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View Full Version : For all the O's fans out there...



duke98
12-16-2007, 06:48 PM
I know there are quite a few of this on the board; other MLB fans might want to chime in too.

I look at the Mitchell Report -- which, admittedly, is not an iron-clad declaration of guilt, but that's another topic for another thread -- and I see a *lot* of names from Orioles rosters of the last 7-10 years. I'm counting five: Jay Gibbons, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts, Jerry Hairston Jr., and David Segui.

And while we all know that Peter Angelos is largely to blame for the downfall of this once-proud franchise (if I ever meet that guy in a dark alley....), I can't help but wonder -- did steroids also contribute to the demise of the Orioles?

I don't know enough about the goings-on of the team to know how it might affect things. But I can imagine that steroid use wouldn't exactly contribute positively to interpersonal relationships (especially involving the users; we hear a lot about 'roid rage, etc) and teamwork. If some were using, and others weren't, there was probably a lot of gossip and resentment.

The O's of the past ten years have been moderately talented teams that have always underproduced. Perhaps the X factor has been rampant steroid use and all of the problems that undoubtedly ensue from it.

Just an idea...discuss (and feel free to smack it down if you disagree).

dukie8
12-16-2007, 06:55 PM
I know there are quite a few of this on the board; other MLB fans might want to chime in too.

I look at the Mitchell Report -- which, admittedly, is not an iron-clad declaration of guilt, but that's another topic for another thread -- and I see a *lot* of names from Orioles rosters of the last 7-10 years. I'm counting five: Jay Gibbons, Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts, Jerry Hairston Jr., and David Segui.

And while we all know that Peter Angelos is largely to blame for the downfall of this once-proud franchise (if I ever meet that guy in a dark alley....), I can't help but wonder -- did steroids also contribute to the demise of the Orioles?

I don't know enough about the goings-on of the team to know how it might affect things. But I can imagine that steroid use wouldn't exactly contribute positively to interpersonal relationships (especially involving the users; we hear a lot about 'roid rage, etc) and teamwork. If some were using, and others weren't, there was probably a lot of gossip and resentment.

The O's of the past ten years have been moderately talented teams that have always underproduced. Perhaps the X factor has been rampant steroid use and all of the problems that undoubtedly ensue from it.

Just an idea...discuss (and feel free to smack it down if you disagree).

there are more yankees on there and they have done just fine. i think you are overlooking a lack of pitching on the part of the o's. seriously, can you compare the o's starters and bullpens to that of championship teams over the past decade...especially when a lot of the other teams' starters were roided up (er, clemens).

dukie8
12-16-2007, 06:56 PM
i also think that there is an unusual number of players linked to larussa. talk about turning a blind eye to things...

EarlJam
12-16-2007, 07:46 PM
I, EarlJam, a HUGE lifelong O's fan noticed that too. I don't know how much it (Roids) contributed to the demise of the Orioles, but all I could think of was hey, at least the Yankees got some good performance out of the whole thing. The O's cheated and still sucked. Geez, they can't do ANYTHING right.

-EarlJam

P.S. I don't know how or in what capacity, but somehow I just feel the that the remedy, the hope, the salvation of the O's will rest in the hand of Cal Ripken.

pacificrounder
12-17-2007, 04:57 PM
Doesn't add up to me. I would attribute it more to pitching, untimely injuries, and generally bad trades. Or maybe it's just some sort of intergalactic force keeping them down.

AtlBluRew
12-17-2007, 10:15 PM
I think that the presence of so many Orioles on the list is just a factor of who the sources are. If I remember correctly, one of the sources, the Yankees trainer, was introduced to some of the O's by a former O/present Yankee. David Sequi, I think. Plus, Baltimore is an easy drive from NYC -- so no risk of sending packages through the mail.

WeepingThomasHill
12-17-2007, 10:55 PM
The downfall of the Orioles began with the Jeffrey Maier play (may he burn in hell), and culminated with Angleos getting rid of Davey Johnson after the '97 season. Since then, we have had 10 straight miserable, losing seasons with no end in sight (the "Davey Johnson Curse"). Syd Thrift, Flanagan, Angelos - the front office has been a wasteland until McPhail came along. The farm system is barren and the player development nonexistent. The Orioles could be the worst team in the league this year. The Davey Johnson Curse will last another decade.

Jumbo
12-17-2007, 11:51 PM
I, EarlJam, a HUGE lifelong O's fan noticed that too. I don't know how much it (Roids) contributed to the demise of the Orioles, but all I could think of was hey, at least the Yankees got some good performance out of the whole thing. The O's cheated and still sucked. Geez, they can't do ANYTHING right.

-EarlJam

P.S. I don't know how or in what capacity, but somehow I just feel the that the remedy, the hope, the salvation of the O's will rest in the hand of Cal Ripken.

The reason that it looks like some teams juiced more than other teams is because the Mitchell report really only relied on two sources. I guarantee that the same number of players were doing the same thing for other teams -- they were just using sources that Mitchell couldn't find. Radomski/McNamee/Anderson were prominent names form other invetigations. It's not like Mitchell uncovered anyone on his own. So, the guys who supply the Twins or the Brewers or the Angels or whomever else are still out there.

EarlJam
12-18-2007, 01:48 AM
The downfall of the Orioles began with the Jeffrey Maier play (may he burn in hell), and culminated with Angleos getting rid of Davey Johnson after the '97 season.

Yes. Also, Peter Angleos, may he burn in hell.

Every time I see that Jeffrey Maier play, I get angry. What a horrible, horrible call. Who knows? Had the right call been made, the O's might have won it all that year. So come to think of it....

The umpire that made that call, may he burn in hell.

Also, whoever was sitting in Section 147, seat G in Yankee Stadium that day, may he or she bun in hell.

-EarlJam

Lavabe
12-18-2007, 07:48 AM
Also, whoever was sitting in Section 147, seat G in Yankee Stadium that day, may he or she bun in hell.

-EarlJam

Why not a row #? You have now condemned at least 25 people. Wow that's vicious. You must be REALLY mad.

A bun in hell? Oh that could be fun!;)
Cheers,
Lavabe

EarlJam
12-18-2007, 09:16 AM
Why not a row #? You have now condemned at least 25 people. Wow that's vicious. You must be REALLY mad.

A bun in hell? Oh that could be fun!;)
Cheers,
Lavabe

Arrrrgh! Thanks. My bad. It was supposed to be row eight, but today is a day of love and blessings, so no one gets condemned today. I take it all back.

All we need is love today. I repeat: all we need is love. To be clear, all we need is love, love. You see, Love is all we need.

-BeatleJam

Jumbo
12-18-2007, 09:27 AM
Yes. Also, Peter Angleos, may he burn in hell.

Every time I see that Jeffrey Maier play, I get angry. What a horrible, horrible call. Who knows? Had the right call been made, the O's might have won it all that year. So come to think of it....

The umpire that made that call, may he burn in hell.

Also, whoever was sitting in Section 147, seat G in Yankee Stadium that day, may he or she bun in hell.

-EarlJam

Yeah, poor Orioles. That would have swung the whole series. I mean, the Yankees won in five games -- clearly they wouldn't have been good enough to respond to a 1-0 deficit had Tony Tarasco caught the ball...

EarlJam
12-18-2007, 09:38 AM
Yeah, poor Orioles. That would have swung the whole series. I mean, the Yankees won in five games -- clearly they wouldn't have been good enough to respond to a 1-0 deficit had Tony Tarasco caught the ball...

Note: I did not say the Orioles WOULD have won the whole thing. I said they COULD have won the whole thing.

That play was a momentum killer and what gets me the most is the call was just plain wrong. Geez Jumbo, do you not see where that play was huge? You think its effect was minimal? Trivial?

It was a HUGE play that did swing the game and potentially, POTENTIALLY, the series. At least that's what my loyal-to-a-fault, orange-bleeding heart believes.

To act like that play just wasn't a big deal, well, you'd be the first from either side (that I know of) to argue that point.

-EarlJam

Jumbo
12-18-2007, 09:47 AM
Note: I did not say the Orioles WOULD have won the whole thing. I said they COULD have won the whole thing.

That play was a momentum killer and what gets me the most is the call was just plain wrong. Geez Jumbo, do you not see where that play was huge? You think its effect was minimal? Trivial?

It was a HUGE play that did swing the game and potentially, POTENTIALLY, the series. At least that's what my loyal-to-a-fault, orange-bleeding heart believes.

To act like that play just wasn't a big deal, well, you'd be the first from either side (that I know of) to argue that point.

-EarlJam

Boo hoo. Momentum? The 1996 Yanks didn't need no stinking momentum (see World Series vs. Braves; 2-0 deficit).

EarlJam
12-18-2007, 10:23 AM
Boo hoo. Momentum? The 1996 Yanks didn't need no stinking momentum (see World Series vs. Braves; 2-0 deficit).

Are you a Yankees fan? You are being mean. You, Jumbo, are a mean Yankees fan. I would be mean too, but not today.

For today, I love, and I weep for the current state of humanity....and bad singers named "David" such as D. Hasselhoff, D. Soul and D. Cassidy.

Just kidding man. Come on over here. Give EarlJam a big virtual hug. :o

-E to the A to the R to the L to the J to the A to the M!