter.

Of course, the fate of Kentucky has little to do with PPs NBA fate.

[jimsumner]

RE: Patterson. One school of thought is that PP never had any intention of going to Duke but allowed Duke to recruit him because he enjoyed the attention, liked the publicity, it enhanced his ranking, he liked recruiting visits, take your pick.

Not sure I buy any of that but lots of other people do.

[yancem]

Hmmm, maybe Tubby wasn't such a bad coach after all?

I've been meaning to start a tread about Tubby's exit. Do you think he saw this coming? Kentucky has been far from dominate the last few years but they have been at least decent if not pretty good. I don't remember them losing a huge chunk of talent and they brought in a decent recruiting class, so why are they sooooo bad. I haven't seen them play yet this year so I can't speculate about the coaching but something certainly is going very very wrong.

[ArkieDukie]

I'd like to think it's a case of karma all around. The KY fans ran off a great coach in Tubby Smith. Billy Gillispie allegedly let it be known that he'd accept the AR coaching job if it was offered, so Heath was fired. Gillispie then ditched AR as soon as he was mentioned for the KY job. I think the situation has worked out well for all concerned - especially since KY is losing to the likes of San Diego. :D

[OldPhiKap]

Q: How many Kentucky fans does it take to change a light bulb?

A: 80,000. One to change the light bulb, and 79,999 to talk about how good the old light bulb was in years past.


They ran Tubby off -- they deserve what they get.

[ArkieDukie]

Q: How many Kentucky fans does it take to change a light bulb?

A: 80,000. One to change the light bulb, and 79,999 to talk about how good the old light bulb was in years past.


They ran Tubby off -- they deserve what they get.

LOL!

So, would they also start a "get rid of the new bulb" website? 'cause I'm thinking it's only a matter of time before the fans start calling for Gillispie's head on a silver platter.

[OldPhiKap]

LOL!

So, would they also start a "get rid of the new bulb" website? 'cause I'm thinking it's only a matter of time before the fans start calling for Gillispie's head on a silver platter.


Not so sure the 'tucky faithful have too many silver platters.

I think they want Gillispie's head in a bucket with a side of slaw and tater tots.

[DukeBlood]

I watched most of the 1st half, and all of the 2nd half.

Kentucky is LUCKY they have Patterson. He looks to be their whole team at times. He would look alot better in a Duke uni though :).

People, I understand alot of you are upset that he went to Kentucky. However, Its not like he played Duke or mislead them. Coach K thought he was a wonderful person and usually Coach K wont misjudge character.

I dont believe Tubby Smith left them in THAT BAD of shape.

Players not returning

Lukasz Obrzut (Graduated)
Bobby Perry (Graduated)
Sheray Thomas (Graduated)
Randolph Morris (Early NBA)

A couple of those players hurt. The recruiting did a good job of replacing those guys. Im not sure if Billy is struggling at Kentucky. Something just isnt right.

Ohh, And I really dislike Kentucky. :) I hope they lose everygame. Not the players though. Just the program

[ArkieDukie]

Not so sure the 'tucky faithful have too many silver platters.

I think they want Gillispie's head in a bucket with a side of slaw and tater tots.

BWAHAHAHA! POTY!

Here in Arkansas we'd want tater salad or baked beans in place of the tater tots. We're a tad bit more refined.

[cspan37421]

I just finished watching Duke-UK 1992, again. My dad was here, and he has been periodically reporting back to me that the sentiment in KY, from KY fans, is still a searing, white-hot hatred of Duke in general and Laettner in particular. We've even discussed the "stomp" and how each side sees it differently. He got to see it again and agreed, it wasn't much of a stomp. Maybe if he swung at the guys jaw with a clenched fist, you eject him, but not for a little jabbing kick.

What a great game. You know, you look at the score and the shooting percentages and you figure that by the numbers, it wasn't much of a defensive game. But the defense was intense - the offense(s) just overcame it. So many shots just went in. Shots that maybe go in 25% of the time - they were going in 75% of the time.

I suppose KY fans never watch the game again, so they probably don't see that pretty much the first thing K says is what a great team Kentucky is. This is after he ran down Coach Pitino to shake his hand, and a UK player too. If any Dukies lurk on the UK message boards, they ought to put what coach K said about them in their sig line. I don't think they remember how gracious K was, and they probably need reminding. It need not be such a hate. Rivalry yes, but it can be carried with dignity, such as that of Tony Lang who was hugging/congratulating many of the KY guys afterwards, such as Mashburn.

I love our team this year, and they could win a lot of games. But I don't think they can win it all until they can at least rebound on par with their better opponents, i.e., ones they would face in the tourney. Either that or bring up the FT% a lot. But both can't be below avg. for a team that otherwise could go far. That '92 team could rebound.

[diablesseblu]

You reminded me of why I loathe KY. Was in Philly for the game and was sitting in scalped seats among KY fans.

Am not a vocal fan in hostile settings and have been in dicey situations before (MD/Cole that same year). However, the emnity towards Duke was apparent during the entire game --- not just after the loss. The KY fans that night were just plain scary. I was worried about physical violence (and was not dressed in Duke regalia).

Have never been able to hate Carolina since that game.They are "wimps" compared to the loonies I saw from UK. There's some powerful displaced anger or something in that fan base.

Am not surprised they ran off Tubby and am enjoying their struggles. Feel badly for the players though.

[VaDukie]

The saddest thing for Kentucky: No one cares

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/ncb/index

10 points if you can find the story on this game without using your search key.

Anyone remember how bad our stories were last year when we 'only' won 22 games?

UK = Irrelevant

[Patrick Yates]

Correct me if I am wrong, but does Gillespie have a contract yet? I read that he didn't but that was a few months ago. I heard this was cause of friction with the AD, so who knows? With no quick fixes coming in, and PP maybe on the way out (sinking ship and what not), I don't see Gillespie fixing this thing. Not that he was ever a winner anywhere. At A&M he was lauded for fielding competitive teams, but it is not like they knocked off Kansas for the conf title, nor were they likely to in the near future.

Gillespie wanted a taste of big time college hoops, and he might not like the flavor. He might be encouraged to look elsewhere this year. How much would Billy D get iff'n that happens?

That snarked, we may be seeing a sea change. In recent years, the "prestige' programs have had trouble filling the vacancies. KY's problems have been well documented, same with UCLA which suffered through a wasteland after Wooden. That may or may not be alleviated with Howland, but he has to win a NC to redeem himself.

UNC had fits when Deano retired, and St. Dean had to emotionally blackmail, and maybe actually blackmail, Roy to get him home. Indiana is having fits as well. Duke has a coach in the wings, but, in the HIGHLY UNLIKELY (but mentioned here for purposes of discussion) event that Dawkins fails as a HC, I have a feeling that getting a quality coach will be hard.

We throw stones at KY, but how will a coach ever measure up to K unless he wins a NC, or goes to multiple FFs, immediately? We will likely remember the good old days.

Frankly, I think we will see more Billy D situations, where coaches shun the elite programs due to unreasonable fan expections. Hey, Florida consideres a hoops program to be gravy. At Duke, KY, KU, UCLA, UNC, IU, we expect greatness.

Win a NC? We expected that. Why haven't you won more than 1 already? The last guy was better anyway.

I think filling these positions, outside the family, will get increasingly difficult in the modern media soaked world.

Enjoy KY's failures. But be warned. K will not be here forever. We might one day long for what was.

Patrick Yates

[DukeBlood]

I did forget to mention one thing.

Jodie Meeks and Derrick Jasper have been injured. Jasper seen his first action of the season and Meeks was injured in their 2nd or 3rd game.

These two guys SHOULD make this team be better. Im not saying they will win the SEC E(H#LL NO) but they should atleast compete and MAYBE make a top 3 in the SEC E.

Tennessee and Vanderbilt are more then likely 1 and 2. I believe Kentucky finishes 3rd behind those two.

Florida isnt that good. Their only OK team they played was Ohio State and they looked terrible against them. Nick Calathes is a good looking Frosh. Outisde of that, they arent real deep.

[diablesseblu]

Agree with everything you posted.

However, I hope in my heart of hearts that Duke's true fans will never lower themselves to the behavior of the more classless of the UK fan base.

That would be tragic and a horrible reflection on the type of legacy I think K hopes to leave at Duke.

[Duke09]

The one thing in Duke's favor is we have done it before. Replaced Bubas and replaced Foster. Neither one won a championship but both made Final Fours were among the best in the business. When K leaves there may be growing pains, but I have faith in the Duke name

[Olympic Fan]

The one thing in Duke's favor is we have done it before. Replaced Bubas and replaced Foster. Neither one won a championship but both made Final Fours were among the best in the business. When K leaves there may be growing pains, but I have faith in the Duke name

While I am enjoying Kentucky's current discomforture as much as anybody, you have to admire the history of the program. You say Duke replaced Bubas and Foster?

Well, Kentucky replaced Rupp with Joe Hall, who won a national title. They replaced Hall with Eddie Sutton who had some great teams. When Sutton got them on probation, they replaced Sutton with Rick Pitino, who won a national title. And when Pitino bolted for the NBA, they replaced Pitino with Tubby Smith, who won a national title (and never failed to reach at least the second round of the NCAA Tournament).

Nobody has done a better job of replacing good and great coaches than Kentucky -- no other school has ever won national titles under four different coaches.

Replacing a great coach is the toughest thing in the world to do. I hope Duke can pull it off better than UNC did after losing Smith or Indiana did after losing Knight. I hope Duke can do it as well as Kentucky did after losing Rupp or Pitino.

Most of all, I hope Duke doesn't have to do it for a long, long time.

[ArkieDukie]

... is that they don't think they had to replace a great coach. For me, at least, that's why I am laughing inside at their current record. It's the same reason I've enjoyed the downfall of Nebraska football. I have yet to figure out why they fired Frank Solich. Same with Notre Dame getting rid of Tyrone Willingham.

[kydevil]

Another fun game to be at!

People can say that Tubby left Billy G a team with no talent, which I can somewhat reason with.

However they play with no energy and passion and I blame that on the coach!

It's ok though the fans here still have there claim to fame, most all time wins. :D

[cspan37421]

I disagree a bit with Patrick. UNC may have quietly asked Guthridge to retire, but he had a high win% while he coached. IIRC he simply didn't go as deep into the tournament as was desired. And although Doh was a disaster, it wasn't his first year, only his last. And they replaced him with Ol' Roy, who did deliver a title. So, save for 1 year, they haven't exactly been playing poor ball.

UCLA did flounder without Wooden, but not forever. Didn't Harrick win a title there c. 1995? Indiana - well, yes, they've not been consistent, but they've been OK. You can't reasonably expect that Knight could be replaced by his equal, unless they could hire away K.

I do agree with the broad outline of PY's position, though, that it will be hard to replace K, that expectations may be rather high for Johnny D or any other successor. But high standards are important, so long as they are realistic. You get the best coach you can. If Johnny D can recruit, teach, and motivate, then I think he'll be a good choice. I loved Johnny D as a player (what Dukie wouldn't?) but in terms of succeeding K I would very much prefer that a candidate prove themselves elsewhere first. It may be that JD is as involved as K in terms of running things, and therefore he is proving himself at Duke, but I don't buy that. It isn't the same, K still has the reins and I'm sure JD and the players still primarily rely on K. JMO.

In fact I wouldn't mind considering Amaker. He stepped into a pile of doo-doo at Michigan which really hurt his already-demonstrated ability to recruit and coach. I don't know what kind of recruiting is done at Harvard but Tommy did pretty well at UM considering the handicaps that the job turned out to have. At least we'll see how he coaches.

[jimsumner]

"UNC may have quietly asked Guthridge to retire, but he had a high win% while he coached. IIRC he simply didn't go as deep into the tournament as was desired."

Two Final Fours in three seasons is going pretty deep into the tournament. He did have that loss to Weber State but still . . .

BG was hired to be an interim coach to take the program from Dean Smith to Roy Williams. It sorta worked out that way, albeit with an unexpected detour along the way.

[RelativeWays]

Kentucky Is Doomed, Its All Over. All That Basketball Tradition Down The Drain! They'll Never Be Competitive Ever Again! Ashley Judd On Suicide Watch. The Demise Of The Wildcats Is Finally Here! Sensationalism!!!!!

[Indoor66]

Ashley Judd On Suicide Watch.

I volunteer to help Ashley through these trying times - and convert her to a Blue Devil.

[monkey]

I'd like to think it's a case of karma all around. The KY fans ran off a great coach in Tubby Smith.

There's a bit too much Tubby love on this board. Look, he was a good coach, seemed to have run a clean program (not a given at Kentucky) and his national championship team in 98 left me with one of the saddest road trips home I can remember, but seriously, I don't blame KY fans for being a little unimpressed (though I think they took it way, way too far). Every time I saw one of his teams play after 98 they never looked inspired, even when they were good.

He made the NCAA each year (making the elite eight a couple of times to go with the championship). Tubby coached at KY - one of the premier college basketball programs in the country. He should be making the tourney on a regular basis. He had recruiting advantages few other schools had and coming out of the Pitino era, the Kentucky name was gold.

I also think the talent level as compared to what they could have had (IMO) can be laid at Tubby's feet. He was the coach for nearly a decade. They didn't just get bad overnight this year.

I think KY fans made a mistake. But people here are a little too excited by Tubby.

[YmoBeThere]

But people here are a little too excited by Tubby.

I don't think we are too excited about Tubby. Just thinking that he had gotten short shrift. Were his teams exciting in the way that Pitino's Kentucky teams were? Definitely not...and I think he suffered from that comparison. FWIW, outside the 2004-2005 season, Louisville under Pitino certainly hasn't done any better than UK.

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think we are too excited about Tubby. Just thinking that he had gotten short shrift. Were his teams exciting in the way that Pitino's Kentucky teams were? Definitely not...and I think he suffered from that comparison. FWIW, outside the 2004-2005 season, Louisville under Pitino certainly hasn't done any better than UK.


My beef is with the fans who never accepted Tubby for, um, undisclosed reasons. I don't have a problem with the 'tucky faithful who decided that a change was needed. But some never gave this guy a chance, despite being a pretty d@mn good coach at his peak.

(Aside: I saw Tubby speak recently and he was the most unfocused guy I've ever seen. I think age may be creeping up on the guy. I'm afraid his best days may be behind him at this point regardless of where he is).

[sandinmyshoes]

The UNC fans I know were mostly upset at Guthridge's recruiting, with players like Boone, Morrison, and Fingleton becoming the norm rather than guys like Carter, Jamison and Cota.

I also hear conflicting reports as to how long Guthridge was supposed to stay. Some swear he was only supposed to stay a year (something about his pension being larger?) and decided to stay longer. Supposedly Roy Williams was upset about that and it may have figured into his turning the job down the first time.

Whatever the truth is, it seems that Guthridge's age and the feeling that he was just a seat warmer was being used against him in recruiting battles. He was pretty successful as a game coach, but he didn't leave the program with as strong a talent pool as he found it.

For Duke, I think it depends on how long Coach K coaches. If he goes into his late sixties or even seventies, Dawkins own age might become a factor. But regardless, I think we will rarely see long head coaching tenures like that of Dean Smith or Coach K among the elite programs any more. The job has become so big and complicated that the ADs are usually looking for guys in their mid-40s to early 50s to take it on. Guys who are proven head coaches. This seems to lead to more 10-15 year tenures rather than 20-30 year stays.

[Carlos]

I disagree a bit with Patrick. UNC may have quietly asked Guthridge to retire, but he had a high win% while he coached. IIRC he simply didn't go as deep into the tournament as was desired.

As has been pointed out, Gut did go deep in the NCAA Tournament, but his demise was that he simply didn't recruit well enough. Gut took over a team in 1998 that had lost in the National Semi's the previous year with Carter, Jamison, Cota, Shammond Williams, Okulaja, Zwikker, and Mahktar Ndjerk. In his first year he made a miraculous run to the Final Four with essentially the same team except Zwikker was replaced by Haywood, one of the last of the Dean Smith recruits.

In 1999 Gut added his first recruiting class with Jason Capel, Ron Curry, and Kris Lang. On paper it looked like a strong class as all three were McD's AA players, but as we all know, there are varying levels of McD's players. Of those guys on the list only Curry was the kind of athlete that Carolina had been building around with the Rasheed Wallace/Jerry Stackhouse and Carter/Jamison pairs.

In 2000 Gut's second class was Joe Forte, John Holmes, Will Johnson, and a disastrous flirtation with Jason Parker, a guy who couldn't make it past the admissions office. The Heels made a run to the Final Four that year behind Forte and the holdovers from the Dean era - Cota and Haywood.

Gut was fire... er, retired in June of 2000 at which time the recruiting for the next season was already finished. His last class was Adam Boone, Neil Fingleton, and Brian Morrison, a pair of guys who both ended up transferring. They also spent another season trying to get Jason Parker into school and came up with the same result.

If you track Gut's recruiting you can see it getting steadily worse. With the exception of Forte there was no guy who was a true superstar for the Heels. The big money was getting nervous and at the same time, Roy Williams was putting together some great Kansas teams. It also didn't help that the Heels were getting dominated by Duke during that same time span. Hence, buh-bye Gut.

[Tom B.]

In his first year he made a miraculous run to the Final Four with essentially the same team except Zwikker was replaced by Haywood, one of the last of the Dean Smith recruits.


I don't know if I'd call Guthridge's 1998 Final Four run "miraculous" -- as you noted, he inherited a talented, experienced and very strong team with basically the same personnel that had gone to the Final Four a year before and managed not to screw it up.

I'd say that his "miracle" Final Four run was in 2000, not 1998, when Carolina finished the regular season 18-12 and lost in the first round of the ACC Tournament, and there was talk that they might not even make the NCAA Tournament. The got in as a #8 seed and got a gift of a draw on their side of the region with the only #1 seed that they matched up well against (Stanford) and a #4 seed that historically flamed out of the NCAAs, usually in a predictably boneheaded way (any Tennessee team under Jerry Green). On the other side of the region, the #2 seed (Cincinnati) had dominated the regular season but then lost its best player (Kenyon Martin) to a broken leg in its conference tournament and was upset in the second round, and the #3 seed (Ohio State) also was upset in the second round. The result of that carnage was that Carolina's opponent in the regional final was Tulsa, the #7 seed, which Carolina beat in a snoozer by a score of 59-55.

[Carlos]

Tom - I know that sarcasm doesn't translate well on a message board but c'mon - it's me and I'm talking about the Heels, clearly I'm going to be sarcastic.

[RP_McMurphy]

Thank you to all the Duke fans for their concern about Kentucky. It is a transition year as the teams moves from Tubby's system to Billy Gillispie's system.

During most coaching changes it takes awhile for the new coaches system to work. It has been even tougher at Kentucky as it has been missing two of it's top guards due to injuries. Only yesterday did both get over 20 minutes for a game for the first time this year. No doubt Kentucky has it's holes and will take time to fill them at this point.

Get Kentucky now and part of next year as Kentucky will be a monster very shortly. Don't go writing Kentucky's obit just yet as we will be back and just as Kentucky as before.

[YmoBeThere]

Thank you to all the Duke fans for their concern about Kentucky. It is a transition year as the teams moves from Tubby's system to Billy Gillispie's system.

Why does everyone use this "transition year" as an excuse for poor performance? Seems to me that Tubby didn't suffer any letdown in his first year at Kentucky...and time showed his style was very different from Pitino's.

[Karl Beem]

Get Kentucky now and part of next year as Kentucky will be a monster very shortly. Don't go writing Kentucky's obit just yet as we will be back and just as Kentucky as before.

Does that mean probation is around the corner?:rolleyes:

[RP_McMurphy]

I think the talent Tubby inherited is a little bit different than he left behind. Kentucky's talent level is at it's worse level in 20 years. No that's not a excuse just the facts that Tubby blew off recruiting for many a year and Kentucky suffered because of it.

[YmoBeThere]

My comments are not about absolute performance but relative performance. There is a big difference.

[Devils8780]

I think Acie Law was simply a better player than Gillespie is a coach. Talk about leveraging a marquee player for a great new job.

While I agree that it's still early, and he shouldn't be judged after a handful of games, Cats fans have reason to be concerned. If Patterson bolts after one, he'll really be criticized if his recruiting doesn't compensate...

[loran16]

Mind you, i'm young (a Junior here at Duke currently), but i don't get the fascination with kentucky among some duke fans (and thus why this thread is so long on our board).

Yes, laettner made all kentucky fans hate duke for life, but seriously, i think of it like maryland....they hate us, but why should we even bother hating them. It's not worth it.

UNC is our rival. Maryland isn't our rival, but its probably 2nd on the list. Kentucky's no where close. If they choose to hate us, that sucks for them, but i get no satisfaction in kentucky losing, and don't get why duke fans do.

(Of note, i think gillepsie will get UK up to a reasonable standard soon enough, personally, i dont think acie law was entirely responsible for the great game A&M played the last 2 years.)

[SeattleIrish]

I'm quite aware of the anger UK fans still hold for Duke, but I'm with Loran - I don't root hard enough againt them for it to be a "rivalry".

My ex-father-in-law (very good guy and a HUGE Kentucky fan) once asked me how Duke fans, "felt about the rivalry with Kentucky?" I hadn't even intended it as an insult when out of my mouth popped, "What rivalry?". As soon as I said it I started apologizing and ensuring him it was not meantto be a slam. He then said, "That's what's worst...I believe you when you said you weren't joking!" Then I felt like dirt.

Anyway, I'm with Loran16...ain't a rivalry to me (although I actually felt rivalrous towards Maryland about 5-6 years back...I was rooting for a loss EVERY time they played. But that didn't seem to span enough time to count as a real "rivalry").

s.i.



Mind you, i'm young (a Junior here at Duke currently), but i don't get the fascination with kentucky among some duke fans (and thus why this thread is so long on our board).

Yes, laettner made all kentucky fans hate duke for life, but seriously, i think of it like maryland....they hate us, but why should we even bother hating them. It's not worth it.

UNC is our rival. Maryland isn't our rival, but its probably 2nd on the list. Kentucky's no where close. If they choose to hate us, that sucks for them, but i get no satisfaction in kentucky losing, and don't get why duke fans do.

(Of note, i think gillepsie will get UK up to a reasonable standard soon enough, personally, i dont think acie law was entirely responsible for the great game A&M played the last 2 years.)

[RP_McMurphy]

To put it succinctly if you don't understand the fascination you aren't really a long term College Basketball fan. Kentucky and Duke over their last three NCAA games are exactly tied in a grand total of 125 minutes of action. Kentucky and Duke have played all time great NCAA games between two top level programs. Both are top 5 programs (Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, Duke and Indiana......no KU as they haven't performed in title games like the others) and compete for alot of the same recruits (Duhon, Brand, Avery, etc.). So it is natural for both programs to talk about the other. To say there isn't a rivalry does not show one's College Basketball IQ well. No it's not a Duke-UNC, Kentucky-Louisville rivalry but there is one and when both teams play any College Basketball fan worth his or her salt stops and watches the game. Here's a good link to describe the action and rivalry with lots of information and historic pictures.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/rivalDuke.html

[SeattleIrish]

RP:

Do you consider Duke = UCLA to be a rivalry? Indiana = UNC a rivalry?

Those would be great games and I'd surely watch them, but I don't consider either to be a "rivalry". Yes, Duke and UK have certainly had some wonderful games, some of the finest in all of college basketball. However, to me the opportunities are too few to constitute a "rivalry", any more than saying Duke and MSU have a "rivalry" because they've played some tough contests.

s.i.

p.s. - is it possible that reasonable fellow DBR posters can disagree regarding this wonderful matchup without the conversation turning to slurs on one's "fan-ness" or basketball IQ? Your post gave me something to consider, and I'm glad you posted, but I think it would have been even more effective minus the attacks.

p.s.s. - I feel a rivalry when I'm rooting for a team to lose almost any time they play, such as with UNC, Maryland for a few years there, or any of the Florida schools in football (that's a personal one). I don't root for Kentucky to lose every game; in fact, I root for them frequently when they're playing inter-conference games.
:)

To put it succinctly if you don't understand the fascination you aren't really a long term College Basketball fan. Kentucky and Duke over their last three NCAA games are exactly tied in a grand total of 125 minutes of action. Kentucky and Duke have played all time great NCAA games between two top level programs. Both are top 5 programs (Kentucky, UNC, UCLA, Duke and Indiana......no KU as they haven't performed in title games like the others) and compete for alot of the same recruits (Duhon, Brand, Avery, etc.). So it is natural for both programs to talk about the other. To say there isn't a rivalry does not show one's College Basketball IQ well. No it's not a Duke-UNC, Kentucky-Louisville rivalry but there is one and when both teams play any College Basketball fan worth his or her salt stops and watches the game. Here's a good link to describe the action and rivalry with lots of information and historic pictures.

http://www.bigbluehistory.net/bb/rivalDuke.html

[killerleft]

I consider Duke-Kentucky a rivalry. As mentioned earlier, we have played some great games, and the games are always important.

Kentucky fans (well, the unreasonable ones, at least) purely hate us. We don't like them. They wear our colors (very close, anyway).

Do teams have to play each other a lot to be rivals? I don't think so. Both are elite national powers with some mirror match-ups. Laettner beat one of KY's most popular teams with The Shot. Kentucky beat one of our most popular using Givens as the foil.

I can see the other point of view, of course. But we come across as snotty sometimes in defending that view.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Mind you, i'm young (a Junior here at Duke currently), but i don't get the fascination with kentucky among some duke fans (and thus why this thread is so long on our board).

Yes, laettner made all kentucky fans hate duke for life, but seriously, i think of it like maryland....they hate us, but why should we even bother hating them. It's not worth it.

UNC is our rival. Maryland isn't our rival, but its probably 2nd on the list. Kentucky's no where close. If they choose to hate us, that sucks for them, but i get no satisfaction in kentucky losing, and don't get why duke fans do.

(Of note, i think gillepsie will get UK up to a reasonable standard soon enough, personally, i dont think acie law was entirely responsible for the great game A&M played the last 2 years.)

One of the great things about this board is that we can all learn more about our favorite team. While I have followed Duke basketball since Art Heyman enrolled (1959), I've loved reading accounts of those who have the privilege of seeing Dick Groat and other earlier greats play.

I'm not going back into my record books to quantify this one, but will say simply that Kentucky is a longterm nemesis for Duke in the NCAA tournaments, especially the Final Four. Over the course of Duke basketball history, Kentucky has been responsible for more Duke losses in the Final Four, especially the final game, than I care to count. Some have been real tear jerkers like the 1978 game when Bill Foster's Cinderella team lost a closely contested game.... at least it was close until near the end. It's felt as if Kentucky has blocked more of Duke's NCAA runs than any other single team....... whether the numbers support this or not, that's how many of us have felt. Being able to beat Kentucky in an NCAA tournament was a block that had to be overcome.... and was.

On a more personal level, I met a guy from Kentucky a few years ago, graduate of Washington and Lee plus some advanced degrees from impressive universities... a great resume. He was well educated, had held high level public office, we had similar interests.... the situation seemed promising until he mentioned that in Kentucky they call our blue "Puke Blue."

[jimsumner]

"Over the course of Duke basketball history, Kentucky has been responsible for more Duke losses in the Final Four, especially the final game, than I care to count."

Um, that would be two losses in the Final Four, one in the title game. The two programs have met fiive times in the NCAA, Duke winning twice.

FWIW, there are historically six great college basketball programs. There is no reason to exclude Kansas, a program that is third in total wins, has two titles, 12 Final Fours and hosts of great college players and coaches. Kansas has as much claim as Duke or Indiana to be in the historic elite.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

"Over the course of Duke basketball history, Kentucky has been responsible for more Duke losses in the Final Four, especially the final game, than I care to count."

Um, that would be two losses in the Final Four, one in the title game. The two programs have met fiive times in the NCAA, Duke winning twice.

FWIW, there are historically six great college basketball programs. There is no reason to exclude Kansas, a program that is third in total wins, has two titles, 12 Final Fours and hosts of great college players and coaches. Kansas has as much claim as Duke or Indiana to be in the historic elite.

Jim, I know you have such a great command of Duke basketball lore and history that you can tell me this: Which team has Duke faced most often in the NCAA? Perceptions sometimes overtake facts.... it's been a perception among fans that Kentucky has been that team.... but maybe not!

Great article on Jon and the role of the sixth man!
Thanks!

[SilkyJ]

San Diego... the same San Diego that was 6-8 coming into the game and rated #162 by Sagarin. The same San Diego that has lost to Stephen F Austin.

Oh, and the game was at Kentucky.

Whew...

--Jason "Hey PP, think ya might have made a tiny mistake?" Evans

the only thing funnier than this is the fact that when I read the thread title, I thought you meant Kentucky FOOTBALL in their bowl game. I don't even care about college FB that much, but UK is so irrelevant in bball right now and i guess cause they were pretty good in FB this year I immediately thought of football.

love that lightbulb joke too, btw...whoever posted it.

[Devilsfan]

I wonder how much Billy's buyout clause is?

[Acymetric]

Since someone mentioned football...anyone think Rich Rod is going to end up with similar treatment from Michigan fans next year? If I was Michigan I would be less than excited about him coming to my school, and a lot of the talent is leaving...

[GoDukeDevils]

Valid question but considering there isnt even a signed contract at this point, there is no buy out clause.

[GoDukeDevils]

Since someone mentioned football...anyone think Rich Rod is going to end up with similar treatment from Michigan fans next year? If I was Michigan I would be less than excited about him coming to my school, and a lot of the talent is leaving...

I think UM fans will love Rodriguez. He has been gold at every program he has ever been to (Glenville State, Tulane, Clemson and WVU) -- he made a Tulane QB a Heisman candidate.

UM has a solid QB that redshirted this year and apparently the recruit out of Texas is the real deal.

[Classof06]

Maryland is definitely one of our rivals. In fact, they just swept us last year. I, for one, am eagerly awaiting a chance at revenge this year...

[wilson]

Sorry to be so late to this party (I've been traveling, etc.), but I felt compelled to post in this thread because I was at the UK-San Diego game.
I was/am here in Kentucky visiting my girlfriend and her family, and a couple of tickets fell into their lap. They sent the two of us because I "needed to see Rupp." I did the nice thing, donned an unadorned blue polo shirt, and most definitely did not take my Duke hat along.
Especially considering the season UK is having and the size of the arena, the place was remarkably full, and people seemed genuinely excited (presumably because they really thought they had a good shot to win). I, on the other hand, got a kick out of laughing on the inside and knowing that, if I had a death wish, I could have instantly fulfilled it with any of a number of pairs of words. Standing in the restroom line, I got a brief twinge of terror that someone would somehow find out who I really was and that I'd pay dearly.

Game thoughts: UK has good personnel. Ramel Bradley and PP especially are good players, but the team as it stands now is not at all well-coached. The halfcourt offense is a mess. Though Patterson was clearly the best player in the building, he does not get a lot of touches. When he does get the ball, he plays intelligently and powerfully. He should touch the ball just about every time Kentucky has it, and that their offensive game plan does not revolve around him is mystifying. That said, he is not the would-be low post savior that some folks around here have made him out to be. His is a high-low game; he really likes (and can hit) the outside shot. He is strong and athletic, but he doesn't play especially big (they have him listed at 6'8"), and he certainly doesn't play a traditional back-to-the-basket inside game. He'd of course be a great addition to any team, but the missing power forward, he is not. Their halfcourt offense also suffers from poor communication. There were several instances in which they simply got the wires crossed and threw the ball away, or off a teammate's back, or something equally embarrassing.
Kentucky's team defense is also bad. San Diego made it look worse than it probably is with a couple of remarkable shooting performances (I think they shot better on threes than from the field overall), but UK does not pressure the ball especially well, they do not cooperate defensively, and their defensive responses to changing situations are not especially intelligent. I recall a particular sequence in which USD's diminutive point guard (#1, I don't remember his name), who threw up 25 points on the day, beat four UK defenders on a press, including two men at the halfcourt line in a trap. The UK players honestly looked like they were standing still.
Finally, UK also lacks intensity and passion. The whole thing felt like a meaningless game, though to the folks in the stands, it was anything but. On a day when Rupp really wanted to get behind the team and get wild, the team did nothing to make the fans do so. Even with five minutes remaining, UK was still in the game and they made a few good plays in a row, raising the energy level in the building a bit. Then, with even that hint of tension, they completely fell apart, making several consecutive turnovers and then sinking into bad shots and a lot of ill-advised one-on-one play.
I left the building with the impression that UK really isn't as far off as some might think (again, I think they have some good players), but they suffer now from a total lack of confidence, and there seems to be no semblance whatsoever of a comprehensive game plan or team philosophy. If recruiting begins to suffer, they could really be in trouble, because my assessment of Gillispie is that with regard to pure coaching ability, he is in over his head.

Sorry for such a long post.

[captmojo]

No need to apologize for being long-winded. Good report. I'm glad you got out of Rupp in one piece. They need to get over it. They aren't on Duke's schedule so they should concentrate on what they have to do to get better and survive the wars in their own conference, before they have any considerations of an appearance against the Devils.

[RP_McMurphy]

Is that certain players on Kentucky haven't bought into the team concept of Billy G. Kentucky has tried to build the offense around Patterson but with the injuries to Derrick Jasper and Jodie Meeks it has been very tough to get any offensive flow yet. Defensively Kentucky lacks foot speed and is not very quick. Tubby did not recruit well his last three years and what talent he brought in is mismatched. That said get Kentucky now as Kentucky has talent coming in and will get even more with Billy G's hard work as a relentless recruiter. He is by no ways over matched and will turn Kentucky around quickly. In three years we will all laugh that we had this discussion about Kentucky.

[wilson]

Is that certain players on Kentucky haven't bought into the team concept of Billy G. Kentucky has tried to build the offense around Patterson but with the injuries to Derrick Jasper and Jodie Meeks it has been very tough to get any offensive flow yet. Defensively Kentucky lacks foot speed and is not very quick. Tubby did not recruit well his last three years and what talent he brought in is mismatched. That said get Kentucky now as Kentucky has talent coming in and will get even more with Billy G's hard work as a relentless recruiter. He is by no ways over matched and will turn Kentucky around quickly. In three years we will all laugh that we had this discussion about Kentucky.

Point taken about Meeks and Jasper...injuries haven't helped this team. But one thing that I forgot to mention is that everyone around here wants to blame everything from the latest loss to global warming on Tubby, which is just silly. You can't in the same breath talk about missing good players who are hurt and then say Tubby left the cupboard bare. UK's recent struggles may not be all Gillispie's fault, but they certainly aren't Tubby's fault.

[RP_McMurphy]

Billy G. has one player on the team and he is leading in scoring and rebounding. Tubby is helluva nice guy who I would trust with my bank account but in the end I couldn't trust him with my basketball program (it's the fans program as coaches and players come with time.......only the fans stay).

For instance in 2004 Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina and Kansas were all in a heated battle for one Tyler Hansborough. In late July of that year in Shawnee Kansas he was in a AAU tourney. Living in the Kansas City area I choose to attend that tourney one night to watch him and let him see Kentucky fans noticing him. Well I get there and check to see the coaches. Well I see Quinn Snyder, a UNC assistant and yes Bill Self. Kentucky didn't have Tubby there or a assistant there. Here was their numero uno target for the year and they couldn't get a coach there or didn't want to get a coach there. Either way Kentucky should have had someone there every night of the tournament........Like Roy or not but when he locks down a recruit......that recruit knows it and is never ignored. There are many other stories out there like this where Tubby didn't show up for recruits games when he had the chance or didn't send a assistant to cover for him.

[YmoBeThere]

I couldn't trust him with my basketball program (it's the fans program as coaches and players come with time.......only the fans stay).

Wow, a very frightening comment. Actually fans come and go and are quite fickle.

[RP_McMurphy]

Is it frightening for fans to have a involvement in the program concerning it's quality of play? Is it frightening that when Kentucky fans saw the program going downhill that we said something? We know what excellence in basketball is and isn't. Every coach should know that and know that we will drive them. Jeff Sheppard once said it oh so correctly when it comes to Kentucky fans "You can use them to drive you or you can use them to drive you crazy". Tubby used them to drive him crazy when we could and would have been on his side if he hadn't let the program slide.



Wow, a very frightening comment. Actually fans come and go and are quite fickle.

[YmoBeThere]

Your thoughts reveal much to me about the mindset that creates a situation where coaches demand, get, and then walk away from multi-million dollar contracts that make them the highest paid employees at a state level.

And yes, I do believe this is part of the problem of college sports today.

[dukie8]

Is it frightening for fans to have a involvement in the program concerning it's quality of play? Is it frightening that when Kentucky fans saw the program going downhill that we said something? We know what excellence in basketball is and isn't. Every coach should know that and know that we will drive them. Jeff Sheppard once said it oh so correctly when it comes to Kentucky fans "You can use them to drive you or you can use them to drive you crazy". Tubby used them to drive him crazy when we could and would have been on his side if he hadn't let the program slide.

you have to get over yourself. it is the SCHOOL'S program -- not the fans. the fans have ZERO invested in a program other than freely electing to spend their free time following it. as previously noted, fans come and go all the time. did you ever go to CIS in, say, february of 1995?

you make it sound like kentucky fans have some elite unique ability to identify excellence in basketball. do you actually believe that? do you actually believe that fans at any other school don't know what a final 4 or a nc is? please. kentucky fans may be rabid and intense but give me a break if you think that they have some superior ability to sniff out "excellence in basketball." the bottom line is that tubby was getting paid a ton of money and couldn't get a whiff of the final 4 or a nc for a decade.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

you have to get over yourself. it is the SCHOOL'S program -- not the fans. the fans have ZERO invested in a program other than freely electing to spend their free time following it. as previously noted, fans come and go all the time.

You have made an important distinction for all of us to keep in mind. The teams we choose to support provide us entertainment, great entertainment at that. It's a pleasure to follow someone who's successful, but the test of such interest comes when the team is not as successful as we dreamed they would be. The experience of working with young people for decades causes me to remember that the players out there on the court or the playing field are just that: young people still in formative stages of their journey to become full fledged adults.

Call me idealist...... I consider it a compliment!

[RP_McMurphy]

Rick Pitino said it correctly after the 96 National Championship game. "We are like the Green Bay Packers as the entire state owns our program". The fans buy the tickets, watch the tv, provide the donations and support the program thru the downtimes. So yes it is the fans program and will always be that way.


you have to get over yourself. it is the SCHOOL'S program -- not the fans. the fans have ZERO invested in a program other than freely electing to spend their free time following it. as previously noted, fans come and go all the time. did you ever go to CIS in, say, february of 1995?

you make it sound like kentucky fans have some elite unique ability to identify excellence in basketball. do you actually believe that? do you actually believe that fans at any other school don't know what a final 4 or a nc is? please. kentucky fans may be rabid and intense but give me a break if you think that they have some superior ability to sniff out "excellence in basketball." the bottom line is that tubby was getting paid a ton of money and couldn't get a whiff of the final 4 or a nc for a decade.

[Acymetric]

Rick Pitino said it correctly after the 96 National Championship game. "We are like the Green Bay Packers as the entire state owns our program". The fans buy the tickets, watch the tv, provide the donations and support the program thru the downtimes. So yes it is the fans program and will always be that way.

Exactly. The main goal of college athletics is to make money/gain publicity (thats what I gather at least). Who's giving them money? Well their sponsors, but their sponsors only donate because FANS watch. Plus fans buy merch, buy tickets, send in donations (a la the Iron Dukes, and anyone else that sends in a donation without being affiliated). The fans aren't the only owners of the team, but they certainly have a stake in it.

[YmoBeThere]

Exactly. The main goal of college athletics is to make money/gain publicity (thats what I gather at least). Who's giving them money? Well their sponsors, but their sponsors only donate because FANS watch. Plus fans buy merch, buy tickets, send in donations (a la the Iron Dukes, and anyone else that sends in a donation without being affiliated). The fans aren't the only owners of the team, but they certainly have a stake in it.

Well, using this logic, I could claim ownership rights if the university gets money from the federal government which in turn may or may not give money to the university which may or may not use some of that money to support the athletic programs. Since this is potentially the case, I think we ought to shut down the Kentucky basketball program...I mean it is grossly underperforming expectations. (Any claims from fans have the same tenuous lines of ownership.)

And as a matter of fact, Pitino's analogy is off. The Green Bay Packers are a publicly owned corporation with shareholders, just ask their transfer agent. The University of Kentucky isn't...though I wish it were because I would be covering my short about now.

[jimsumner]

"the bottom line is that tubby was getting paid a ton of money and couldn't get a whiff of the final 4 or a nc for a decade."

Wouldn't losing a regional final in two overtimes qualify as a whiff of the Final Four?

[YmoBeThere]

Ummm, looks like UK lost to Louisville. Next up is my other alma mater, which has played a relatively weak schedule so far. Of course Pomerory ranks UK's SOS at 128, Vandy's at 140 but has picked the 6-7 UK to win.

[RelativeWays]

At this rate, we may want to change the thread title to "Kentucky beat who?!?!?!" Also, I thought Tubby was the UK coach when they won the NC in 98. Pitino was in Boston at that time.

[mgtr]

All this back and forth reminds me of the academic argument that students come and go, but the faculty remains, and therefore the university should be run for the benefit of the faculty -- and many are.

[juise]

The 'Cats are up 10 on undefeated Vandy at half. Patterson with 14 points on 5-7 shooting. The shooting percentages look similar, bu Kentucky has more shots. Vandy must be turning it over. The game's at Rupp, so UK may hold on.

[YmoBeThere]

I think Vandy turned it over 10 times in the first half. They didn't look good which could be attributed to the Wildcats defense. Mainly, I think Vandy isn't showing any patience on the offensive end...

It should be noted that Vandy made it this far undefeated on a schedule that wouldn't be considered very difficult(100+ in Pomeroy's rankings).

[DevilAlumna]

Go 'Dores -- they've cut it to 2 with 1:38 to go....

[DevilAlumna]

Going to double OT -- heck of a game!

EDIT: UK held on, wins 79-73. One more undefeated team goes down.

Looks like UCLA is going to take down another, Wash State. Hmm, maybe Nebraska can knock off the Jayhawks later today? (Hey, a cornhusker girl can hope.)

[YmoBeThere]

Kentucky outlasted Vandy 79-73 in double OT

[Karl Beem]

Both teams played poorly down the stretch.

[JasonEvans]

Remember, every time Kentucky wins, it makes Gardner Webb and San Diego look that much better ;)

Congrats to the Wildcats on getting back to that elusive .500 mark on their season.

I am actually rooting for Kentucky to do kinda well in the SEC as their success in conference following their abject failure in non-conference games only makes the SEC look bad.

-Jason "by the way, Gardner Webb is currently 8-10 with losses to Radford, Charleston Southern, Belmont, and the feared South Carolina Upstate (who???)" Evans

[RP_McMurphy]

Both were new coaches first big signature win over a ranked opponent. Both were large early Kentucky leads that Kentucky held onto down the stretch. FYI the LSU team had Shaq, Stanley Roberts and Chris Jackson. Kentucky had well Reggie Hanson and the Unforgettables plus Derrick Miller. In three years people will be laughing at themselves for ever thinking Kentucky was down for good.

[YmoBeThere]

In three years people will be laughing at themselves for ever thinking Kentucky was down for good.

Having participated in this thread a bit, I will say I don't recall anyone saying Kentucky was down for good.

[billybreen]

Good game. Kentucky looks slightly less lost than they did earlier in the season, but they are off to a very rocky start in the Gillespie era.

[365Duke]

if I have ever seen a game where the last 21 out of 24 pts. of a game come from the FF line, good game to the wire though.

By the way Billy G. just reminds me of somebody that time traveled from the 1920's. He just needs a girl with a Flapper dress doing the Charleston beside him on the bench.:p

[billybreen]

Kentucky loses, 69-64.

[billybreen]

By the way Billy G. just reminds me of somebody that time traveled from the 1920's. He just needs a girl with a Flapper dress doing the Charleston beside him on the bench.:p

His beady eyes make me want to punch him in the face. Or the groin. Or both.

[dukie8]

did he ever sign a contract?

[365Duke]

and he may be under the tommy gun:D

[ugadevil]

If he didn't sign a contract, and they go on to fire him at the end of the season, wouldn't that be a huge red flag for future coaches? Why go to a school where you have to audition for a year and run the risk of never gaining the support of the university?

[RP_McMurphy]

MOU (memorandum of understanding) as it appears he didn't coach at Texas A&M with a contract either. Guess he doesn't like to paint himself into corners with contracts. Most Kentucky fans realize this year is a transistion year with the talent level low especially in the front court (Patterson and a bunch of nobodies). Next year will be better as Kentucky brings in two top level small forwards in Liggins and Miller. It will be a 2-3 year process to up the talent and rebuild the program.

[allenmurray]

and he may be under the tommy gun:D

isn't that the tubby gun?

[NYD33]

Watched this one til the end. Patterson is a force on the boards and would have been a nice addition. Some very stupid fouls though. And they could have called a few more on him if they had wanted. The triple double by Varnado was impressive.

[KenTankerous]

I am not your typical UK fan, I thought Tubby was a great coach and should have had a lot more support. I think the search for Tubby's replacement opened a lot of eyes to the fact that elite coaches are not going to risk coming to this program unless things, especially the fan and media attitudes change.

Gillespie is doing a pretty good job in the transition. I think he has the fan and media benefit of the doubt at the moment. He is recruiting some good talent. If he can coach them into winners, I think he will get the support he needs from the fans, media and program to rebuild UK into a contender again.

But the days of dominating the SEC for years on end are done. There are too many good programs in the SEC, and around the country, to expect anything more than a couple of elite players every other year to sign with Kentucky.

On the Ole Miss game - I thought it was a better effort than I have seen most of the year. It is a let down after Saturday's win over Vandy. But these are the Cardiac Cats and we have come to expect the rollercoaster they drag us on twice a week.

[BlueDevilJay]

Hey Ken, my wife is also a HUGE UK fan as well, guess you probably don't care but I thought I should point it out :) She was born between Lexington and Louisville up until we met and started dating, and I moved her back down here to NC.

She absolutely HATED Tubby Smith for some reason, and was happy to see him go, but now can hardly remember Gillespie's name. I watched most of the game the other night, and I'd say UK is a few recruits and a couple of years away from being relevant in the top 25 again, just my personal opinion.

[dynastydefender]

Yes you are correct. BG is losing with Tubby's players like Tubby won (regional final Against Duke) the Championship in 98 with Pitino's players. Yeah this season sucks but every team rebuilds.

[Lavabe]

Yes you are correct. BG is losing with Tubby's players like Tubby won (regional final Against Duke) the Championship in 98 with Pitino's players. Yeah this season sucks but every team rebuilds.

This sounds an awful lot like UGA, when Tubby left. UGA bombed w/Tubby's players, sans Tubby. UGADEVIL: Jersa took over for a short time, then Harrick took over. Isn't that correct?

Lavabe

[dynastydefender]

Isn't it sad? We waited so long to make it back to prominence and now we are on a 10 year drought. Patience Patience Patience.

[dynastydefender]

Remember, every time Kentucky wins, it makes Gardner Webb and San Diego look that much better ;)

Congrats to the Wildcats on getting back to that elusive .500 mark on their season.

I am actually rooting for Kentucky to do kinda well in the SEC as their success in conference following their abject failure in non-conference games only makes the SEC look bad.

-Jason "by the way, Gardner Webb is currently 8-10 with losses to Radford, Charleston Southern, Belmont, and the feared South Carolina Upstate (who???)" Evans
This sounds like I'm making an excuse but here goes...

Kentucky's Practice regimen never included a full practice before a game. BG brought that to the Program. The Players were not used to that kind of physicality. They lost thier endurance down the stretch early on but as you can see by a few key wins of late there is a long term payoff here.

[77devil]

Isn't it sad? We waited so long to make it back to prominence and now we are on a 10 year drought. Patience Patience Patience.

Not sad at all.

[dynastydefender]

Fair enough...Just remember Duke is #4 on the All times Win List. Carolina #2 and Kentucky #1. That stat transcends any single season success or failure.



I watched most of the 1st half, and all of the 2nd half.

Kentucky is LUCKY they have Patterson. He looks to be their whole team at times. He would look alot better in a Duke uni though :).

People, I understand alot of you are upset that he went to Kentucky. However, Its not like he played Duke or mislead them. Coach K thought he was a wonderful person and usually Coach K wont misjudge character.

I dont believe Tubby Smith left them in THAT BAD of shape.

Players not returning

Lukasz Obrzut (Graduated)
Bobby Perry (Graduated)
Sheray Thomas (Graduated)
Randolph Morris (Early NBA)

A couple of those players hurt. The recruiting did a good job of replacing those guys. Im not sure if Billy is struggling at Kentucky. Something just isnt right.

Ohh, And I really dislike Kentucky. :) I hope they lose everygame. Not the players though. Just the program

[Mike Corey]

Does it?

Rome's past dominance is no solace to Italy's woes today, is it?

[dynastydefender]

I remember Exactly the moment K put on a set of headphones and told the entire state how honored he was to be a part of the game and how Kentucky should not be ashamed. Very Bold and very classy. I watch the game every now and then. It still tears my heart out. I was a fan when those unforgettables took the court for a 15 and 15 season in 1989. Followed them through theier "Kiss our Asterisk" seasons where if they were not on probation they would have ran away with the SEC. Then the first year we come off probation we go deep into the tournament. Well if you watched Beyond the Glory you know the other side of the story. The best was yet to come. Not to sound disrespectful to you but have you ever re-watched the 1998 tournament match-up between UK and Duke? What are your thoughts on that?


I just finished watching Duke-UK 1992, again. My dad was here, and he has been periodically reporting back to me that the sentiment in KY, from KY fans, is still a searing, white-hot hatred of Duke in general and Laettner in particular. We've even discussed the "stomp" and how each side sees it differently. He got to see it again and agreed, it wasn't much of a stomp. Maybe if he swung at the guys jaw with a clenched fist, you eject him, but not for a little jabbing kick.

What a great game. You know, you look at the score and the shooting percentages and you figure that by the numbers, it wasn't much of a defensive game. But the defense was intense - the offense(s) just overcame it. So many shots just went in. Shots that maybe go in 25% of the time - they were going in 75% of the time.

I suppose KY fans never watch the game again, so they probably don't see that pretty much the first thing K says is what a great team Kentucky is. This is after he ran down Coach Pitino to shake his hand, and a UK player too. If any Dukies lurk on the UK message boards, they ought to put what coach K said about them in their sig line. I don't think they remember how gracious K was, and they probably need reminding. It need not be such a hate. Rivalry yes, but it can be carried with dignity, such as that of Tony Lang who was hugging/congratulating many of the KY guys afterwards, such as Mashburn.

I love our team this year, and they could win a lot of games. But I don't think they can win it all until they can at least rebound on par with their better opponents, i.e., ones they would face in the tourney. Either that or bring up the FT% a lot. But both can't be below avg. for a team that otherwise could go far. That '92 team could rebound.

[dynastydefender]

Rome is not a country anymore.

[Mike Corey]

Rome was never a country.

But it was a superpower, as Kentucky once was.

Rome can claim superlatives throughout the course of history, and titles such as, "The greatest empire in the history of the world."

But does that matter anymore to contemporary Rome--or the nation in which it resides? Perhaps to tourism and national pride, as does Kentucky's past success for the Wildcat faithful.

But does it serve as a fulcrum upon which to leverage an argument about a program's contemporary status?

I think not.

[DukieInKansas]

Rome is not a country anymore.

Don't tell that to a Roman! They still identify by their city-states and not so much as Italians. (As I learned when I called my sister-in-law Italian. She is Roman.)

[dynastydefender]

Rome was never a country.

But it was a superpower, as Kentucky once was.

Rome can claim superlatives throughout the course of history, and titles such as, "The greatest empire in the history of the world."

But does that matter anymore to contemporary Rome--or the nation in which it resides? Perhaps to tourism and national pride, as does Kentucky's past success for the Wildcat faithful.

But does it serve as a fulcrum upon which to leverage an argument about a program's contemporary status?

I think not.
I did not get on here to debate the dominance of either team. Stats are Stats. Also it is possible, in the present, to gather empirical evidence to compare and contrast the two programs in the same venue. You have me at a disadvantage ONLY because of the 2007-2008 record of wins and losses for Duke and Kentucky. If the opposite was true I don't believe you would digress into a tangential issue. This is about College Basketball. When did you graduate from Duke? If you went to Duke in 1997 I have a story for you.

SPQR!!

[dynastydefender]

Not sad at all.
Oh yeah...Very Sad.

[77devil]

have you ever re-watched the 1998 tournament match-up between UK and Duke?

No. But I did attend the tip-off classic and the regional semi in Rupp, the season in which Kentucky lost its first and last game to Duke.

p.s. Thier is spelled their.

[Mike Corey]

I did not get on here to debate the dominance of either team. Stats are Stats. Also it is possible, in the present, to gather empirical evidence to compare and contrast the two programs in the same venue. You have me at a disadvantage ONLY because of the 2007-2008 record of wins and losses for Duke and Kentucky. If the opposite was true I don't believe you would digress into a tangential issue. This is about College Basketball. When did you graduate from Duke? If you went to Duke in 1997 I have a story for you.

SPQR!!

I've raised a historical scenario to make a point, not to create a tangential issue.

This is indeed about college basketball, and your attempts at "defendingdynasty." I applaud your loyalty, I think it's a beautiful thing.

Your argument appears to be that because of Kentucky's historic success, seasons such as the current one are anomalous and, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.

But of course, your use of "all-time wins" as a trump card to any conversation about the health of a program is a feeble one.

Trend lines are far more valuable.

Consider the past 5 years, and you'll have a far more accurate idea of the direction of a program.

For example: Would a Navy football fan be wise to argue that the Midshipmen program is healthy because of its successes in the '40s and '50s? Or would a Navy football fan be wise to argue that the Midshipmen program is healthy because of its successes in the past five seasons?

Consider the past 100 years, and you'll have skewed results in this kind of analysis. That all leads to the question: Why would a program's all-time wins be an accurate barometer of a program's contemporary health?

[dynastydefender]

Darn Spell checker!! LOL

[dynastydefender]

I've raised a historical scenario to make a point, not to create a tangential issue.

This is indeed about college basketball, and your attempts at "defendingdynasty." I applaud your loyalty, I think it's a beautiful thing.

Your argument appears to be that because of Kentucky's historic success, seasons such as the current one are anomalous and, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant.

But of course, your use of "all-time wins" as a trump card to any conversation about the health of a program is a feeble one.

Trend lines are far more valuable.

Consider the past 5 years, and you'll have a far more accurate idea of the direction of a program.

For example: Would a Navy football fan be wise to argue that the Midshipmen program is healthy because of its successes in the '40s and '50s? Or would a Navy football fan be wise to argue that the Midshipmen program is healthy because of its successes in the past five seasons?

Consider the past 100 years, and you'll have skewed results in this kind of analysis. That all leads to the question: Why would a program's all-time wins be an accurate barometer of a program's contemporary health?
Oh I agree wholeheartedly. The Stats Tubby Smith put up in the 10 years he was coach, if annotated on a spreadsheet, would show the nose dive of Kentucky Basketball under his watch. So UK is in it's "trough" in it's Band of Excellence.

Who is arguing? Not Trumping anyone. I said that the overall stat for victories "transcends any single season success or failure." There are other stats I can show you from NCAA.org to back up my point. This will be an ongoing contest for as long as UK and Duke field Basketball teams.

[dynastydefender]

No. But I did attend the tip-off classic and the regional semi in Rupp, the season in which Kentucky lost its first and last game to Duke.

p.s. Thier is spelled their.
Were you THERE in 78? :)

[Mike Corey]

I said that the overall stat for victories "transcends any single season success or failure."

Or any ten-season stretch, apparently.

;)

Best of luck to you and yours, DD.

In truth, the world of college basketball is a lot more interesting when the Wildcats are competitive. I sincerely hope that day comes right soon, for your sake and for the sake of college basketball.

[dynastydefender]

Or any ten-season stretch, apparently.

;)

Best of luck to you and yours, DD.

In truth, the world of college basketball is a lot more interesting when the Wildcats are competitive. I sincerely hope that day comes right soon, for your sake and for the sake of college basketball.
Stay tuned for that!! You have inspired me to create a new Avatar. ;)

[Mike Corey]

Stay tuned for that!! You have inspired me to create a new Avatar. ;)

Hm....a picture of Romulus and Remus suckling at the teat of a wolf, perhaps?

[77devil]

Were you THERE in 78? :)

So predictable and their is still spelled thier in your closing.

[KenTankerous]

Geez you two, we are talking about Duke versus UK and I haven't read a single s**k, stoopid or retard?!?!? Dayum, the arguments are declining as fast as the game...

It's actually very refreshing to come to a board where discussion can heat up without melting down.

MC makes a valid point that past success, especially far removed triumphs, do nothing to indicate the current state of the program. If anything, they point out how far things have fallen.

Yet DD's relying on tradition to help pull in the recruits and support we need to right the ship is spot on one of the best things Kentucky has going for it.

Gillespie needs at least four years to prove how well he can recruit and mold these kids into a cohesive unit. I don't expect an NC in those years but a deep run is a must have for him to keep his memorandum of understanding with the fans.

Not to throw barbs or stir the pot but Duke's program isn't really Duke's program - it's Krzyzewski's. While Coach K is nurturing a nice system of inheritance for when he retires, it remains to be seen if Duke's success will live beyond Krzyzewski.

But Like MC says, college basketball is much more interesting when Kentucky is a powerhouse. Likewise, I hate to think of the game without a strong Duke presence. On the other hand, I could live with Florida deciding it really was just a football school.

[Johnboy]

So predictable and their is still spelled thier in your closing.

Is anyone else driven to grammar insanity by the title of this thread?

[KenTankerous]

I live in Louisville, excuse me, looavul, Kentucky. I'm happy there isn't a "done" after Kentucky.

[Johnboy]

Not to throw barbs or stir the pot but Duke's program isn't really Duke's program - it's Krzyzewski's. While Coach K is nurturing a nice system of inheritance for when he retires, it remains to be seen if Duke's success will live beyond Krzyzewski.


Not so fast, my friend. Duke didn't get to be the fourth winningest program EVER with just one coach. (See the proper use of that argument? :) )

While it's true that Duke has only won its NCAA titles with Coach K, it hass been to final fours with at least three different coaches (Bubas (3 times, IIRC), Foster and Krzyzewski).

[KenTankerous]

Mia Culpa, I was unaware of Duke's previous prowess. I suppose I should have googled that up before posting.

But an interesting correlating point is made on page two or three of this thread about the inherent difficulty in replacing a dynastic coach like Krzyzewski. I think that is from whence my thinking came.

[Lavabe]

Is anyone else driven to grammar insanity by the title of this thread?

A number of us are about to go INSANE!!!!!:eek:

Surely a moderator could address "who."

And Johnboy, I won't call you Shirley.:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Clipsfan]

Mia Culpa, I was unaware of Duke's previous prowess. I suppose I should have googled that up before posting.

But an interesting correlating point is made on page two or three of this thread about the inherent difficulty in replacing a dynastic coach like Krzyzewski. I think that is from whence my thinking came.

Yeah, I think that Duke had more than 1,200 wins at the time K became coach. But even if the program was successful before K, he has been brilliant as the coach (both on and off the court) and has helped build a phenomenal program that has true student-athletes (it's no coincidence that the new practice facility has a large academic center). I'm sure that Duke will attract a great coach once K retires (there are some sitting on the bench at the moment) but even so he'll leave big shoes to fill. He has been the best coach of the modern era, and that's a tough act to follow.

[dynastydefender]

God bless you man!!

[dynastydefender]

Hm....a picture of Romulus and Remus suckling at the teat of a wolf, perhaps?

I was thinking more of the Double Headed Eagle.

[JBDuke]

...
Surely a moderator could adress "who."....

Cheers,
Lavabe

Satisfied?

[dynastydefender]

Geez you two, we are talking about Duke versus UK and I haven't read a single s**k, stoopid or retard?!?!? Dayum, the arguments are declining as fast as the game...

It's actually very refreshing to come to a board where discussion can heat up without melting down.

MC makes a valid point that past success, especially far removed triumphs, do nothing to indicate the current state of the program. If anything, they point out how far things have fallen.

Yet DD's relying on tradition to help pull in the recruits and support we need to right the ship is spot on one of the best things Kentucky has going for it.

Gillespie needs at least four years to prove how well he can recruit and mold these kids into a cohesive unit. I don't expect an NC in those years but a deep run is a must have for him to keep his memorandum of understanding with the fans.

Not to throw barbs or stir the pot but Duke's program isn't really Duke's program - it's Krzyzewski's. While Coach K is nurturing a nice system of inheritance for when he retires, it remains to be seen if Duke's success will live beyond Krzyzewski.

But Like MC says, college basketball is much more interesting when Kentucky is a powerhouse. Likewise, I hate to think of the game without a strong Duke presence. On the other hand, I could live with Florida deciding it really was just a football school.
Kentank.....I believe I was talking to someone that couldn't be swayed by hard facts. He had me at a disadvantage because of UK and Duke's current season records. PLUS he didn't want to hear my 1997 story!!

Oh and my typo has been corrected!! Thanks for all that cared so deeply about it!!

[dynastydefender]

Is anyone else driven to grammar insanity by the title of this thread?
You know..the more I think about it....the way the thread title was crafted makes me uncomfortable!!

[Mike Corey]

Kentank.....I believe I was talking to someone that couldn't be swayed by hard facts.

There was nothing to sway to.

You presented a fact that is independent of the program's current standing.

Sorry, bud.

[dynastydefender]

There was nothing to sway to.

You presented a fact that is independent of the program's current standing.

Sorry, bud.
If you and I were talking on a CB radio I would say to you

"You got your ears on over there good buddy?

[dynastydefender]

There was nothing to sway to.

You presented a fact that is independent of the program's current standing.

Sorry, bud.
One more thing. Since you don't wish to hear my 1997 story I will empower you with a link that should empower you to learn about a different perspective. You seem to be a smart man so I will trust that you will take the opportunity to do some research. Heck...you may even want to buy the DVD!!!


http://www.ket.org/basketball/

[Lavabe]

Satisfied?

Almost ... while you're at it, could you correct my spelling of address?:o :D

I guess I've been reading to much greybeard. Maybe I need to stop using my iTouch!

Frankly, I thought you would have done: Kentucky lost to whom?

But seriously, thanks for all you do with the moderating.:)

Cheers,
Lavabe

[ugadevil]

I know the losing to Vandy isn't a big deal because Vanderbilt is the better team...but down 39-10 in the first half! WHOA!

Ok...now 41-11 at Halftime. The Cats have shot 3-15 from the field and 4-8 from the FT line. I say turrible.

[arydolphin]

Vanderbilt is beating Kentucky 41-11 at the half. Announcers said that the 11 points is Kentucky's worst half of basketball ever. Somehow I doubt that, but still, that's embarrassing.

[superdave]

I think Overtime on March 28, 1992 was Kentucky's worst half ever.

But tonight is probably in their Top 5.

[CDu]

With 14 minutes to go, Vandy's leading scorer was outscoring Kentucky's entire team (20-19).

It's a good thing for the Wildcats that the selection committee doesn't consider margin of victory, because Kentucky would be toast after this one.

[MulletMan]

I know the losing to Vandy isn't a big deal because Vanderbilt is the better team...but down 39-10 in the first half! WHOA!

Ok...now 41-11 at Halftime. The Cats have shot 3-15 from the field and 4-8 from the FT line. I say turrible.

15:58 2nd Half 1 2 T
Kentucky (12-9, 6-2 SEC) 11 3 14
(19)Vanderbilt (20-4, 5-4 SEC) 41 14 55


Shan Foster made Free Throw.
GameCast
Box Score
Play-by-Play
RealTime

UK VAN
Pts 2 tied at 4 Foster 18
Reb 3 tied at 2 Ogilvy 7






Bold added by me... yeesh!

[throatybeard]

62-23, 12m left. I bout crapped my pants when I saw that score.

[YmoBeThere]

As a Vandy alum, all I can ask is: How about them 'Dores?

[dukie8]

i have to think that this puts gillispie back on a very hot seat. that was disgraceful.

[GopherBlue]

UK’s futility started with Patterson. He had more fouls (three) than points (one) or rebounds (none) in the first half. He did not score until he hit a free throw with 1:15 left. The shot set the halftime score.

He-he-he . . . . Uh, I mean, good luck at UK! ;)

[mgtr]

He made his bed, now .....

[KenTankerous]

It's a good thing for the Wildcats that the selection committee doesn't consider margin of victory, because Kentucky would be toast after this one.

Selection committee?!?!? Are you serious? This Kentucky team isn't fit for the NIT. (Hell, they wouldn't get deep in the LIT*). Nothing short of winning the SEC can offset Gardner-Webb, San Diego and now this thrashing.


No amount of "tradition" can overcome this much suck.









*Louisville Invitational Tournament - Girl's High School basketball tournament.

[YmoBeThere]

Selection committee?!?!? Are you serious? This Kentucky team isn't fit for the NIT. (Hell, they wouldn't get deep in the LIT*). Nothing short of winning the SEC can offset Gardner-Webb, San Diego and now this thrashing.


No amount of "tradition" can overcome this much suck.

*Louisville Invitational Tournament - Girl's High School basketball tournament.

Your comments undercut the quality of this Vanderbilt team who UK edged out on their home court. Vandy also has as many Sweet 16 appearances in the last four years as Kentucky or Louisville.

[wilson]

No amount of "tradition" can overcome this much suck.


I think this is precisely the point Mike Corey was trying to make, which dynastydefender simply couldn't reconcile with "hard facts."

[dynastydefender]

That try men's souls. Go Cats!!

I see a Matt Daugherty parallel here. Gentlemen be patient. Plus I don't feel too bad. I don't know about you but the UK vs. Vandy game that I watched yesterday was on ESPN Classic! Remember UK and that last tenth of a second shot that won it? Who says I don't have hard facts? It was the worst SEC Loss in school History. It wasn't the worst. Someone please show me some love and tell me which loss that was and when? You might be able to see another parallel develop.

[dynastydefender]

That I got on my kid's computer and beat Vandy with UK 223 to 38.

:)



As a Vandy alum, all I can ask is: How about them 'Dores?

[pamtar]

No amount of "tradition" can overcome this much suck.

One-liner of the month! :D

[dynastydefender]

Selection committee?!?!? Are you serious? This Kentucky team isn't fit for the NIT. (Hell, they wouldn't get deep in the LIT*). Nothing short of winning the SEC can offset Gardner-Webb, San Diego and now this thrashing.


No amount of "tradition" can overcome this much suck.









*Louisville Invitational Tournament - Girl's High School basketball tournament.
Hey my High School won the LIT back in the Day. Kentank please show a little more patience. The writing is on the wall this year for UK. They control thier destiny right now. I still think that the best is yet to come even if it is not going to be good enough to make the NCAA.

[Mike Corey]

I think this is precisely the point Mike Corey was trying to make, which dynastydefender simply couldn't reconcile with "hard facts."

This was precisely my point. Thanks, Wilson. However, I didn't make my point a succinctly or eloquently as Kentankerous did, so I must concede the floor to him/her.

[dynastydefender]

My point was that OVERALL UK has had a better program. I never argued that they were better than Duke this year or the past 10.

"You got your ears on over there good buddy?"


This was precisely my point. Thanks, Wilson. However, I didn't make my point a succinctly or eloquently as Kentankerous did, so I must concede the floor to him/her.

[dynastydefender]

:) I will stop trying to convince a Devils alum that happens to be a writer for goduke.com. That would be like talking to a brick wall!


This was precisely my point. Thanks, Wilson. However, I didn't make my point a succinctly or eloquently as Kentankerous did, so I must concede the floor to him/her.

[KenTankerous]

Patience I have. But do you really expect the kind of miracle it would take to make The Big Dance to come from a squad as sporadic and sloppy as this year's Cats?

No, I think we let Gillespie do his thing and hope for better times within the next five years.

This is the year we take lumps to avenge later.

[MulletMan]

That try men's souls. Go Cats!!

I see a Matt Daugherty parallel here. Gentlemen be patient.

I pressume that you are speaking of Matt Doherty? Riiiiiight... I'd be pooing myself if I was trying to reconcile my basketball team's fate with the reign of D'oh.

[bhd28]

Great game. My brother, who is finishing up med school there, got in at the end of the game. Apparently, after Stallings cleared the Vandy bench guys... and they had played for a while and got tired... he started letting Vandy fans onto the court to play the end of the game. The refs, overwhelmed by the score, thought it might help UK's self esteem to outscore someone, so they allowed it. Alas, the fans outscored UK's players 8-6. :eek:

[billybreen]

I'm arriving late to this party, but an 11pt first half?!? That's awesome.

I hope PP enjoys being 'the man.'

[dynastydefender]

Watch out now!! :)


Great game. My brother, who is finishing up med school there, got in at the end of the game. Apparently, after Stallings cleared the Vandy bench guys... and they had played for a while and got tired... he started letting Vandy fans onto the court to play the end of the game. The refs, overwhelmed by the score, thought it might help UK's self esteem to outscore someone, so they allowed it. Alas, the fans outscored UK's players 8-6. :eek:

[Olympic Fan]

It's a good thing for the Wildcats that the selection committee doesn't consider margin of victory, because Kentucky would be toast after this one.

Actually, the selection committee DOES consider margin of victory. They consider everything.

You may be confused by the fact that the RPI doesn't consider margin of victory. But the RPI is just one tool used by the committee.

Now, I've had as many problems with the NCAA selection committee overthe years as anybody, but the one thing I give them credit for is that they have access to much deeper sources of information than most of us. They know when a team lost a key game with a key player on the sideline. They know when a game was decided by a controversial play. And they know the difference between a 10-point loss on the road at a top 25 opponent and a 41-point loss on the road.

No single factor governs their deliberation. Kentucky has two absolutely horrible early season losses. But they are early. A strong finish would mitigate them to some degree, but never erase them. The 41-point loss to Vandy will hurt badly ... however, a team with a little better overall resume could overcome it.

There was some talk (the ESPN crew debated it Saturday) that Kentucky -- with five straight wins, including homecourt upsets of Tennessee and Vandy -- might be making a case for an at-large bid if they continued to finish strong. After last night, I think that's a huge long-shot

They're going to have to win the SEC Tournament to make it.

[dynastydefender]

Actually, the selection committee DOES consider margin of victory. They consider everything.

You may be confused by the fact that the RPI doesn't consider margin of victory. But the RPI is just one tool used by the committee.

Now, I've had as many problems with the NCAA selection committee overthe years as anybody, but the one thing I give them credit for is that they have access to much deeper sources of information than most of us. They know when a team lost a key game with a key player on the sideline. They know when a game was decided by a controversial play. And they know the difference between a 10-point loss on the road at a top 25 opponent and a 41-point loss on the road.

No single factor governs their deliberation. Kentucky has two absolutely horrible early season losses. But they are early. A strong finish would mitigate them to some degree, but never erase them. The 41-point loss to Vandy will hurt badly ... however, a team with a little better overall resume could overcome it.

There was some talk (the ESPN crew debated it Saturday) that Kentucky -- with five straight wins, including homecourt upsets of Tennessee and Vandy -- might be making a case for an at-large bid if they continued to finish strong. After last night, I think that's a huge long-shot

They're going to have to win the SEC Tournament to make it.


I have seen other conferences (sigh....mid majors in particular) pull off something like that. Making it in the tourney is one thing. Bowing out in the first round is another ball of wax.

[Indoor66]

I have seen other conferences (sigh....mid majors in particular) pull off something like that. Making it in the tourney is one thing. Bowing out in the first round is another ball of wax.

Why all the KY talk? They have their own boards.

[dynastydefender]

Why all the KY talk? They have their own boards.

I want to hear the other side of the coin. I mean Kentucky fans in general are spoiled and they whine too much because in my opinion we have no patience (No offense to kentank and UK Fan). This board provides more point-counterpoint discussion. I must admit. This kind of courtesy probably doesn't exist in the Wildcat discussion rooms. Plus I finally got some closure from Laettner's shot because of this board.

[YmoBeThere]

That I got on my kid's computer and beat Vandy with UK 223 to 38.

:)

Funny, didn't seem to change the final score at all....:D

[ugadevil]

That I got on my kid's computer and beat Vandy with UK 223 to 38.

:)

I'm watching the Suns/Warriors game on ESPN. I think both teams are also on pace to score 223.

[dynastydefender]

Ok Straight from ESPN!!

"Kentucky [15-10 (9-3), RPI: 66, SOS: 16]
Make it eight wins in their past nine games for the Wildcats, who remain on track to get maybe 11 or 12 SEC wins and become a legitimate bubble discussion. If they can handle Ole Miss and Florida at home and a trip to South Carolina, they won't even need to win in Knoxville to get to the dozen mark. Who would have thought this was possible after a bad nonconference slate that included crippling home losses to Gardner-Webb and San Diego? Is there any way the ultimate Billy Gillispie irony happens, in which UK makes it and A&M somehow doesn't?"

I think BG making the tourney after exposing how poor Tubby's recruits are and after turning the season around would be very satisfying. Keeping my fingers crossed!!

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Ok Straight from ESPN!!

"Kentucky [15-10 (9-3), RPI: 66, SOS: 16]
Make it eight wins in their past nine games for the Wildcats, who remain on track to get maybe 11 or 12 SEC wins and become a legitimate bubble discussion. If they can handle Ole Miss and Florida at home and a trip to South Carolina, they won't even need to win in Knoxville to get to the dozen mark. Who would have thought this was possible after a bad nonconference slate that included crippling home losses to Gardner-Webb and San Diego? Is there any way the ultimate Billy Gillispie irony happens, in which UK makes it and A&M somehow doesn't?"

I think BG making the tourney after exposing how poor Tubby's recruits are and after turning the season around would be very satisfying. Keeping my fingers crossed!!

No team who scored a mere 11 points in any half of basketball deserves a spot in the Big Dance. Enjoy the NIT, UK!

[dynastydefender]

No team who scored a mere 11 points in any half of basketball deserves a spot in the Big Dance. Enjoy the NIT, UK!

Is a good reason you are not on the selection committee!!

[TwoDukeTattoos]

Is a good reason you are not on the selection committee!!

In all honesty, just as a college hoops fanatic, I felt that the hiring of Gillespe was huge. I felt that Tubby was a great coach, but not a great recruiter. With Gillespe's energy along with the UK brand, I think he'll do very well there.