Attn: Cameron

[Jumbo]

What were our stakes again? Because it looks like we might have a live bet after all! ;)

[wisteria]

:) If Taylor keeps shooting like this, we may have a JJ again!

(is it me or Taylor does seem to have longer range than JJ?)

[wilson]

If you don't mind my asking, what was the bet?

[blazindw]

:) If Taylor keeps shooting like this, we may have a JJ again!

(is it me or Taylor does seem to have longer range than JJ?)

I don't know if Taylor has JJ range (that being, if he's in the gym, he's in range), but it's pretty far. And it will definitely help stretch opposing teams' defenses when he's on.

Cameron sounded like it was ROCKING tonight! Kudos to the Crazies!

[Cameron]

Yes, I would certainy say we do! King Taylor (yes, I am using it. It's my creation:)), is now averaging 10.8 PPG and shooting triples at a 51.3% clip (19 of 37). The three-point monster has hit ten in his last two outings, along with scoring 42 points. I say monster because this kid wants to shoot three-pointers so bad I can taste it through the television set, and he usually lofts them up before the passer even gives him the ball:D You gotta love it.

I don't remember the specifics of who has to do what depending on which one of us lose--I believe it had to to with avatar pics, however--but I believe the stakes were whether or not Taylor would average double figures. I had also originally added in the 80 triples on the year for the King, but I don't think we kept that as part of the deal. Let's just leave it at a 10 PPG over/under. We'll figure out the rest later.

Light it up, Taylor!

[Jumbo]

Yes, I would certainy say we do! King Taylor (yes, I am using it. It's my creation:)), is now averaging 10.8 PPG and shooting triples at a 51.3% clip (19 of 37). The three-point monster has hit ten in his last two outings, along with scoring 42 points. I say monster because this kid wants to shoot three-pointers so bad I can taste it through the television set, and he usually lofts them up before the passer even gives him the ball:D You gotta love it.

I don't remember the specifics of who has to do what depending on which one of us lose--I believe it had to to with avatar pics, however--but I believe the stakes were whether or not Taylor would average double figures. I had also originally added in the 80 triples on the year for the King, but I don't think we kept that as part of the deal. Let's just leave it at a 10 PPG over/under. We'll figure out the rest later.

Light it up, Taylor!

I believe it was 85 threes. ;) I'll go back and find the bet at some point. I know I have to make King my avatar, but I don't think we ever settled on full stakes. We should!

[Cameron]

I'm calling it a night, but we'll figure out the stakes before our next game. I like my chances! I was a little worried after Maui, but the Taylor monster (:D) is garnering my full, devout attention once again! He's averaging 21 PPG and 5 triples per over his last two:) Now that obviously won't stay that way, and the first game was Eastern Kentucky, but those are some crazy numbers for a Duke frosh!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Taylor King has the quickest release I've ever seen, including JJ's. And as Johnny Dawkins said "he's the only player I've ever seen who can hit a turn-around, fade away three", and he did it tonight! Simply amazing! And a lot of fun to watch, as is the entire team.

[Methodistman]

I had the joy of taking my family to the game tonight - my 2 sons (8 and 9 years old) went there as Henderson fans, but all they could talk about after the game was Taylor. This guy is amazing with his confidence. To be honest, what impressed me almost as much as his 3's was his defense and tenacity. Gonna love this guy!

[dukemomLA]

JJ had more discipline and a more perfect shooting motion, but Taylor has the most amazing range that I've seen in college BB. It's a team which has so many weapons that I don't think T.King will put up the #s that JJ did, BUT who cares, no us fans, not Taylor, not the coaches. This is a true TEAM. It's going to be a great season to watch. (Such wish I was a BB player and could be on the court).

[ACCBBallFan]

I have been off line a few days but count me as supporting Cameron and SilkyJ on King Taylor. Though we have not seen much of it yet, I have not given up on also seeing the King in a Kingsnoggle role, paired with Singler when neither Lance nor Zoubek are available due to foul trouble or matchups.

I must admit that I thought Cameron was on the short end of the Avatar bet that King Taylor would average double digit points scored, but so far he is on track.

May need a ruling on whether it was a rounding bet where anything 9.5 or better swings in Cameron's favor, versus 10.0 minimum, a good problem to have.

Pairing Zoubek and King has worked better than I would have expected. I pretty much though Singler could pair with anybody, Zoubek only with Singler, and any two of Singler-King-Lance.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Pairing Zoubek and King has worked better than I would have expected. I pretty much though Singler could pair with anybody, Zoubek only with Singler, and any two of Singler-King-Lance.

K is still very high on Zoubek and thinks he will contribute significantly this year. He's just getting back into shape after his broken foot. K even said (in a private luncheon so don't ask me to link to the source) that before the injury, Brian could get off the ground. He just didn't say how high... :D

[Devilsfan]

JJ's commitment between his soph and junior year was amazing.

[AluminumDuke]

And as Johnny Dawkins said "he's the only player I've ever seen who can hit a turn-around, fade away three"

May I suggest:

http://www.bluehealers.org/FurtherKing.jpg

[Ben63]

TK may not have JJ's range, but who does? However TK's release is so fast he wont nessecarily need as many screens as JJ did to get an open shot. Also, defenses keyed on JJ. If they key on TK, Duke has other players who can beat them.

[Jumbo]

TK may not have JJ's range, but who does? However TK's release is so fast he wont nessecarily need as many screens as JJ did to get an open shot. Also, defenses keyed on JJ. If they key on TK, Duke has other players who can beat them.

Why is anyone comparing Taylor King to J.J. Redick? You're talking about the leading scorer in ACC history; a guy whose jersey is hanging from the rafters in Cameron. If King becomes half the player Redick was, we should all be thrilled.

[Lord Ash]

Why is anyone comparing Taylor King to J.J. Redick? You're talking about the leading scorer in ACC history; a guy whose jersey is hanging from the rafters in Cameron. If King becomes half the player Redick was, we should all be thrilled.

Amen. Yes he has ridiculous range, but he isn't the world of JJ yet.

[Karl Beem]

Amen. Yes he has ridiculous range, but he isn't the world of JJ yet.


And he will never be. He's simply not athletic enough. It's great tho that teams will have to prepare for our 7th or 8th man!

[phaedrus]

JJ's best athletic trait was his endurance. That's something King can definitely get better at.

[dukestheheat]

Karl Beem-

but........remember that JJ as a freshman was very slow and was really only a great jump-shooter!?

over the years, he lost his hair, gained it back, shed a lot of weight and turned into a total terror on the floor and not just so one-dimensional.

i see the same thing happening with King!

dth.

[Troublemaker]

I actually think TK is a better prospect/talent than JJ. Whether he becomes a Duke great like JJ was remains to be seen but his height, reach, quick release, and ability to play vs bigs makes it easier for him to be open and to get shots off. His rebounding and inside play makes him more versatile as well.

[Karl Beem]

I actually think TK is a better prospect/talent than JJ. Whether he becomes a Duke great like JJ was remains to be seen but his height, reach, quick release, and ability to play vs bigs makes it easier for him to be open and to get shots off. His rebounding and inside play makes him more versatile as well.

Disagree.

[Jumbo]

I actually think TK is a better prospect/talent than JJ. Whether he becomes a Duke great like JJ was remains to be seen but his height, reach, quick release, and ability to play vs bigs makes it easier for him to be open and to get shots off. His rebounding and inside play makes him more versatile as well.

This is silly. Just silly. TK right now looks like a great spot-up shoter who can also rebound a bit. But he hasn't shown any ability to shoot on the move, off screens, off the dribble. No pump and pull-up, no step-back, no mid-range game. Those are all things J.J. Redick had as a freshman, and we know how much better he got. Do you see King developing those skills as he goes along? Because in terms of being a prospect/talent, he's still a power forward with sick range and no athleticisim trapped at a swingman's height.

[Troublemaker]

This is silly. Just silly. TK right now looks like a great spot-up shoter who can also rebound a bit. But he hasn't shown any ability to shoot on the move, off screens, off the dribble. No pump and pull-up, no step-back, no mid-range game. Those are all things J.J. Redick had as a freshman, and we know how much better he got. Do you see King developing those skills as he goes along? Because in terms of being a prospect/talent, he's still a power forward with sick range and no athleticisim trapped at a swingman's height.

First of all, JJ was not proficient at most of those things you mentioned as a freshman. He may have flashed some of those skills. Heck, TK has flashed a baby hook, a midrange fade, and some driving ability, but I'm not going to count those things as part of his game right now. I remember JJ being less varied offensively as a freshman than what you are recalling. He was still a tremendous threat, of course, but his game expanded a great deal as the years went by.

Having said that, the whole point is that TK does NOT have to develop every single tool JJ had (specifically, running off screens). He's a better talent than JJ because he will be guarded by bigs most of his career, not athletic wings. His height, reach, and girth allows him to play and guard the 4 and 5, which means he will more easily get open than JJ did. I expect that TK will become leaner, add a midrange shot and some driving ability by the time he's a senior, and he will average 20 pts/gm as an upperclassman. His offensive game as a senior will be similar to Shane's offensive game as a senior, and Shane was good for 20 pts/gm. Frankly, I think this is a fairly obvious and easy prediction to make.

[Ben63]

Dont we all remmber JJ's nickname was a freshman and some as a sophomore??

Just Jumpers

[Jumbo]

First of all, JJ was not proficient at most of those things you mentioned as a freshman. He may have flashed some of those skills. Heck, TK has flashed a baby hook, a midrange fade, and some driving ability, but I'm not going to count those things as part of his game right now. I remember JJ being less varied offensively as a freshman than what you are recalling. He was still a tremendous threat, of course, but his game expanded a great deal as the years went by.

Having said that, the whole point is that TK does NOT have to develop every single tool JJ had (specifically, running off screens). He's a better talent than JJ because he will be guarded by bigs most of his career, not athletic wings. His height, reach, and girth allows him to play and guard the 4 and 5, which means he will more easily get open than JJ did. I expect that TK will become leaner, add a midrange shot and some driving ability by the time he's a senior, and he will average 20 pts/gm as an upperclassman. His offensive game as a senior will be similar to Shane's offensive game as a senior, and Shane was good for 20 pts/gm. Frankly, I think this is a fairly obvious and easy prediction to make.


J.J. started getting to the rim more as a junior and a senior. But he could shoot in a variety of ways on the perimeter as soon as he arrived on campus.

I don't mean to denigrate Taylor, and maybe we are talking past each other on the issue of "talent." I don't see Taylor as a future NBA player, for instance. But if you're talking about his ability purely at the college level, I can see your argument a bit more clearly. Of course, I don't think he'll be a 20 ppg scorer at Duke, and I still think it's incredibly unfair (most of all to Taylor) to even mention him in the same breath as Redick. But if you would explain what you mean by "talent," (beyond the part about his being guarded by 4's and 5's, which doesn't have a lot to do with talent) I might have a better understanding.

[Jumbo]

Dont we all remmber JJ's nickname was a freshman and some as a sophomore??

Just Jumpers

Ah, but there are many ways to skin a cat and to shoot a jumper -- off a screen, curl, dribble, etc. To be a great shooter, you have to be able to hit shots without your feet set, without full balance, with a hand in your face. Redick could do all of that immediately.

[kexman]

There is a difference between being a great shooter and a greater scorer (ie. getting your own shot). What impressed me with Redick was not that he could hit an open jumper...he made crazy shots. He was the focus of the defense and he would be forced to run off multiple screens to get a split second opening to get off a shot. Without looking up his stats he made his shots with a high degree of difficulty...not many teams gave him open looks. This may be a silly comment about the all time leading scorer, but it is too bad that there wasn't a dominant "scorer" on his team that would have given him some easier looks.

Taylor King has played great so far..and we will be well served if an option off the bench can hit open shots. Carolina went far one year with Dante Calabria shooting 50% from the arc...he was there 4th or 5th option and his job was to hit open 3's. He didn't force things, but killed defenses if they left him alone.

[Ben63]

Ah, but there are many ways to skin a cat and to shoot a jumper -- off a screen, curl, dribble, etc. To be a great shooter, you have to be able to hit shots without your feet set, without full balance, with a hand in your face. Redick could do all of that immediately.

I absolutely agree. I am just simply referring to what his critics called him. I was kinda just playing devils advocate for the sake of the debate. I wasn't disrespecting him in any way. He is my favorite Duke player of all time and his jersey is the only one I ever owned. Wore it every game day in eighth grade
and got in verbal wars with the Thomas, the Carolina fan.

I remember watching JJ in the McDonalds game when I was 11. I remember saying to myself, "dam hes gonna be special." Of course I didn't see him being the ACC all time leading scorer, but I dont think anyone did.

[Troublemaker]

But if you would explain what you mean by "talent," (beyond the part about his being guarded by 4's and 5's, which doesn't have a lot to do with talent) I might have a better understanding.

His being guarded by 4s and 5s has everything to do with his talent. Indeed we probably are talking past each other. "Talent" means natural gifts to me -- height, frame, leaping ability, hand-eye coordination, fluidity and so forth are examples of talent. "Skill", of course, means things you learn -- post moves, pass/shoot fundamentals, etc. I consider TK to be the better talent because it's his talent that allows him to be guarded by 4s and 5s. If he were smaller with shorter arms and less bulk, he'd be just a wing. And there are far more good wing-defenders like Garrett Temple around than there are good versatile-big defenders (Mbah-a-Moute comes to mind for this season). JJ may have been more skilled at the same point in their careers (I suppose -- he obviously couldn't rebound like TK or score in the post) but he NEEDED to be more skilled to score. TK just has to pick on opposing bigs. And, of course, TK still has his whole career to improve skill-wise.

[Troublemaker]

I don't see Taylor as a future NBA player, for instance. But if you're talking about his ability purely at the college level, I can see your argument a bit more clearly. Of course, I don't think he'll be a 20 ppg scorer at Duke, and I still think it's incredibly unfair (most of all to Taylor) to even mention him in the same breath as Redick.

You know, while I WAS talking about the college level, even on the NBA level I'm not ruling out TK's chances there. He's an incredible shooting talent and the NBA is kind to specialists. You can make it in the NBA if you can do one thing really, really well, whether it's rebound, defend, or in this case, shoot. He can be an off-the-bench shooter like JJ.

I DO think he'll score 20 pts/gm eventually in his Duke career and I don't think it's unfair at all to mention them in the same breath. I obviously don't expect TK to break or even approach JJ's scoring records because TK will be surrounded by more scoring talent throughout his career and probably won't even become a focal point of the offense until he's an upperclassman.

With all that said, it hardly stretches the imagination to think that TK could match JJ's scoring pace at the same point in their career if TK were provided the same opportunities. As a freshman, JJ averaged 15 pts/gm in 31 min/gm and was a focal point of the offense. Right now, TK is averaging 11 pts/gm in 14 min/gm and is just one of several scoring options on Duke's team. If we increased TK's minutes to match JJ's and we shifted some more offensive focus towards him, what do you think his scoring avg would be? Probably at least 15 pts/gm.

[Troublemaker]

Now that I look at it, that 11 pts/gm in 14 min/gm is pretty remarkable. Obviously a small sample size and it's easier to score playing fewer minutes and with less pressure (off the bench role, scoring off broken plays and off of what others create). But still.

[Bob Green]

Karl Beem-

but........remember that JJ as a freshman was very slow and was really only a great jump-shooter!?

over the years, he lost his hair, gained it back, shed a lot of weight and turned into a total terror on the floor and not just so one-dimensional.

i see the same thing happening with King!

dth.

Your point hits the nail on the head. If TK works as hard as JJ, during his college career, his upside is unlimited!

[dukemomLA]

This year it's all about the TEAM!! Thank you God! We have so many offensive & defensive weapons, it's sick! YAHOO!! And, personally I attribute a lot of this to the leadership and commitment to conditioning of DeMarcus. A wonderful and determined team leader. (And personally, KUDOS to Brian Zoubek for really bringing it). Every minute of every game, it seems there is just another guy to take the reins. GH, LT, JS, etc. etc.

Again, as I've said before, I LOVE this team. Win or lose, the joy they exhibit playing with one another, each and every time they take the court, is soooo much fun to watch.

Thank you, team of 2007-8 for bringing such smiles to your fans! Happy Holidays to all. I mark my calendar for the next Duke game. (again and again).

I LOVE the confidence and swagger of this team. It truly reminds me of the 2001 team. Despite a lot of talent last year, to me, this joy of playing together and having 'fun' was sorely missing -- from the get-go. The chemistry and love of each other was just not there. It's a GAME! So work hard, trust your teammates, relish that you have the ability and opportunity to experience this amazing thing, and soar.

Thus -- grit/swagger/chemistry/love of each other will win out EVERY time vs. "talent." GO DEVILS!!

P.S. Let's see some more Floorslapping -- to create lots of chatter on anti-Duke websites. Slap, Slap. (Come on, Wojo, teach them how)

[Memphis Devil]

You know, while I WAS talking about the college level, even on the NBA level I'm not ruling out TK's chances there. He's an incredible shooting talent and the NBA is kind to specialists. You can make it in the NBA if you can do one thing really, really well, whether it's rebound, defend, or in this case, shoot. He can be an off-the-bench shooter like JJ.

I DO think he'll score 20 pts/gm eventually in his Duke career and I don't think it's unfair at all to mention them in the same breath. I obviously don't expect TK to break or even approach JJ's scoring records because TK will be surrounded by more scoring talent throughout his career and probably won't even become a focal point of the offense until he's an upperclassman.

With all that said, it hardly stretches the imagination to think that TK could match JJ's scoring pace at the same point in their career if TK were provided the same opportunities. As a freshman, JJ averaged 15 pts/gm in 31 min/gm and was a focal point of the offense. Right now, TK is averaging 11 pts/gm in 14 min/gm and is just one of several scoring options on Duke's team. If we increased TK's minutes to match JJ's and we shifted some more offensive focus towards him, what do you think his scoring avg would be? Probably at least 15 pts/gm.

I agree. I don't think that there is a team in the NBA that could not use a guy that can come off the bench and stretch the defense even if he is only a situational player. Plenty of college players have landed a contract based on pure shooting ability. Now, whether or not TK will be one of those players remains to be seen, but you have to like his chances based on his early showing. I do also agree that were he a more central player in the offense that he would be averaging 15+ ppg, but for now his role is to stretch the defense.
Part of what made JJ so special was his determination to be a great player. He put in the time during the offseasons to improve his ballhandling, endurance, etc. When he got to Duke, he was very much a shooter. When he left, he was a scorer. He learned how to break defenders down off the dribble to create his own shot. This was something that he did not do as a Fresh/Soph. Now, he certainly was no Allen Iverson and he was still more dangerous offensively moving without the ball than trying to create his own shot off the dribble, but he molded himself into a pure scorer by the time he left.
Now the question is, can TK duplicate any of this? Well, he has been blessed with sick range which is certainly a great beginning, but he has much room for improvement. JJ put in the effort and created a legend.

[unexpected]

I don't think it's fair to compare Taylor to JJ, but when I see Taylor play, I'm often reminded of Kyle Korver. Anyone else see the resemblance?

[kydevil]

I have to disagree with the Tk being a greater talent. He is looked good so far(and yes I love him) but lets wait till he gets in a big stage on the road. King could develop into a better scorer, however I seriously doubt it. I can't see King putting numbers up close to Redick's if he had to play with the defense JJ had to. How many points do you think Taylor could score if say Marcus Ginyard guarded him every possession for a whole game?

[Cameron]

To be a great shooter, you have to be able to hit shots without your feet set, without full balance, with a hand in your face. Redick could do all of that immediately.

I would say Taylor has done a pretty fair job of completing the above shooting tasks this early in his college career. As I'm sure you have, Jumbo, I've watched every game available to me so far this season, and that is exactly what I have seen Taylor do. Some of the shots he hits are incredible. I recall one turn on a dime, right between the eyes (to use a Kevin Harlan) fade-away triple from the right corner against Wisconsin that totally blew me away. And just yesterday, he hit one from about 22-feet, falling backwards. Taylor's uncanny ability to drill shots from any angle or position is pretty remarkable at this stage in his career. In fact, I almost think he shoots better in more awkward/difficult situations than he does wide open. Much like a Quincy Douby from Rutgers or Brendan Plavich from Charlotte, to name some recent outside specialists.

Will Taylor even reach the surface of 2,900 points during his career in Durham? Or even 2,000, for that matter? Vegas would probably disagree, as would I. However, like mentioned above, that will be because Taylor will playing with a much higher talent level than JJ ever did in his four years in Durham, which obviously will bring more balanced scoring numbers. Would JJ stand as the ACC's all-time leading score right now had he played with the talent level of guys like Jon Scheyer (a sixth starter, no less), Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, Gerlad Henderson, an experienced Greg Paulus, or a future Blue Devil like Elliot Williams? Not likely. He would have scored a ton of points and still drained an ocean's worth of three-pointers, but I doubt Mr. Hemric would have lost as much sleep as he did two winters ago had this been the case.

As for Taylor becoming a 20-point scorer at Duke, he certainly has proven he has the talent level of being capable in the future. It will just come down to what kinds of teams he's playing on as a junior and senior. If Taylor is playing on a roster with similar talent level to JJs senior season (God let's hope not), then yes. I could see King put up 25, 26 a game easy in that type of situation. No doubt about it.

As for who King reminds me of shooting wise, it's definitely Brendan Plavich. Plavich was a much smaller player, but I'm reminded of him just in the two players' forms and from how far out both like to shoot. Plavich didn't have a real pretty stroke and shot much better, as I said above, in difficult situations, which is how I think King could aptly be descibed as a shooter as well. Don't get me wrong, I love his lefty stroke (it's as beautiful as an isolated pony overlooking a vast ocean with five rainbows dancing in the distance), but it's awkward looking.

Casey Jacobsen comes to mind as well, but I think his shot was much purerer. A lot like JJ's. Taylor certainly has been hitting very accurate from behind the arc, but I consider him to be more of a John Starks guy. Hot and cold. But, when hot, he's pulling from 40 feet with two guys in his face and has his eyes on a brand new Lexus:) That kind of guy. Let's just hope Taylor isn't quite as "tri-polar" as Starks, though. Anyone remember Game 7 of the 1994 NBA Finals?

All I know is I'll take Mr. King is any package, shape, or form I can get him. He's been great. I'm not an I-told-you-so person, but what about all that preseason chatter about Taylor never... :)

And, Jumbo, I think we're game! We'll have to get into the specifics of the bet in terms of the consequences of the loser (which is you at the moment;)) before the new year starts. Once again, the bet was just a simple 10 PPG over/under for Taylor.

[phaedrus]

Would JJ stand as the ACC's all-time leading score right now had he played with the talent level of guys like Jon Scheyer (a sixth starter, no less), Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, Gerlad Henderson, an experienced Greg Paulus, or a future Blue Devil like Elliot Williams?

I don't think you're being fair to Shelden Williams, Chris Duhon, Dahntay Jones, Daniel Ewing, and one year worth of Luol Deng. JJ averaged 15-16 a game his first two years playing with all of those guys, and 22/game playing with Shelden Williams and Daniel Ewing.

Of course, options were a lot more sparse JJ's senior year.

[Cameron]

I don't think you're being fair to Shelden Williams, Chris Duhon, Dahntay Jones, Daniel Ewing, and one year worth of Luol Deng. JJ averaged 15-16 a game his first two years playing with all of those guys, and 22/game playing with Shelden Williams and Daniel Ewing.


I should have been more careful in the choice of my words. You are certainly correct, phaedrus, on me not being fair to the 2003 and 2004 Duke talent level. I was more or less just commenting on JJ's senior season, the one which sky rocketed his career numbers to ungodly plateaus. He scored 964 points (26.8 PPG) and dialed in on 139 three-point field goals that year. He was our go-to scoring option 95 percent of the time we crossed half court while he was in the game. I don't want to take anything away from Shelden, because he was a great scorer in his own right at 18.8 PPG, but aside from him, our next high point man was Josh (8.8 PPG). And he wasn't exactly a "feared" weapon. JJ definitely benefited personally from being the main attraction that season, and he took full advantage, breaking some of the most historic marks in ACC and NCAA history. Then again, one could also look at it from the opposite perspecitve, that being the main attraction as a senior led to a Sweet 16 exit.

It's a very interesting predicament, really. On one hand, we all adore and love JJ for the unbelievable scoring numbers, three-point shots, and half a century old records he broke. I know I do. I have all the game tapes, and still get a great basketball high and pleasure from watching them as the years begin to pass. His legendary 40-point night against Virginia in Cameron's historic confines, on just 13 shots from the field. His 41-point massacre and nine three-pointers against Texas in Madison Square Garden, in what the the first regular season #1 versus #2 matchup in nearly a decade. The late January, early February stretch in 2006 in which JJ unleashed for 41, 24, 40, 28, 36, 35, and 35 points, respectively, in a stretch of seven games, a streak that placed him tops in the NCAA in scoring at that time, at an incredible 28.4 PPG. (Those kinds of numbers are unheard of for a player at Duke, and, in present day college baskeball, for any player in a major conference not named Kevin Durant or Dennis Scott.)

However, those numbers, records, and great memories came at a cost. We didn't get to see JJ raise a national title as a senior, something that seemed to be almost meant to be, like the stars were specifiically aligned for. Just like it was for Shane and Christian and Bobby before him. But, it never came. Because of the lack of depth and "solid" surrounding help that JJ lacked his senior season outside of Shelden, JJ didn't get to hold that one elusive trophy.

It couldn't have been both ways. Had JJ had the surrounding talent he needed (guys like Dunleavy and Deng not leaving as early as expected, Shaun Livington actually making the journey to Durham, more scoring weapons to play alongside as a senior, etc), he most likely would have walked away with a title. But, he would have taken a big hit in the scoring and shot total department. I'm sure JJ would be the first to tell you that he'd give up those records for a national championship as a senior. Hell, I would give my game tapes back in a heart beat to have history re-written and to change a couple of 40-point games for a couple of, say, 30-point games and fresher legs come the LSU Sweet 16 game.

Things happen for a reason, though, and it just wasn't meant to be. We may not have gotten that fourth banner in Cameron during his career in Duke Blue, but we did get something pretty special. We got to see four years of one of the greatest collegian shooters and scorers of our time. We got to see greatness each and every night. No matter what kind of team Duke fields in the future, no matter what kind dead-eye shooter or unbelievable leaper, no matter what kind of great scorer or high scoring club, nothing, absolutely nothing, will ever compare to watching JJ take the floor on a wintry college basketball evening. He was truly one of a kind. The excitement level he brough to each and every game he was a part of is completely undescribable. There are just no words. He was a legend.

Alright, sorry for another JJ love fest:) I'm done.

To sum things up, though, I greatly apologize for appearing to make light of the talent of guys like Dahntay Jones, Chris Duhon (my favorite Blue Devil of all-time), Shelden Williams, and Daniel Ewing. Those 2003 and 2004 Duke teams had a lot of talent, no doubt about it. My original post was just directed towards, as I said, JJ's senior season.

[Jumbo]

And, Jumbo, I think we're game! We'll have to get into the specifics of the bet in terms of the consequences of the loser (which is you at the moment;)) before the new year starts. Once again, the bet was just a simple 10 PPG over/under for Taylor.

Here's the thread (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=60325#post60325). I should've taken you up on the 85 threes too.

To Cameron, Troublemaker and others who have pointed out that Taylor might not put up big scoring numbers because he is (and will be) surrounded by lots of offensive talent, the converse is true. Taylor hasn't shown what he can do as the focal point. Most of the time he's on the floor, he's surrounded by at least three other players who can create, shoot and slash. Defenses simply aren't paying as much attention to him when they have to worry about stopping Gerald, Kyle, DeMarcus, Jon, Nolan, Greg, etc. Thus far, he has basically been a spot-up shooter. It would be a big difference if he had to deal with constant double teams, facing the other team's best defender, and game plans designed to take away his three-point shot and force him to put the ball on the floor.

[CatchTheFox]

To sum things up, though, I greatly apologize for appearing to make light of the talent of guys like Dahntay Jones, Chris Duhon (my favorite Blue Devil of all-time), Shelden Williams, and Daniel Ewing. Those 2003 and 2004 Duke teams had a lot of talent, no doubt about it. My original post was just directed towards, as I said, JJ's senior season.

IMHO, this whole discussion has hinged on JJ's legendary senior season. No doubt in my mind, that season (along with Adam Morrison ripping it up with the Zags) was one of the finest offensive expositions I've seen in a long time. However...

JJ did not consistently perform at the level he did his senior year. He was a good shooter freshman/soph year, and was very solid and had glimmers of greatness junior year. But remember that between sophomore and junior year Redick had a kind of epiphany over the summer and really got his work ethic in gear. That resulted in him really bulking up and getting the confidence to dribble, drive, and do all those things we love JJ for his senior year.

Taylor King has all the pieces to be a great player like JJ. JJ was a nightmare because he was so well conditioned by his junior/senior year that he ran around screens two or three times a possession, winding his opponent. Taylor has other gifts: he's big, and he can play the post occasionally. That is its own kind of match-up nightmare. It's up to TK -- if he puts in the work ethic JJ exhibited his last years at Duke, I think he'll be really special. And I see no indication that won't happen.

[dw0827]

Thus far, he has basically been a spot-up shooter. It would be a big difference if he had to deal with constant double teams, facing the other team's best defender, and game plans designed to take away his three-point shot and force him to put the ball on the floor.

Good point. that's what was so uncanny about JJ. Teams did everything they could to stop JJ. He was their focus. And he still lit them up.

Could Taylor do that right now if he was the focus of the other team's wrath? I doubt it. But neither could JJ as a freshman.

I think the comparison game we all like to play is really unfair. Can we not just enjoy Taylor for being Taylor? And enjoy his growth as a player and a person over the next few years? If he ultimately becomes the second coming of JJ, fine. If he becomes the first coming of Taylor King, thats fine too.

I tell tell you one thing, though. I love his enthusiasm. I love his attitude. I love his work ethic. And I love the fact that he's at Duke.

[throatybeard]

In my mind, this whole discussion has hinged on the fact that King is a white guy with range. Any other comparison to JJ is spurious.

[Troublemaker]

In my mind, this whole discussion has hinged on the fact that King is a white guy with range. Any other comparison to JJ is spurious.

Not really. If TK were black, the comparison would still be there. It's the range, not the skin color, that causes the comparison. JJ was compared to Trajan, and if Trajan were a freshman on this year's team, I'm sure we'd compare him to JJ. And Trajan's mulatto, of course. If you're a great 3-pt shooter, you will get compared to great 3-pt shooters of the past. That said, at least in my case, I was trying more to contrast them, not compare them.

[Troublemaker]

Also, I'm not sure what to make of the comments about "it's unfair" to compare them. Taken literally, to say it's "unfair" is absurd, of course, but y'all are probably using the adjective in some sort of figurative sense. That said, I can easily turn it around and say that it's "unfair" to TK to NOT have high expectations for him. I'm sure much of this falls under the "we take ourselves too seriously" category again. If someone wants to compare the two, who cares. But again, in my case, I was contrasting them.

[Cameron]

I compared Taylor to former Rutgers guard Quincy Douby for having absolutely a complete and utter disregard for the legal distance of the three-point line;), so count me in on those who say the comparisons are not solely based on color. I see where you are coming from, throaty, because Taylor and JJ definitely have different styles, but I think it really just comes down to the three-point shot and both having unlimited range.

If the comparisons were simply based completely on a white guy who can hit from 30-plus, then Chris Collins' name would have been thrown around as well. I think we are seeing the Redick-King comparions mostly, however, because of how recently JJ left campus. Basically, we are just comparing him to the last great Duke three-point shooter.

Hell, I could even see a little bit of Teyshaun Prince in the effortless way in which Taylor cans triples from 30 feet, in an almost awkward forward's body. Prince could stretch defenses literally to half-court at UK. Ask UNC:)

As for Quincy Douby, though, I'm not sure I've ever seen a college level player have less of a conscience. John Starks wins the all-level debate, hands down. That's not even a debate. That guy was out of his mind while playing for the Knicks. Even in the midst of an 0 for 9 effort, Starks would pull up five steps behind the NBA arc, with two guys stapled to his jersey. Douby, though, he was amazing to watch. He hit one in the Garden a couple of years ago, during the Big East Tournament, from a legit 35 feet, with two long arms pressing his face. To adapt to the on ball pressure that far out, Douby simply shot it about ten feet above the rim before it finally fell through. The sickest rainbow triple I have ever seen. Besides, the guy routinely played his games with one long red t-shirt sleeve draping down to his wrist while the other rolled up under his jersey. How freakin' cool is that:)