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jimsumner
12-13-2007, 02:02 PM
Sprained ankle in practice. Doubtful for Monday. No word on MSG.

Duvall
12-13-2007, 02:03 PM
Sprained ankle in practice. Doubtful for Monday. No word on MSG.

Jim, you really should use more descriptive thread titles around this time of year.

SilkyJ
12-13-2007, 02:13 PM
Jim, you really should use more descriptive thread titles around this time of year.

if you're saying that you were thinking something much worse had happened then I agree. I was thinking big time injury when I saw that.

juise
12-13-2007, 02:14 PM
Jim, you really should use more descriptive thread titles around this time of year.

The "T" word? Yeah, that was my first thought too... so glad it's not the story.

YmoBeThere
12-13-2007, 02:20 PM
The T word? As in torn? Hmmm....I don't follow.

billybreen
12-13-2007, 02:30 PM
The T word? As in torn? Hmmm....I don't follow.

It's like transfat where fat is fur spelled funny.

Bob Green
12-13-2007, 02:32 PM
The question is who becomes our fifth starter? Jon Scheyer? Brian Zoubek? Taylor King? David McClure? I believe a case could be made for (and against) each.

jimsumner
12-13-2007, 02:37 PM
Transfer would have invoked something more along the lines of :eek:

Olympic Fan
12-13-2007, 02:38 PM
Interesting speculation ...

I like Scheyer as the sixth man ... plus as much as I like the small lineup, I hate to start with it.

Not sure McClure is ready to start.

That leaves Zoubek and King. I really don't know ... I might like to see King get the start ... if Thomas continues to struggle (he did have three poor games before the injury), King might be better to prepare as a long-term starter because I think Zoubek will contiunue to be a spot starter.

Bluedawg
12-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Interesting speculation ...

I like Scheyer as the sixth man ... plus as much as I like the small lineup, I hate to start with it.

Not sure McClure is ready to start.

That leaves Zoubek and King. I really don't know ... I might like to see King get the start ... if Thomas continues to struggle (he did have three poor games before the injury), King might be better to prepare as a long-term starter because I think Zoubek will contiunue to be a spot starter.

I like Taylor King in that spot

YmoBeThere
12-13-2007, 02:40 PM
Yeah, a transfer would have surprised me. He knows he is going to get minutes and has shown progress this year.

Fish80
12-13-2007, 02:54 PM
Albany has only one guy on the roster over 6'8", Brett Gifford at 6'11", averaging 12 minutes a game. So height won't be a significant issue for the Albany game. Their two 6'8" guys play significant minutes.

You could make an argument for starting any one of Scheyer, King, Smith or Zoubek. If McClure has been coming on in practice, he might get the start. But it really doesn't matter, they all should see a lot of minutes.

jlear
12-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Any guesses on how many point favorites we will be for this game?

SilkyJ
12-13-2007, 03:15 PM
Interesting speculation ...

I like Scheyer as the sixth man ... plus as much as I like the small lineup, I hate to start with it.

Not sure McClure is ready to start.

That leaves Zoubek and King. I really don't know ... I might like to see King get the start ... if Thomas continues to struggle (he did have three poor games before the injury), King might be better to prepare as a long-term starter because I think Zoubek will contiunue to be a spot starter.

I'm basically with you that mcclure just isn't ready yet, but were he 100% I think he would make the most sense considering the smaller lineup we will face. I'm also with you on the fact that I don't think we would start with 4 guards...we just haven't played that lineup that much this year. so it comes down to zoubs and king, and I think considering that this is a smaller team and taylor has been playing so well, that King will start.

On the other hand, considering that albany is not that good and are small, I wouldn't be surprised if K goes with the 4 guard lineup to test it out a little. I think we all expected to see more of it so far this season, maybe this will be the game. I think it would be very krzyzewski-esque to start scheyer in this situation.

HumboldtDevil
12-13-2007, 03:25 PM
It doesn't matter who starts against Albany, but against Pitt I'd go with Zoubek (and because of that, then I guess start him on Monday, too). I think it is key, especially against a team like Pitt that rebounds well and has some bulk inside, for Duke to do whatever it can to limit the opponent's ability to establish any kind of inside offense early in the game. With Zoubek in there I think it will make it tougher on Pitt.

I've seen Pitt play once (season opener vs. St. Louis) and even though I wasn't impressed with its overall performance in that one I was really impressed with the freshman Blair. He is a handful; athletic for a big guy, very strong, gets a lot of boards. I just don't like the idea of him being guarded by Kyle or Taylor right off the bat. It isn't that I don't think either one could handle Blair, but I don't want them drawing early fouls. Plus, Blair is a true inside guy with more strength, so unlike Zoubek, Kyle/Taylor don't have anything (other than being good, intelligent ballplayers) that would necessarily make it too difficult for Blair to score. Zoubek is 7'1". I'd rather he pick up early fouls than Kyle or Taylor.

I have a feeling Dave might see some more PT against Pitt now that Lance might be out. At the same time, Lance could very well be fine in a week. I'm sure I'm not the only one here that sprained an ankle and played a game right afterward (be it baseball, basketball, football, soccer, table tennis, or darts).

FWIW, Blair isn't some great, back-to-the-basket interior player yet, but he will pose some matchup problems. I'm worried about fouls more than anything just because Pitt will crash the boards. Limit their inside scoring ability early and the Devils have a chance to blow the game open with their offense.

Wander
12-13-2007, 03:26 PM
Forget Albany. We should just start whoever would be best to start against Pitt. My guess would be King.

DUKIECB
12-13-2007, 03:28 PM
Looking ahead to the Pittsburgh game, they are a pretty small bunch as well. They only have 1 guy over 6'7' that plays substantial minutes and he is 6'10' and only averages 6.2 ppg.

Here's what I found:

Young 6'6' 27.9 mpg 18.1 ppg
Blair 6'7' 20.9 mpg 10.9 ppg
Cook 6'4' 24.8 mpg 10.8 ppg
Fields 5'10' 27.9 mpg 10.2 ppg
Ramon 6'1' 24.3 mpg 7.4 ppg
Biggs 6'10' 20.7 mpg 6.2 ppg

Size wise they are similar to us but have not been putting up big numbers. They beat Washington at their place by a point after a buzzer beater was waived off after review.

Wander
12-13-2007, 03:29 PM
I've seen Pitt play once (season opener vs. St. Louis) and even though I wasn't impressed with its overall performance in that one I was really impressed with the freshman Blair. He is a handful; athletic for a big guy, very strong, gets a lot of boards. I just don't like the idea of him being guarded by Kyle or Taylor right off the bat. It isn't that I don't think either one could handle Blair, but I don't want them drawing early fouls. Plus, Blair is a true inside guy with more strength, so unlike Zoubek, Kyle/Taylor don't have anything (other than being good, intelligent ballplayers) that would necessarily make it too difficult for Blair to score. Zoubek is 7'1". I'd rather he pick up early fouls than Kyle or Taylor.

The reason I don't think we need to start Zoubek is because even though Pitt's frontcourt has been doing a lot of scoring, neither of them are especially tall. If they were getting all those points from a true center, I'd agree with you about Zoubek.

dukeENG2003
12-13-2007, 03:39 PM
playing Zoubek means we're trying to match up to them. I much prefer to make THEM try to match up with US, which is much more difficult if King starts (or Lance if he gets healthy by then). Instead of countering size with size, lets counter it with ball pressure.

DUKIECB
12-13-2007, 03:46 PM
Maybe everyone missed my earlier post:

PITT IS NOT A LARGE TEAM:eek:

Fish80
12-13-2007, 03:53 PM
Forget Albany. We should just start whoever would be best to start against Pitt. My guess would be King.

Don't look past Albany. Focus on the game at hand. Respect your opponent. Motherhood. Apple pie.

VaDukie
12-13-2007, 04:23 PM
Don't look past Albany. Focus on the game at hand. Respect your opponent. Motherhood. Apple pie.

To that I'll add: Freedom. Integrity. Playing for the love of the game. Baseball.

On second thought, scratch baseball.

phaedrus
12-13-2007, 04:27 PM
Here's what I found:

Young 6'6' 27.9 mpg 18.1 ppg
Blair 6'7' 20.9 mpg 10.9 ppg
Cook 6'4' 24.8 mpg 10.8 ppg
Fields 5'10' 27.9 mpg 10.2 ppg
Ramon 6'1' 24.3 mpg 7.4 ppg
Biggs 6'10' 20.7 mpg 6.2 ppg



Oh oh oh, do I get to make this terrible joke first?

"I don't think our bigs will have trouble matching up with Pitt's Biggs."

Saratoga2
12-13-2007, 05:46 PM
Albany has only one guy on the roster over 6'8", Brett Gifford at 6'11", averaging 12 minutes a game. So height won't be a significant issue for the Albany game. Their two 6'8" guys play significant minutes.

You could make an argument for starting any one of Scheyer, King, Smith or Zoubek. If McClure has been coming on in practice, he might get the start. But it really doesn't matter, they all should see a lot of minutes.

Zoubek is showing signs of rounding into shape and improving his game after being hampered with the foot issue. I see nothing wrong with him taking away from any Albany bulk or size advantage with Singler and any 3 perimeter players. We can use King and McClure to spell the inside players while we should have a big advantage on the wings. When we get to Pitt, Thomas would be a big help but we will have to see what is going on with his ankle.

YmoBeThere
12-13-2007, 06:02 PM
Zoubek is showing signs of rounding into shape...

Has he really put on that much weight? Perhaps he'll burn it off during the season? I guess it is the holidays.

Jumbo
12-13-2007, 07:24 PM
Looking ahead to the Pittsburgh game, they are a pretty small bunch as well. They only have 1 guy over 6'7' that plays substantial minutes and he is 6'10' and only averages 6.2 ppg.

Here's what I found:

Young 6'6' 27.9 mpg 18.1 ppg
Blair 6'7' 20.9 mpg 10.9 ppg
Cook 6'4' 24.8 mpg 10.8 ppg
Fields 5'10' 27.9 mpg 10.2 ppg
Ramon 6'1' 24.3 mpg 7.4 ppg
Biggs 6'10' 20.7 mpg 6.2 ppg

Size wise they are similar to us but have not been putting up big numbers. They beat Washington at their place by a point after a buzzer beater was waived off after review.

This is extremely misleading. Elton Brand and Kyle Singler are both 6'8" -- were they remotely similar? You conveniently left out the players' weights. Blair is an absolute load -- 6'7", 265. He has been fantastic as a frosh and is a force on the blocks. Sam Young is incredibly powerful at 6'6". He's listed at 215 pounds, but he is all muscle -- way more physical than Duke's guys of similar height. You have Biggs (6'8", 240) confused with Diggs (6'10" -- plays less).

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 11:39 AM
Oh oh oh, do I get to make this terrible joke first?

"I don't think our bigs will have trouble matching up with Pitt's Biggs."

heyoooo. watch out for this guy.


Has he really put on that much weight? Perhaps he'll burn it off during the season? I guess it is the holidays.

I think he meant it more figuratively as in "he's finding his game." He is also probably getting into game shape, but that has little do with his weight. That was just cause he couldn't run and whatnot while he was out.

mgtr
12-14-2007, 01:20 PM
I believe that at some point this year we will have to rely on Zoubek. I think the Albany game would be a good opportunity to both test him, and maybe build a little confidence in him. King, Scheyer and Smith all know that they will get their minutes later on.
I vote for Zoubs!

throatybeard
12-14-2007, 01:24 PM
"it's over"

365Duke
12-14-2007, 02:13 PM
"it's over"

I thought of the same thing:D

DUKIECB
12-14-2007, 02:46 PM
This is extremely misleading. Elton Brand and Kyle Singler are both 6'8" -- were they remotely similar? You conveniently left out the players' weights. Blair is an absolute load -- 6'7", 265. He has been fantastic as a frosh and is a force on the blocks. Sam Young is incredibly powerful at 6'6". He's listed at 215 pounds, but he is all muscle -- way more physical than Duke's guys of similar height. You have Biggs (6'8", 240) confused with Diggs (6'10" -- plays less).

Holy Cow! I got my info from espn.com and it didn't list the weights of the players. They may not be tall but they gots some beef!

In any event, I think we should still have the overall advantage. What I have seen so far from Pitt this year I wasn't overly impressed. Don't get me wrong, I think they are a talented team, but they just don't jump out at you. What do I know though?

Classof06
12-14-2007, 03:26 PM
playing Zoubek means we're trying to match up to them. I much prefer to make THEM try to match up with US, which is much more difficult if King starts (or Lance if he gets healthy by then). Instead of countering size with size, lets counter it with ball pressure.

This is a great but very overlooked point. Listen guys, Duke is going to face bigger teams very often this year. I think the minute we start trying to match up with them is the minute we get out of what we do best and disaster follows. For as many matchup problems as Duke will have with bigger teams, those same teams will have matchup problems to deal with themselves. I say make them matchup with us.

Someone asked Jay Bilas about UNC-Duke on an ESPN chat today and he said that while UNC is the more talented team, Duke can definitely beat them. Bilas then went on to say that whoever wins will be the team who can best dictate the pace of the game and control the style in which the game is played. And I agree 110%.

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 03:30 PM
This is a great but very overlooked point. Listen guys, Duke is going to face bigger teams very often this year. I think the minute we start trying to match up with them is the minute we get out of what we do best and disaster follows. For as many matchup problems as Duke will have with bigger teams, those same teams will have matchup problems to deal with themselves. I say make them matchup with us.

Someone asked Jay Bilas about UNC-Duke on an ESPN chat today and he said that while UNC is the more talented team, Duke can definitely beat them. Bilas then went on to say that whoever wins will be the team who can best dictate the pace of the game and control the style in which the game is played. And I agree 110%.

i like that. I also like the thought of maybe playing zoubs against albany so he can get a some experience guarding smaller players and we can see what he is capable of in that situation (who cares who matches up with who in the albany game, ya know?)

WRT the bilas comment, in terms of dictating pace and style, doesn't UNC want to run just like us?

jimsumner
12-14-2007, 04:34 PM
Yes, UNC wants to run. But they also would like to pound the ball inside in the half-court offense. Duke would like to deny the passing lanes and keep UNC from pounding the ball inside and force them to attempt to score more from the perimeter.

CameronCrazie
12-14-2007, 04:39 PM
Pitt is going to run... we are going to run faster. I think the best replacement would be Jon or Taylor. Pitt has NO size and run just like us. Sounds good right? I say test the water with Taylor King. If he catches fire early then it will be HUGE in MSG. If he misses one or two early then fine. He has certainly earned the chance with his recent play (especially on defense).

YmoBeThere
12-14-2007, 06:09 PM
I think he meant it more figuratively as in "he's finding his game." He is also probably getting into game shape, but that has little do with his weight.

Understood, my comment was made very tongue in cheek...:p

JasonEvans
12-15-2007, 06:10 AM
Yes, UNC wants to run. But they also would like to pound the ball inside in the half-court offense. Duke would like to deny the passing lanes and keep UNC from pounding the ball inside and force them to attempt to score more from the perimeter.

Exactly, dictating style is not the same as merely running or not.

For Duke on defense, what we want to do is force the other team to set up their offense far from the basket. We want opposing guards to be giving up the ball with long passes and passing to players who are not in their usual/comfortable place on the floor. We like to force the opposing big-men to put the ball on the floor and take shots from places outside the lane. we force the oppising guards to take bad shots at uncomfortable angles and on the move.

On offense, Duke wants to spread the floor and slash to the basket or take open jumpers. We don't tend to dump the ball into the post unless our post-players are in excellent scoring position already. We don't rely on our post-guys to create their own shot with the ball in their hands the way Hasbro and some other big men do.

A big beefy team like Pitt is going to have real trouble figuring out how to guard Duke. Our slashers (Henderson, Scheyer, Nelson) are almost impossible to keeop out of the lane and are adept at hitting shots on the move (especially Henderson). Our big men can step out and create matchup nightmares on the perimeter if opposing big-men follow them out there because of our ability to hit the three (Singler and King) or drive (Singler again). What's more, when our big men step out it creates more room for the slashing guards. If Pitt goes zone, we bomb over it with Paulus, King, Scheyer, Singler, Nelson, and Henderon. I'll be honest, unless we are just stone cold from the outside, I am not sure how opposing teams stop us from getting points (aside from really slowing the game down). It will take superior defensive guards and mobile big-men. There are not many teams in the land who can do that.

--Jason "I tell ya, this team makes me all GGLC ;)" Evans

shadowfax336
12-15-2007, 06:44 AM
\ It will take superior defensive guards and mobile big-men. There are not many teams in the land who can do that.

--Jason "I tell ya, this team makes me all GGLC ;)" Evans

Yes but interestingly Pitt is one of the few teams in the country that has that combination. I'm waiting till after the Albany game (and after my finals end) to write stuff, but I grew up in Pittsburgh and had season tix for Pitt for 10 years so I still root for them against all but 1 team, and mobile bigs and superior defensive guards would describe this team very nicely. Not saying they have the talent to beat Duke, but they're going to be a very good test of how good Duke's offense is. (Except for the fact that the only guy they have who can really match up with Gerald, Keith Benjamin, comes off the bench, they're going to probably have to put Levance Fields or Mike Cook on him to start the game, and Fields is too short and Cook is too slow...)

loran16
12-15-2007, 08:40 AM
Exactly, dictating style is not the same as merely running or not.

For Duke on defense, what we want to do is force the other team to set up their offense far from the basket. We want opposing guards to be giving up the ball with long passes and passing to players who are not in their usual/comfortable place on the floor. We like to force the opposing big-men to put the ball on the floor and take shots from places outside the lane. we force the oppising guards to take bad shots at uncomfortable angles and on the move.

On offense, Duke wants to spread the floor and slash to the basket or take open jumpers. We don't tend to dump the ball into the post unless our post-players are in excellent scoring position already. We don't rely on our post-guys to create their own shot with the ball in their hands the way Hasbro and some other big men do.

A big beefy team like Pitt is going to have real trouble figuring out how to guard Duke. Our slashers (Henderson, Scheyer, Nelson) are almost impossible to keeop out of the lane and are adept at hitting shots on the move (especially Henderson). Our big men can step out and create matchup nightmares on the perimeter if opposing big-men follow them out there because of our ability to hit the three (Singler and King) or drive (Singler again). What's more, when our big men step out it creates more room for the slashing guards. If Pitt goes zone, we bomb over it with Paulus, King, Scheyer, Singler, Nelson, and Henderon. I'll be honest, unless we are just stone cold from the outside, I am not sure how opposing teams stop us from getting points (aside from really slowing the game down). It will take superior defensive guards and mobile big-men. There are not many teams in the land who can do that.

--Jason "I tell ya, this team makes me all GGLC ;)" Evans

As much as i love Scheyer, and he does drive this year, I think you can consider Singler to be a slasher more than Jon....Jon's more of a perimeter shooter who can drive on occasion and who's quick to the ball.

Course Singler does everything (Slash, play the post, Shoot the 3...)

AtlDuke72
12-15-2007, 05:38 PM
Pitt looked awfully strong today aginst Oklahoma State. The freshman Blair is a load and a half! It will be the toughest test to date by far. I expect that Pitt will dominate the boards and the test is whether they can keep up with all our shooters. IT is going to be an awesome game!