Henderson /Ellington friendship

[Dopeshop]

When these friends signed with Duke and UNC,there was a rash of articles and interviews about the strength of their friendship and how the rivalry would never get in the way. I think Gerald has been pummeled over and over about the Hansbrough foul ( It was mentioned AGAIN on the Davidson broadcast). I've not heard a peep from Ellington along the lines that "this isn't the Gerald I know" ,"I'm sure He didn't mean to hurt Tyler " etc.Is the friendship still stong ? Did I miss Ellington's support of Gerald? I think Henderson will be abused at UNC and I think is friend could help a lot.

[CameronBlue]

if Duke would take the initiative to orchestrate some sort of courtside meeting between Hansbrough and G before the game at UNC. After the famous fight between Dr. J and Larry Bird years ago, the two came out before the next Philly-Boston game and fed passes to each other during warm-ups. Henderson's talents will define his career in college basketball but a gesture of sportsmanship between he and Hansbrough would be a great way for both to put the event behind them, and perhaps a large section of both fanbases would appreciate it as well.

[dukediv2013]

if Duke would take the initiative to orchestrate some sort of courtside meeting between Hansbrough and G before the game at UNC. After the famous fight between Dr. J and Larry Bird years ago, the two came out before the next Philly-Boston game and fed passes to each other during warm-ups. Henderson's talents will define his career in college basketball but a gesture of sportsmanship between he and Hansbrough would be a great way for both to put the event behind them, and perhaps a large section of both fanbases would appreciate it as well.

After the way G was ejected and he was escorted off to cursing and all other obscenities, why bother bringing it back up? Henderson did nothing wrong on that play and everyone on Carolina's team knows that. Ol' Roy and TH both said it was an accident... let it be over with.

[dukestheheat]

CameronBlue,

I do think that that would be an excellent idea. If not, this is going to follow G for awhile. I'd be surprised if something is not done.

dth.

[watzone]

It may surprise some of you that Nolan is tight with the starting PG at UNC. They hang out some.

[gethlives]

Ellington did say nice things about Henderson after the incident: "Knowing Gerald, he wouldn't do anything to hurt anybody like that. It was within the game, and the officials called it the way they called it."--that from the Winston Salem Journal.

As a Carolina fan, I never thought that Henderson meant to hurt Hansbrough on the play but he acted in a reckless manner and when that happens you have to deal with the consequences. Incidentally, this is most impartial observers take on this like your own Jay Bilas. What has always made me angry was Coach K's assertion afterwords that somehow Tyler brought it upon himself by being in the game at the end. All he had to say was, "Gerald didn't mean to hurt anyone and we are sorry Tyler got hurt." If he objected to the ejection, he could have handled it privately--believe me his actions/words inflamed the tensions more than just Henderson's shot to Tyler.

[RepoMan]

What has always made me angry was Coach K's assertion afterwords that somehow Tyler brought it upon himself by being in the game at the end.

You are misinterpreting what was said.

[whereinthehellami]

I would hope that G has thick skin and a little nasty streak in him where he wouldn't want to address it anymore. Its over, so says the league, the players, and the coaches. Duke, and G in particular can't let UNC/the media hold this over G's head. If you think UNC fans will ever let this go then, well, i don't know what to say. Its all part of the game, unless its malicious, so let the kids dressed in powder blue keep on crying over on their little hill.

[gethlives]

You are misinterpreting what was said.

Here are the two quotes from Coach K that irked me to no end.

"Krzyzewski wants the nature of that hit reviewed, presumably by the ACC director of officials or the commissioner. "Somebody should look at it," he said. "If they see it different, then we accept it. I know there was not the intent to do that. And the game was over before that - I mean, the outcome of the game. Let's put it that way. That's unfortunate, too, that those people were in the game on that play."

Asked to elaborate, Krzyzewski said: "We both probably should have had our walk-ons in."

Again you can see why my interpretation would be that somehow the fact that Hansbrough was in the game was why he got fouled so hard. Which if nothing else would seem to fly against the assertion that it wasn't intentional or more precisely reckless.

""I don't blame anybody," Krzyzewski said. "I'm just saying that it's unfortunate. The person it's most unfortunate for is (Henderson). That wasn't his intent, and that's not what he was doing during that play. And I believe that with all my heart."

This was after the suspension, one might think that it was most unfortunate for the guy who got his nose broke.

Look, I realize that I am hijacking this thread to address something that happened in March, but I still think the lingering anger of a lot of even rational Carolina fans is a lot more to do with K then Gerald Henderson.

[Bluedog]

What has always made me angry was Coach K's assertion afterwords that somehow Tyler brought it upon himself by being in the game at the end. All he had to say was, "Gerald didn't mean to hurt anyone and we are sorry Tyler got hurt."


Coach K said EXACTLY what you said he should have said: "I'm sorry that Tyler got hit...That's obviously not what you want have happened...But the intent was not to do that...I feel badly for Tyler and I apologize for that, but I know that there was no intent to do that...But, you go with what was called, and I feel badly that that happened."

And your assertion that Coach K suggested that Tyler brought it on himself is a grave misinterpretation and taking a sentence out of context. Here is the one sentence UNC fans point out from the after the game interview from Coach K:

"The game was over before that. The outcome of the game. That was unfortunate that those people were in the game in that way."

Here is the more of the interview for context:

"I had a chance to watch the play...Look, we'll take all responsibility, but if there is any way Gerald Henderson did that intentionally, it is crazy ... He's moving away from it, he's going up to block...Now, he hit him and he should be fouled...He didn't extend anything...I'm sorry that Tyler got hit...That's obviously not what you want have happened...But the intent was not to do that...I feel badly for Tyler and I apologize for that, but I know that there was no intent to do that...But, you go with what was called, and I feel badly that that happened ... The game was over before that. The outcome of the game. That was unfortunate that those people were in the game in that way. But that's what happens. You know, I mean it's 20 seconds left. What I'm saying, I'm not blaming anybody, it's unfortunate, we should have both probably had our walk-ons on....I'm not blaming anybody. You know, I'm not blaming anybody...If he did extend his arm, boy, I'll tell you, that was wrong, and I might suspend him for more. You want to do what's right. Our kids are not immune for making mistakes and doing wrong...I know he didn't do it on purpose...And seeing it I am convinced. Did he get hit? Ya, it's ugly. You never want that to happen to anybody. But the kid didn't intend to do that, that's what I'm saying."

Audio of interview (http://www.newsobserver.com/758/story/549728.html)

Edit: Sorry for repeating much of what gethlives just said....Was posting at the same time, and don't feel deleting much of it.

[allenmurray]

Here are the two quotes from Coach K that irked me to no end.

"Krzyzewski wants the nature of that hit reviewed, presumably by the ACC director of officials or the commissioner. "Somebody should look at it," he said. "If they see it different, then we accept it. I know there was not the intent to do that. And the game was over before that - I mean, the outcome of the game. Let's put it that way. That's unfortunate, too, that those people were in the game on that play."

Asked to elaborate, Krzyzewski said: "We both probably should have had our walk-ons in."

Again you can see why my interpretation would be that somehow the fact that Hansbrough was in the game was why he got fouled so hard. Which if nothing else would seem to fly against the assertion that it wasn't intentional or more precisely reckless.

""I don't blame anybody," Krzyzewski said. "I'm just saying that it's unfortunate. The person it's most unfortunate for is (Henderson). That wasn't his intent, and that's not what he was doing during that play. And I believe that with all my heart."

This was after the suspension, one might think that it was most unfortunate for the guy who got his nose broke.

Look, I realize that I am hijacking this thread to address something that happened in March, but I still think the lingering anger of a lot of even rational Carolina fans is a lot more to do with K then Gerald Henderson.

Carolina fans would not have been so quick to see this foul as intentional if it hadn't happened to a star player - in fact the whole thing would have been forgotten about after about 30 minutes. Had this same event hapened between two walk-ons it would have not been news. K was saying that at that point in the game both teams should have had in their bottom players - therefore no controversy. That is all.

Why was it perhaps more unfortuante for Henderson? Well, from K's perspective it was not intentional. Tyler now is a hero and Henderson a villian - all for a foul that while pehaps reckless and hard, was not intentional. It is in that regard that it was more unfortuante for Henderson. Obviously from a physical standpoint it ws more unfortuante for Hansbrough. However long after the physical aspect was over, the villification continues (as one can see from your post). The long-term impact is much more significant for Henderson.

As for the rationality of Carolina fans - they still think the Helms championship means something - 'nuff said.

[Turtleboy]

What has always made me angry was Coach K's assertion afterwords that somehow Tyler brought it upon himself by being in the game at the end.He brought it on himself? Is it your belief that Coach K thinks Hansbrough makes substitution decisions?

[Indoor66]

It may surprise some of you that Nolan is tight with the starting PG at UNC. They hang out some.

That wouldn't be too unusual. They were teammates at Oak Hill and started together in the same backcourt.

[gethlives]

He brought it on himself? Is it your belief that Coach K thinks Hansbrough makes substitution decisions?

I agree that it was bad word choice to say that K though Tyler brought it upon himself. I do think however that it was even poorer word choice to suggest that there was any problem with Carolina and Duke starters being in the game at that point.

[AtlDuke72]

Anybody that has ever played knows that players get frustrated at the end of a game that is lost. The problem was not that the players were still in the game, but that Roy had his players lined up on the free throw line trying to rebound with 10 seconds left and the game over. Hansborough was still playing hard as he always does. When a game is over the coaches should pull the team back to avoid this type of situation. I think Ole Roy deserves some heat for what occurred which will not be a popular opinion in Chapel Hill.

[elvis14]

Tyler now is a hero and Henderson a villian

This is probably the most ironic thing about the whole situation. Talk about an event changing the perceived roles away from reality!

As for Ellington and Henderson being friends and Nolan and Ty being friends. I'm sure they are and there is nothing wrong with that. At the same time, we all know that once that whistle blows friendships get put on hold. I'm good friends with guys that I compete against. There have been times where we have not called each other for few days after a game but long term they are still my friends. I still have not spoken to some of the guys that I played against in my last football game. They called a TO when they had the ball on the 15 yard line and they were up by 2 TD's on a day that my team was playing back to back games. I gave them an earful about it using words such as "sportsmanship" and "class". I'll see them tomorrow at our playoff games and we'll be fine and will probably laugh about the situation (even if we still disagree).

Also, you guys are being too nice to the Carolina fan :D

[Lord Ash]

Eh, the vast majority of Carolwhina fans are EXACTLY that; whiney little... #$%... who call THEIR OWN COACH AND PLAYERS a bunch of liars when the players and coaches say that they think it wasn't intentional, and the vast majority are actually a disgusting mix of thuggish in that they say they want to kill Gerald and wimps enough to never, EVER dare do such a thing. Nevermind that plenty of accidents happen in sports, never mind that a bloody nose isn't that big a deal, never mind that Gerald apologized and K apologized and EVERYONE involved said it was an accident and Gerald was suspended. Hell, most Carolina fans are still upset that Gerald knocked out Tylers tooth, when almost EVERYONE knew the tooth thing was totally unrelated.

I've played sports for years, and I've been punched in the face and bloodied on purpose and never whined as much as those wussies in crappy blue. Seriously, I had no problem with Carolina fans up until this incident. Now... eh, they are a bunch of whiney little kids who I dearly wish would just shut the hell up.

Lord this makes me so mad. I hate Carolina fans so much at this moment.

[CameronBlue]

After the way G was ejected and he was escorted off to cursing and all other obscenities, why bother bringing it back up? Henderson did nothing wrong on that play and everyone on Carolina's team knows that. Ol' Roy and TH both said it was an accident... let it be over with.

Perhaps I should've been clearer: It's not about admitting guilt. Neither is it to placate rabid fans on the fringes who will never be satisfied. It's simply a gesture of sportsmanship, not a penance.

More to the point, it's also about taking control and managing the fallout of an event that will be one of the key storylines leading up to the next game irrespective of whether the league or players or coaches thinks it's "over". The downside is...what exactly? Someone accusing Gerald of being magnamimous?

I don’t know the minds of the players and I question fans who claim more knowledge than the few odd comments they hear in the media. I don't know how onerous or distracting the event was or remains to be for Gerald. The Gerald Henderson I think I know is gifted competitor who I hope will be appreciated by players and fans around the league for his talents. Coach K has distinguished himself in seizing opportunities that come disguised as misfortune. So I'm pretty confident that under K's guidance Gerald will do what's appropriate to free himself from whatever burden that remains, if any at all. Letting it be over is not within the fans' power. Laettner's legacy isn't "the stomp". I'll wager that Gerald's legacy will not be "the punch" either.

[dukeENG2003]

this whole thread just reminds me how much it ticks me off to see our own fans constantly remind G of the incident with the stupid "G" (raise your elbows up) cheer. Can someone who writes the cheer sheets (if any of you are reading this) PLEASE make a note that this practice needs to be stopped. Its embarassing.

Sure, its ok to enjoy to yourself (and keep it quiet that you enjoy it) the replays of Hansblablah smearing blood on his face to cover his tears, but we shouldn't be glorifying it publicly, nor should we be so stupid as to think that this is what G should be known for.

[mepanchin]

Lord this makes me so mad. I hate Carolina fans so much at this moment.

My favorite post was some guy saying that if he played a pick-up game with Henderson, he'd elbow him in the face. I would love to see some sniveling, pasty nerd try to elbow a very strong, very fit 6'5" man in the face and live to tell the tale.

[captmojo]

I watched some of the Gardner-Webb/UConn match last night. There was an occasion in the second half where a shot blocked by GW's center was called an intentional foul because of the force of the block. He did make contact and a foul was justified, but I did not see anything that spoke of any intent to do anything other than block the shot. Contact was first made with the ball and the continuing motion of the defender's hand made contact with the shooter's arm. No blood. The announcers mentioned this was a new rule, relating to the force of the foul. Certainly the officials have yet to read the player's mind to discern intent.

Just curious if anyone else saw this, or knows if a new rule has been installed/related to the Frog Face unfortunate injury of last year.

[Wander]

I watched some of the Gardner-Webb/UConn match last night. There was an occasion in the second half where a shot blocked by GW's center was called an intentional foul because of the force of the block. He did make contact and a foul was justified, but I did not see anything that spoke of any intent to do anything other than block the shot. Contact was first made with the ball and the continuing motion of the defender's hand made contact with the shooter's arm. No blood. The announcers mentioned this was a new rule, relating to the force of the foul. Certainly the officials have yet to read the player's mind to discern intent.

Just curious if anyone else saw this, or knows if a new rule has been installed/related to the Frog Face unfortunate injury of last year.

I heard that during the game and was wondering the same thing too. Of course, that game was completely unwatchable because there was a foul every half second, but that's besides the point.

[captmojo]

I heard that during the game and was wondering the same thing too. Of course, that game was completely unwatchable because there was a foul every half second, but that's besides the point.

The foul count was outrageous. And in many cases, unjustified.

[Highlander]

Anybody that has ever played knows that players get frustrated at the end of a game that is lost. The problem was not that the players were still in the game, but that Roy had his players lined up on the free throw line trying to rebound with 10 seconds left and the game over. Hansborough was still playing hard as he always does. When a game is over the coaches should pull the team back to avoid this type of situation. I think Ole Roy deserves some heat for what occurred which will not be a popular opinion in Chapel Hill.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with a UNC fan, but Coach K's criticism of who was in the game was in poor form, IMO. He should have just let it go, or stuck to criticizing himself for leaving his starters in at that point. His comments, coupled with the statement later that Henderson was the victim, only poured gasoline on the fire.

Let's face it, if the situation was reversed, and it was Hansbrough who broke Gerald's nose at the end of a decided game, and Roy had the audacity to criticize K for having Gerald in the game, we'd all be beside ourselves with rage. However, I think a handshake at midcourt between the two would go a long way towards putting this whole incident behind us. I hope they do it.

I think it's better to just admit that K should have stuck to an apology.

[throatybeard]

Good post, Highlander.

It is my hope that we can quit arguing about this.

[Lord Ash]

My favorite post was some guy saying that if he played a pick-up game with Henderson, he'd elbow him in the face. I would love to see some sniveling, pasty nerd try to elbow a very strong, very fit 6'5" man in the face and live to tell the tale.

Yeah I saw that one! Argh. I hate InsideCarolina. I don't even know why I look over there, except I keep hoping I'll see a halfway intelligent post. So far I am like 2 for 14,680.

[zingit]

this whole thread just reminds me how much it ticks me off to see our own fans constantly remind G of the incident with the stupid "G" (raise your elbows up) cheer. Can someone who writes the cheer sheets (if any of you are reading this) PLEASE make a note that this practice needs to be stopped. Its embarassing.

Sure, its ok to enjoy to yourself (and keep it quiet that you enjoy it) the replays of Hansblablah smearing blood on his face to cover his tears, but we shouldn't be glorifying it publicly, nor should we be so stupid as to think that this is what G should be known for.

I'm part of the student section and I have not seen this cheer. It's definitely not in the cheer sheet.

That being said, I think Duke dodged a bullet in that there were apparently no reporters at Cameron during the game, when students watched the game on big screens. The raucous cheering each time the play was shown would have been worse publicity than either the incident itself or K's words afterwards. I'll admit that a part of me enjoyed seeing that play, but another part of me found the whole episode, especially students' reactions, embarrassing.

[feldspar]

I watched some of the Gardner-Webb/UConn match last night. There was an occasion in the second half where a shot blocked by GW's center was called an intentional foul because of the force of the block. He did make contact and a foul was justified, but I did not see anything that spoke of any intent to do anything other than block the shot. Contact was first made with the ball and the continuing motion of the defender's hand made contact with the shooter's arm. No blood. The announcers mentioned this was a new rule, relating to the force of the foul. Certainly the officials have yet to read the player's mind to discern intent.

Just curious if anyone else saw this, or knows if a new rule has been installed/related to the Frog Face unfortunate injury of last year.

Your best course of action when listening to the commentators about anything related to officiating is to, first and foremost, assume that they are full of crap. That's going to set you in the right direction 9 times out of 10.

There is no new rule "relating to the force of the foul" in men's college basketball this year. Excessive contact is a Point of Emphasis, but it has been for the last 11 years, so it's not like it's anything new.

Unfortunately, not having seen the play you a referring to, I can't really comment on it, other than to say that, according to Rule 4-29-2-d-1 (yes, that's real rule reference :)), excessive contact of any kind, even while playing the ball, can be ruled intentional.

Tying this back into the whole G-Hansbrough incident, IMHO it should have been called an intentional foul.

[dukeENG2003]

I'm part of the student section and I have not seen this cheer. It's definitely not in the cheer sheet.

Its a small group of students in the undergrad section, over by where the "baby" usually is. It usually doesn't spread, thankfully, but I'd say theres a group of 20 some students who participate in it sometimes. Its right in front of me b/c I'm in the front of the grad student section, and I really want to just run over and tell them to stop, cuz its in a place where you know K and G can see it, which is the most embarassing part about it all. They chant "G, G, G, G" and raise left elbow, then right elbow, then left, etc. I wasn't trying to imply that the cheer sheet started it at all, just asying that perhaps it can be used as a means to stop it, sort of like stopping the "you can't do that" chant. This chant, IMO, is far worse.

[devildeac]

I think this is still being discussed now(a bit early I will admit as we don't play kerlina until next year) because my/our memories are still painfully aware of the incident and statements like this:

"By rule, this is a flagrant foul for combative and confrontational action. It is ruled a fight. By rule, it is an automatic ejection. By NCAA rule,[Henderson] must sit out the next game." (Joint statement issued after the game by officials Les Jones, Karl Hess and Jamie Luckie). This is from the Raleigh N&O a day or so after it occurred-I did not save the date.

Discuss this statement by these officials.

[CDu]

That wouldn't be too unusual. They were teammates at Oak Hill and started together in the same backcourt.

Not too surprising at all. If I remember correctly, McCants and Redick had a semi-friendship coming out of high school. That was surprising.

[vick]

Its a small group of students in the undergrad section, over by where the "baby" usually is. It usually doesn't spread, thankfully, but I'd say theres a group of 20 some students who participate in it sometimes. Its right in front of me b/c I'm in the front of the grad student section, and I really want to just run over and tell them to stop, cuz its in a place where you know K and G can see it, which is the most embarassing part about it all. They chant "G, G, G, G" and raise left elbow, then right elbow, then left, etc. I wasn't trying to imply that the cheer sheet started it at all, just asying that perhaps it can be used as a means to stop it, sort of like stopping the "you can't do that" chant. This chant, IMO, is far worse.

I haven't been to a game this year (graduated '06), so I haven't seen this, but what you're describing sure sounds like it's a play off of the Lee Melchionni chant. Not that that makes it a particularly good idea, given the history, but unless I'm missing something, I wouldn't think this is a reference to the Hansbrough incident...

[feldspar]

I think this is still being discussed now(a bit early I will admit as we don't play kerlina until next year) because my/our memories are still painfully aware of the incident and statements like this:

"By rule, this is a flagrant foul for combative and confrontational action. It is ruled a fight. By rule, it is an automatic ejection. By NCAA rule,[Henderson] must sit out the next game." (Joint statement issued after the game by officials Les Jones, Karl Hess and Jamie Luckie). This is from the Raleigh N&O a day or so after it occurred-I did not save the date.

Discuss this statement by these officials.

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I can certainly understand how they arrived at that conclusion.

[RepoMan]

I agree that it was bad word choice to say that K though Tyler brought it upon himself. I do think however that it was even poorer word choice to suggest that there was any problem with Carolina and Duke starters being in the game at that point.

All he was saying is that, as a factual matter, it was too bad starters were out there. The game was over. They weren't needed. If they had not been out there, neither would Henderson have been suspended nor would Hansborough have been injured. I mean--that's just a fact. Right?

I do agree with Highlander that it would have been better if K had not gone there; however, I don't want to see any pregame handshake. Gerald should just ignore the situation and focus on the game.