Michigan State vs NC State

[mgtr]

Nearly at the end of the second half. NC State looks like a real patsy. Michigan State looks pretty good. This is the worst performance in the ACC - Big Ten Challenge I have seen. If NC State cannot perform better than this, we have no worries other than UNC in the ACC.

[CatchTheFox]

Agreed... NC State doesn't look as formidable as some thought. But its one game....

Very interested to see the result of the Illinois/Maryland matchup... having played Illinois so recently, it might provide an interesting yardstick for us to figure out how legit Maryland really is.

[ikiru36]

As last year, State appears lost without Evtimov. Unfortunately for them, he's not coming back so someone else better step up and show some maturity, particularly in the backcourt. If only Sidney could suit up...

But... if someone does fill that role, they're still dangerous with all that frontcourt talent. Nevertheless, pretty disappointing showing tonight.

[Patrick Yates]

As last year, State appears lost without Evtimov. Unfortunately for them, he's not coming back so someone else better step up and show some maturity, particularly in the backcourt. If only Sidney could suit up...

But... if someone does fill that role, they're still dangerous with all that frontcourt talent. Nevertheless, pretty disappointing showing tonight.

I believe you are referring to Atsur. Evtimov graduated 2 years ago, and they did miss him, too. Atsur was the engine that made NCSU go last year. Their late run coincided with his return.

I said it earlier, I do not see the Pack as a top tier team. UNC (when/if Lawson gets healthy), Duke, and Clemson (if Mays gets healthy) are the cream of the league. Frankly, Clemson's guard issues may put them solidly in third place. After that, it is pick'em, with UVA being better than many (see: Me) thought.

But NCSU has real issues. I really see only 4 guys that are definite ACC talents, and three of them play in the low post. Great coaches can manage 2 true low post players, and I have yet to see a coach manage 3 true low posts when all three are convinced, with some justification, that they are the best post on the team. And I have seen no proof that NCSU has a good coach.

They have no PG, and that is the single most important position in college hoops. I mean, Duke will go nuts on these tools. Especially since they seem alergic to playing Defense. Whichever fatted calf they send out to handle the ball against Duke is in for it. Nelson could probably stop him from getting it accross half court.

As for their bigs, they are each very good. In a vacum. Combine them and they seem to be less than the sum of their parts. Already there are chemistry issues. Hickson, while a great talent, did not have a great rep as far as focus and being a solid team mate. He is definitely a hired gun (not that he is getting paid, but if goes to any classes second semester I will eat his basketweaving textbook) who will be out the door this year, and he is playing as though this were an audition for the pros.

Overall, this is starting to look like a two and a half team race in the ACC. UNC (1) Duke (2) and Clemson (1/2). I am not impressed with the depth at all.

Patrick Yates

ps. In a complete non sequitor, is anyone else savoring a sense of shadenfreude regarding VT? They do not look good. After all their jawing the last 2 years, I am really looking forward to embarassing them 2 straight times. Same with MD.

[dukeENG2003]

State looked really tired, that had a lot to do with their performance tonight IMO. I'm SURE they will be more energized when they play us, they always are.

The thing that REALLY surprised me was the # of offensive boards MSU got. I know Izzo really preaches this, but shees. A lot of times, state had position, and just got out willed for the boards. Maybe this was an extension of being tired, but to beat us, you have to PUNISH us on the glass, and I don't think state will be able to do so enough to make up for the 30 something turnovers we'll force them into. . .

[Olympic Fan]

I think some of you are ready way too much into one bad performance.

Yes, NC State looked awful last night against Michigan State ... and Michigan State looked like world-beaters. This is the same Michigan State team that lost an exhibition at home to Grand Valley State ... then almost beat UCLA. They got a little better in the last month.

Teams change ... some teams get better. A year ago, Duke beat NC State by 23, just a week before the Pack beat UNC in Raleigh. Later, N.C. State lost by 26 at Florida State (with Atsur) -- two weeks before beating Duke in the ACC Tournament.

Yes, they have some chemistry issues up front, but I'm not as down on their point guard as some of you guys seem to be, Degand is amazingly quick and athletic ... he's not a great floor leader yet -- just keep in mind that he's playing for the first time in two years.

N.C. State is not a patsy ... they just beat a pretty decent Villanova team on a neutral floor. They're clearly having growing pains at the moment (also the New Orleans loss). I doubt they'll change UNC-Duke for the top of the ACC, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they prove a tough out later in the season. Hickson may be a hired gun, but he's a terrific talent -- and precisely the kind of big man who will give Duke a lot of trouble.

Also, by their performance at Indiana, I hope it was a warning not to write off Georgia Tech because of their early struggles. When they get Dickey and Peacock back in the middle and Miller returns, this could be a dangerous team.

[whereinthehellami]

How about Maryland? I caught a little of their game last night and they looked better than I thought they would. They got the athletes, length, and guards that could give Duke some trouble.

[Patrick Yates]

NCSU just seems to have some flaws that I do not believe they can overcome. Hickson appears to be studly, and I do not see that Costner or the other big are adjusting to that very well.

As for their guard situation, well, he has to play on both sides of the court. He may be a very good athlete, but they don't need an athlete. Atsur was not a star athlete, but he was a great floor general. With all their inside talent, what NCSU needs is a guy who can distribute the ball and keep everyone happy. I have yet to see this. Also, I have real doubts as to whether anyone on that team is a real 3-pt threat, making it easy to collapse on the bigs.

But, they have enough raw talent, athleticism, and basic skills to be solid offensively, at least.

Unfortunately, B-Ball also requires you to play defense. MSU looked like world beaters because no one on the pack squad attempted to play D. Duke will have a field day against a squad that allows that many open 3 point looks. It will be possible to turn over the pg on a regular basis, which will feed our running attack. When that doesn't happen, well, at times we will have 5 guys on the floor, all of whom are at least capable 3 pt shooters. If we are mediocre that night from outside, we win comfortably. If we are Hot, it is an ugly blowout. Regardless, I think it will be possible to put NCSU in a hole early, and that team is not designed to claw back from a deficit.

Finally, that turnaround you mentioned coincided with Atsur finally returning and getting healthy. Their late run is almost entirely due to his return. He won't be joining the team ever again, which is why I gotta think the Pack fans will be disappointed this year.

Patrick Yates

[DukeCO2009]

State goes into the season with high expectations and doesn't even come close to living up to them--man, am I shocked.

[Devilsfan]

the answer is much less complex. Sidney failed to wear his red sport coat.

[Slackerb]

There are plenty of excuses for why State played so poorly (and some of them valid), including playing 4 games in the last 7 days, the first real away game of the season (and @ Michigan St. is always a tough out), and Michigan State's coming out on fire, etc.

But the real problem I saw last night was that the team continued to play lackadaisical and uninspired basketball on both ends of the court.

I wouldn't automatically dismiss State based on performance thus far. It's a long season, and we're still in the early stages. Everyone knows they have the parts to be a good team...if they get them working together effectively or not is the only question.

[dukelifer]

Nearly at the end of the second half. NC State looks like a real patsy. Michigan State looks pretty good. This is the worst performance in the ACC - Big Ten Challenge I have seen. If NC State cannot perform better than this, we have no worries other than UNC in the ACC.

State is not a finished product- nor is Duke. Both will get better. This was State's first big game this year at a hostile arena and some of their young players may have not responded well. Duke's youngsters may have some similar issues when they first step onto a visiting court. Barring injuries, State will be a tough out come February- mark it down.

[kydevil]

Atsur was the engine that made NCSU go last year. Their late run coincided with his return.



I like the reference of Atsur with the engine. Considering his first name :D

[tbyers11]

State is not a finished product- nor is Duke. Both will get better. This was State's first big game this year at a hostile arena and some of their young players may have not responded well. Duke's youngsters may have some similar issues when they first step onto a visiting court. Barring injuries, State will be a tough out come February- mark it down.

State was definitely tired. But you can blame tired for fading down the stretch in the second half not for being absolutely demolished and playing horrible defense the entire game. Also of State's top 6 players you've got a senior (Grant), 2 juniors (Fells and McCauley) and a redshirt soph (Costner). Only Hickson (true frosh) and Degand (basically redshirt frosh) are truly young.

I saw NC State play in person in Orlando on a neutral court and they just didn't seem to click. Also, their 3 best players all basically play the same position. They are obviously not as bad as they looked against MSU and it is only November, but I don't see them living up to pre-season expectations of the 3rd place team in the ACC.

They will likely give Duke a tough game because of matchups (Costner and Hickson), but if Duke can apply intense defensive pressure on the perimeter (something we seem much better at this year) like they did at the RBC last year it might not be that tough of a game.

[Indoor66]

State was definitely tired. But you can blame tired for fading down the stretch in the second half not for being absolutely demolished and playing horrible defense the entire game. Also of State's top 6 players you've got a senior (Grant), 2 juniors (Fells and McCauley) and a redshirt soph (Costner). Only Hickson (true frosh) and Degand (basically redshirt frosh) are truly young.

I saw NC State play in person in Orlando on a neutral court and they just didn't seem to click. Also, their 3 best players all basically play the same position. They are obviously not as bad as they looked against MSU and it is only November, but I don't see them living up to pre-season expectations of the 3rd place team in the ACC.

They will likely give Duke a tough game because of matchups (Costner and Hickson), but if Duke can apply intense defensive pressure on the perimeter (something we seem much better at this year) like they did at the RBC last year it might not be that tough of a game.

It did not appear to me that the State guards will be able to handle our pressure and be able to get the ball inside.

[dukemsu]

I was a bit surprised State was so bad, but they had the unfortunate occurance of being MSU's next high profile opponent after they let UCLA off the hook. Izzo had this one circled, and it showed. The Spartans were lying in wait, and State was tired.

I think State will be all right by the end of the ACC. There are pieces there, but last night MSU played their best game of the season-by far. MSU is a legit threat to go a long way if they play like that.