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Mike Corey
12-27-2007, 11:15 AM
America's #1 prospect--in football--told Rivals radio earlier this morning that he was planning on visiting Florida, M*chigan and Duke in January.

He is the best prep football prospect since Adrian Peterson came out of Palestine, Texas.

His name is Terrelle Pryor, and he hails from Pennsylvania. He has long been rumored to be a heavy Ohio State lean, and that is likely still the case. However, he had developed a great respect for Coach Cutcliffe, and as such had shown great interest in Tennessee until Cutcliffe accepted his new position at Duke.

Pryor is also a basketball prospect, ranking in the top 50 in the country. He hopes to play both sports in college.

Despite the fact that his commitment to any school other than Ohio State is highly unlikely, that he will be visiting Duke is very good news indeed for the football program.

YmoBeThere
12-27-2007, 11:20 AM
Yes, but hasn't Coach K frowned on primary players playing multiple sports? I think Reggie Love is the exception rather than the rule.

Indoor66
12-27-2007, 11:22 AM
Yes, but hasn't Coach K frowned on primary players playing multiple sports? I think Reggie Love is the exception rather than the rule.

Love wasn't recruited to play BB.

RPS
12-27-2007, 11:42 AM
Despite the fact that his commitment to any school other than Ohio State is highly unlikely, that he will be visiting Duke is very good news indeed for the football program.It's great news, and even better if he's using one of his five official visits to go to Duke. February 6 isn't far off and Coach Cutliffe has to work fast, but this is excellent news.

Jumbo
12-27-2007, 11:51 AM
I'm pretty confident in stating that there is absolutely no chance that Pryor will come to Duke. Even so, it's great to be in the conversation. Buzz is a big thing, and while I'm not sure this will make a big impact on current high school seniors, let's hope it opens some doors that previously would have been closed to the Class of 2009.

rthomas
12-27-2007, 12:01 PM
Pryor was all but set on WVU - Huggy and Rodriguez had agreed to let him play both sports. Then Rodriguez left WVU for Michigan - Rodriguez called and told Pryor before telling anone else, including the team, that he had quit at WVU and was going to Michigan. Pryor dropped WVU and added Michigan to his list.

He's supposed to be a Vince Young type QB who can pass.

formerdukeathlete
12-27-2007, 12:45 PM
I'm pretty confident in stating that there is absolutely no chance that Pryor will come to Duke. Even so, it's great to be in the conversation. Buzz is a big thing, and while I'm not sure this will make a big impact on current high school seniors, let's hope it opens some doors that previously would have been closed to the Class of 2009.

Rivals indicates Pryor has a 3.4 GPA - presumably on a 4.0 scale.

(The only caveat as a b-ball player is that he apparently plays AA ball in Pa, which is small school ball.)

So, if the stars are aligned, Pryor is drawn to the academic challenge and prestige in attending Duke, Pryor's Western PA coaches and guidance counselors like / are very receptive to Cut (dating back to the Johnny Majors days - JM won a national championship at Pitt and went on to coach at Tennessee, and later returned to Pitt. - Tenn. coaches have done well in western PA), and Pryor would like to play basketball, the opportunity to go out for basketball at Duke, then maybe he picks us.

That he would consider us has got to help with other more highly rated recruits. Renfree is also going to visit in January, last time I checked, a 4 star pro style prospect, who would be a huge land for Duke.

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-27-2007, 12:50 PM
Rivals indicates Pryor has a 3.4 GPA - presumably on a 4.0 scale.

(The only caveat as a b-ball player is that he apparently plays AA ball in Pa, which is small school ball.)

So, if the stars are aligned, Pryor is drawn to the academic challenge and prestige in attending Duke, Pryor's Western PA coaches and guidance counselors like / are very receptive to Cut (dating back to the Johnny Majors days - JM won a national championship at Pitt and went on to coach at Tennessee, and later returned to Pitt. - Tenn. coaches have done well in western PA), and Pryor would like to play basketball, the opportunity to go out for basketball at Duke, then maybe he picks us.

That he would consider us has got to help with other more highly rated recruits. Renfree is also going to visit in January, last time I checked, a 4 star pro style prospect, who would be a huge land for Duke.

"Back in the old days," many of Duke's football players were recruited from Pennsylvania. I hope this visit is one of many indicating a change in fortunes for the football program. It's time!

SMO
12-27-2007, 01:29 PM
Rivals indicates Pryor has a 3.4 GPA - presumably on a 4.0 scale.

(The only caveat as a b-ball player is that he apparently plays AA ball in Pa, which is small school ball.)

So, if the stars are aligned, Pryor is drawn to the academic challenge and prestige in attending Duke, Pryor's Western PA coaches and guidance counselors like / are very receptive to Cut (dating back to the Johnny Majors days - JM won a national championship at Pitt and went on to coach at Tennessee, and later returned to Pitt. - Tenn. coaches have done well in western PA), and Pryor would like to play basketball, the opportunity to go out for basketball at Duke, then maybe he picks us.

That he would consider us has got to help with other more highly rated recruits. Renfree is also going to visit in January, last time I checked, a 4 star pro style prospect, who would be a huge land for Duke.

PA high schools are categorized by size but AA schools typically play AAA schools throughout the season. In the playoffs, they only play other AAs but some of those are highly competitive prep schools so the competition is good. It's not like comparing collegiate division I vs. II vs. III.

Jumbo
12-27-2007, 02:14 PM
Rivals indicates Pryor has a 3.4 GPA - presumably on a 4.0 scale.

(The only caveat as a b-ball player is that he apparently plays AA ball in Pa, which is small school ball.)

So, if the stars are aligned, Pryor is drawn to the academic challenge and prestige in attending Duke, Pryor's Western PA coaches and guidance counselors like / are very receptive to Cut (dating back to the Johnny Majors days - JM won a national championship at Pitt and went on to coach at Tennessee, and later returned to Pitt. - Tenn. coaches have done well in western PA), and Pryor would like to play basketball, the opportunity to go out for basketball at Duke, then maybe he picks us.

That he would consider us has got to help with other more highly rated recruits. Renfree is also going to visit in January, last time I checked, a 4 star pro style prospect, who would be a huge land for Duke.

Exactly. Look, I think anything we get out of the current senior class is gravy. It's hard to make up ground this quickly after a coaching change, especially given Duke's track record. But, as you indicated, every time Duke's name is mentioned in the same article as a kid like Pryor, it bodes well for next year. Even if Duke is only being mentioned by the kid for show, Cutcliffe can spin it into something positive.

And in the borderline-miraculous event that Pryor actually decided to come to Duke, would K actually let him play basketball? Considering Duke's abundance of guys his size and future recruiting target, it wouldn't make sense to add Pryor from a hoops perspective. Plus, K hasn't exactly been keen on having major players (like Paulus) play two sports (it's different when a guy like D Bryant or Reggie Love walks on to be an extra basketball body). So, let's play a hypothetical game for a second (since there's no way this could come to fruition) -- would Coach K be willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the football program?

Indoor66
12-27-2007, 02:18 PM
Exactly. Look, I think anything we get out of the current senior class is gravy. It's hard to make up ground this quickly after a coaching change, especially given Duke's track record. But, as you indicated, every time Duke's name is mentioned in the same article as a kid like Pryor, it bodes well for next year. Even if Duke is only being mentioned by the kid for show, Cutcliffe can spin it into something positive.

And in the borderline-miraculous event that Pryor actually decided to come to Duke, would K actually let him play basketball? Considering Duke's abundance of guys his size and future recruiting target, it wouldn't make sense to add Pryor from a hoops perspective. Plus, K hasn't exactly been keen on having major players (like Paulus) play two sports (it's different when a guy like D Bryant or Reggie Love walks on to be an extra basketball body). So, let's play a hypothetical game for a second (since there's no way this could come to fruition) -- would Coach K be willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the football program?

Isn't the NCAA rule that if he plays Football the scholly is charged against Football. Basketball would be as a "walk-on." Why would K not allow him to try out? If he makes it, so much the better. Paulus was recruited as a BB scholly. I understand K not allowing him to play FB.

Bob Green
12-27-2007, 02:53 PM
Terrelle Pryor is playing basketball at the Bojangles Shootout in Charlotte today:

http://www.charlotte.com/preps/story/421327.html

His team faces Derrick Favors team in today's game.

Jumbo
12-27-2007, 03:00 PM
Isn't the NCAA rule that if he plays Football the scholly is charged against Football. Basketball would be as a "walk-on." Why would K not allow him to try out? If he makes it, so much the better. Paulus was recruited as a BB scholly. I understand K not allowing him to play FB.

It's not that K wouldn't try him out. Pryor is a top-50 basketball recruit. Think Charlie Ward, or Ronald Curry if he were actually good. He's not gonna sign with a school and expect to be an extra body on a basketball team. He'll want to play. Coach K wasn't about to take Paulus if he were on a football scholly and only got him for basketball come January. So I'm wondering if K would allow for a similar thing with Pryor -- giving a kid a chance to work his way into the rotation when a) K hasn't even recruited him to this point and b) He'll be with the football team for the first half of the season.

Uncle Drew
12-27-2007, 03:04 PM
Let's let the guy play football for four years, then go to grad school playing basketball four years. come on people think here! :cool:

Indoor66
12-27-2007, 03:16 PM
It's not that K wouldn't try him out. Pryor is a top-50 basketball recruit. Think Charlie Ward, or Ronald Curry if he were actually good. He's not gonna sign with a school and expect to be an extra body on a basketball team. He'll want to play. Coach K wasn't about to take Paulus if he were on a football scholly and only got him for basketball come January. So I'm wondering if K would allow for a similar thing with Pryor -- giving a kid a chance to work his way into the rotation when a) K hasn't even recruited him to this point and b) He'll be with the football team for the first half of the season.

I don't know K's disposition on that, but it would be a great situation in which to make a decision! :)

johnb
12-27-2007, 03:30 PM
Agreed--being on the radar of 5 star recruits (even if it is to demonstrate his school cred) puts us in the position of being acceptable to everyone else, and with a few 4 and 5 star recruits/year, we'd be much more in a position to have a winning season.

This is an interesting issue:


would Coach K be willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the football program?

I'd like to think so, especially since an additional great athlete would not hurt the team--and if the guy started at qb, surely he wouldn't take it badly if he didn't get 20"/game in bball, and I don't think it would hurt our recruiting of later wingish players.

RPS
12-27-2007, 03:42 PM
Isn't the NCAA rule that if he plays Football the scholly is charged against Football. Basketball would be as a "walk-on." One of my son's (older) teammates was a great prospect in both football and lacrosse. He committed to Notre Dame with the plan being that he would redshirt for football and play lax as a freshman with lax being charged with the first year's scholly and each program alternating years thereafter. But Charlie Weis realized he needed the player on the field as a true freshman (for what became obvious reasons a year later) so he became strictly a football player for scholarship purposes. To his credit, Weis honored his agreement and the player played lax and was an All-American as a freshman and is now a major player in both sports (even though he misses about half of spring football practice). Football/lax, being fall/spring, is obviously an easier combination than football/basketball, but being a real player in two different sports is possible. It would be fabulous for Duke football if K would make a real pitch for Pryor despite football being priority 1.

formerdukeathlete
12-27-2007, 03:49 PM
Isn't the NCAA rule that if he plays Football the scholly is charged against Football. Basketball would be as a "walk-on." Why would K not allow him to try out? If he makes it, so much the better. Paulus was recruited as a BB scholly. I understand K not allowing him to play FB.

Paulus had to wait two years before going out for Football and had to give up one year of football eligibility. I think you have 5 school years to complete all sports eligibility. So, if Paulus were to go out for Football after his senior season, he would have only one year to play (correct me if I am wrong re the NCAA rules). The two year wait rule was to prevent Football schools from signing a kid on say a lacrosse scholarship who will end up playing football as a way to circumvent the 25 / 85 limits.

Pryor could play basketball for Duke and his scholly would not count against the basketball limit as long as he stayed on the Football team.

My guess is that K would be happy to give him a shot as long as he stayed on the Football team.

From Pryor's perspective, what does the chance to play Basketball at Duke offer him? While he would miss x percentage of b-ball practices and some travel, he would step onto a court in the most competitive b-ball league, benefit from the best coach, and play in front of some of the best fans. Aside from the fun factor, he would know in his own mind how he had responded under such circumstances and then whether professional basketball was something to consider in addition to or in place of trying pro football.

SilkyJ
12-27-2007, 04:01 PM
It's great news, and even better if he's using one of his five official visits to go to Duke. February 6 isn't far off and Coach Cutliffe has to work fast, but this is excellent news.

I assume the significance of feb 6th is that it is the signing date for football players?


would Coach K be willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the football program?

I dont think anyone else responded to this, but I'd have to imagine the answer is no, if the "sacrifice" made the team worse. I could see coach K promising him a spot on the team as a technical walk-on (kinda like Lee Melch, he wasn't really a walk-on, but he didn't have a scholarship his 1st year) but he wouldn't promise him anything in terms of PT or anything, obviously...


Let's let the guy play football for four years, then go to grad school playing basketball four years. come on people think here! :cool:

if only it worked like that, we might still have the Love machine around!

RPS
12-27-2007, 04:10 PM
I assume the significance of feb 6th is that it is the signing date for football players?Yup. It's always the first Wednesday in February. For states with schools in the SEC it's a holiday of the first order.

gvtucker
12-27-2007, 04:28 PM
Note also that there's a two sport walk-on playing hoops for Duke right now, Steve Johnson, so it isn't as if Reggie Love is an exception.

Jumbo
12-27-2007, 04:51 PM
Note also that there's a two sport walk-on playing hoops for Duke right now, Steve Johnson, so it isn't as if Reggie Love is an exception.
Right. It's Pryor that would be the exception. We'e talking about a guy who, in addition to being a program-changing QB, is an excellent, top-50 basketball player who would expect to go somewhere and contribute, not just be a member of the team. That's why I raised my hypothetical about K and whether he'd accept a situation like that. And, again, this is all just us shootin' the breeze, because this kid isn't coming to Duke.

OldPhiKap
12-27-2007, 05:03 PM
Reggie Love was a FB scholarship who walked on.
Jay Heaps was a soccer scholarship who walked on.
Trajan Landon was a baseball scholarship who "walked on."

The question isn't whether K would let him walk on if he had game (which it sounds like he does). The question is whether Cutcliffe would let him do it.

Devil in the Blue Dress
12-27-2007, 05:10 PM
Reggie Love was a FB scholarship who walked on.
Jay Heaps was a soccer scholarship who walked on.
Trajan Landon was a baseball scholarship who "walked on."

The question isn't whether K would let him walk on if he had game (which it sounds like he does). The question is whether Cutcliffe would let him do it.
Your observation marks a change in the way we think and react regarding football! Bravo!

JBDuke
12-27-2007, 05:12 PM
Reggie Love was a FB scholarship who walked on.
Jay Heaps was a soccer scholarship who walked on.
Trajan Landon was a baseball scholarship who "walked on."

The question isn't whether K would let him walk on if he had game (which it sounds like he does). The question is whether Cutcliffe would let him do it.

Actually, Trajan wasn't a baseball scholarship that "walked on". First, he was a recruited basketball player, whether or not he was scholarship, and he didn't play baseball for Duke. As for who paid for his education, Trajan was drafted by the San Diego Padres out of HS and he signed with them, with the understanding that Duke basketball and his college education came first. Trajan played in the Padres organization during his summer breaks. IIRC, this arrangement lasted until his senior year, when the contract was not renewed/extended. At that time, Trajan went on a basketball scholarship.

Others have brought up Lee, which is yet another different circumstance. Lee might not have had a scholarship his freshman year, but he was a recruited athlete - not a "walk on". Due to NCAA limitations at the time, Duke couldn't give out more than 5 scholarships to incoming freshmen, and Lee was #6 on the totem pole. He was promised a scholarship for his sophomore year, but the first year was on Lee and his family. What made him not a "walk on" is that Lee didn't have to try out to get a roster spot.

OldPhiKap
12-27-2007, 05:44 PM
Your observation marks a change in the way we think and react regarding football! Bravo!

Let's hope so. I agree with all of those above who have noted that, regardless of what happens with this recruit, it is nice to have a real sense of opportunity as opposed to just hoping things will get better. The fact that top recruits would consider taking an official visit to Duke is a HUGE step forward.


JB: that sounds right after reading it. My memory is starting to get a bit hazy around the edges. But the point remains that K does not have problems playing the best available kids so long as they meet his criteria of ability and fitting into team chemistry. While I don't think he would ever follow the Curry debacle -- having your pg out for the first half of the season, playing football -- there is no reason that this kid could not walk on after the football season is over and be a real part of our hoops team. Even if his role is to bring some toughness to practices, which one of us wouldn't love to have that opportunity?

Jumbo
12-27-2007, 05:48 PM
Reggie Love was a FB scholarship who walked on.
Jay Heaps was a soccer scholarship who walked on.
Trajan Landon was a baseball scholarship who "walked on."

The question isn't whether K would let him walk on if he had game (which it sounds like he does). The question is whether Cutcliffe would let him do it.

You're missing my point. Neither Heaps nor Love (nor D Bryant, Stan Brunson or Steve Johnson) was remotely close to being a high-level basketball recruit. Love got a bit of playing time because of attrition and injuries, but certainly didn't join the team expecting to play much -- if at all.

Pryor, by contrast, could play basketball anywhere in the country, and start from Day 1 as a Frosh at a lot of schools. That's a totally different ball of wax.

dkbaseball
12-27-2007, 07:16 PM
Pretty exciting news that Duke has made this kid's list. I suppose if K could be persuaded to put on a full court press, there might be a ghost of a chance. I've read that Pryor has the capability of bringing several stud football recruits along with him, and, assuming a few of them could gain admission, he might be able to convince himself that he and his buddies could turn Duke football around right away. We are in a BCS conference, and Cutcliffe could pitch it as an opportunity to be a savior/trailblazer.

My guess is he ends up at Michigan. Rich Rodriguez's offense is perfect for him, and Beilein desperately needs a talent infusion. They can probably offer him the best pitch at this point.

I do think that, if asked, K should overcome any misgivings about the effect on his own program, and get in there and do whatever he can.This is a rare opportunity to get some incredible momentum for Duke football. And when has a very athletic 6-6 type failed to do well in K's program?

OldPhiKap
12-27-2007, 08:09 PM
You're missing my point. Neither Heaps nor Love (nor D Bryant, Stan Brunson or Steve Johnson) was remotely close to being a high-level basketball recruit. Love got a bit of playing time because of attrition and injuries, but certainly didn't join the team expecting to play much -- if at all.

Pryor, by contrast, could play basketball anywhere in the country, and start from Day 1 as a Frosh at a lot of schools. That's a totally different ball of wax.

Agreed. You are stating the logical conclusion of my point. I wish you were more positive about our chances of landing him, but it seems like a long shot to me. Of course, Johnny Dawkins came to a young Coach K and the rest is history. Pryor could be the football equivalent at Duke -- and get to play on a national championship contending team for four years as well!

Come on down, Mr. Pryor. You will not be disappointed!!!!!!!!

yancem
12-27-2007, 08:11 PM
You're missing my point. Neither Heaps nor Love (nor D Bryant, Stan Brunson or Steve Johnson) was remotely close to being a high-level basketball recruit. Love got a bit of playing time because of attrition and injuries, but certainly didn't join the team expecting to play much -- if at all.

Pryor, by contrast, could play basketball anywhere in the country, and start from Day 1 as a Frosh at a lot of schools. That's a totally different ball of wax.

I can't find any recruiting links still active from back then but IIRC both Love and Battier's little brother were reasonably highly touted in basketball. They weren't McDonalds AA, but I 'm pretty sure that at least one of the two was top 100 if not both and the difference between top 50 and top 100 isn't usually very significant. K was going to let both of them play until Battier got injured and Love made some mistakes. So I think that if Pryor wanted to play football at Duke (not likely, but if) then K would let him play basketball. I'm pretty sure however that K would would recruit players of similar abilities to make sure the team was covered when Pryor was playing football.

Uncle Drew
12-27-2007, 08:12 PM
Pretty exciting news that Duke has made this kid's list. I suppose if K could be persuaded to put on a full court press, there might be a ghost of a chance. I've read that Pryor has the capability of bringing several stud football recruits along with him, and, assuming a few of them could gain admission, he might be able to convince himself that he and his buddies could turn Duke football around right away. We are in a BCS conference, and Cutcliffe could pitch it as an opportunity to be a savior/trailblazer.

My guess is he ends up at Michigan. Rich Rodriguez's offense is perfect for him, and Beilein desperately needs a talent infusion. They can probably offer him the best pitch at this point.

I do think that, if asked, K should overcome any misgivings about the effect on his own program, and get in there and do whatever he can.This is a rare opportunity to get some incredible momentum for Duke football. And when has a very athletic 6-6 type failed to do well in K's program?



Look I'm not saying the kid will go to Duke. But in the past year Duke has had two highly sought after recruits in basketball (Patterson & Monroe) pick other schools and kind of shock us all in the way they did it. But with a new coach and apparently re-commitment to the football program who knows. Maybe this guy will shock some other schools the way we all got shocked and put a Duke jersey on?!:eek:

sagegrouse
12-27-2007, 08:57 PM
FWIW, I believe K will do almost anything to help the football program. It is a blight on both the athletic department and the Unviersity (nothing against the fine men who compete for Duke).

sagegrouse

formerdukeathlete
12-27-2007, 10:13 PM
The question isn't whether K would let him walk on if he had game (which it sounds like he does). The question is whether Cutcliffe would let him do it.

K would let Pryor walk on.

Cutcliffe would let play basketball.

And this would be agreed upon in advance of Pryor signing with Duke.

another common gentlemen's agreement - scholarships are year to year, but schools make representations that if student athletes remains academically eligible and do not violate certain team policies, that their scholarships will not be yanked.

C'on folks....K would be happy to give this kid a shot at pt, and Cut would be happy that the kid had the opportunity to do so. Since every other school in the country would afford the same opportunity - this is simply supply and demand.

Jumbo
12-28-2007, 12:08 AM
K would let Pryor walk on.

Cutcliffe would let play basketball.

And this would be agreed upon in advance of Pryor signing with Duke.

another common gentlemen's agreement - scholarships are year to year, but schools make representations that if student athletes remains academically eligible and do not violate certain team policies, that their scholarships will not be yanked.

C'on folks....K would be happy to give this kid a shot at pt, and Cut would be happy that the kid had the opportunity to do so. Since every other school in the country would afford the same opportunity - this is simply supply and demand.

Really, FDA? Really? Keep in mind, once again, that we're having a hypotheical conversation -- there is no chance that Pryor will come to Duke. But do you mind telling us what you're basing your statements on? I mean, it's relatively par for the course for you to make assertions without any support, but when you say "K would let Pryor walk on" and "K would be happy to give this kid a shot at pt," it just sounds ridiculous. You didn't say, "I think..." You made declarative statements as if they were foregone conclusions.

Have you spoken to Coach K about this? Do you know what he wants out of his team? Has he shown himself willing to take anyone and everyone on his basketball team? Since we're still in hypothetical land, let's assume that Pryor wants to come to Duke. Again, let me point out that he is not another Reggie Love or Jay Heaps -- he is an elite-level basketball player who (football aside) could go pretty much anywhere in the country and play right away. He will not be content sitting the bench. If no one leaves early or transfers after this season, Duke's basketball team will feature 12 recruited players (Paulus, McClure, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith, King, E. Williams and Czyz). That's an absurdly deep team -- a bunch of really good players will see little-to-no playing time. Do you really think Coach K is going to be psyched to add a freshman to that mix in January? Remember, Coach K is all about the psychological end of the game. We know how important relationships and chemistry are to him. Do you see him wanting to mess with something that will start over the summer by adding a very talented kid who expects to play, but who will have been separated from his teammates for an entire semester? Maybe K would be willing to do that. But it's asking a lot, and anyone who says that K would just let the kid walk-on -- no sweat -- simply isn't thinking, doesn't know Duke basketball well and has very little knowledge of Pryor's basketball skills.

I can't say this enough: There is a huge difference between taking a walk-on who will be an extra practice body who can come through in an emergency and taking a kid who is an elite player expecting PT. I wish something crazy would happen so this dilemna could actually become real. But, real or not, the dillemna is legit.

Bob Green
12-28-2007, 05:29 AM
Pryor stated that he does not intend to play basketball (http://www.charlotte.com/preps/story/422478.html) in college.

Here is a totally different subject, but I don't believe a new thread is warranted: Derrick Favors had a triple double at the Bojangles Shootout today: 42 points, 20 rebounds, 12 blocks and three steals. That is an absolutely stunning stat line!

JasonEvans
12-28-2007, 05:50 AM
(Signing Day) is always the first Wednesday in February. For states with schools in the SEC it's a holiday of the first order.

There was talk of making it a bank holiday, but in SEC territory boosters often need quick access to large sums of money on signing day so only having access to the ATM simply would not do.

--Jason "thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses" Evans

OldPhiKap
12-28-2007, 09:02 AM
There was talk of making it a bank holiday, but in SEC territory boosters often need quick access to large sums of money on signing day so only having access to the ATM simply would not do.


That thar's funny -- I don't care where you are!

yancem
12-28-2007, 09:46 AM
Again, let me point out that he is not another Reggie Love or Jay Heaps -- he is an elite-level basketball player who (football aside) could go pretty much anywhere in the country and play right away. He will not be content sitting the bench. If no one leaves early or transfers after this season, Duke's basketball team will feature 12 recruited players (Paulus, McClure, Pocius, Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, Zoubek, Singler, Smith, King, E. Williams and Czyz). That's an absurdly deep team -- a bunch of really good players will see little-to-no playing time. Do you really think Coach K is going to be psyched to add a freshman to that mix in January? Remember, Coach K is all about the psychological end of the game. We know how important relationships and chemistry are to him. Do you see him wanting to mess with something that will start over the summer by adding a very talented kid who expects to play, but who will have been separated from his teammates for an entire semester? Maybe K would be willing to do that. But it's asking a lot, and anyone who says that K would just let the kid walk-on -- no sweat -- simply isn't thinking, doesn't know Duke basketball well and has very little knowledge of Pryor's basketball skills.

Jumbo,

You keep talking about Love not being the kind of player that Pryor is and that K wouldn't want to bring in a freshman in during the middle of the season and give hi m minutes. But that is exactly what he did with Love. BTW Love played in 21 games and averaged 6.2 mpg which is significantly better than Boateng (20g, 2.5mpg) and Thompson (16g, 3.7mpg) and is on par with Sanders (25g, 5.8mpg) all of which were McD's AA's. I don't know much about Pryor but I haven't heard anything that suggests he is likely an McD AA. So should he rightfully expect more minutes as a freshman than the guys above?

OldPhiKap
12-28-2007, 09:53 AM
Jumbo,

You keep talking about Love not being the kind of player that Pryor is and that K wouldn't want to bring in a freshman in during the middle of the season and give hi m minutes. But that is exactly what he did with Love. BTW Love played in 21 games and averaged 6.2 mpg which is significantly better than Boateng (20g, 2.5mpg) and Thompson (16g, 3.7mpg) and is on par with Sanders (25g, 5.8mpg) all of which were McD's AA's. I don't know much about Pryor but I haven't heard anything that suggests he is likely an McD AA. So should he rightfully expect more minutes as a freshman than the guys above?

I think Jumbo's point is that talent does not automatically lead to playing time. K passes up on many talented players in recruiting because they don't fit his profile of the type of player and attitude he wants. Not to say that this kid does or doesn't have it -- I surely do not know -- but it is not a given. Also, Jumbo seems concerned that a kid with this much talent would want starter's minutes and that may be unlikely. The link above suggests, though, that he may be content to fit in wherever he is needed. Which, of course, is the type of attitude K is looking for . . . .

Jumbo
12-28-2007, 09:54 AM
Jumbo,

You keep talking about Love not being the kind of player that Pryor is and that K wouldn't want to bring in a freshman in during the middle of the season and give hi m minutes. But that is exactly what he did with Love. BTW Love played in 21 games and averaged 6.2 mpg which is significantly better than Boateng (20g, 2.5mpg) and Thompson (16g, 3.7mpg) and is on par with Sanders (25g, 5.8mpg) all of which were McD's AA's. I don't know much about Pryor but I haven't heard anything that suggests he is likely an McD AA. So should he rightfully expect more minutes as a freshman than the guys above?

I'm still not making myself clear, and I apologize. Reggie Love was not a big-time basketball recruit. Far from it. When he joined the team in 2000-01, it was to be an extra body for practice on a team that lacked scholarship players. He didn't have an ego and didn't expect to play. Then Boozer went down, and we know that he became part of that three-headed center for a while.

The difference is this -- K went to Reggie because he had nowhere else to turn. It would be totally different with a kid like Pryor who, as I've said, will expect to play right away wherever he goes. Meanwhile, Duke might have 12 scholarship players next year. That's a tough recipe for anyone to earn playing time after missing a semester. Maybe someone like Pryor would be a great kid and wouldn't care how much time he got. But that's something K certainly would have to consider, and anyone who reflexively says "K would take Pryor" needs to put more thought into the matter. It's a complicated issue.

formerdukeathlete
12-28-2007, 10:41 AM
......Meanwhile, Duke might have 12 scholarship players next year. That's a tough recipe for anyone to earn playing time after missing a semester. Maybe someone like Pryor would be a great kid and wouldn't care how much time he got. But that's something K certainly would have to consider, and anyone who reflexively says "K would take Pryor" needs to put more thought into the matter. It's a complicated issue.

Yes, when recruiting guards, small forwards, needs on our end and expectations of playing time on the other end, are considered by our coaching staff as well as by recruits - nothing is one-sided in this process - both sides think about what the team needs and how a particular recruit might fulfill that need and hence earn playing time. K who has shown willingness to take on walk-ons of all sorts - what would be his downside for letting Pryor on the team for a half season each year? Well, other players' pt in the first half of the season would not be adversely affected. And, Pryor just might turn into a contributor, and he might just help Duke win. If he is not a contributor, then he wont get pt.

With little downside from our b-ball staff's perspective, and more potential upside for everyone concerned, K as a rational person, as a leader, I think it highly probable that he would be happy to give it a shot. I also think it highly probably that Coach Cutcliffe would agree to this, given the limited downside (less focus), yet huge potential upside that allowing for this may result in Duke landing Pryor. And, if Pryor comes here, he is an immediate impact player which helps us land others.

From each coach's perspective, Pryor coming and offered an opportunity to play both sports, is, it would certainly seem, overwhelmingly a win-win.

yancem
12-28-2007, 11:02 AM
I'm still not making myself clear, and I apologize. Reggie Love was not a big-time basketball recruit. Far from it. When he joined the team in 2000-01, it was to be an extra body for practice on a team that lacked scholarship players. He didn't have an ego and didn't expect to play. Then Boozer went down, and we know that he became part of that three-headed center for a while.

The difference is this -- K went to Reggie because he had nowhere else to turn. It would be totally different with a kid like Pryor who, as I've said, will expect to play right away wherever he goes. Meanwhile, Duke might have 12 scholarship players next year. That's a tough recipe for anyone to earn playing time after missing a semester. Maybe someone like Pryor would be a great kid and wouldn't care how much time he got. But that's something K certainly would have to consider, and anyone who reflexively says "K would take Pryor" needs to put more thought into the matter. It's a complicated issue.

I understand that Pryor is a bigger time recruit than Love was and that next years team will be deeper than the 01 team but the 01 team was also a preseason pick for the nc which they won. The starters minutes were pretty well accounted for as were most of the bench minutes. Duke has had more talented/highly touted players come in and get less minutes than what Pryor would get even if he concentrated on basketball. Duke doesn't guarantee minutes to anyone, they have to earn them and I'm sure that K would make that clear to Pryor.

Honestly, I'm not sure why I'm debating this, Pryor is not going to sign with Duke to play football or basketball. I just don't understand why you think that K would be against the idea of letting him on the team. Your reasons seem more to the point of why Pryor wouldn't come to Duke than why K wouldn't want him on the team. An extra body, especially a 6'6' 235lb body could help in practice, if not in the games. As long as he knows he would have to earn his minutes like everyone else and that missing so much practice would put him behind the rest of the team, what's the downside?

killerleft
12-28-2007, 11:08 AM
Sure seems like a win-win situation for football and basketball to me. Pryor would certainly be better than our walk-ons.

And if he makes the visit, who knows? If Coach Cutcliffe can put enough positives out there... We will HAVE to start winning some recruiting battles we aren't supposed to win some time!

Jumbo
12-28-2007, 11:18 AM
Yes, when recruiting guards, small forwards, needs on our end and expectations of playing time on the other end, are considered by our coaching staff as well as by recruits - nothing is one-sided in this process - both sides think about what the team needs and how a particular recruit might fulfill that need and hence earn playing time. K who has shown willingness to take on walk-ons of all sorts - what would be his downside for letting Pryor on the team for a half season each year? Well, other players' pt in the first half of the season would not be adversely affected. And, Pryor just might turn into a contributor, and he might just help Duke win. If he is not a contributor, then he wont get pt.

With little downside from our b-ball staff's perspective, and more potential upside for everyone concerned, K as a rational person, as a leader, I think it highly probable that he would be happy to give it a shot. I also think it highly probably that Coach Cutcliffe would agree to this, given the limited downside (less focus), yet huge potential upside that allowing for this may result in Duke landing Pryor. And, if Pryor comes here, he is an immediate impact player which helps us land others.

From each coach's perspective, Pryor coming and offered an opportunity to play both sports, is, it would certainly seem, overwhelmingly a win-win.

You're ignoring K's focus on -- and borderline obsession with -- chemistry. He didn't want Paulus playing football, right? He would have to awfully sure that a) a kid like Pryor could deal with sitting on the bench b) his team could deal with a late-season addition actually cracking the rotation and c) Pryor actually fits what he wants to do before agreeing to this. It's not a knee-jerk, "let's take him" reaction from the basketball program.

That said, if playing basketball were the deciding factor, I do hope that K would be willing to sacrifice any potential negative impact and trust his ability to manage people for the greater benefit of Duke football.

This is an interesting hypothetical issue to discuss, since it will never come to fruition. Please don't dismiss concerns and try to oversimplify the situation.

Indoor66
12-28-2007, 11:24 AM
You're ignoring K's focus on -- and borderline obsession with -- chemistry. He didn't want Paulus playing football, right? He would have to awfully sure that a) a kid like Pryor could deal with sitting on the bench b) his team could deal with a late-season addition actually cracking the rotation and c) Pryor actually fits what he wants to do before agreeing to this. It's not a knee-jerk, "let's take him" reaction from the basketball program.

That said, if playing basketball were the deciding factor, I do hope that K would be willing to sacrifice any potential negative impact and trust his ability to manage people for the greater benefit of Duke football.

This is an interesting hypothetical issue to discuss, since it will never come to fruition. Please don't dismiss concerns and try to oversimplify the situation.

Why are we reading minds and tea leaves? Woe to you who try to anticipate great minds. Kind of a Lamont Cranston discussion.

killerleft
12-28-2007, 11:36 AM
At some point we're going to have to get some big-time recruits. In this one situation it is hard to argue with the logic that says Pryor is not coming to Duke.

So, how do we improve our football team if we don't stand a chance of recruiting, say, a top twenty recruit?

By ignoring the logical? Duke got Cutcliffe. Many on these boards didn't think we could get a coach with HIS credentials.

I cannot imagine that Coach Cutcliffe will not put forth great effort to land this guy no matter the odds. If we want top players we've got to go after them. If Duke can't get them then why did we spend big money to get a coach who can't succeed no matter who he is or what he does?

Jumbo
12-28-2007, 11:44 AM
At some point we're going to have to get some big-time recruits. In this one situation it is hard to argue with the logic that says Pryor is not coming to Duke.

So, how do we improve our football team if we don't stand a chance of recruiting, say, a top twenty recruit?

By ignoring the logical? Duke got Cutcliffe. Many on these boards didn't think we could get a coach with HIS credentials.

I cannot imagine that Coach Cutcliffe will not put forth great effort to land this guy no matter the odds. If we want top players we've got to go after them. If Duke can't get them then why did we spend big money to get a coach who can't succeed no matter who he is or what he does?

Oh, by all means Duke should go after him hard. But the kid is deciding in two months. Duke wasn't even in the picture prior to Cutcliffe's hiring. Other schools have been involved for years. That's a ridiculous amount of ground to make up for any program, let alone one that basically has been the worst in the country for more than a decade. If Cutcliffe pulls off this miracle, more power to him. But to answer your question about landing better recruits, you can't look at this year's class. It's too late in the game to expect a huge change. Duke will land better recruits by Cutcliffe getting involved with current juniors and pushing hard. Give the man some time.

Devilsfan
12-28-2007, 12:12 PM
If he wants to go to the league there's no better place. If he wants a first class degree and life outside football education, then Duke comes into play.

RPS
12-28-2007, 12:24 PM
If he wants to go to the league there's no better place. If he wants a first class degree and life outside football education, then Duke comes into play.It's not as simple as all that (though I agree with Jumbo on the possibilities here). The Bucks are great Sunday preparation generally, but don't have a great track record with quarterbacks (the best choice on that score would probably be USC). CC does have a great track record re QBs, which is why Duke can even get a mention at this point.

Mike Corey
12-28-2007, 01:54 PM
Cutcliffe may be able to bring in a handful of recruits for the class that matriculates fall '08. But as has been pointed out by others, Duke's class was largely full prior to Roof's firing. Cutcliffe's gotten in on a few quarterbacks late--Pryor and Renfree, most notably--but indeed, Cutcliffe's recruiting impact will be more significant in upcoming classes.

Regarding OSU's track record with QBs, the record certainly isn't strong. The good ones that have come through--Bobby Hoying, Joe Germaine, Craig Krenzel and Troy Smith--have done little in the NFL, particularly compared to their fellow Buckeyes in the NFL where OSU has had more success at developing talent (running backs, linemen, defensive backs, etc.).

Cutcliffe's ability to mold quarterbacks is considerable. A good reason he was interested in Duke was, undoubtedly, the tape he saw on Thad Lewis. And with no disrespect meant toward Zack Asack, who is an outstanding athlete and football player in his own right, Lewis has the potential to be a QB on Sundays, IMO, particularly under the tutelage that Cutcliffe will be able to provide.

Patrick Yates
12-28-2007, 03:34 PM
Pryor would be the best athlete on campus, bar none. While rated the best QB prospect, many pundits have theorized that he would be even better as a defensive end, if he were to pursue it.

Oh yeah, he would play on the hoops team. He might not start, but for a team starved of size, he would play. I have seen the name Reggie Love thrown arround, but it needs to be thrown out. Pryor is faster and stronger than Reggie Love was, and he might be almost as big. Athletically, Pryor is on a plane with Henderson, and he might be a better raw athlete than Henderson (and 2 inches taller).

K would find a place and a role for this kid, even if that role didn't kick off until the second semester, after a Bowl Game (cause this kid would help get other recruits, big time).

Won't happen, but he would contribute. No doubt.

Patrick Yates

Acymetric
12-28-2007, 05:52 PM
It was mentioned once in this thread that he might not do basketball at all in college, and then everyone proceeded as though it never happened. I know it was the Charlotte Observer, but that doesn't mean that you should ignore everything from it...

Now I don't think its fair to mention Troy Smith as a guy that did nothing in the NFL, he's only had a year. As soon as someone gets injured he's either going to take over the starting job for good, or go free agent at the end of his contract and start somewhere else. Its just a question of if (when) someone gets hurt. The knock on him is size, and there have been QB's shorter than him that did decent.

That said, OSU does a lot making quarterbacks good, but if I was already expecting to go to the pros I wouldn't go there. Unless you want a legacy of losing you're bowl game to a faster SEC team every year (I'm confident this will happen. I live in Ohio and watch a lot of Big 10 because of it. I think Illinois has a better chance of beating LSU than OSU does).

dkbaseball
12-28-2007, 06:30 PM
It was mentioned once in this thread that he might not do basketball at all in college, and then everyone proceeded as though it never happened. I know it was the Charlotte Observer, but that doesn't mean that you should ignore everything from it...


In a USA Today interview yesterday he said he would prefer playing in the NBA to the NFL, because of the injury factor. So I've got to think he'd really like to give basketball a shot to see where he stands. The Duke program could definitely serve his purposes. With all the talent I expect will be in school over the next four years, if he can win significant minutes playing just 3/4 of the season, then he should have a good idea of whether the NBA is an option. I'd sure like to be a fly on the wall when it all gets pitched to him next month. Let's hope a game at CIS is on the itinerary.

1Devil
12-28-2007, 06:52 PM
...So, if the stars are aligned, Pryor is drawn to the academic challenge and prestige in attending Duke...


That would be nice. If academics are important to him, no way would he be headed to Ohio State.

Huh?
12-28-2007, 08:52 PM
Anyone know if there are any good prospects looking at Duke besides this guy?

LetItBD08
12-29-2007, 01:06 AM
Does anyone know when Pryor is coming to campus? Will he attend a basketball game?

Same questions regarding Renfree as well.

Jim3k
12-29-2007, 02:06 AM
Oh, by all means Duke should go after him hard. But the kid is deciding in two months. Duke wasn't even in the picture prior to Cutcliffe's hiring. Other schools have been involved for years. That's a ridiculous amount of ground to make up for any program, let alone one that basically has been the worst in the country for more than a decade. If Cutcliffe pulls off this miracle, more power to him. But to answer your question about landing better recruits, you can't look at this year's class. It's too late in the game to expect a huge change. Duke will land better recruits by Cutcliffe getting involved with current juniors and pushing hard. Give the man some time.

Maybe, once he's on campus, he'll have a Cherokee Parks-type epiphany. Coming down from the circle toward the chapel can have a dramatic effect upon one who's never seen it before. If so, Coach Cutcliffe will succeed. Crossing my fingers.

Bluedawg
12-29-2007, 03:16 AM
I'm pretty confident in stating that there is absolutely no chance that Pryor will come to Duke. Even so, it's great to be in the conversation. Buzz is a big thing, and while I'm not sure this will make a big impact on current high school seniors, let's hope it opens some doors that previously would have been closed to the Class of 2009.

As would a TN victory on Jan 1. You know Duke will come up once or twice during that nationally televised game.

Bluedawg
12-29-2007, 03:19 AM
Exactly. Look, I think anything we get out of the current senior class is gravy. It's hard to make up ground this quickly after a coaching change, especially given Duke's track record. But, as you indicated, every time Duke's name is mentioned in the same article as a kid like Pryor, it bodes well for next year. Even if Duke is only being mentioned by the kid for show, Cutcliffe can spin it into something positive.

And in the borderline-miraculous event that Pryor actually decided to come to Duke, would K actually let him play basketball? Considering Duke's abundance of guys his size and future recruiting target, it wouldn't make sense to add Pryor from a hoops perspective. Plus, K hasn't exactly been keen on having major players (like Paulus) play two sports (it's different when a guy like D Bryant or Reggie Love walks on to be an extra basketball body). So, let's play a hypothetical game for a second (since there's no way this could come to fruition) -- would Coach K be willing to make a sacrifice for the good of the football program?

Cutcliffe's track record is more important here, and it is pretty good.

A better question is would Coach Cutcliffe be willing to let him play bball? With the increased risk of injury [think NC State]. Would he want to risk his #1 QB that way?

Mike Corey
12-29-2007, 09:48 AM
Anyone know if there are any good prospects looking at Duke besides this guy?

The biggest catches in Duke's recruiting class--on paper, at least--are probably Rendez James and Matt Daniels.

James is a four-star talent at CB and WR who picked Duke over Arizona and Purdue. Daniels is a three-star talent at safety who passed up offers from Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia among many others.

JasonEvans
12-29-2007, 10:39 AM
The biggest catches in Duke's recruiting class--on paper, at least--are probably Rendez James and Matt Daniels.

James is a four-star talent at CB and WR who picked Duke over Arizona and Purdue. Daniels is a three-star talent at safety who passed up offers from Tennessee, South Carolina and Georgia among many others.

I am guessing that James and Daniels are still solid verbals, right? I would think that Cut's first order of business would be making sure Duke's top recruits are still solid. I know that Georgia had been continuing to pursue Daniels throughout the fall. Some websites have listed James as a "soft verbal" which means he is committed to Duke but still thinking about other schools.

College football is verrry different from basketball. You are never sure about anything until the kid signs on the LOI line.

--Jason "the concept of a 'soft verbal' is so silly to me" Evans

captmojo
12-29-2007, 10:48 AM
I am guessing that James and Daniels are still solid verbals, right?

--Jason "the concept of a 'soft verbal' is so silly to me" Evans

Sorta' like that time back when I was a kid and got hit in the head with a "soft" rock. Didn't make sense back then and doesn't now. Of course, I still have yet to recover.:D

Olympic Fan
12-29-2007, 11:24 AM
I'm still not making myself clear, and I apologize. Reggie Love was not a big-time basketball recruit. Far from it.

Jumbo, you couldn't be more wrong about Love' status.

In the spring of 2000, I sat with two NBA scouts on press row at a Gibbons-sponsored prep all-star game at Lawrence Joel in Winston-Salem and was surprised when they suggested that Love was the best NBA prospect on the floor in a game that included more than a dozen ACC, SEC and Big East prospects (I recall that Cliff Hawkins, Scooter Sherrill, Michael Joiner, AJ Moye were all playing). He was a borderline top 100 recruit, which may not sound like much to Duke fans used to signing umpteen McDonald's A-A each year, but is pretty big-time in the national scheme of things.

Love committed early to Duke football ... but he would have been an ACC recruit in basketball, if he'd chosen to go that route. No, he was not a top 50 guy like Pryor, but he was definitely a big-time basketball prospect.

Pryor is going to face the problems of combining football and basketball whereerver he goes. If he signs with Michigan, as expected, he'll be playing in a New Year's Day bowl most seasons and won't be able to join the basketball team until January. At Duke, he'd have a chance to join the hoop team in late November (at least for the first couple of years).

As for K's supposed reluctance to allow Pryor to walk on ... I just don't see where that is coming from. Coach K had made it clear that he's anxious to help Cutcliffe in any way possible and in the past, he's worked with football coaches to recruit players with football-basketball ambitions. Some (such as Love and D Bryant) did play both sports. Some (Battier's little brother, Lance Johnson) didn't. Very recently, he tried to help Ted recruit Marcellus Bennett, the stud TE from Texas, who was a top 50 basketball recruit -- rated just about the same place nationally in basketball as Pryor.

I'm sure he'd be honest in recruiting Pryor -- making it clear that it would be difficult for a late-arriving player to earn a significant playing role ... but as I mentioned, that's going to be true whereever he goes. If a kid like Pryor wants to play two sports, he's got to weigh his options -- at a Duke, he'd have a great chance to make an impact in football and a tough task to do the same in basketball; at Michigan, it would be harder to crack the football rotation and somewhat easier (but still not easy) in basketball; Penn State would be nearly as tough as Michigan in football, but easier in basketball.

It all depends on what the kid wants.

Bob Green reports that Pryor has said he's a football-only guy in college. I hadn't heard that, but Bob is much better informed than I am, so I trust his info. That makes this whole debate moot.

Like most of the people posting on this threat, I suspect Pryor is a real longshot for Duke, but I do think that his interest is a sign of the impact Cutcliffe will have on our program. We might not get this stud QB, but I have no doubt that he'll be signing some top-rated throwers in the next few years.

Mike Corey
12-29-2007, 11:46 AM
I am guessing that James and Daniels are still solid verbals, right?

Yes, not to worry.

Bluedawg
12-29-2007, 12:14 PM
What is the latest on the coaching staff. How many hires have been made. I assume they will start Jan 2 with Coach Cutcliffe

Jumbo
12-29-2007, 01:24 PM
Jumbo, you couldn't be more wrong about Love' status.
I couldn't be more wrong? I imagine if I'd said Reggie Love was the #1 player in the Class of 2000, I'd have been more wrong.


In the spring of 2000, I sat with two NBA scouts on press row at a Gibbons-sponsored prep all-star game at Lawrence Joel in Winston-Salem and was surprised when they suggested that Love was the best NBA prospect on the floor in a game that included more than a dozen ACC, SEC and Big East prospects (I recall that Cliff Hawkins, Scooter Sherrill, Michael Joiner, AJ Moye were all playing). He was a borderline top 100 recruit, which may not sound like much to Duke fans used to signing umpteen McDonald's A-A each year, but is pretty big-time in the national scheme of things.

I assume you're talking about the North-South All-Star Game. The game featured mostly mid-level guys, but two guys who did play were Jason Parker and Chris Wilcox. I hate to doubt your memory, but there is simply no way anyone would have told you a 6'5" power forward was a better NBA prospect at that point than Jason Parker (Wilcox was a late-riser). Now, I hate to doubt your memory ... but I doubt your memory. An early article said "He's also a well-regarded basketball prospect, who was receiving interest from schools such as Old Dominion and Georgetown." That's sort of a big disparity -- I wonder how hard Georgetown was recruiting him. I'll concede that Love might've been more highly regarded coming out of high school than I recognized, but to it's a real leap to have considered him an NBA prospect.

BTW, as I was searching old articles, I came across this gem: "Franks also has a shot at 6-6 Ben Roethlisberger, a record-setting quarterback from Findlay, Ohio, who until this year was rated higher as a basketball prospect." Ugh.


Love committed early to Duke football ... but he would have been an ACC recruit in basketball, if he'd chosen to go that route. No, he was not a top 50 guy like Pryor, but he was definitely a big-time basketball prospect.

None of the articles I read express that. Some from very early in his career talk about his drawing some ACC, SEC and Pac-10 interest. But nothing indicates that he was a "big-time" prospect later in his career, or that ACC teams woudl have been lining up to get him. The point is that when he came to Duke, he didn't expect to get minutes. Pryor, wherever he goes, will expect to play. He's on a different level, talent-wise.


Pryor is going to face the problems of combining football and basketball whereerver he goes. If he signs with Michigan, as expected, he'll be playing in a New Year's Day bowl most seasons and won't be able to join the basketball team until January. At Duke, he'd have a chance to join the hoop team in late November (at least for the first couple of years).

Absolutely. But, since he's a better football player, it makes sense for him to pull a Charlie Ward -- find a football school where he can succeed with a basketball program that's happy to have him for as long as possible. Michigan would be perfect right now.


As for K's supposed reluctance to allow Pryor to walk on ... I just don't see where that is coming from. Coach K had made it clear that he's anxious to help Cutcliffe in any way possible and in the past, he's worked with football coaches to recruit players with football-basketball ambitions. Some (such as Love and D Bryant) did play both sports. Some (Battier's little brother, Lance Johnson) didn't. Very recently, he tried to help Ted recruit Marcellus Bennett, the stud TE from Texas, who was a top 50 basketball recruit -- rated just about the same place nationally in basketball as Pryor.

It's called a hypothetical. There could be plenty of reasons why K might be reluctant. He hasn't been involved with Pryor at all to this point, meaning it's late in the game to assess his character and develop a relationship. I've never said K definitely would not help in this regard. But I'm saying people should open their mind to the fact that this is not a no-brainer decision for Coach K.


I'm sure he'd be honest in recruiting Pryor -- making it clear that it would be difficult for a late-arriving player to earn a significant playing role ... but as I mentioned, that's going to be true whereever he goes. If a kid like Pryor wants to play two sports, he's got to weigh his options -- at a Duke, he'd have a great chance to make an impact in football and a tough task to do the same in basketball; at Michigan, it would be harder to crack the football rotation and somewhat easier (but still not easy) in basketball; Penn State would be nearly as tough as Michigan in football, but easier in basketball.

Pryor will have no trouble cracking anyone's football lineup. Anyone's. Maybe he'll sit a year just to learn the offense. But the kid is unreal.


Bob Green reports that Pryor has said he's a football-only guy in college. I hadn't heard that, but Bob is much better informed than I am, so I trust his info. That makes this whole debate moot.
The article Bob linked didn't even include a quote. And the same day, he told USA Today that he'd rather play in the NBA than the NFL. The kid is all over the map.


Like most of the people posting on this threat, I suspect Pryor is a real longshot for Duke, but I do think that his interest is a sign of the impact Cutcliffe will have on our program. We might not get this stud QB, but I have no doubt that he'll be signing some top-rated throwers in the next few years.

Agreed. Just being mentioned every time someone talks about Pryor can do wonders for future recruiting.

Olympic Fan
12-30-2007, 11:28 AM
I assume you're talking about the North-South All-Star Game. The game featured mostly mid-level guys, but two guys who did play were Jason Parker and Chris Wilcox. I hate to doubt your memory, but there is simply no way anyone would have told you a 6'5" power forward was a better NBA prospect at that point than Jason Parker (Wilcox was a late-riser). Now, I hate to doubt your memory ... but I doubt your memory.

I still have the box score from the game ... neither Wilcox nor Parker played that night. You might be confusing the 2000 game with the 1999 game, played in Raleigh's Reynolds Coliseum, where Parker (who was expecting to go to UNC ... his quest to qualify was just beginning) played, along with another bunch of mid-level prospects, including Nick Horvath, who won the 3-point shooting contest.

Sherrill, who was an inexplicable McDonald's All-America choice, was probably the best prospect at the 2000 game in Winston-Salem. There was also a lot of interest in Hawkins -- after Kentucky lost Chris Duhon to Duke, they landed Hawkins and began touting him as BETTER than Duhon.

As for Love's NBA chances, the whole point was that he had the strength and the agility to become an NBA wing guard. Nobody was saying that he was going to be a lottery pick -- what the pro guys wanted to see was whether Love could develop the ballhandling and shooting skills that would allow him to play that position in the NBA. Obviously, he didn't -- but that wasn't as clear in the spring of 2000 as it is now.

Jumbo
12-30-2007, 11:44 AM
I still have the box score from the game ... neither Wilcox nor Parker played that night. You might be confusing the 2000 game with the 1999 game, played in Raleigh's Reynolds Coliseum, where Parker (who was expecting to go to UNC ... his quest to qualify was just beginning) played, along with another bunch of mid-level prospects, including Nick Horvath, who won the 3-point shooting contest.

Looks like there were actually two games there. The first was some North-South game, followed the next day by ACC vs. USA recruits.

Love played in the lesser game. Per the Herald-Sun:

April 15, 2000 Saturday
Final Edition
Hokies' recruit shines in North-South All-Star game

BYLINE: By AL FEATHERSTON The Herald-Sun

"Virginia Tech recruit Danny Gathings won MVP honors as he outshined several ACC recruits in leading the North All-Stars to an 88-74 victory over the South All-Stars Friday night in the preliminary game to tonight's ACC-USA Hoops Challenge.
That contest, which will match 11 ACC recruits against 12 prospects from around the country, starts at 7:30 p.m. at Lawrence Joel Coliseum. Among the players participating are UNC recruits Adam Boone and Jason Parker, Duke recruitd Andre Sweet, Maryland recruit Chris Wilcox, FSU recruit Michael Joiner, N.C. State recruits Michael Bell and Trey Guidry and French forward Liberto Tetimadingar, who is trying to decide between Clemson and Wake Forest."

Later in the story: "And Reggie Love of Charlotte, who is attending Duke on a football scholarship (but plans to walk on in basketball), had two points and five rebounds for the losing South."

jimsumner
12-30-2007, 01:12 PM
Well, two points and five rebounds. That settles it. I can see why the NBA scouts were drooling. :)

You can tell it's been too long between games when we are arguing about the high-school basketball abilities of a former football player. Reggie picked the right sport. But he did make Haywood blink a couple of times in March
'01, so that's worth something.

Patrick Yates
12-30-2007, 01:54 PM
I hate to say it, but the Pryor visit may be entirely selfish on the kids part.

I would bet that he is pretty sure that he is going to OSU or Michigan, and since his future is on the gridiron, who can blame him. Still, he has 2-3 official visits left over, cause he hasn't taken any yet.

Why not come to Duke to visit? Cause guess what happens on official visits in the winter/spring? The FB coach gets the recruit, and his nearest and dearest, tickets to a big home BB game. Hey, is Duke a great place to see a decent home environment for a hoops game? Yes, you say. Well, I'll be jiggered.

Frankly, I do not blame the kid. He likes Cutcliff, and Duke is a prestigious school, especially academically. He will get to see a great home hoops game against somebody good (though not UNC, too late this year, bummer). Even if he has no serious interest in Duke.

And you know what? Who Cares if he is using Cut for free Hoops tickets to CIS? This will be huge news even getting a visit from Pryor. This will raise our profile nationally, and lead to a couple of quality recruits. Cut will schedule some other good (for Duke) recruits that weekend, and we WILL get a few of those.

Props to Pryor for scoring some impossible tickets, which will only help Duke's image.

Patrick Yates

Jumbo
12-30-2007, 02:26 PM
I hate to say it, but the Pryor visit may be entirely selfish on the kids part.

I would bet that he is pretty sure that he is going to OSU or Michigan, and since his future is on the gridiron, who can blame him. Still, he has 2-3 official visits left over, cause he hasn't taken any yet.

Why not come to Duke to visit? Cause guess what happens on official visits in the winter/spring? The FB coach gets the recruit, and his nearest and dearest, tickets to a big home BB game. Hey, is Duke a great place to see a decent home environment for a hoops game? Yes, you say. Well, I'll be jiggered.

Frankly, I do not blame the kid. He likes Cutcliff, and Duke is a prestigious school, especially academically. He will get to see a great home hoops game against somebody good (though not UNC, too late this year, bummer). Even if he has no serious interest in Duke.

And you know what? Who Cares if he is using Cut for free Hoops tickets to CIS? This will be huge news even getting a visit from Pryor. This will raise our profile nationally, and lead to a couple of quality recruits. Cut will schedule some other good (for Duke) recruits that weekend, and we WILL get a few of those.

Props to Pryor for scoring some impossible tickets, which will only help Duke's image.

Patrick Yates

What is the point of that post? It's complete speculation and you're basically making assumptions about a kid's character based on exactly zero information. I'm still waiting for you to respond to your "Boozer/Brand/Williams" points, btw. Cat got your tongue? Or just afraid to respond when someone calls out your nonsense?

yancem
12-30-2007, 02:28 PM
I still have the box score from the game ... neither Wilcox nor Parker played that night. You might be confusing the 2000 game with the 1999 game, played in Raleigh's Reynolds Coliseum, where Parker (who was expecting to go to UNC ... his quest to qualify was just beginning) played, along with another bunch of mid-level prospects, including Nick Horvath, who won the 3-point shooting contest.

I remember Horvath being touted as a good outside shooter out of highschool but that certainly didn't jive with what I saw during his career at Duke. The way he shot the 3 at Duke I would be surprised he could win a contest against 3rd graders.

jimsumner
12-30-2007, 02:42 PM
Horvath was 18-50 on 3s as a freshman. But then he had some injuries, bulked up quite a bit to play inside and lost his touch. Not sure if it was the injuries, the weight, both, or something else but he was a pretty good perimeter shooter when he came to Duke.

jmb
12-30-2007, 02:50 PM
He made a big one against DePaul. That's all that matters to me.

formerdukeathlete
12-30-2007, 05:43 PM
I hate to say it, but the Pryor visit may be entirely selfish on the kids part.

I would bet that he is pretty sure that he is going to OSU or Michigan, and since his future is on the gridiron, who can blame him. Still, he has 2-3 official visits left over, cause he hasn't taken any yet.

Why not come to Duke to visit? Cause guess what happens on official visits in the winter/spring? The FB coach gets the recruit, and his nearest and dearest, tickets to a big home BB game. Hey, is Duke a great place to see a decent home environment for a hoops game? Yes, you say. Well, I'll be jiggered.

.........
Patrick Yates

I think Pryor actually has interest in Duke...third hand, but from a Pittsburgh fellow...etc., etc....for what it is worth, I hear he has interest in Duke.

So, based on such admittedly unreliable third-hand, his interest is three fold:

- he would start as a freshman at QB sometime within the first half of the season - not promised him, but his high school coach's expectation. he would leave early to go pro and the pt at Duke would be beneficial.

- he would play b'ball for half to three-quarters a season and for the best - K.

- he would attend a top academic school.

So I do not know whether K is ok with point two or whether Cut will agree to point two. But, while we are swinging here in the breeze, at least let us consider that Pryor may have genuine interest in Duke for these reasons.

ohioguy2
12-30-2007, 09:17 PM
That would be nice. If academics are important to him, no way would he be headed to Ohio State.


Unfortunately, at least in my eyes, OSU is actually improving their academic standing at a rapid pace. Since it is a huge institution, there are many ways to attend school and not take any challenging courses; however, the place actually has opportunity for those who wish to be challenged. Several years ago anyone who was alive at the time of high school graduation could easily be admitted--that has changed dramatically. Yeah, I know, athletes are given different criteria for admittance--but that is so in almost every place--as it is for the talented in many fields.

Mike Corey
12-30-2007, 10:08 PM
Unfortunately, at least in my eyes, OSU is actually improving their academic standing at a rapid pace. Since it is a huge institution, there are many ways to attend school and not take any challenging courses; however, the place actually has opportunity for those who wish to be challenged. Several years ago anyone who was alive at the time of high school graduation could easily be admitted--that has changed dramatically. Yeah, I know, athletes are given different criteria for admittance--but that is so in almost every place--as it is for the talented in many fields.

The past five years have seen Ohio State's admissions standards increase significantly, both at the undergraduate level and in the various graduate programs.

Consider, in the infamous U.S. News rankings, OSU comes in at 57th overall, ahead of schools with superior academic reputations such as Miami University of Ohio, Boston University and Virginia Tech. That marks a significant jump from previous years. In terms of graduate programs, OSU's political science department was ranked 4th-best in the world by the London School of Economics a few years ago; the business school has ranked as high as 18th; the med school as high as 20th; and the law school has jumped something like 10 spots in the past five years to 33rd or something like that. Further, the National Science Foundation declared OSU one of the top ten public research universities in the country in 2005.

OSU will never be confused for Northwestern, but it's dedicating its energy and resources toward being a far more prominent and worthy academic institution, and strides have been made so that it is a better school than it was ten, twenty, thirty years ago....sort of like a private school in North Carolina we all hold so dear.

OldPhiKap
12-30-2007, 11:01 PM
strides have been made so that it is a better school than it was ten, twenty, thirty years ago....sort of like a private school in North Carolina we all hold so dear.

We don't care that much about Wake.


(Um, that was what you were talking about, right? ;>) )

devildeac
12-31-2007, 12:10 AM
We don't care that much about Wake.


(Um, that was what you were talking about, right? ;>) )

Now, I am really confused as I thought he was talking about Davidson-double;)

Mike Corey
12-31-2007, 12:37 AM
Do I get an assist on those two, or what?

Man, I need to do a better job of coming up with conclusions. :)

devildeac
12-31-2007, 08:25 AM
Do I get an assist on those two, or what?

Man, I need to do a better job of coming up with conclusions. :)

You get an assist for EACH of those set ups for us two wise guys to score:D

alteran
12-31-2007, 09:06 AM
I hate to say it, but the Pryor visit may be entirely selfish on the kids part....

Regardless of whether this turns out to be the case, I wouldn't really care if he doesn't think he's all that serious about Duke-- you never know what's gonna happen when you get a kid on a campus.

Jason Williams was forced to look at Duke by his mom when he KNEW he was going to Rutgers. Sometime during his visit he quit rolling his eyes and fell in love with the place.

Like everyone else has said, being mentioned in the same breath with this kid is nothing but upside for Duke at this point, regardless of whether he comes here or not.

And there's a reason people bet on longshots-- sometimes, they pay off.

OldPhiKap
12-31-2007, 09:42 AM
You get an assist for EACH of those set ups for us two wise guys to score:D

Agreed. You got two lay-ups out of that one.

yancem
01-02-2008, 09:17 AM
I was watching a football recruiting thing on ESPNU last night and they were talking about the class of '08's top QB's and Pryor wasn't on the list. Is he not a senior?

Clipsfan
01-02-2008, 01:07 PM
He made a big one against DePaul. That's all that matters to me.

Didn't Horvath bank that one in, or am I misremembering it?

uncwdevil
01-02-2008, 02:41 PM
Didn't Horvath bank that one in, or am I misremembering it?

yep, he banked it in from the top of the key, still remember where i was when i saw that one

Carlos
01-02-2008, 03:06 PM
I clearly remember it as nothing but net ;)

OldPhiKap
01-02-2008, 03:08 PM
I clearly remember it as nothing but net ;)

I clearly remember him yelling "BANK!" as he put it up. So, if he called it as he shot it's all good.

Classof06
01-02-2008, 04:40 PM
I was watching a football recruiting thing on ESPNU last night and they were talking about the class of '08's top QB's and Pryor wasn't on the list. Is he not a senior?

Pryor's a senior. ESPN has a special position they make up for HS recruits called "athlete" (ATH). They use this for kids that they think might end up playing different positions in college than they do/did in HS. For instance, Ohio State didn't recruit Troy Smith as a QB, even though he played QB in high school; they recruited him as an "athlete" and he even returned kicks early in his career. Pryor is ESPN's top-ranked athlete recruit. Before he started getting a lot of national pub, people thought Pryor might end up changing positions in college; everyone knows he can scramble but lots of people think he needs to heavily refine his passing skills if he wants to be a legit D-1 QB.

The reason the "athlete" designation is stupid in Pryor's case is that for any one of these blue-chip programs to get him, they'll need to assure him he's going to play QB so I personally don't see him playing any other position.

yancem
01-02-2008, 09:01 PM
Pryor's a senior. ESPN has a special position they make up for HS recruits called "athlete" (ATH). They use this for kids that they think might end up playing different positions in college than they do/did in HS. For instance, Ohio State didn't recruit Troy Smith as a QB, even though he played QB in high school; they recruited him as an "athlete" and he even returned kicks early in his career. Pryor is ESPN's top-ranked athlete recruit. Before he started getting a lot of national pub, people thought Pryor might end up changing positions in college; everyone knows he can scramble but lots of people think he needs to heavily refine his passing skills if he wants to be a legit D-1 QB.

The reason the "athlete" designation is stupid in Pryor's case is that for any one of these blue-chip programs to get him, they'll need to assure him he's going to play QB so I personally don't see him playing any other position.

Thanks for clearing that up:)

The Sandman
01-02-2008, 10:01 PM
Didn't Horvath bank that one in, or am I misremembering it?

It was most definitely a bank--one of the ugliest outside shots of the past decade. I remember it rattling around the rim for a while as well

The Sandman
01-02-2008, 10:09 PM
On topic, I think that even the naysayers who claim that we literally do not have a chance at Pryor ("There is always hope" -- Gandalf :) ) have to be ecstatic about this development because it speaks volumes about Cutcliffe's knack for drawing the interest of big-time recruits. Apparently, what's impressed Pryor most about Cutcliffe is his sage-like understanding of offensive tactics. Here's a link to a Q & A chat session he had with cyber-fans this afternoon.

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?cid=756593

The quote that I'm basing my observation on reads
"Yes, if I was any other recruit I'd give them [Duke] a look too because he's going to make it happen there. [Cutcliffe's] a smart guy and he knows his football."

Now, if the top high school football players in the country start believing that Duke football is headed for a revival, maybe some will want to come be a part of it...

OZZIE4DUKE
01-02-2008, 10:31 PM
Here's a link to a Q & A chat session he had with cyber-fans this afternoon.

http://rivals100.rivals.com/content.asp?cid=756593



Since when did Duke start offering Criminal Justice as a major?


1. Have you decided on what you want to major in yet?

2. Does any school listed appeal more to you because of your major?

-altball24

Pryor - "Criminal Justice. That's the only thing that is interesting to me.

"The major I picked, everyone has and they're good at it.

DevilWolf
01-02-2008, 10:48 PM
Since yesterday ... department chair is listed as M. Nifong.

The Sandman
01-02-2008, 11:30 PM
Can he major in Restoring a Long-Dead Football Program to National Prominence? I can't find it in the undergraduate course instruction manual, but then again, I'm not reading very carefully

billybreen
01-03-2008, 12:42 AM
It was most definitely a bank--one of the ugliest outside shots of the past decade. I remember it rattling around the rim for a while as well

Yes, it was a bank, and they probably needed to hammer a ding out of the backboard afterwards. That thing was gross, but it went in.

ikiru36
01-03-2008, 12:49 PM
Since when did Duke start offering Criminal Justice as a major?

I'm guessing that he was still speaking of Tennessee when thinking of Coach Cut, as that is pretty clearly the reason he's considering Duke now. While I don't think we have a Criminal Justice major (I could be wrong), for serious students at other schools it sometimes works as a Pre-Law (obviously with a specific criminal bent) degree. I think that it often pre-curses police work as well. I imagine Duke can come up with a relative equivalent, if different in name, given that we've got a pretty good law school and a tradition of some flexibility in design of majors (assuming this tradition continues.) Perhaps an Undergraduate adjunct to this (http://news.duke.edu/2007/09/law_center.html)?

Nevertheless, if Duke doesn't have such a program, officially, it does probably mean that Pryor has not yet closely looked at Duke's academic programs. If/When he does, if he's serious about the academic side at all, I feel pretty good about what he'll find with us! :0)

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LetItBD08
01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
Not sure if this is an option, but if it comes to it and he's very serious about what he wants to pursue, he might look at Program II (http://t-reqs.trinity.duke.edu/program2.html). I don't really know many people who have done this (and the ones that I have heard of usually focus on some very specific/interdisciplinary theme, not simply criminal justice.) But I'd imagine that if he has the drive, he could tailor his major to a field that he's truly interested in with a criminal justice theme.

grimbogey
01-03-2008, 09:38 PM
Not sure if this is an option, but if it comes to it and he's very serious about what he wants to pursue, he might look at Program II (http://t-reqs.trinity.duke.edu/program2.html). I don't really know many people who have done this (and the ones that I have heard of usually focus on some very specific/interdisciplinary theme, not simply criminal justice.) But I'd imagine that if he has the drive, he could tailor his major to a field that he's truly interested in with a criminal justice theme.

You're spot on that this would be a way to do a CJ major if one wanted and Duke offers some great classes on the subject in related fields like public policy. But my understanding is that Program II applications are pretty tough to get successfully developed and approved (much harder than the admissions people make it sound!). I don't know about anyone who is pursuing it in my class, but I've heard that only two people out of the entire Class of 2009 were approved for Program II. I don't really know how hard it is to do, but it might be tough for someone to balance a major D-I sport (or two) with all the administrative rigmarole it takes to get the program developed, approved and completed.

Trinity '10

LetItBD08
01-04-2008, 12:42 AM
Yeah, I figured it's probably not all that realistic. My knowledge of Program II is very limited, and it does seem like it takes a large commitment to even be considered.

formerdukeathlete
01-04-2008, 10:10 AM
Yeah, I figured it's probably not all that realistic. My knowledge of Program II is very limited, and it does seem like it takes a large commitment to even be considered.

http://catalog.wcu.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=4&poid=7

looking at the UNC on-line program offered through Western Carolina, I would submit that much of what one could, would study in a major program, Terrelle Pryor could be exposed to at Duke and through the resources Duke would offer. Several Sociology courses, one or two psych courses, public policy courses, would be relevant. Duke has had athletes go into law enforcement. Cary Rosoff, a late 70s footballer, has had a career in the secret service. We have a fair number of Dukies in the FBI, whether they were athletes or otherwise.

A Duke education which T. Pryor took seriously and worked hard with would help him achieve career goals outside of, after football and basketball.

Spret42
01-04-2008, 11:21 AM
He's supposed to be a Vince Young type QB who can pass.


Vince Young can pass, the problem is that he can't read a defense and pass to the right freaking guy.