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NYC Duke Fan
11-20-2007, 03:54 AM
I remember last year when Love signed on with UCLA, there were posts saying how glad we were that he was not coming to Duke...something about his personality...his father etc.

I saw him play last night against Maryland and he is the real deal even if he opts out after 1 year,( although I think that he will stay for 2).

Had he come to Duke along with Singler and Smith, I think that we would be serious contenders for a national title.

If I am not mistaken, didn't he and Coach K have some sort of falling out the beginning of his senior year. What was that all about ?

STLDukeFan4
11-20-2007, 04:11 AM
I don't know about a falling out with Coach K but I do know that in high school, Love missed school which, according to the rules, forces you to miss practice. As the rules go, if you miss practice, you can't start (or maybe play at all, not sure) in the next game. So when Kevin Love didn't play the next game, his dad went around the school posting "Fire Shoff" stickers (shoff is the name of his high school coach).

"When Shoff called Love into his office to inform him of his father's bizarre behavior, Eggers reports, Stan Love hired a lawyer and took out a restraining order forbidding the coach from communicating with his son, the media or recruiters. He then threatened to transfer Kevin to another school unless Shoff was fired."

I dont know if that had anything to do with recruiting, just knew it was something that came up.

I don't really like Kevin Love so far, but you can't really deny that he is a very very good basketball player.

Bob Green
11-20-2007, 06:20 AM
Kevin Love is a quality big man and UCLA is a national title contender. I don't know anything about a Coach K/Love falling out but remember quite clearly that Duke backed off recruiting Love at a certain point.

jlear
11-20-2007, 06:51 AM
Had he come to Duke along with Singler and Smith, I think that we would be serious contenders for a national title.


Some of us think we are serious contenders without him.

YmoBeThere
11-20-2007, 07:46 AM
I didn't get to watch much of the UCLA game, but was Love stuck to the floor?

gw67
11-20-2007, 08:00 AM
I presume that you're asking whether he played beneath the rim. The answer is yes. Oh, and I believe that he got 16 rebounds and 18 points while the two Maryland frontcourt players, who play above the rim, got a total of four rebounds in many more minutes. Love, like Hansbrough, is an outstanding college player although he gets by without being a strong leaper. Whether he has the size or athleticism to play the 24 second game is another matter.

As I posted over a year ago, I find the stories about his dad odd. Stan Love played for the Bullets and was a very laid back guy. In fact, that was a criticism of his personality and play.

gw67

Troublemaker
11-20-2007, 08:16 AM
It was hella disappointing to me when Duke stopped recruiting him. I mean, when you're talking about the most polished big guy to come out of HS in years, and he's a bit of a Duke fan, and he wants very badly to play with Kyle Singler, your top recruit and Duke-lean, you would hope it would work out where he'd end up in a Duke uniform. Alas, that wasn't the case. Whether it was his dad or his mindset (NBA, 1-and-done for sure?) or something else, we stopped recruiting him.

Now, having said that, obviously while he is playing great for UCLA as expected and the Bruins will look like even more of a title contender when Collison returns, it doesn't mean that the same situation would be true if he were at Duke. You can't just transfer his skills to Duke in a vacuum. It's possible he wouldn't be playing as well at Duke or some of Duke's players wouldn't be playing as well with him on the team or his presence would create a rift somehow. And I'm not saying he's a cancer or his dad's a cancer or he's a selfish player. He's obviously a very talented player that makes players around him better. However, it's the match that was wrong, Love-and-Duke. And the thing is, whatever the reason was that we stopped recruiting him, that reason would surely manifest itself again and cause problems if he were in Durham. So, again, you can't just transfer his skills over in a vacuum. Even though his skills would obviously be valued here.

novablue4
11-20-2007, 08:54 AM
I have no idea why K decided to back off this extremely talented big man. A taller Rodney McCray is what I see and for those who don't know who Rodney is, well let's say Nolan Smith does!!! I remember that because Love wanted to go to the Reebok Camp because he felt more and better big men were there, that Nike intially took their sponsorship of uniforms, warm ups, and shoes away from Lake Oswego High School. They wanted him at Nike camp by golly! Of course Duke and Coach K are Nike affiliated. This lead to the end of shoes camps in many ways, it was kind of a last straw.

novablue4
11-20-2007, 09:00 AM
Hope you enjoy Nippon life. I have never been and my mother was very prejudiced against the Japanese people. I often asked her why not the Italians, Romanians, and Germans??? But it was just that most of "the boys" she knew as a high school girl ended up in the Pacific Theatre. Most did not return. Fortunately my father did despite Tinian and Iwakuni.

Go Blue Devils!

Novablue4
Navy Federal Credit Union
Vienna, VA

Patrick Yates
11-20-2007, 09:05 AM
Enough with the revisionist history. K-Love is NOT a good guy. K stopped recruiting him for a reason, and Roy only made a token effort with the kid to appease fans.

I never read where K-Love wanted to play with Singler. By most accounts, they can barely stand each other. They were huge rivals in HS, and played for the state title as Jr's and Sr's. After their Sr year, when Singler led his team to the title over Love, Singler was named co-Mr. Basketball in Oregon, along with Love. Meanwhile, Love won most of the national awards for being best player in the nation (solely because Mike Beasely and OJ Mayo, both clearly superior talents, are also grade-A jerkwads on and off court). When Singler split the state award, Love pitched the most god awful hissy fit. Rather than say it was an honor to split the award with a deserving player, he basically said the state media were retards.

As to why we quit recruiting him? Reportedly he (read: his dad) made very specific demands regarding Playing time (lots) and shots (even more). That has never played well with K.

He has also defended Mayo to the national press saying that Mayo's gunner status was ok, and that Mayo was a good guy, and that Love would "have OJ's back" in LA. That lasted until the punch, when national sentiment really turned against OJ, and so did Love. He is not a stand up guy. Not a Duke guy.

Could we use Love? Sure. Everyone could use a kid like this. But I think he will be a problem in the locker room that will ultimately prevent UCLA from winning it all, despite having the talent to do so. At Duke he would be no different.

But, above all, Love is not a guy willing to be coached. He and K would not have co-existed. Remember the chemistry problems from last year? With Love they would still exist. He is at UCLA, more power to him.


Patrick Yates

Troublemaker
11-20-2007, 09:11 AM
Dude, for someone who follows recruiting intently, you could do a much better job following recruiting. Trust me, Love had a man-crush on Singler. That whole issue about the Oregon POY award, it happened after it was evident that they would be going separate ways for college. Also, Howland raves about Love and what an overall great kid he is. That said, everything I said above about not being able to transfer him over in a vacuum still stands.

Clipsfan
11-20-2007, 09:14 AM
I've seen Love play live in a couple games this year and noticed a couple things. First, he definitely plays below the rim. I watched last night's game on TV and it looked like he went to dunk once (and was fouled) but in general he doesn't even attempt that. His rebounds are based upon positioning, not getting vertical, although he did a great job last night. In the first couple of games (against poor competition) he was actually pushed around a decent amount and struggled to get the rebounds at times. He still had 13 or so in his first official game.

I have a small problem with the way he presents himself on the court, but in general he looks like he just goes out there and plays hard. However, after getting fouled in the early games he would take his time walking to the line and would even cross half court most times. This seemed a little excessive, although perhaps he felt that he was getting fouled too hard. In contrast, after making the really nice putback at the end of the first half last night he just jogged off the court (like we would expect a Duke player to do) which seemed like the complete opposite. Maybe Howland say him down like you would hope and told him to stop making himself look bad.

Ignatius07
11-20-2007, 09:26 AM
I think you all are remembering Love's comments about Singler incorrectly. He expressed skepticism about how someone could win multiple NPOY awards and split the state POY award, but it was hardly "pitching a hissy fit" or whatever was said. Could he have acted with more grace? Yes. But I think that episode was viewed the way it was because of the rumors concerning his attitude. That said, I trust K's judgment on this matter. He obviously knew Love is a considerable talent. If Love's attitude was enough to dissuade us from recruiting him, he must have been a potentially huge problem.

pamtar
11-20-2007, 10:32 AM
Love's dirty beard is enough reason not to have recruited him. And from everything I've read he is an Ultra Jerk.

Phone call to Ben Howland:

K-love's dad (in a lispy pornstar voice) - Coach, the lovester is gonna play fo' you fo' one year. He will get mo' minutes than anyone else and you will have six bottles of fresh, unscented baby powder available to him before and after every game.

ugadevil
11-20-2007, 11:19 AM
Maybe it's just me, maybe it was the TV cameras, maybe it was the UCLA uniforms...but did anyone else think Kevin Love looked a little heavy? Last night was the first time I'd seen Love play and I was surprised at his size and thought that he looked big in the mid-section. I'm not saying that it mattered because he definitely didn't have a tough time dominating in the post. Maybe I'm so used to seeing freshmen who are rail-thin that it's surprising to see someone come straight out of high school with a bigger body. Still, am I the only one who thought this about Love?

Clipsfan
11-20-2007, 01:25 PM
Maybe it's just me, maybe it was the TV cameras, maybe it was the UCLA uniforms...but did anyone else think Kevin Love looked a little heavy? Last night was the first time I'd seen Love play and I was surprised at his size and thought that he looked big in the mid-section. I'm not saying that it mattered because he definitely didn't have a tough time dominating in the post. Maybe I'm so used to seeing freshmen who are rail-thin that it's surprising to see someone come straight out of high school with a bigger body. Still, am I the only one who thought this about Love?

He looks big, but I haven't thought that he looked overly heavy (and I'm not only talking Nigel Dixon for example). He isn't ripped, but I didn't notice any Shaq-like belly.

SilkyJ
11-20-2007, 01:30 PM
Dude, for someone who follows recruiting intently, you could do a much better job following recruiting. Trust me, Love had a man-crush on Singler. That whole issue about the Oregon POY award, it happened after it was evident that they would be going separate ways for college. Also, Howland raves about Love and what an overall great kid he is. That said, everything I said above about not being able to transfer him over in a vacuum still stands.

I never heard this and I thought that he even switched AAU teams b/c he didn't want to play alongside Kyle and share the spotlight. Do you have sources/links to back this up?

weezie
11-20-2007, 01:47 PM
Yeah, well, whatever.

Dreaming of a possible KLove vs T-Bangs matchup somewhere down the road, providing it doesn't interfere with the Devils progress.....two jerks, equally matched and ready for their close-ups.

Troublemaker
11-20-2007, 02:15 PM
I never heard this and I thought that he even switched AAU teams b/c he didn't want to play alongside Kyle and share the spotlight. Do you have sources/links to back this up?

He switched to an even more loaded AAU team (I think Taylor King played on it as well). As for sources, they're out there but probably hard to find at this point since they're college players now and have many more articles written about them, which clouds the googling. I remember seeing Love talking about wanting to play with Singler in both a local Oregon rag and in some video.

phaedrus
11-20-2007, 02:19 PM
Yeah, well, whatever.

Dreaming of a possible KLove vs T-Bangs matchup somewhere down the road, providing it doesn't interfere with the Devils progress.....two jerks, equally matched and ready for their close-ups.

Here's to hoping it's a second-round, 4 vs. 5 matchup in the tourney. Winner takes on 1 seed Davidson.

throatybeard
11-20-2007, 03:25 PM
Light blue adds ten lbs. Just ask Sean May.

77devil
11-20-2007, 03:49 PM
It never ceases to amaze me how much unsubstantiated information is advanced by so many who have nothing but hearsay to offer. If Coach K decides to back off recruiting someone for whatever reason, so be it; unsubstantiated speculation as to what could have been, or not, and why is totally superfluous.

SoCalDukeFan
11-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Kevin Love is the real deal, certainly for college. I also can not believe that Ben Howland would have recruited him if his father was as much baggage as some suggest.

There are many reasons why K could have backed off. It is a waste of time to speculate unless you have real knowledge.

It is also a waste of time to moan because because Love is not wearing Duke Blue. We have a team that should win a lot of games and play very entertaining basketball. Lets devote our energy to the support of our team.

SoCal

weezie
11-20-2007, 04:31 PM
Here's to hoping it's a second-round, 4 vs. 5 matchup in the tourney. Winner takes on 1 seed Davidson.

;)

Right on with your bad self!

3rdgenDukie
11-20-2007, 05:23 PM
Love has an even bigger ego than K. Wouldn't have worked. In the SI article, it commented that he didn't even win his HS athlete of the year award.....as the nation's top basketball player. My guess is that he is very difficult to like. The fact that he is good buds with Mayo and once commented that he'd consider Kansas State under Huggy Bear, and said he was going to "do LA big, like Leinart, only without fathering a child" combine to give a pretty good impression of what the kid is all about.

cato
11-20-2007, 05:45 PM
. . . and said he was going to "do LA big, like Leinart, only without fathering a child" . . .

Heh. I would guess that a lot of athletes think similar things, and say them to their friends, but try to present a more palatable image to the media.

Billy Dat
11-20-2007, 06:16 PM
I can't believe there is so much 1 and done talk about this kid...much like Psycho T, he plays a big man game at 6'8". Unless you are a once in a lifetime athletic talent (Sir Charles), or a man child (Boozer) or have Inspector Gadget arms (Brand), you aren't doing much but being a practice player in the L trying to play that kind of game sub 6'10". Listen, I've been watching him and really like his game - it's fun just watching his two handed half court rifle passes...but the idea that someone's would throw a lottery pick at him seems crazy...but there are some really poor front offices out there (see Bill Simmons' atrocious GM summit on espn.com....sorry B. King)

juise
11-20-2007, 06:32 PM
Heh. I would guess that a lot of athletes think similar things, and say them to their friends, but try to present a more palatable image to the media.

Good thing it's virtually impossible to "do Durham big."

Duvall
11-20-2007, 06:38 PM
Good thing it's virtually impossible to "do Durham big."

Yes, that could result in an embarrassing situation for the university.

Channing
02-11-2008, 12:11 AM
In a recent thread the question of why K didnt recruit Kevin Love harder came up. Perhaps this quote - from after the UCLA loss to Washington - will shed some light. I really can't see any Duke player trying to deflect blame to his teammates like this:


"I was frustrated," Love said, using the same word he used Thursday after getting only eight shots at Washington State. "I was looking for the ball. ... I felt I was open and my teammates didn't find me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=280410264

pfrduke
02-11-2008, 02:24 AM
In a recent thread the question of why K didnt recruit Kevin Love harder came up. Perhaps this quote - from after the UCLA loss to Washington - will shed some light. I really can't see any Duke player trying to deflect blame to his teammates like this:


"I was frustrated," Love said, using the same word he used Thursday after getting only eight shots at Washington State. "I was looking for the ball. ... I felt I was open and my teammates didn't find me."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=280410264

I was at the UW-UCLA game today, and Signore Amore was most certainly not open. UW did an excellent job against him all afternoon - they fronted the post constantly, but kept Love pinned deep in the key while doing so. It is very, very hard to enter a pass over a defender when the post player is deep in the key. When Love would get better position, UW would sag a defender from the weak side underneath, again making it difficult for the ball to get inside. By doing this, they left the 3-point line wide open. Also contributing to the other open threes was the defense on Collison - whoever was guarding him never left his side, and they were constantly sending help defenders at him (but almost never Love's man) whenever he got into the lane.

UW's defensive strategy worked because a) Collison never figured it out - he kept driving, getting trapped, and turning it over (8 times); b) UCLA was 1-21 from 3; and c) Artem Wallace and Jon Brockman are both ultra-wide bodies who can man-up against Love and rebound the heck out of the ball.

Heck of a game to be at - especially after going to the UW-USC game Thursday night and having to watch OJ Mayo try to pad his stats by driving the lane 1-on-4 with a 20+ point lead and under 2 minutes to play.

BD80
02-11-2008, 08:27 AM
There are many reasons why K could have backed off. It is a waste of time to speculate unless you have real knowledge.



Fortunately I have such "real knowledge." It is true that KLove's dad demanded 45 min/game PT, and at least 16.8 shots per game. He also demanded that KLove be introduced first and be allowed a minute alone with the crowd before the rest of the team was introduced. He was also to have a separate private locker room and two personal attendants. He was also to have a special chair on the bench set about a foot higher than everyone else's chair and with special purple padding and gold trim.

Coach K was fine with these demands.

What caused the schism was the suggestion that "Good Vibrations" be played in the new MWK Center. Coach K scoffed at the suggestion, and replied that the Beatles were the only significant group from that generation and that the Association had better harmonies.

Coach K knew at that point he could no longer recruit a person whose value system was so deeply at odds with his own.

On a side note, there are rumors that there are rumblings of dissension in the UCLA locker room and that recently spies have heard strains of Jan & Dean emanating from the UCLA practice facility.

gw67
02-11-2008, 10:48 AM
I watched the last hour or so of the UCLA game waiting for UNC-Clemson game (I thought it began at 6pm). Jay Bilas keeps playing up Collison as the best point guard in college. We need to get together and buy some glasses for Jay. Collison has the reputation as a defensive stopper but, yesterday, the Washington guard went by him at will and Collison did not impress on offense. This performance was consistent with a UCLA game I watched late last season. IMO, Lawson is a much better all around player and I would take Rice, Vasquez and, perhaps, Singletary before I would take Collison as my point guard.

gw67

CDu
02-11-2008, 10:55 AM
I watched the last hour or so of the UCLA game waiting for UNC-Clemson game (I thought it began at 6pm). Jay Bilas keeps playing up Collison as the best point guard in college. We need to get together and buy some glasses for Jay. Collison has the reputation as a defensive stopper but, yesterday, the Washington guard went by him at will and Collison did not impress on offense. This performance was consistent with a UCLA game I watched late last season. IMO, Lawson is a much better all around player and I would take Rice, Vasquez and, perhaps, Singletary before I would take Collison as my point guard.

gw67

I'd be careful to make such claims. You may be letting one awful performance skew your opinion. If you'd never seen Nelson play defense before, you'd probably think he was a terrible defender based on his struggles against Tyrese Rice this weekend. Good defenders have bad games. Collison built his reputation on more games than just one or two. He shouldn't lose it based on just one or two.

ugadevil
02-11-2008, 10:57 AM
I'd be careful to make such claims. You may be letting one awful performance skew your opinion. If you'd never seen Nelson play defense before, you'd probably think he was a terrible defender based on his struggles against Tyrese Rice this weekend. Good defenders have bad games. Collison built his reputation on more games than just one or two. He shouldn't lose it based on just one or two.


If I were just going on this weekend, I'd say Tyrese Rice is the best point guard in the country. He was ridiculous!

Classof06
02-11-2008, 11:37 AM
I watched the last hour or so of the UCLA game waiting for UNC-Clemson game (I thought it began at 6pm). Jay Bilas keeps playing up Collison as the best point guard in college. We need to get together and buy some glasses for Jay. Collison has the reputation as a defensive stopper but, yesterday, the Washington guard went by him at will and Collison did not impress on offense. This performance was consistent with a UCLA game I watched late last season. IMO, Lawson is a much better all around player and I would take Rice, Vasquez and, perhaps, Singletary before I would take Collison as my point guard.

gw67

I agree with CDu, that's a dangerous statement to make. You're talking about a guy in Collison that has led his team to 2 straight Final Fours. Rice and Singletary are great scoring guards and two of the most underrated guards in America but I'd still take Collison over either. Vasquez is on his way but he's still inconsistent, which is usual for young guards. Some nights Vasquez looks like the best PG in the ACC and other nights he looks completely lost.

gw67
02-11-2008, 11:49 AM
I made the point in another post about a week ago that the ACC is suddenly a PG-rich league. IMO, 10 of the 12 teams have very good PGs or PG tandems with Lawson leading the pack followed by Rice, Vasquez and Singletary.

CDu is correct that I drew a conclusion re Collison based on a small sample. I didn't try to hide that fact. Put me in the unimpressed camp until I see UCLA play again.

gw67

Clipsfan
02-11-2008, 02:22 PM
I agree with CDu, that's a dangerous statement to make. You're talking about a guy in Collison that has led his team to 2 straight Final Fours. Rice and Singletary are great scoring guards and two of the most underrated guards in America but I'd still take Collison over either. Vasquez is on his way but he's still inconsistent, which is usual for young guards. Some nights Vasquez looks like the best PG in the ACC and other nights he looks completely lost.

It was Farmar who led the Bruins to the first of those two final fours, so Collison has really only led the team to one. However, his reputation is largely based upon his performance last season as he has been hampered greatly this season by injury. Prior to the UW game, he was starting to show why he is so highly regarded, though. He is definitely one of the best PGs in the country.

Billy Dat
02-11-2008, 02:23 PM
I semi-blasted Love on this thread back on 11/20 bit have watched him a bunch since then and he has changed my mind. The kid is really, really good. His game is different then the UNC-Antawn Jameson, but they remind me of each other in that they don't seem like they should be able to put up dominant offensive performances yet they keep getting their hands on the ball within 5 feet and converting. Plus, the outlet pass is a lost art and watching love instantly spin after getting a rebound and looking to fire a 3/4 court two handed chest pass to a streaking Collison/Shipp/Westbrook is becoming a real 07/07 College BBall signature. I still don't think he's going to be a great pro, but he's a really really good college player. A Love/Psycho T match-up would be very cool to watch. As it stands, I think UCLA has the best shot at winning it all - if they are all healthy.

tux
02-11-2008, 04:30 PM
I'd be careful to make such claims. You may be letting one awful performance skew your opinion. If you'd never seen Nelson play defense before, you'd probably think he was a terrible defender based on his struggles against Tyrese Rice this weekend. Good defenders have bad games. Collison built his reputation on more games than just one or two. He shouldn't lose it based on just one or two.

Not to nit pick (I know this wasn't your main point), but Rice made so many tough shots that I'm not sure you can say Markie "had a bad game" defensively. I bring this up b/c I see a lot of posters (not you CDu) talk about guys playing "bad" defense b/c someone scores on them. Sometimes in BB, guys make contested shots. In baseball, a pitcher can make the exact pitch he wanted to make and still give up a HR; doesn't mean he pitched a bad game. Rice was making bank shots from some odd angles and throwing in 3s from deep. Not sure what Markie could have done besides face guard and deny him the ball... actually I think they really tried to deny but Rice is great at keeping his dribble...

gw67
02-11-2008, 05:49 PM
Vasquez is on his way but he's still inconsistent, which is usual for young guards. Some nights Vasquez looks like the best PG in the ACC and other nights he looks completely lost.

I've seen the Terps play 18-19 times this year and I would disagree with the above assessment by Classof6. Vasquez has scored in double figures 22 of 24 games, has had 8 or more assists in 10 games and has had 6 or more rebounds on 14 occasions. Generally, when he has had a tough game shooting, he has played a good floor game. The only poor game that I recall was Virginia Tech. He has also played very well against Lawson, Rice and Singletary. There are two negatives for Vasquez. First, Williams plays him too many minutes and he wears down late in the second half of games. Second, he is a high risk taker and will often go one on four or try a very difficult pass. I wouldn't consider this attribute positive but it is different from being completely lost.

gw67

bludev03
02-11-2008, 08:15 PM
I love KLove's game! It would have been fun to see him at Duke. However, Duke truly missed the boat w/ Jon Brockman. THAT'S the guy we needed most. Everytime a UCLA game's on, I have to watch it. Mainly b/c of KLove...

cajundevil74
02-11-2008, 09:01 PM
Love's game is so unappealing to me. He is very slow, can't jump but knows how to position his body. He has a great basketball IQ and a great outlet pass, but I'd much rather have Brockman than Love - especially with our team this year.