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dukediv2013
12-18-2007, 11:31 AM
If you read the article on the Main page called, "Alleva Ripped," you will know why I titled this thread. Barry Saunders is the most biased, uniformed sports writer in North Carolina. He tore Duke and Alleva a new one because we didn't hire a minority coach. But last year, when kerolina hired Butch Davis he wrote this article: http://www.newsobserver.com/758/story/515430.html.

Don't get me wrong, I think that anyone qualified should be interviewed and given a fair chance for the job, no matter what race, gender, or spiritual beliefs. UNC hired Butch Davis who is 1/16th Cherokee Indian. I am 1/16th Indian (honestly), but I don't know that qualifies me as a minority. Butch Davis was the right fit for Carolina's job and so he was hired over minority coaches, but Saunders didn't say anything about that. Sidney Lowe was a great hire for NC State. He was the right fit for their program.

Duke interviewed minority coaches throughout this process, but who was the most qualified person for the position? David Cutcliffe embodies all that Joe Alleva was looking for in his initial press conference about the vacant position as Head Football Coach. He is an offensive mind with Division 1 head coaching experience. He led his only head coaching stint to 5 winning seasons and 5 bowl games during his 6 years. HE FITS DUKE'S PROGRAM.

Needless to say, I will write a Letter to the Editor about this article because Saunders is ridiculous. He is a kerolina homer and everyone in Raleigh knows it.

freedevil
12-18-2007, 11:37 AM
Don't forget that N.C. State hire. Tom O'Brien must've been a spineless hire as well.

I guess the Roy Williams hire, or the Matt Doherty hire, were spineless too.

Uncle Drew
12-18-2007, 11:51 AM
The link to the Barry Saunders article calling Alleva "spineless", really rubbed me raw. Many of us here aren't fans of Mr. Alleva for one reason or another. But I have to commend him and Duke for shelling our some decent money for once and keeping the whole thing under wraps for the most part until the offer had been accepted.
Since when does affirmative action apply to college sports?
I don't know who the best candidate for the job is / was, but I wish Mr. Broadway all the success in the world and from everything I read he seems like a class act. Why did Saunder not question UNC's hire of a guy named Davis? All three schools in the triangle have hired head football coaches in the last year (and God knows how many assistant coaches) why is the Duke hire scandalous but perfectly fine for UNC and NCSU?

throatybeard
12-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Barry Saunders is a sports writer? I thought he wrote for the Metro section of the N&O.

OldPhiKap
12-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Don't forget that N.C. State hire. Tom O'Brien must've been a spineless hire as well.

I guess the Roy Williams hire, or the Matt Doherty hire, were spineless too.

Roy Williams is half hound dog. That took guts.

greybeard
12-18-2007, 12:08 PM
Disclaimer: I wouldn't know Alleva from a chipmunk, and, while I was a player on the LAX board, did not get much of the nuanced discussion of Duke personalities and who did what and why, etc.

My recollection, however, is that Alleva was thought by many to have pandered to the black professors at Duke who comprised much of the 88, and whose radical agendas were anti-athlete. Seems to me that that might have something to do with why he was ripped in this instance. Or not.

Uncle Drew
12-18-2007, 12:11 PM
Disclaimer: I wouldn't know Alleva from a chipmunk, and, while I was a player on the LAX board, did not get much of the nuanced discussion of Duke personalities and who did what and why, etc.

My recollection, however, is that Alleva was thought by many to have pandered to the black professors at Duke who comprised much of the 88, and whose radical agendas were anti-athlete. Seems to me that that might have something to do with why he was ripped in this instance. Or not.

Gray if what you say is true, that's even more insane. A guy caters to special racial interests in one situation but doesn't in another and Saunders rips him? The guy makes my ex wife seem rational!

ugadevil
12-18-2007, 12:13 PM
While Saunders talks about how all Broadway is done is win...why can't he acknowledge that Cutcliffe has had success on an even bigger stage? It's impressive for a coach who builds a winning program no matter where he is, but winning at Ole' Miss is more impressive than winning at Grambling, in my opinion. Cutcliffe coached his teams in 5 bowl games, and he won 4 of them. Not bad at all.

Acymetric
12-18-2007, 12:17 PM
Barry Saunders is a sports writer? I thought he wrote for the Metro section of the N&O.

Yes, he usually writes in the City & (something else...I haven't been home in a while) section. Section B maybe? Or D? I haven't been home in a while...college and all.

I usually like his pieces, though a lot of them are obviously tainted with his extreme desire to bring race into every issue. He's extremely cynical (so am I) and his sense of humor is dry, so I love it. Unfortunately, this article was trash, and I can't believe the N&O let it run.

Maybe Broadway would have been a better coach for us, but apparently Alleva didn't think so. They've both been successful, but Broadway has had success at a lower level, while Cutcliffe has had success at what I would say is a higher level (the SEC). How many black coaches did Michigan consider? GT? Its really too bad that in todays media attacking good institutions and cities (Durham has its problems, but its a good city. When I graduate I'd be perfectly happy moving back) is the best way to get ratings/readers.

AtlBluRew
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
That kind of column is exactly why I thought that hiring Broadway would have been seen as a concession to the black community of Durham and not as a signal that Duke was getting serious about its football program.

Uncle Drew
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
I think the thing that irks me most about the article is Saunders assumes race DID play an issue and he basically insinuates the choice was A or B and Duke chose A because he was white. (Or didn't choose B because he was black.)

If they had hired Broadway I for one (of many) would have applauded just like I did when they made the Cutcliffe hire. Duke fans wouldn't care if the school hired a Arabic, transgendered, communist if they could win some football games!


When Coach K is done nobody would get upset about Johnny Dawkins taking over. Alana Beard as female basketball coach some day? Bring it on! Race is an issue to Mr Saunders, he doesn't like it's not an issue for most of us and he wants to make it one. THOSE are the people in this world who DO make it an issue and make it a negative one!

greybeard
12-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Gray if what you say is true, that's even more insane. A guy caters to special racial interests in one situation but doesn't in another and Saunders rips him? The guy makes my ex wife seem rational!

Never met her.

Here is scenario: an athletic director is part of an administration who rewards black professors after they sensationalize and capitalize on an anti-athlete agenda at a particularly vulnerable time for Duke; those same professors have nothing whatever to say when that same athletic director goes out and fills a position with a non black when everyone in America knows that blacks have historically been excluded from just such positions for eons. Some might be of the view that that picture has the potential to hurt Duke athletics, particularly with regard to the recruitment of black athletes. In fact, the subtext here of many of the rants seems to imply that they view this reporter as having done his bit to try to make that view a reality.

Please note that I do not subscribe to the view that the hiring decision here was in any way suspect. I know squadoosh about football. The only two Duke football coaches I know anything about or even can name are (1) the ball coach, whose rap I love, and (2) Tom Harp, who refused against all reason and my exhortations from the stands in Ithaca to "tro da ball!" ;)

Duvall
12-18-2007, 12:31 PM
That kind of column is exactly why I thought that hiring Broadway would have been seen as a concession to the black community of Durham and not as a signal that Duke was getting serious about its football program.

This kind of thread is exactly why I didn't want a black coach to have to deal with Duke fandom.

sandinmyshoes
12-18-2007, 12:32 PM
Saunders is just a grump with no special expertise about sports. Or most anything else from what I've read.

'84 and counting
12-18-2007, 12:37 PM
Saunders is on another rant. His "spineless" accusation is just that - spineless. He conspicuously omits the fact that Clarence Newsome (Duke grad and President of Shaw University) supports the Cutcliffe hire and has gone on the record as saying that Cutcliffe was the best candidate in the pool.

No slight to Broadway or Dorrell, but, by the reasonable criteria Alleva laid out for Duke's next coach, Cutcliffe was the logical choice. If Alleva were truly spineless, he would have sought PC cover by hiring Broadway or Dorrell. That would have given him immunity from criticism from the likes of the Saunders and the 88, but it may not have been the best decision for Duke football. Alleva's decision to hire Cutcliffe after having interviewed Broadway and Dorrell (which generated the predictible diversity dance "love in" articles) suggests to me that Duke might finally be serious about building a competitive football program at Duke.

Nevertheless, it is likely that Saunder's temper tantrum is merely an opening salvo in what is likely to be "more to come" from the PC warriors.

Acymetric
12-18-2007, 12:38 PM
This kind of thread is exactly why I didn't want a black coach to have to deal with Duke fandom.

I wouldn't blame this on the fans so much as the media. No matter who we hire, its going to get spun. We hire a white guy? We should have gotten the quality black guy, we chose not to due to race, not some other factor such as coaching experience.

We hire a black guy, someone's going to spin it that we only hired him because he was black, and we should have hired Cutcliffe because he's more qualified.

Its lose lose for Duke, and lose lose for whoever we hire if they choose to look into it. Just don't give it the time of day. I'm glad we got a good coach, and I'd say that if we had hired Broadway too. Duke fans want a winner, the media wants to spin everything in a negative light because its what people like to read, especially about Duke.

allenmurray
12-18-2007, 12:40 PM
Saunders is just a grump with no special expertise about sports. Or most anything else from what I've read.

I don't care to comment on Saunder's article, but he may know a little more about college football than you think. His son was a star at Durham's Riverside High School (which played for the state championship in 2006). He was heavily recruited, and eventually went to South Carolina, where he was one of the only true freshman to start for Steve (the old ball coach) Spurrier.

blueprofessor
12-18-2007, 12:44 PM
:D According to the Tallahassee Democrat. No mention of any white coaches having been interviewed.

PDDuke85
12-18-2007, 12:55 PM
I believe JA, in explaining his criteria for the new head coach, amongst other things, was success, as a head coach at the D1-A, BCS level. Mr. Broadway, I believe, did not qualify, based on criteria. If I'm correct, I don't believe Mr. Broadway is a victim.

I hope you can peace in this world, Mr. Saunders.

SoCalDukeFan
12-18-2007, 01:22 PM
He would have said that JA's criteria left him with only 1 black coach (I think) in the pool.

How many black coaches have had "success" at a BCS school and were "reasonably available?" My guess is that it is only Karl Dorrell. And if Saunders was even half smart he would realize that Cutcliffe is a far better choice for Duke than Dorrell.

And if he were half smart he would realize that an AD who went 0-2 with his football coaching hires would want a record of success at a BCS school for his 3rd.

I personally would not have had the BCS criteria and would have hired Broadway over Dorrell. However I think Cutcliffe is a great choice and am very happy with it.

Moving a coach up a level is a risk which is why ADs are willing to do almost anything to secure established coaches - see Arkansas, Alabama, Michigan etc. I would like to see a BCS school take a chance on Broadway but certainly understand why JA did not at this time in Duke's football's history.

SoCal

SmartDevil
12-18-2007, 01:37 PM
Alleva has botched a number of things, including the selection of the LAST two football coaches. Even the selection of our new coach now took a bit longer than perhaps it should have. But he seems to have come up with a highly-qualified candidate who is a known quantity and has demonstrated a record of achievement consistent with the announced (and appropriate) search criteria. Alleva deserves credit for that.

Broadway may be an outstanding "high-profile college" coach someday--perhaps even at Duke in the future--but the search committee, the AD, and the Duke administration were correct in choosing as they did. And we should be enthused by their choice.

I agree with those who have commented that the columnist in question is unfairly and incorrectly targeting Duke.

RPS
12-18-2007, 01:37 PM
I personally would not have had the BCS criteria and would have hired Broadway over Dorrell. However I think Cutcliffe is a great choice and am very happy with it.I generally agree. Cutcliffe is a good, solid choice with good experience and a reasonable chance to be successful if (and only if) Duke follows through on its newly-found commitment to excellence in football. Broadway might have been more than a solid choice -- he might have been an inspired choice (in much the same way K turned out to be an inspired choice) -- but choosing him would have entailed greater risk. So I understand the thinking that risk avoidance is necessary in this instance, given our football history and status.

Lord Ash
12-18-2007, 01:55 PM
Is Saunders a black man?

SmartDevil
12-18-2007, 02:00 PM
Is Saunders a black man?

Is that germane?

DevilWolf
12-18-2007, 02:03 PM
Talk about spineless ... Saunders is one of the many people in our society who have given up on fighting racism and prejudice and have decided to make a living from it. It's hard for me to take people seriously who benefit from promoting biggotry, and that's exactly what he's doing. So play the role of being a voice of the people while you continue to be a sell out, Mr. Saunders.

blazindw
12-18-2007, 02:12 PM
He would have said that JA's criteria left him with only 1 black coach (I think) in the pool.

How many black coaches have had "success" at a BCS school and were "reasonably available?" My guess is that it is only Karl Dorrell. And if Saunders was even half smart he would realize that Cutcliffe is a far better choice for Duke than Dorrell.

And if he were half smart he would realize that an AD who went 0-2 with his football coaching hires would want a record of success at a BCS school for his 3rd.

I personally would not have had the BCS criteria and would have hired Broadway over Dorrell. However I think Cutcliffe is a great choice and am very happy with it.

Moving a coach up a level is a risk which is why ADs are willing to do almost anything to secure established coaches - see Arkansas, Alabama, Michigan etc. I would like to see a BCS school take a chance on Broadway but certainly understand why JA did not at this time in Duke's football's history.

SoCal

And remember, Karl Dorrell was rumored to be the frontrunner until Cutcliffe was called in. And even then, it was rumored to be down to Coach C and Dorrell as the 2 finalists.

As an American American, I do understand where Saunders is coming from. However, I like Cutcliffe as a hire. Broadway doesn't have the experience that JA so defined in the press conference when Roof was fired. Dorrell, in my mind, would have been a good hire. Cutcliffe was better. There are plenty of moments where you can make a statement. With our current state in football, I don't feel that this was the time to make that sort of statement. Broadway may be a stud someday, it just won't be with us. Dorrell is a great offensive mind, and perhaps his firing may have led to a graduation to the NFL ranks. However, we needed, as we always do, to go after the best man for the job. That man is Cutcliffe. While I feel that African Americans should be able to be considered for opportunities to succeed, I also feel they should be earned. I would expect nothing less from someone who hires me or the next person. Trust me, when I do a great job in whatever I do, people hopefully do not see that I'm black. They see the quality of my character and the excellent work that I can produce.

P.S. And with this, I just got this thread moved to the PP board.

Cavlaw
12-18-2007, 02:13 PM
Does Saunders have any connection to Duke? I was just curious about his wording:


As is customary, Alleva used the news conference to tell why Cutcliffe was the perfect choice. He owed it to us to tell why Rod Broadway wasn't.

Owed? Seriously?

Bluedawg
12-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Barry Saunders is a sports writer? I thought he wrote for the Metro section of the N&O.

He's just a columnist and yes, usually in the metro section

allenmurray
12-18-2007, 02:53 PM
Talk about spineless ... Saunders is one of the many people in our society who have given up on fighting racism and prejudice and have decided to make a living from it. It's hard for me to take people seriously who benefit from promoting biggotry, and that's exactly what he's doing. So play the role of being a voice of the people while you continue to be a sell out, Mr. Saunders.

I thought this column by Saunders was pretty weak. But actually, I think his take on racial issues, both local and national, is pretty spot-on much of the time.

jimsumner
12-18-2007, 02:56 PM
Interesting sidenote. Barry's son Weslye was one of the nation's top prep recruits a few years back. Signed with South Carolina.

The thing that I find intriguing about this is that a number of schools have been very publically criticized for not interviewing any African American coaches. Duke interviewed three. That should dispel any notion that Duke was making a token interview. What I find most disturbing about the column is the implication that, after Bobby Johnson withdrew, Duke found itself with only two African American candidates and made sure they found a white guy. Cutcliffe was on the radar before Johnson withdrew.

I have no doubt that African Americans are under-represented at the D-1 head-football coaching level and I would have been comfortable with Broadway, Dorrell, or Jackson. But Saunders seems unwilling to even concede the possibility that Cutcliffe simply was the best candidate available.

FWIW, I spoke at length after the press conference with a prominent African American member of the search committee. If he was unhappy with the selection of Cutcliffe, then he should give up academia and take up acting, 'cause he was doing a heck of a selling job.

wilko
12-18-2007, 03:02 PM
I'll be curious to hear IF there is any response.

I kinda like his work. Granted I read maybe a 4 of his columns a year if Im lucky... So maybe I timed it right and managed to hit the "good ones".

I used to find him annoying. Maybe I've gotten used to him or we have both gotten over some of our individual issues. But he isnt as bad as he used to be at least in so far as I remember....

Here is what I sent him...

------------
Ouch dude. That was a pretty scathing review of Allevas search for a football coach.

I must confess that I normally dont read your column. Dont take that wrong, When I get the paper, I'll read what you have to say, but I just dont go out of my way for the N&O. In my sporadic reading of your columns over the past few years, I used to be annoyed by the things you say.. but then the more I read of your work.. the more your written word and my opinions seemed to converge. I actually found myself enjoying what you had to say, so when an N&O is handy, I'll look for your work.

Did Duke cop out by hiring the of Cutcliffe? Im not convinced. No Disrespect to Broadway. His resume is impressive. If he had been to a bowl or gotten to the SEC or ACC championship as a head coach, Duke may well have made a different choice. Duke is the bottom of the barrel right now. I dont think they could afford to take a large risk. They needed a name. Nobody for the next 5 yrs has any grounds to accuse Duke of running up the score should they ever happen to win a game by more than a saftey.

Maybe I am being blind, or maybe you know more than you are telling... but lets give Cut a chance. Maybe he will put his equivalent of Dawkins as an assistant to take over at somepoint. Say in the event of another traumatic health event. Who knows. I hate so sound naive here, cuz I am just a local boy born at the school of science and math.. but maybe, just maybe the lack of a hire for Broadway was based on his being a UNC graduate rather than his race.

I wonder if an equally fair comparison to make would be "How many Duke alums has UNC hired to coaching positions" How many folks of color even interviewed for the recent State and UNC jobs? Was your reaction the same when they hired Butch and Tom?

Ok maybe thats a bit trite. I understand and respect you wanting to support your friend. But to act like Duke is the only school ever to do this is also trite.

Keep up the good work and I hope your columns continue to challenge me to broaden my perspective.

------------------

While I can glean alot of folks dont like his work; you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

killerleft
12-18-2007, 03:06 PM
Do a search at DIW to get an idea of Saunders' hypocricy. Although that is pretty apparent when you take into account his silence when UNC and State didn't hire Mr. Broadway or another minority candidate.

He has an axe to grind, and flip-flopping on issues is as natural to him as breathing.

allenmurray
12-18-2007, 03:15 PM
his silence when UNC and State didn't hire Mr. Broadway or another minority candidate.

He has an axe to grind, and flip-flopping on issues is as natural to him as breathing.

He clearly has an anti-Duke bias, which he writes about from time to time.

ehdg
12-18-2007, 03:20 PM
Don't forget that N.C. State hire. Tom O'Brien must've been a spineless hire as well.

True but NC State at least has a minority BBAll coach in Sidney Lowe. So that's one more then at Duke. So I wouldn't use that as basis for your argument.

I don't believe race should play into picking a coach. I think it should be based on qualifications. Was Broadway qualified for the job? HELL Yess!! But who outside of the committee know if he really wanted it and was willing to leave Grambling? Our new coach hopefully will do well but Broadway might have been in some ways a bit of a better hire. It might have helped to ease relations with the city of Durham in a small way. But that's over and done with now! We have our new coach so it's time to move on and get ready for next season!!

Devilsfan
12-18-2007, 03:35 PM
But frankly I don't think he was fair in his critcism of Joe or Dick in the reason for their selection, however. I truely don't want to and don't believe the position was filled or not filled based on color or creed. I only want the best candidate for the position to be selected and only time will tell how well they did. I personally would have been fine with either Mr. Broadway or Mr. Cutcliffe. Now that Mr. Cutcliffe is our coach he deserves our full support.

ivduke
12-18-2007, 03:40 PM
the column is a joke and the guy is getting exactly what he was looking for and that was shock value. When you place demands publicly of the candidate you are looking to hire, and then hire such a candidate there is nothing more that can be said other than..... "great hire for Duke."

ivduke
12-18-2007, 03:42 PM
True but NC State at least has a minority BBAll coach in Sidney Lowe. So that's one more then at Duke. So I wouldn't use that as basis for your argument.

I don't believe race should play into picking a coach. I think it should be based on qualifications. Was Broadway qualified for the job? HELL Yess!! But who outside of the committee know if he really wanted it and was willing to leave Grambling? Our new coach hopefully will do well but Broadway might have been in some ways a bit of a better hire. It might have helped to ease relations with the city of Durham in a small way. But that's over and done with now! We have our new coach so it's time to move on and get ready for next season!!

You're wrong here....
Based on the qualifications that Alleva made public that he was looking for Broadway was not qualified.

Doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a great coach, but much like interviewing for a job that requires a master's degree. You may be capable of excellence in the job, but without a master's you're not qualified.

Shammrog
12-18-2007, 04:01 PM
I thought this column by Saunders was pretty weak. But actually, I think his take on racial issues, both local and national, is pretty spot-on much of the time.

I hope that the latter assessment wouldn't include this little bit of race-baiting garbage from Mr. saunders:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/duke_lacrosse/story/699899.html

Duvall
12-18-2007, 04:05 PM
I hope that the latter assessment wouldn't include this little bit of race-baiting garbage from Mr. saunders:

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/duke_lacrosse/story/699899.html

Surely you can find a better example than that. While that column is incendiary and dismissive, it's neither race-baiting nor entirely wrong.

blueprofessor
12-18-2007, 04:09 PM
From ehdh:"I don't believe race should play into picking a coach. I think it should be based on qualifications. Was Broadway qualified for the job? HELL Yess!! But who outside of the committee know if he really wanted it and was willing to leave Grambling? Our new coach hopefully will do well but Broadway might have been in some ways a bit of a better hire. It might have helped to ease relations with the city of Durham in a small way. But that's over and done with now! We have our new coach so it's time to move on and get ready for next season!!"

Coach Broadway's base salary at Grambling is $165,000.Looks like he is seriously considering A&M, several rungs below the ACC.
The link:http://www.rattlernews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071218/FAMU02/712180312/1002/SPORTS

dukestheheat
12-18-2007, 04:12 PM
He is a highly controversial 'writer' for the News and Disturber in Rawleigh; he is cut from the same vein as the 'Reverend' Al 'the Charlatan' Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. He is not well-respected overall for balanced journalism (no one I know takes him seriously) and truly, he appeals to an eclectic reader-ship.

dth.

formerdukeathlete
12-18-2007, 04:33 PM
JA leaned toward hiring someone other than Cut, apparently, reading the boards on the hire. It may have been the UCLA coach.

The hiring committee leaned toward Cut, as the best coach, including best on game day, available.

Logical hire - no place but for the best hire when this may be our one opportunity to fundraise and re-emphasize football.

365Duke
12-18-2007, 04:37 PM
except I wanted to make sure to show off my new avatar in this thread talking about BS's BS!:D

arnie
12-18-2007, 05:22 PM
As an everyday reader of the n&o, I can tell you that Barry Saunders absolutely hates Duke and successful white people (or maybe he just likes to bait those categories of people). He blasted the lacrosse team repeatedly, even after it was obvious that they did not commit the crimes accused of.

The analogy to Al Sharpton with a UNC bias would be appropriate.

captmojo
12-18-2007, 06:45 PM
I don't normally read the Raleigh paper so I am not aware of Mr. Saunders past columns. But from what I read in this, it appears he is only thinking of speaking to an audience of the like minded. A racist rant aimed at inciting the choir. As someone earlier mentioned, Mr. Alleva owes him(Saunders), nor anyone else outside the university, any explanation concerning whomever he decides to hire. It is a gift from the athletic department that a press conference was put together for Mr. Saunders and anyone else to be witness to, for the introduction of whoever was hired.

Saunders, and all others of his critical nature, should come to realize that those outside the university administration don't have a legitimate claim as to who picks up the mantle of head coach at Duke. Mr. Alleva was not obligated in any form to conform to any outsider's standards.

Personally, I would have been accepting of anyone he chose. Furthermore, this would be the case if the university had selected Mr. Saunders himself.

The Sandman
12-18-2007, 07:38 PM
I defy anyone to write a more racially charged and unprofessional piece than this moron Saunders just did. If the N&O had any backbone (of course they don't), they'd pink slip this guy on the spot. Come to think of it, if they ever got any wits about them, they'd recognize what a gigantic stain they are on the Triangle area and immediately cease operations. People like Barry Saunders are the reason why Durham has never been able to shake the white-against black, Duke-against-Durham mentality that hovers over the city like a storm cloud. It's a shame that their voices are the ones that get heard, rather than those of the masses of people saying, "Can't we all just get along?"

SMO
12-18-2007, 07:55 PM
Saunders is just a grump with no special expertise about sports. Or most anything else from what I've read.

Saunders is a race peddler. Just look at his pieces on the lacrosse story. He knows there's a contingent in Durham that will eat up any story suggesting that Duke administrators and/or students are racist. What a clown.

OZ
12-18-2007, 08:10 PM
Roy Williams is half hound dog. That took guts.


Thanks. You gave me a good laugh.

johnb
12-18-2007, 08:30 PM
I agree that the article appeared unfair; it reminds me of Serena Roberts' hatchet jobs during the lacrosse scandal (and for which she never apologized).

I think, however, that it is useful to seriously consider where the animosity comes from. My understanding is that 1 of 21 Duke coaches are nonwhite. The civil rights act had not been signed when I was born. Racism is alive and well throughout America, though privileged white members of the society are significantly less likely to notice the racism than anyone who is African American (regardless of income). Saunders came off as slanted and racist, himself, and did seem to imply that Broadway should have gotten the job because he's black--which is bad tactics and wrongheaded. Nevertheless, his underlying point remains true even if it sounds like he's banging the same drum over and over.

Duvall
12-18-2007, 08:33 PM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's the wrong time for a black coach to have to deal with Duke football.

thomas
12-18-2007, 09:04 PM
I have not read every post concerning the excellent selection of Coach Cut, but whether anyone agrees with me or not....I did not want a graduate of UNC being the head football coach at my school. I don't care what race, creed, color, or party affiliation he/she is. The "brother" (to use the N&O language) from UCLA might have been fine. If I were a UNC fan, I would not want a Duke grad being hired there.

So, there, I've said it. GTHC.

JG Nothing
12-18-2007, 09:58 PM
I am not defending Saunder's column, but let's consider a couple facts.
First, Duke has never hired a black head coach in its entire existence. Moreover, the last two head football coaches (and last four out of five) that Duke hired were white and had no head coaching experience at the college level. (Contrast that with Broadway who, as a head coach, has turned two programs around after giving Duke 14 years of service.)
Second, only 4% of D1 college football coaches are black, while 55% of college football players are black.
It is interesting that people typically do not think about these types of racial disparities unless black folks complain. Otherwise it is business as usual. Unfortunately the business seems to be open primarily to whites with a few tokens thrown in.
The people who claim that race should not or does not matter are simply the flip side of people who see everything through the lense of race like Saunders. Reality is complicated. To say race should not matter when it obviously does simply reinforces the status quo. That's nice if you're white, but sucks if your black.

sandinmyshoes
12-18-2007, 09:59 PM
I don't care to comment on Saunder's article, but he may know a little more about college football than you think. His son was a star at Durham's Riverside High School (which played for the state championship in 2006). He was heavily recruited, and eventually went to South Carolina, where he was one of the only true freshman to start for Steve (the old ball coach) Spurrier.


I was, in fact, aware of that. He went grumpy on UNC for firing Bunting, and was grumpy that they should keep the primary recruiter of his son (I can't remember who that was). Word from UNC fans is that his son chose South Carolina because of the uncertainty with the coaching situation at UNC, and then when Bunting was fired the younger Saunders flirted with changing his verbal commitment and signing with UNC, but the elder Sanders insisted that he honor his verbal. The reason given by the senior Saunders was that your word should be your bond, but he also was reported to be upset that Bunting was fired.

I gather Saunders is a UNC grad.

Mike Corey
12-18-2007, 10:16 PM
JA leaned toward hiring someone other than Cut, apparently, reading the boards on the hire. It may have been the UCLA coach.

This is untrue, I'm afraid.

Coach Cutcliffe "blew everyone away," including Joe Alleva. The decision to offer the job to Cutcliffe was not resisted by anyone who ultimately had a say in who Duke's next head coach would be.

Had Cutcliffe not done such an extraordinary job in his interview, the result obviously may have been different. But after Cutcliffe's visit to the University, he immediately rose to the top of everyone's list--including Joe Alleva's.

arnie
12-20-2007, 02:29 PM
So Barry Saunders has two consecutive "I hate Duke and white people articles (N&O) in 3 days". His ridiculous assertions are a hindrance to improved race relations - but I guess this stuff helps his pocketbook in the end.

weezie
12-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Yup. Bad publicity is better than no publicity for Mr BS.

devildeac
12-20-2007, 04:54 PM
This is untrue, I'm afraid.

Coach Cutcliffe "blew everyone away," including Joe Alleva. The decision to offer the job to Cutcliffe was not resisted by anyone who ultimately had a say in who Duke's next head coach would be.

Had Cutcliffe not done such an extraordinary job in his interview, the result obviously may have been different. But after Cutcliffe's visit to the University, he immediately rose to the top of everyone's list--including Joe Alleva's.

Good info. It's a shame that our race-baiting, Duke-hating bro' from the n&o didn't bother to do much research before penning his garbage piece earlier this week.

Mike Corey
12-20-2007, 05:33 PM
I assure you, Mr. Saunders has heard from plenty within the Duke community since his putrid piece ran.

Mr. Saunders isn't one for researching. But like so many of his peers in the "news" business, he's all about making news himself rather than reporting it. His latest columns are woefully inaccurate. And even if they weren't, they are venomous compilations of words and phrases that do nothing but mimic the styles of blowhards on radio and television, those bellowers of bloviations.

His reportage is reminiscent of another model N&O columnist, Gregg Doyel (sp?). Truth be damned, he wants to agitate the masses and aggrandize as much as he can with as little substance as possible.

Duvall
12-20-2007, 05:42 PM
His reportage is reminiscent of another model N&O columnist, Gregg Doyel.

Doyel worked for the Charlotte Observer.

Duvall
12-20-2007, 05:44 PM
So Barry Saunders has two consecutive "I hate Duke and white people articles (N&O) in 3 days". His ridiculous assertions are a hindrance to improved race relations - but I guess this stuff helps his pocketbook in the end.

I doubt the impact of 400 years of race relations will be dramatically affected by a few columns from a mediocre columnist at a regional daily newspaper.