Hurley Horse Happenings - Dagger

[DevilHorse]

Greetings horse lovers for another season of Hurley Horse Happenings for 2007.

I try to scan the stakes races for Bob Hurley's horses, perhaps a few of the notable descendents of his stallion (Songandaprayer), and a few horses with peculiarly Duke names (e.g., Duke's Cherokee) and keep them visible for those of you (one or two) who might be interested.

Stream Cat made his seasonal debut in an Allowance race at Keeneland on Friday. The field was quite stiff, including $4.6 Million dollar winner Perfect Drift. Stream Cat won.
Those interested in the chart can find it at:
http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=KEE&country=USA&raceDate=20070414&raceNo=4

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Stream Cat had his second outing of the season in the Ben Ali Handicap at Keeneland. He finished 4th. In the horse biz, we say "He got a check!".

You can see the results of the race at:
http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=KEE&country=USA&raceDate=20070426&raceNo=8

If you're interested in seeing the racing form in advance of such races, leave a note and I'll leave a pointer when I can find a freebee on the web.
We'll see if this gets through:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/georgeweaver_72634.pdf

Larry

[gw67]

Where does Bobby keep his horses? Last summer, while at the beach, I accompanied a close friend to the northern part of Delaware to pick up his daughter and passed several horse farms and stables. I wondered at the time whether Hurley kept his horses in either New Jersey or Delaware.

gw67

[wilson]

Any chance of Bobby having a horse in the Kentucky Derby this year?

[DevilHorse]

>> Any chance of Bobby having a horse in the Kentucky Derby this year?

Not unless he, and perhaps a partner, decides to fork over 7 figures for one of the leading 20 horses. To qualify for the Derby you need to be one of the top 20 horses by earnings in Graded Stakes. I haven't seen BH's name associated with any horse's on the Derby trail of that caliber. Buying a piece, or a whole, part of a horse is not unheard of in the days before the derby, but it is usually quite expensive

>> Where does Bobby keep his horses? Last summer, while at the beach, I accompanied a close friend to the northern part of Delaware to pick up his daughter and passed several horse farms and stables. I wondered at the time whether Hurley kept his horses in either New Jersey or Delaware.

I don't know for sure, but most probably their base of operations is in Florida. It is more hospitable year round down there, and that is where his stud is.
His stakes horses, which are easier for me to notice, are the more likely ones to be traveling from track to track. I look at the stakes races mostly so I'm less likely to find the Hurley horses that are small time performers at local tracks.

With the Breeder's Cup at Monmouth Park in NJ his trainer may have a stable of horses up here in NJ for the summer. They are likely to have a good schedule of prep races and during the summer and fall there will be access to Saratoga, Belmont, and The Meadowlands for shipping to other stakes. It should be a very interesting year. We'll keep an eye out.

Larry
Devilhorse

[DevilHorse]

Greetings Turfers!

Bob Hurley's Stream Cat has been working recently toward the Stars and Stripes Turf Handicap at Arlington Park on..... July 4, 2007.

Most recently, Stream Cat worked 5 Furlongs at Keeneland on 6/30/07 in 1:01.00

If you're interested in seeing the past performances, you can get a free copy of it from Brisnet from this URL:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/hgrahammotion_79192.pdf

Good Luck to Stream Cat.

Feel free to post any questions or comments.

Larry
aka, Devilhorse

[DukeDude]

Any chance of a Hurley sighting at Saratoga this year?

[DevilHorse]

Of course there is always a chance....:)

They have one of the glamour yearling sales of the year up at the spa.
So if he is looking for yearlings, that is one of several places to do it.
But it is quite pricey!

As far as racing goes, I don't recall if any of his horses have raced there before. They are more likely to race during the summer at Monmouth in NJ (perhaps for obvious reasons).

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Stream Cat Finished 3rd.
It looked like a good effort as the 4th choice.
The chart is shown here:

http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=AP&country=USA&raceDate=20070704&raceNo=9

The connections collect $21K for the effort.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Jealous Rage is entered to Race at Woodbine Raceway on Friday the 13th at Woodbine Raceway in race 2. Sorry, now free Past Performances spotted for this race (yet). This is a 6.5 furlong race for $30.7K (Canadian).

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Jealous Rage ran 2nd at her race at Woodbine. The results can be seen here.
http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=WO&country=CAN&raceDate=20070713&raceNo=2

Although I would note that Bob Hurley is no longer listed as an owner, so he either owns a silent minority, or he sold the horse.
Jealous Rage's race result is shown here:
http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=WO&CTY=CAN&DATE=20070713&RN=2


In better news, Praying For Cash WON in his seasonal debut at 6.5 furlongs at Belmont Park! I saw the race and it was a snappy performance.
Praying For Cash is exclusively owned by Bob Hurley and is out of Bob's stud Songandaprayer.
The race results are shown here:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-07-13&track=BEL&country=USA&race=3&type=inc&print=on

The Previous Performance Pages are here:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/dogwoodstable_80604.pdf

Larry
Devilhorse

[Indoor66]

Jealous Rage ran 2nd at her race at Woodbine. The results can be seen here.
http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=WO&country=CAN&raceDate=20070713&raceNo=2

Although I would note that Bob Hurley is no longer listed as an owner, so he either owns a silent minority, or he sold the horse.
Jealous Rage's race result is shown here:
http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=WO&CTY=CAN&DATE=20070713&RN=2


In better news, Praying For Cash WON in his seasonal debut at 6.5 furlongs at Belmont Park! I saw the race and it was a snappy performance.
Praying For Cash is exclusively owned by Bob Hurley and is out of Bob's stud Songandaprayer.
The race results are shown here:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-07-13&track=BEL&country=USA&race=3&type=inc&print=on

The Previous Performance Pages are here:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/dogwoodstable_80604.pdf

Larry
Devilhorse

...and I have been "Praying for Cash" for years. Glad I got a bet down.... :)

[DevilHorse]

Hurley stable alum Stream Cat will take a big step up in company when he enters the Arlington Million at Arlington Park this saturday (8/11/07).
Free Past Performances are available here:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/toddpletcher_83588.pdf

Now racing under the ownership of Fab Oak Stable.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

1) Stream Cat continues to be owned in part by Bobby Hurley. This fact was confirmed on ABC where the race was covered.

2) Stream Cat ran a very impressive race against some of the best turfers in the world, finishing a closing 4th by slightly less than a length. The results can be read here.
http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=AP&country=USA&raceDate=20070811&raceNo=9

The result has to be encouraging for the connections of this horse.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Praying For Cash will be racing in the Forego Handicap this saturday 9/1/07 at Saratoga. You can get the past performance sheets at this URL.
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/baffert_85934.pdf

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Praying For Cash had a short lead early. He was 12-1 odds and was out classed by superior sprinters in this 7 furlong race. The top 2 horses were much the best. PFC finished in with a group of horses. I'd call it an uninspired race for this horse.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

On Saturday, Bob Hurley's Stream Cat will be racing at Turfway Park in the Kentucky Cup Classic for a purse of $350,000. This will be an elite 5 horse field that includes <drum roll please> this year's Kentucky Derby winner Street Sense and top Triple Crown participant Hard Spun as they tune up for the Breeder's Cup here in lovely New Jersey at Monmouth Park later in October.
- Stream Cat had an excellent start last time out, finishing 4th in the Arlington Million by less than a length; he could be improving toward a great effort (or not).
- Street Sense has been nothing short of brilliant this year, and this is his 3rd race back after a short break from the triple crown races (obviously the one to beat).
- Hard Spun has been trying the turf, successfully, but returns to the dirt to see if a few months has improved his chances; I'd expect that if he doesn't win this race against Street Sense, you'll see Hard Spun in the Breeder's Cup Turf for $2 Million instead of the Classic.
- There are 2 other horses in the race, but who are we kidding, their riders will have a great view of the finish.
Stream Cat will need to be near the pace to have any shot. This is a very tall order.

Here is a URL for the past performance sheets, courtesy of BrisWatch:

http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/darley_88814.pdf

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Well, Stream Cat finished 3rd, some 4.5 lengths behind the (slight) upset winner Hard Spun. The top two horses finished 1/2 (actually 2/1) in this years Kentucky Derby, so finishing some 4.5 lengths back is no disgrace. The race was 1/5 of a second off of the track record, so it was a very well run race. But Stream Cat is a notch or two below the top two.

The connections will have to deal with the $35K consolation prize :^)

Here is the race result:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-09-29&track=TP&country=USA&race=10&type=inc&print=on

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Greetings GG followers,

Praying For Cash will be running in the Meadowlands Cup this friday (Oct 5, 2007) at the Meadowlands. This will not be an easy task. This is a field of 7 with several seasoned, and excellent, performers most notably Magna Graduate. But the 1 and 1/8 furlong distance seems to suit PFC, so I'd give him a shot at a check.

The past performances can be found here thanks to Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/toddpletcher_89824.pdf

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

Praying For Cash was in it early in the race but gave way to better horses. He had the best view of the remaining horses :^)
Sometimes it just happens that way in horse racing.

Here are the results:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-10-05&track=MED&country=USA&race=9&type=inc&print=on

Larry

[DevilAlumna]

Hi Devilhorse,

I just want to say, thanks for posting on Hurley's horse happenings! I'm not a huge racing fan, but love Bobby, so I appreciate the news!

--DevilAlumna

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

Stream Cat is entered in the 7th race at Keeneland on Saturday 27, 2007.
Past performances are available here, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/hgrahammotion_92301.pdf

Stream Cat has been racing with some of the world's best horses. He comes back to a more manageable field. Stream Cat is one of the favorites for the race and figures to get a check (top 4) if he is on his game. There is one tiger in the race (Brass Hat) who also raced against top horses and did not fair well. These horses could fill out the exacta.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

I just caught the Breeder and Owner of Nownownow, who is entered in the inaugural Breeders Cup Juvenile Turf race at Monmouth Park this afternoon.
It is Fab Oak Stable, which includes Bobby Hurley as a major partner.

Here is the Past Performance sheets, courtesy of Brisnet:

http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/toddpletcher_91518.pdf

In fact, the horse just won the race in a last to first sweep of the field!

This is big time!
The Breeder's Cup is the World Championships of thoroughbred racing.
To breed and own a winner of a race like this is outstanding!

I see Bobby and Danny in the winners picture.

Big
It is a big payday ($540K), although since these are young horses who have less turf experience than the other 2 year olds have dirt experience, it might not portend great things in the future. But who cares. Nownownow has just paid for himself bigtime.

Very exciting.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-10-26&track=MTH&country=USA&race=9&type=inc&print=on

[Lavabe]

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-10-26&track=MTH&country=USA&race=9&type=inc&print=on

Sweet! Over a yielding turf course, coming from seventh position at the top of the stretch.

ANy shot that any other former Duke basketball player ever teams up with Hurley in the horse business?

Cheers,
Lavabe

[DevilHorse]

I have seen no hint of interest by other former Duke players in the horse racing industry, so I would doubt Bobby Hurley has any possible partners from old team mates. There are other basketball players of note though. Sam Bowie is a well known standardbred (harness horses) owner. You should see Sam in the training bike. Rick Robie worked at Claiborne farms (famous thoroughbred breeding farm), but I'm not sure he ever owned.

There are many other sports figures that own horses. I'm most familiar with the Standardbreds. George Foreman and Wayne Crebet (ex-Jet receiver) are owners. There are others.

P. J. Baugh, who used to be a big contributor, and perhaps a graduate, of the Fuqua School of Business (before it was Fuqua) was the President of Almahurst Farms, a well known Standardbred breeding farm.

Larry
Harness, The Experience

[DevilHorse]

Midnight Lute just won the $2 million dollar Breeder's Cup Sprint.
The horse is co-owned by a fellow (Paul Whiteman I think they said on the telecast) whose Best Friend is Lute Olsen.
The name "Midnight Lute" is what Jerry Tarkanian nicknamed Olsen because of his ability to "swoop in" and grab recruits at the last minute.

Additionally, the broodmare sire (the dam's father) is named "Dehere" after Terry Dehere of Seton Hall fame (a Danny Hurley team mate). Dehere was actually named by Bob Brennan who was a graduate of Seton Hall and eventually became famous for selling junk bonds (and also eventually was incarcerated for illegal price gouging and abusive sales practices).
Dehere's (the horse's, not the player's) broodmare sire was Secretariat, whom I mention before was tended to by Rick Robie of Kentucky.

And BTW Danny Hurley is the brother to Bobby Hurley, so I brought the story back to a Duke connection :^)

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Stream Cat finished 2nd today.
Looks like he came from way out of it, and just missed getting up.

Here is the race chart, with details, courtesy of the Daily RAcing Form.

http://www.drf.com/drfNCWeeklyHorseDisplay.do?track=KEE&country=USA&raceDate=20071027&raceNo=7

Larry

[dukemomLA]

Although I don't often reply to your threads, please know that there are many race fans here in SoCal, who visit Santa Anita, Del Mar, and Hollywood on a regular basis.

Thanks for all your posts. They are appreciated.

[DevilHorse]

Thanks DevilMomLA for that feedback.
I attempt to surmise the interest by the number of hits the Subject gets before it falls off the first page, but a direct comment on the subject or just feedback is very welcome.

I also try to add a new Subject line before the board owners combine it the original thread; the horse information obviously does get stale :D, so I'm not sure of the value of the early parts of the thread.

I did find a new Hurley horse though, he raced well yesterday finishing 2nd at Keeneland.
The name is Dagger. He is a nice looking 2 year old. He's by Tactical Cat and has a 5x5 cross to Raise A Native (Pedigrees are what I like most :^).
The horse is owned by Devil Eleven Stables, which Bobby Hurley started and continues to manage.

Here is the resulting chart:
http://www.drf.com/drfPDFChartRacesIndexAction.do?TRK=DEL&CTY=USA&DATE=20071027&RN=8

Larry

[Lavabe]

I did find a new Hurley horse though, he raced well yesterday finishing 2nd at Keeneland.
The name is Dagger. He is a nice looking 2 year old. He's by Tactical Cat and has a 5x5 cross to Raise A Native (Pedigrees are what I like most :^).
The horse is owned by Devil Eleven Stables, which Bobby Hurley started and continues to manage.


So in just how many stables is Hurley an owner/part-owner/manager? We'd like to keep track of the news, but it is getting confusing.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[1Devil]

I guess what I'm curious about is whether there is money to be made in horse racing at the level at which Bobby is participating (or at any level, for that matter). I'm sure no one here knows Bobby's financials, but I would guess that very few make money. Seems like you need to hit the stud jackpot with an accomplished horse.

[Lavabe]

I guess what I'm curious about is whether there is money to be made in horse racing at the level at which Bobby is participating (or at any level, for that matter). I'm sure no one here knows Bobby's financials, but I would guess that very few make money. Seems like you need to hit the stud jackpot with an accomplished horse.

My understanding is that your prospects of earning money through horse breeding increase remarkably if a horse (other than a gelding) wins/places in a Grade I Stakes race ... which is why the win the other day is SO important. The prize earnings for the race are nice too, but there's a lot of money going on with the breeding business.

What I thought was stunning was that one of yesterday's Breeder's Cup winners was a supplemental entry. The owners had to cough up $300,000 or so just to race ... and they won, more than recouping their late entry fee.

I'll defer to whatever Larry says, but a stellar stakes performance does wonders for a stable, a breeder, and all connections.

Larry: Was that really Laffit Pincay III on the televised coverage? I suddenly feel VERY old.
Cheers,
Lavabe

[DevilHorse]

As far as Hurley's Stables, he has a number of them that he is involved with.
- Devil Eleven Stable
- Team Derby Dreams Stable
- Fab Oak Stable

A few comments on each:

Devil Eleven Stable has horses that race. Hurley and 11, ring a bell? What usually happens in large partnerships is a large stable is created and people can buy percentages of some of the horses in the stable, somewhat ad hoc (you like fillies, then you only buy a piece of fillies, etc..). You pay a premium for others (assumed to be knowledgeable) to manage the horse, and usually with a plan to sell it at some point in time. It looks like this stable is focused on breeding and racing. Breeding takes much more patience and up front money. Mares have stud fees, and young horses (once weaned) have additional costs every month before they can earn a dime; so it is not for the faint of heart or short of cash. They do sell at least some of their yearlings.
You can search their name to find more information, although I haven't found a web site per se.

Team Derby Dream, as far as I can tell, is oriented toward racing. They originally owned Stream Cat wholly, and sold part to Fab Oak Stable become partners.

Fab Oak Stable was started by a French designer, and it isn't obvious to me if Hurley is part of that or not. He and his brother were recognizable and mentioned at the Breeder's Cup, but they weren't listed independently.

As for other answers, there is nothing that will substitute for having the partnership of a acute judge of horseflesh. This is usually a trusted trainer. There are many rich people who spend tons of money and operate at a loss every year (not the tax deduction it used to be). Buying a well bred, well conformed horse will cost more than one who is not (obviously), so having money increases your chances of being successful. Seattle Slew was purchased for $17.5K and at one time was worth about $300Million when you considered the value of his shares; so great horses can come from humble beginnings.

An old adage we had was that one in ten horses would make money for you; a few in ten might break even. But if you get a good one, they would pay for the whole shebang.

Winning a stakes race is good, placing in a graded stakes race (there is a grading system for the most competitive races) is better, winning a graded stakes race, especially a Grade I, will buy you a shot at stud. But there are still opportunities for a minor stud in some of the smaller (racing) states. But the stud market is not very forgiving; if your horse does not produce in the first couple of years, you can expect the stud fee to drop precipitously and the number of breedings to dry up. This assumes that you had a horse that had some interest to begin with. Remember that most of these successful horses have a 20 year stud career, so you are competing against the best of 20 generations of horses, not just the one or two generations that would race with you at the track.

Laffit Pincay III is a telecaster on HRTV (a 24 hour horse racing station). I wasn't aware of him as a rider, although with his father being a Hall Of Fame rider you never know.

Hopefully just a tad more than you wanted to know :rolleyes:

Larry

[Lavabe]

Laffit Pincay III is a telecaster on HRTV (a 24 hour horse racing station). I wasn't aware of him as a rider, although with his father being a Hall Of Fame rider you never know.


Thanks Larry for the info.

As we don't get HRTV down here (occasionally TVG pops up), I was just stunned to see LP3 announcing ... and hearing the name. They could have said Angel Cordero III, and I'd have been just as stunned.

I guess the risks of the investment were brought out yesterday in the classic. WHY did the owners bring back to racing George Washington (the one that was put down after yesterday's classic)? Hindsight being 20/20...

The weird thing is that horses don't readily break down that often, but there's been a string of them in high profile races. Any explanation?

Talk about a risky investment!
Cheers,
Lavabe

[DevilHorse]

In the case of George Washington (the horse), he may have gotten only one or two mares in foal this year; so he was essentially infertile. A number of times it takes a few years for the fertility to kick in (if it ever does); horses such as Lure (famous miler) were infertile the first time out, but eventually became moderately fertile. So what do you do with a young horse that is great on the track and useless int he breeding shed; you bring him back to race. Few questioned that decision. In fact, there are many people who bemoan the star 3 year olds always going off to the breeding shed and not racing as older horses. The fans who forged a connection with horse racing through the triple crown races would not know anyone in the older horse rankings. But it is tough to say no to the kind of money they are talking about, and the relative safety of being on a farm for the horse. In fact, for some great horses, the insurance cost to race is just slightly less costly than what they win. George Washington's value was no doubt lowered by his fertility problems.

[JasonEvans]

Thanks DevilMomLA for that feedback.
I attempt to surmise the interest by the number of hits the Subject gets before it falls off the first page, but a direct comment on the subject or just feedback is very welcome.

I also try to add a new Subject line before the board owners combine it the original thread; the horse information obviously does get stale :D, so I'm not sure of the value of the early parts of the thread.


Larry,

I think your posts get combined into one thread because it is useful to have context and perspective on past comments when reading current comments. We follow that pattern with a lot of threads. It is not done to hold down the conversation or hide new posts. In fact, I know I speak for many of the moderators when I say that your reports on Hurley's Horse Happenings are an excellent contribution to the board that I always read.

-Jason

[DevilHorse]

Jason,

I appreciate your comments.

I would propose to revisit whether to reStart the thread, perhaps once per year in the early spring (derby trail). Just to keep it fresh.

It also isn't obvious if I should include some non-Hurley, but possibly Duke related horses, into this same thread. There was Dukes Cherokee and a Jays Will running around a year ago that might have been of marginal interest. But many of these horses change hands and are not owned by the person who named them (thus making it less interesting).

All comments are welcome.

Larry

[throatybeard]

I would propose to revisit whether to reStart the thread, perhaps once per year in the early spring (derby trail). Just to keep it fresh.

Not a bad idea. Also, we've been incorporating your new subject lines into the revised subject line of the collector thread.

[DevilHorse]

Not a bad idea. Also, we've been incorporating your new subject lines into the revised subject line of the collector thread.

Indeed. Having the more recent marquis announcement posted as the Subject will best serve those who are interested. 5 month old race lines are not much of a draw ;)

I'll continue posting the new Subject lines when new events come up, unless advised otherwise.

Thanks.

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Folks,

I noticed this very interesting series of harness races being held at Pocono Downs.
They run a series of Late Closers, which are races that owners put up some money (stakes payment), a couple of months in advance of the races, and then they get to race in divisions of similarly qualified horses for greater purses and perhaps for multiple weeks. This is useful since it is sometimes hard to get your horse a starting spot week after week.

Anyway, I noticed the Duke vs. NC (sic) late closer the other day and investigated it, and found an interesting explanation for the race's title:


DUKE-NORTH CAROLINA PACE: The Trackman’s brother is a Duke alumnus, so I hear about this rivalry every Sunday at dinner. Tuesday’s two divisions of this medium-priced claiming-series were both won by favorites. Four Starzzzz Opus was as smooth as Johnny Dawkins jumper, going gate-to-wire for a win in 1:55, and then Fox Valley Assault, the Monticello shipper, powered out of the pocket like Tyler Hansbrough going for an offensive rebound to win his split in 1:55:1. (I know I dated myself with the first reference, but the second tells you that I’m pumped for college hoops to begin.)

Other rivalry races include the Yankees/Red Sox pace, the Bird/Magic pace, the Michigan/Ohio State Trot, and the Tiger/Phil pace.

If you'd like to read up on the other races, click here:
http://www.poconodowns.com/staticPress/index.jsp?id=10192006

Larry

[DevilHorse]

Greetings equine efficionados,

Bob Hurley's 2 year old filly Dagger will be racing in the Selima Stakes at Laurel. This is the filly companion stake race to the once great Laurel Futurity. These races have lost their stature a bit with the advent of the Breeders Cup. I can remember taking a trip up to Laurel, right after my first semester mid-terms to see the Laurel Futurity (only a 4 hour drive). On that day I saw a precocious Spectacular Bid beat the following year's foe General Assembly in that race. That was probably the race where we knew Bid wasn't a fluke.

Anyhow, here is the Past Performance Page, courtesy of BrisWatch:
http://www.brisnet.com/bris_link/pdfs/vinery_95200.pdf

There are a couple of fillies who look as good if not better than Dagger on paper, but this is a time of the year when, much like our freshman basketball players, some of these 2 year olds find themselves and announce they have arrived.

Larry
DH

[DevilHorse]

Well, Dagger did a nice job getting a 4th place check. The players sent Dagger out at 30 to 1, but she did a good job finishing 5 lengths back.

This was a turf race, so it was something new for Dagger. She started the race just off the pace (in 2nd) and held on pretty well. I'd look for her to continue to gain in strength and be a good stakes caliber 3 year old.

Here is the chart, courtesy of Brisnet:
http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/instant.cgi?date=2007-11-24&track=LRL&country=USA&race=7&type=inc&print=on

Larry
DevilHorse

[CameronBlue]

Larry,

For those of us without your horse sense, please explain the difference between a turf race and a stakes race. Thanks.

[Lavabe]

Larry,

For those of us without your horse sense, please explain the difference between a turf race and a stakes race. Thanks.

TURF refers to the type of track surface. In this case (Dagger's most recent race), they ran on the turf (grass), as opposed to the dirt.

STAKES refers to the quality of competition: Maiden (non-winners), Claiming, Allowance, Stakes, Graded Stakes, and Handicap refer to different levels of competition ... and within these categories, you can have other levels. You can also find different levels based on where the horses were bred (e.g., stakes races for horses bred in a track's state).

Weights that the horses carry may be adjusted in each of the levels ... whereas many stakes races adjust weight by age or sex of the horse, the track decides on the weight in the case of handicaps.

SO, you may have a stakes race on the turf. But not all races on the turf are stakes quality. Likewise, not all stakes races are on the turf.

Cheers,
Lavabe

[DevilHorse]

TURF refers to the type of track surface. In this case (Dagger's most recent race), they ran on the turf (grass), as opposed to the dirt.

STAKES refers to the quality of competition: Maiden (non-winners), Claiming, Allowance, Stakes, Graded Stakes, and Handicap refer to different levels of competition ... and within these categories, you can have other levels. You can also find different levels based on where the horses were bred (e.g., stakes races for horses bred in a track's state).

Weights that the horses carry may be adjusted in each of the levels ... whereas many stakes races adjust weight by age or sex of the horse, the track decides on the weight in the case of handicaps.

SO, you may have a stakes race on the turf. But not all races on the turf are stakes quality. Likewise, not all stakes races are on the turf.

Cheers,
Lavabe


Lavabe is 100% correct in his statements (thank you).

I'll add a few comments.

There are turf pedigrees and dirt pedigrees, so some horses might be more apt, or have potential, based on their parentage. Size of hoof and style of gait can work better on the turf than dirt.

Turf races tend to be longer than dirt races, and as such, they are usually run
differently. Turf races, on average, have a paced race where there is relatively little movement in the field, until you get in the home stretch where a mad sprint appears. Dirt racing more often has a few horses that try to burn the rest of the horses on the front end (evident by there rarely being any negative splits [faster last quarter than earlier quarters] in dirt races).

Some horses excel on both surfaces (Secretariat set world records on the dirt and turf, and he had both a dirt (Bold Ruler) and turf (Princequillo as broodmare sire) in his pedigree. And others "wake up" on either surface and "stink" on the other. John Henry, a multi-millionaire and horse of the year, was average on the dirt; when he went on the "weeds" he became the best turfer in this country.

Keep those cards and letters coming.;)

Larry

[CameronBlue]

Thanks guys.

[throatybeard]

John Henry just died, didn't he?