Duke MBB vs. Princeton Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Post your post-game thoughts here.

[Bob Green]

I'm anxiously awaiting comments from those who saw the game. I'll be watching it taped delayed in about 4 hours. Singler seems to have had a great game with 21 points and 13 rebounds but it is hard to know what actually transpired when you're just reading the play-by-play on ESPN.com.

[feldspar]

I continue to be impressed by Duke's under-the-basket defense. Players are doing an excellent job getting in position, putting their hands in the air, keeping them there and not hacking. I counted at least 6 times during tonights game that Duke players did this and disrupted a shot without fouling.

[dukeisawesome]

2nd straight game we jumped out to a big lead early and never built it up from there. We need to keep up the intensity all game.

[CatfiveCane]

the game was over in the first 5 minutes. Duke went up big. You can tell afterwards they just kinda cruised.

Not a good test for Duke. Just overmatched Princeton in almost ever facet. Probably some highschool teams better then Princeton.

I was impressed by Singler. Zoubeck needs to be stronger with the ball. Paulus did a good job. Overall I think we will have a good year, but lack of inside presence will hurt us. Zoubeck just doesn't have "it" yet.

[wisteria]

2nd straight game we jumped out to a big lead early and never built it up from there. We need to keep up the intensity all game.

Well, as much as I would like to see another 100-ish game, I think it's OK to just maintain the early lead while saving energy for the later game(s). It is after all, hopefully, 3 games in 3 days.

[VaDukie]

When we were good we looked very good. At other times, for whatever reason, we just didn't have it together. I think we'll get a quality test whoever we play tomorrow night and I'm very excited to see us match up with a team of (somewhat) comparable talent.

Anyone else staying up to watch Illinois-ASU?

[feldspar]

Well, as much as I would like to see another 100-ish game, I think it's OK to just maintain the early lead while saving energy for the later game(s). It is after all, hopefully, 3 games in 3 days.

Excellent point. There's a reason we didn't run at full steam the whole game.

[DukeWarhead]

After the first five minutes, Duke really played average. Good thing Princeton was pretty bad. We were bad from 3 point range. Some reminders of last years' aborted drives in the lane leading to bad turnovers. Singler is a very good player, will be our go-to man all year. Gerald was solid - our #2 scorer. Would have liked to have seen better shot selection from Scheyer and King. I think Nolan will develop nicely, but didn't do much tonight. Greg was O.K. All-in-all, an O.K. game, but a reminder that we are capable of playing sloppy at times, and that needs to be tightened up before ACC play. Still, I think this team has such great potential - lets hope it plays out.

[monkey]

2nd straight game we jumped out to a big lead early and never built it up from there. We need to keep up the intensity all game.

Yeah. You said it. We jumped out to something like a 38-8 lead at the beginning - looking like we were going to be on the way to a 110-40 score -and from thereonin it looked like we lost our mojo. Announcers said we had a 3-20 stretch in the second half. Looked like we were forcing a lot in the second half, not getting good fast breaks points, ball movement looked lacking at times as well (again, generally second half).

We were in control basically the entire game but we didn't really look crisp. And for once, it didn't seem like it was the fault of the Princeton offense. I didn't notice a lot of back door cuts being given up but they did nail several threes. Seemed to me our FG % allowed (47.8% according to ESPN) was way, way too high considering our guys were taller and more athletic at every position.

Not saying the sky is falling, but for a 20 point win, seemed like we weren't our sharpest

[Bob Green]

Anyone else staying up to watch Illinois-ASU?

I am. :D AFRTS is showing Illinois-ASU live.

[gep]

It is after all, hopefully, 3 games in 3 days.

I hope I'm interpreting your comment correctly... Duke plays 3 games in 3 days win or lose... http://www.mauiinvitational.com/bracket/index.asp

[Lord Ash]

I am curious as to why we seem to slack off a bit in the second half. Our shooting percentage, IIRC, was VERY low... at some point 3 for 20 or something? I wonder if it is simply being a young, undeveloped (physically) team overall, as we missed some chip shots? Or is K pulling them back a little on D so as not to overwhelm and embarass the other team, and losing that defensive intensity hurts the offensive intensity?

Either way... Singler looked great, real smart, great angles and movement and body control. I love Paulus, as I was sure I would. Henderson is great mid-range, with nice little floaters and good touch. Scheyer is EXCELLENT; so heady, real solid D, GREAT handle especially in scums. Nelson was strong; not dominant, but strong. Zoubek needs to be a bit stronger, but had some nice chips and decent footwork here and there (tho the missed dunk was inexcusable.) Thomas picked up two fouls early but looked better later; still needs a bit more. King does shoot from everywhere, but needs to hit a few more I think... he might, in the future, make me the most tiny bit nervous (tho I am sure he'll also elate me at times.) Smith is smooth and quite good, especially since he is like an eighth option. Pocious didn't score much, but looked okay when he was out there. Dave barely played. We are SUPER super talented, to be frank, and very athletic, even with the white guys (who unfairly often get branded as "high basketball IQ" but get their athleticism overlooked.)

Anyway, thoughts on the second half welcome. First half was intense...

[Lord Ash]

BTW, the announce team was REALLY hamming it up and enjoying themselves. Some nice Duke stuff also with the coaching staff and all.

[wisteria]

A monster start. Held Princeton at 4 points until 10:00 mark in the first half. Although we had almost the same score as in the NMSU game, we looked very much in control here. The game slowed down a bit after the 30-ish lead, but it wasn't as sloppy or careless as in the NMSU game.

Some memorable plays:
----How did Zoubek miss that dunk? I was like "awwwwwww....." But he played well defensively.
----Nelson was pissed after that block. hehe. You could tell from that explosive (yet, alas, missed) dunk. I couldn't help but grin a bit.

[dukie8]

Well, as much as I would like to see another 100-ish game, I think it's OK to just maintain the early lead while saving energy for the later game(s). It is after all, hopefully, 3 games in 3 days.

what makes you think that they were "saving energy?" they were trying to score and defend but just not doing a great job in the 2nd half.

[Travi_K]

Good to see Dave back on the court. I know we quit pressing for much of the second half and kind of took our foot off of the gas, but it was a little frustrating watching it all go down . But I understand how important it is to have the luxury of pacing yourself in a 3 game tournament b/c Marquette had to really work.

[wisteria]

I hope I'm interpreting your comment correctly... Duke plays 3 games in 3 days win or lose... http://www.mauiinvitational.com/bracket/index.asp

oops. Sorry. Didn't get my facts right.

so... as I was saying, 3 games in 3 days, we didn't have to run with full steam for a whole night today.

[Troublemaker]

Not worried AT ALL about the second half. We didn't care. I didn't care. I watched football mostly.

[delfrio]

The inside defense was very good, covering the cutting lanes and hardly ever giving up the backdoors you typically see. Excellent on the ball defense too when we were running the press. Things got sloppy, but nice play overall.

Did you see Scheyer's no-look pass after his turnover - amazing.

I guess we know why Zoubek normally lays it in.

[monkey]

I am curious as to why we seem to slack off a bit in the second half. Our shooting percentage, IIRC, was VERY low...

45.3% for the game and 26.3% from behind the 3 line - both per ESPN.


I wonder if it is simply being a young, undeveloped (physically) team overall, as we missed some chip shots? Or is K pulling them back a little on D so as not to overwhelm and embarass the other team, and losing that defensive intensity hurts the offensive intensity?


Don't remember ever seeing Coach K pull it back - perhaps experiment with different looks - but not really pull it back. We missed a bunch of makable shots, but it also seemed that our passing wasn't as crisp as it could have been. But it did seem like we missed a lot of shots down low also.

I think a lot of this is just the youth of the team.



Either way... Singler looked great, real smart, great angles and movement and body control. I love Paulus, as I was sure I would. Henderson is great mid-range, with nice little floaters and good touch. Scheyer is EXCELLENT; so heady, real solid D, GREAT handle especially in scums. Nelson was strong; not dominant, but strong. Zoubek needs to be a bit stronger, but had some nice chips and decent footwork here and there (tho the missed dunk was inexcusable.)

Singler did look really good. Zoubek had some nice moments as well, along with a few cringe-worthy ones - for example once when Okafor? started at the 3 point line and then blew by him for the layup - and then a little while later Okafor started at the 3 point line, Zoubek stayed back and Okafor popped the wide open 3 (though I'd rather be giving up the three balls to big men then the driving layups)

[phaedrus]

In the game I watched, we lost 49-43, looked uninspired on defense and not particularly talented on offense. Fortunately, we evidently had outscored Princeton 40-12 before I turned on the TV.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Well, one of the things that I've taken away from watching the games against New Mexico State and now Princeton is that we push the ball, but we don't turn it over much. That's GREAT news to me. At some point deep into the second half, we had caused 17 turnovers but only given it up 6 times. I'll take some ill-timed shots now and then as long as there is hustle on the offensive rebounds - Singler, I'm looking at you and nodding right now.

Speaking of Singler: I am very much happy with him. It's so hard to tell how a kid looks on YouTube or at the all star games. He's got poise and some good athleticism. He really is very well rounded. Nothing sticks out because everything is excellent. My, am I going to enjoy watching him play!

Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana

[Jumbo]

The game was 38-8 at one point in the first half. From that point on, Duke stopped pressuring as hard on D, worked on a lot of different things (zone, post-ups for bigs, etc.) and substituted constantly. The second half was far from a thing of beauty, but we can't read much into it.

[Sixthman]

Trying to assign style points to 20 plus point wins in November will lead to nothing useful. Coach K is about winning events like this, which means that after the first 10 minutes (total domination by Duke) there was nothing to play for and the intensity was and should have been dailed back. Had this game been played at home, with nothing to do tomorrow but rest, the score might have been 130 - 45. Still, the last thirty minutes was painful to watch.

[monkey]

Not worried AT ALL about the second half. We didn't care. I didn't care. I watched football mostly.

Prior Duke teams would never have packed in with the score in their favor. I don't think this team did either. I did watch the second half. The players looked like they were playing - IMO -they just weren't moving the ball or converting and took a number of rushed shots (Princeton hits a 3 - TK pulls up immediately for 3 on the other end - and misses).

Like I said earlier. It's still a 20 point win and its very early in the season with a young team, but this wasn't really Duke firing on all cylinders (at least for the last 3/4s of the game or so).

[wisteria]

what makes you think that they were "saving energy?" they were trying to score and defend but just not doing a great job in the 2nd half.

I haven't seen the stats yet, but my impression was that we didn't have as many careless TOs as in the NMSU second half. We were pretty much in control, and the lead was maintained around 23-29 points all the way. They didn't get decent runs, and we didn't have very frustrating stretch. Besides, as some other posters pointed out, we went with different line-ups and just sort of experimented things in the second half.

Don't get me wrong though. I love a fast tempo game, and I would love to see them play with the amazing energy displayed in the first 10 minutes. But I still think they slowed down a bit for a reason.

[feldspar]

Don't worry, folks. We'll get a pretty good test tomorrow night if Illinois keeps it up. They play very fast-paced and are playing great defense so far.

[OZ]

I continually hear fans scream for Zoub to "DUNK the damn thing" as he continually uses the backboard. Well tonight, perhaps we saw why he uses the backboard. His dunk attemp was rather embarrassing.
Maybe he is too tall.

[Troublemaker]

Prior Duke teams would never have packed in with the score in their favor. I don't think this team did either. I did watch the second half. The players looked like they were playing - IMO -they just weren't moving the ball or converting and took a number of rushed shots (Princeton hits a 3 - TK pulls up immediately for 3 on the other end - and misses).

Like I said earlier. It's still a 20 point win and its very early in the season with a young team, but this wasn't really Duke firing on all cylinders (at least for the last 3/4s of the game or so).

I don't think we disagree. Obviously Duke wasn't firing on all cylinders after the start of the game. But when you start the game by piledriving a team to the tune of 31-4, and the game becomes a joke, and you have two more games to play in two days, it's quite understandable that you throttle down.

[wisteria]

I continually hear fans scream for Zoub to "DUNK the damn thing" as he continually uses the backboard. Well tonight, perhaps we saw why he uses the backboard. His dunk attemp was rather embarrassing.
Maybe he is too tall.

I was guilty of always shouting "dunk the ball" to Zoubek. But after a while, I am getting A LOT more comfortable with him just laying it up. Whatever way, get the job done first.

[Section 8]

This game was decided 5 minutes into it. I think K told the kids they were going to try some new stuff in the second half and our offense took the foot off the pedal as a result. Zoubek attempts his first dunk of the season (including exhibition/blue-white) and misses badly, uncontested. He's looking a little too much like a young Casey Sanders for me to be comfortable against the bigger teams. Strange zone we played toward the end, too, like a wide 3-2 with Zoubek out at the top. Put Singler there and that's an interesting look, but Z's man took him every possession we ran it.

[j.j. jones]

BTW, the announce team was REALLY hamming it up and enjoying themselves. Some nice Duke stuff also with the coaching staff and all.

Jay cracked a funny when talking about Wojo being a new Dad. Something about when Jack was born, Wojo threw his rattle on the floor and made him dive on the floor for it.

Jay seemed to catch some light-hearted ribbing when he said that Duke should continue to play all-out in the first half despite the 30 pt lead. Good banter amongst the three. Nice to see Raftery in the mix. Missed his trademark "man-a-man" at the beginning, due to the overlap of the UCLA/UMD game.

[wisteria]

Jay cracked a funny when talking about Wojo being a new Dad. Something about when Jack was born, Wojo threw his rattle on the floor and made him dive on the floor for it.

Jay seemed to catch some light-hearted ribbing when he said that Duke should continue to play all-out in the first half despite the 30 pt lead. Good banter amongst the three. Nice to see Raftery in the mix. Missed his trademark "man-a-man" at the beginning, due to the overlap of the UCLA/UMD game.

It was kind of funny when they began to talk about how many staff Duke had brought to Maui and how much budget Duke got..etc.

[Jumbo]

I continually hear fans scream for Zoub to "DUNK the damn thing" as he continually uses the backboard. Well tonight, perhaps we saw why he uses the backboard. His dunk attemp was rather embarrassing.
Maybe he is too tall.

People need to understand that he's still trying to get his legs back. That's really hard for a guy his size. Granted, the missed dunk was embarrassing, but people really need to go easy on him early in the season.

[Troublemaker]

Illinois looks like they'll be the first true test for our big men. They appear to have 3 talented guys inside in Randle, Pruitt, and Tisdale (off the bench). Their small forward Alexander is big and talented as well. I haven't looked at the box, but it seems like they've killed ASU on the boards.

They're shooting really well but I wonder if it's flukish because shooting was a problem area for them last season and because they've really picked apart ASU's zone for open looks the entire game. ASU zoned every single possession, I think, and I wonder how the Illini will react to pressure defense. Illinois looks like they run really well. We have to watch out for leakouts off of missed shots. Lastly, they look like they're having fun and playing very loose. They played really, really well.

[mepanchin]

I actually thought we played pretty well on offense in the 2nd half overall - we just missed shots. I don't mind quick shots at all, because if they're good looks, take them - that's part of playing up-tempo. I did think we sat a little on our defense in the 2nd half - but really Princeton was about as good in both halves offensively: 10 for 22, 3 for 7 behind the arc in the first half, 12 for 25, 4 for 7 from behind the arc in the 2nd half.

Big thing I'm happy about: we only turned it over 11 times on 73 possessions and Princeton turned it over 20 times.

[dukemomLA]

I LOVE this team!!! Every game I watch excites me. I'm thrilled with Zoubek's progress after injury. GO BRIAN! And despite his ridiculous dunk attempt gone awry, he was an impressive at the 5. All players are doing a great job so far, and it's nice to see the rotation, giving all the guys PT. (I'm thrilled to see Marty P and Doug McC getting some love).

I thought (before this game) that THIS team had that 'killer instinct' which IMHO has been missing for the past few years. After tonight, I wonder.

So....all you players who frequent this DBR site (....and that's most of you guys) -- get it on! Rack up the points!! And, as Coach K players, you know to not 'run up the score' during the last 5 minutes or so. BUT before that, pour it on!!! Again, I LOVE this team!!

[Bob Green]

I believe us fans are going to have to look at production from player combinations this year. Paulus and Smith at point guard. Thomas and Zoubek in the post:


Mins Pts Rebs Assts T/O Steals Blks
Paulus/Smith 39 9 2 7 2 5 0
Thomas/Zoubek 32 15 8 0 3 0 2
Paulus and Smith's combined assist to turnover ratio is impressive. Their five steals are also a positive. Thomas and Zoubek played 32 minutes and came close to combining for a double-double. That's solid production in the post. I believe we need to get a few more minutes from the Thomas/Zoubek combination but overall I was impressed with 3/4 of today's game. The last 10 minutes were not the best 10 minutes of basketball but we had a 30 point lead at that point so.....

[sandinmyshoes]

The front page talked about a tale of two halves, but it was really a tale of three quarters, or perhaps more specifically of one quarter. The first half of the first half was an absolute blitz. After that it was really a see-saw affair, but with Duke carrying that 25 point built in advantage.

Some thinga are worrisome about the last three quarters of the game, but the style Duke is playing this year is going to produce streaks. It just happened, I think, that the biggest streak in this game was at the beginning.

[SMO]

The game was 38-8 at one point in the first half. From that point on, Duke stopped pressuring as hard on D, worked on a lot of different things (zone, post-ups for bigs, etc.) and substituted constantly. The second half was far from a thing of beauty, but we can't read much into it.

We could have won this game 120-50 but chose not to pressure the whole game. Better to save some energy for Tue and hopefully Wed.

[whereinthehellami]

I don't like seeing Singler playing the most minutes. I thought they left him out there too long for some stretches. I'd like to see PT capped at 25 minutes a game. With this style of play, rotations, lineups, and PT need to be treated like a science. Singler goes hard and is relentless. He always seems to be around the ball. When he leaves the game, there is a noticeable space around the ball....Singler space. If I'm Coach (Thank everyone you know that I'm not), I make Singler's PT my most important stat for the year, keeping an eye on his endurance for the end of year "wall" that all freshman have to climb.

[Devilsfan]

When G rose above the rim for his electric ally-oop my reaction was OMG!
This was the same reaction I had when another big couldn't find the center of the basket on his first dunk attempt of the season. It's amazing how these specimens of the court fly so gracefully through the air. I don't however think the taller of the two will be signed by Nike anytime soon for a new line of "air" shoes.

[Troublemaker]

I don't like seeing Singler playing the most minutes. I thought they left him out there too long for some stretches. I'd like to see PT capped at 25 minutes a game.

No coach does that. Coaches play their best players the most minutes, it's common sense. Expect Singler to get 30+ tonight barring foul trouble because it will be a competitive game, I think.

[evrdukie]

If Duke can't maintain the intensity which characterized the first half last night, they will still be a top 20 team and administer severe drubbings to pushover opponents, but they won't beat many top ten teams this year. I'm not sure what happened to the second half, but to say it was unimpressive would be an understatement. I don't buy the notion that the second half was somehow intentional.

[Patrick Yates]

We need to remember how devastating Zoubek's injury was. When he broke the bone in his foot, his entire summer became a wash out. Heading into the summer, Brian's weakness were obvious, and fairly easy to address. He needed more lower body strength and refined post moves. Unfortunately, he had the worst possible (other than ACL or spinal injury, but those are career derailers) break. All of the exercises that are used to enhance lower body strength, and explosiveness, require you to push off both feet. So do all of the post moves, and shooting reps. Unfortunately, the boot prevented him from doing those things.

Yes, he was healthy in time for practice. But practice is for enhancing team unity, not polishing individual skills. Brian has the will and the brains to play at Duke, and play well, but his lost summer will preclude that from happening this year. Look at Lance. With a summer in the gym and weight room, he looks much better than last year. He is better on D, more confidant on O, and generally stronger. Same with Henderson. A healthy summer, spent getting into shape, has turned him into a potential All ACC player. Without that break robbing Zoubs of a summer in the gym, several of last night's layups would be Dunks.

That said, we were so clearly superior at every position last night that it is hard to get a read on anybody. Paulus, whose athleticism is not great, would be easily the second best athlete at Princeton. And their skill level is not what it once was. So this was not a good test.

K obviously, and intentionally, derailed the team last night. His substitution pattern prevented any type of rhythym or flow on O. I am glad. As I watched the first 10 minutes, I couldn't help thinking we were wasting a couple of games worth of fantastic play on a nobody. K was wise to not tire us out on an outclassed opponent.

I am glad we stopped. I like winning, and winning big (and I whine like a girl when we don't), but I take no joy in crushing one of the other academic elites (well, maybe Stanford). Especially an Ivy, where they do not give scholarships. Those guys are good kids, who play as hard as anyone in the nation. They play how I had to in HS, with my brain, cause my body wasn't up to the task. Kids on an Ivy team are the epitome of what collegiate athletes are supposed to be. Crushing them by 60, especially given what their last coach did to the program, would not be a cause for celebration. Now, if we beat thugs from a Big 10/11 squad, hoo ray. But not an Ivy.

Patrick Yates

[Dukiedevil]

I don't like seeing Singler playing the most minutes. I thought they left him out there too long for some stretches. I'd like to see PT capped at 25 minutes a game. With this style of play, rotations, lineups, and PT need to be treated like a science. Singler goes hard and is relentless. He always seems to be around the ball. When he leaves the game, there is a noticeable space around the ball....Singler space. If I'm Coach (Thank everyone you know that I'm not), I make Singler's PT my most important stat for the year, keeping an eye on his endurance for the end of year "wall" that all freshman have to climb.

You can blame this one squarely on Thomas and Zoubs. They got in foul trouble early in the first half causing Singler to play more minutes than was "planned". Not a big deal at all. 27 minutes is not too much for a guy to play in a game and if it hadn't been for foul trouble, I'm sure that number would have been in the 22-23 range. Feel free to worry if he starts averaging 37 minutes a game in ACC play :)

[whereinthehellami]

No coach does that. Coaches play their best players the most minutes, it's common sense. Expect Singler to get 30+ tonight barring foul trouble because it will be a competitive game, I think.

I disagree about playing the most minutes. Why did Singler only play 27 last night? Why do Coaches log minutes? I think with the fast paced system Duke is playing, Coach K needs to keep an eye on Singler's minutes to some extent or the short term gains will kill the team down the stretch. Singler goes all out every play and will hit the freshman wall sometime this year. Only Coach K can determine when that will happen and the extent to which it happens.

I will be interested in seeing what happens tonight with this cause Singler is going to take a beating down low. Pruit and Randle are two well seasoned seniors who are going to put alot of body on Singler.

[Zeb]

No coach does that. Coaches play their best players the most minutes, it's common sense. Expect Singler to get 30+ tonight barring foul trouble because it will be a competitive game, I think.


I disagree about playing the most minutes.

How can you possibly disagree that the best player should get the most minutes?

[Troublemaker]

I disagree about playing the most minutes. Why did Singler only play 27 last night? Why do Coaches log minutes? I think with the fast paced system Duke is playing, Coach K needs to keep an eye on Singler's minutes to some extent or the short term gains will kill the team down the stretch. Singler goes all out every play and will hit the freshman wall sometime this year. Only Coach K can determine when that will happen and the extent to which it happens.

You may disagree, but there isn't a coach on this planet that disagrees that the best players should play the most minutes. I mean, seriously, you disagree with that? Singler only played 27 last night because it was a blowout. He will play 30+ tonight if it's a competitive game.

A couple of points. The freshman wall involves dozens of other factors than just the amount of minutes played in a game. They're freshmen. It's their first time taking college courses, it's their first time playing Div I bball, it's their first time away from home, it's their first time traveling so much for games, it's their first time dealing with playing on TV, in big gyms, it's their first time they've fallen in love, etc etc etc. Secondly, there are dozens of other factors that determines a player's stamina level other than the difference between playing 35 minutes a game and 30 minutes a game. Practice minutes alone dwarf game minutes. Finally, being that you are only a fan, it's impossible for you to know his level of physical conditioning and how many minutes he should play.

[bdh21]

I am glad we stopped.

I'm glad we have a coach that is not glad we stopped.

[throatybeard]

it's their first time they've fallen in love, etc etc etc.

At 18? We must have some fairly...unsophisticated (?) freshmen? :D

[mus074]

Despite an inability to continue our momentum past the initial drubbing, there are two game-long stats that are quite pleasing:

1) We grabbed 24 of 27 available defensive rebounds. Insane.

2) We turned it over on only 11 of 70 possessions (15.7%), our best outing so far by nearly six percentage points.

We missed way too many shots in the second half, but I think its a matter of learning to play a different game. How many times did we try to keep the pedal to the floor in the second half last year...? Exactly. I suspect there is a learning curve for the new, two-wheels-off-the-ground offense. We need some more driving lessons for this Ferrari. It is after all, just game 3. Thirty-some-odd more to go. :)

[dw0827]

I'm wondering if Coach K isn't using these blow-out games as an opportunity to experiment with rotations and line-ups.

I suspect that all the subbing has a negative effect on the flow of the game and explains why we've looked somewhat disjointed after a certain point in the game. Experiment time. See who plays well together . . . try this . . . try that. Some combinations work and some don't.

I think it will take time for the coaching staff to nail down the rotations and combinations that work well together. In the meantime, it won't always be pretty . . .

Its an interesting problem to have . . . how to effectively use 11 guys. Not as easy as it sounds. And until we get it figured out, there will be some ugliness.

I'm curious to see how many guys we use in the next two games . . . cuz they aren't going to be blow-outs.

[Saratoga2]

After the first five minutes, Duke really played average. Good thing Princeton was pretty bad. We were bad from 3 point range. Some reminders of last years' aborted drives in the lane leading to bad turnovers. Singler is a very good player, will be our go-to man all year. Gerald was solid - our #2 scorer. Would have liked to have seen better shot selection from Scheyer and King. I think Nolan will develop nicely, but didn't do much tonight. Greg was O.K. All-in-all, an O.K. game, but a reminder that we are capable of playing sloppy at times, and that needs to be tightened up before ACC play. Still, I think this team has such great potential - lets hope it plays out.


What I did see was a team with a big lead trying many combinations and actually looking a little confused doing it. Singler has special talent and at times Henderson and Scheyer played expecially well. It is of some concern for me to see Nelson going to the basket and getting stuffed and also Zoubek showing weak offensive play around the basket. I looked for more improvement from them in those areas. Tonight will be a better test of the team and perhaps coach K learned from all the combinations last night. Right now I like Singler, Henderson, Scheyer, (either Paulus or Smith) and King as the best team we have to offer.

[trinity92]

Both played tons of zone against us. Can anyone chime in as to whether that's their preferred defense or if they just used it against us to slow us down? With the outside shooters on our team, it will be up to Greg and Nolan to learn how to break down the zone better, and I think with time we'll be able to convince teams that zone is just not the way to go against us.

The second half looked very similar to the NMSU game, and I can't really take much away from either of those games. Obviously neither looked very good, but with those big early leads, I'm not sure there's much to be learned, and I'm not especially worried...yet.

Count me among the crowd that slaps his forehead every time Zoubek lays it in from close range instead of dunking, but had an "ah-hah" moment when he missed the slam. :p I'm actually impressed with Z's progress so far, especially on defense. His blocks/steals without leaving his feet, both in the NMSU and last games, have been regular and welcome sights.

SO looking forward to Illinois tonight.

goduke.

[RepoMan]

Where's the poll?

[Clipsfan]

Illinois looks like they'll be the first true test for our big men. They appear to have 3 talented guys inside in Randle, Pruitt, and Tisdale (off the bench). Their small forward Alexander is big and talented as well. I haven't looked at the box, but it seems like they've killed ASU on the boards.

They're shooting really well but I wonder if it's flukish because shooting was a problem area for them last season and because they've really picked apart ASU's zone for open looks the entire game. ASU zoned every single possession, I think, and I wonder how the Illini will react to pressure defense. Illinois looks like they run really well. We have to watch out for leakouts off of missed shots. Lastly, they look like they're having fun and playing very loose. They played really, really well.

I think it is amusing that although Illinois started the same way Duke did and ended up with the same margin of victory (23 vs 22) at around the same total points (a few less), we're praising the Illini and really upset with the way Duke played in the second half. I think it's just hard to maintain your passion when you're up 30 in the first 10 minutes.

[wilson]

I think it's just hard to maintain your passion when you're up 30 in the first 10 minutes.

Not to mention the fact that, as the announcers noted, Princeton really did wake up and compete admirably after the opening 12-minute mouth punch. I generally agree that there were a few too many moments of sloppiness, but on the whole, I really liked what I saw. The kids are alright, folks.

[Clipsfan]

A quick thought on Zoubs: It looked like he got some tough calls on the defensive end. He looks slightly awkward as he follows his defender at times, but he still managed to get all ball on the block a couple times where he was called for a foul (and there was no contact down low). I have to wonder whether the officials see his still awkward movement (he'll get better as he heals, I'd assume) and just blow the whistle because they assume that he can't have blocked it cleanly.

[wilson]

A quick thought on Zoubs: It looked like he got some tough calls on the defensive end. He looks slightly awkward as he follows his defender at times, but he still managed to get all ball on the block a couple times where he was called for a foul (and there was no contact down low). I have to wonder whether the officials see his still awkward movement (he'll get better as he heals, I'd assume) and just blow the whistle because they assume that he can't have blocked it cleanly.

He's also still struggling a bit with offensive footwork, but it's better (as the announcers pointed out). Some of his limitations on the offensive end to me seem to be mental...he seems to be a bit unsure of himself and thus fail to finish strongly. He's clearly improved and (hopefully) improving though.
He also looks bigger to me. I think he can be a solid inside presence (if not a huge offensive threat) this season, and thus that this team is gonna be better than advertised. I'd love to catch some people napping this year, because the general public doesn't expect much (at least not by Duke standards).

[Jumbo]

I don't like seeing Singler playing the most minutes. I thought they left him out there too long for some stretches. I'd like to see PT capped at 25 minutes a game.

Are you talking about blowouts or all games? Because there's no reason why Singler should be playing barely over half the game in tight contests.

[Jumbo]

If Duke can't maintain the intensity which characterized the first half last night, they will still be a top 20 team and administer severe drubbings to pushover opponents, but they won't beat many top ten teams this year. I'm not sure what happened to the second half, but to say it was unimpressive would be an understatement. I don't buy the notion that the second half was somehow intentional.

You don't think a team might lose its edge after a) it goes up 38-8 and b) starts to sit back in a zone instead of applying the enormous ball pressure that led to a huge lead?

[whereinthehellami]

I saw Zoubek outside the key a couple of times on defense and he got into trouble. I think that is asking too much of him athletically to be able to guard people outside of the key. Being outside the key also minimizes his strengths (size).

I did notice some nice post-ups in the post and agree with the announcers in that he presents a huge target for entry passes in to the post. Reminded me of that guy from Oklahom St. a couple of years ago, Big Country (Reeves?).

[Jumbo]

Well said, Patrick.

[whereinthehellami]

Are you talking about blowouts or all games? Because there's no reason why Singler should be playing barely over half the game in tight contests.

I'm talking crazy, I mean, ahem (talks in lower voice, looks around), I'm talking about all games. Singler is exploding onto the scene, like a shooting star, he is everywhere. I just wonder if the system is going to run him into the ground. The kid doesn't back down in the paint and doesn't take plays off. It seemed to me last night that he went the longest without a break. He is going to take a beating. All I'm saying is i would try and make sure that he is still strong come the end of the season.

[Jumbo]

I'm talking crazy, I mean, ahem (talks in lower voice, looks around), I'm talking about all games. Singler is exploding onto the scene, like a shooting star, he is everywhere. I just wonder if the system is going to run him into the ground. The kid doesn't back down in the paint and doesn't take plays off. It seemed to me last night that he went the longest without a break. He is going to take a beating. All I'm saying is i would try and make sure that he is still strong come the end of the season.

I don't think playing 27 or 30 minutes a night will run him into the ground. The most grueling stuff, as someone else mentioned, comes in practice. Games are almost a respite. As long as he is getting periodic breaks -- and 30 mpg allows for plenty of rest -- he'll be fine.

[evrdukie]

You don't think a team might lose its edge after a) it goes up 38-8 and b) starts to sit back in a zone instead of applying the enormous ball pressure that led to a huge lead?

Yes. I do think that's what happened.

[Duvall]

I am glad we stopped. I like winning, and winning big (and I whine like a girl when we don't), but I take no joy in crushing one of the other academic elites (well, maybe Stanford). Especially an Ivy, where they do not give scholarships. Those guys are good kids, who play as hard as anyone in the nation. They play how I had to in HS, with my brain, cause my body wasn't up to the task. Kids on an Ivy team are the epitome of what collegiate athletes are supposed to be. Crushing them by 60, especially given what their last coach did to the program, would not be a cause for celebration. Now, if we beat thugs from a Big 10/11 squad, hoo ray. But not an Ivy.

Fun college basketball fact: there are good kids at schools whose players don't have parents that paid $200,000 for their educations.

[dukeisawesome]

I am glad we stopped. I like winning, and winning big (and I whine like a girl when we don't), but I take no joy in crushing one of the other academic elites (well, maybe Stanford). Especially an Ivy, where they do not give scholarships. Those guys are good kids, who play as hard as anyone in the nation. They play how I had to in HS, with my brain, cause my body wasn't up to the task. Kids on an Ivy team are the epitome of what collegiate athletes are supposed to be. Crushing them by 60, especially given what their last coach did to the program, would not be a cause for celebration. Now, if we beat thugs from a Big 10/11 squad, hoo ray. But not an Ivy.


And people wonder why so many college basketball fans hate Duke. :rolleyes:

[Patrick Yates]

I am sorry that we did not crush an Ivy.

No one here has a problem when K lays off Army, in virtually the only game that is not televised, so that he can avoid crushing his alma mater. Now, I know that the Ivies are not the same as kids who are going off to war, but K has been laying off laying the wood to the Point since FOREVER. Back in the late 90s, when Irag was just a glint in a coked up scion's eye, K laid off Army. The rationale being, that the kids were just over matched, and there was no point, nor pride for that matter, in beating them by 60, which we could have, easily.

Last night, there was no point. If he wanted, he could have crushed them. The pattern this year will likely be that K will ascertain whicn 7-8 players have the hot hand on any given night, and give those the majority of minutes, especially in the second half of close games. No point last night, cause it was over, early. We could have rode Scheyer, Henderson, and Singler to a HUGE win, tiring them out in a pointless battle.

As for the 200,000 dollar dig above, well, a lot of parents pay that so their kids can camp out in front of Cameron, so there.

The Ivy athletes get SOME money, in the form of financial aid. But they have to pay the rest. You better believe that some of those kids last night have loans to pay back when they get through playing. They probably could have taken full rides at low majors or Div 1a schools, but they chose to challenge themselves at very rigorous universities (like Duke).

I see the Ivy kids as being like our own beloved players. They are essentially good (no one is perfect) young men. They HAVE to go to class. And you can forget that malarky at big schools. At UNC, so slouch academically, Roy had to yank Lawson's starting slot to get him to class. I would be amazed if Mayo or Beasely or Rose or Gordon (or probably Love for that matter) attend a single class next semester. Dixon, the valiant, wounded soldier at Oregon, has a single class this semester. Pool. Once a week. I mean, it is a testament to his preserverance that he was able to graduate in 4 years, plus 4 summers (started before his frosh year). What with tutors in every subject, it is amazing that he was able to graduate at all.

So yeah, I have a superior attitude. Guess what? We (Duke, Stanford, the Ivies) ARE better. Our kids have to go to class. Real classes. I doubt Pool is offered at Duke or the Ivies. Other schools have Joke majors. The academic ones barely have any joke classes, outside PE which are at every school. (at the good ones they are only half credit and only 2 can count towards graduation requirements).

So why not lay off of real students? At Illinois, some of those kids probably never go to the library and coast by taking classes that aren't even availible to players at REAL schools. I got no problem laying a beating on another ACC team, or even Vandy, NW, or Stan. Those are scholly players. They signed up for real games, at schools where sports are a business. They aren't businesses at the Ivies. Think about how we felt when we got cheap shotted by a bunch of semi literate thugs at VT, many of whom couldn't spell Duke last year.

Patrick Yates

[dball]

I am glad we stopped. I like winning, and winning big (and I whine like a girl when we don't), but I take no joy in crushing one of the other academic elites (well, maybe Stanford). Especially an Ivy, where they do not give scholarships. Those guys are good kids, who play as hard as anyone in the nation. They play how I had to in HS, with my brain, cause my body wasn't up to the task. Kids on an Ivy team are the epitome of what collegiate athletes are supposed to be. Crushing them by 60, especially given what their last coach did to the program, would not be a cause for celebration. Now, if we beat thugs from a Big 10/11 squad, hoo ray. But not an Ivy.

Patrick Yates

Ivies do not give 'athletic' scholarships, but they most certainly do award scholarships and grants and there is a good degree of recruiting for sports.

Do you have some study that shows the 'kids' who go to some elite NE school are somehow better than the 'kids' who go to Big State U? I am skeptical that the percentage of "good" (whatever that is) kids is any better at Harvard or Brown or Duke than many other institutions (with several well publicized exceptions). I would agree that the tail doesn't wag the dog at the Ivies, but I don't see where crushing some Big 10/11 school would be particularly gratifying either. If a Big 10/11 school was the first round opponent here and Duke got off to a similar commanding lead, I don't know that Duke's approach would have been much different.

I admire Duke's effort. If that results in the occasional 50 point blowout, that's OK. If we're playing 3 games in 3 days, it also makes sense to back off a bit on the first night when a game is well in hand.

[Duvall]

So yeah, I have a superior attitude. Guess what? We (Duke, Stanford, the Ivies) ARE better. Our kids have to go to class. Real classes. I doubt Pool is offered at Duke or the Ivies. Other schools have Joke majors. The academic ones barely have any joke classes, outside PE which are at every school. (at the good ones they are only half credit and only 2 can count towards graduation requirements).

So why not lay off of real students? At Illinois, some of those kids probably never go to the library and coast by taking classes that aren't even availible to players at REAL schools. I got no problem laying a beating on another ACC team, or even Vandy, NW, or Stan. Those are scholly players. They signed up for real games, at schools where sports are a business. They aren't businesses at the Ivies. Think about how we felt when we got cheap shotted by a bunch of semi literate thugs at VT, many of whom couldn't spell Duke last year.

Patrick Yates

Let me see if I have this right:

Students, alumni and fans of Duke, Stanford and the Ivies are "better" than students, alumni and fans of other schools.
Classes at Duke, Stanford and the Ivies = Real classes
Classes at other, lesser schools = Not real classes
Players at Ivy League schools = Good young men
Players at other schools = Presumably, less good young men
University of Illinois = Not a real school
Virginia Tech basketball players = "semi-literate thugs"

Thank you, that was very helpful.

[Indoor66]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXcKAYOOqr4

[dukie8]

I think it is amusing that although Illinois started the same way Duke did and ended up with the same margin of victory (23 vs 22) at around the same total points (a few less), we're praising the Illini and really upset with the way Duke played in the second half. I think it's just hard to maintain your passion when you're up 30 in the first 10 minutes.

you are going to compare duke beating a truly terrible ivy league team (they were 11-17 and 2-12 in the ivies last year) and only outscoring them by 1 point in the 2nd half to illinois beating a pac-10 team that has a mcd aa on its roster and who many thought preseason had an outside shot at an ncaat bid?

[jimsumner]

I confess I don't fully understand the angst here. Duke exploded out of the blocks and put the game away earlier. 5,000 miles and five time zones from home and facing two games in two days against better opponents, Krzyzewski eased up a bit on the gas pedal and Duke cruised in the second half in a game that was never remotely in danger of being competitive.

I can live with that.

Patrick, I'm delighted that Duke does it the right way. But so do other people and not all of them are pedigreed full-bloods. I really think you've put yourself out on a ledge that won't support the weight.

[Zeb]

Think about how we felt when we got cheap shotted by a bunch of semi literate thugs at VT, many of whom couldn't spell Duke last year.

Ye gods. Where are you coming up with this?

To anyone somewhat rational who is reading this board, Patrick does not speak for this Duke fan.