PDA

View Full Version : #6 Seed against VCU



drion97
03-11-2007, 06:21 PM
Could be worse-- but could be better.

Thank goodness for the 6 seed-- and no crazy dangerous matchup with Zona or Kentucky...

MulletMan
03-11-2007, 06:23 PM
Wow! A 6 seed!

And the 3 seed is Pitt? I'll take it.

Let the fun begin!

feldspar
03-11-2007, 06:23 PM
They sure looked excited to play us. We don't have the worst draw, but it ain't gonna be a cake walk either.

Drebly1
03-11-2007, 06:23 PM
Even Seth Davis is shocked.

365Duke
03-11-2007, 06:24 PM
:D I'll take it!

Brian12215
03-11-2007, 06:25 PM
VCU is a solid team from a pretty good conference. Should be an excellent game.

CDu
03-11-2007, 06:25 PM
Good draw, considering we're a #6 seed. Getting VCU to start is better than a major conference foe. And Pitt isn't a terrible matchup, even though they're big. No dominant scorers. Still a chance at another Sweet 16.

dukelifer
03-11-2007, 06:25 PM
Duke as a 6 seed gets VCU- a team with two senior guards and a potential second round againt Pitt. Certainly not awful

BDevilU
03-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Let's beat VCU first.

This region should be titled "Tradition".
Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UCLA, and Indiana all in the same region with possibilities of all advancing to the second round.

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Not the worst matchups, nor the best.

We CAN'T overlook VCU, They are a decent team and athletic. Could cause some matchup problems but I think Duke wins by 10 or so.

Pitt should be a interesting game, but cant overlook VCU so I wont comment on this any further.

Madrasdukie
03-11-2007, 06:26 PM
Could anyone say where are we playing ? Thx.

Dukebacker
03-11-2007, 06:27 PM
Awesome draw.

Assuming we beat VCU...all's we have to do against pitt is take away gray and we could win easily.

Hopefully we can make a deep run..and maybe shock the world!

365Duke
03-11-2007, 06:28 PM
buffalo,ny

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 06:28 PM
When is the first round game? or have they said yet? Game day/time etc,. ?

CDu
03-11-2007, 06:29 PM
Would've rather had Wazzou than Pitt, though.

drion97
03-11-2007, 06:29 PM
Dang-- a shame our 3rd seed isn't Washington State.

Nice to see us above BC-- out of conference sched worked for us.

UNC-Texas in sweet 16? awesome.

This has to be the first time Duke and Vanderbelt have ever been the same seed, huh?

BDevilU
03-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Game is Thursday in Buffalo, NY. Possible second round in Buffalo on Saturday.

VaDukie
03-11-2007, 06:36 PM
VCU is a tough team. We should not sleep on them.

Jumbo
03-11-2007, 06:39 PM
VCU is very good. I'll give you guys a good scouting report on them later -- I know them pretty well.
Still, we have to be thrilled with this seed. We can lose any game. But we have a reasonable chance to beat any of the teams in our way. That's all I want.

drion97
03-11-2007, 06:40 PM
Great point Jumbo-- I totally agree. This afternoon I couldn't see a way we could win our second round game (thinking 1 or 2 seed opponent).

So, relatively, I'm happy.

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 06:40 PM
VCU is very good. I'll give you guys a good scouting report on them later -- I know them pretty well.
Still, we have to be thrilled with this seed. We can lose any game. But we have a reasonable chance to beat any of the teams in our way. That's all I want.

Jumbo, You said it best. I wish Wisconsin was our 2-Seed and Wazoo was our 3-Seed. I could give a good scouting report on Wazoo since I have many friends that attend and go to every game.

But i cant complain, Very happy with the draw!

Tappan Zee Devil
03-11-2007, 06:44 PM
Billy Thacker just said that VCU will be a dangerous challange for us!

well?

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 06:46 PM
Dang-- a shame our 3rd seed isn't Washington State.

Nice to see us above BC-- out of conference sched worked for us.

UNC-Texas in sweet 16? awesome.

This has to be the first time Duke and Vanderbelt have ever been the same seed, huh?


K REALLY worked the system with the OOC schedule this year. Even though it helped us big time, I'm not happy about it in the grand scheme of things.

I, too, think the unc-texas matchup will happen (though I'll always hold out hope that unc will faceplant vs. the 16 seed). That would be a real marquee matcup, for sure.

Vanderbilt was a 2 with McCaffrey in 93 when we were a 3. Go figure.

tombrady
03-11-2007, 06:49 PM
K REALLY worked the system with the OOC schedule this year. Even though it helped us big time, I'm not happy about it in the grand scheme of things.


umm, what exactly does this mean?

a) it helped us big time
b) but, you're not happy about it

please explain -- you'd rather us do things that don't help us? or you'd rather see us play sh!tty opponents early in the season?

OZZIE4DUKE
03-11-2007, 06:49 PM
No easy games when you are a 6 seed, but I am thrilled with our first weekend possibilities! With improved defense and good shooting, we'll make it to the Sweet 16. UCLA as a potential opponent in that game presents a challenge, but one that can be met.

That we didn't get a killer game for our second round (not taking VCU for granted here, but I certainly expect us to beat them) is very surprising to me. The "committee" didn't screw us for a change!

dukeisawesome
03-11-2007, 06:51 PM
Anyone know what time we play? Most likely the late game since it seems we always are.

I think we got a decent draw, but maybe the toughest overall region. We already beat Mason who is from VCU's conference so we have somewhat a measuring stick and should be able to handle VCU. I don't know much about Pitt, but as long as we are facing teams without a great backcourt, we could go far. It all depends on which Duke team shows up though so I don't even want to make any predictions. First two games in Buffalo which isn't bad and maybe Paulus will come out extra motivated since he is from upstate NY. Not so great to have to go out West if we advance past that, but I'll take it.

hayesdt
03-11-2007, 06:52 PM
Is the Thursday game in Buffalo an afternoon or evening game? (Trying to scrounge for some tickets)

DH

OZZIE4DUKE
03-11-2007, 06:53 PM
Billy Thacker just said that VCU will be a dangerous challange for us!

well?

Billy Thacker! Bwahahahaha! Jim Thacker, Billy Packer's old partner back in the 70s on ACC broadcasts, appreciates you remembering him, even though he is long gone.

Forrest
03-11-2007, 06:56 PM
Regardless of the pairings, I'm happy to see Duke get a 6 seed. Historically, 7 seeds (where I thought Duke would be) have won less than half their first-round games.

dukeisawesome
03-11-2007, 06:58 PM
One more good thing about the bracket: it's UNC who has to deal with Kevin Durant potentially in the sweet 16! :)

NYC Duke Fan
03-11-2007, 07:07 PM
We will have a tough game no matter who we play. We are certainly not a great team. We are probably somewhere between a very good team and just a good team with the scale tipping more to Duke being just a good team.

I do not think that anyone would be surprised if we lose our first game. That is not to say that Duke cannot go further...Here's hoping that we do !!!

How long has it been since entering the tournament that we would be happy just to make the Sweet 16 ?

Dukebacker
03-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Took a quick look at VCU stats

and they have 3 guys that shoot above 40% from 3 point range. Looks like it could be a toughy if our perimeter D doesn't show up.

devilmon
03-11-2007, 07:09 PM
It's been a while. HOWEVER, it's also been a long time that we've been a "sleeper" while everyone is counting us out of contention.

cbarry
03-11-2007, 07:11 PM
Is the Thursday game in Buffalo an afternoon or evening game? (Trying to scrounge for some tickets)

DHTimes are usually announced Monday.

jimbonelson
03-11-2007, 07:12 PM
if we cant be vcu then i will be glad the season will be over

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 07:14 PM
if we cant be vcu then i will be glad the season will be over

Why do you even post that? Seriously? VCU isnt a horrible team, Not great. If we lose i will be sad the season is over.

freshmanjs
03-11-2007, 07:16 PM
Regardless of the pairings, I'm happy to see Duke get a 6 seed. Historically, 7 seeds (where I thought Duke would be) have won less than half their first-round games.

that isn't true. 7 seeds have won 60% of the time in the 1st round.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 07:17 PM
umm, what exactly does this mean?

a) it helped us big time
b) but, you're not happy about it

please explain -- you'd rather us do things that don't help us? or you'd rather see us play sh!tty opponents early in the season?

1. I'm always happy when things work out for duke. I'm a huge fan and always want us to win no matter what, so this isn't some secret wish for us to lose. On the contrary, I want us to win as much as possible...

2. Which is why I DO NOT like the scheduling we did OOC this year. K, as he has done routinely in the recent past, played a weak OOC schedule relative to the ones he used to play in the 90s; however, he made sure it would still benefit us on selection Sunday by making sure we teams that were very strong within their much seaker conferences. And all at Cameron or on neutral courts, too. No real road games. Now, on selection sunday, this is great strategy. You beat those teams in your own building then they go back and dominate their lower-tier conferences and your RPI soars because of your opponents' winning percentages. Where is hurts you, however, is in the development of your team during the season. After several games against a depleted George Mason, Kent State and a bunch of other "mid-majors," right in nice, comfy CIS, this team was not prepared to go on the road and play in the ACC. One need only look at how we performed on the road in the first half of conference play this year to confirm this. Our first ACC road game was a 74-63 (i think) loss to Georgia Tech.


You cannot prepare for the rigors of the toughest conference in the nation by staying out of opponents' gyms all the way through the month of december and playing teams that you will out-talent every single year. This team was the youngest K has ever had. It needed to get a couple of doses of reality early. Instead those wake-up calls didn't come until conference play and our conference record is not as good as it could be IMO, for that reason, IMO.

So K's scheduling strategy did what it was designed to do. We were 4-6 down the stretch yet still managed to get a 6 seed, a dream of a draw on paper, AND get sent to Buffalo where we will actually have some fans. Now we'll see how well the team is prepared to take advantage of this design.

I realize that almost everything above is my opinion, not fact. I strongly feel that K's scheduling philosophy has changed over the years, and not for the better. I believe in tough scheduling and am quite dismayed at the way K has gotten away from it over the years, preferring instead to put together a schedule that will provide maximum rpi points for minimum effort. If a team is deep, experienced and loaded it doesn't really matter all that much. But in a year like this, when there really was no time to waste in the development of this incredibly young team, this was a serious mistake, IMO, and has cost us.

I would be absolutely thrilled to the point of ecstacy if I can come on here in 3 weeks and gush about how incredibly wrong I was about this.

ehdg
03-11-2007, 07:19 PM
I agree for a change we didn't get screwed by the committee. I think we got a fair opening round game with a decent chance in the 2nd round game. But let's not get caught looking ahead. As Coach say Next play and that is VCU. Let's work on preparing for that game and take care of business before we even start thinking about the 2nd round game. Sounds like our 3 guards will need to put on their defensive caps and lace up their shoes tight and come prepared to play some tough D. I believe the key for us will be Defense and we'll need to make a very strong Defensive showing in this game. Good Luck guys and let's get to work on preparing for our opening round game!!

ehdg

Kewlswim
03-11-2007, 07:20 PM
They sure looked excited to play us. We don't have the worst draw, but it ain't gonna be a cake walk either.

Hi,

I think there is a perception, with some merit, that Duke is weak and vulnerable. So, a team is happy to see us on their line. However, the ACC was the number one ranked conference in the nation for a reason and the Devils have done well against non-ACC foes.

I think this could be just what the Dr. ordered. However, I seem to remember hearing they have quick, athletic guards. I am not sure they have faced the kind of defense Duke can play. I think it boils down to this--if Duke comes ready to play they can make some noise in this draw (I am believing that more and more), however, if they sleep walk through it, it will be an early exit.

I have confidence in Coach K. Don't forget, the team will be rested too. We are a caged, hurt, angry animal ready to let loose. I hope that at least.

GO DUKE!

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 07:22 PM
Hi,

I think there is a perception, with some merit, that Duke is weak and vulnerable. So, a team is happy to see us on their line. However, the ACC was the number one ranked conference in the nation for a reason and the Devils have done well against non-ACC foes.

I think this could be just what the Dr. ordered. However, I seem to remember hearing they have quick, athletic guards. I am not sure they have faced the kind of defense Duke can play. I think it boils down to this--if Duke comes ready to play they can make some noise in this draw (I am believing that more and more), however, if they sleep walk through it, it will be an early exit.

I have confidence in Coach K. Don't forget, the team will be rested too. We are a caged, hurt, angry animal ready to let loose. I hope that at least.

GO DUKE!


Wounded animals are always the most dangerous!

jimbonelson
03-11-2007, 07:23 PM
because of there personel and ours of course i would be upset if the season was over, and i understand vcu might be a tough matchup we should beat them easy

Troublemaker
03-11-2007, 07:25 PM
I like this draw. We should be able to keep our Sweet 16 streak alive. And if UCLA gets upset, maybe an Elite 8 appearance...

dukeisawesome
03-11-2007, 07:29 PM
I don't think K's scheduling was necessarily bad. From another perspective, this was a very young team and if they started off with a bunch of losses, it would not have been good for the confidence of the team. Marquette was a wake-up call and it was pretty obvious after tough games against Air Force, Gonzaga, Indiana, etc. that this was not the same Duke team as in the past. I'm pretty sure the players were aware of this and not just the fans. I do agree we should go on the road a bit though as it seems we never play road games out of conference anymore.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 07:30 PM
No easy games when you are a 6 seed, but I am thrilled with our first weekend possibilities! With improved defense and good shooting, we'll make it to the Sweet 16. UCLA as a potential opponent in that game presents a challenge, but one that can be met.

That we didn't get a killer game for our second round (not taking VCU for granted here, but I certainly expect us to beat them) is very surprising to me. The "committee" didn't screw us for a change!



Duke's draws have never upset me in the past but this one unbelievable. In Buffalo, winnable games in the first two rounds, will be favored in the 2nd round if we get that far -- for a SIX seed. Incredible.

Tappan Zee Devil
03-11-2007, 07:32 PM
Bwahahahahaha!

OK got me - but he can't get names right either

VaDukie
03-11-2007, 07:36 PM
This may be an overreaction because in high school I lived 2 miles from vcu, but they are a dangerous first round matchup. If we don't come to play, we are done.

drion97
03-11-2007, 07:37 PM
2. Which is why I DO NOT like the scheduling we did OOC this year. K, as he has done routinely in the recent past, played a weak OOC schedule relative to the ones he used to play in the 90s; however, he made sure it would still benefit us on selection Sunday by making sure we teams that were very strong within their much seaker conferences. And all at Cameron or on neutral courts, too. No real road games. Now, on selection sunday, this is great strategy. You beat those teams in your own building then they go back and dominate their lower-tier conferences and your RPI soars because of your opponents' winning percentages. Where is hurts you, however, is in the development of your team during the season. After several games against a depleted George Mason, Kent State and a bunch of other "mid-majors," right in nice, comfy CIS, this team was not prepared to go on the road and play in the ACC. One need only look at how we performed on the road in the first half of conference play this year to confirm this. Our first ACC road game was a 74-63 (i think) loss to Georgia Tech.

First of all-- because of our big name and TV, we often play teams on neutral courts. Look at the ACC/BIG 10 challenege-- we've often been in Chicago rather than a home court. And we play big names in Madison Square Garden etc.

But with more and more pre-season tournaments, and more random big name neutral site games, you just don't see big names going to true road games. It's not like every other big name out there played tons of great true road games.

True, if we played at Gonzaga, or at Illinois or something we might've been better prepared for ACC road games. BUT, with such a young team, K admitted that this was the most home weighed schedule in a long time (since the 50's i think).

Botton line, we had one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the nation, and in conference we played AT a 1 seed, two 4 seeds, one 5 seed, and one 7 seed. And you want our schedule to be harder?

You can look at our backloaded ACC schedule in a positive way and say that the early ACC games are easier and our time to develop.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 07:38 PM
I don't think K's scheduling was necessarily bad. From another perspective, this was a very young team and if they started off with a bunch of losses, it would not have been good for the confidence of the team. Marquette was a wake-up call and it was pretty obvious after tough games against Air Force, Gonzaga, Indiana, etc. that this was not the same Duke team as in the past. I'm pretty sure the players were aware of this and not just the fans. I do agree we should go on the road a bit though as it seems we never play road games out of conference anymore.

It is the road part that bothers me most as well. These are freshmen and I think keeping them in front of their adoring fans for as long as possible and taking them on the road only when the league dictates that you must gives them a false sense of confidence. I do agree with you that you wouldn't want to give them a brutal start, like at Florida and Kansas this year, but they needed to go into a couple of truly hostile road gyms against some real competition early, so that they got a more realistic sense of where they were and where they needed to go. This team was not ready for conference play out of the gate this season, IMO, and I do fault K's scheduling for that to some extent.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 07:47 PM
First of all-- because of our big name and TV, we often play teams on neutral courts. Look at the ACC/BIG 10 challenege-- we've often been in Chicago rather than a home court. And we play big names in Madison Square Garden etc.

But with more and more pre-season tournaments, and more random big name neutral site games, you just don't see big names going to true road games. It's not like every other big name out there played tons of great true road games.

True, if we played at Gonzaga, or at Illinois or something we might've been better prepared for ACC road games. BUT, with such a young team, K admitted that this was the most home weighed schedule in a long time (since the 50's i think).

Botton line, we had one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the nation, and in conference we played AT a 1 seed, two 4 seeds, one 5 seed, and one 7 seed. And you want our schedule to be harder?

You can look at our backloaded ACC schedule in a positive way and say that the early ACC games are easier and our time to develop.

Players don't develop until they see a need to do so. Blowing out Columbia, Georgia Southern and UNC-Greensboro in consecutive games at home doesn't make them see anything.


We play big games in MSG or the Meadowlands every year because that's what K wants to do. Scheduling is almost entirely up to him. Yes, someone on the other side has to say yes but if K wants to go play somebody real, in their house, the opportunity is always there. Lute Olsen has been trying to bait K into picking up their series again for years. He won't do it. And as for the mid-majors K loves to bring into Cameron these days, if K wanted to play one of those games on Venus, the other team's AD would book flights on the space shuttle. He is in complete control of exactly where or when he plays any of those teams. And the only place he plays any of them in CIS. I do not think this does anything really for our team's development. RPI points, yes, but not development.

And I'm not talking about scheduling like Tom Izzo did a few years back where you play the entire top 25. I'm just saying that, what if we went to Kent State instead of playing them at home this year. And then we also dropped the Temple series and replaced them with a true home-and-home series with, say, UCLA, Arizona or LSU (all of whom we used to visit regularly), well then I think this year's schedule would have been much better.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 07:50 PM
It's not unrealistic at all with this draw. How sweet would it be after this season to see the evil smurfs get upset again and actually have a game to watch in the second week(end?) while they sit at home.

OMG, it's almost too delicious to contemplate!

dukelifer
03-11-2007, 07:58 PM
Although I have not seen them play- they appear to be guard oriented and three are seniors and shoot well from three. I don't think they have much of an inside game. Lately- we have been hurt by size- so while I expect a tough fight- McBob is a tough matchup for them. A lot will depend on how he plays.

Delaware
03-11-2007, 08:00 PM
Could be an interesting crowd with Terps fans there as well.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 08:01 PM
Although I have not seen them play- they appear to be guard oriented and three are seniors and shoot well from three. I don't think they have much of an inside game. Lately- we have been hurt by size- so while I expect a tough fight- McBob is a tough matchup for them. A lot will depend on how he plays.

apparently, VCU has quick guards and shoots a lot of threes. I think the key to the game will be their 3pt shooting. I expect us to back off a bit at the outet so they can't penetrate as easily. But if they start hitting shots, K will have to tighten up the D, which will lead to blowbys, layups and foul trouble.

A good strategy to employ would be to identify their best shooter and put the best on-ball defender, probably DN, on him and play that guy tight. Tell everyone else to back off and hope they don't get red hot.

Offensively, it's probably a matter of patience and getting mcroberts to look to score.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 08:03 PM
Could be an interesting crowd with Terps fans there as well.

Crap, so much for our homecourt edge in upstate NY then. I hadn't looked at the bracket closely enough to see that. Oh well, hopefully we'll have the pleasure on Saturday of becoming the first 6-seed to get booed off the floor after knocking off a 3.

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 08:03 PM
They have alot of good guards.

Their two tallest guys are 6'7. Should be able to beat them inside all game long(IF McRoberts is playing like he did in the 2nd half against St.)

They have a 6'10 and a 6'8 guy but they play about as much as Zoubek does. So they are a non-factor.

coblue
03-11-2007, 08:05 PM
Having caught them on TV a couple of weekends, VCU CAN win this game.

They play fast and hard and will attack. Their coach is a Donovan protege.

It could be real frustrating or it could be a spring board game for the team.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 08:07 PM
They have alot of good guards.

Their two tallest guys are 6'7. Should be able to beat them inside all game long(IF McRoberts is playing like he did in the 2nd half against St.)

They have a 6'10 and a 6'8 guy but they play about as much as Zoubek does. So they are a non-factor.

Hopefully, big Z will see a lot of minutes in this game. I think we should slow it down, play halfcourt and pound it inside all day.

DukeBlood
03-11-2007, 08:14 PM
Hopefully, big Z will see a lot of minutes in this game. I think we should slow it down, play halfcourt and pound it inside all day.

Exactly what i had in mind. Josh and Brian need to dominate inside. Lance even needs to see some time pounding it inside. VCU's strengths are in their guards and up-tempo play.

So slowwwwwwwwww it down!@

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 08:21 PM
Exactly what i had in mind. Josh and Brian need to dominate inside. Lance even needs to see some time pounding it inside. VCU's strengths are in their guards and up-tempo play.

So slowwwwwwwwww it down!@



Hopefully that would also mean fewer turnovers for us. Of course, none of this is all that tough to think of, so I wouldn't be surprised to see VCU press, or at the very least pressure and trap Paulus as hard as they can. That would help force tempo, too. But with time to prepare, hopefully we'd see our bigs flashing to the center court area regularly to break full-court pressure and produce easy baskets.

jipops
03-11-2007, 08:25 PM
I have a family member who has been way into VCU and talking them up all season.

Don't know if they're FF material but these guys can definitely make noise. They have 3 very reliable guards that don't turn it over that much. Pellot-Rosa can really shoot. There isn't much scoring past their guards but they definitely have enough to knock us off. Their experience gives them a large advantage as well.

If we get back to the D we played earlier in the season we'll be fine in the 1st round. If not, we'll just have next season to look forward to.

dcarp23
03-11-2007, 08:30 PM
They play fast and hard and will attack. Their coach is a Donovan protege.

According to Ken Pomeroy, VCU averages 65 possessions a game, the same number as...Duke.

While the VCU guards do present cause for concern, the pace of play should not be an issue.

Troublemaker
03-11-2007, 08:41 PM
I'd be very surprised if VCU can knock off Duke. I expect Duke to go to a 4-guard lineup for the tournament, and since VCU is guard-oriented, Duke's guards just have to be better than VCU's guards for the victory. I would hope that would be the case at least 9 out of 10 times.

MChambers
03-11-2007, 08:44 PM
According to Pomeroy. They actually rank 234th in the country in attempting 3s, but shoot them well (40%, 18th in the country).

Defensively, they seem to give up a high shooting percentage both from 2 and 3, but force a fair number of turnovers.

These statistics suggest to me that we really need to avoid turning the ball over (sound familiar) and to limit dribble penetration (also familiar?)

They beat George Mason 3 times, with scores roughly comparable to our defeat of George Mason. Only top 50 team they played was Xavier, I think.

Pomeroy's server must be overloaded! It's really slow right now.

Duke15304
03-11-2007, 08:44 PM
about the draw, i jsut dont get it, when we are #1, we always seem to get hard draws

fogey
03-11-2007, 08:45 PM
team should get a lift by the return of GH, and IF marty is allowed, by his energy and offensive penetration and overall hustle.

dukie8
03-11-2007, 08:47 PM
we could not have asked for a better draw. a 6 seed with a very winnable first round game and a very over-rated and vulnerable 3 in pitt. compare that to throwing texas at unc for the 3rd round. texas is beter than all the other 4s, 3s and 2s except for maybe ucla. if unc gets by them, then they have gtown waiting for them with hibbert who can handle their bigs and green who can shred them. then if they get by gtown, they get to deal with oden and company.

why is florida the #1 #1 and not in the south?

cavespringer
03-11-2007, 08:47 PM
I believe VCU can be a tough game for Duke; they are fast, scrappy and not intimidated easily. They lost to Xavier by three and Toledo by one, both in November. They finished the season by beating Drexel twice and splitting with ODU. They should not be looked past; that would be a mistake.

dukie8
03-11-2007, 08:53 PM
i completely agree about the scheduling and have been saying it for the past few years. scheduling the butlers, valpos, gms and kent sts at home does not, contrary to what k says, prepare the team for the ncaas. play them on the road and that will be much better preparation. k gets a pass this year because the team was young. hopefully we get some real ooc road games on the schedule for next year so it's our guys aren't shell shocked when they hit their first hostile crowd in january. playing in msg and the meadowlands is basically playing at home because the crowd is 90% duke. however, our nov/dec schedule sure was better than uconn's...

mehmattski
03-11-2007, 09:01 PM
Duke has had quite a run of getting to the tournament with a high seed and getting opponents that the fans could "look past." However, I don't think that the Duke coaching staff has ever looked past any opponent. Being a lower-seeded team, the opponent is going to be better; "looking past" is not a problem I see Duke having.

That said, there are not many teams in the lower half of the South bracket that Duke fans could look at and say "Oh no!" When Duke has played its lockdown defense, they've shown they can play with teams like Pittsburgh and UCLA. Then again, when Duke shows its porous defense like against UNC and NCSU in the past week, we see a team that is certainly capable of dropping the first round game against an efficient offensive team.

Duke will probably play the four-guard offense, due to matchups on defense against VCU. This is also good for Duke's offense, and I think having Henderon and Nelson on the court at the same time will be too much for VCU's poor defense. Despite the quick guards, VCU isn't a fast-paced team, and I think Duke should exploit this, pushing the pace. If they combine that with lock down defense, Duke could go to a solid victory.

Duke15304
03-11-2007, 09:06 PM
if we lose this one, i will be very dissapointed

tombrady
03-11-2007, 09:12 PM
Players don't develop until they see a need to do so. Blowing out Columbia, Georgia Southern and UNC-Greensboro in consecutive games at home doesn't make them see anything.


We play big games in MSG or the Meadowlands every year because that's what K wants to do. Scheduling is almost entirely up to him. Yes, someone on the other side has to say yes but if K wants to go play somebody real, in their house, the opportunity is always there. Lute Olsen has been trying to bait K into picking up their series again for years. He won't do it. And as for the mid-majors K loves to bring into Cameron these days, if K wanted to play one of those games on Venus, the other team's AD would book flights on the space shuttle. He is in complete control of exactly where or when he plays any of those teams. And the only place he plays any of them in CIS. I do not think this does anything really for our team's development. RPI points, yes, but not development.

And I'm not talking about scheduling like Tom Izzo did a few years back where you play the entire top 25. I'm just saying that, what if we went to Kent State instead of playing them at home this year. And then we also dropped the Temple series and replaced them with a true home-and-home series with, say, UCLA, Arizona or LSU (all of whom we used to visit regularly), well then I think this year's schedule would have been much better.

At the same time, you have to weigh everything. A loss to a mid-major hurts, and will affect your seeding come tourney time -- i mean, look how much importance they place on OOC. So what's more valuable, when the ultimate goal is to win the NCAA? An extra "preparation" game or two, which could result in losses, which doesn't exactly help confidence, and will lower your ultimate NCAA seed? Or some wins that will help your seeding in the long run? I'd rather end up with a better seed, than a lower seed but have that "mental edge" from playing some mid-major 4 months ago.

I agree, playing road games against good teams will help your team get better at playing on hostile courts....but at what cost?

dyedwab
03-11-2007, 09:20 PM
I have a family member who has been way into VCU and talking them up all season.

Don't know if they're FF material but these guys can definitely make noise. They have 3 very reliable guards that don't turn it over that much. Pellot-Rosa can really shoot. There isn't much scoring past their guards but they definitely have enough to knock us off. Their experience gives them a large advantage as well.

If we get back to the D we played earlier in the season we'll be fine in the 1st round. If not, we'll just have next season to look forward to.

Last year's George Mason, otherwise known as George Mason, should have beaten them in their conference final. But in the 4th game in 4 days, they couldn't buy a basket in the last 8 minutes of the final.

VCU is a good team that plays good fundamental ball. We shouldn't look passed them, but they are lot like teams we handled well earlier this season - Davidson, George Mason, Kent State, etc.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 09:27 PM
According to Ken Pomeroy, VCU averages 65 possessions a game, the same number as...Duke.

While the VCU guards do present cause for concern, the pace of play should not be an issue.

if they are as quick and guard oriented as we keep hearing, i think it makes sense for them to push tempo and pressure, so I think it's likely they'll want to play a little faster than we do.

Clipsfan
03-11-2007, 09:27 PM
about the draw, i jsut dont get it, when we are #1, we always seem to get hard draws

I think that normally we look further into the bracket than we are at the moment. Our perception of this draw relates to the first 2 rounds, while in past years we'd be upset that we had both Kansas and UCLA in our bracket.

gep
03-11-2007, 09:37 PM
Jay Bilas said that while VCU has strong guards, they don't have an much of an inside presence, and so the edge has to go to Duke. This was also pointed out by other posters earlier. He said that much of the mid-major discussions were about their guards, but he pointed out that George Mason, last year, while there was much talk about their guards, did have a good inside presence. And that's what took them to the Final Four. I hope Jay's observations are on-point on this VCU/Duke game...

feldspar
03-11-2007, 09:44 PM
Jay Bilas said that while VCU has strong guards, they don't have an much of an inside presence, and so the edge has to go to Duke. This was also pointed out by other posters earlier. He said that much of the mid-major discussions were about their guards, but he pointed out that George Mason, last year, while there was much talk about their guards, did have a good inside presence. And that's what took them to the Final Four. I hope Jay's observations are on-point on this VCU/Duke game...

The more and more I think about this, the more and more excited I'm getting. We couldn't DREAM of a better 1st round matchup. We get a really good test for our frontcourt defense, and there is the REAL possibility for Josh to have a monster game against their weak frontcourt and finally have a real, bona-fide, break-out performance.

It all depends on how we come out of the gate. We don't have to blow out VCU, but if we handle them easily and get some real momentum under this team, they're VERY capable of going on a little streak, I think.

Bob Green
03-11-2007, 09:45 PM
Billy Thacker just said that VCU will be a dangerous challange for us!

well?

It is Billy Packer. Jim Thacker was his broadcast partner before Billy went national with CBS. This was back in the days of Pilot Life sponsoring the ACC Game of the Week. I know I'm nitpicking, but...

Bob Green
(Yokosuka, Japan)

Duke15304
03-11-2007, 09:52 PM
just being a pain in the *** about how bad packer is but still nice to know about that, i didnt know who the play by play was back then

gep
03-11-2007, 09:52 PM
This is interesting... I thought that the Billy "Thacker" was deliberate... kinda like all of the Hans, Hansbro, Hansblablah, etc stuff. Obviously, Jim Thacker was broadcasting well before I remember watching ACC hoops...

feldspar
03-11-2007, 10:08 PM
This is interesting... I thought that the Billy "Thacker" was deliberate... kinda like all of the Hans, Hansbro, Hansblablah, etc stuff. Obviously, Jim Thacker was broadcasting well before I remember watching ACC hoops...

You forgot Hansbra. :)

CDu
03-11-2007, 10:24 PM
It's a solid matchup. It could be better, but it could be worse. VCU is small and shoots 3s. They aren't going to beat us on the boards. We historically defend the 3 well, so that helps.

That said, they do have a very talented PG, and they have 3 gifted guards (and 5 good outside shooters). But they won't likely be able to make Paulus pay with a mismatch, because all of their guards are small. And they don't have an interior presence to put pressure on McRoberts. And if they press, you'll see a lot of McRoberts with the ball, which is a good thing.

If we get to play Pitt, that's again not a terrible matchup. They like to muck it up, and they don't have a take-over-the-game type of player. Gray is good, but can be defended. Their backcourt isn't overwhelming.

Again, we could easily lose and lose badly to either team. But as matchups go, this isn't a bad set of opponents. For example, I wouldn't want Stanford/Texas A&M, or Winthrop/Oregon.

devildownunder
03-11-2007, 10:41 PM
I think that normally we look further into the bracket than we are at the moment. Our perception of this draw relates to the first 2 rounds, while in past years we'd be upset that we had both Kansas and UCLA in our bracket.

fine point, you're right on the money. Only the first two rounds are ever gimmes no matter how high you are seeded. After that, you should absolutely expect to play someone tough, so if you're a 1 and your 2-4 are tough, fine. So are everyone else's, and that's the way it should be.

Highlander
03-11-2007, 11:31 PM
Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

dukie8
03-11-2007, 11:40 PM
Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

indiana was courtesy of the big 10/acc challenge so we had no control over that. i'm not sure what the rules are for assigning home games in that challenge. we did have full control over littering our schedule with home games against the likes of davidson, holy cross, gm, kent st and temple. you can't tell me that we would not have been better prepared for road acc games had we gone on the road for at least one of them. it's time to dump st john's and temple and get some better teams on the road-and-road circuit. the way that those teams play one of these years one of our guys is going to suffer a broken arm on one of their fouls.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 12:29 AM
Hopefully, big Z will see a lot of minutes in this game. I think we should slow it down, play halfcourt and pound it inside all day.

Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 12:33 AM
i completely agree about the scheduling and have been saying it for the past few years. scheduling the butlers, valpos, gms and kent sts at home does not, contrary to what k says, prepare the team for the ncaas. play them on the road and that will be much better preparation. k gets a pass this year because the team was young. hopefully we get some real ooc road games on the schedule for next year so it's our guys aren't shell shocked when they hit their first hostile crowd in january. playing in msg and the meadowlands is basically playing at home because the crowd is 90% duke. however, our nov/dec schedule sure was better than uconn's...

Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:37 AM
Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

I was fully aware that we played Air Force and Marquette on a neutral floor this year when I was complaining about the schedule earlier.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:39 AM
Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

no, sadly, I can only go by what I have been told about their lineup. They don't have a man above 6'7". I have to believe Z can do some rebounding against a team with that kind of personnel and my thought was that's why he belonged in the game (yes, i know i mentioned zoubek in the same post I mentioned throwing the ball inside). But no, I haven't seen them.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:41 AM
At the same time, you have to weigh everything. A loss to a mid-major hurts, and will affect your seeding come tourney time -- i mean, look how much importance they place on OOC. So what's more valuable, when the ultimate goal is to win the NCAA? An extra "preparation" game or two, which could result in losses, which doesn't exactly help confidence, and will lower your ultimate NCAA seed? Or some wins that will help your seeding in the long run? I'd rather end up with a better seed, than a lower seed but have that "mental edge" from playing some mid-major 4 months ago.

I agree, playing road games against good teams will help your team get better at playing on hostile courts....but at what cost?


Then go play the road games against high majors. That's what we used to do. And quite successfully, I might add.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:43 AM
i completely agree about the scheduling and have been saying it for the past few years. scheduling the butlers, valpos, gms and kent sts at home does not, contrary to what k says, prepare the team for the ncaas. play them on the road and that will be much better preparation. k gets a pass this year because the team was young. hopefully we get some real ooc road games on the schedule for next year so it's our guys aren't shell shocked when they hit their first hostile crowd in january. playing in msg and the meadowlands is basically playing at home because the crowd is 90% duke. however, our nov/dec schedule sure was better than uconn's...

Yeah, what is calhoun's winning percentage against quinnipiac anyway?

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:46 AM
Well, do remember that we had a home and home series with Georgetown and Indiana. We played BOTH on the road last year in hostile environments. This year we played both at home. I'm sure some of it was intentional, but Duke isn't going to give up their half of a home and home just to make their schedule harder.

I think we step out of conference and play pretty challenging teams most years. I was kind of disappointed we had so many home games and no real road games early, but with a young team that might not have been a bad thing. We could have easily lost Indiana and Holy Cross if we played those games on the road. And that could have tipped us off the bubble.

Again, there is no need to give up half of anything. There were plenty of cupcakes on the schedule this year who could have been knocked off in favor of beginning a home-and-home with somebody legitimate and playing that game on the road.

Aren't people tired of our guys looking shell-shocked (thank you dukie8, perfect word) when they go to maryland, gtech or wherever for that first real road game -- in late january?

Someone else already touched on the Indiana scheduling. ACC/big-ten challenge, not a home-and-home contract between the schools. Georgetown has turned out to be a pretty good opponent. I hope they stay on now that it looks like they are on the rise. That would be good.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:55 AM
Have you seen VCU play? If you had, trust me, you'd know this isn't a good matchup for Big Z.

OK. Why not?

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 02:57 AM
no, sadly, I can only go by what I have been told about their lineup. They don't have a man above 6'7". I have to believe Z can do some rebounding against a team with that kind of personnel and my thought was that's why he belonged in the game (yes, i know i mentioned zoubek in the same post I mentioned throwing the ball inside). But no, I haven't seen them.

VCU is really quick. They don't really have anyone Zoubek can guard effectively. I would not expect to see him play much.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 02:57 AM
Next year includes a trip to Maui, which features another strong field. So, Duke will get some good neutral-floor experience against tough competition.
BTW, everyone overlooks the Air Force/Marquette neutral-floor combo this year. That was not easy, by any means. G-Town was a home game this year; next year Duke will have to go to their place.

do you know who we play on the road out of conference next year and where? I assume we'll have g'town and somebody from the big ten (although the big ten game may be neutral site). Do you know who else we have?

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 03:13 AM
do you know we play on the road out of conference next year and where? I assume we'll have g'town and somebody from the big ten (although the big ten game may be neutral site). Do you know who else we have?

No, the schedule isn't released yet. I know the Georgetown series continues. I'm almost positive the St. John's series continues (next year will be at Cameron). I wouldn't mind ending the Temple series, and I have no idea how many years are left on it. But with Maui, Georgetown and the Big 10/ACC Challenge alone, the guys will get a good test.

Honestly, I don't understand the complaints about this year's schedule. I think it's one of the better schedules Duke has played in a while. Seriously, the complaints (especially at this point in the season) boggle my mind.

Fact: Duke faced six Tourney teams OOC (Marquette, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga), and that doesn't include Air Force, an excellent team that suffered and inexplicable collapse.

Fact: Duke's home record in the ACC was 4-4. So was its road record. so, it's hard to say Duke was "shell-shocked" by going on the road in the ACC. More to the point, the ACC was a ridiculously tough conference this year. Everyone was good. I find it difficult to believe one tough road game would have prepared the team any differently than facing a team of Georgetown's caliber anywhere or teams like Marquette, Air Force and Gonzaga on neutral floors.

Fact: Regardless of who Duke's lack of OOC road games, it just played a brutal ACC schedule, including a host of tough road games. This team is nothing if not battle-tested by this point.

Fact: It takes two to tango in terms of scheduling. Duke has discussed series with different schools, and some of those schools demand things Duke isn't willing to do. Others want no part of the Cameron half of the series. You can't get on K for scheduling when you aren't aware what other schools are willing to do:

Fact: Series deals can cover a span of years, and there's no way to predict how good a team would be. Some fans had suggested a home-and-home with Syracuse. Well, Cuse missed the Tourney this year. People would have written that game off the same way they wrote off playing at Indiana last year. Other perennial powers like Kentucky, Arizona and Michigan State were all seeded eighth or lower. Simply put, if you sign a deal with a team, just about any team, in fact, you run the risk of that program declining in quality.

I really, really think that at this point, scheduling is a non-issue. And I'll fight anyone tooth and nail who claims Duke played a weak schedule this year.

Bob Green
03-12-2007, 03:18 AM
it's time to dump st john's and temple and get some better teams on the road-and-road circuit. the way that those teams play one of these years one of our guys is going to suffer a broken arm on one of their fouls.

I agree with pursuing different match-ups in place of Temple and St. John's (even though I love us playing at MSG). Those two teams no longer bring the level of competition that we need. In years past, we had home and away series with Notre Dame, Arizona, and UCLA late in the year. We need that big OOC test at the end of the year as well as a true road game early. I would relish a series with teams such as Florida, Kansas, or USC.

I am sure that scheduling games involves tough negotiations. How many schools, from power conferences, desire to travel to CIS and face Duke, in the middle of their conference schedule home stretch?

Additionally, you negotiate to place a tough team on your schedule and then that team experiences some defections to the NBA, a key injury, or a bad recruiting year and you end up with a game against a power conference door mat.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

dukeisawesome
03-12-2007, 08:21 AM
Since VCU is weak inside, McRoberts had better step up and play like a big man. I hope that isn't too much to ask.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 08:32 AM
No, the schedule isn't released yet. I know the Georgetown series continues. I'm almost positive the St. John's series continues (next year will be at Cameron). I wouldn't mind ending the Temple series, and I have no idea how many years are left on it. But with Maui, Georgetown and the Big 10/ACC Challenge alone, the guys will get a good test..

Maui should be pretty good competition. It's been better but that's a positive. Neutral site though. G'town on the road is excellent. Big 10 challenge will be on the road next year. Let's see if it's a true road game.


Jumbo said: Honestly, I don't understand the complaints about this year's schedule. I think it's one of the better schedules Duke has played in a while. Seriously, the complaints (especially at this point in the season) boggle my mind.


I ended up steering this thread around toward scheduling when someone asked me to clarify why I wasn't thrilled with the way K, imo, worked the system with our OOC sked this year. This didn't start as a thread to predict a first-round loss because of scheduling.


Jumbo said: Fact: Duke faced six Tourney teams OOC (Marquette, Davidson, Indiana, Georgetown, Holy Cross, Gonzaga), and that doesn't include Air Force, an excellent team that suffered and inexplicable collapse.

And not a single one was in the opponent's home arena, which is a big part of what we have been talking about. In fact, all except marquette and air force were at Cameron, except Gonzaga, which was at MSG, a home away from home when a west coast team is the opposition. Also, Indiana was not by choice.

Jumbo said: Fact: Duke's home record in the ACC was 4-4. So was its road record. so, it's hard to say Duke was "shell-shocked" by going on the road in the ACC. More to the point, the ACC was a ridiculously tough conference this year. Everyone was good. I find it difficult to believe one tough road game would have prepared the team any differently than facing a team of Georgetown's caliber anywhere or teams like Marquette, Air Force and Gonzaga on neutral floors.

"Shell-shocked" refers to how they reacted early in the conference season, when they had to play their first real road game all year at Georgia Tech. I think it's fair to say we were not ready for that contest. A road game against a major-conference opponent early in the season would have helped immensely in that regard. At this point, yes, they've got some experience but I'm saying why wait until the conference season, when the games are so much more important?

Jumbo said: Fact: Regardless of who Duke's lack of OOC road games, it just played a brutal ACC schedule, including a host of tough road games. This team is nothing if not battle-tested by this point.


this is largely true. I argue that they'd be even better prepared had they seen more tough competition early but there is no doubt that this year's ACC was quite the crucible.


Jumbo said: Fact: It takes two to tango in terms of scheduling. Duke has discussed series with different schools, and some of those schools demand things Duke isn't willing to do. Others want no part of the Cameron half of the series. You can't get on K for scheduling when you aren't aware what other schools are willing to do.


Again, there are two ways this works. In the case of duke scheduling a mid-major or low-major, K can completely call the shots. It's way too big an opportunity for them to say no to Duke. In any given year, K could play one and dones in the home gym of valpo, george mason, vcu and a hundred other teams if he wanted. Not saying that would be ideal but it's completely up to him. Now, with a power team, you quite correct, it's a negotiation. But the point is, K has had plenty of opportunities. And he has been involved in home-and-homes in the past. He has changed his philosophy on this in that he is no longer adding new ones and has allowed the st.john's and temple series to fester on (perhaps for recruiting purposes) despite the loooooong downtrend for both programs. For reasons already explained, I think this is a bad idea. Now you may say "how do you know what he has tried to do?" But I ask you, what is more likely, that NOT ONE TOP-TIER PROGRAM is willing to play us home-and-home or that K is the reason we're no longer playing those games?

Jumbo said: Fact: Series deals can cover a span of years, and there's no way to predict how good a team would be. Some fans had suggested a home-and-home with Syracuse. Well, Cuse missed the Tourney this year. People would have written that game off the same way they wrote off playing at Indiana last year. Other perennial powers like Kentucky, Arizona and Michigan State were all seeded eighth or lower. Simply put, if you sign a deal with a team, just about any team, in fact, you run the risk of that program declining in quality.


Absolutely correct. And K has shown that he will get out of them when a long-standing contract no longer suits his needs. Perfect case in point, the end of the michigan series. But that didn't happen because Michigan had fallen on hard times. It happened because Amaker took the job there. Series over. Review: St. John's falls off, we keep playing. Michigan falls off, we only stop when one of K's former players becomes the coach.



Jumbo said: I really, really think that at this point, scheduling is a non-issue. And I'll fight anyone tooth and nail who claims Duke played a weak schedule this year.

It's not just who you play, it's where you play them; and when it comes to discerning schedule philosophy, it's also why.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 08:42 AM
VCU is really quick. They don't really have anyone Zoubek can guard effectively. I would not expect to see him play much.


what if, and i'm seriously just throwing this out here, we played some zone and let him rebound and try to block shots? better defense against dribble penetration, maximize our height advantage, etc? Don't say it can't happen!

Susan
03-12-2007, 09:21 AM
This is interesting... I thought that the Billy "Thacker" was deliberate... kinda like all of the Hans, Hansbro, Hansblablah, etc stuff. Obviously, Jim Thacker was broadcasting well before I remember watching ACC hoops...

Those were the days--Jim Thacker, Billy Packer, and Bones McKinney... I miss them!

Sail with the Pilot! Holly Farms Chicken!

koolaidRAM
03-12-2007, 09:21 AM
Hello All. I am a fan from VCU, and just wanted to come over and check out your boards.

We are very excited that we have a chance to play Duke in the first round. We know how strong you are, but I think you will agree with me that this year you have been more beatable than in past years.

With that said, I'll give you a little more info on VCU.

For starters, you are all correct in saying that VCU is a guard oriented team. We have 2 senior guards in BA Walker and Jesse Pellot-Rosa. BA walker is the schools all-time leader in 3-point shooting, and 10th all time scoring. Jesse Pellot-Rosa is a strong guard with a sweet stroke on the 3-point shot and a big build that gives him the ability to penetrate. It's not uncommon to see him lead the team in rebounds.

Now we come to your worst nightmare, Eric Maynor. He's a sophomore point guard who can carry this team on his back. He's the reason we beat George Mason in the final. He creates shots out of nowhere, he'll break your ankles off the dribble, and is 5th in the nation in assists. If there's a shot for someone on the team, he finds it.

Now to our inside play. You say we're weak inside, and have a size disadvantage, but I beg to differ. Our inside starter, Wil Fameni, is mis-listed on our site as 6-7. Not that being 6-8 makes a difference, but he plays big and can hold down the paint. Then we have Calvin Roland, who is a senior and has really been stepping it up this year. Roland is 6-10 and plays huge. Inside play is something that I worried about in the beginning of the season, but since the last game we played we were 1 for 13 from 3-point range, having those big guys who can play to net us about 30 points between the two of them.

To finish it off, we have 2 great bench threats in TJ Gwynn and Jamal Shuler. Gwynn is a redshirt freshman and probably the most intense player on our team. He can play inside and outside and really puts some fuel into our teams fire. The real 6th man threat you should worry about it Jamal Shuler. Many times this year he's come off the bench and been our leading scorer. He can shoot 3's, he can pentrate, he can play defense as good as anyone, and he'll sacrifice himself for the ball or the shot or anything. I don't think I've seen 2 minutes go buy without this guy hitting the deck....but in a good way. he plays hard ball.

Some of you don't think that we press, or that we won't. You are sadly mistaken. We press ALL GAME. FULL COURT. Our coaches motto is "94 feet both ways". We are a fast paced team and have the ability to wear any team down. It doesn't matter to us if we're up by 20 or down by 20, we're in your face the whole game. So get ready for a lot of running.

I think that's enough for my first post. If anyone has any questions about VCU, feel free to ask. Hopefully I'll be seeing some of you in buffalo.

Regards

Susan
03-12-2007, 09:28 AM
Welcome to this board! Your report definitely has me a bit more nervous now...:)

As an aside, I really wish we weren't playing you, as I'd love to root for VCU through the tourney. When it's not Duke, I root for all Virginia teams next (and ACC teams) and I love the CAA...

nevertheless... GO DUKE!

mullslaw6383
03-12-2007, 10:09 AM
According to the schedule on ncaasports.com, our game is scheduled to start at 6:10 pm eastern time.

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/scoreboard/madness/20070315

although, according to yahoo sports schedule, we play at 7:10

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/scoreboard?d=2007-03-15&refresh=60


GO DUKE!

mus074
03-12-2007, 10:27 AM
Wounded animals are always the most dangerous!

That used to be his bread and butter. We've lost touch with it since the halcyon days of 91-92 and beyond. I relish K's regaining some hunger to go out and take something rather than trying to defend the Duke jersey from vandals.

Susan
03-12-2007, 10:37 AM
According to the schedule on ncaasports.com, our game is scheduled to start at 6:10 pm eastern time.

http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/scoreboard/madness/20070315

although, according to yahoo sports schedule, we play at 7:10

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/scoreboard?d=2007-03-15&refresh=60


GO DUKE!

Don't all first round games start at or around noon, 2:30, 7 p.m. and 9:30 except maybe one West coast game that is usually at 5 p.m. EST?

jimsumner
03-12-2007, 10:42 AM
"According to the schedule on ncaasports.com, our game is scheduled to start at 6:10 pm eastern time."

Maybe they forgot to spring forward.

Pretty sure it's 7:10

TwoDukeTattoos
03-12-2007, 10:54 AM
- I like our bracket. Should Duke advance, they wouldn't have to face a one-seed in order to advance to the Elite Eight. Two of the teams (Indiana And Gonz) we've already beaten this year. In Buffalo, we may have more fans than people think.
- Duke will have had a full week of rest and time to refocus. Hopefully, this will give them an extra bounce in their step.
- Duke was quite successful earlier in the year against non-conference teams. It will be refreshing to see Duke again play out-of-conference teams.
- Three positives to end the regular season, which together, may prove to be significant in the tourney: Henderson was having the best games of his season, Pocious (sp?) proved to be a scorer, McRoberts was a true center, a man possessed during the last 14 minutes of the State game.

DukeUsul
03-12-2007, 11:24 AM
If anyone is looking for season stats for Duke and VCU here they are.

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2006-07
http://www.vcuathletics.com/fls/14500/stats/mbasketball/0607stats/teamcume.htm#TEAM.CMB

A few things I've noted so far:

VCU shot 570 threes this season, making 40% (mostly Walker, Pellot-Rosa and Shuler)
Duke shot 509 threes, making 38% (mostly Scheyer, Paulus and Nelson)

VCU had 246 steals on the year
Duke had 237 steals on the year

VCU averaged 74.8 pts, defense allows 64.8 pts
Duke averaged 70.2 pts, defense allows 61.5 pts

VCU had 1100 rebs on the season, Fameni in the lead with 182 of those, Anderson with 153, but Pellot-Rosa and Maynor are not far behind at 148 and 144 respectively.
Duke had 1234 rebs on the season, McBob with 248, Nelson with 172 and McClure with 163.

VCU had 102 blocks this year, Fameni with 33, Anderson wtih 26.
Duke had 151 blocks this year, McBob with 77, McClure with 24.

Maynor looks like a stud with the ball. 208 asts vs. 69 TOs.
Paulus of course is 120 vs. 95.

Fameni averages 9.2 pts/game.
Josh averages 12.8 pts/game.

VCU Team FT: 72%
Duke Team FT: 69%

VCU Team FG: 46%
Duke Team FG: 47%

Some of the numbers look very similar, particularly on the outside, but it's also clear we have an inside advantage. Josh SHOULD be able to control the inside defensively and offensively. Plus, we're very good at rebounding at the 5, 4 and 3 positions - much better than VCU's 5,4,3 guys. Hopefully our height advantage will negate their guards' rebounding potential.

Of course, we racked up all these number's against Ken Pom's #3 ranked schedule vs. the 126 ranked schedule for VCU. So take it for what it's worth.

So the keys - Josh controlling the middle and forcing Maynor into some uncharacteristic turnovers.

koolaidRAM
03-12-2007, 11:44 AM
forcing Maynor into some uncharacteristic turnovers.

Not very likely.

JH22255
03-12-2007, 11:46 AM
I bet both coaches give Jeff a call....who do you think he'll help in the scouting department?
Obviously, he knows the kids at VCU very well, but also knows how K prepares.
What do you think?

DukeUsul
03-12-2007, 11:47 AM
Not very likely.

Agreed. That's why they'd be uncharacteristic.

Oh and welcome to the board! Nice to have some good fans from our opponents stop in. Is there a VCU board that's popular? I'd be curious to see what the sentiment is like.

Classof06
03-12-2007, 12:26 PM
Love this draw for a two reasons:

1) We can certainly lose this game if we're not focused. This is a good thing because this team responds well to wins. When you look at our conference schedule, all you pretty much see are streaks of wins or streaks of losses. Getting a W would give this team some confidence heading into what looks like a matchup against Pitt, and if history repeats, we could be looking at a little run.

2) All the onus is on McRoberts. If we are to beat VCU, we are going to beat this team in the paint and expose their lack of height. Though he'll play substantial minutes, I don't see Zoubek getting too much time, so McRoberts will have to do his thing. This, unfortunately, could also be viewed as a bad thing, as Josh doesn't respond to pressure too well.


Bottom line is that if we are focused, we should beat VCU, and can definitely give Pitt all it can handle. We'll see. All I know is that, this is why the tournament is the best time of the year.

jjasper0729
03-12-2007, 12:47 PM
why is florida the #1 #1 and not in the south?

florida is #1 and not #1 in the south because of the way the brackets paired up. The NCAA (as was stated at the top of the telecast I believe) wants to try to get the #1 #1 to play the #4 #1 if all four #1 seeds advance. In doing so, there would have to be a mild degree of shuffling, especially since they don't reorder the brackets once they get to the final four site. So if Florida is #1 and Kansas is #4 and you put Florida in the South, then Kansas has to be sent to the East and then you move NC to the midwest and OSU to the west potentially.

This would have been a bit more of a big deal before the NCAA went to the pod system, but now that they mix and match regions at the first round sites, it's less of an issue.

koolaidRAM
03-12-2007, 12:52 PM
Agreed. That's why they'd be uncharacteristic.

Oh and welcome to the board! Nice to have some good fans from our opponents stop in. Is there a VCU board that's popular? I'd be curious to see what the sentiment is like.


Yeah, we scouted and found this board. If you want to chat it up with the rams, head on over to www.caazone.com .

Highlander
03-12-2007, 12:54 PM
Just because the ACC/Big10 Challenge game isn't a home-and-home contract between the schools doesn't mean it should be ignored. I understand your point that we should go to opposing gyms more often, but the ACC/Big10 Challenge provides that for us every other year. If you know you're getting a good road game out of that matchup, contract or no, you take it into consideration when scheduling. I'm not saying that we shouldn't play on the road more (your overall point); I'm just saying that when we DO play on the road, you can't discount it just because it's not a true home-and-home series.

Secondly, I think this was just an offhand comment, but I don't remember us being 'shell shocked' last year when we started 7-0 on the road in conference, or the year before that when we started the ACC 2-0 on the road. So I also disagree with your point that we are routinely unprepared for our first ACC road game, as that seems to be a situation unique to this season.

On a side note, I do find it ironic that last year, the biggest win on Georgetown's resume was against Duke. This year, the exact opposite was true.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 01:03 PM
what if, and i'm seriously just throwing this out here, we played some zone and let him rebound and try to block shots? better defense against dribble penetration, maximize our height advantage, etc? Don't say it can't happen!

Well, I assume you'd be doing this hoping he can give us some inside offense, right? Trouble is, his offense hasn't been particularly good this year. We know about his traveling problems, and VCU's quickness would give him a lot of trouble, because he's still having trouble adjusting to the speed of the game. Plus, I don't believe in zone defense in genreral, and I certainly don't believe in desperate measures at this time of year. I want Duke to get back to playing man-to-man the way they did earlier this year. That's how they'll win in the Tourney. Any time spent working on a zone takes away from that.

CMS2478
03-12-2007, 01:14 PM
I like Z and thought he should have gotten more minutes during the year, but this team is quick. They run and press the whole game and I don't see him helping much against them. They are guard oriented team who shoots the three pretty well...........going zone will just give them more open looks since we have not practiced a zone. I wish he would have gotten more minutes over the course of the year to develop, but the NCAA tourney is not the time for a player to develop.

bluedev_92
03-12-2007, 01:40 PM
Just messing around with you. Thanks for posting the info. on VCU. I'm somewhat familiar with them from being exposed pretty heavily to the CAA. I think VCU is a very good team with much quickness and some very good guards. That being said, I believe Duke will win. That's not to say I think VCU doesn't have a shot - they do. However, using your analogy, VCU will have some nightmares to deal with themselves. Duke's defense can be outstanding on the perimeter. Three point shots typically do not come easily. Josh McRoberts is a unique talent, who, when he puts his mind to it, can positively influence the outcome of just about any game. Demarcus Nelson is one of the best defenders in the ACC & loves the open floor. Gerald Henderson is an emerging talent. John Sheyer & Greg Paulus are very good shooters. David McClure (6'6") is an all around smart player & Lance Thomas (6'8") typically brings much energy when he comes in. If the matchup is right, the 7'1" center can alter shots underneath & Pocius is starting to get some rythym to his game. Plus, it's not like Duke isn't used to facing good teams. I can't wait...:cool:

phaedrus
03-12-2007, 01:49 PM
if vcu is pressing i'd think we want mcroberts to play at least 39 minutes. as for zoubek, i haven't seen him be much help breaking a press.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 01:52 PM
florida is #1 and not #1 in the south because of the way the brackets paired up. The NCAA (as was stated at the top of the telecast I believe) wants to try to get the #1 #1 to play the #4 #1 if all four #1 seeds advance. In doing so, there would have to be a mild degree of shuffling, especially since they don't reorder the brackets once they get to the final four site. So if Florida is #1 and Kansas is #4 and you put Florida in the South, then Kansas has to be sent to the East and then you move NC to the midwest and OSU to the west potentially.

This would have been a bit more of a big deal before the NCAA went to the pod system, but now that they mix and match regions at the first round sites, it's less of an issue.

This is not correct. A few years ago, the NCAA changed things so the Final Four pairings wouldn't be decided until after the brackets are set. In other words, they'd place the 4 #1 seeds in regions, then put the #1 overall's region against the #4 overall's region.

BluBones
03-12-2007, 03:37 PM
Well, I assume you'd be doing this hoping he can give us some inside offense, right? Trouble is, his offense hasn't been particularly good this year. We know about his traveling problems, and VCU's quickness would give him a lot of trouble, because he's still having trouble adjusting to the speed of the game. Plus, I don't believe in zone defense in genreral, and I certainly don't believe in desperate measures at this time of year. I want Duke to get back to playing man-to-man the way they did earlier this year. That's how they'll win in the Tourney. Any time spent working on a zone takes away from that.

Hear, hear. Why on earth would we abandon our man defense, which a few weeks ago was one of the best in the country, for a defense the team hasn't played, probably hasn't practiced and that K hates?

FewFAC
03-12-2007, 03:54 PM
I was fully aware that we played Air Force and Marquette on a neutral floor this year when I was complaining about the schedule earlier.


I do not disagree with your contentions re: scheduling, an area of conversation that has grown increasingly insular over the past two decades. Some of that is the result of few really consistent programs over that stretch who are out of conference, and some are very real philosophical differences regarding scheduling which work both ways.

I noticed you mentioned Arizona in a previous suggestion, and while others can retell the story better than I can, I think it is safe to say that during the K-Olsen eras the likelihood of rekindling that matchup are nonexistent.

FewFAC
03-12-2007, 03:57 PM
Hello All. I am a fan from VCU, and just wanted to come over and check out your boards.

We are very excited that we have a chance to play Duke in the first round. We know how strong you are, but I think you will agree with me that this year you have been more beatable than in past years.

With that said, I'll give you a little more info on VCU.

For starters, you are all correct in saying that VCU is a guard oriented team. We have 2 senior guards in BA Walker and Jesse Pellot-Rosa. BA walker is the schools all-time leader in 3-point shooting, and 10th all time scoring. Jesse Pellot-Rosa is a strong guard with a sweet stroke on the 3-point shot and a big build that gives him the ability to penetrate. It's not uncommon to see him lead the team in rebounds.

Now we come to your worst nightmare, Eric Maynor. He's a sophomore point guard who can carry this team on his back. He's the reason we beat George Mason in the final. He creates shots out of nowhere, he'll break your ankles off the dribble, and is 5th in the nation in assists. If there's a shot for someone on the team, he finds it.

Now to our inside play. You say we're weak inside, and have a size disadvantage, but I beg to differ. Our inside starter, Wil Fameni, is mis-listed on our site as 6-7. Not that being 6-8 makes a difference, but he plays big and can hold down the paint. Then we have Calvin Roland, who is a senior and has really been stepping it up this year. Roland is 6-10 and plays huge. Inside play is something that I worried about in the beginning of the season, but since the last game we played we were 1 for 13 from 3-point range, having those big guys who can play to net us about 30 points between the two of them.

To finish it off, we have 2 great bench threats in TJ Gwynn and Jamal Shuler. Gwynn is a redshirt freshman and probably the most intense player on our team. He can play inside and outside and really puts some fuel into our teams fire. The real 6th man threat you should worry about it Jamal Shuler. Many times this year he's come off the bench and been our leading scorer. He can shoot 3's, he can pentrate, he can play defense as good as anyone, and he'll sacrifice himself for the ball or the shot or anything. I don't think I've seen 2 minutes go buy without this guy hitting the deck....but in a good way. he plays hard ball.

Some of you don't think that we press, or that we won't. You are sadly mistaken. We press ALL GAME. FULL COURT. Our coaches motto is "94 feet both ways". We are a fast paced team and have the ability to wear any team down. It doesn't matter to us if we're up by 20 or down by 20, we're in your face the whole game. So get ready for a lot of running.

I think that's enough for my first post. If anyone has any questions about VCU, feel free to ask. Hopefully I'll be seeing some of you in buffalo.

Regards


Weclome koolaidRAM and thanks for the great notes on VCU. I strongly fear that Duke will overlook the Rams' talents, and I know the Rams' will play the game of their lives.

Best of luck to you!

duke03
03-12-2007, 04:03 PM
There is no way that Zoubek does this without averaging one foul every two minutes.


what if, and i'm seriously just throwing this out here, we played some zone and let him rebound and try to block shots? better defense against dribble penetration, maximize our height advantage, etc? Don't say it can't happen!

Madrasdukie
03-12-2007, 04:07 PM
Goduke.com lists the Thursday game against VCU to be telecast by CBS at 7:00pm

Duke15304
03-12-2007, 04:14 PM
on cbssportsline but maybe i read it wrong

hurleyfor3
03-12-2007, 04:26 PM
There's no way it's 6.10pm Eastern if the game is also in the Eastern time zone (Buffalo). The afternoon sessions in the Eastern time zones start at noonish, then you need the break between sessions. Gotta be 7-oh-something at the earliest.

Lavabe
03-12-2007, 04:55 PM
The podcast of the Duke Basketball Report w/Coach K states the Duke/VCU game is 710PM in Buffalo.

Md vs. Davidson is at 1220PM Thursday in Buffalo
Cheers,
Lavabe

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 05:43 PM
There's no way it's 6.10pm Eastern if the game is also in the Eastern time zone (Buffalo). The afternoon sessions in the Eastern time zones start at noonish, then you need the break between sessions. Gotta be 7-oh-something at the earliest.


that's not correct. There is always a swing game. One game that bridges the gap between the 3 and 4 game late-afternoon sessions and similar evening sessions.

But in any case, it looks like this game is at 7:10 p.m., ncaa.com has it at that time (http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/scoreboard/madness/20070315). What's odd is it changed. It used to have us playing at 6:10.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 05:46 PM
There is no way that Zoubek does this without averaging one foul every two minutes.

How would we average 1 foul every two minutes if he were on the backline of a 2-3 or 3-2 zone? That's a nice trick. It's not like he'd actually have to step out and guard somebody.

I'm just trying to figure out how we might maximize our height advantage. That's all. It's just an idea and not presented as gospel.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 05:51 PM
I noticed you mentioned Arizona in a previous suggestion, and while others can retell the story better than I can, I think it is safe to say that during the K-Olsen eras the likelihood of rekindling that matchup are nonexistent.

Yeah, apparently that's the case at this point. That's most unfortunate. I know jim calhoun won't be coming to CIS any time soon either. There are always possibilities, though. I wonder if Oregon is willing? Probably not, they've lost two big in-state recruits to us recently. Still, there has to be somebody. I mean, honestly, if the program has managed to alienate every other upper-tier program in the country then we've got bigger problems than scheduling.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 05:54 PM
Hear, hear. Why on earth would we abandon our man defense, which a few weeks ago was one of the best in the country, for a defense the team hasn't played, probably hasn't practiced and that K hates?

this team has played zone, whether K hates it or not.

And in case you hadn't noticed, our defense lately (let's see, how do I put this in a nice DBR-friendly way that won't get me banned) has not been exemplary in recent contests.

hurleyfor3
03-12-2007, 05:57 PM
that's not correct. There is always a swing game. One game that bridges the gap between the 3 and 4 game late-afternoon sessions and similar evening sessions.


Sure, but it's never in the Eastern time zone. The swing game exists because it's the second game of the day session somewhere like Boise or Salt Lake or (this year) Spokane.

In order for a game played in the Eastern time zone to begin at 6pm, the first game of the day would have to begin at 11am local (Eastern) time, and in all the years I have followed NCAA Tournaments that has never happened.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 05:58 PM
Well, I assume you'd be doing this hoping he can give us some inside offense, right? Trouble is, his offense hasn't been particularly good this year. We know about his traveling problems, and VCU's quickness would give him a lot of trouble, because he's still having trouble adjusting to the speed of the game. Plus, I don't believe in zone defense in genreral, and I certainly don't believe in desperate measures at this time of year. I want Duke to get back to playing man-to-man the way they did earlier this year. That's how they'll win in the Tourney. Any time spent working on a zone takes away from that.


Not talking about his post offense, just his rebounding and some size in the lane on d, for after they break down our guards with dribble penetration.

It may not be something we need to worry about mcclure and nelson are pretty good on the boards going up against guys larger than them. They should be just fine against vcu's front line. It seems to me, however, that if these guys are quick and love to press and play up-tempo, it would be a good idea to grind it out, play half-court, crash the boards, cut down our turnovers and pack the lane against their dribble drives on defense. My thinking was that Z could help just a bit in that regard. Not with his low-post offense.

throatybeard
03-12-2007, 06:13 PM
Hear, hear. Why on earth would we abandon our man defense, which a few weeks ago was one of the best in the country, for a defense the team hasn't played, probably hasn't practiced and that K hates?

I think we should try the option offense. What's to lose? Greg Paulus used to be a QB.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Just because the ACC/Big10 Challenge game isn't a home-and-home contract between the schools doesn't mean it should be ignored. I understand your point that we should go to opposing gyms more often, but the ACC/Big10 Challenge provides that for us every other year. If you know you're getting a good road game out of that matchup, contract or no, you take it into consideration when scheduling. I'm not saying that we shouldn't play on the road more (your overall point); I'm just saying that when we DO play on the road, you can't discount it just because it's not a true home-and-home series.

Secondly, I think this was just an offhand comment, but I don't remember us being 'shell shocked' last year when we started 7-0 on the road in conference, or the year before that when we started the ACC 2-0 on the road. So I also disagree with your point that we are routinely unprepared for our first ACC road game, as that seems to be a situation unique to this season.

On a side note, I do find it ironic that last year, the biggest win on Georgetown's resume was against Duke. This year, the exact opposite was true.



First, the ACC/Big Ten challenge does not guarantee us a true road game. We have played some of our road games in that series on the other team's home floors. We have also played many of those games on neutral floors. I attened our 2001 game against Iowa, which was played at the United Center in Chicago. We also played Illinois in Chicago one year. The other two road games we have played were, in fact, in the opponent's gym.

Second, even if they all were in the opponent's gym, that's just one game. And one that we were forced to play. That game by itself isn't enough. I do agree that you must take it into account when scheduling and when evaluating the schedule.

Now about being shell-shocked. Last year's team was loaded with seniors, including its two best players. Of course they knew what the road was like in the ACC. This year's team in extremely young, and that's when you really need to get them some experience. When JJ and Shelden were freshmen in 2002-03, they played a preseason schedule with no true road games on it. They ventured into an opponent's gym for the first time against Clemson on January 5 and won easily. On January 18 -- Just six weeks before the end of the season, mind you, they visited Maryland for their first real road test of the season -- with predictable results. Maryland won 87-72 and the team dropped its next 3 road games as well, by an average of more than 10 points in game. Meanwhile, that same team won every single home game it played that season.

Home and the real road can be night and day for teams but I think the likelihood of that happening drops considerably if you get out there and let the kids see what it's like early on.

I'm sorry, I know I can go on about this. It's just something I feel passionately about. I'm extremely concerned about how our current scheduling philosophy is affecting the teams and the program.

hurleyfor3
03-12-2007, 06:17 PM
I think we should try the option offense. What's to lose? Greg Paulus used to be a QB.

As long as one of the options is "actually score without almost turning the ball over two or three times," I'm all for it.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 06:22 PM
Now about being shell-shocked. Last year's team was loaded with seniors, including its two best players. Of course they knew what the road was like in the ACC. This year's team in extremely young, and that's when you really need to get them some experience.

Except there was no discernable difference between Duke at home and on the road this year. Duke lost its first ACC home game to VT. Duke then went to GT and lost there too. They were hardly shell-shocked -- wasn't the game tied with a few minutes left? Duke then went on the road and kicked the crap out of Miami. Duke destroyed NCSU in Raleigh. Duke played much better at Clemson than at home vs. Clemson. Did with the two B.C. games. Again, this team was 4-4 in conference both home and away. The evidence doesn't support the argment that the team was any less prepared to play on the road than it was to play at home.

devildownunder
03-12-2007, 06:31 PM
Except there was no discernable difference between Duke at home and on the road this year. Duke lost its first ACC home game to VT. Duke then went to GT and lost there too. They were hardly shell-shocked -- wasn't the game tied with a few minutes left? Duke then went on the road and kicked the crap out of Miami. Duke destroyed NCSU in Raleigh. Duke played much better at Clemson than at home vs. Clemson. Did with the two B.C. games. Again, this team was 4-4 in conference both home and away. The evidence doesn't support the argment that the team was any less prepared to play on the road than it was to play at home.


I don't know about you Jumbo, but I see a big difference between crumbling down the stretch against a somewhat young Ga Tech team that barely qualified for the NCAAs and losing in overtime to an extremely seasoned Va. Tech team.

I do agree, however, that this team adjusted to life on the road very quickly. This has not always been the case, especially when we have been very young (see my earlier post with info about the 2002-03 team).

Now, imagine they got that first real roady out of the way a bit sooner. Like, say, the week before that first conference game. We might actually have one more conference victory. And what might that have done for our ACC seeding? And, ultimately, our NCAA seeding? The point is that even in a situation like this, where the guys seemed to adjust remarkably quickly to the road, they did, imo, have that initial stumble. I say, get it out of the way against a good non-conference opponent. And get your team's development started early.

dukemsu
03-12-2007, 09:54 PM
Ah, watching the nonsense Digger/Gottlieb/Hubert/Rece bit right now, and per usual, the old Duke doesn't have good athletes bit is raised again as a reason Duke's in trouble in the first round. Just seems like we hear that every year. I know that's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere on the board, so I'll refrain.

Overall, I like the draw through 2 rounds. VCU will be a true test of how far Greg has come, and Scheyer MUST awaken from his funk-especially as a secondary ballhandler. Beat the press, you beat VCU. Shots will be open if we can break the initial backcourt pressure. If we don't break the pressure-we'll be down by 8-10 early. I think we're in good shape-give K a week to beat pressure full court, and we should be able to handle it.

Round 2 if we get there? That game would depend largely on how it's officiated-as many of our forays with Big East foes in the tourney have historically. We all know Pitt is physical. But as good as Gray is, Josh could really give him some problems, particularly if Pitt can be goaded into playing Josh man to man. Gray wasn't the most mobile guy to start with and is less so now. They are strong at all positions-physically strong. But I like Duke's chances here as well. Our draw could have been a lot worse.

Everyone keeps asking if this team can turn it up for the tournament. Thankfully, we're only 72 hours or so from finding out.

LGD.

dukemsu

dukie8
03-12-2007, 10:47 PM
This is not correct. A few years ago, the NCAA changed things so the Final Four pairings wouldn't be decided until after the brackets are set. In other words, they'd place the 4 #1 seeds in regions, then put the #1 overall's region against the #4 overall's region.

so basically nobody knows why florida, the #1 #1 got sent to the midwest? the first 2 rounds don't really matter that much but if i were florida, i would much rather be playing in san antonio (i won't even get into how that is deemed "the south) than st louis against wisconsin (the #2).

npdevil27
03-12-2007, 10:50 PM
so basically nobody knows why florida, the #1 #1 got sent to the midwest? the first 2 rounds don't really matter that much but if i were florida, i would much rather be playing in san antonio (i won't even get into how that is deemed "the south) than st louis against wisconsin (the #2).

Well, for one, St. Louis is closer to Gainesville than San Antonio. I'm sure that played into the decision.

dukie8
03-12-2007, 11:15 PM
Except there was no discernable difference between Duke at home and on the road this year. Duke lost its first ACC home game to VT. Duke then went to GT and lost there too. They were hardly shell-shocked -- wasn't the game tied with a few minutes left? Duke then went on the road and kicked the crap out of Miami. Duke destroyed NCSU in Raleigh. Duke played much better at Clemson than at home vs. Clemson. Did with the two B.C. games. Again, this team was 4-4 in conference both home and away. The evidence doesn't support the argment that the team was any less prepared to play on the road than it was to play at home.

if you want to just look at duke's record home vs away, then, sure there was no difference between home and away. however, if you look a little closer, duke played A LOT better at home (this is not surprising as most teams do as well). before even looking at who we played where, our 3 worst losses this year all were on the road in the acc -- ga tech by 11, maryland by 12 and unc by 14 (marquette was by 11 too). that stat in and of itself should tell you that we don't play as well on the road. however, there is more. let's compare how we did home vs away against the 5 teams we had home and away:

unc -- home lost by 6 and road lost by 12 (better at home)
maryland -- home lost by 8 and road lost by 12 (better at home)
ga tech -- home won by 9 and road lost by 11 (better at home)
bc -- home won by 14 and road won by 8 (better at home)
clemson -- home won by 2 and road won by 5 (better on the road)

so we played better against 4 of the 5 teams we played home and away and our 3 worst defeats in the acc were all on the road. there is no question that we played better at home.

getting back to the original point, when duke put its schedule together last summer, it knew quite clearly that gtown was going to be at home, that gonzaga in new york would be a 95% home game, that both st johns and temple were going to be terrible and that kent st and george mason were going to be weak due to graduation. we got lucky (or unlucky depending on how you view it) that air force and marquette were better than predicted in the off season. in any event, i really don't see how cruising through mid majors at home and several teams expected to be on the fringe of the top 25 on neutral courts is going to help prepare a team for what turned out to be a brutal conference schedule.

as the previous posted noted, in the late 80s and early 90s, we always would play top 10 caliber teams on the road (and at home) in preparation for the ncaas and that seemed to be a very successful formula (eg, ucla, arizona, michigan or lsu). we need to junk st johns and temple, even if it means buying out of those contracts, because they have become worse than useless since playing them means that we are not playing someone better.

Jumbo
03-12-2007, 11:31 PM
-Just a few minor quibbles, Dukie8. I don't think we got lucky that Air Force and Marquette were good. If anything, both teams ended up underachieving. I thought Marquette was definitely a top-20 team in the preseason. I thought Air Force was borderline top-25. That was a quality tournament. And, there's nothing wrong with neutral-court games.

-The final scores of the BC and Clemson games don't fully explain the way Duke dominated both teams on the road.

-Again, in building a non-conference series, it's tough to figure out who will be good, year-in and year-out. Plus, teams like UCLA won't play Duke anymore because Duke kept taking recruits from California.

-That said, I'd dump Temple too, but keep St. John's. It's always good to have a home-and-home with an NYC team, especially one that will rise again. Playing in The Garden every year is great for the kids. St. John's adds something to Duke's schedule.

-Would I like one more regular, home-and-home series with a top team? Yeah. Do I think that this team needed a tough, non-conference road game in addition to all the other good teams it played at home or on neutral fields? No.

throatybeard
03-12-2007, 11:38 PM
All this complaining about our schedule had me checking to see if the DST-patch on Windows had malfunctioned and turned my computer back to October.

BigBallerDuke
03-12-2007, 11:45 PM
You guys seen this? pretty funny. I'm VooDooing the other teams for the whole tournament.

http://www.hookyforhoops.com/?hcID=1138&hcRecID=108817&c_src=emailVoodoo

dukie8
03-12-2007, 11:48 PM
-Just a few minor quibbles, Dukie8. I don't think we got lucky that Air Force and Marquette were good. If anything, both teams ended up underachieving. I thought Marquette was definitely a top-20 team in the preseason. I thought Air Force was borderline top-25. That was a quality tournament. And, there's nothing wrong with neutral-court games.

-The final scores of the BC and Clemson games don't fully explain the way Duke dominated both teams on the road.

-Again, in building a non-conference series, it's tough to figure out who will be good, year-in and year-out. Plus, teams like UCLA won't play Duke anymore because Duke kept taking recruits from California.

-That said, I'd dump Temple too, but keep St. John's. It's always good to have a home-and-home with an NYC team, especially one that will rise again. Playing in The Garden every year is great for the kids. St. John's adds something to Duke's schedule.

-Would I like one more regular, home-and-home series with a top team? Yeah. Do I think that this team needed a tough, non-conference road game in addition to all the other good teams it played at home or on neutral fields? No.

i agree that there is nothing wrong with neutral games -- particularly when ncaa games basically are neutral games, often with a very corporate and indifferent atmosphere. here are the 1st polls:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankingsindex?pollId=null&weekNumber=1&seasonYear=2007

based on that, marquette was expected to be quite good but air force was nowhere to be found. just add ONE big time oos road game next year and everyone will shut up. gtown could be it but i have a feeling their big guns will be long gone (particularly if they make a deep run).