PDA

View Full Version : When has there been talk of a fix being in?



calltheobvious
12-08-2007, 11:40 PM
Hi all,

I'm doing some brainingstorming for a blog post and I'm trying to come up with a list of instances in sport when there was talk of a possible fix, e.g. Lakers-Kings Game 6, Ravens-Patriots 2007; or just general complaints of preferential treatment, e.g. Michael, Shaq, or, hmmm, who else...maybe Maryland?

Advanced thanks for all of your ideas.

tombrady
12-09-2007, 12:25 AM
Hi all,

I'm doing some brainingstorming for a blog post and I'm trying to come up with a list of instances in sport when there was talk of a possible fix, e.g. Lakers-Kings Game 6, Ravens-Patriots 2007; or just general complaints of preferential treatment, e.g. Michael, Shaq, or, hmmm, who else...maybe Maryland?

Advanced thanks for all of your ideas.

wait what? ravens-patriots 2007? are you kidding me? those calls were all correct, as the NFL (and anyone with a brain) announced afterward.

perhaps you meant colts-patriots 2007?

calltheobvious
12-09-2007, 12:39 AM
wait what? ravens-patriots 2007? are you kidding me? those calls were all correct, as the NFL (and anyone with a brain) announced afterward.

perhaps you meant colts-patriots 2007?

Slow down there, Cowboy. As is apparent in some of my posts in other threads, I am on record as being very high on the performance of the officiating crew Monday night. However, ESPN's ad nauseum coverage Tuesday and Wednesday of the comments of Mason, McAllister, Scott, and Rolle did nothing but stoke the flames of a pro-Patriots NFL conspiracy.

prefan21
12-09-2007, 03:04 AM
Well if you listen to Billy Packer's color commentary, Duke vs. Arizona, 2001. ;)

ESPN also stirred up "he's getting Jordan calls" about Dwayne Wade vs. the Dallas Mavericks in the 2006 finals. I don't think it was intentional, but all the calls did seem to go his way.

JasonEvans
12-09-2007, 08:33 AM
I hate to bring it up but there are a fair number of folks who think that UNLV was shaving points in 1991 against Duke and just let the game get away from them.

Or are you only talking about the refs being in on the fix? If you are talking about refs, you may want to consult the many, many articles from this summer when the Tim Donaghy case was getting a TON of publicity.

--Jason

Channing
12-09-2007, 09:58 AM
there was talk recently that Nikolay Davodenko (sp?) might have thrown matches in tennis.

throatybeard
12-09-2007, 08:57 PM
I seem to remember a degree of hullabaloo surrounding the Lakers when they were good 2000-2004.

calltheobvious
12-10-2007, 01:56 PM
I hate to bring it up but there are a fair number of folks who think that UNLV was shaving points in 1991 against Duke and just let the game get away from them.

Or are you only talking about the refs being in on the fix? If you are talking about refs, you may want to consult the many, many articles from this summer when the Tim Donaghy case was getting a TON of publicity.

--Jason

Hi Jason,

I'm definitely interested in situations in which the officials have been perceived to have been on the take. I'm not terribly interested in whether players have shaved points or thrown games, except to say that those who think UNLV was shaving in 1991 are just hating. What was the spread there, maybe 8 or 10? (Now that, I think, is an interesting question, especially given that Duke was a monster 12- or 13-pt chalk against UConn in '99, IIRC).

Yeah, I guess I should have written that I hadn't forgotten about Donaghy. I certainly don't have anything new to add, except that I find it interesting that people periodically make these accusations, and they never pan out. Only when no one suspected anything (TD case) does anything turn out to have been going on. That should mean something to most people, but...

calltheobvious
12-10-2007, 01:59 PM
I seem to remember a degree of hullabaloo surrounding the Lakers when they were good 2000-2004.

Yeah, the big brouhaha (even Ralph Nader got involved, calling for the league to investigate) was over the 4th quarter of the 2002 Game 6 against the Kings, in which the ft disparity was something like 24-7 in favor of the Lakers. I'm currently scouring some Lakers message boards to see if I can get a DVD of the game. If anyone in these parts has one, I'd be happy to compensate you for your time, materials, and postage.

wilson
12-10-2007, 02:02 PM
I hate to bring it up but there are a fair number of folks who think that UNLV was shaving points in 1991 against Duke and just let the game get away from them.

--Jason

I'm sure you know this, but there are also some folks (including a dude named Greg Anthony and some other guy named Jerry Tarkanian) who say that UNLV was worried about Duke for the entire 1990-91 season, knowing they'd match up well with the Runnin' Rebels and would also be hungry for revenge. Also, those guys say the loss "still haunts" them.
Come to think of it, I perhaps (probably?) found that article via this board. I'm not disparaging your comment, just those who actually buy that argument.

Cavlaw
12-10-2007, 03:16 PM
Hi Jason,

I'm definitely interested in situations in which the officials have been perceived to have been on the take. I'm not terribly interested in whether players have shaved points or thrown games, except to say that those who think UNLV was shaving in 1991 are just hating. What was the spread there, maybe 8 or 10? (Now that, I think, is an interesting question, especially given that Duke was a monster 12- or 13-pt chalk against UConn in '99, IIRC).

Yeah, I guess I should have written that I hadn't forgotten about Donaghy. I certainly don't have anything new to add, except that I find it interesting that people periodically make these accusations, and they never pan out. Only when no one suspected anything (TD case) does anything turn out to have been going on. That should mean something to most people, but...
At the risk of getting on-topic, I thought the officiating in the '99 final against UConn was absolutely awful wrt to plays in the paint. Jake Voskul was basically allowed to use Elton as a backyard climbing set. I'm irritated by that game to this day.

hurleyfor3
12-10-2007, 03:55 PM
The problem with '91 Duke/Unlv conspiracy theories is there was no way to bet on it in a manner in which fixing the game would have been profitable. The legal sportsbooks never had a line on the game, as they cannot for Nevada sports teams or for any events held in the state.

Offshore Internet casinos didn't exist yet in 1991, and UK bookies have never cared about our little basketball tournament.

That leaves illegal bookies, and the only one that would take a bet big enough to make a fix worth it is the mob. You wanna cross up the mob to win a few grand on a college basketball game? Go ahead.

Ever notice how point-shaving turns up at places such as Arizona State and Northwestern, which are way off the national radar? It's easier to conceal Northwestern losing to the spread than shaving one of the highest-profile college basketball games in history. Fixers aren't dumb.

The argument that someone wanted Unlv out so that the championship game would be legally bettable doesn't hold water either, for reasons I'll let readers figure out.

dukie8
12-10-2007, 08:32 PM
I'm sure you know this, but there are also some folks (including a dude named Greg Anthony and some other guy named Jerry Tarkanian) who say that UNLV was worried about Duke for the entire 1990-91 season, knowing they'd match up well with the Runnin' Rebels and would also be hungry for revenge. Also, those guys say the loss "still haunts" them.
Come to think of it, I perhaps (probably?) found that article via this board. I'm not disparaging your comment, just those who actually buy that argument.

do you honestly believe that tark and anthony were "worried" about how lj was going to match up against koubek?

dukie8
12-10-2007, 08:48 PM
The problem with '91 Duke/Unlv conspiracy theories is there was no way to bet on it in a manner in which fixing the game would have been profitable. The legal sportsbooks never had a line on the game, as they cannot for Nevada sports teams or for any events held in the state.

Offshore Internet casinos didn't exist yet in 1991, and UK bookies have never cared about our little basketball tournament.

That leaves illegal bookies, and the only one that would take a bet big enough to make a fix worth it is the mob. You wanna cross up the mob to win a few grand on a college basketball game? Go ahead.

Ever notice how point-shaving turns up at places such as Arizona State and Northwestern, which are way off the national radar? It's easier to conceal Northwestern losing to the spread than shaving one of the highest-profile college basketball games in history. Fixers aren't dumb.

The argument that someone wanted Unlv out so that the championship game would be legally bettable doesn't hold water either, for reasons I'll let readers figure out.

i'm having a very hard time following the logic of this post. are you claiming that the only gambling that went on in 1991 was mob related and nobody would screw the mob so it never could have happened?

first, not all gambling is mob related. second, who says that it wasn't the mob doing the fixing? third, why do you think that nobody would screw the mob or that 1 illegal group wouldn't rip-off another? also, organized crime comes in all sorts of flavors so who is to say that it wasn't the chinese mob placing big bets with the russian mob. i'm not saying that the game was fixed (i have no idea) but your analysis doesn't hold much water.

also, the cases of fixing that you know about are a very small sampling of what actually goes on so i wouldn't jump to any conclusions about fixing only going on off the beaten path. it very well could be that the best fixers (ie, the ones that don't get caught) are involved with big games and big cities. afterall, that's where most of the money, gambling and bookies are. we now know that there was a lot of fixing going on in the nba and that all was pretty high profile (and unknown until recently).

ugadevil
12-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Here's the ones that were fixed:
Duke vs. VCU (Scheyer was punched the in the face!)
Duke vs. LSU (J.J. was held all game)
Duke vs. Mich. State (Daniel Ewing probably got a bs technical)
Duke vs. UConn (Horvath had 3 fouls before he even entered the game)
Duke vs. Kansas (Collison went over everyone's back)
Duke vs. Indiana (Matt Christensen is still screaming at the refs)

Quite obvious the refs don't want Duke to win :cool:

hurleyfor3
12-11-2007, 09:41 AM
are you claiming that the only gambling that went on in 1991 was mob related and nobody would screw the mob so it never could have happened?


I'm not claiming anything like that. I'm essentially saying for the amount of money one could make off fixing a game that had no official point spread in the first place, there are many, many better games to fix. Why not Unlv against Georgetown in the second round? Why not some February game that wouldn't have been on teevee?

One mob is not going to screw with another (to put it that way) by fixing a basketball game for a few grand. They have better ways of getting their point across.

BTW, the unofficial line on the 1990 championship game was Unlv -4, but I've never heard of a line on the '91 game.

wilson
12-11-2007, 10:08 AM
do you honestly believe that tark and anthony were "worried" about how lj was going to match up against koubek?

Yes. See this thread:

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5041&highlight=tarkanian