McRoberts

[Uncle Drew]

Now with Green back in Portland, will Josh McRoberts travel to Idaho to get some run and experience? Weeks ago McMillan did say sending Green and McRoberts to the D-league was an option, either together or individually. And now that Green has seen been there and done that, is McRoberts next?

McRoberts last played against San Antonio on December 5th, where he logged five minutes and went scoreless in the Blazers loss. Before that, McRoberts saw one minute in a November 15th loss at Charlotte.

Regardless of what I thought of his decision to leave early, I really hate it for the guy things are going better in the NBA. I hope if he does get sent to Idaho I hope he likes potatoes and he gets back in game shape and back into a Portland uniform very quickly.


I was thinking about him last week and imagining him and his role in the new revamped Duke offense if he'd done the wise thing and stayed another year. First off I think Coach K would have still gone to this new system even if Duke didn't have front court deficiencies. And truthfully banging down under the glass and rebounding weren't Josh's strong suits anyway. Additional height to this years team would have been an obvious added bonus. But as great a passer as Josh is I think it would have made this already good team great. I still think Duke would have trouble with certain opposing centers they will / could face this season. But in my opinion this offense would have suited McRoberts much better than the sets Duke ran last year. One thing the guy did do was take the ball strong to the hole when a player penetrated and dished off. I can't help but imagine how a guy like Nolan Smith and Josh could have worked so well together. I could also see times when a Zoubek and McRoberts tag team against smaller teams, or just to match other teams height would work better with this team than it did last year.


I know, I know, what's done is done and I for one need to analyze the past less and focus on the present and future. But with him back and then seeing how well Duke is playing now I can easily see them being one of if not THE elite team.

[DukeU3x]

I won't usually say this, but it seems like Josh is enveloped in "bad karma"...22-11, first round loss, and drafted by Portland. I thought his entry into the draft was premature, even if K didn't. Nevertheless, it is impossible to argue with someone taking millions instead of another anthro class.

We could use his athleticism any year, but I was never confident in his skills at either end of the court. He was a key player on last year's team, but oftentimes it seemed to me his D was shaky and his O was built around collecting the garbage. That would explain possibly being sent down to get experience.

I guess I'm saying that I wish him no ill, but I'm not surprised.

[Karl Beem]

I swear you never saw McBobs play.

[SMO]

I swear you never saw McBobs play.

I hear you, man. Take the name McRoberts out of some of the phrases you see written on this board about him and you'd think people were talking about Gregg Newton.

[Lavabe]

Nevertheless, it is impossible to argue with someone taking millions instead of another anthro class.

Oh great!:rolleyes: Thanks.:rolleyes: As an anthropologist, I appreciate that remark! It's amazing that the offers are never weighed vs. chemistry, physics, biology, English, nor public policy.;)

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Huh?]

I pretend McRoberts never played at Duke.

[Karl Beem]

I pretend McRoberts never played at Duke.

Great third post!:o

[Flyers52]

I think if we had another big man (ie Shelden) to complement McRoberts last year, then we would've been more successful. His freshman year, he was the perfect 4, because the D was always attracted to JJ and Shel, and McBob was perfect for that role. Last year, had we had a great 5 man, McBob would've flourished. I would have liked to have seen both him and Singler be on the court together this year, but I guess McBob, his mother, and K had other things in mind.

[Karl Beem]

I think if we had another big man (ie Shelden) to complement McRoberts last year, then we would've been more successful. His freshman year, he was the perfect 4, because the D was always attracted to JJ and Shel, and McBob was perfect for that role. Last year, had we had a great 5 man, McBob would've flourished. I would have liked to have seen both him and Singler be on the court together this year, but I guess McBob, his mother, and K had other things in mind.

Agreed. We'd be 10-0.

[dukie8]

I think if we had another big man (ie Shelden) to complement McRoberts last year, then we would've been more successful. His freshman year, he was the perfect 4, because the D was always attracted to JJ and Shel, and McBob was perfect for that role. Last year, had we had a great 5 man, McBob would've flourished. I would have liked to have seen both him and Singler be on the court together this year, but I guess McBob, his mother, and K had other things in mind.

what team wouldn't be better with an additional first team aa and one of the best defensive players in duke's history???

[dukie8]

We could use his athleticism any year, but I was never confident in his skills at either end of the court. He was a key player on last year's team, but oftentimes it seemed to me his D was shaky and his O was built around collecting the garbage.

shaky D??? did you even watch him play last year? say what you will about his attitude and his offensive skills but night in and night out his d was extremely strong.

[lavell12]

If we had McRoberts Thrusday night we would have beaten Pitt b/c Lance and Zoubek aren't in the same league as Josh. Blair wouldn't have dominated Josh.

[Flyers52]

Dukie8, I'm not saying having Shelden again, but a player of Shelden's caliber, or someone who is a good legit 5. Zoubek hasn't been progressing, and Lance isn't a 5, neither is Singler. If we had a decent, traditional 5...it would have been a different story

[dukie8]

Dukie8, I'm not saying having Shelden again, but a player of Shelden's caliber, or someone who is a good legit 5. Zoubek hasn't been progressing, and Lance isn't a 5, neither is Singler. If we had a decent, traditional 5...it would have been a different story

shel's "caliber" is a consensus first team aa and one of the best players ever suit it up at duke. again, ANY team would be better, much better, if you inserted someone of that caliber into the lineup.

[devilirium]

We would've had a terrible record last year without him. He could pass and block shots.

But I have it on good authority that Josh put himself in a position where he couldn't return. He didn't like to hit the books, and he was too emotionally immature to make a mark on this team. The situation on the bench at home vs. Carolina was a glimpse that he couldn't take criticism and thrive.

Even so, I hope that he does well in Portland or the D league or whatever.

[johnnydakota]

We would've had a terrible record last year without him. He could pass and block shots.

But I have it on good authority that Josh put himself in a position where he couldn't return. He didn't like to hit the books, and he was too emotionally immature to make a mark on this team. The situation on the bench at home vs. Carolina was a glimpse that he couldn't take criticism and thrive.

Even so, I hope that he does well in Portland or the D league or whatever..

I agree, but then again there is a reason he and Paulus were the first Soph. captains since WWII. To be responsible for leading a team that was ranked #1 the previous year, losing 4 valuable seniors, two of whom were 1st team AA's is impossible for anyone. Paulus had an excuse with the injury, but even when he returned he struggled. Josh made a bad choice to leave, but considering the aforementioned experience, who's to say we wouldn't have done the same in his shoes. Josh on this team would've been nasty. With the improved health (Paulus, Henderson), quickness (Smith, Henderson), and shooting (Singler, King) he would have absolutely flourished. Sucks for both him and Duke. I hope he does go D-League and gets some floor time. His skills at his size are just too good to not make it in the NBA. If he doesn't, it's totally on him.

[lavell12]

I think people here take for granted how skilled Josh was, he is perhaps the most skilled big man we have had since Christian, his problem was confidence and the fact that he was not used properly. He was a very good defender but had no help inside. He was all alone inside and that caused much of his problems. He would have been great in this run'n gun style of offense. He was the best athelete in the ACC.

[dukie8]

I think people here take for granted how skilled Josh was, he is perhaps the most skilled big man we have had since Christian, his problem was confidence and the fact that he was not used properly. He was a very good defender but had no help inside. He was all alone inside and that caused much of his problems. He would have been great in this run'n gun style of offense. He was the best athelete in the ACC.

do you really think that someone who couldn't make a 5-foot shot or a lay-up with any consistency was the most skilled big and since laettner? battier? brand? boozer? part of being skilled is being able to shoot in a way that at least has some chance of the ball going in. i don't recall too many duke guys with a worse shot than mcbob's in the past 20 years.

best athelete [sic] in the acc??? based on what? nelson and henderson are both much better pure athletes in terms of strength, jumping, quickness and speed and they were in mcbob's starting five. what criteria are you using to assess athletic ability?

[Bob Green]

I think people here take for granted how skilled Josh was, he is perhaps the most skilled big man we have had since Christian, his problem was confidence and the fact that he was not used properly. He was a very good defender but had no help inside. He was all alone inside and that caused much of his problems. He would have been great in this run'n gun style of offense. He was the best athelete in the ACC.

McRoberts was a very talented passer especially in the open court. He had an above average handle for a 6'11" forward/center. But as far as skill level at scoring points, McRoberts could only dunk. He had zero touch on his shot. I agree with Dukie8 on this topic.

[Uncle Drew]

We would've had a terrible record last year without him. He could pass and block shots.

But I have it on good authority that Josh put himself in a position where he couldn't return. He didn't like to hit the books, and he was too emotionally immature to make a mark on this team. The situation on the bench at home vs. Carolina was a glimpse that he couldn't take criticism and thrive.

Even so, I hope that he does well in Portland or the D league or whatever.

At the risk of getting us both banned / censored for rumour mongering was it really the case he was academic deficient in his requirements and thus esentially had to go pro? If that was truly the case we were all teased after the VCU game when he insinuated returning or going pro was up in the air.

Josh wasn't much in the post unless it was flying through for a dunk or attempted dunk. But with this team I can't help but see him as being one more run and gun weapon to attack with. (And if nothing else five more fouls to hack an opposing center.) I hate he left but I still wish he'd stayed for his own good and Duke's.

[ugadevil]

I pretend McRoberts never played at Duke.

I can agree with this statement to a degree. I'll admit that I wasn't a huge McRoberts fan just because of the way he carried himself on the court but that's my own opinion and preference and don't expect people to agree with me on that. However, as someone who's just a fan, when I remember players who were at Duke, I can think of games or times when they played that I remembered the way they played. With McRoberts, it's like he was in and out so quickly that I forget he was at Duke. His freshman year, he was certainly overshadowed by players who received more attention, and deservedly so. And his 2nd year, he had some moments but I don't have any distinct moments from that season where Josh truly stood out compared to someone like Paulus in the Gonzaga game (once again, just my own perspective).

It's kind of like Luol Deng. When I think of Duke players, Luol just doesn't come to mind because he was at Duke for such a short time. If either had stayed longer, I'm sure they would have had more of those moments.

[Acymetric]

McRoberts was a very talented passer especially in the open court. He had an above average handle for a 6'11" forward/center. But as far as skill level at scoring points, McRoberts could only dunk. He had zero touch on his shot. I agree with Dukie8 on this topic.

I agree, but beyond having no touch, he also had no willingness to bump around inside. He shied away from contact like a 6'1 shooting guard. I have mixed feelings about him being gone this year, but I certainly shed no tears when he left.

[greybeard]

The guy played amazingly great defense, not only on the bigs, but also doubling on anyone who came in the paint. Shot blocking and defensive rebounding also A-one. I think that the recent back surgery affected his offensive play; killed any jump shot, ability to come to the ball on the catch inside. I think that his decision to turn pro was dictated by the BACK.

If he were at Duke, championship frontrunner, hands down, in my opinion. Team would be truly awesome.

[dukemomLA]

I wish him all the best, but he was one of the most disappointing recruits that I can remember in decades. Just kept wishing, and wishing, and wishing, and wishing him to step up.... and he didn't. Too much 'thinking ahead' to his 'great (NOT) NBA career,' rather than truly working on his game.

I got tired of his pouting and the affect this had on the whole team. I LOVE this year's team -- and don't think that McBob would have been an asset. McRoberts, I wish you well in the NBA. I hope that you will turn things around -- it's not your talent -- it's your head. GET TOUGH. WORK HARDER. You've got the talent to take you far. All Dukies wish you well forever.

[MChambers]

The guy played amazingly great defense, not only on the bigs, but also doubling on anyone who came in the paint. Shot blocking and defensive rebounding also A-one. I think that the recent back surgery affected his offensive play; killed any jump shot, ability to come to the ball on the catch inside. I think that his decision to turn pro was dictated by the BACK.

If he were at Duke, championship frontrunner, hands down, in my opinion. Team would be truly awesome.

Greybeard nailed this one, I think. I agree completely.

[trueblue]

I agree that we would be, without a doubt, a championship caliber team if Josh had stayed. For us to win this year the right teams are going to have to get beat and we will have to win several games that are as close as the Pittsburg game, maybe hitting a buzzer beater or two ourselves; but it is possible.

Josh would have put the lock down on the other night.....twenty rebounds would not have happened. He may have only scored about 7 points but the intangibles were where that guy was great. His shot-blocking skills were in another league; good enough to impress the Landlord I guarantee it.

I saw a couple of times in his career he tried to make a couple of shots two handed. I don't know if any of you remember playing ball with two handed shooters but it is a bad habit. Lots of times they are very good shooters in pick-up games, but in competitive ball they get their shot blocked a lot. I have no doubt that old habit surfaced itself a couple of times at Duke and explained a lot about him. His middle and high school coaches probably kept telling him to pick a hand but it is a hard habit to break and it sets you back years of practicing your shot. I still think that jump hook from about 8 feet could have been his bread and butter with a little more practice. Deadly- it could have been.

Gook luck to Josh.

[Acymetric]

Josh would have put the lock down on the other night.....twenty rebounds would not have happened. He may have only scored about 7 points but the intangibles were where that guy was great.
Gook luck to Josh.

Do intangibles include not getting along with everybody, and taking criticism poorly? I'll admit that along with Paulus he was really made a scapegoat for the team last year, especially harsh since they were only sophomores. But he never seemed to have the right mentality. I'm not sure he'll ever really do well in the NBA either. He doesn't have the mental (and in my opinion physical) toughness to succeed at the highest levels. Great skills is only one part of being a great ball player, and its the only part that he's proven he has as far as I'm concerned.

[Classof06]

McRoberts role on Duke's team last year was very interesting because it pitted a lot of what he brought to the team against what he didn't do. For example, I still don't think a 22-11 season is the end of the world but without McRoberts, Duke loses in excess of 15 games last year. Especially with Paulus hobbled, McRoberts did so much more for this team last year than people (myself included) gave him credit for. That being said, if there was anything that last year's team needed, it was a go-to guy and I think it was pretty clear to see that Duke needed McRoberts to be that guy. Unfortunately, using any of the millions of reasons I've heard over the last year, McRoberts was never able to embrace that role and we suffered because of it. So despite all the things McRoberts brought to the table, people will ultimately remember him for what he didn't bring.

I don't know Josh's financial situation but he had no business leaving Duke after his sophomore year. I think it sucks that Josh is now flirting with the NBDL but unfortunately, I can't say that I'm very surprised. And having Josh this year, given that we're now playing a style of ball more suited to his talents, I think Duke would arguably be the best team in the nation.

[houstondukie]

McRoberts role on Duke's team last year was very interesting because it pitted a lot of what he brought to the team against what he didn't do. For example, I still don't think a 22-11 season is the end of the world but without McRoberts, Duke loses in excess of 15 games last year. Especially with Paulus hobbled, McRoberts did so much more for this team last year than people (myself included) gave him credit for. That being said, if there was anything that last year's team needed, it was a go-to guy and I think it was pretty clear to see that Duke needed McRoberts to be that guy. Unfortunately, using any of the millions of reasons I've heard over the last year, McRoberts was never able to embrace that role and we suffered because of it. So despite all the things McRoberts brought to the table, people will ultimately remember him for what he didn't bring.

I don't know Josh's financial situation but he had no business leaving Duke after his sophomore year. I think it sucks that Josh is now flirting with the NBDL but unfortunately, I can't say that I'm very surprised. And having Josh this year, given that we're now playing a style of ball more suited to his talents, I think Duke would arguably be the best team in the nation.

I completely agree, however, I am torn on whether or not I would want him back. This years Duke team has great chemistry. McRoberts was viewed by some last yr as a locker room cancer. However, there is no doubt that his game would of been perfect for this new offense. McRoberts had amazing vision and passing ability. He was knocked for his unselfishless last yr. and his reluctance to take over games, but with this team, he wouldn't have to. He was also a great shot blocker and defensive rebounder which this team badly needs.

There was a lot of pressure on him last yr. to live up to the level of greatness we expect at Duke and however unfair a situation it was, he handled it poorly by screaming at his teamates and whining excessively. Maybe winning would have changed that but I guess we'll never know...

[jma4life]

Does anyone know the lockerroom situation with McRoberts his freshmen year. I know he had a good relationship with JJ but were there any indications or signs foreshadowing the attitude problems that would arise his sophomore year (assuming the reports of his bad attitude are correct- I'm not going to make this judgement just on him getting frustrated in games)

One of the bigger points in all of this in my opinion, is the need for a really solid leader, preferentially a solid senior leader. No way would Battier let Josh get away with some of the stuff he supposedly did last year. And in comparing Josh's attitude on the court his sophomore and freshmen year, it seems clear to me that JJ and Shelden did not allow him to get away with any garbage.

[johnnydakota]

I agree that we would be, without a doubt, a championship caliber team if Josh had stayed. For us to win this year the right teams are going to have to get beat and we will have to win several games that are as close as the Pittsburg game, maybe hitting a buzzer beater or two ourselves; but it is possible.

Josh would have put the lock down on the other night.....twenty rebounds would not have happened. He may have only scored about 7 points but the intangibles were where that guy was great. His shot-blocking skills were in another league; good enough to impress the Landlord I guarantee it.

I saw a couple of times in his career he tried to make a couple of shots two handed. I don't know if any of you remember playing ball with two handed shooters but it is a bad habit. Lots of times they are very good shooters in pick-up games, but in competitive ball they get their shot blocked a lot. I have no doubt that old habit surfaced itself a couple of times at Duke and explained a lot about him. His middle and high school coaches probably kept telling him to pick a hand but it is a hard habit to break and it sets you back years of practicing your shot. I still think that jump hook from about 8 feet could have been his bread and butter with a little more practice. Deadly- it could have been.

Gook luck to Josh.

Your post is more accurate than you know. I believe his back played more of a role in some things as well. I also think barely missing the 2 game winners (when Duke's record was still really good) affected him terribly. Coach K has alluded to that as well. He is very critical of himself and struggling as THE go-to guy was very frustrating. With this years shooters and improved depth and quickness, he would've flourished and that frustration would never have been on display for all to criticize.

[dukie8]

i have no idea what mcbob's thinking was in going pro but it very well may have been the following:

he was a surefire lottery pick coming out of high school (yes, it may have been the worst class ever) but then dropped to a late lottery to early non-lottery pick after a good freshman year but one that was very subordinate to the 2 superstars. after last year, with little improvement and A LOT of deficiencies exposed, he knew that he stock was taking a big hit and he was sliding to the late first round and maybe into the second round. he very well may have concluded that he just isn't that good and another year of being on national tv and throwing up bricks for all non-dunks would kill his draft status so take the $3 million now or it will be gone for good next year.

as it stands, he is making A LOT more than anyone else in the class of '09 and he always can go back and get his degree if he so chooses. based on how little he appears to have improved this year in the nba, his jump looks like a pretty wise financial decision.

[Indoor66]

i have no idea what mcbob's thinking was in going pro but it very well may have been the following:

he was a surefire lottery pick coming out of high school (yes, it may have been the worst class ever) but then dropped to a late lottery to early non-lottery pick after a good freshman year but one that was very subordinate to the 2 superstars. after last year, with little improvement and A LOT of deficiencies exposed, he knew that he stock was taking a big hit and he was sliding to the late first round and maybe into the second round. he very well may have concluded that he just isn't that good and another year of being on national tv and throwing up bricks for all non-dunks would kill his draft status so take the $3 million now or it will be gone for good next year.

as it stands, he is making A LOT more than anyone else in the class of '09 and he always can go back and get his degree if he so chooses. based on how little he appears to have improved this year in the nba, his jump looks like a pretty wise financial decision.

To be fair, his improvement has been severely hampered by his injury problems.

[dukie8]

To be fair, his improvement has been severely hampered by his injury problems.

then all the more reason to grab the $3 million before it is gone forever.

[devildeac]

then all the more reason to grab the $3 million before it is gone forever.

where does that figure come from? as a 2nd rounder?

[Patrick Yates]

Last year, I saw McBob's problems, attitude wise, get worse as the year progressed. I agree that he shied away from contact, and was not a great finisher, but again, all that seemed to get worse as the year progressed.

I see this as being similiar to something Laetner once went through, in the NBA. After Laetner's magical run, from HS through Duke, the Lottery was a freaking nightmare. He lost more in 2-3 months than in the last 8 or so years of his life. It really beat him down.

We all noticed that Josh was really barking at his teammates late in the year. What no one wants to admit is that he was usually right-on. He yelled at teammates when they blew assignments, missed open passes, failed to take open shots, or generally fouled up. I think a lot of Josh's attitude problems were the result of frustration. Like many on this board, he got frustrated when teammates didn't perform to a certain level. Certainly, he was the most talented player, by a wide margin, on last year's team. Hendo had greater potential and raw ability, but his injury/conditioning problems hampered him. No one else on the team was really a star player, last year. McBob wanted them to do things they simply weren't capable of, either due to injury, conditioning, or inexperience. He got really mad, and it showed.

As an aside, I think in retrospect that it is somewhat obvious that his parent's divorce really got to him, and I think that spilled over into what had, until last year, been his refuge, the ball court. When he failed to dominate as he was accustomed, he did not handle it well.

This is not to say he is blameless. A better teammate and leader would have stepped up, and been more understanding. But, it is pretty obvious that he was a little immature and DID NOT handle an adverse situation well. It did not help that we as fans roundly blamed him for not being more dominant. Well, in retrospect, for the first 4/5s of the season he was our primary scoring option. Nelson scored more, but he really had to dominate the ball. Teams were happy with Nelson being the scoring leader because he required a lot of shots to get his. McBob saw a net of defenders whenever he got the ball, which was usually not where and when he was most comfortable, and he really had no teammates helping him out last year. He needed more production and help than his teammates were able to provide. He got mad at them, they got sullen (since most of them had probably never been barked at by a superior teammate, many having never had a superior teammate), and the situation escalated.

It was a conflux of injury, inexperience, and unrealistic expectations. A sad situation that eventually happens to everyone. Everyone on the team, coaches included, shared equally in last year's chemistry issues. Next play.

Patrick Yates

[Bob Green]

According to his profile on ESPN, Josh McRobert' 2008 salary is $427,000.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3220

[dukelifer]

Looks like McBob's job is to get his teammates in shape and take a beating in the process.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2007/12/very_superstitious.html

[weezie]

Kind of odd that this topic has generated such a lengthy discussion. Like the person who dumped you in high school, can't stop thinking about him/her all through junior year, I guess.
In any case, Patrick Yates has some interesting observations. A far more in depth analysis than McBob's time at Duke actually amounted to, in the end.

[tommy]

The guy played amazingly great defense, not only on the bigs, but also doubling on anyone who came in the paint. Shot blocking and defensive rebounding also A-one. I think that the recent back surgery affected his offensive play; killed any jump shot, ability to come to the ball on the catch inside. I think that his decision to turn pro was dictated by the BACK.

If he were at Duke, championship frontrunner, hands down, in my opinion. Team would be truly awesome.

Statistically speaking, McRoberts was just an average rebounder. His career average at Duke was only 6.5 rebounds per game. To compare:

Shelden: 9
Elton: 9
Laettner: 7.8
Carlos: 7
Ferry: 7
Cherokee: 6.7


So all our top big guys in the last 20 years, really, outrebounded Josh. That's not "A-one" rebounding. The guy was a good weakside shotblocker, a good outlet passer -- a good passer in general, had good springs, and was a decent rebounder. That's about it. Tried hard, I'm sure he's a good guy and all, but to me and many others was a major disappointment in several areas, physical and mental. I thought we'd miss him this year, and we might yet against big teams, but I like the team better as is.

[DukeDevilDeb]

I liked Josh as a student very much; he was nice to interact with and was never in any danger of failing in my courses. I didn't like him much on Coach K court because I got the sense that he had so much more that he never put out on the floor... the polar opposite of Christian, Bobby, Shane, Grant, and on and on...

But I watched him sit in my class last fall semester after his back surgery. He could hardly sit still. The pain he experienced was substantial and wasn't something that was going away.

His NBA career will be fairly short... his back will see to that. So when people say he was wrong for going pro, I have to disagree. One more injury or surgery and he was likely out for good... he needed to grab his chance while he still could.

[Carlos]

Statistically speaking, McRoberts was just an average rebounder. His career average at Duke was only 6.5 rebounds per game. To compare:

Shelden: 9
Elton: 9
Laettner: 7.8
Carlos: 7
Ferry: 7
Cherokee: 6.7


So all our top big guys in the last 20 years, really, outrebounded Josh. That's not "A-one" rebounding. The guy was a good weakside shotblocker, a good outlet passer -- a good passer in general, had good springs, and was a decent rebounder. That's about it. Tried hard, I'm sure he's a good guy and all, but to me and many others was a major disappointment in several areas, physical and mental. I thought we'd miss him this year, and we might yet against big teams, but I like the team better as is.

I'm not sure you can make a case against his rebounding based simply on his career averages. He played two seasons, the first with one of the greatest rebounders in Duke history and the second in a year where the team played a more deliberate pace than Duke traditionally did in any of the years of those other players on your list. His numbers would suffer from both factors.

[ikiru36]

I'm not sure you can make a case against his rebounding based simply on his career averages. He played two seasons, the first with one of the greatest rebounders in Duke history and the second in a year where the team played a more deliberate pace than Duke traditionally did in any of the years of those other players on your list. His numbers would suffer from both factors.

Relatedly, if Carlos Boozer only averaged 7 rebounds at Duke, then 6.5 isn't necessarily a bad average in Coach K's systems because Carlos was definitely a very good rebounder (now turned pretty extraordinary!) There are many factors influencing this statistic making per game averages alone, devoid of context, not a very meaningful point of comparison between players on different teams playing different styles/tempos.

Josh was not a rebounding stud, perhaps (though there was the slow tempo as well as his other skills which drew him away from the basket more than a Boozer or Williams), but he was tall, fairly long, had springs pre-back injury, and had pretty good hands and instincts. From a pure skill perspective, the injury (and chemistry) questions aside, he would have been a great addition to our current team. (BTW, I agree with some others that, if he were reasonably pain-free, the chemistry issues would have been fine with him this year as he'd feel less pressure and LOVE our current style of play. In fact, coach K has plainly stated that Duke began installing this new offense and style last pre-season, only to be derailed by Greg's foot injury and other injuries which diminished our athleticism and depth.)

It doesn't yet seem like anyone can provide definitive proof of the extent of his back injury troubles but there's a great deal of anecdotal evidence that this may have been more problematic than was admitted to at the time. To me, the greatest evidence of Josh's back issues was how far he slipped in the NBA draft. Whatever his failures to step up at Duke, he was still All-ACC as a Sophomore. There's no way that a 6'10" kid of his varied abilities, while still only 20 years old, doesn't get drafted on potential in the early 20's by some team, unless there's a rumour/fact going around that he has a serious red flag. Given some of the head cases that have been drafted highly despite that form of red flag, my guess is that there was serious concern about his back.

While I can imagine someone handling their pain/frustration/disappointment with more maturity and joie de vivre than Josh perhaps managed, I certainly can't guarantee I'd have done any better as a 19/20 year old who only a year previous felt pretty assured of near boundless success playing the game which I loved. Not the easiest situation, especially in the national limelight of Duke.

I wish Josh all the best, and hope he recovers his full athleticism and joy playing the game of basketball. He still seems like a good kid/young man, whatever his struggles/shortcomings. I'm sad that he couldn't have had greater success for/with Duke but it clearly wasn't meant to be. May both he and Duke make the best of whatever lessons may be learned, going forward, and may we both have great successes!!!!!

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dukie8]

It doesn't yet seem like anyone can provide definitive proof of the extent of his back injury troubles but there's a great deal of anecdotal evidence that this may have been more problematic than was admitted to at the time. To me, the greatest evidence of Josh's back issues was how far he slipped in the NBA draft. Whatever his failures to step up at Duke, he was still All-ACC as a Sophomore. There's no way that a 6'10" kid of his varied abilities, while still only 20 years old, doesn't get drafted on potential in the early 20's by some team, unless there's a rumour/fact going around that he has a serious red flag. Given some of the head cases that have been drafted highly despite that form of red flag, my guess is that there was serious concern about his back.

so you are blaming his drop in the draft due to unknown back issues and completely discounting the fact that every nba scout got to watch him on national tv every week for 2 years and saw that other than a dunk, he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean? people get drafted on "potential" after high school when it is all gray and fuzzy what a kid can do. not too many people get drafted on "potential" after 2 years of acc basketball, one of which involved him being the "go to" guy.

he had to have been examined before the draft and whatever is wrong with his back had to have been diagnosed. what is it? a herniated disk? a "bad back" is not a medical condition.

[dukie8]

According to his profile on ESPN, Josh McRobert' 2008 salary is $427,000.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=3220

ick. for some reason i thought he scored a better deal. maybe i recall him signing a 2-year guarantee. at $427K/yr, after paying taxes and all of his minions, his leaving early looks right now to be a major disaster. at this rate, he might even clear a million before he is done. ouch.

[juise]

at this rate, he might even clear a million before he is done. ouch.

I don't think he has Boozer's potential, but 'Los made $425,000 and $563,679 in his first two seasons. I don't think anyone should write off Josh's career yet. I mean, compare his two years at Duke to Shav's three, keeping in mind that injury was common factor for the two.

[Uncle Drew]

I liked Josh as a student very much; he was nice to interact with and was never in any danger of failing in my courses. I didn't like him much on Coach K court because I got the sense that he had so much more that he never put out on the floor... the polar opposite of Christian, Bobby, Shane, Grant, and on and on...

But I watched him sit in my class last fall semester after his back surgery. He could hardly sit still. The pain he experienced was substantial and wasn't something that was going away.

His NBA career will be fairly short... his back will see to that. So when people say he was wrong for going pro, I have to disagree. One more injury or surgery and he was likely out for good... he needed to grab his chance while he still could.


As someone who had to return from my honeymoon in Europe with two torn disks. (We were stranded in a hotel in Rome for four days!) I can testify to the fact that back problems are debilitating. If you have never had a back problem you can't truly understand how every move you make uses some part of your back. And if that back is injured you are in constant pain. That may very well be the reason he decided to leave, the reason his draft status dropped so low etc.

I guess it's silly for us all to sit and speculate. And I really do understand those who feel like they never really "knew" him because of his early entry. I just wonder if he had left after winning a championship (a la Dunnleavy, Williams & Boozer) if sentiment would be the same. Granted I would have loved to see Brand, Maggette, Deng etc. stay another year or their full four years. But I have to say it's nice watching NBA highlights on ESPN and not having it only former UNC players.

[mapei]

Anyone who says Josh is the most disappointing recruit in memory has a very short memory, considering Shav's career at Duke. And, frankly, you can certainly make the argument that "the leading scorer in California HS history," as we are constantly reminded DeMarcus was, should be a more prolific scorer at Duke. Josh seems to be constantly denigrated on this board while DeMarcus is revered. I just don't see it. Here are some numbers from last season.

Points:
DN: 14.1
JM: 13.0

Rebounds:
DN: 5.4
JM: 7.9

Assists
DN: 2.0
JM: 3.5

Steals
DN: 1.3
JM: 1.2

Blocks
DN: 0.5
JM: 2.5

FG%
DN: .478
JM: .502

FT%
DN: .593
JM: .664

Josh was every bit as productive and valuable to the team as DeMarcus, arguably moreso. Both came in with lofty credentials. Neither turned out to be the kind of player that dominates games and saves the season - they haven't been JJ or Shane - but both have been productive players. To put one on a pedestal while constantly putting the other one down is not supported by the facts and is very unfair IMO.

[jma4life]

First of all, Demarcus was never the number one player in his class though he was a solid McDAA.

Secondly, Demarcus has stayed four years whereas McRoberts stayed for two seasons.

Finally, regardless of whether it is accurate, the perception is that McRoberts was a chemistry killer. I don't completely buy into that but that is the perception. And no one can deny that Demarcus is really trying to be a great leader this season.

Either way, I don't really think either of those guys should be criticized but the reasons that I just gave are probably why Josh receives more criticism than Demarcus- though again, neither really deserves much criticism.

[ikiru36]

so you are blaming his drop in the draft due to unknown back issues and completely discounting the fact that every nba scout got to watch him on national tv every week for 2 years and saw that other than a dunk, he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean? people get drafted on "potential" after high school when it is all gray and fuzzy what a kid can do. not too many people get drafted on "potential" after 2 years of acc basketball, one of which involved him being the "go to" guy.

he had to have been examined before the draft and whatever is wrong with his back had to have been diagnosed. what is it? a herniated disk? a "bad back" is not a medical condition.

Not denying that Josh slipped some due to his less than overwhelming (but still pretty darned good in areas other than offensive production) performance his Sophomore year. But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.

Every predictive draft board I saw prior to draft day placed Josh between 15th and 25th or so, so when he slipped another 10+ spots further I tend to think there was some behind the scenes rumor/concern which impacted his status. I'm just guessing, and would love to know if anyone has inside information on why he slipped so far because it really was surprising. (He actually might have slipped much further still, but for his close friendship with Greg Oden making his pick a smart one for Portland even if he never played a minute.) Plenty of (tall) guys get drafted high when they are still complete projects at the offensive end. Josh was a major scorer in high school including out to 3 pt. range. Despite his disappointing failure to dominate offensively at Duke, he (as a young Sophomore- like 15 months younger than Hans-blah if I remember correctly) still shot 50%+ from the field, averaging 7.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals (all at a slow tempo), earning all-ACC honors.

Not sure of the value of denigrating his accomplishments any more than is necessary, but if that is your prerogative, enjoy!

Best to you Josh!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ugadevil]

First of all, Demarcus was never the number one player in his class though he was a solid McDAA.

Secondly, Demarcus has stayed four years whereas McRoberts stayed for two seasons.

Finally, regardless of whether it is accurate, the perception is that McRoberts was a chemistry killer. I don't completely buy into that but that is the perception. And no one can deny that Demarcus is really trying to be a great leader this season.

Either way, I don't really think either of those guys should be criticized but the reasons that I just gave are probably why Josh receives more criticism than Demarcus- though again, neither really deserves much criticism.


Also, if Josh went pro early because of his back and couldn't afford to wait any longer, the same can not be said for DeMarcus. He has also had an injury plagued career at Duke but he stuck it out and battled back from his injuries. He was determined to have a healthy full season of basketball, McRoberts wasn't as concerned with this.

[lavell12]

Also, if Josh went pro early because of his back and couldn't afford to wait any longer, the same can not be said for DeMarcus. He has also had an injury plagued career at Duke but he stuck it out and battled back from his injuries. He was determined to have a healthy full season of basketball, McRoberts wasn't as concerned with this.

that maybe true but Nelson also wouldn't have been drafted if he tried to go pro.

[dukie8]

Not denying that Josh slipped some due to his less than overwhelming (but still pretty darned good in areas other than offensive production) performance his Sophomore year. But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.

Every predictive draft board I saw prior to draft day placed Josh between 15th and 25th or so, so when he slipped another 10+ spots further I tend to think there was some behind the scenes rumor/concern which impacted his status. I'm just guessing, and would love to know if anyone has inside information on why he slipped so far because it really was surprising. (He actually might have slipped much further still, but for his close friendship with Greg Oden making his pick a smart one for Portland even if he never played a minute.) Plenty of (tall) guys get drafted high when they are still complete projects at the offensive end. Josh was a major scorer in high school including out to 3 pt. range. Despite his disappointing failure to dominate offensively at Duke, he (as a young Sophomore- like 15 months younger than Hans-blah if I remember correctly) still shot 50%+ from the field, averaging 7.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals (all at a slow tempo), earning all-ACC honors.

Not sure of the value of denigrating his accomplishments any more than is necessary, but if that is your prerogative, enjoy!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm not denigrating him. i'm just recognizing the obvious -- something which you refuse to do. if his back were the reason that EVERY team passed on him in the first round, then don't you think it would have been mentioned somewhere? there are guys with injuries that teams take a pass on but word actually gets out that that is going on (it's not just people rumor mongering on fan sites a year later). why is it so difficult to just face the reality that teams in the nba just didn't think he was very good and, like all of us know, was very weak on the offensive end? if he had that much difficulty scoring against 18-22 year olds as the focal point of the offense last year, what on earth is he going to do against seasoned nba vets?

the fact that you are citing his high school stats as evidence of how good he could be is simply ridiculous. casey sanders (yes, the player who averaged 2.7 ppg at duke) was an offensive juggernaut in high school. 2 years of college basketball trumps anything in high school a millionfold. your belief that greg oden somehow saved mcbob from falling further is a new one. care to provide some evidence that oden has pull with the gm of portland?

i don't mean to denigrate the guy but it is painful seeing a former duke player make a horrendous career move (a la avery) that negatively impacts the current team. for his sake, i'd love to see him somehow pull down a shav type contract so, even if he never becomes a regular in the nba, at least he will have earned some financial security in life.

[Jaymf7]

But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.


If I recall correctly, Josh had surprisingly poor stats at the NBA workouts. His vertical and agility numbers were very average to below average. Perhaps more telling, his body fat was the highest of all predicted first rounders (and may have been higher than Glen Davis'). I was shocked. If nothing else, that suggests a lack of commitment to training for those workouts.

I have always felt that Josh's decision to go was based on his (presumably informed) decision that he had more to lose than gain by sticking around another year.

[ikiru36]

dukie8 and jay,

Fair points, both of you. Where I tend to disagree, though it is not easily provable either way, is that I don't think Josh played himself out of the 1st round in the games we witnessed him playing for Duke. With decent workouts and interviews and a solid combine, I think he would have been a mid to late 1st round pick, as most were predicting all the way up to draft day. On the other hand, if he had truly unimpressive workouts and a poor combine in conjunction with the concerns raised by his failure to dominate at Duke, I suppose that may have been enough to give him a bad name amongst scouts and cause him to slip even without a direct injury concern.

Pretty clearly, unless he is faced with a likely degenerative condition, he would have been better served financially to have waited another year, at least. And had he done so, I think both he and Duke would have been the better for it. dukie8, I agree that it was likely a very poor career move for Josh. Academic inability or immediate financial concerns aside, it's not a great move to go pro early unless you're assured to be a lottery pick at the worst. It's even more clearly a bad move to be drafted outside of the first round when a contract isn't even guaranteed at all. Josh is fortunate that, as a second round pick, he was quickly proferred a couple of years of guaranteed contract.

Comparing Josh's High School resume (including MVP of McDonald's AA game) to Casey Sanders (who, if i recollect correctly, was legendary for insane numbers of blocked shots and an unpolished offensive game at a relatively low level of competition) is not really valid, again as with the Demarcus argument, as Demarcus and Casey were never Top 10 or discussed as likely NBA lottery players whereas Josh was easily both coming out of High School.

I, too, hope Josh figures out how to make the most of his talents, which are potentially considerable. Whether related to past injury or not, he's clearly going to need to be a superior workout warrior to achieve his former promise.

Go Duke!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mapei]

While Josh was ranked as high as #1 coming out of high school, it was an exceptionally weak class - in part because the best big men were going straight to the NBA that year for the last time.

It's also worth noting that Josh was more productive offensively as a sophomore than Shel was, with a slightly higher scoring average (13.0 to 12.6) and a much better assist average (3.5 to 0.5). Shel was a much better rebounder (7.9 to 12.6) and somewhat better shot blocker (2.5 to 3.0).

I definitely wish Josh had stayed at Duke, but I think that about everyone who leaves. Unfortunately we are only going to see more and more of it.

[VaDukie]

I have a lot of mixed feelings over Josh. On the one hand, there was a universal chorus that he was a chemistry killer and not a lot of people were sad to see him leave. He certainly didn't live up to the hype being McDonald's Player of the Year, but if judged solely on their performances as sophomores, guys like Duhon and Battier didn't either.

Having said that, those two guys weren't asked to be stars as sophomores, and they probably weren't entirely ready to either. If Josh could have been a secondary option last year and built up his confidence, who's to say he wouldn't be reaching star status this year?

I think he suffered way too much of the blame for our struggles last year. I can only imagine how much better last season would have gone with a healthy Henderson & Paulus, and a healthy McClure down the home stretch. I can't claim to have insight on his inner psyche, but it would seem natural that healthy teammates would lead to more wins/less pressure, and presumably a better attitude. That being said, I'm not claiming to know anything from people inside the program so maybe he would have been a grouch no matter what.

I also wonder how Josh would be perceived if he had made two shots - the end of regulation against UVA and against FSU. Some may cynically point out that those shots were indicative of his inability to score the entire year, but I digress. If he makes two baskets, he probably gets hyped as Mr. Clutch and we gloss over other flaws. For instance, no one gripes about Dockery's weak outside shot (.365 career) because of one magical shot.

Either way I hope he gets healthy and has a productive career in the league. I would wish nothing less for anyone who has put on a Duke uniform.

[greybeard]

I never understood, and still can't, how anybody missed the obvious and severe negative impact Josh's back had on his game. The guy could not move to the ball most of the time when receiving a penetrating pass. Basketball 101, when you are a tall kid, ingrains that in you. The ball is coming, you have your guy boxed, you move to it. He didn't, almost ever!

His jump shot. Please. The guy made incredibly acrobatic plays on the move on both ends but could not elevate and gracefully release a jump shot from a stand still. Could not do it. At all!

Not too many 19 year olds develop back injuries that require surgery. I should repeat that but I won't. Name me three.

Once Josh hurt his back in high school he was in trouble; he had a subpar freshman year but passed on being a lottery, had surgery, and for all the world appeared in worse shape, much worse shape, at the end of it.

NBA people should have gone public and said, "Hey you studs out there, have an injury and are considering whether to come out early, here's a news flash, you don't and you don't improve, you're toast."

Good message if you're the NBA and want freshman leaving who have tremendous upsides that require you to pick them even though they have these injuries which, along with other factors, would make you prefer they wait.

On the other hand, if you want those kids to do what you would prefer, that is, stay, you keep your collective traps shut, which is just what they all did. They want kids staying in school, not leaving early especially when there seem to be impediments to their ever reaching their potential.

Like his professor said, Josh did the right thing by leaving when he did. In retrospect, I'm sure he wishes he'd have left earlier. Would have been better for him, financially, which you can bet drove the bus when he left. I am sure that it ate him each day during his final season as he saw his physical abilities deteriorate rather than progress. How could it have been otherwise.

As for the chemistry thing, you try walking around in constant pain, well, not constant, just often and jabbingly debilitating at oh so many times, and see how easy you are to live with. Then, instead of just hanging in the house with family and friends who understand but get tired of it, put yourself on TV every week and watch yourself fail to perform elemental tasks that should be like brushing your teeth.

I always thought Paulus incredibly, incredibly courageous for his ability to maintain such positiveness in his interactions in the face of similar adversity. I said it then and I'll say it again, I ain't faulting McRob for being unable to live up to that incredibly high standard. Living your pain and disappointment on a public stage is courage enough for me.

[dukie8]

I never understood, and still can't, how anybody missed the obvious and severe negative impact Josh's back had on his game. The guy could not move to the ball most of the time when receiving a penetrating pass. Basketball 101, when you are a tall kid, ingrains that in you. The ball is coming, you have your guy boxed, you move to it. He didn't, almost ever!

His jump shot. Please. The guy made incredibly acrobatic plays on the move on both ends but could not elevate and gracefully release a jump shot from a stand still. Could not do it. At all!

Not too many 19 year olds develop back injuries that require surgery. I should repeat that but I won't. Name me three.

Once Josh hurt his back in high school he was in trouble; he had a subpar freshman year but passed on being a lottery, had surgery, and for all the world appeared in worse shape, much worse shape, at the end of it.

NBA people should have gone public and said, "Hey you studs out there, have an injury and are considering whether to come out early, here's a news flash, you don't and you don't improve, you're toast."

Good message if you're the NBA and want freshman leaving who have tremendous upsides that require you to pick them even though they have these injuries which, along with other factors, would make you prefer they wait.

On the other hand, if you want those kids to do what you would prefer, that is, stay, you keep your collective traps shut, which is just what they all did. They want kids staying in school, not leaving early especially when there seem to be impediments to their ever reaching their potential.

Like his professor said, Josh did the right thing by leaving when he did. In retrospect, I'm sure he wishes he'd have left earlier. Would have been better for him, financially, which you can bet drove the bus when he left. I am sure that it ate him each day during his final season as he saw his physical abilities deteriorate rather than progress. How could it have been otherwise.

As for the chemistry thing, you try walking around in constant pain, well, not constant, just often and jabbingly debilitating at oh so many times, and see how easy you are to live with. Then, instead of just hanging in the house with family and friends who understand but get tired of it, put yourself on TV every week and watch yourself fail to perform elemental tasks that should be like brushing your teeth.

I always thought Paulus incredibly, incredibly courageous for his ability to maintain such positiveness in his interactions in the face of similar adversity. I said it then and I'll say it again, I ain't faulting McRob for being unable to live up to that incredibly high standard. Living your pain and disappointment on a public stage is courage enough for me.

that's weird. some anonymous poster on the internet has it all figured out about mcbob's back but EVERY nba team -- including those who worked him out -- didn't have it figured out. as i stated earlier, i don't doubt that he has back issues, but if they were as bad as you so proudly proclaim, then how did he even play last year? i've had a herniated disk and, as others have stated, if it is really bad, you really can't get out of bed, much less play d1 hoops.

moreover, if they were as bad as you like to believe, then how come he didn't miss any games, get treatment during any of the games or even wince from the pain during a game? you simply are creating phantom excuses. having read your post and not known any better, i would have thought that he had severe sciatic nerve issues and was half crippled. also, i don't know what games you watched last year, but i didn't see too many acrobatic plays from him on the offensive end. flat bricks with no chance of going in the basket don't cause me to envision ballerinas.

at $427K for the year, he made a horrible career move. if his back really were that bad, then he would have been much better off red-shirting this entire year while rehabing it and then light it up in '08-'09. if he would have done that, then his first year salary would have been much more than $854K and there would be more to follow.

as i stated earlier, it's a bummer when a duke guy makes a bad career move AND it hurts the team the following year. this isn't brand, boozer or jwill, all of whom were ready to go, going pro early.

[greybeard]

that's weird. some anonymous poster on the internet has it all figured out about mcbob's back but EVERY nba team -- including those who worked him out -- didn't have it figured out. as i stated earlier, i don't doubt that he has back issues, but if they were as bad as you so proudly proclaim, then how did he even play last year? i've had a herniated disk and, as others have stated, if it is really bad, you really can't get out of bed, much less play d1 hoops.

moreover, if they were as bad as you like to believe, then how come he didn't miss any games, get treatment during any of the games or even wince from the pain during a game? you simply are creating phantom excuses. having read your post and not known any better, i would have thought that he had severe sciatic nerve issues and was half crippled. also, i don't know what games you watched last year, but i didn't see too many acrobatic plays from him on the offensive end. flat bricks with no chance of going in the basket don't cause me to envision ballerinas.

at $427K for the year, he made a horrible career move. if his back really were that bad, then he would have been much better off red-shirting this entire year while rehabing it and then light it up in '08-'09. if he would have done that, then his first year salary would have been much more than $854K and there would be more to follow.

as i stated earlier, it's a bummer when a duke guy makes a bad career move AND it hurts the team the following year. this isn't brand, boozer or jwill, all of whom were ready to go, going pro early.

You think he stinks and I think his inability to make ordinary plays that any teenager could, much less an a-one college recruit, was due to his surgery. It is possible, you know, to have back trouble that isn't identifiable in terms of a herniated this, or a broken that. Most bad backs are not discernible in such terms. Yours, it seems, was severe and immobilizing. I can imagine how bad that must feel, having had back problems on and off since law school, more consistently but less acutely in the last 20 years.

No orthodpod would have a clue what is wrong with my back or how to begin to help it.

I am not convinced that McRob's back will not improve. I am convinced that it prevented him from playing well on the offensive end in ways I had expected would be EASY for him. Things like moving to the ball, elevating on a jump shot and moving his arms up to shooting position and releasing it with rhythm. He seemed like a disjointed spaz. On the other hand, when on the move, he make catches with his back to the basket and stuff it two handed over his head.

It was, no doubt, his ability to do the latter that lead the NBA guys not to completely give up on McRob. I haven't either. I saw his body break down as the season went on; he was a monster defensively and on the defensive boards during the first part of the season and even his defensive acuity fell off as the season lengthened.

In the end, apart from the poster who had McRob in his class and said he observed McRob in obvious discomfort on a regular basis, no one can say for sure what is what with the guy's back.

That said, I saw enough of McRob's upside play, which was spectacular in its grace, simplicity, and athletic ability (sometimes he literally soared after you thought that he had reached the apex of an already impressive reach to block a shot or dunk) to say that, when it was missing, it had to be due to his back. I still think so.

Or, he just might be incredibly eratic, surley to a fault, and a tall kid with absolutely no shot from 10 feet on out from a standstill. Makes me wonder what K saw in him in the first place.

[dukie8]

You think he stinks and I think his inability to make ordinary plays that any teenager could, much less an a-one college recruit, was due to his surgery. It is possible, you know, to have back trouble that isn't identifiable in terms of a herniated this, or a broken that. Most bad backs are not discernible in such terms.

please show me where i said that he stinks. way to completely make up what other people have posted. it isn't possible to have back trouble that is so dehabilitating that one cannot make "ordinary plays that a teenager could" yet never show a single hint of discomfort during any of the games that were on tv. if it were so bad, like only you seem to think, then it would have flared up at some point during one of the games. show me which game it flared up in. think of mcgwire's or mattingly's last few years. those guys were in obvious pain and i never saw mcroberts acting like they did. you simply are making up his back injury as the reason why he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean and have no idea what you are talking about.


I am not convinced that McRob's back will not improve.

based on what? did you examine him? i thought that you at least admitted that you didn't know what was wrong with his back other than he had a "bad back." it's beyond far-fetched that you are offering your own prognoses on his back when you don't even know what is wrong with him.


I saw his body break down as the season went on; he was a monster defensively and on the defensive boards during the first part of the season and even his defensive acuity fell off as the season lengthened.

i am curious. what did you witness through your television? you are aware that in his very last game he had a career high 22 points and 12 rebounds? yes, he really must have been broken down at that point.


In the end, apart from the poster who had McRob in his class and said he observed McRob in obvious discomfort on a regular basis, no one can say for sure what is what with the guy's back.

how is a random person who thought he saw him in discomfort in a class in a position to say "for sure" what is wrong with his back (if there even was something wrong with it)? at least you now are admitting that you have no clue.


That said, I saw enough of McRob's upside play, which was spectacular in its grace, simplicity, and athletic ability (sometimes he literally soared after you thought that he had reached the apex of an already impressive reach to block a shot or dunk) to say that, when it was missing, it had to be due to his back. I still think so.

are you sure you aren't confusing him with mj, kobe or lebron? you are the first person i have seen who thought that he could jump out of the gym.

[greybeard]

please show me where i said that he stinks. way to completely make up what other people have posted. it isn't possible to have back trouble that is so dehabilitating that one cannot make "ordinary plays that a teenager could" yet never show a single hint of discomfort during any of the games that were on tv. if it were so bad, like only you seem to think, then it would have flared up at some point during one of the games. show me which game it flared up in. think of mcgwire's or mattingly's last few years. those guys were in obvious pain and i never saw mcroberts acting like they did. you simply are making up his back injury as the reason why he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean and have no idea what you are talking about.



based on what? did you examine him? i thought that you at least admitted that you didn't know what was wrong with his back other than he had a "bad back." it's beyond far-fetched that you are offering your own prognoses on his back when you don't even know what is wrong with him.



i am curious. what did you witness through your television? you are aware that in his very last game he had a career high 22 points and 12 rebounds? yes, he really must have been broken down at that point.



how is a random person who thought he saw him in discomfort in a class in a position to say "for sure" what is wrong with his back (if there even was something wrong with it)? at least you now are admitting that you have no clue.



are you sure you aren't confusing him with mj, kobe or lebron? you are the first person i have seen who thought that he could jump out of the gym.

We disagree.

[Jeffrey]

[I]Now with Green back in Portland, will Josh McRoberts travel to Idaho to get some run and experience? Weeks ago McMillan did say sending Green and McRoberts to the D-league was an option, either together or individually. And now that Green has seen been there and done that, is McRoberts next?



Hi,

I find this news more positive than most posters. IMO, the D-league is a good thing and a young/inexperienced player is better off playing a bunch in the D-league than practically none in the NBA. IMO, Josh could increase his confidence, skills, strength, and endurance in the D-league. However, it is not the place to learn team chemistry. IMO, Duke was that place.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[mapei]

dukie8, why all the sarcasm and antagonism? People can disagree about stuff and move on. Try it.

[juise]

I find this news more positive than most posters. IMO, the D-league is a good thing and a young/inexperienced player is better off playing a bunch in the D-league than practically none in the NBA. IMO, Josh could increase his confidence, skills, strength, and endurance in the D-league.

I'm with you on this. Portland sent Martell Webster to the D-league last year because he was wasting away on the bench and it wasn't doing much for his confidence. It didn't mean that the Blazers wanted nothing to do with their former lottery pick... quite the contrary. (Granted, they don't have as much invested in Josh as they do in Martell.) I think Josh would probably benefit from a change of pace.

[greybeard]

I'm with you on this. Portland sent Martell Webster to the D-league last year because he was wasting away on the bench and it wasn't doing much for his confidence. It didn't mean that the Blazers wanted nothing to do with their former lottery pick... quite the contrary. (Granted, they don't have as much invested in Josh as they do in Martell.) I think Josh would probably benefit from a change of pace.

Absolutely.

[Indoor66]

I just noted that the D-League game between Idaho and Bakersfield will be on the NBATV Channel at 2:30 EST (Saturday, 12/29).