Tim Floyd/O.J. Mayo

[CMS2478]

I just wanted to ask the question..........is anyone else as disgusted as I am everytime you watch USC play? I have lost any respect that I may have had for Tim Floyd as a coach and pretty much never had any respect for Mayo to begin with. He is the defintion of someone that is just auditioning for the NBA and cares about nobody but himself. In the USC/Memphis game last night I would just watch Mayo on defense and it was ridiculous watching him do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! The only time he puts forth any effort is when he has the ball. Tim Floyd must not have any control over Mayo to allow that to go on. I really don't know why I get so upset over this because it's not like he plays for Duke or anything, but I love the game and hate to see people play it the way he does. Thank you for allowing me to vent and have a good day!!!:D

[SilkyJ]

I just wanted to ask the question..........is anyone else as disgusted as I am everytime you watch USC play? I have lost any respect that I may have had for Tim Floyd as a coach and pretty much never had any respect for Mayo to begin with. He is the defintion of someone that is just auditioning for the NBA and cares about nobody but himself. In the USC/Memphis game last night I would just watch Mayo on defense and it was ridiculous watching him do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!! The only time he puts forth any effort is when he has the ball. Tim Floyd must not have any control over Mayo to allow that to go on. I really don't know why I get so upset over this because it's not like he plays for Duke or anything, but I love the game and hate to see people play it the way he does. Thank you for allowing me to vent and have a good day!!!:D

I'm pretty disgusted by it, but its kinda old news, ya know? We knew he was going to be like this when he was a soph in HS.

I did watch a big chunk of the game last night with a couple friends and we couldn't decide who we were rooting for. Calipari is a sleez and is generally thought to be pretty dirty when it comes to recruiting (which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I hate that stuff and have no respect for coaches, programs, or fans affiliated with crap like that) but on the other hand mayo is such a jerk. I live in San Francisco now so I have semi-adopted stanford as the california team that I kind of root for, and this is for multiple reasons not the least of which is that there are so damn many USC fans EVERYWHERE and they are so obnoxious. So I ended up rooting for memphis...

[CMS2478]

I'm pretty disgusted by it, but its kinda old news, ya know? We knew he was going to be like this when he was a soph in HS.

I did watch a big chunk of the game last night with a couple friends and we couldn't decide who we were rooting for. Calipari is a sleez and is generally thought to be pretty dirty when it comes to recruiting (which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine. I hate that stuff and have no respect for coaches, programs, or fans affiliated with crap like that) but on the other hand mayo is such a jerk. I live in San Francisco now so I have semi-adopted stanford as the california team that I kind of root for, and this is for multiple reasons not the least of which is that there are so damn many USC fans EVERYWHERE and they are so obnoxious. So I ended up rooting for memphis...

You are right that is old news, which is why I don't know why I let it to continue to bother me. I mean, I don't dwell on other things like I do this one. Mayo justs really gets under my skin.:(

[shadowfax336]

yeah I couldn't bring myself to root for either team either, I was rooting against Memphis slightly more because if they don't lose sometime soon they're going to end up spending the whole season ranked #1 or 2while not playing anybody, while USC is going to have plenty of chances to be exposed later on...

[Wander]

What are you guys talking about? Memphis' starting backcourt is one of the best in the country. Rose averages 16 points and CDR averages 20 points. They were held to 9 point and 10 points last night, and that includes having five extra minutes. How can you possibly say Mayo did nothing on defense? That doesn't come anywhere close to making sense.

[kexman]

USC played a triangle and 2 on the two guards basically taking them out of the game. Their low point production didn't have much to do with Mayo.

[Wander]

USC played a triangle and 2 on the two guards basically taking them out of the game. Their low point production didn't have much to do with Mayo.

And Mayo was part of the "2". He played very well defensively and he played within the defensive game plan of his coach. I honestly have no idea how someone can say he did "absolutely nothing" on defense last night.

[houstondukie]

What game were you guys watching last night? Mayo played very hard on defense last night and was a big reason why Rose and Douglas-Roberts were held much lower than their season averages. Heck, Memphis needed overtime just to break 60 points. Say what you want about Mayo, but based on last nights game alone, Mayo showed some maturity. I didn't see him force a bad shot until the last 5 min of the game, he was cheering his teamates after a good play, and he played hard on defense.

[Wander]

Just to add one more thing, I am not a USC or an OJ Mayo fan. I am, however, a fan of not being intellectually lazy and I'm a fan of not repeating popular myths that don't have any truth to them.

Not only did Mayo not do "absolutely nothing" on defense last night, but, in my opinion, he played outstanding defense. I've watched him and USC a few times this year and I think Mayo is a very good defender. I do think that he needs to cut down on his turnovers and work on his shot selection, but his defense looks great to me. It's also worth noting that USC is one of the better defensive teams in the country - that wouldn't be the case if one of USC's star players didn't make an effort to play defense.

[SilkyJ]

i should clarify and just say that I think oj mayo is a jerk and i've been disgusted by his attitude for years, and I wasn't commenting on last night's game as much.

In terms of last night's game, I wasn't really paying attention to his defense so i can't comment too much, although he did seem to stand around on offense a bunch when he didn't have the ball in his hands. I also felt like he would step up his play, on either end, when he was guarded or guarding rose 1on1 and I don't think I need to explain why...

also, do you think its a "myth" that oj mayo is a selfish jerk who is auditioning for the NBA?

[NW Indiana Dukie]

I knew he was selfish and a gunner going into last night's game and he did not dissappoint me there. He forced plenty of shots and did not move well without the ball. With that being said, I was actually impressed with Mayo last night. I thought he played the defensive game plan very well. For the most part, he moved his feetl, played the passing lanes, hustled, and did a great job of keeping the ball out of Rose's hands. Once Rose gave the ball up, Mayo was
"in his shorts" and made him work his butt off just to get the ball back.

We all know Mayo is one and done. I was unsure of his defensive ability but last night he really showed me something.

PS: I am not a Mayo fan

[Wander]

also, do you think its a "myth" that oj mayo is a selfish jerk who is auditioning for the NBA?

I think it is a complete myth that Mayo doesn't play defense at USC. So far, he's been a very good defender.

This is a summary of what I think of Mayo:
> He's a very good defender and a very good scorer.
> He needs to work on cutting down turnovers and his shot selection.
> His team is better because he's on it.
> The hype/media coverage surrounding him has been absurd.
> He will be in the NBA next year.
> He has done some stupid things in the past.
> He is a very good college basketball player.

I don't really have a comment or opinion on whether or not Mayo is selfish, or a jerk, or auditioning for the NBA. Those things are too opinion-based for me.

[SilkyJ]

I don't really have a comment or opinion on whether or not Mayo is selfish, or a jerk, or auditioning for the NBA.
Those things are too opinion-based for me.

fair enough, but they aren't for me! IMHO mayo is a ballhog and a gunner (he is improving there though) and I have heard almost no praise of him as a person, but have heard quite often that he is and always has been "too cool for school" amongst other things. no rumor mongering allowed, so I'll stop there, but I think he's a jerk.

no doubt his team is better b/c he is on it, though...

[socaldukie]

I've seen USC a few times this year. I am by no means a fan of anything USC related. And, I have a particular dislike for OJ Mayo (this was all before his preseason fight with a teammate). BUT, I will tell you this. They can be a very dangerous team if they continue to show defensive intensity. The defensive effort the last 2 games (vs Kansas & Memphis) were impressive and not wholly expected. Floyd's first official practices this year meant rolling out the balls and letting the team play streetball, including their opening game abroad. Part of of this was due to the limited number of players due to injury. So playing the way they did was impressive. Playing two top 5 teams in 3 days on opposite coasts is not an easy task. They should have won last night and they very easily could have beaten Kansas as well. It will be very intersting to watch this team in a very tough PAC-10.

Mayo played very well on the defensive end last night. I still wait for him to implode at some point this season. Maybe after several grind it out conference losses (by 2-3 points) he'll show his true self...

[burnspbesq]

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

[juise]

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates...

Ummm... I must have missed something. Has there been any discussion of Mayo that went beyond his play during games? Your post is the first time I've seen Hackett's name.

[SilkyJ]

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

Get a clue.

don't be so rude in your posts, we're supposed to keep things friendly around here.

also, your post has little do to with what we are talking about, and frankly I don't even know (or care) who this guy hackett is. no one has any idea what you are talking about...so maybe you should get a clue?

[ugadevil]

also, your post has little do to with what we are talking about, and frankly I don't even know (or care) who this guy hackett is. no one has any idea what you are talking about...so maybe you should get a clue?


I'm not sure but is Hackett the teammate that Mayo allegedly got in a fight with?

[SilkyJ]

I'm not sure but is Hackett the teammate that Mayo allegedly got in a fight with?

that's my guess, but I still don't give a hoot. I didn't even know mayo got in a fight with someone until it was brought up here...

[kydevil]

I'm not sure but is Hackett the teammate that Mayo allegedly got in a fight with?

Yes, as far as I know.

Just my opinion but the times I have watched Mayo he has played pretty hard on defense.

[CMS2478]

Yes, as far as I know.

Just my opinion but the times I have watched Mayo he has played pretty hard on defense.

Granted I am not a USC fan and have only seen one of their games......BUT the one game that I did watch I saw numerous times where Mayo didn't get to shoot the ball on offense and failed to even run back on defense while the opposing team was breaking towards the other end. He does quite a bit of "standing around" on offense and defense from what I can tell, but many of you are saying he plays hard defense. I sure haven't seen it, but maybe I should withhold judgement until I see him play more. But I do know I saw possessions that he was not giving 100% on either end.

[socaldukie]

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

Get a clue.

Mayo's numbers
FG -43% he is 6th on the team and 4th among starters.
He is shooting 37.5% on threes.
Assists - 25 TOs - 38
He has hoisted 33% of his teams FGA, next closest is 14.6%.

My gut tells me he is not letting the game come to him as much as you would like to believe. He is not taking what is available in the context of the offense. He is the focus of the offense.

[BlueDevilBaby]

He does quite a bit of "standing around" on offense and defense from what I can tell, but many of you are saying he plays hard defense. I sure haven't seen it, but maybe I should withhold judgement until I see him play more. But I do know I saw possessions that he was not giving 100% on either end.

I've watched three of USC's games during this young season and, IMO, your judgment is accurate. He was criticized more than once by commentators for not watching where the ball was on defense, and he barely moves on the offensive end. Will be interesting to see if there is any difference toward the end of the season.

[Classof06]

Just to add one more thing, I am not a USC or an OJ Mayo fan. I am, however, a fan of not being intellectually lazy and I'm a fan of not repeating popular myths that don't have any truth to them.

Not only did Mayo not do "absolutely nothing" on defense last night, but, in my opinion, he played outstanding defense. I've watched him and USC a few times this year and I think Mayo is a very good defender. I do think that he needs to cut down on his turnovers and work on his shot selection, but his defense looks great to me. It's also worth noting that USC is one of the better defensive teams in the country - that wouldn't be the case if one of USC's star players didn't make an effort to play defense.

Yeah, what in the hell are these guys talking about? Mayo played GREAT defense on Derrick Rose two nights ago. Listen, the kid doesn't have the best reputation in college basketball, but he's bought into the team concept at USC. The Memphis game is the 3rd time I've seen Mayo play in college and I was very impressed. Despite the fact that the game was cracked up to be Mayo vs. Rose, OJ did a great job of staying within the framework of the offense and not turning it into a 1-on-1 show. I honestly don't know which game you guys were watching. I like the way Mayo seems to be maturing and I think it's something others should laud as well..

After watching them play the other night, there's not a doubt in my mind that USC is one of the 15 best teams in America. You can call me crazy but if they can keep Taj Gibson out of foul trouble, they can play with anybody. This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

[Classof06]

There is an appalling double standard at work where Mayo is concerned.

Substitute "Paulus" and "Scheyer" for "Mayo" and "Hackett" in the stories about Hackett's injury. Would y'all be so eager to assume that the official story was BS? No, you wouldn't.

Forget about Mayo. Daniel Hackett has always been a model citizen. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Hackett would lie about what happened.

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

Get a clue.

Right on. I have no connection to Mayo or USC but I'm so shocked by the posts I've seen on this thread, I have to comment again. You guys are really getting after Mayo unfairly. We've all "heard" about the stuff that went on with him in HS, but you can only go by what you see. And what I've seen in 3 of his games is a kid who is not putting himself above the team, who listens to his coaches and does what is asked of him; and I've watched Mayo's every single move when I see USC games on TV. Don't prejudge this kid based off of what you've heard on recruiting websites. Would you like to be judged on the things you supposedly did when you were 17? I know I wouldn't.

For the amount of non-warranted grief that Duke kids get, you Duke fans bashing Mayo should be ashamed of yourselves. In fact, now that we mention Duke, I'll say that Mayo's body language on TV looks a lot better than McRoberts' ever did.

Mayo will be on ESPN's E:60 next Tuesday. It looks like a lot of you should probably tune in.

[Wander]

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying ClassOf06 but the problem is that Taj Gibson has, to put it bluntly, sucked this year. I don't know why he isn't playing as well as he did last year and getting in foul trouble every game now. If he can get back to his previous form and stop fouling though then I agree USC is a top 15 team. Even with him being less than great, they played Kansas and Memphis really tough and that's impressive. I suspect this problem will improve by the end of the year and they'll be really dangerous in March.

[slower]

that's my guess, but I still don't give a hoot. I didn't even know mayo got in a fight with someone until it was brought up here...

Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

[juise]

Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

[slower]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

I wasn't talking about MAYO being taken to task. Here's the original quote:

"also, your post has little do to with what we are talking about, and frankly I don't even know (or care) who this guy hackett is. no one has any idea what you are talking about...so maybe you should get a clue?"

Person #1 told Person #2 that "no one has any idea what you are talking about (the "fight" between Mayo and Hackett)...so maybe you should get a clue?". In fact, I (and hopefully many others) knew exactly what Person #2 was talking about. I believe the statement "maybe you should get a clue" is just as much an example of "getting personal" as anything I said.

I don't care for Mayo personally. Are you now clear on what I meant?

[juise]

Are you now clear on what I meant?

Yeah, thanks for clearing that up.

[shadowfax336]

I don't know about Mayo's D, I've only seen about half of a USC game this year, but I thought this was interesting from ken pomeroy's site
http://www.kenpom.com/leaders.php?c=PctShots

This is the stat of players who take the greatest percentage of their teams shots when they're in the game. Predictably the top 15 or so names are always nobodies, decent players stuck on bad teams, or gunners who are sinking their teams chances. I was curious to see who would be the first "name" to come up, the first player from a big team who took a disproportionate amount of his teams shots when he's on the floor. Given where this is posted, I doubt its hard to guess who it was....

Interestingly, and also somewhat unsurprising, Gerald is the guy who takes the most shots when he's on the floor on our team, and his rate is 85th in the nation...

Not saying its undeserved, but still an interesting stat

[juise]

Interestingly, and also somewhat unsurprising, Gerald is the guy who takes the most shots when he's on the floor on our team, and his rate is 85th in the nation...

I'm curious about how Ken makes that calculation. According to GoDuke, Gerald has taken 85 shots (FG attempts) and the team has taken 472 attempts. That comes out to 18%, where Ken says 32.3%. There must be an adjustment I'm missing somewhere.

[dukie8]

By all accounts, Mayo has not exhibited any of the bad behaviors that one might typically expect of a one-and-done case. He goes to class, does his work, gets along well with teammates, and appears to work hard on and take pride in his defense. With a handful of exceptions, he has been good about letting the game come to him and taking what's available in the context of the offense.

i very much disagree. in his last 2 games, which were against the 2 best teams usc has played this year, he has shot 6-21 and 6-20. gunning from all over the place and hogging the ball are EXACTLY what i would expect from a one-and-done case. moreover, how do you have any idea that he goes to class and does his work? even if he does right now, let's see how much class he goes to after exams this semester. lastly, punching out a teammate isn't exactly indicative of someone who "gets along well with teammates."

[dukie8]

After watching them play the other night, there's not a doubt in my mind that USC is one of the 15 best teams in America. You can call me crazy but if they can keep Taj Gibson out of foul trouble, they can play with anybody. This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

are aware that usc lost its THREE top scorers from last year (young, stewart and pruitt)? the team this year, other than gibson, has very little in common with last year's sweet 16 team so i'm not sure why you are implying that this team is even remotely similar.

this team has 1st or 2nd round upset written all over it and losing to mercer at home simply was a precursor to it.

[shadowfax336]

Its percentages of the shots taken while a player is in the game, not percent of overall shots taken. It basically adjusts for playing time, which is why Taylor King is second on our team in this stat, despite taking less shots than some other players. When he is out there we get him shots

[shadowfax336]

King is actually first on our team, he just doesn't play enough to qualify to be among the national leaders

[juise]

Its percentages of the shots taken while a player is in the game, not percent of overall shots taken. It basically adjusts for playing time, which is why Taylor King is second on our team in this stat, despite taking less shots than some other players. When he is out there we get him shots

Makes sense now... thanks.

[Wander]

this team has 1st or 2nd round upset written all over it and losing to mercer at home simply was a precursor to it.

They were playing without two of their best players. If Duke lost to New Mexico State when Henderson and Scheyer were out would we have first round upset written all over us? They should still beat Mercer at home, but using that one game as an example of why USC's going to be upset in the first round is a little ridiculous.

[SilkyJ]

Yeah, what in the hell are these guys talking about? Mayo played GREAT defense on Derrick Rose two nights ago.

I agree with that, but as I said I think there's a reason for that, which is that he wanted to win the "Mayo vs. Rose" matchup for his own hype...

When he wasn't guarding rose he wasn't playing as hard on defense, in my opinion.


This team made the Sweet 16 last year without Mayo, Jefferson and Angelo Johnson who all played significant minutes against Memphis. I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

you may be right, but that sweet 16 team lost pruitt and young, two REALLY talented players. on paper I agree, but we will see. I'm still waiting for a midseason blowup from mayo.


You guys are really getting after Mayo unfairly. We've all "heard" about the stuff that went on with him in HS, but you can only go by what you see.

I can go by whatever I like and I've heard enough about mayo for me to draw conclusions with regard to his attitude and personality.



Mayo will be on ESPN's E:60 next Tuesday. It looks like a lot of you should probably tune in.

ha. no thanks.


Really? I thought that the alleged "fight" with Hackett was fairly common knowledge. It seems rather ironic that someone should be taken to task just because YOU aren't up to speed on national basketball knowledge.

I was taking him to task for bringing it up at all because it was irrelevant to our conversation. as juise said below, i was commenting on his (mayo's) play and attitude on the court.

not to mention (and I could be way wrong here, but like I said, I hadn't heard of a fight and my brief research yielded the following) it wasn't really a fight and no one really knows what happened other than the people that were at that practice. the guy got an elbow from mayo during practice, and what I read said it easily could have been accidental. i also didn't hear anything about punches being thrown, people shoving each other, or hackett "fighting" back. the only thing I read said hackett got an elbow from mayo during practice.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here!

The only reason that Mayo has been"taken to task" in this thread is for his on-court play. I personally am not sure whether I agree with those criticisms, as I have barely seen him play for USC. Regardless, nobody is talking anything other than offense and defense. Let's not get personal.

a thank you



Person #1 told Person #2 that "no one has any idea what you are talking about (the "fight" between Mayo and Hackett)...so maybe you should get a clue?". In fact, I (and hopefully many others) knew exactly what Person #2 was talking about. I believe the statement "maybe you should get a clue" is just as much an example of "getting personal" as anything I said.

I don't care for Mayo personally. Are you now clear on what I meant?

just to be clear, the guy told me to "get a clue" and then what you quoted above was my response. so I'll stick with the old "he started it" and retire.

[dukie8]

They were playing without two of their best players. If Duke lost to New Mexico State when Henderson and Scheyer were out would we have first round upset written all over us? They should still beat Mercer at home, but using that one game as an example of why USC's going to be upset in the first round is a little ridiculous.

to be clear, they were missing hackett (because mayo punched him out) and diarra (who hasn't played all season and whom i hardly would call one of their "best players"). new mexico state made the ncaat last year (and was projected by many to make it this year) so i am not sure how you are comparing nmst to a truly terrible mercer team (they are 3-5 and have been blown out by harvard). duke could have benched its entire starting line-up and the B team wouldn't lose to mercer at cis.

usc, missing just 1 player (who was punched out by mayo), losing at home to mercer is nothing short of a train wreck. in the 20+ years i have followed duke basketball closely, i can't think of a single loss that even remotely approaches the utterly shocking and inexplicable nature of the mercer loss. so, yes, the fact that usc, despite all of its hyped players, could lose to mercer at home, in and of itself is reason for me to believe that this team doesn't have what it takes to make it to the final four.

[Wander]

to be clear, they were missing hackett (because mayo punched him out) and diarra (who hasn't played all season and whom i hardly would call one of their "best players"). new mexico state made the ncaat last year (and was projected by many to make it this year) so i am not sure how you are comparing nmst to a truly terrible mercer team (they are 3-5 and have been blown out by harvard). duke could have benched its entire starting line-up and the B team wouldn't lose to mercer at cis.

usc, missing just 1 player (who was punched out by mayo), losing at home to mercer is nothing short of a train wreck. in the 20+ years i have followed duke basketball closely, i can't think of a single loss that even remotely approaches the utterly shocking and inexplicable nature of the mercer loss. so, yes, the fact that usc, despite all of its hyped players, could lose to mercer at home, in and of itself is reason for me to believe that this team doesn't have what it takes to make it to the final four.

First of all, I didn't even realize they were missing Diarra. To be honest I have no idea who the heck that is. I was talking about Hackett and Jefferson, who are in fact two of their best players.

New Mexico State looks pretty bad. But that's not the point. I'm not making excuses for USC losing to Mercer at home because that's pathetic. However, it's one game, it was without two of their best players, it's obvious they've improved, and it was in November. It's ridiculous to jump to conclusions about how far they'll go in March based on that one game. And who mentioned anything about a Final Four, anyway?

[slower]

just to be clear, the guy told me to "get a clue" and then what you quoted above was my response. so I'll stick with the old "he started it" and retire.

Okay, I see it now in your quote of his original post (#15 in this thread). I saw his post after it had already been edited by a mod. Sorry, bro.

[dukie8]

First of all, I didn't even realize they were missing Diarra. To be honest I have no idea who the heck that is. I was talking about Hackett and Jefferson, who are in fact two of their best players.

New Mexico State looks pretty bad. But that's not the point. I'm not making excuses for USC losing to Mercer at home because that's pathetic. However, it's one game, it was without two of their best players, it's obvious they've improved, and it was in November. It's ridiculous to jump to conclusions about how far they'll go in March based on that one game. And who mentioned anything about a Final Four, anyway?

you and at least one other poster prognosticated that usc will be "dangerous" come march. for a team that went to the sweet 16 last year and who brought in the #1 player out of high school, it doesn't take a quantum leap to conclude that you were implying a run to the final 4. if you just meant that they will be a 2 or 3 seed, win their first round game and then lose their 2nd round game, then that is an odd way of characterizing a team.

yes, losing to mercer at home is just one game, but the general consensus here is that if you have a ball hog on your team who is auditioning for the nba, the sum is equal to less than the parts and the team will underperform. usc certainly has not shied away from scheduling tough teams and tough teams on the road. however, i think that they are going to be all over the place in terms of performance and, contrary to yourself and several other people, will be an early out in the tournament.

[Wander]

you and at least one other poster prognosticated that usc will be "dangerous" come march. for a team that went to the sweet 16 last year and who brought in the #1 player out of high school, it doesn't take a quantum leap to conclude that you were implying a run to the final 4. if you just meant that they will be a 2 or 3 seed, win their first round game and then lose their 2nd round game, then that is an odd way of characterizing a team.

The only thing I and Classof06 have said is that we think they're a Top 15 team if Gibson gets his act together. Nobody said anything about a Final Four.



yes, losing to mercer at home is just one game, but the general consensus here is that if you have a ball hog on your team who is auditioning for the nba, the sum is equal to less than the parts and the team will underperform. usc certainly has not shied away from scheduling tough teams and tough teams on the road. however, i think that they are going to be all over the place in terms of performance and, contrary to yourself and several other people, will be an early out in the tournament.

Did you watch them play Southern Illinois, Memphis, or Kansas? Those are the games I saw and they sure as hell didn't look like an underachieving team in any of those games. Maybe you've seen other games where they've looked bad - I didn't see any of the others. They do have some issues to work out, but their starters are all underclassmen, so that's not surprising.

[dukie8]

The only thing I and Classof06 have said is that we think they're a Top 15 team if Gibson gets his act together. Nobody said anything about a Final Four.

is it really necessary to completely deny what has been posted just a few posts up in this thread? from you:


If he can get back to his previous form and stop fouling though then I agree USC is a top 15 team. Even with him being less than great, they played Kansas and Memphis really tough and that's impressive. I suspect this problem will improve by the end of the year and they'll be really dangerous in March.

from the other guy:


I'm telling you, once they get their late game execution together (which is what pre-conference play is for), this team will be dangerous. And the Pac-10 will have them battle-tested by the time March rolls around. Wait and see...

as i said earlier, it would be quite bizarre to be prognosticating how "dangerous" a team will be in march if you aren't implying anything about the final 4 when the same team just made the sweet 16 and has several very highly rated freshman, including the #1 rated freshman. "dangerous" to me doesn't mean a 2nd round exit but apparently something along those lines does to you.

[shadowfax336]

C'mon there are results possible between a 2nd round loss and a final 4...
Reading potential final 4 team into "dangerous team" doesn't make sense because I can say that Davidson is a "dangerous team" if I think they're capable of knocking off a team like Kansas or UCLA, getting to the sweet 16 and then losing.
I know you're saying that the standards should be higher for USC since they made the sweet 16 last year, but they lost 2 NBA first rounders, and have only recently come out of a basketball slump.
I think its quite fair to say that being a say, #4 seed going into the tournament that is capable of knocking off or at least giving a game to a #1 and making it to the elite 8 would qualify them as a dangerous team

[dukie8]

C'mon there are results possible between a 2nd round loss and a final 4...
Reading potential final 4 team into "dangerous team" doesn't make sense because I can say that Davidson is a "dangerous team" if I think they're capable of knocking off a team like Kansas or UCLA, getting to the sweet 16 and then losing.
I know you're saying that the standards should be higher for USC since they made the sweet 16 last year, but they lost 2 NBA first rounders, and have only recently come out of a basketball slump.
I think its quite fair to say that being a say, #4 seed going into the tournament that is capable of knocking off or at least giving a game to a #1 and making it to the elite 8 would qualify them as a dangerous team

i disagree. referring to a mid-major as a "dangerous" team in the ncaat usually means that they have the potential to upset a higher seeded team in the first round. many people have characterized davidson as "dangerous" for just that reason and i highly doubt anyone means that they are a threat for the final 4. when you are talking about a pac-10 team that just came off a sweet 16 season and added the #1 rated freshman as well as several other very highly rated freshman, "dangerous" takes on an entirely different meaning. final 4 bound? elite 8 bound? i don't know but the fact of the matter is that both of the posters who are drooling over mayo and what an upstanding individual he is have referred to usc as a dangerous team come the ncaat and that doesn't imply a 1 and done.

[shadowfax336]

I KNOW it doesn't imply a 1 and done. It implies that the team is capable of beating some very good teams. Not saying they will, just that they're capable of it. Do you really think that this team is incapable of knocking off a top team in the tourney? In case you missed it they took Memphis to OT the other night. SO yes they could go 1 and done, but they could also get hot and win 3-4 games. Dangerous team isn't a prediction of how far they will go, its a description of the team themselves and their potential to knock off favored teams. Last year everybody was calling Texas a dangerous team even though nobody considered them a real final 4 threat. Why? Because no team really wanted to play them because they knew Durant was capable of going off at any time. USC doesn't have a player as dynamic as Durant (sorry Mayo fans, he's just not that good), but when its players are playing well its fully capable of giving anyone all they can handle. So they therefore definitely qualify as a dangerous team

[dukie8]

I KNOW it doesn't imply a 1 and done. It implies that the team is capable of beating some very good teams. Not saying they will, just that they're capable of it. Do you really think that this team is incapable of knocking off a top team in the tourney? In case you missed it they took Memphis to OT the other night. SO yes they could go 1 and done, but they could also get hot and win 3-4 games. Dangerous team isn't a prediction of how far they will go, its a description of the team themselves and their potential to knock off favored teams. Last year everybody was calling Texas a dangerous team even though nobody considered them a real final 4 threat. Why? Because no team really wanted to play them because they knew Durant was capable of going off at any time. USC doesn't have a player as dynamic as Durant (sorry Mayo fans, he's just not that good), but when its players are playing well its fully capable of giving anyone all they can handle. So they therefore definitely qualify as a dangerous team

we are kind of hijacking this thread but i think that we just have different definitions of "dangerous." everybody was calling texas dangerous because they should not have been a 4 seed and, contrary to what you may believe, MANY people did consider them a final 4 threat (which would have required to upsets). usc is probably going to get a protected seed so any upset that they produce will have them going to at least the elite 8.

i'm not sure what we are arguing about because i do think that, on any given night, they can beat any team in the country. however, for reasons discussed above (eg, a ballhog star who is perfectly fine going 6-20 and 6-21 in their 2 biggest games of the year), they just as easily can lose at home to some nobody team. for those reasons, despite being forewarned by several posters on here about their expected excellence come march, i wholly expect them to get bounced prematurely from the ncaat.