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View Full Version : Well done, Shelden!



Lavabe
12-26-2007, 09:56 PM
Atlanta Hawks 107 - Indiana Pacers 95

Shelden gets a double-double (10pts, 10 rebounds) in 19 minutes.

Cheers,
Lavabe

weezie
12-26-2007, 09:59 PM
Excellent! That's our guy there!!!

lavell12
12-26-2007, 10:01 PM
Ya I was following him tonight he scores a lot and gets a lot of boards considering the amount of mins he plays. give the man some more PT!!

DukeBlood
12-26-2007, 10:12 PM
Does anyone know why he doesn't see alot of action?

It seems like when he does get 20+ minutes he does good things. He may not put up offensive numbers like Marvin Williams. However he is a way better defensive player and a decent post player.

sagegrouse
12-26-2007, 10:29 PM
Imagine if he played 35-40.

sagegrouse

dukemomLA
12-27-2007, 12:57 AM
I also followed this game closely. Shelden is proving himself to be a GREAT defensive force in the NBA -- (....unfortunately where D is not truly appreciated).

If his O (....sigh....the balliwick of the NBA) keeps going as it is, he'll get more minutes and be appreciated as he should.

GO SHELDEN!!!

ugadevil
12-27-2007, 01:37 AM
Shelden gets a double-double and the Hawks have won five straight! This team is playing well. Hope it keeps up.

nicktonyg22
12-27-2007, 01:52 AM
This is the type of contribution that Shelden can make, and can improve upon if he continues to get minutes. He never had quite the touch that Boozer did, which means his scoring numbers wont be so high, but he always finished strong and shot free throws at a pretty good percentage. those factors, combined with his rebounding ability and defensive prowess will allow him to stay in the NBA somewhere. Don't forget its also only his second year in the league! Boozer didn't truly blossom until about his third year IIRC.

monkey
12-27-2007, 10:26 AM
This is the type of contribution that Shelden can make, and can improve upon if he continues to get minutes. He never had quite the touch that Boozer did, which means his scoring numbers wont be so high, but he always finished strong and shot free throws at a pretty good percentage. those factors, combined with his rebounding ability and defensive prowess will allow him to stay in the NBA somewhere. Don't forget its also only his second year in the league! Boozer didn't truly blossom until about his third year IIRC.

No dig on Carlos, who has developed himself into quite a player, but I always thought Shelden was the stronger player of the two (though not quite as offensively polished, as you say). I still think that Shelden could develop into an all-star caliber NBA player. Even if he doesn't become a 20-10 guy, which I think he should, no reason he can't be Charles Oakley (15-10)

greybeard
12-27-2007, 11:03 AM
Shelden's minutes have been kept down due to Woody's poor (in my opinion) offensive concepts which have been improving as of late.

Atlanta has never in Woody's reign utilized pass penetration to the 4-5s as the pivot point of the offense. In the past, it has been rare that inside guys get multiple touches in any offensive half court set, or early touches. In fact, they usually get touches in positions and at times that make effective offensive play extremely difficult.

That appears to be changing. JSmith has improved his pass penetration from the high post, and often (in the one game I saw recently) looks to it as a first option. JJ has yet to really come around. However, having not seen last night's game, I'd have to think that JJ was getting the ball inside as a first look, which is when bigs usually have the advantage.

When Atlanta commits to getting the ball inside early and often as an integral part of their offense, Shelden will shine. Atlanta's offensive play will also improve, and will be less subject to stars like JJ having a "hot" hand.

I saw much more of that when they played the Wizzards, but not nearly enough. Marvin breaks down defenses with his catches inside the defense, and creates defensive catch up which in turn creates all kinds of passing openings. Atlanta needs to create deliberate inside catches to create inside out play. Then Marvin will get his time, plenty of it. And, he will produce.

I believe that that is coming.

ugadevil
12-27-2007, 11:16 AM
I saw much more of that when they played the Wizzards, but not nearly enough. Marvin breaks down defenses with his catches inside the defense, and creates defensive catch up which in turn creates all kinds of passing openings. Atlanta needs to create deliberate inside catches to create inside out play. Then Marvin will get his time, plenty of it. And, he will produce.

I believe that that is coming.

So who are you pulling for to get playing time? Marvin Williams? Or Shelden Williams?

greybeard
12-27-2007, 11:32 AM
So who are you pulling for to get playing time? Marvin Williams? Or Shelden Williams?

There are plenty of minutes for both. The guy whose minutes will diminish, in my opinion, is ZaZa. JSmoov can also use more rests. There are times when he is taking them on the court, which, given Shelden's talents, are unnnecessary.

JJ cannot, or should I say should not, be playing 40 minutes a night. In my view, particularly in the first halves of games, he should be getting some rest. I think that Marvin can play the two.

It remains to be seen whether Smoov can play the 3 effectively. I see real issues with distance control on his shot that make playing the 3 for him a difficult proposition. I think that they are correctable (I have suggested ways that he might explore improvement on the ajc). If Smoov could improve his effectiveness as a 3, and take his new-found penetrating passing awareness/skills to that position, then this team could go big in an effective way.

When Marvin and Horford are on the court together, I would bring Horford high and let Marvin work inside. I see Horford more comfortable and effective as a high 4 than Marvin. Whatever number you put on him, Marvin gets appropriate touches near the basket, he'll know when he has it, and will deliver.

This is the pros. There are an incredible number of games of 48 minute duration. The minutes will be there for Shelden and Marvin; Shelden will get them as the offense, I trust under Drew's influence this season, continues to evolve into an effective share-the-ball system with much more inside-out play to it.

The key is JJ, who has let go of some of the all-things-flow-through-me mindset that Woody nurtured and he readily accepted, but who still has a ways to go, in my opinion, if the Hawks are to reach their potential.

greybeard
12-27-2007, 04:00 PM
The paragraph beginning "When Marvin and Horford . . .", please substitute "Shelden" for "Marvin" throughout. :o

Biscuit King
12-27-2007, 04:26 PM
Shelden will have a useful NBA career, but it probably won't be in Atlanta. Woodson has buried him in the rotation, and everyone around the franchise has anointed Horford as the 4/5 of the future.

Even if they let Josh Smith walk at the end of this year -- which they should do, but probably won't -- Shelden's minutes are blocked.

He'll go to another team in a trade or a cheap FA deal and he will put up low double-double numbers (12 and 10) for a number of years, if given the minutes. There's just not a bright future for him in Atlanta, which frankly is a blessing for him, since that team is aspiring to mediocrity.

greybeard
12-27-2007, 05:39 PM
Shelden will have a useful NBA career, but it probably won't be in Atlanta. Woodson has buried him in the rotation, and everyone around the franchise has anointed Horford as the 4/5 of the future.

Even if they let Josh Smith walk at the end of this year -- which they should do, but probably won't -- Shelden's minutes are blocked.

He'll go to another team in a trade or a cheap FA deal and he will put up low double-double numbers (12 and 10) for a number of years, if given the minutes. There's just not a bright future for him in Atlanta, which frankly is a blessing for him, since that team is aspiring to mediocrity.

Solid take, but it ain't over until the fat lady sings.

BTW, I'd trade JS, not let him walk; I think the Spirit, if they have the dough, will do neither. If they don't, which is entirely possible, they can't just let him walk. A sign and trade will happen.

The absence of a one-pick next year will hurt them big time.