PDA

View Full Version : Who's Better This Year--ACC or Pac-10?



burnspbesq
12-10-2007, 06:42 PM
No games this week, so why not engage in some fun pointless speculation.

As of today's AP poll, each conference has seven schools either ranked in the Top 25 or in ORV.

If you score it like a cross-country meet, the Pac-10 wins, 79-82.

If you match those 14 schools up by ranking, you get the following matchups:

UNC (1) vs. UCLA (7)
Duke (6) vs. Washington State (8)
Clemson (15) vs. Oregon (16)
Miami (26) vs. Arizona (21)
BC (34) vs. USC (27)
State (T-39) vs. Stanford (30)
UVa (T-39) vs. Cal (37)

YMMV, of course, but if all of these hypothetical games are played at neutral sites I see one game I would expect to be won by the ACC team (UNC over UCLA), one tossup (Duke - Wazzu), and five games that I would expect to be won by the Pac-10 team.

Wouldn't this be more fun than the annual clubbing of the baby seals -- ERR -- the Big Ten?

Rip away, but before you rip me for rating Duke and Wazzu a tossup, at least find a recording of last week's Wazzu - Gonzaga game, and be prepared to explain how we score more than 60 points against that defense.

Nugget
12-10-2007, 07:24 PM
This is an unusually strong year for the Pac 10, so I wouldn't change things bc of it. Moreover, the key to the Big 10 Challenge (and the Big East Challenge before that) is not so much to fight it out for "the best" conference, but to get television ratings and publicity for the ACC in big TV and recruiting markets - neither of which the Pac 10 offers in nearly the same way.

Nevertheless, I think you are on target in how well you project the Pac 10 would fare this year.

Of the matchups you list, I would favor UNC over UCLA, Arizona over Miami, and USC over BC fairly easily.

I like Oregon over Clemson by a small margin.

I think Stanford is over-rated and would pick State to beat them, and I think Singletary alone would lead Virginia over a pretty bad Cal team.

I watched all of the Wash St.-Gonzaga game, and WSU is very good. But, Gonzaga missed alot of open jumpers, especially Austin Daye. I don't see WSU scoring much against us either, as they don't really have the break-down penetrators who cause us the most trouble. WSU's success is usually due to the fact that teams aren't willing to dig in and defend for the entire shot clock possession after possession. Duke is. I'd favor us over WSU.

On talent, the ACC would probably be favored in 2 of the last 3 (probably Washington-Florida St., ASU-Maryland and Oregon St.-Ga. Tech), so my guess is a challenge would come out 5-5 in what is a down year for the ACC.

I live in LA, so every year we hear about the East Coast Bias and how the Pac 10 gets no respect. But, this year is about as good as it can possibly get for the Pac 10.

Johnboy
12-10-2007, 07:27 PM
I think Stanford is over-rated and would pick State to beat them.

Would you pick ECU to beat Stanford, too? :D

Duke09
12-10-2007, 07:40 PM
be prepared to explain how we score more than 60 points against that defense.

I say we hit 21 3s. That should do the trick.

Ben63
12-10-2007, 08:01 PM
Why not an ACC-Pac10 challenge? ACC (overall) and Duke have never lost against the Big 10 in the event. It seems like a waste. ACC-Pac10 would be more competive and would look good to the selection committee in March.

DomerDevil
12-10-2007, 08:17 PM
Why not an ACC-Pac10 challenge? ACC (overall) and Duke have never lost against the Big 10 in the event. It seems like a waste. ACC-Pac10 would be more completive and would look good to the selection committee in March.

While the games look good on paper--this year, the logistics would be a nightmare. A set of East Coast teams vs, West Coast teams in, say, a week? The time around Thanksgiving would be a possibility, but with all the inter-sectional games of the various tournaments, I doubt that will happen. In December you hit exams and the Holidays. Then there's the start of conference play in January.

HumboldtDevil
12-10-2007, 08:23 PM
At first glance the top three matchups seem to be fairly even matchups with the others favoring the Pac-10, but it isn't that clear cut.

I think Carolina has a good shot to beat UCLA right now, but it would be a really good game. Could UNC score a lot? Could UCLA make it ugly? I like Carolina's balance and ability to score.

Duke beats Washington State, straight up. The Cougs play great defense and are a good team, but instead of worrying about how Duke could score 60+ against them someone needs to look at their results and tell me why the Devils would struggle at all with them. I'd predict Duke by 10-15 with the Devils scoring in the mid 70s.

Clemson-Oregon is a toss up. I know that Oregon has already lost at St. Mary's (now in the AP Poll), beat Kansas State on the road in OT and saw them struggle a bit with Utah at home. If Clemson avoids one of their horrible shooting games I think they win this with strong defense because Oregon doesn't play any.

This is where it gets tricky. The matchups listed are based on AP voting, but Virginia won at Arizona a couple weeks ago. If we're sticking with these games then I take Arizona in a game Miami keeps relatively close and USC over BC 41-40.

Does Stanford have Brook Lopez back in this imaginary game against State? If so I take Stanford in a really tight game. If not then I go with State, but I could see the Pack winning either way.

Cal seems much improved, but Virginia still has Singletary and won at AZ. Probably a good game that the Cavs squeak out.

I think I'd tinker around with the matchups a little bit if it were my call; if I were appointed president of the ACC/Pac-10 Challenge Committee. Keeping the first three I would switch three of the next four to:

- BC-Arizona, although I could cheat and say UVa-AZ just to give the ACC an edge based on the previous result.
- Virginia-USC
- State-Stanford, this one makes sense.
- Miami-Cal, both have gaudy records without any Top 25 wins, though Miami has beat Providence and VCU while Cal beat Mizzou, SDSU, and Nevada.

weezie
12-10-2007, 09:16 PM
ACC would put the hurt to the PAC. Totally, dudes!

Cali-Duke
12-10-2007, 10:47 PM
I could see UNC beating UCLA right now, but that is only because so many of UCLA's players have been injured. Collison just started playing again, Keefe was injured (don't know what his status is), and Michael Roll just started playing. For UCLA to have played so well with 3 players out of action, one of whom was a preseason All-American candidate, is unbelievable. Give them some time to heal and get used to playing with one another, and they will beat UNC.

BTW, when Lawson was out against OSU, UNC did not look like a final four team and seriously struggled in the first half (before OSU went on a drought). UCLA has been in the same position all season and have looked way better doing so.

darthur
12-10-2007, 11:18 PM
I strongly disagree with the statement that the Pac-10 is generally better than the Big 10. In recent memory, the Pac-10 is definitely stronger this year, and was definitely stronger in 2001. Most of the other years, I'd favor the Big 10. I live in California and the "east coast bias" is a load of hogwash - the Pac-10 just isn't that good a conference.

heath_harshman4
12-10-2007, 11:42 PM
well, I live in Tri-Cities,WA...about 1 1/2 hours from Pullman, WA...They call where I live COUG COUNTRY...its disgusting...

And all Duke would have to do to put up 60 on WSU is follow what Portland State did. They lost to WSU 60-72. And were down by just 5 deep into the 2nd half. This same PSU team lost to UCLA by 21 earlier this year...WSU is not as good as people say/think they are. They have no tough matchups until Conference play where it will show what kind of team they really are. I hope Duke plays them in the NCAA tourney so all of the WSU people down here will shut up.

Duke could beat WIZZU by at least 10 on a neutral site. 15-20 at Cameron.

As for the other PAC10 ACC Challenge games...


UNC vs. UCLA... IF Collison plays I like UCLA, if not UNC. So ill take UCLA
Duke vs. WSU... I think my point has been made.
Clemson vs. Oregon... I think I might actually take Clemson. Oregon has not dazzled me this year and WITH James Mays I think Clemson could take it.
also...

ZONA over MIAMI
USC over BC
and UVA over CAL...
Stanford over STATE...

so PAC10 wins 4-3...if only if only... *sigh*

hondoheel
12-11-2007, 12:07 AM
Ah, the Dry S---ties. We lived in Kennewick for about 6 months and on the northern edge of Richland (just a couple miles from Hanford) for about a year and a half. Don't miss that place one bit! What in the world are you doing living in that hole?

burnspbesq
12-11-2007, 12:36 AM
[Wazzu has] no tough matchups until Conference play ...

Umm, at Gonzaga?

Deslok
12-11-2007, 12:43 AM
No games this week, so why not engage in some fun pointless speculation.

As of today's AP poll, each conference has seven schools either ranked in the Top 25 or in ORV.

If you score it like a cross-country meet, the Pac-10 wins, 79-82.

If you match those 14 schools up by ranking, you get the following matchups:

UNC (1) vs. UCLA (7)
Duke (6) vs. Washington State (8)
Clemson (15) vs. Oregon (16)
Miami (26) vs. Arizona (21)
BC (34) vs. USC (27)
State (T-39) vs. Stanford (30)
UVa (T-39) vs. Cal (37)

YMMV, of course, but if all of these hypothetical games are played at neutral sites I see one game I would expect to be won by the ACC team (UNC over UCLA), one tossup (Duke - Wazzu), and five games that I would expect to be won by the Pac-10 team.

Wouldn't this be more fun than the annual clubbing of the baby seals -- ERR -- the Big Ten?

Rip away, but before you rip me for rating Duke and Wazzu a tossup, at least find a recording of last week's Wazzu - Gonzaga game, and be prepared to explain how we score more than 60 points against that defense.

I'd take the ACC in the first 2 games(Duke and UNC) right now, the UNC-UCLA game will be closer by the end of the season(young players getting more experience, injured guys getting back into flow with the team, etc). The rest of the games I'd be hard pressed to pick a winner on either side, as each team is capable of playing well, or looking pretty awful. Going into the season, I expected the Pac-10 to be better than the ACC, but I don't think the results really suggest that. They suggest the conferences are pretty even(I give the ACC the edge on matchups going from the top, since you'd end up taking the ACC's top 10 to do so).

dukemomLA
12-11-2007, 03:48 AM
So as an L.A. person (currently displaced from the Best Coast), I have seen (either in person or on the tele) lots of Pac-10 games.

Yes, the Pac-10 is certainly up this year. But still, I give the ACC the edge -- and perhaps more than an edge. The Pac-10 ALWAYS has a scenario of TOP and BOTTOM -- and very rarely are there any upsets. (sigh). On the other hand the ferocity and competitiveness in the ACC makes every night of play a possibility for either team.

The media's tout over the last several years of the dominance of the Pac-10 is (IMO) a joke. This isn't the best conference. This year, last year, the year before, etc. And NO it is not 'east coast bias.' Every year there are 3-4 Pac-10 teams who truly deserve our kudos (if that many) But that's it. This year -- UCLA, UW, Oregon (somewhat), USC (somewhat), but....to even compare this conference overall to the ACC is ridiculous.

dukerev
12-11-2007, 09:24 AM
Personally, I'd prefer an ACC-SEC challenge. The SEC is more known as a football conference, but year-in and year-out, they produce some really good basketball. It would also make a lot more sense geographically.

heath_harshman4
12-11-2007, 10:19 AM
Umm, at Gonzaga?

I meant from here on out. sorry i didnt specify. Even if you count the whole season, that game is the only real tough on up until conference play.

heath_harshman4
12-11-2007, 10:20 AM
Ah, the Dry S---ties. We lived in Kennewick for about 6 months and on the northern edge of Richland (just a couple miles from Hanford) for about a year and a half. Don't miss that place one bit! What in the world are you doing living in that hole?


haha, yup the Dry *cough*... You know you lived in either WA or OR if you know that nick-name for the TRI. Its not a totally bad place. Good population, stuff to do, good high-school sports. Its a fun place for me ( a 17 year old junior at Hanford High, GO FALCONS) to live. But I plan on getting a degree in either journalism or broadcasting and becoming a member of the dreaded sports media....haha

wilson
12-11-2007, 10:24 AM
While the games look good on paper--this year, the logistics would be a nightmare. A set of East Coast teams vs, West Coast teams in, say, a week? The time around Thanksgiving would be a possibility, but with all the inter-sectional games of the various tournaments, I doubt that will happen. In December you hit exams and the Holidays. Then there's the start of conference play in January.

So just play it in Kansas City.;)

gw67
12-11-2007, 11:15 AM
Nugget - Great to hear from a DBR poster from the past, particularly, one who is knowledgeable about college basketball. I've seen UCLA, Stanford, Arizona and WSU play on the tube. I think the Bruins will be an outstanding team when they get all their players back. Arizona has two or three players who would start for Duke but they seem to always come up a little short in close games. WSU sits on the ball, has a good backcourt and plays tough defense but I can't see them beating a Duke team that has so many weapons. I expect Stanford to be better when the other Lopez shows up but their perimeter players are nothing to write home about.

I was surprised by your low opinion of Cal. Anderson was a good player last year and they have some size. USC has some talent as does Oregon and Washington.

I know that it is early but Sagarin shows the PAC-10 as the highest rated conference with the ACC a close second.

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cbsend.htm

gw67

Indoor66
12-11-2007, 04:09 PM
Arizona has two or three players who would start for Duke but they seem to always come up a little short in close games.

Then why do you think they would start for Duke?

Duvall
12-11-2007, 04:19 PM
Then why do you think they would start for Duke?

What current Duke player has performed well in a big game to date? This team is far too young to make such judgments.

Indoor66
12-11-2007, 04:23 PM
What current Duke player has performed well in a big game to date? This team is far too young to make such judgments.

That is not responsive to my question relating to your assertion. Which players from Arizona would start on the present Duke team? You said three. Which ones would start and who would Duke sit down?

Classof06
12-11-2007, 04:56 PM
It's still early in the season, but I have to give the nod to the Pac-10 and to be honest, it's really not even that close. My reasoning is that the ACC is just so young this year, while the Pac-10 returns a core of pretty experienced teams. Besides Carolina and Duke, what other ACC team stands out? Clemson is supposed to be good and once they get healthy they could make some noise, but NC State was picked to finish 3rd in the ACC (2nd by a decent amount of people) and they're a blatantly average team.

Out of the 7 matchups listed on the 1st post, I see the ACC winning 3 at best; Duke over Wazzu (which would be a phenomenal game, btw), UVA over Cal and maybe State over Stanford. IMO, that's it. I think UCLA (at least when healthy) is better than UNC because with Love, Aboya and Mata-Real, I believe they'll come as close as you can to neutralizing Hansbrough. I don't see Lawson dominating against Collison and between Shipp, Mbah-A-Moute and Westbrook, they're as good (and certainly more experienced) than Ginyard, Green and Ellington on the wings. I'd put my money on UCLA with a lot of confidence, actually. If you haven't figured it out, I believe UCLA will win it all this year; you don't get to 2 straight Final 4s by mistake.

UCLA, USC, Arizona, Oregon and Wazzu are all extremely strong teams and each of those teams (except maybe Oregon) could give both Duke and UNC pretty good games at the least; USC played UNC very well last year in the Sweet 16 without Mayo. Basically, outside of Duke and UNC, I haven't seen anything from the ACC to make me believe we'd match up with the Pac-10 across the board.

Duvall
12-11-2007, 05:04 PM
That is not responsive to my question relating to your assertion. Which players from Arizona would start on the present Duke team? You said three. Which ones would start and who would Duke sit down?

Not my assertion.

Indoor66
12-11-2007, 05:33 PM
Not my assertion.

Oops, sorry. It was gw67.

gw67
12-11-2007, 08:35 PM
Indoor66 - Let me make a couple of things clear. First, the Devils are better than Zona, primarily, because they have more quality players and they play better team defense. Second, I stated that two or three of their players would start for Duke.

As to those players, I would take Jordan Hill as one of the frontcourt players. He is a better rebounder,scorer and shot blocker than Thomas. That leaves Bayless and Budinger. Like Singler, Bayless is one of the top freshmen in the country while Budinger is perhaps the best all around small forward in the country. The Duke perimeter players are outstanding but so are Bayless and Budinger. Both are good shooters, passers, ballhandlers and each has a good feel for the game. Besides their basketball ability, Budinger is tall, can run and jump while Bayless's physical talents are extraordinary. I think that at least one of these players would start for the Devils.

gw67

YmoBeThere
12-15-2007, 08:46 PM
Okay, maybe Nebraska isn't bad, but...another Pac-10 OOC loss.