Are they really #1 quality?

[Bluedawg]

How can UNC hold a #1 ranking when they don't play any ranked teams? Shouldn't the quality of schedule matter?

[dukie8]

Aside from the fact that unc has played a ranked team (ahem, byu), since when does not playing a ranked team preclude a team from being ranked #1 in mid december?

[Bluedawg]

isn't this the kind of completely ill-informed post that is supposed to be avoided on here? aside from the fact that unc has played a ranked team (ahem, byu), since when does not playing a ranked team preclude a team from being ranked #1 in mid december?

That "my friend" is my question...and was BYU ranked when they played them......they were not in the top 25 until week 3

So are you saying that you can play whoever you want and still hold a #1 ranking? strength of schedule means nothing

******the edit******

OK, I'll amend it...BYU is ranked 21st...does it matter where they are ranked or should a #1 team play at least one top 15 or 10 team? How do you earn a #1 ranking?

[Troublemaker]

You get a #1 ranking by starting out high in the polls and then not losing for awhile (outlasting others who receive losses). UNC might "deserve" a #1 ranking, they might not. Does it really matter? I honestly have no idea where Duke is ranked right now and, in general, I haven't paid attention to rankings in years.

[Classof06]

BYU was not ranked when UNC played them. Despite what UNC fans believe and say, the 'holes haven't really played any good teams and at this point probably don't deserve to be #1. But this is why the rankings aren't that important, especially in December.

[sandinmyshoes]

I think UNC has played three teams that have been ranked at some point, BYU, Davidson and Kentucky.

At this point in the season #1 is usually based largely on pre-season expectations. I guess Texas has the best "this season resume" out of the top teams. So they are probably more deserving based on current schedule.

But who is the best team? I don't know. It's kind of muddled in the top seven or so. UNC probably has the weakest schedule in terms of the strength of the teams they have played out of all the top five or six teams. But I have to give them credit for playing a very long string of road games even if two of the teams (UK &OSU) that should have provided the toughest test are having disappointing seasons.

So I think the notion of who deserves it most is a matter of splitting hairs at this point.

[weezie]

If anybody is watching the Gtown-Memphis game, holy smokes, Memphis is the real deal. The 'holes should be paying close attention to this one.

[DBFAN]

The problem that exists is that we do not want CBB to turn into CFB. Unfortunately this already happened this year when they bumped Texas up so many spots because they beat two highly ranked opponents, while other teams did not. So why does this not apply to UNC, if Memphis beats the crap out of G-Town, or Vice versa, should they take UNC's place. Although I do not think that UNC deserves the number 1 ranking, I really do not want basketball to turn into a BCS ordeal. I was really pissed when that Texas thing happened, I am not sure if anyone really noticed. When you do that you open up so many scenarios, I mean during the season anyone could lose their position, if someone deems that their schedule is not as difficult that week as someone else. I am sorry to rant but the whole ranking thing right now really stinks, and unfortunately this stuff does matter, because you are trying to get the highest seed you can for the tourney.

[ugadevil]

If anybody is watching the Gtown-Memphis game, holy smokes, Memphis is the real deal. The 'holes should be paying close attention to this one.'

If Duke and G'Town play any time this season and it comes down to free throw shooting...that game will be truly painful to watch.

[colchar]

How can UNC hold a #1 ranking when they don't play any ranked teams? Shouldn't the quality of schedule matter?

Their #1 ranking doesn't matter that much as they will certainly be brought back down to earth when ACC play gets going. After the first run through the conference UNC will drop down a bit.

[sandinmyshoes]

Memphis with a statement win over Georgetown. I wouldn't be surprised to see them edge ahead of UNC in the polls after that win, even though UNC destroyed a fairly decent UCSB team.

[sandinmyshoes]

Their #1 ranking doesn't matter that much as they will certainly be brought back down to earth when ACC play gets going. After the first run through the conference UNC will drop down a bit.

Out of the top five or six, Memphis looks to have the weakest conference slate? Othewise all the teams will take some lumpsin conference and there should be much leapfrogging in the rankings.

[Troublemaker]

The problem that exists is that we do not want CBB to turn into CFB........I really do not want basketball to turn into a BCS ordeal.

How can CBB turn into CFB? They have completely different systems. CBB has a playoff. CFB doesn't.


I was really pissed when that Texas thing happened,

Really??? Why?


unfortunately this stuff does matter, because you are trying to get the highest seed you can for the tourney.

The selection committee who selects and seeds teams pays no attention to the media polls.

[Ben63]

Keep in mind the number one ranked team isn't always the best team. Unfortunatley, to lose the #1 spot, you have to do just that, lose.

To contradict everything I just said,there is a realistic chance #2 Memphis jumps them after beating #4 GTown. Just goes to show the reality that rankings are just that, rankings. Not nessicarly best teams in that order. Sounds like something college football has, whats that thing called again?? Oh yea, the Bull Crap System.

[Huh?]

We just need that #1 seed in the tourny.

[dw0827]

I don't think the rankings right now are worth much.

Maybe later in the year when teams are jockeying for tournament seedings, rankings may influence how highly a team is seeded. (And maybe not . . . I often wonder what really goes on in that room.)

But that's about the only time they're really worth anything, IMO.

[gotham devil]

Memphis would smack around guys like Ellington and Hansbrough.

[Devilsfan]

With a number one seed in the East they would have all "home" games until the final four. Then they would only need two road wins. Pretty obtainable task ino. They would never have to leave North Carolina until the final four.

[mepanchin]

I think the top 10 or 12 teams will all be competing for the championship. This is a very even year without any "great" teams. All top teams have weaknesses.

[lavell12]

How is this team considered the best in the nation. They have one of the weakest schedules for a top ranked team I have ever seen. Nevada, Nicholes State, and etc. The two best teams they have played are probably Davidson and Ohio State who are both non-ranked teams.
They struggled against BYU and some other half way decent teams. I think Memphis is far more deserving of the ranking they beat George Town. Even though Duke has lost they have proven to be a better team then UNC so far b/c the fact that Duke beat Marquette and Illinois while destroying Wisconsin who just beat Texas in Austin.

I just wish the UNC fans who tells us how they are number one realized that their team has yet to prove a damn thing.

[NYC Duke Fan]

I think the top 10 or 12 teams will all be competing for the championship. This is a very even year without any "great" teams. All top teams have weaknesses.

I agree that there are really no great teams this year, but if you put Duke in your top 10 or 12 do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that in March Duke can win 6 straight games....5 of them against very good teams? From what I have seen so far , Duke's deficiencies,( Poor foul shooting, and the lack of an interior presence), can prevent them from winning a championship. That is not to say that it can't happen, and I will be rooting hard for them, but I am just being realistic.

[Bob Green]

I agree that there are really no great teams this year, but if you put Duke in your top 10 or 12 do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that in March Duke can win 6 straight games....5 of them against very good teams? From what I have seen so far , Duke's deficiencies,( Poor foul shooting, and the lack of an interior presence), can prevent them from winning a championship. That is not to say that it can't happen, and I will be rooting hard for them, but I am just being realistic.

In order for Duke to win six straight games and win the Championship, either Brian Zoubek or Lance Thomas (or the combination of the two) is going to have to step it up and become a productive interior player. The season is young and the team has displayed many positive traits so I am optimistic they can continue to improve. The Duke team that takes the court in March will be much better than the Duke team that took the court in December. Of course, the same is true for all the other teams barring the loss of a key player to injury.

[Bluedawg]

I agree that there are really no great teams this year, but if you put Duke in your top 10 or 12 do you honestly believe in your heart of hearts that in March Duke can win 6 straight games....5 of them against very good teams? From what I have seen so far , Duke's deficiencies,( Poor foul shooting, and the lack of an interior presence), can prevent them from winning a championship. That is not to say that it can't happen, and I will be rooting hard for them, but I am just being realistic.

Ken Pomeroy (http://www.kenpom.com/sked.php?team=Duke&t=p) has an interesting tke on it. he lists Dukes Projected 2008record as bing 27-3 over all and 14-2 conference

[sandinmyshoes]

I get confused by the differences between Pomeroy's and Sagarin's ratings. UNC and Duke, for instance, seem to swap places in both the rankings and in strength of schedule rankings depending which of the two systems you use.

I guess this is why we don't actually use computers to determine the season. :confused:

[duketaylor]

Pomeroy predicts Duke to win @ chapel hell and as favorites to win every remaining game.

Also, Sagaring has strength-o-schedule so far for unc (112) stronger than Duke's (136).
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0708.htm
GO DUKE!!! GTHC, GTH!!!

[oli-p]

In order for Duke to win six straight games and win the Championship, either Brian Zoubek or Lance Thomas (or the combination of the two) is going to have to step it up and become a productive interior player.

Ha, ha, ha. Those two are going to become productive enough for Duke to win the NCAA tournament? The comments on this site about Zoubek's progress are absolutely hilarious. He isn't even 5 fouls due to being such an offensive and defensive liability. And Thomas is adequate at best. Come on. Duke is improved from last year, but without any personel of significant strenght in the post, the post defense and rebounding will contiue to be suspect.

[hondoheel]

It's all about matchups. Duke could get drilled by UNC 3 times but then not face UNC, Memphis or any other team with a much stronger frontcourt in the whole NCAA tourney, depending on seedings and upsets.

[Bob Green]

In order for Duke to win six straight games and win the Championship, either Brian Zoubek or Lance Thomas (or the combination of the two) is going to have to step it up and become a productive interior player.


Ha, ha, ha. Those two are going to become productive enough for Duke to win the NCAA tournament? The comments on this site about Zoubek's progress are absolutely hilarious. He isn't even 5 fouls due to being such an offensive and defensive liability. And Thomas is adequate at best. Come on. Duke is improved from last year, but without any personel of significant strenght in the post, the post defense and rebounding will contiue to be suspect.

I believe you are off the mark in regard to Zoubek. He is not an offensive or defensive liability. He is a player who is still developing. I expect Zoubek to be more productive during the next 11 games than he was during the first 11 games. The summer broken foot/surgery set him back. The box scores in January will prove me right or wrong.

His numbers through the first 11 games: 11.8 mpg, 4.3 ppg, & 3.7 rpg. It is also noteworthy that he is shooting 60.6% from the field. His FT% is horrible at 43.8% and is the first area he needs to improve.

[sandinmyshoes]

We tumbled all the way down to 17 in the kenpom rankings, despite not playing a game since the last ranking? And our SOS is now 95 compared to UNC's 49?
:confused:

[oli-p]

I believe you are off the mark in regard to Zoubek. He is not an offensive or defensive liability. He is a player who is still developing. I expect Zoubek to be more productive during the next 11 games than he was during the first 11 games. The summer broken foot/surgery set him back. The box scores in January will prove me right or wrong.

His numbers through the first 11 games: 11.8 mpg, 4.3 ppg, & 3.7 rpg. It is also noteworthy that he is shooting 60.6% from the field. His FT% is horrible at 43.8% and is the first area he needs to improve.

Come on, Bob. Those stats are purely driven by NCCU - 6 pts. 9 boards, Princeton - 9 pts. 6 rbs, Michigan - 7 pts. 5 rbs, and Albany - 13 pts. and 7 rbs. The games are not going to get easier. I think we are going to see his time dwindle. I like the kid, I wish him well - my brother-in-law works with his mom, but as a Carolina fan, he doesn't concern me at all.

[Bob Green]

Come on, Bob. Those stats are purely driven by NCCU - 6 pts. 9 boards, Princeton - 9 pts. 6 rbs, Michigan - 7 pts. 5 rbs, and Albany - 13 pts. and 7 rbs. The games are not going to get easier. I think we are going to see his time dwindle. I like the kid, I wish him well - my brother-in-law works with his mom, but as a Carolina fan, he doesn't concern me at all.

As I said in my earlier post, the January box scores will prove me right or wrong so let's revisit this conversation at the beginning of February. I say Zoubek's productivity will improve and you say his minutes will dwindle.

[minnydukeman]

We tumbled all the way down to 17 in the kenpom rankings, despite not playing a game since the last ranking? And our SOS is now 95 compared to UNC's 49?
:confused:

I think you're looking at the RPI rankings on Pomeroy's site, which are based on the generic formula that weights your own record for 50%, your opponents' record for 25%, and your opponents' opponents' record for 25%. So if the teams we have played have lost some games between Dec. 20 and now, our SOS and RPI go down.

But if you look at the Pomeroy ratings, which he bases on offensive and defensive efficiency and the efficiencies of your opponents, we are still #2. Note that we've beaten #3 and #4 already, and that we've played against some very strong defenses.

[dukemomLA]

UNC has a tough team -- no doubt about that. But surely Memphis and UCLA should be ranked higher than UNC. Let's cream them (UNC) -- always. Go to Hell, Carolina, Go to Hell. And personally, I Don't care a Rat's A... (remember I'm the year of the rat) about our ranking this early in the season. I just want to see more DukeBB. Okay/allright/already , I get the 'lay-off' thing, but it's been a loooong break and can't wait to the Cornell game tomorrow/today. Sigh.

P.S. I keep posting nonsense to try to move up to a new category on DBR.