NFL Playoffs 2021

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Anyone watching?

[Bob Green]

Anyone watching?

Absolutely. Bills - Colts game was exciting. I’m looking forward to the Seahawks - Rams.

[uh_no]

Absolutely. Bills - Colts game was exciting. I’m looking forward to the Seahawks - Rams.

while traditionalists may hate it, was glad to see the colts take the bold move of going for 2 on the early TD. If your belief is that your best shot is to win in regulation, then it makes sense to go for it early, so at least you can adjust your strategy going forward if you miss (unlike if you miss it right at the end). It ended up not mattering as they went 1-2, but I wish the commentators actually studied up on WHY instead of just babbling about "I don't care what the numbers say this is dumb" like they did.

*ducks*

[wsb3]

Anyone watching?

Great game & that was a fumble.Glad Bills won anyway.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Let's go Hawks!!!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ugh. Bad offense for my birds.

[bundabergdevil]

I wouldn't mind seeing Brady make it a few rounds so he can send Bill a timely V-Day card but that's pretty much the only reason.

[rsvman]

Go WFT! Brady is exactly the kind of quarterback we wanted. Immobile. If we can get to him and rush hum, we stand a chance. If the defense can also create a turnover, that would be a big plus.

On the offensive side, we may need Heinecke, at least for a few drives, just to open things up. McLaurin and Gibson have to firemon all cylinders, and Sims has to quit dropping perfectly good passes.

Love to see the WFT make the whole world say WTF!

[bundabergdevil]

Go WFT! Brady is exactly the kind of quarterback we wanted. Immobile. If we can get to him and rush hum, we stand a chance. If the defense can also create a turnover, that would be a big plus.

On the offensive side, we may need Heinecke, at least for a few drives, just to open things up. McLaurin and Gibson have to firemon all cylinders, and Sims has to quit dropping perfectly good passes.

Love to see the WFT make the whole world say WTF!

I just can't bring myself to root for anything owned by Snyder. It would be pretty funny if the NFC East, which shouldn't have been allowed to football at all this year, made a hot little play-off run though. I'll give you that.

[uh_no]

Go WFT! Brady is exactly the kind of quarterback we wanted. Immobile. If we can get to him and rush hum, we stand a chance. If the defense can also create a turnover, that would be a big plus.

On the offensive side, we may need Heinecke, at least for a few drives, just to open things up. McLaurin and Gibson have to firemon all cylinders, and Sims has to quit dropping perfectly good passes.

Love to see the WFT make the whole world say WTF!

I was excited when belicheat was eliminated....I had forgotton until now that brady was still around.

[rsvman]

AND...... Sims drops a perfect pass, almost on cue. SMH. He has to start catching balls! He is a receiver! Does he know what that word means?

[bundabergdevil]

I was excited when belicheat was eliminated...I had forgotton until now that brady was still around.

You know Gronk is on the Bucs, too, right?

[bundabergdevil]

You know Gronk is on the Bucs, too, right?

And Antonio Brown. Ugh. The Bucs are really not a pleasant collection of castaways. Maybe I do want WFT to win.

[rsvman]

Kinda interesting. It's the greatest quarterback of all time versus some guy whose name is a cross between a beer and a muffler shop. Seems like a fair match-up.

[rsvman]

Well, at least it wasn't an embarrassment. Overall I thought the team played pretty well.

[Acymetric]

The day wasn't a wash, all the games were "entertaining", but I would be hard pressed to come up with three matchups I was less interested in going into the day.

Tomorrow should be better (unfortunately, the Bucs and Rams won, so some of the uninterestingness will bleed over into next weekend).

[weezie]

Kinda interesting. It's the greatest quarterback of all time versus some guy...
We found it very compelling. Heinicke was cool under some intense fire and kept Brady on his toes.
Reading Heinicke's bio was was interesting, he won the Walter Payton Award.
Hung in there to see the end of the game and the greeting between the two QBs. Brady had to have been impressed and Heinicke was heard wishing Brady luck. Pretty standard stuff but it showed Heinicke was legit, deserved this shot and acquitted himself well. Nice to have something positive to take about for a change

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

And Antonio Brown. Ugh. The Bucs are really not a pleasant collection of castaways. Maybe I do want WFT to win.
Hey now! I’m a life long bucs fan. I’ve suffered mostly disappointment supporting my team since I was old enough to remember in the very late 70s. We’re allowed to have another moment, however long it lasts.

[Bob Green]

Titans jump out to a 7-0 lead over Ravens with an impressive 83 yard drive on their second possession.

[bundabergdevil]

Hey now! I’m a life long bucs fan. I’ve suffered mostly disappointment supporting my team since I was old enough to remember in the very late 70s. We’re allowed to have another moment, however long it lasts.

Fair enough. Amazing what “not Jameis Winston”will do for a team!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Fair enough. Amazing what “not Jameis Winston”will do for a team!
The Bucs are forever doomed when it comes to drafting QBs.

Doug Williams - finally left... and then won a Super Bowl
Steve Young - how did the Bucs ever, ever, ever let him go
Vinny Testaverde
Trent Dilfer
Shaun King
Chris Simms
Josh Johnson
Josh Freeman
Mike Glennon
Jameis Winston

[bundabergdevil]

The Bucs are forever doomed when it comes to drafting QBs.

Doug Williams - finally left... and then won a Super Bowl
Steve Young - how did the Bucs ever, ever, ever let him go
Vinny Testaverde
Trent Dilfer
Shaun King
Chris Simms
Josh Johnson
Josh Freeman
Mike Glennon
Jameis Winston


Heh. Yeah, it's not that the list is all bad, Bucs just didn't have them at the best time.

Meanwhile, Browns up 21 in the first, threatening to score again after an INT.

Steelers really had a late season nose dive.

[kshepinthehouse]

Heh. Yeah, it's not that the list is all bad, Bucs just didn't have them at the best time.

Meanwhile, Browns up 21 in the first, threatening to score again after an INT.

Steelers really had a late season nose dive.

28 in the 1st now. What a meltdown by the Steelers the last portion of the season.

[weezie]

28 in the 1st now. What a meltdown by the Steelers the last portion of the season.

Well they say who laughs last and all but heh heh...

[SouthernDukie]

28 in the 1st now. What a meltdown by the Steelers the last portion of the season.

But since it’s the Browns that means nothing.

[SouthernDukie]

But since it’s the Browns that means nothing.

Now it means something. 35-7 nearing halftime.

[bundabergdevil]

Now it means something. 35-7 nearing halftime.

After the 28 point first quarter, Browns trade TDs in the 2nd. Big hole. A Browns win would be nice to see.

[Acymetric]

After the 28 point first quarter, Browns trade TDs in the 2nd. Big hole. A Browns win would be nice to see.

Normally I would pull for the Steelers, but I agree it would be nice to see the Browns get a playoff win. Regardless, I would​ like the game to actually get interesting at some point. Not sure that is possible at this point.

[kshepinthehouse]

Browns losing some mo......

[Acymetric]

Not going for it on 4th and 1 was a mistake for the Steelers.

[kshepinthehouse]

Not going for it on 4th and 1 was a mistake for the Steelers.

Big one. Don’t understand it.

[jv001]

I guess Ju-Ju and Chase Young didn't do their teams any favors with comments made before their upcoming games. Although Chase said his comments were more praise for Tom Brady than disrespect.

[budwom]

anyone else note the failed jump pass at the goal line yesterday? Ah, memories.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I guess Ju-Ju and Chase Young didn't do their teams any favors with comments made before their upcoming games. Although Chase said his comments were more praise for Tom Brady than disrespect.

Agreed on Chase Young - I thought those comments were dramatically blown out of proportion - I read it as being said with full respect - if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best and he was looking forward to the challenge of taking on the best. It's not like he was saying that Brady was a chump - he was saying Brady is the best. I didn't catch Ju-Ju's comments.

I married into a family of Steelers fans, so we turned off the game very early last night - it saved me the trouble of negotiating with my son about staying up late to watch the game as he didn't want to watch anymore. That was ugly.

[jv001]

Agreed on Chase Young - I thought those comments were dramatically blown out of proportion - I read it as being said with full respect - if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best and he was looking forward to the challenge of taking on the best. It's not like he was saying that Brady was a chump - he was saying Brady is the best. I didn't catch Ju-Ju's comments.

I married into a family of Steelers fans, so we turned off the game very early last night - it saved me the trouble of negotiating with my son about staying up late to watch the game as he didn't want to watch anymore. That was ugly.

When asked in an interview, what he thought of the Browns, Ju-Ju said, the Browns is the Browns and they were the same old Browns.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

When asked in an interview, what he thought of the Browns, Ju-Ju said, the Browns is the Browns and they were the same old Browns.

Agreed - that's not good. Very different tone than what Chase Young said.

[TywinBlue]

I see Philadelphia Eagles head coach Doug Pederson got fired today.

Gotta think the move was influenced by the NFL Commissioner's office:
The NFL has zero tolerance for any attempted tanking; Pederson's MNF fiasco went over the acceptable line.

Agree ?

[kshepinthehouse]

I see Philadelphia Eagles head coach Doug Pederson got fired today.

Gotta think the move was influenced by the NFL Commissioner's office:
The NFL has zero tolerance for any attempted tanking; Pederson's MNF fiasco went over the acceptable line.

Agree ?

No I do not.

[Acymetric]

I think he just seems to have lost the team. Some people on the radio earlier today expressed shock that he would be fired after being so successful, but he's just been so-so lately. I think other teams would be smart to scoop him up, but I think his time in Philly had run it's course.

[Steven43]

I see Philadelphia Eagles head coach Doug Pederson got fired today.

Gotta think the move was influenced by the NFL Commissioner's office:
The NFL has zero tolerance for any attempted tanking; Pederson's MNF fiasco went over the acceptable line.

Agree ?

I don’t know. It seemed as if Jacksonville tanked the entire season. It also appeared that the Jets were doing the same through the first 2/3 of the season — they began 0-11 and played atrociously in almost every one of those 11 losses.

So Philadelphia basically surrenders during the final quarter of the final game of the season, when their playoff chances are zero, and they are the ones punished for tanking? Seems implausible and illogical.

That doesn’t mean you’re wrong, but I do have my doubts.

[JasonEvans]

Pederson made the playoffs 3 years in a row (including winning a Super Bowl). Yeah, they did not play well in a bad division this year, but firing that guy seems pretty harsh. If he had "lost the team" so badly, how did they beat the very good Saints in week 14? In their last 7 games, they played 5 playoff teams and only lost one of those games by more than 6 points. Does that sound like a guy who "lost the team"?

That said, the idea that this was some secretive punishment by Roger Goddell is somewhat laughable. I mean, this is about the most incompetent commissioner in sports. I doubt that he pulled off something this nefarious.

-Jason "the reality may be that unless you are a truly great coach, NFL teams need a new guy in charge every 5 years or so... just because" Evans

[jv001]

Pederson made the playoffs 3 years in a row (including winning a Super Bowl). Yeah, they did not play well in a bad division this year, but firing that guy seems pretty harsh. If he had "lost the team" so badly, how did they beat the very good Saints in week 14? In their last 7 games, they played 5 playoff teams and only lost one of those games by more than 6 points. Does that sound like a guy who "lost the team"?

That said, the idea that this was some secretive punishment by Roger Goddell is somewhat laughable. I mean, this is about the most incompetent commissioner in sports. I doubt that he pulled off something this nefarious.

-Jason "the reality may be that unless you are a truly great coach, NFL teams need a new guy in charge every 5 years or so... just because" Evans

I agree with Jason. I don't think Goddell had anything to do with this firing. I'm a little surprised that Pederson was fired because there are worse coached teams in the NFL. It didn't help Pederson when Carson Wentz said he could no longer play for Pederson. The way Wentz played this season, I would have thought the GM, Howie Roseman who signed Wentz to a 4 year, $128 million contract that ends in 2024 would lose his job before Wentz.

[rsvman]

I see Philadelphia Eagles head coach Doug Pederson got fired today.

Gotta think the move was influenced by the NFL Commissioner's office:
The NFL has zero tolerance for any attempted tanking; Pederson's MNF fiasco went over the acceptable line.

Agree ? Doubt it, and just FYI it was definitely a Sunday night game, not a Monday night game.

[Acymetric]

Shouldn't that have been targeting on that fumble for a touchback? Pretty clearly lead with the helmet, and initiated contact helmet to helmet.

Edit: I posted that right before the announcers started talking about it after the commercial break.

[SouthernDukie]

Shouldn't that have been targeting on that fumble for a touchback? Pretty clearly lead with the helmet, and initiated contact helmet to helmet.

Yes, but it’s the Chiefs (Patriots of the 2020s). And oh how I already hate them. They are already more talented offensively, by far, than any other team in the league. If they’re going to be allowed to get away with stuff like that on top of it they really will be unstoppable.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Shouldn't that have been targeting on that fumble for a touchback? Pretty clearly lead with the helmet, and initiated contact helmet to helmet.

Edit: I posted that right before the announcers started talking about it after the commercial break.

Absolute backbreaking turn of events.

[SouthernDukie]

Absolute backbreaking turn of events.

For sure. Instead of potentially being down 16-10 at half, and getting the 2nd half kickoff, they are down by 16 and probably out of the game entirely.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

For sure. Instead of potentially being down 16-10 at half, and getting the 2nd half kickoff, they are down by 16 and probably out of the game entirely.

Well...

[Acymetric]

Great drive, exactly what they needed. Another empty possession would have been game, I think.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Great drive, exactly what they needed. Another empty possession would have been game, I think.

Honestly, if they can come back and win (long shot I know) after that play at the end of the first half, it would be one of the more impressive things I have seen in sports.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Well...

[SouthernDukie]

Well...

*IF* Cleveland can put a touchdown on the board in this next drive, I’ll give them an outside chance. If not, I think it’s over.

[Steven43]

Yes, but it’s the Chiefs (Patriots of the 2020s). And oh how I already hate them. They are already more talented offensively, by far, than any other team in the league. If they’re going to be allowed to get away with stuff like that on top of it they really will be unstoppable.
Why do you hate the Chiefs? You’re honestly the first person — other than fans of one of their division rivals — I’ve ever heard say that.

[SouthernDukie]

Why do you hate the Chiefs? You’re honestly the first person — other than fans of one of their division rivals — I’ve ever heard say that.

Well, this is sport hate I’m talking about. I just feel like Mahomes is plastered everywhere, and that Hill & Co are way too cocky for being such a young team. I felt the same way about the Colts and Peyton Manning. Always rooted for the Patriots and Brady to beat them. I guess it’s the rebel in me, but I don’t like it when I feel advertising and leagues and fandom are pushing me to root for a particular player or team by throwing them in my face all the time. And that’s what it feels like with Kansas City right now.

[SouthernDukie]

Mahomes out for the remainder of the game with a concussion. The Browns have a legit chance now after cutting into the lead further.

[Acymetric]

How long was that drive?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

How long was that drive?

18 plays. Very interesting now.

[Acymetric]

Pretty unreal. They're probably going to need to be able to move the ball a little quicker on their next possession.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Can I ask a dumb question that I have always wondered about? Romo just talked about how that long drive likely left the Chiefs defense worn out. Why would the Browns offense be less worn out? Weren't their players on the field the whole time (especially the linemen)? Just wondering.

I am suffering from a bit of Chiefs overkill but as a Giants fan not at all invested in this game, I have nothing against them. I did develop Patriots fatigue over time, but we are nowhere near that. If the Chiefs end up playing the Packers in the Super Bowl we will have non-stop State Farm ads leading up to the game.

[Acymetric]

Can I ask a dumb question that I have always wondered about? Romo just talked about how that long drive likely left the Chiefs defense worn out. Why would the Browns offense be less worn out? Weren't their players on the field the whole time (especially the linemen)? Just wondering.

I am suffering from a bit of Chiefs overkill but as a Giants fan not at all invested in this game, I have nothing against them. I did develop Patriots fatigue over time, but we are nowhere near that. If the Chiefs end up playing the Packers in the Super Bowl we will have non-stop State Farm ads leading up to the game.

I think it has to do with the defense being more reactive.

[SouthernDukie]

I am suffering from a bit of Chiefs overkill but as a Giants fan not at all invested in this game, I have nothing against them. I did develop Patriots fatigue over time, but we are nowhere near that. If the Chiefs end up playing the Packers in the Super Bowl we will have non-stop State Farm ads leading up to the game.

I’m sorry, but I despise Hill. His theatrics after every catch are over the top. Right now the Chiefs are #1 on my NFL hate meter.

[SouthernDukie]

A turnover is the only thing that’s going to save Cleveland now. Even if they hold Kansas City to a field goal, I don’t like the feel of having to score a touchdown and get a two point conversion just to tie.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

A turnover is the only thing that’s going to save Cleveland now. Even if they hold Kansas City to a field goal, I don’t like the feel of having to score a touchdown and get a two point conversion just to tie.

Yup. Good call.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Honestly, if they can come back and win (long shot I know) after that play at the end of the first half, it would be one of the more impressive things I have seen in sports.

Reposted for visibility...

[SouthernDukie]

Yup. Good call.

Wow! Now they can take as much time as they want on offense. They can mix up the run and pass and not have to worry about the clock at all.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

A turnover is the only thing that’s going to save Cleveland now. Even if they hold Kansas City to a field goal, I don’t like the feel of having to score a touchdown and get a two point conversion just to tie.

That was impressive SouthernDukie. Well done.

That was one of the most awful passes I have ever seen. It looked like a really bad hail mary, except they had no reason to be throwing a hail mary. Up until then, Henne was actually doing fairly well.

[SouthernDukie]

Reposted for visibility...

Also good call. I thought it was over at halftime. Albeit I didn’t think the Chiefs would lose Mahomes.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Very entertaining game. As a Seahawks fan with no dog in the fight.

[Acymetric]

Burning that timeout (both, actually) really hurts now.

[SouthernDukie]

Punting the ball away really hurts.

[SouthernDukie]

Ballgame. Sad.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ballgame. Sad.

Well...

[SouthernDukie]

And although I love Romo, he’s creaming himself rooting for the Chiefs right now.

[DukieInKansas]

I'm a happy camper.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Helluva game.

[Steven43]

And although I love Romo, he’s creaming himself rooting for the Chiefs right now.

NSFW.

[Steven43]

I'm a happy camper.

Ditto.

Now we’ll have to wait and see if Patrick Mahomes is available for the AFC championship game against Buffalo.

[Bob Green]

Chiefs running back Williams (#31) had a huge game.

[SouthernDukie]

Ditto.

Now we’ll have to wait and see if Patrick Mahomes is available for the AFC championship game against Buffalo.

I’m really shocked to hear that from a Patriots fan.

[SouthernDukie]

NSFW.

Sorry, that’s the first thing that came out of this 70s kid’s mouth.

[Steven43]

What? I thought you were from Boston?

That explains it then. No team is a threat to Brady and the Patriots’ six Super Bowls more than these young Kansas City Chiefs.

Yep, I am from Boston — born at the Boston Lying-in Hospital, which is now part of Brigham and Women’s.

I attended lots of Celtics, Red Sox, and Bruins games as a kid, but never a Patriots game. I liked the Pats, but didn’t develop a particularly strong rooting interest for them.

Then my family moved to West Texas and it was all over. The Dallas Cowboys — with Roger Staubach at the helm — completely inundated all aspects of life in Texas. Their games were always on tv and radio, gas stations would give away Cowboys mugs and drinking glasses, almost every car had a Cowboys bumper sticker, my bedsheets and blankets had the Cowboys logo — as did even the pencils sold at my school!

And they were really really good— in the playoffs year after year and in pretty much every other Super Bowl during Staubach’s time. Heck, the minister at our Presbyterian church would have service early on Sundays when Dallas was playing on the East Coast — with an 11:00 AM Mountain Zone start time. I mean, come on, what’s a kid to do but become a fan of that team?

Anyway, go Chiefs!

[JasonEvans]

The 4th down play call was one of the gutsiest things I have seen in sports. Wow! I think going for it was an easy call, but the decision to put your backup QB on the move and have him throw a pass while scrambling... I cannot even describe the size of the balls on Andy Reid to make that call.

[Steven43]

I thought it was over at halftime. Albeit I didn’t think the Chiefs would lose Mahomes.

I did. I had a premonition when the Chiefs were rolling and Travis Kelce had just scored a touchdown and Mahomes was playing great (as usual). I looked over at my wife — who was busy doing patient notes on her laptop and sort of half-pretending to be interested in the game — and said “Things are going a little TOO well, you know? I’m afraid of an injury happening to Mahomes.”

And sure enough....

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I did. I had a premonition when the Chiefs were rolling and Travis Kelce had just scored a touchdown and Mahomes was playing great (as usual). I looked over at my wife — who was busy doing patient notes on her laptop and sort of half-pretending to be interested in the game — and said “Things are going a little TOO well, you know? I’m afraid of an injury happening to Mahomes.”

And sure enough...

He was already on a gimpy foot.

[weezie]

Oh dear. We have a very strict superstition protocol in this household. It mainly consists of me running after the perp and yelling at them to take it back, take it back now!

[rsvman]

Well, this game has taken a dark turn.....

[uh_no]

Well, this game has taken a dark turn....

you might say it's a bit....deflating...

[bundabergdevil]

Only one middle-aged man will be bumping Glory Days in the locker room after this one, methinks.

[rsvman]

Heinike actually fared better against the Tampa Bay defense than Brees did. I think the Football Team would've been able to handle the Saints today......

[bundabergdevil]

I do not feel bad for him (at all) but this must SUCK for Jameis Winston. All the supermarkets in a 10 mile radius better put those crab legs under lock and key after this!

[sagegrouse]

Ross Cockrell one game from the Super Bowl.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

The 4th down play call was one of the gutsiest things I have seen in sports. Wow! I think going for it was an easy call, but the decision to put your backup QB on the move and have him throw a pass while scrambling... I cannot even describe the size of the balls on Andy Reid to make that call.

Andy Reed is my favorite coach in the NFL. As Romo said would any other coach in the NFL have made that call. Hell no! Andy and Mahomes are hard to root against, plus a small market team. Can’t wait to see Mahomes and Rogers battle it out in two weeks. And yes the Allstate ads will be ridiculous.

[rsvman]

I have two teams that I really like, and I just watched Tampa beat them both on consecutive weeks. Can't root for them. Don't like the Packers. Guess I'm gonna have to pull for an AFC team in the Super Bowl.
Go Buffalo! (I guess)

[DukieInKansas]

I have two teams that I really like, and I just watched Tampa beat them both on consecutive weeks. Can't root for them. Don't like the Packers. Guess I'm gonna have to pull for an AFC team in the Super Bowl.
Go Buffalo! (I guess)

Chiefs have better BBQ. And I can share from my wine cellar.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Andy Reed is my favorite coach in the NFL. As Romo said would any other coach in the NFL have made that call. Hell no! Andy and Mahomes are hard to root against, plus a small market team. Can’t wait to see Mahomes and Rogers battle it out in two weeks. And yes the Allstate ads will be ridiculous.

I think you mean State Farm. It is unfortunate that it isn't in AZ this year at State Farm Stadium since their two spokesmen are likely to be in the game. I wonder who Jake from State Farm will root for. I find all of those ads to be horrible, though the Chris Paul ones are even worse.

[SouthernDukie]

Go Bucs & Brady!!!

Of course I fully expect the Packers to win next week. But I’m pulling for the team at Tampa Bay.

I’d love to see the Bills and Bucs play in a couple of weeks at Raymond James. But more likely than not it will be KC and GB. Ugh...

[Steven43]

He was already on a gimpy foot.

Well, maybe that was what planted the idea in my head. I too had noticed him appearing to favor one of his legs, but I had the volume turned down at the time and was unable to hear whether or not the announcers had noted it. Then later after turning the volume up there was no mention made of him being injured, so I thought perhaps he was fine.

I guess my “premonition” of him getting injured was subconsciously planted in my head after seeing him look a bit gimpy. And then later the concussion happened and he was out for the rest of the game — and maybe the Bills game as well.

If Mahomes is unable to play against the Bills the Chiefs have very little chance of winning. If he plays I think KC wins a very close game.

As for the NFC my heart says Tampa Bay, but my head says the Packers. I hope I’m wrong.

[budwom]

I get a huge kick out of Rodgers' body language...definitely not your typical rah-rah guy...but he's great with stares and eye rolls.

[Acymetric]

Well, this is sport hate I’m talking about. I just feel like Mahomes is plastered everywhere, and that Hill & Co are way too cocky for being such a young team. I felt the same way about the Colts and Peyton Manning. Always rooted for the Patriots and Brady to beat them. I guess it’s the rebel in me, but I don’t like it when I feel advertising and leagues and fandom are pushing me to root for a particular player or team by throwing them in my face all the time. And that’s what it feels like with Kansas City right now.

I don't feel quite as strongly as you do, but I am definitely feeling some Patrick Mahomes fatigue, they are pushing him hard as the face of the NFL.

[SouthernDukie]

I don't feel quite as strongly as you do, but I am definitely feeling some Patrick Mahomes fatigue, they are pushing him hard as the face of the NFL.

Yes they are. Too hard and too fast.

[camion]

The 4th down play call was one of the gutsiest things I have seen in sports. Wow! I think going for it was an easy call, but the decision to put your backup QB on the move and have him throw a pass while scrambling... I cannot even describe the size of the balls on Andy Reid to make that call.

Great call and beautifully executed. Most people thought they weren't going to run any play, just try to draw the defense offside. Gutsy, but given the element of surprise I think it was also a high percentage call.

[jv001]

I have been rooting for a Chiefs vs. Packers Super Bowl game(since The Football Team is out of the playoffs), but it wouldn't hurt my feelings if it turned out to be the Bills instead of the Chiefs. I am concerned about the Packers run game against the very good run defense of the Bucs. What I do not want is to have Troy Aikman call the game. He's up there with Dickie V as announcers I don't like and before anyone says it's because he played for the Cowboys, that's not it. I think Darryl Johnston is a great announcer and he played for the Boys. I think the Conference title games are going to be good ones.

[Acymetric]

Yes they are. Too hard and too fast.

I can't remember anything like it in my time following the NFL. Usually they'll pick a handful of guys (for a long time it was some combination of Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Manning, but occasionally other guys/positions got sprinkled in like Luck, or OBJ, etc.) but the last three years it feels like it is just All Mahomes All The Time. To be fair, he is phenomenal, but a guy (me) can only take so much. I was fully on the Chiefs/Andy Reid bandwagon from Alex Smith's last year there through their Superbowl run last year, but I had to jump off this year.


Great call and beautifully executed. Most people thought they weren't going to run any play, just try to draw the defense offside. Gutsy, but given the element of surprise I think it was also a high percentage call.

I've always wondered why teams didn't do that a little more often on the "obvious" attempts at drawing the defense offsides. A) if the defense is sitting back trying to make sure they don't jump, they're likely to be a split second behind and caught off guard if you actually snap it, and B) actually snapping it there occasionally makes it more likely that the defense might actually jump, since they know sometimes you actually run a play in those spots.

[jv001]

I can't remember anything like it in my time following the NFL. Usually they'll pick a handful of guys (for a long time it was some combination of Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Manning, but occasionally other guys/positions got sprinkled in like Luck, or OBJ, etc.) but the last three years it feels like it is just All Mahomes All The Time. To be fair, he is phenomenal, but a guy (me) can only take so much. I was fully on the Chiefs/Andy Reid bandwagon from Alex Smith's last year there through their Superbowl run last year, but I had to jump off this year.



I've always wondered why teams didn't do that a little more often on the "obvious" attempts at drawing the defense offsides. A) if the defense is sitting back trying to make sure they don't jump, they're likely to be a split second behind and caught off guard if you actually snap it, and B) actually snapping it there occasionally makes it more likely that the defense might actually jump, since they know sometimes you actually run a play in those spots.

I've thought the same thing. Start calling the snap count and back off like they do some times, then come back and repeat the sequence but this time snap the ball. Throwing it deep would be real gutsy.

GoDuke!

[DukieInKansas]

Well, maybe that was what planted the idea in my head. I too had noticed him appearing to favor one of his legs, but I had the volume turned down at the time and was unable to hear whether or not the announcers had noted it. Then later after turning the volume up there was no mention made of him being injured, so I thought perhaps he was fine.

I guess my “premonition” of him getting injured was subconsciously planted in my head after seeing him look a bit gimpy. And then later the concussion happened and he was out for the rest of the game — and maybe the Bills game as well.

If Mahomes is unable to play against the Bills the Chiefs have very little chance of winning. If he plays I think KC wins a very close game.

As for the NFC my heart says Tampa Bay, but my head says the Packers. I hope I’m wrong.

They looked at his foot in the blue tent on the sidelines - taped his toe as I recall. Actually had a shot of him with his shoe off and talking to the trainer/doctor before the tent got fully lowered.

[DukieInKansas]

I can't remember anything like it in my time following the NFL. Usually they'll pick a handful of guys (for a long time it was some combination of Brady/Brees/Rodgers/Manning, but occasionally other guys/positions got sprinkled in like Luck, or OBJ, etc.) but the last three years it feels like it is just All Mahomes All The Time. To be fair, he is phenomenal, but a guy (me) can only take so much. I was fully on the Chiefs/Andy Reid bandwagon from Alex Smith's last year there through their Superbowl run last year, but I had to jump off this year.



I've always wondered why teams didn't do that a little more often on the "obvious" attempts at drawing the defense offsides. A) if the defense is sitting back trying to make sure they don't jump, they're likely to be a split second behind and caught off guard if you actually snap it, and B) actually snapping it there occasionally makes it more likely that the defense might actually jump, since they know sometimes you actually run a play in those spots.

This is interesting to me. We get a lot of Mahomes around here but I thought it was local stuff (other than the State Farm ads). I will say, in his defense, that he is doing a lot of good things in the community. His foundation was a big sponsor of getting out the vote in the KCMO area - even worked at getting Arrowhead as a polling place.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

They looked at his foot in the blue tent on the sidelines - taped his toe as I recall. Actually had a shot of him with his shoe off and talking to the trainer/doctor before the tent got fully lowered.

It looked hyperextended to me. He was definitely not throwing as strong off that foot after it happened.

I don't care much one way or the other about the Chiefs, but I hate injuries.

[DukieInKansas]

It looked hyperextended to me. He was definitely not throwing as strong off that foot after it happened.

I don't care much one way or the other about the Chiefs, but I hate injuries.

Agree on the injuries - I didn't like seeing Garrett limited due to whatever strain/injury he had during the game.

And so no one thinks I'm too much of a homer for the Chiefs, Sorenson should have been called for targeting. Not sure of the rules but I don't think it would have overturned giving the ball to the Chiefs but it would have backed them up 15 and put him out of the game. (If I have my rules correct - but that is highly suspect.)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Agree on the injuries - I didn't like seeing Garrett limited due to whatever strain/injury he had during the game.

And so no one thinks I'm too much of a homer for the Chiefs, Sorenson should have been called for targeting. Not sure of the rules but I don't think it would have overturned giving the ball to the Chiefs but it would have backed them up 15 and put him out of the game. (If I have my rules correct - but that is highly suspect.)

I'm not sure if it would have reversed the change of possession. I've always thought the "fumble through the end zone" rule was WAY out of line. Maybe this gives it the visibility needed to make a rule change.

[Acymetric]

I'm not sure if it would have reversed the change of possession. I've always thought the "fumble through the end zone" rule was WAY out of line. Maybe this gives it the visibility needed to make a rule change.

That is a live ball foul, it would have nullified the play. The change of possession happened after the targeting (no) call, when the ball went out the endzone.

I do agree that the "fumble through the end zone == touchback" was a lame rule, but I don't know exactly what the rule should be. Loss of down, return the ball to the original line of scrimmage?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That is a live ball foul, it would have nullified the play. The change of possession happened after the targeting (no) call, when the ball went out the endzone.

I do agree that the "fumble through the end zone == touchback" was a lame rule, but I don't know exactly what the rule should be. Loss of down, return the ball to the original line of scrimmage?

Romo said "why not just pull it back to the twenty, no change of possession?" Hard to argue with.

[Acymetric]

Romo said "why not just pull it back to the twenty, no change of possession?" Hard to argue with.

That might work too, but then what do you make the down/distance?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That might work too, but then what do you make the down/distance?

*Shrugs* I dunno. First and ten?

Anything is better than giving the ball to the other team. There's no even remotely similar penalty to fumbling out of bounds on the field of play.

[Acymetric]

*Shrugs* I dunno. First and ten?

Anything is better than giving the ball to the other team. There's no even remotely similar penalty to fumbling out of bounds on the field of play.

100% agreed, but you also can't reward fumbling out the endzone by resetting the downs. I think "back to the original line of scrimmage, loss of down" strikes the best balance. I would probably also be ok with "the ball is spotted where the fumble occurred" (which I think is already the rule for fumbles that travel forward and go out of bounds outside the endzone).

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

100% agreed, but you also can't reward fumbling out the endzone by resetting the downs. I think "back to the original line of scrimmage, loss of down" strikes the best balance. I would probably also be ok with "the ball is spotted where the fumble occurred".

How would it be a reward? You want to score seven points and have the ball at the end zone. You lose the ball, it slips out of bounds. It would be incredibly hard to do on purpose, and would also be against the intent of scoring seven points. Back it up to the twenty, reset downs.

[budwom]

I'm not sure if it would have reversed the change of possession. I've always thought the "fumble through the end zone" rule was WAY out of line. Maybe this gives it the visibility needed to make a rule change.

That play was a prime example of the dangers of "giving 110 percent."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That play was a prime example of the dangers of "giving 110 percent."

It was compounded by the blatant targeting call that was missed too.

I'm really impressed the Browns picked themselves back up for the second half.

[Sixthman]

100% agreed, but you also can't reward fumbling out the endzone by resetting the downs. I think "back to the original line of scrimmage, loss of down" strikes the best balance. I would probably also be ok with "the ball is spotted where the fumble occurred" (which I think is already the rule for fumbles that travel forward and go out of bounds outside the endzone).

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.

[Troublemaker]

Honestly, if they can come back and win (long shot I know) after that play at the end of the first half, it would be one of the more impressive things I have seen in sports.


I'm not sure if it would have reversed the change of possession. I've always thought the "fumble through the end zone" rule was WAY out of line. Maybe this gives it the visibility needed to make a rule change.

Yeah, dumbest rule in football, perhaps. Fumble out-of-bounds at the 1 yard line and it's first-and-goal. Fumble out-of-bounds at the 0 yard line (or -1) and the other team takes possession.


Heinike actually fared better against the Tampa Bay defense than Brees did. I think the Football Team would've been able to handle the Saints today...

I have some Saints partisanship in me, but I really doubt your 7-9 Football Team would've given them much trouble. Heinicke did have a very good game against the Bucs, but the Saints defense is much better (I can provide all the advanced stats like DVOA if needed) and were only killed in this game by the Saints' offense's turnovers. And Washington's LB crew would need to be as great as TB's to shut down Brees and turn him over like TB did. I know Washington has a great D-line but Brees gets the ball out so fast, it's really the LBs that are the key to stopping his short passing game (due to his now pea-shooter arm).


Can I ask a dumb question that I have always wondered about? Romo just talked about how that long drive likely left the Chiefs defense worn out. Why would the Browns offense be less worn out? Weren't their players on the field the whole time (especially the linemen)? Just wondering.

You can think back to any team sport you played while you were younger. It's more tiring to play defense than offense. It's true in basketball, football, soccer, you name it.

That's why if one team has like 40 minutes of time of possession in football, it's the defense that suffers even though the offense was on the field at the same time for as many minutes.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.

What? Explain the strategic advantage here. I'm missing it.

[Acymetric]

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.
Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.


How would it be a reward? You want to score seven points and have the ball at the end zone. You lose the ball, it slips out of bounds. It would be incredibly hard to do on purpose, and would also be against the intent of scoring seven points. Back it up to the twenty, reset downs.
At the very least you would have to have a different rule for 4th down. 4th and goal from the 3. RB fumbles the ball out the end zone before crossing the goal line...and the team gets a fresh set of downs 1st and 10 from the 20? If that isn't a reward I don't know what is, even if it would be next to impossible (and, as you mentioned, impractical) to pull off on purpose. I would argue it is probably still unfair on 3rd down, where the defense has forced a 4th down and potentially a field goal, but now instead because they forced a fumble instead of just stopping the guy the offense gets a fresh start from the 20 to try and score a TD.

I stand by either putting the ball at the original line of scrimmage or putting it at the spot of the foul and advancing the downs like a normal play. I could even see a fumble out the endzone being a 5-10 yard penalty. We agree it shouldn't be a frigging touchback at least. This rule has driven me crazy every time it has happened in a game.

[Acymetric]

None of this discussion makes any sense. If the offensive team gets the ball back when a ball goes out in the endzone, that means a loose ball in the end zone goes from a 50/50 ball to about 70/30, as one team doesn't need to possess the ball but to possess the ball or knock it out of bounds while the other has to control it.


Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.


Wanted to add one more thought that I realized thinking about this a little more. It is already the 70/30 split you complain about here, just in favor of the defense instead of the offense (defense can recover or knock it out of bounds, offense has to actually recover).

[AZLA]

Well, batting the ball would still be a penalty so knocking the ball out of bounds on purpose would be a no go. I'll point out that a fumble in your own endzone is basically 100% in favor of the defense (either TD of safety), so having a fumble in your opponent's endzone being 70/30 in favor of the offense doesn't seem inherently unfair to me.


At the very least you would have to have a different rule for 4th down. 4th and goal from the 3. RB fumbles the ball out the end zone before crossing the goal line...and the team gets a fresh set of downs 1st and 10 from the 20? If that isn't a reward I don't know what is, even if it would be next to impossible (and, as you mentioned, impractical) to pull off on purpose. I would argue it is probably still unfair on 3rd down, where the defense has forced a 4th down and potentially a field goal, but now instead because they forced a fumble instead of just stopping the guy the offense gets a fresh start from the 20 to try and score a TD.

I stand by either putting the ball at the original line of scrimmage or putting it at the spot of the foul and advancing the downs like a normal play. I could even see a fumble out the endzone being a 5-10 yard penalty. We agree it shouldn't be a frigging touchback at least. This rule has driven me crazy every time it has happened in a game.

Respect your opinion. But the rule is great. Football is not just about offense but defense, and defending your goal line. Today’s game rules are skewed heavily to reward offense and scoring, which is why it has become a passing league. If an offense player is about to score a TD but looses possession and the ball goes into the end zone, and if an offensive player recovers, they score 6 points with the option to go for 1 or 2 more. Kinda unfair. In rugby for example the ball would be taken far back on the pitch and still in the offense’s possession. In football it’s 7 points. Where as defense only gets it at their 20 yard line. This heavily favors and rewards the offense if they regain control. If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense, and they not only get it back, they get it back where it went out if it’s anywhere else on the field besides the end zone. Out of 120 yards of the field, for 100 of yards of it, the offense is rewarded with the ball. The end zone is what the defense is defending — it’s their last stand — and considering how rewarded offense is by the rules and that it is so rare and they get less than 17% out of bounds ruling for the entire field — this is the last equalizer for Defense that they have. And it’s a great rule in my opinion. That being said the hit wouldn’t have been flagged even a few years ago, but it was clearly targeting and Cleveland should have been awarded the ball based at the point of foul.

Lastly, same for basketball, if there’s a tie up for a ball, there should not be a possession arrow or jump ball — I believe that defense should always be awarded the ball. Just an opinion.

[Steven43]

I don't feel quite as strongly as you do, but I am definitely feeling some Patrick Mahomes fatigue, they are pushing him hard as the face of the NFL.

You may have noticed a Baker Mayfield commercial or two (hundred).

Oh, and lest I forget, there have been so many Aaron Rodgers commercials over the past five years that it seems like there is a channel devoted solely to him.

[Acymetric]

You may have noticed a Baker Mayfield commercial or two (hundred).

Oh, and lest I forget, there have been so many Aaron Rodgers commercials over the past five years that it seems like there is a channel devoted solely to him.

The Mahomes thing isn't just about the commercials, or even about the commercials at all. Mahomes is a point of conversation in basically every NFL broadcast I've watched this year. He is everywhere​. I happen to like both the Baker and Mahomes commercials, to be honest.

[Acymetric]

Respect your opinion. But the rule is great. Football is not just about offense but defense, and defending your goal line. Today’s game rules are skewed heavily to reward offense and scoring, which is why it has become a passing league. If an offense player is about to score a TD but looses possession and the ball goes into the end zone, and if an offensive player recovers, they score 6 points with the option to go for 1 or 2 more. Kinda unfair. In rugby for example the ball would be taken far back on the pitch and still in the offense’s possession. In football it’s 7 points. Where as defense only gets it at their 20 yard line. This heavily favors and rewards the offense if they regain control. If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense, and they not only get it back, they get it back where it went out if it’s anywhere else on the field besides the end zone. Out of 120 yards of the field, for 100 of yards of it, the offense is rewarded with the ball. The end zone is what the defense is defending — it’s their last stand — and considering how rewarded offense is by the rules and that it is so rare and they get less than 17% out of bounds ruling for the entire field — this is the last equalizer for Defense that they have. And it’s a great rule in my opinion. That being said the hit wouldn’t have been flagged even a few years ago, but it was clearly targeting and Cleveland should have been awarded the ball based at the point of foul.

Lastly, same for basketball, if there’s a tie up for a ball, there should not be a possession arrow or jump ball — I believe that defense should always be awarded the ball. Just an opinion.

You say "If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense" but the defense benefits heavily from fumbles in both end zones (in huge, game changing ways), not just when the offense is in scoring position in the opposing end zone.

[Steven43]

The Mahomes thing isn't just about the commercials, or even about the commercials at all. Mahomes is a point of conversation in basically every NFL broadcast I've watched this year. He is everywhere​. I happen to like both the Baker and Mahomes commercials, to be honest.

I like the commercials just fine, especially the ones with Rodgers.

But in regard to the NFL promoting Patrick Mahomes, well, he deserves it. He’s probably the best player in the league (Rodgers is right there with him) and will be for the next decade or even longer. And he’s very likable and humble. What’s not to like?

[Acymetric]

I like the commercials just fine, especially the ones with Rodgers.

But in regard to the NFL promoting Patrick Mahomes, well, he deserves it. He’s probably the best player in the league (Rodgers is right there with him) and will be for the next decade or even longer. And he’s very likable and humble. What’s not to like?

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

[SouthernDukie]

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

BINGO! We have a winner!!!

You summed up my reason for rooting against KC (a team I almost always rooted for until now), and Mahomes in particular.

[bundabergdevil]

BINGO! We have a winner!!!

You summed up my reason for rooting against KC (a team I almost always rooted for until now), and Mahomes in particular.

They’re positioning him as THE face of the NFL. Football isn’t the star-driven sport that basketball is. When a guy like LBJ or (potentially) Zion comes along that does things people haven’t see before, it puts buts in seats, raises the value of ads, sells shoes and jerseys. The right superstar is worth billions and lifts all boats in the league sea with his appeal. Mahoney has that potential.

Y’all are right but that’s why. He’s going to make the league and everyone in it billions.

[Acymetric]

They’re positioning him as THE face of the NFL. Football isn’t the star-driven sport that basketball is. When a guy like LBJ or (potentially) Zion comes along that does things people haven’t see before, it puts buts in seats, raises the value of ads, sells shoes and jerseys. The right superstar is worth billions and lifts all boats in the league sea with his appeal. Mahoney has that potential.

Y’all are right but that’s why. He’s going to make the league and everyone in it billions.

I think the NFL is trying to make that true, but I don't think it is true. I'm not sure the excessive promotion of Mahomes does anything to raise the league's profile, because (as you noted) it just isn't a star-driven sport like basketball. The number of NBA viewers who are literally only tuning in to watch LeBron/Zion/Durant/etc. is probably pretty large. The number of NFL viewers who are only tuning in to watch Mahomes is...probably small (and getting smaller not larger now that the novelty has worn off).

Also, I'm sure it was an autocorrect thing, but I am dying at "Mahoney".

[bundabergdevil]

I think the NFL is trying to make that true, but I don't think it is true. I'm not sure the excessive promotion of Mahomes does anything to raise the league's profile, because (as you noted) it just isn't a star-driven sport like basketball. The number of NBA viewers who are literally only tuning in to watch LeBron/Zion/Durant/etc. is probably pretty large. The number of NFL viewers who are only tuning in to watch Mahomes is...probably small (and getting smaller not larger now that the novelty has worn off).

Also, I'm sure it was an autocorrect thing, but I am dying at "Mahoney".



Oh, geez. LMAO!

12325

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

I've never liked Brady. Maybe it's his arrogance or the stain of perceived cheating by him and his Pats coach. But I really respect his incredible clutch playing ability and amazing career. He's not very "athletic," but he just keeps on winning with his new team at age 43. He's a close runner-up to Bill Russell as the greatest winner in professional team sports.

[Acymetric]

I've never liked Brady. Maybe it's his arrogance or the stain of perceived cheating by him and his Pats coach. But I really respect his incredible clutch playing ability and amazing career. He's not very "athletic," but he just keeps on winning with his new team at age 43. He's a close runner-up to Bill Russell as the greatest winner in professional team sports.

It is really remarkable what he has done in his career, and what he is still doing now, and I wish he would stop. Honestly his play this year is a little reminiscent of Manning's final years (post surgery). His balls are still a little tighter than Peyton's were at the end, but they both kind of struggled to push the ball downfield at the end and won by being extremely cerebral and being able to pick apart defenses and make all the right throws.

[Steven43]

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.
You do understand that if it weren’t Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs who were being promoted most vigorously it would be somebody else, right? Would you then start hating on the next guy and team that is chosen? Seems like a pointless waste of time to me.

If you’re disgruntled with the promotion of a certain player and his team I would think it more appropriate to direct your ire at the promoters rather than the promotee.

[Acymetric]

You do understand that if it weren’t Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs who were being promoted most vigorously it would be somebody else, right? Would you then start hating on the next guy and team that is chosen? Seems like a pointless waste of time to me.

Did you read the post you quoted? I explicitly addressed that. Usually there are a handful of guys that get this treatment. This year, and to a slightly lesser extent last year, it has just been all Mahomes all the time.


If you’re disgruntled with the promotion of a certain player and his team I would think it more appropriate to direct your ire at the promoters rather than the promotee.

I will direct my ire as I please, thanks ;)

[Steven43]

It is really remarkable what he has done in his career, and what he is still doing now, and I wish he would stop. Honestly his play this year is a little reminiscent of Manning's final years (post surgery). His balls are still a little tighter than Peyton's were at the end, but they both kind of struggled to push the ball downfield at the end and won by being extremely cerebral and being able to pick apart defenses and make all the right throws.
I have to strongly disagree with your Peyton Manning comparison. Manning, in his final couple of seasons, was an embarrassment compared to Brady right now.

Though Brady wasn’t quite as sharp yesterday against New Orleans, he was throwing absolute lasers the week before against the Redskins. Perhaps you missed that game, I don’t know.

[Acymetric]

I have to strongly disagree with your Peyton Manning comparison. Manning in his final couple of seasons was an embarrassment compared to Brady right now. Though Brady wasn’t quite as sharp yesterday against New Orleans, he was throwing absolute lasers the week before against the Redskins. Perhaps you missed that game, I don’t know.

I specifically noted that Brady is still throwing better balls than Peyton was. Please, please, read people's posts before you respond to them. That's twice in a row that I explicitly addressed your exact objection in the very post you were quoting.

Having said that, Brady's downfield stats are atrocious this year. Not just by Brady's standards, but by the standards of any starting QB. He is winning by picking apart defenses on short throws with very little in the way of deep balls. That he is able to do this without the benefit of any real deep ball to speak of makes it (unfortunately) all the more impressive. The comparison is that both guys managed to continue to succeed despite an apparent decline in physical ability (yes, Peyton declined more than Brady has so far) due to their instincts/knowledge of the game. That was the point and comparison I was making.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I specifically noted that Brady is still throwing better balls than Peyton was. Please, please, read people's posts before you respond to them. That's twice in a row that I explicitly addressed your exact objection in the very post you were quoting.

Having said that, Brady's downfield stats are atrocious this year. Not just by Brady's standards, but by the standards of any starting QB. He is winning by picking apart defenses on short throws with very little in the way of deep balls. That he is able to do this without the benefit of any real deep ball to speak of makes it (unfortunately) all the more impressive. The comparison is that both guys managed to continue to succeed despite an apparent decline in physical ability (yes, Peyton declined more than Brady has so far) due to their instincts/knowledge of the game. That was the point and comparison I was making.

Remember back when this board had a basketball team we used to discuss?

[Acymetric]

Remember back when this board had a basketball team we used to discuss?

Is that the game where players throw each other through apple baskets or something? I think I remember hearing about it once.

[Steven43]

I specifically noted that Brady is still throwing better balls than Peyton was. Please, please, read people's posts before you respond to them. That's twice in a row that I explicitly addressed your exact objection in the very post you were quoting.

Having said that, Brady's downfield stats are atrocious this year. Not just by Brady's standards, but by the standards of any starting QB. He is winning by picking apart defenses on short throws with very little in the way of deep balls. That he is able to do this without the benefit of any real deep ball to speak of makes it (unfortunately) all the more impressive. The comparison is that both guys managed to continue to succeed despite an apparent decline in physical ability (yes, Peyton declined more than Brady has so far) due to their instincts/knowledge of the game. That was the point and comparison I was making.

Nope, you gave Brady faint praise at best and said he should retire. And your comparison to Peyton Manning’s final couple of seasons was, frankly, absurd. Brady is playing at a WAY higher level than Manning was. No comparison whatsoever.

[Acymetric]

Nope, you gave Brady faint praise at best and said he should retire.
I most certainly did not, what is your deal?

[rsvman]

There is nothing unlikable about Mahomes the person. I'm just tired of the constant coverage and fawning (and the fact that we will likely be hearing it for the next 10 years or more as long as he stays healthy makes this worse, not better). It just needs to be watered down a little bit. Historically, there have been a handful of guys that got this treatment each season, but the past two seasons it has been Mahomes, Mahomes, and Mahomes. Heck, Rodgers' MVP season is practically an afterthought. He finally started getting the acknowledgment as likely deserving of the MVP nod down the stretch this season, but even in those conversations it ends up being "Yeah, Rodgers should probably win the MVP award this year, but how about that Patrick Mahomes, huh?" I really can't remember anything like it in any sport I've followed (since I've been following it). Maybe MJ in the 90s, but I was pretty young and not following the NBA or sports media at all at that point so I don't really know. Even peak LeBron wasn't quite like this.

It doesn't appear to matter whether anyone else is playing well, so the only hope for quelling the onslaught of Mahomes coverage is for him to lose. Thus, I've been pulling against the Chiefs all postseason and will continue to do so unless they face Tampa Bay.

I take it that you don't follow golf, then?

[Steven43]

I most certainly did not, what is your deal?

Here is a very recent quote from you in regard to Tom Brady:

“I wish he would stop.”

I interpreted that to mean you wish he would retire. What else could you have meant? My apologies if I jumped the gun on that one, but your intent seemed quite clear to me.

[Acymetric]

I take it that you don't follow golf, then?

I do not, but fair point ;)


Here is a very recent quote from you in regard to Tom Brady:

“I wish he would stop.”

I interpreted that to mean you wish he would retire. What else could you have meant? My apologies if I jumped the gun on that one, but your intent seemed quite clear to me.

"I wish he would stop" as in I'm not a fan of his and I'm ready for him to be done. That doesn't mean I think he should retire, he is obviously still capable of being a very good starting QB.

[tommy]

Respect your opinion. But the rule is great. Football is not just about offense but defense, and defending your goal line. Today’s game rules are skewed heavily to reward offense and scoring, which is why it has become a passing league. If an offense player is about to score a TD but looses possession and the ball goes into the end zone, and if an offensive player recovers, they score 6 points with the option to go for 1 or 2 more. Kinda unfair. In rugby for example the ball would be taken far back on the pitch and still in the offense’s possession. In football it’s 7 points. Where as defense only gets it at their 20 yard line. This heavily favors and rewards the offense if they regain control. If the ball is fumbled by offense anywhere else football, the rule favors the offense, and they not only get it back, they get it back where it went out if it’s anywhere else on the field besides the end zone. Out of 120 yards of the field, for 100 of yards of it, the offense is rewarded with the ball. The end zone is what the defense is defending — it’s their last stand — and considering how rewarded offense is by the rules and that it is so rare and they get less than 17% out of bounds ruling for the entire field — this is the last equalizer for Defense that they have. And it’s a great rule in my opinion. That being said the hit wouldn’t have been flagged even a few years ago, but it was clearly targeting and Cleveland should have been awarded the ball based at the point of foul.

Lastly, same for basketball, if there’s a tie up for a ball, there should not be a possession arrow or jump ball — I believe that defense should always be awarded the ball. Just an opinion.

I agree with you. I think the rules are too favorable to the offense. They make it too easy. This rule should remain. In addition the one that bugs me is the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule. Why can't it? I think these offensive players should have to be able to take a hit, fall to the ground and hang on to the fricking ball. Should be part of completing the play as a ball carrier or receiver. If you can't hang onto the ball when you hit the ground, you lose it. Fumble. That would be the rule if it was up to me.

[Acymetric]

I agree with you. I think the rules are too favorable to the offense. They make it too easy. This rule should remain. In addition the one that bugs me is the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule. Why can't it? I think these offensive players should have to be able to take a hit, fall to the ground and hang on to the fricking ball. Should be part of completing the play as a ball carrier or receiver. If you can't hang onto the ball when you hit the ground, you lose it. Fumble. That would be the rule if it was up to me.

I think there are a lot of good arguments to be made that things are too easy for offenses now (I agree there). That isn't a good argument in favor of a bad rule that favors the defense. Fix this rule, which rarely comes into play anyway so it isn't some grand leveling factor for the defense, and find other rules to tweak to balance out the offense and defense that actually make sense. Of course, the league isn't going to want to reduce scoring, as the genie is kind of out of the bottle as far as offenses putting up megapoints and I don't think we're ever going back, but that is a whole other conversation (not saying I think it is a positive development).

[SouthernDukie]

I think the NFL is trying to make that true, but I don't think it is true.

Exactly, and that's the crux of my dislike for him (more so than the Chiefs in general) right now. Stop trying to make fetch happen, as my 25 year old daughter would say.



It is really remarkable what he has done in his career, and what he is still doing now, and I wish he would stop. Honestly his play this year is a little reminiscent of Manning's final years (post surgery). His balls are still a little tighter than Peyton's were at the end, but they both kind of struggled to push the ball downfield at the end and won by being extremely cerebral and being able to pick apart defenses and make all the right throws.

This isn't a good comparison at all, and I'm going to assume you haven't really followed the Bucs this year. Living in Florida I get to watch each game, and have done so this year, closely monitoring Brady's arm strength and accuracy. Because it's Arians' offense, Tom has thrown more deep balls this year than I can ever remember him throwing in New England in over a decade. And when he misses, it's almost always long - not short. Right now he is nothing like old Peyton Manning or old Drew Breese. Brady still has a ton of arm strength. The only thing I've seen decline in him is some accuracy, but that's been going on for a few years now. But it's definitely not true that he's been unable to push the ball downfield and that he relies solely on dinks and such. Not at all.



I have to strongly disagree with your Peyton Manning comparison. Manning, in his final couple of seasons, was an embarrassment compared to Brady right now.

Though Brady wasn’t quite as sharp yesterday against New Orleans, he was throwing absolute lasers the week before against the Redskins. Perhaps you missed that game, I don’t know.

Correct. He has plenty of strength left in his arm. His mind is as sharp as ever. And his desire to win hasn't subsided in the least. If anything prevents Tom from competing at a high level in the next year or two, my guess is it would be his legs way before it would be his arm.

[jv001]

Exactly, and that's the crux of my dislike for him (more so than the Chiefs in general) right now. Stop trying to make fetch happen, as my 25 year old daughter would say.




This isn't a good comparison at all, and I'm going to assume you haven't really followed the Bucs this year. Living in Florida I get to watch each game, and have done so this year, closely monitoring Brady's arm strength and accuracy. Because it's Arians' offense, Tom has thrown more deep balls this year than I can ever remember him throwing in New England in over a decade. And when he misses, it's almost always long - not short. Right now he is nothing like old Peyton Manning or old Drew Breese. Brady still has a ton of arm strength. The only thing I've seen decline in him is some accuracy, but that's been going on for a few years now. But it's definitely not true that he's been unable to push the ball downfield and that he relies solely on dinks and such. Not at all.




Correct. He has plenty of strength left in his arm. His mind is as sharp as ever. And his desire to win hasn't subsided in the least. If anything prevents Tom from competing at a high level in the next year or two, my guess is it would be his legs way before it would be his arm.

Maybe the lack of arm strength had something to do with playing home games in NE. The weather in Tampa is much better and rumor has it that a new stadium with a retractable roof is on the way. So, he'll have at least one more year to play in warm weather for home games, @ Carolina,@ Atlanta and @NO. That's some nice weather for an older QB to play in. Not so much in the AFC East with the exception of Miami.

[uh_no]

Exactly, and that's the crux of my dislike for him (more so than the Chiefs in general) right now. Stop trying to make fetch happen, as my 25 year old daughter would say.



Yeah, medical advice says that if your children haven't learned how to fetch by 18, they never will.

[Acymetric]

Tom Brady had a 4 game stretch this year where he was 0-19 with 3 picks on deep balls. If folks want to pretend he hasn't lost something with his ability to throw deep I guess I can't help you.

[SouthernDukie]

Tom Brady had a 4 game stretch this year where he was 0-19 with 3 picks on deep balls. If folks want to pretend he hasn't lost something with his ability to throw deep I guess I can't help you.

Doubt the GOAT at your own peril.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Tom Brady had a 4 game stretch this year where he was 0-19 with 3 picks on deep balls. If folks want to pretend he hasn't lost something with his ability to throw deep I guess I can't help you.

Maybe he has ... but it appears that he hasn't lost his (more important) ability to win games.

[Acymetric]

Maybe he has ... but it appears that he hasn't lost his (more important) ability to win games.

Something I agree with, and made perfectly clear when I made the original point about his ability to throw deep declining. The stats don't lie, he was bad downfield this year, despite having better downfield weapons than he's had since Moss. He is also still capable of playing at an elite level in the short and mid range game, and clearly that is enough.

[SouthernDukie]

Something I agree with, and made perfectly clear when I made the original point about his ability to throw deep declining. The stats don't lie, he was bad downfield this year, despite having better downfield weapons than he's had since Moss. He is also still capable of playing at an elite level in the short and mid range game, and clearly that is enough.

Have you watched every Bucs game this year? Well I have. Brady was very bad early on with the long throws because he and his receivers were just learning each other. He’s certainly gotten better with the deep ball, and he has not lost any arm with those passes. I’m telling you straight up he hasn’t lost his ability to throw the deep ones.

But believe what you want.

[Steven43]

Something I agree with, and made perfectly clear when I made the original point about his ability to throw deep declining. The stats don't lie, he was bad downfield this year, despite having better downfield weapons than he's had since Moss. He is also still capable of playing at an elite level in the short and mid range game, and clearly that is enough.

Hey Acymetric, this one’s for you!!

A quarterback who is known as a risk taker will always keep a defense honest. That defense has to plan around the deep shots, leaving safeties back and loading the box at a lower rate.

With that in mind which quarterbacks have thrown deep the most so far in the 2020 season?

Number of Throws
Tom Brady 83
Matt Ryan 75
Aaron Rodgers 72
Patrick Mahomes 66
Josh Allen 65
Ben Roethlisberger 65
Drew Lock 64
Matthew Stafford 62

Buccaneers quarterback Tom Brady ends the year as the league-leader in deep passes attempted.

Overall:

Points Earned is one way to determine which quarterbacks have made the largest positive impact while throwing the deep ball. The core assumption of passing Points Earned is that each throw has a certain expected outcome based on information like the route, the depth, and the coverage. From that point, the passer and receiver split responsibility for how well they perform above that expectation. Throwing off-target passes and deserved interceptions (caught or not) will bury a signal-caller, while he will be rewarded for leading receivers to more yards after catch and making something out of a broken pocket.

This following stat shows which quarterback has helped his team win the most when throwing the deep ball:

Rank Player Points Earned
1 Aaron Rodgers 46.5
2 Tom Brady 28.9
3 Derek Carr 28.4
4 Deshaun Watson 26.2
5 Matthew Stafford 20.6
6 Kyler Murray 20
7 Daniel Jones 19.9
8 Russell Wilson 18.9
9 Patrick Mahomes 18.8
10 Justin Herbert 13.5

[rasputin]

I agree with you. I think the rules are too favorable to the offense. They make it too easy. This rule should remain. In addition the one that bugs me is the "ground can't cause a fumble" rule. Why can't it? I think these offensive players should have to be able to take a hit, fall to the ground and hang on to the fricking ball. Should be part of completing the play as a ball carrier or receiver. If you can't hang onto the ball when you hit the ground, you lose it. Fumble. That would be the rule if it was up to me.

This. The current rules favor the passing game. Everybody says Brady (or Brees, or Manning) is the GOAT. Nonsense. If QB's from an earlier age had had the rules and norms now in place, what do you think would be the passing yardage, TD's, etc. of quarterbacks like Unitas? Montana? I understand recent bias, but every five minutes somebody comes along who's the greatest of all time. That's garbage. I'll take Unitas, Montana, Starr, Staubach, against any of the current faves.

[TywinBlue]

I have been very impressed with Buffalo, but Kansas City with Mahomes has won 24 of its last 25 games.

Heart says the Bills; head says the Chiefs.

Thoughts ?

[bundabergdevil]

This. The current rules favor the passing game. Everybody says Brady (or Brees, or Manning) is the GOAT. Nonsense. If QB's from an earlier age had had the rules and norms now in place, what do you think would be the passing yardage, TD's, etc. of quarterbacks like Unitas? Montana? I understand recent bias, but every five minutes somebody comes along who's the greatest of all time. That's garbage. I'll take Unitas, Montana, Starr, Staubach, against any of the current faves.

A LOT more than the rules would need to be different in order for those older guys to have any level of success in the game today. Everyone's bigger, stronger, faster, smarter; schemes are more complex. No reason to believe they could compete like the did in the smokes and beer days.

[rsvman]

A LOT more than the rules would need to be different in order for those older guys to have any level of success in the game today. Everyone's bigger, stronger, faster, smarter; schemes are more complex. No reason to believe they could compete like the did in the smokes and beer days.

Montana, for one, is as good or better than any of the quarterbacks currently playing the game, imo.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Montana, for one, is as good or better than any of the quarterbacks currently playing the game, imo.

Oof. Tough call. Hard to balance the freedomthat QBs have today in regards to rules with the amazing athleticism that so many players in both sides of the ball have today. Much like Jordan/LeBron/Wilt. Comparing across eras is sort of like apples to kiwis.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Oof. Tough call. Hard to balance the freedomthat QBs have today in regards to rules with the amazing athleticism that so many players in both sides of the ball have today. Much like Jordan/LeBron/Wilt. Comparing across eras is sort of like apples to kiwis.
Let’s leave New Zealand out of this!

I agree. It’s hard to compare across eras. The game is played differently. What I think we can all appreciate, whether you love a QB or hate him, leadership is probably one of the common threads among guys at the level we’re discussing. Tampa has never had an on-field leader like Brady. Never. Not even close. Even guys like Brooks, Lynch, Barber or Sapp didn’t rise nearly to the level of Brady. The difference is clear, at least it is to me. This is a dangerous team not to be underestimated. The Bucs of the second half of the season are much better than the Bucs of the first half. I hope Brady has it in him for two more games.

[bundabergdevil]

Montana, for one, is as good or better than any of the quarterbacks currently playing the game, imo.


Oof. Tough call. Hard to balance the freedomthat QBs have today in regards to rules with the amazing athleticism that so many players in both sides of the ball have today. Much like Jordan/LeBron/Wilt. Comparing across eras is sort of like apples to kiwis.

These sorts of questions are perfect sports board fodder.

The test, if we could devise one, would be to have these old guys get cloned somehow and then put them through the modern systems with all the health, weight training, analytics systems and science available to the new guys. I'm sure some of them would continue to be great --- but, the idea that most the old guys could compete at the EXACT same levels of greatness in the modern game is just not defensible, IMO.

It also stands to reason that the longer a sport is around the more likely we are to see additional outliers like Lebron. I'm comfortable with saying the new guys are standing on the shoulders of giants but they're still a darn bit taller!

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Let’s leave New Zealand out of this!

I agree. It’s hard to compare across eras. The game is played differently. What I think we can all appreciate, whether you love a QB or hate him, leadership is probably one of the common threads among guys at the level we’re discussing. Tampa has never had an on-field leader like Brady. Never. Not even close. Even guys like Brooks, Lynch, Barber or Sapp didn’t rise nearly to the level of Brady. The difference is clear, at least it is to me. This is a dangerous team not to be underestimated. The Bucs of the second half of the season are much better than the Bucs of the first half. I hope Brady has it in him for two more games.

How would Steve Young have performed with rules that protect him from concussions?

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Oof. Tough call. Hard to balance the freedomthat QBs have today in regards to rules with the amazing athleticism that so many players in both sides of the ball have today. Much like Jordan/LeBron/Wilt. Comparing across eras is sort of like apples to kiwis.

Measuring greatness of team sport players must take into account the extent to which each player contributed to his/her team's winning. In football, this is particularly true for quarterbacks. The greatest players win championships in every era. On this basis, it's clear that Brady is the GOAT in football.

[camion]

These sorts of questions are perfect sports board fodder.

The test, if we could devise one, would be to have these old guys get cloned somehow and then put them through the modern systems with all the health, weight training, analytics systems and science available to the new guys. I'm sure some of them would continue to be great --- but, the idea that most the old guys could compete at the EXACT same levels of greatness in the modern game is just not defensible, IMO.

It also stands to reason that the longer a sport is around the more likely we are to see additional outliers like Lebron. I'm comfortable with saying the new guys are standing on the shoulders of giants but they're still a darn bit taller!

Butch: No, no, not yet, not until me and Harvey get the rules straightened out.

Harvey: Rules? In a knife fight? No rules!

[tommy]

Quarterback is an above-the neck position. Either you have the on-board computer or you don't.

The big difference between eras is the nature of the mental demands. When Starr, Staubach, etc. were playing, they called their own plays. Every thirty seconds they were evaluating score, time, down and distance, game plan, what's been working, what could work, personnel, etc. and then determining the best play, formation, blocking scheme, etc. That is mentally draining. The smartest one I ever saw was Griese. The QBs these days have the plays sent in so they don't have that mental burden.

What they do have to handle are defenses that are much more complex, aggressive, and varied, with constantly changing personnel as well. Lots of quick decisions both at the line of scrimmage and then mid-play, reading their keys, going through progressions, and then of course delivering the ball accurately.

Brady was and is great, and indeed maybe the GOAT. But I don't think it's fair to say that because a guy didn't win championships, he can't be considered in the conversation. Football is a team sport, and if you don't have a good offensive line, or running game, or receivers, or the team always has a bad defense, then even with a fantastic QB, you're not going to win. Doesn't diminish the greatness of the QB as it's not his fault if the rest of the team is not up to snuff.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

How would Steve Young have performed with rules that protect him from concussions?
From a Tampa Bay standpoint, all we can do is look back at his ONE year in TB and wonder what could have been.

[Bob Green]

I’m going with Green Bay to win the NFC. Davante Adams is a great receiver and will be a difference maker.

[kshepinthehouse]

I’m going with Green Bay to win the NFC. Davante Adams is a great receiver and will be a difference maker.

Going out on a limb huh? 😂

[Acymetric]

I’m going with Green Bay to win the NFC. Davante Adams is a great receiver and will be a difference maker.

I really hope so (pulling hard for Green Bay this year, Buffalo would be a tolerable secondary option). Hard for me to go with Adams over Rodgers as the difference maker though. Both critical to Green Bay's success for sure (I think Aaron Jones has gone somewhat overlooked but his ability to provide a consistent threat on the ground has been really important too...Green Bay hasn't always had that).

[Steven43]

Brady was sensational on that drive.

[Acymetric]

Not a great start for the Packers, they need to get a stop here to keep things from starting to get out of control.

[Steven43]

What a throw and catch by Rodgers and his receiver!

[Acymetric]

Amazing catch by Godwin but that ball was a duck ;)

[Steven43]

Wow, just wow, Leonard Fournette!!

[Bob Green]

Tampa Bay definitely got away with defensive holding on that interception.

[Steven43]

How’d Brady look on that TD throw to Miller?? 😊

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Amazing end to the half. Wow. Quite the cojones on that drive.

[kshepinthehouse]

How does that happen though

[kshepinthehouse]

All you have to do is not give up a touchdown. Just let them make a catch then tackle in bounds and the half is over.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Tampa Bay definitely got away with defensive holding on that interception.
Even Steven after they refused to call the late hit on Brady and then the most obvious false start I’ve seen all year.

[dukelifer]

How’d Brady look on that TD throw to Miller?? 😊

Like he is Super Bowl bound. He wills teams to win.

[Bob Green]

Tom Brady is picking on Cornerback King. Green Bay needs to adjust at halftime.

[Bob Green]

... and then the most obvious false start I’ve seen all year.

Green Bay left tackle started early a couple of times.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Green Bay gets ball first down eleven. Should be some fun fireworks in the second half.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wow. Does this turn into a smoke show?

[bundabergdevil]

Man, if Brady does this...it partly rewrites the balance of power in the Belichick - Brady story. Right?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Man, if Brady does this...it partly rewrites the balance of power in the Belichick - Brady story. Right?

Already rewritten weeks ago.

[Acymetric]

Browns fans asking where that call was on basically the exact same play a week ago.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is getting fun

[Bob Green]

This is getting fun

It should be an exciting 4th quarter.

[Steven43]

Perfect throw by Brady and a terrible miss by Evans.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Here comes the fun

[dukelifer]

Man, if Brady does this...it partly rewrites the balance of power in the Belichick - Brady story. Right?

Not really. Brady was always clutch- he showed it time and time again.

[Steven43]

Tampa Bay does not appear to have a top-flight punt returner. I don’t know if their best returner is injured or if the guys returning punts today are simply the best they’ve got.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

A lot of passes off of hands both ways. Cold? Nerves?

[Steven43]

A lot of passes off of hands both ways. Cold? Nerves?

I’m guessing it’s a combination of both.

By the way, Green Bay has been doing a good job against the run the past several drives.

[Acymetric]

Thought I saw some blatant holding on that Gronk catch.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Eight points. This game has lives up to the hype.

[cato]

I am so glad that I am not Ryan Succop right now. Excellent kick under pressure.

[Steven43]

Did you see that stiff-arm by Adams? He basically eliminated the Tampa Bay defender.

[Steven43]

I think Rodgers should have tried to run that one into the end zone.

[Steven43]

I don’t agree with kicking the field goal. I think they should have gone for the touchdown.

[Acymetric]

I don’t agree with kicking the field goal. I think they should have gone for the touchdown.

100% with you. No guarantee they see the ball again.

[Bluedog]

I think Rodgers should have tried to run that one into the end zone.

I was thinking the same thing. Might not have been a TD but had a lot of space and if it was then 4th and goal from the 2 or something, might have made a different decision.

[cato]

I think Rodgers should have tried to run that one into the end zone.

I was shocked he didn’t. It’s not like he had an open receiver.

[dukelifer]

100% with you. No guarantee they see the ball again.

Game over unless a mistake by TB

[Acymetric]

Game over unless a mistake by TB

Hell of a dive by that receiver. Such a weak call in those circumstances.

[Bob Green]

Pass interference / holding on cornerback Kevin King. He has been exploited in this game.

[Acymetric]

Oh, the Buccs are hosting the Superbowl? Yuck​.

[dukelifer]

Oh, the Buccs are hosting the Superbowl? Yuck​.

With Brady going for 7. Good for the league. He will likely face the Bills and that will be that.

[bundabergdevil]

Already rewritten weeks ago.

Well, it's due for further revisions. At the very least, we need to replace some periods with exclamation points.


Not really. Brady was always clutch- he showed it time and time again.

Not about his clutch-ness. The debate, pre-Bucs, was whether Brady could win without Belichick and vice versa. Brady, at 43, is about to take Bruce Arians and the Bucs to the Super Bowl. That's a powerful final chapter and a giant middle finger to anyone who entertained the idea that Brady couldn't win without Belichick. Belichick is going to punish some sweatshirts tonight, tell you that much.

[uh_no]

100% with you. No guarantee they see the ball again.

and they didn't.

Classic example of the safe "take the points" decision being losing football.

Even if they don't get the TD, they're in almost the same boat...they have to come back and score another TD anyway. So they saved themselves the need for the 2pc by costing themselves a chance of NOT needing a stop?

Totally totally insane decision, and the numbers agree. TB's chance to win went from 81->91% when they kicked (or thereabouts).

[kshepinthehouse]

Hell of a dive by that receiver. Such a weak call in those circumstances.

Not when he pulled the jersey so much that everyone on the field could see it. If he was a little more discreet prob wouldn’t have been called

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Hell of a dive by that receiver. Such a weak call in those circumstances.
Come on. He was clearly being held by the jersey. It was fully stretched out. Not even close.

[sagegrouse]

Not when he pulled the jersey so much that everyone on the field could see it. If he was a little more discreet prob wouldn’t have been called

That one shot of a jersey pulled out over a foot is a "money shot." Can't argue late flag -- and no, there were no comparable plays on the other side.

[Bob Green]

I’m rooting for the Bills but the Chiefs are going to win.

[-jk]

Come on. He was clearly being held by the jersey. It was fully stretched out. Not even close.

My favorite part was that he changed the hand he was using to hold the jersey!

-kj

[DukieInKansas]

So a Duke player is in the Super Bowl.

[Bob Green]

So a Duke player is in the Super Bowl.

Ross Cockrell.

[TKG]

Ross Cockrell.

That should help recruiting..... 😏

[SouthernDukie]

Doubt the GOAT at your own peril.

Don’t say I didn’t warn you, Acymetric. You have taken Brady hate to an entirely new level, my friend.

[uh_no]

Don’t say I didn’t warn you, Acymetric. You have taken Brady hate to an entirely new level, my friend.

me thinks you weren't in the non Boston north east at the height of Brady. Acymetric is Mr. Rodgers by comparison.

[JasonEvans]

Brady is playing in his 10th Super Bowl.

How many active QBs have even won 10 playoff games? There are only 3. Can you name them?

Big Ben has 13, Rogers has 11, Flacco has 10... Brady has 33.

-Jason "I'm no Brady fan... but https://compote.slate.com/images/25232d77-568d-43cc-8f02-78d55d606956.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=4668x3112&offset=0x0 " Evans

[DukieInKansas]

Enjoying this game so far. Let's go, Chiefs!

[Steven43]

me thinks you weren't in the non Boston north east at the height of Brady. Acymetric is Mr. Rodgers by comparison.

This is still the height of Brady. He just finished leading his team to its third straight road playoff victory and the Super Bowl, a team that was 5-11 in 2017, 5-11 in 2018, and 7-9 in 2019.

In contrast his former New England team, which he led to a 12-4 record last season, just finished 7-9 without him. Today was his 14th conference championship game. The next closest player, Joe Montana, led his teams to 7 conference championships. Brady is shattering the record books, and he’s not done yet.

[Steven43]

Brady is playing in his 10th Super Bowl.

How many active QBs have even won 10 playoff games? There are only 3. Can you name them?

Big Ben has 13, Rogers has 11, Flacco has 10... Brady has 33.

-Jason "I'm no Brady fan... but https://compote.slate.com/images/25232d77-568d-43cc-8f02-78d55d606956.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=4668x3112&offset=0x0 " Evans

Haha, that goat photo was funny. 👍🏻

[kshepinthehouse]

Brady is playing in his 10th Super Bowl.

How many active QBs have even won 10 playoff games? There are only 3. Can you name them?

Big Ben has 13, Rogers has 11, Flacco has 10... Brady has 33.

-Jason "I'm no Brady fan... but https://compote.slate.com/images/25232d77-568d-43cc-8f02-78d55d606956.jpeg?width=780&height=520&rect=4668x3112&offset=0x0 " Evans

Rodgers, Brees, Wilson?

[Acymetric]

Bills went way to conservative kicking that FG.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Bills went way to conservative kicking that FG.

Ask Green Bay about that strategy.

[Acymetric]

Ask Green Bay about that strategy.
Exactly what I was thinking.

[bundabergdevil]

Rodgers, Brees, Wilson?

I believe Brady has both played in and won more Super Bowls than those 3 combined.

[kshepinthehouse]

I believe Brady has both played in and won more Super Bowls than those 3 combined.

The question is who are the other three that have won 10 playoff games. But I’m sure you’re right

[CoachJ10]

Come on. He was clearly being held by the jersey. It was fully stretched out. Not even close.

https://twitter.com/andyhermannfl/status/1353480937040982016?s=21

As a Packer fan...this call was criminally bad. After letting TB grab Packer receivers all game long (UVA fans would have been proud)...to call this flop in this moment...it wrecked the natural outcome of the game from occurring.

[CoachJ10]

https://twitter.com/andyhermannfl/status/1353480937040982016?s=21

As a Packer fan...this call was criminally bad. After letting TB grab Packer receivers all game long (UVA fans would have been proud)...to call this flop in this moment...it wrecked the natural outcome of the game from occurring.

12384

12385

(This offensive holding also occurred on that “PI” call...

12386

[Bluedog]

https://twitter.com/andyhermannfl/status/1353480937040982016?s=21

As a Packer fan...this call was criminally bad. After letting TB grab Packer receivers all game long (UVA fans would have been proud)...to call this flop in this moment...it wrecked the natural outcome of the game from occurring.

I think it was a flop once he saw the pass being overthrown and given his jersey was grabbed, but that much of a grab is often called PI. However, I agree that the refs were "letting them play" throughout and were letting defenders get away with a lot throughout the game. So, I can understand both arguments. 1. It was a PI by the rulebook. 2. The flop/acting probably sold it more. 3. Other similar calls during the game were uncalled.


Thems the breaks sometimes unfortunately for Packers fans...

[SouthernDukie]

This is still the height of Brady. He just finished leading his team to its third straight road playoff victory and the Super Bowl, a team that was 5-11 in 2017, 5-11 in 2018, and 7-9 in 2019.

In contrast his former New England team, which he led to a 12-4 record last season, just finished 7-9 without him. Today was his 14th conference championship game. The next closest player, Joe Montana, led his teams to 7 conference championships. Brady is shattering the record books, and he’s not done yet.

Yep. But the Super Bowl will be a tough task if Kansas City is the opponent. Sadly, I think they are the super team for the next several years. I also think they beat Tampa handily (as they would anyone they faced). Just too many weapons.

[SouthernDukie]

I believe Brady has both played in and won more Super Bowls than those 3 combined.

And yet people here want to argue that he’s not the GOAT. It’s just patently absurd.

[Acymetric]

Ugh. Can we create a separate Tom Brady thread for the constant Brady talk? Going to get plenty of that the next two weeks as it is.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

https://twitter.com/andyhermannfl/status/1353480937040982016?s=21

As a Packer fan...this call was criminally bad. After letting TB grab Packer receivers all game long (UVA fans would have been proud)...to call this flop in this moment...it wrecked the natural outcome of the game from occurring.
There was holding going on all game on both sides that was not called. Your left tackle moved very early on several big plays - no call. Brady was hammered hard well after a pass with no call.

If King had not grabbed full hold of Johnson’s jersey, he would have caught that ball. But the holding slowed him down considerably. So you can just as easily argue that the egregious hold prevented the natural outcome of the game as well. Sorry about your team. But it’s not like the Bucs didn’t earn it.

[Bluedog]

Ovah. Costly time to have a ball in your arms, bounce off and right into the hands of the defender....

[SouthernDukie]

There was holding going on all game on both sides that was not called. Your left tackle moved very early on several big plays - no call. Brady was hammered hard well after a pass with no call.

If King had not grabbed full hold of Johnson’s jersey, he would have caught that ball. But the holding slowed him down considerably. So you can just as easily argue that the egregious hold prevented the natural outcome of the game as well. Sorry about your team. But it’s not like the Bucs didn’t earn it.

Yep. Missed calls both way throughout the game. The Packers were in no way robbed by the refs.

[SouthernDukie]

Ugh. Can we create a separate Tom Brady thread for the constant Brady talk? Going to get plenty of that the next two weeks as it is.

Can we create a separate Patrick Mahomes thread since all that’s all we’ll be hearing about for the next 15 years?

I think it’s a given that he at least ties Brady for the most Super Bowl wins. More than likely he will pass him up. Makes me sick to my stomach to think about that, but it is what it is.

[bundabergdevil]

Ugh. Can we create a separate Tom Brady thread for the constant Brady talk? Going to get plenty of that the next two weeks as it is.

Wait. Aren’t you the same poster that didn’t like all the Mahomes hype?!? You’re going to have a tough few weeks in this thread if you don’t want any sport’s board bs-ing about the two QBs IN the Super Bowl.

I can see the narratives now! Old school versus new school; Gen X versus Millennials; the King versus the prince who can’t wait to take his thrown.

Oh my god, I’m so excited for the narratives. Aren’t you excited for the narratives?!?! 😂😂

[mo.st.dukie]

As someone who grew up in Missouri going to Chiefs games and currently a resident of downtown KC, it is really weird that they could be a new dynasty in the NFL complete with haters. I have always just associated everything about the franchise with mediocrity and it seemed like it would be that way forever.

[CoachJ10]

There was holding going on all game on both sides that was not called. Your left tackle moved very early on several big plays - no call. Brady was hammered hard well after a pass with no call.

If King had not grabbed full hold of Johnson’s jersey, he would have caught that ball. But the holding slowed him down considerably. So you can just as easily argue that the egregious hold prevented the natural outcome of the game as well. Sorry about your team. But it’s not like the Bucs didn’t earn it.

There was no way that ball was catchable. That’s just not accurate.

And the holding by the Bucs defenders on the interception before half was terrible, far more egregious and far more impactful.

The packers had their chances...but that bad PI call at the end...was just a terrible call. No way around it.

[kshepinthehouse]

There was no way that ball was catchable. That’s just not accurate.

And the holding by the Bucs defenders on the interception before half was terrible, far more egregious and far more impactful.

The packers had their chances...but that bad PI call at the end...was just a terrible call. No way around it.

Lol. Of course it wasn’t catchable, hard to run when someone is stretching your Jersey and skiing behind you.

The Bucs interception should have been a penalty but it was much more discreet. Pulling someone by the shoulder is a lot harder for a ref to see than grabbing their Jersey and stretching it by a foot.

[DukieInKansas]

As someone who grew up in Missouri going to Chiefs games and currently a resident of downtown KC, it is really weird that they could be a new dynasty in the NFL complete with haters. I have always just associated everything about the franchise with mediocrity and it seemed like it would be that way forever.

29 years as season ticket holder - including the 80s - I'm going to enjoy every minute of winning.

I have given them back their capital C and the I.

[Duke79UNLV77]

And yet people here want to argue that he’s not the GOAT. It’s just patently absurd.

Been caught cheating 3 times and has a very suspect trainer with PED connections. He is as ineligible for GOAT consideration in my book as Bonds.