2020-21 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Troublemaker]

As always, there will sometimes/often be overlap with the "Dukies in the NBA" thread. But, there is still a decent amount of regular season NBA discussion that doesn't squarely fit into that thread, so therefore, this thread exists.

Season tips off tomorrow with Warriors-Nets and Clippers-Lakers. Man, it feels like last season just finished.

Season predictions? (You can come up with your own categories, of course). I'll go:


East #1 seed: Celtics
West #1 seed: Clippers

Rookie of the Year: LaMelo
MVP: Luka

East semifinalists: Celtics vs Heat
West semifinalists: Clippers vs Lakers

Champion: Lakers over Celtics


Note: all my predictions will, of course, be rendered moot by eventual injuries and trades (Beal, Harden, maybe others). Still fun to make them.

[SouthernDukie]

As always, there will sometimes/often be overlap with the "Dukies in the NBA" thread. But, there is still a decent amount of regular season NBA discussion that doesn't squarely fit into that thread, so therefore, this thread exists.

Season tips off tomorrow with Warriors-Nets and Clippers-Lakers. Man, it feels like last season just finished.

Season predictions? (You can come up with your own categories, of course). I'll go:


East #1 seed: Celtics
West #1 seed: Clippers

Rookie of the Year: LaMelo
MVP: Luka

East semifinalists: Celtics vs Heat
West semifinalists: Clippers vs Lakers

Champion: Lakers over Celtics


Note: all my predictions will, of course, be rendered moot by eventual injuries and trades (Beal, Harden, maybe others). Still fun to make them.

All I’ll say at present is this: “Lord, I hope you are wrong on that Finals prediction.” I can think of nothing more cruel than to have the Lakers surpass the Celtics in all time NBA Championships by beating them in the Finals. I would gag if that took place. Sick. Sick. Sick prediction. May God have mercy on your soul for even hinting at that outcome. :(

[Troublemaker]

All I’ll say at present is this: “Lord, I hope you are wrong on that Finals prediction.” I can think of nothing more cruel than to have the Lakers surpass the Celtics in all time NBA Championships by beating them in the Finals. I would gag if that took place. Sick. Sick. Sick prediction. May God have mercy on your soul for even hinting at that outcome. :(

Haha, it's definitely not the Finals I'm rooting for, for sure. I was trying to be objective and stuff.

I think the Finals I'd like to see (that is still realistic) would be Kennard's Clippers vs Kyrie and the Nets. I've always enjoyed watching Luke play going back to his high school clips, and Kyrie -- well, I've always loved his game as well, even though I hate what leaves his mouth sometimes.

[Troublemaker]

Explaining some of my predictions:



East #1 seed: Celtics
West #1 seed: Clippers.

Re: the East, just a gut feeling that if EVER there was a team that's not gonna care too much about the regular season, it'd be the Bucks. I gave serious consideration to the Nets capturing the best record in the East because they are very deep (in a Covid season), but ultimately I think they're going to load-manage Kyrie and KD too much to get there. With Boston, they have two healthy young studs in Jayson and Brown that are going to be there game after game and will play big minutes if needed, which ultimately tipped my decision towards them.

Re: the West, I just see the Clippers caring more about the regular season than the Lakers. (Particularly since in a hypothetical conference finals matchup between the two, the Lakers know they'll be playing 7 home games if crowds are allowed by then.). The Clippers need to use the regular season to build the chemistry that they lacked last season.





Rookie of the Year: LaMelo
MVP: Luka


Re: RoY, LaMelo is the best player in that draft, imo. So a straight line from that to the RoY prediction.

Re: Luka MVP. The voters will have Giannis fatigue, and as mentioned above, I don't think the Bucks will dominate the regular season like they have before. I think the Lakers are going to give Lebron plenty of rest, and he himself won't go that hard in his Age 36 season, and I think Luka's going to be a stud that carries Dallas to the 2 seed or maybe even the 1 seed over the Clippers. (Doesn't mean I'd take Dallas over LAL or LAC in a series, obviously).




East semifinalists: Celtics vs Heat
West semifinalists: Clippers vs Lakers


Re: the East, I just think, once again, the Heat and Celtics are going to be better playoff teams than Milwaukee or Brooklyn. (If the Nets make some in-season move with all their assets to get better on defense, I'll change my mind).

Re: the West. Easily the two best teams, and the Lakers will have 7 games of homecourt advantage, as mentioned.

[brevity]

Champion: Lakers over Celtics

Yawn. So basically I should just tune out now?

[FerryFor50]

Disagree on LaMelo as ROY. Way too limited on offense.

I'd say Immanuel Quickley or (and I hate to say this) Cole Anthony.

[SouthernDukie]

Haha, it's definitely not the Finals I'm rooting for, for sure. I was trying to be objective and stuff.

I think the Finals I'd like to see (that is still realistic) would be Kennard's Clippers vs Kyrie and the Nets. I've always enjoyed watching Luke play going back to his high school clips, and Kyrie -- well, I've always loved his game as well, even though I hate what leaves his mouth sometimes.

Whew! Now that’s a prediction I can get on board with! :)

[DavidBenAkiva]

Speaking of Luke Kennard, the Clippers just signed him to a 4-year, $64 million extension. That's a nice chunk of change and belief that his scoring ability will be the perfect compliment to Kawhi Leonard and Paul George.

[BigZ]

Luke Kennard the best Ohio High School player in LA

[bundabergdevil]

As always, there will sometimes/often be overlap with the "Dukies in the NBA" thread. But, there is still a decent amount of regular season NBA discussion that doesn't squarely fit into that thread, so therefore, this thread exists.

Season tips off tomorrow with Warriors-Nets and Clippers-Lakers. Man, it feels like last season just finished.

Season predictions? (You can come up with your own categories, of course). I'll go:


East #1 seed: Celtics
West #1 seed: Clippers

Rookie of the Year: LaMelo
MVP: Luka

East semifinalists: Celtics vs Heat
West semifinalists: Clippers vs Lakers

Champion: Lakers over Celtics


Note: all my predictions will, of course, be rendered moot by eventual injuries and trades (Beal, Harden, maybe others). Still fun to make them.

East: Bucks
West: Lakers (I think the Clippers are going to regress)

ROY: Tre Jones.........big gap.....James Wiseman. God help me if it's LaMelo. Blech.
MVP: If Luka puts up numbers again he'll have the fresh narrative and that's what drives MVP as much as anything else.

East: Bucks vs Celtics
West: Lakers vs Mavs (for fun)

Champion: Lakers over Bucks (last year LBJ wins one...)

[Troublemaker]

With the season starting tonight, any interest in a season-long NBA 20-21 Degenerates League?

Jason, what say you? Chime in here, everybody. I think we have 5 people who are interested, we should create the league and see how it goes.

[JasonEvans]

With the season starting tonight, any interest in a season-long NBA 20-21 Degenerates League?

Jason, what say you? Chime in here, everybody. I think we have 5 people who are interested, we should create the league and see how it goes.

I think someone else could set one up and would be allowed to mention it occasionally in this thread, but the DBR is not a big fan of gambling. We get away with it when it comes to college hoops, especially with an ACC focus, but I think we need to tread more lightly for other sports.

[Troublemaker]

I think someone else could set one up and would be allowed to mention it occasionally in this thread, but the DBR is not a big fan of gambling. We get away with it when it comes to college hoops, especially with an ACC focus, but I think we need to tread more lightly for other sports.

That doesn't make sense to me because nobody is using real money in the Degenerates contests. You can think of the fake money we bet as a "score" you receive for picking well (like in the golf Degenerates contests on Off-Topic).

Also, being in these contests is an anti-gambling deterrent for most people since most people inevitably do horribly. (You were recently eliminated from the ACC Degenerates league per your own rules for having a "score" of -5000, for example).

I mean, I don't really care that much. Have a contest, don't have a contest, whatever. But I just want the explanation to make some sort of sense :-)

[nmduke2001]

Rookie of the Year: Wiseman
MVP: Bold prediction - Zion will be deep in this conversation but will ultimately get Most Improved. Luka will win with Giannis 2nd and Tatum finishing 3rd

East semifinalists: Bucks vs Celtics
West semifinalists: Dallas vs Lakers

Champion: Bucks over Lakers

[JasonEvans]

That doesn't make sense to me because nobody is using real money in the Degenerates contests. You can think of the fake money we bet as a "score" you receive for picking well (like in the golf Degenerates contests on Off-Topic).

Also, being in these contests is an anti-gambling deterrent for most people since most people inevitably do horribly. (You were recently eliminated from the ACC Degenerates league per your own rules for having a "score" of -5000, for example).

I mean, I don't really care that much. Have a contest, don't have a contest, whatever. But I just want the explanation to make some sort of sense :-)

Look, I said someone can set it up and let folks know about it but to keep it sorta on the downlow because DBR is not a fan of gambling. Despite your protest, this kind of activity is clearly seen as a bit of an endorsement of gambling (and you tried to turn the last one into an actual gambling exercise by having folks invest in your picking prowess).

I'm not sure what more you want from me on this. If someone wants to set this up, go for it, but as a DBR mod, I will not be the person who runs it.

[Troublemaker]

Look, I said someone can set it up and let folks know about it but to keep it sorta on the downlow because DBR is not a fan of gambling. Despite your protest, this kind of activity is clearly seen as a bit of an endorsement of gambling (and you tried to turn the last one into an actual gambling exercise by having folks invest in your picking prowess).

I'm not sure what more you want from me on this. If someone wants to set this up, go for it, but as a DBR mod, I will not be the person who runs it.

That's clearly untrue. Check the thread. DBR poster smvalkyries suggested that, and I turned him down.

I don't "want" anything from you except for explanations that make sense (and also now not making things up about me :-)

Have a good day, my friend.

[BlueDevilStop]

Rookie of the Year: Wiseman
MVP: Bold prediction - Zion will be deep in this conversation but will ultimately get Most Improved. Luka will win with Giannis 2nd and Tatum finishing 3rd

East semifinalists: Bucks vs Celtics
West semifinalists: Dallas vs Lakers

Champion: Bucks over Lakers

I don't think Zion will win Most Improved Player as 2nd year players rarely get the award due to the natural expected progression. I do think that Zion is an All-Star this year.

[JasonEvans]

That's clearly untrue. Check the thread. DBR poster smvalkyries suggested that, and I turned him down.

I don't "want" anything from you except for explanations that make sense (and also now not making things up about me :-)

Have a good day, my friend.

You are right... sorry. I misremembered.

I am also sorry if my explanation does not make sense to you, but it is what it is. Frankly, I don't know why it matters. Like I said, if you (or someone else) want to set it up, go for it. What more do you need from me?

[-jk]

Look, I said someone can set it up and let folks know about it but to keep it sorta on the downlow because DBR is not a fan of gambling. Despite your protest, this kind of activity is clearly seen as a bit of an endorsement of gambling (and you tried to turn the last one into an actual gambling exercise by having folks invest in your picking prowess).

I'm not sure what more you want from me on this. If someone wants to set this up, go for it, but as a DBR mod, I will not be the person who runs it.


That's clearly untrue. Check the thread. DBR poster smvalkyries suggested that, and I turned him down.

I don't "want" anything from you except for explanations that make sense (and also now not making things up about me :-)

Have a good day, my friend.

Easy, guys...

We certainly don't want any real gambling/gaming on the board - regardless of who may have suggested it. That's a turn we don't need to take. Real-money gaming causes no end of trouble for too many people.

Personally, I think our current college hoops version of pre-season, ACC season, and post-season works well and gets people to pay attention to games in ways they might not otherwise. I wouldn't be opposed to a similar NBA version, especially if focused on the Brotherhood. I see it as another variation of money-free fantasy sports.

-jk

[Troublemaker]

I wouldn't be opposed to a similar NBA version, especially if focused on the Brotherhood. I see it as another variation of money-free fantasy sports.

Yep, I see all these contests belonging to the same bucket of "money-free fantasy sports," as you put it. That includes the fantasy football thread, the various degenerate golf contests, the original ACC basketball degenerates league (that I've won thrice, have I ever mentioned that :-), etc.


Easy, guys...

To be clear, I have been calm and have no issue with you or Jason, after various clarifications.

To get the thread back on track, let's pick an on-topic post above to respond to. Here we go:



West: Lakers

(I think the Clippers are going to regress)

Any particular reason? They're a very well run organization that I'm betting will have the chemistry issues solved. And Kawhi and George are not old enough (29 and 30, respectively) to have major age-related regression.

Frankly, one of the reasons I'm not in love with my Lakers title pick is that Lebron turns 36 in about a week. I mean, his body should be studied by science, and I think he'll be fine. Still, one of these years, inevitably...

[Travis]

Any particular reason? They're a very well run organization that I'm betting will have the chemistry issues solved. And Kawhi and George are not old enough (29 and 30, respectively) to have major age-related regression.

Frankly, one of the reasons I'm not in love with my Lakers title pick is that Lebron turns 36 in about a week. I mean, his body should be studied by science, and I think he'll be fine. Still, one of these years, inevitably...


The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21/22192797/nba-mavericks-lakers-suns-nuggets

The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.

I am not sure how to think about chemistry issues; last year was the first season for the superstar pairing on each team. You could wonder whether adding more established players could disrupt the Laker's chemistry. Alternatively, you could look at the Clippers and believe that some of the same chemistry problems are still there.

Just trying to support the return to NBA discussion. I personally will root for the unlikely outcome of the Pelicans beating the Trailblazers in the West and beating the Celtics in the finals (My NBA rooting interest is directly tied to the presence of the Brotherhood on the roster!)

[Troublemaker]

The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21/22192797/nba-mavericks-lakers-suns-nuggets

The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.

I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.

[Steven43]

I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.

I second all of this. The Clippers will almost surely be better this season than they were when we last saw them lose against Denver.

I think they’ll beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

[bundabergdevil]

Any particular reason? They're a very well run organization that I'm betting will have the chemistry issues solved. And Kawhi and George are not old enough (29 and 30, respectively) to have major age-related regression.

Frankly, one of the reasons I'm not in love with my Lakers title pick is that Lebron turns 36 in about a week. I mean, his body should be studied by science, and I think he'll be fine. Still, one of these years, inevitably...


The Ringer had an article analyzing four contenders based on their Pythagorean records: https://www.theringer.com/2020/12/21/22192797/nba-mavericks-lakers-suns-nuggets

The Clippers were not one of the four teams, but from the charts you can see they slightly under performed their expected record. The Lakers on the other hand were one of the largest over performers. This analysis would suggest that the Lakers are more likely to regress at least in terms of regular season record. A counter argument would be that the Lakers added better personnel around LeBron and AD while the Clippers lost talent on net.

I am not sure how to think about chemistry issues; last year was the first season for the superstar pairing on each team. You could wonder whether adding more established players could disrupt the Laker's chemistry. Alternatively, you could look at the Clippers and believe that some of the same chemistry problems are still there.

Just trying to support the return to NBA discussion. I personally will root for the unlikely outcome of the Pelicans beating the Trailblazers in the West and beating the Celtics in the finals (My NBA rooting interest is directly tied to the presence of the Brotherhood on the roster!)


Mostly what Travis said. I don't think the Clippers got better and lost one of their best players not named George or Leonard to the Lakers. I'm also not sold on Lue as a coach yet. Coaching LBJ during the height of his powers didn't sell me on him. And I just don't think their two stars fit well.

Highly sophisticated analysis, I know, but that's what my gut says.

[Steven43]

I don't think the Clippers got better and lost one of their best players not named George or Leonard to the Lakers.

Did you watch Harrell in the playoffs? He played poorly regardless of what the statistics may or may not appear to show and regardless of the meh Sixth Man award.

Every time they needed him to hit a three-pointer or make a big play he did not come through. It happened again and again. He’s the Lakers problem now. I still cannot figure out why they did the Clippers this huge favor.

[bundabergdevil]

Did you watch Harrell in the playoffs? He played poorly regardless of what the statistics may or may not appear to show and regardless of the meh Sixth Man award.

Every time they needed him to hit a three-pointer or make a big play he did not come through. It happened again and again. He’s the Lakers problem now. I still cannot figure out why they did the Clippers this huge favor.

You think the Clippers got better? I'd love for Luke to make me eat crow but I guess I don't see how they improved versus last year's debacle unless you're saying addition by subtraction with Harrell...

[Steven43]

You think the Clippers got better? I'd love for Luke to make me eat crow but I guess I don't see how they improved versus last year's debacle unless you're saying addition by subtraction with Harrell...

Yes, addition by subtraction with Harrell. And the positives of the coaching change (Doc has lost soooo many series that he should have won over the years), and the additions of Ibaka and Luke.

Read what Troublemaker wrote.

The Clippers were already close. Their offseason moves will put them over the top. And I’m not saying this as a biased Clippers fan; the Celtics are my team. But I do have to admit that I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.

[Steven43]

Wow, Kyrie and Kevin are already a combined 7-10 on FG, (2-3 on 3-pts). Nice start.

[LasVegas]

If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.

[Steven43]

If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.

That is a fair point.

And by the way, I expect the Lakers to win big tonight. And Harrell will probably play pretty well. He has huge motivation for this game.

[bundabergdevil]

Yes, addition by subtraction with Harrell. And the positives of the coaching change (Doc has lost soooo many series that he should have won over the years), and the additions of Ibaka and Luke.

Read what Troublemaker wrote.

The Clippers were already close. Their offseason moves will put them over the top. And I’m not saying this as a biased Clippers fan; the Celtics are my team. But I do have to admit that I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.


If the #2 is Playoff P for the clippers, give me the lakers.


I disagree with this. I think the Clippers got better, too, i.e. both L.A. teams are better than they were before the offseason.

I think Ibaka is better than Harrell, especially in a playoff setting. (I suppose you think the opposite if you believe the Clippers downgraded in talent?)

I also believe our Luke Kennard is better than Landry Shamet since Luke can create as a ball-handler, too, not just play catch-and-shoot.

Finally, I do think Tyronn Lue will prove to be an upgrade on Doc Rivers, for this specific situation and with this specific team and organization.

All the other changes to the Clips besides those three were pretty marginal.

I guess we'll see but, and I want all of you to consider this point carefully, it's the Clippers.

[Steven43]

I guess we'll see but, and I want all of you to consider this point carefully, it's the Clippers.

Might be the best point made thus far.

[SouthernDukie]

Might be the best point made thus far.

No, you made the best point when you stated, “I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.”

A shame the Nets took their foot off the Warriors’ throat in the 4th. I so wanted to see a 40+ plus point massacre. Just so I could watch Chuck and Kenny be at a loss for words in the post-game.

[SouthernDukie]

And as I expected, the NBA TNT guys are all hating on KD and the Nets. They didn’t like Durant’s lack of enthusiasm in the post-game interview, but they have to understand if you are going to talk crap about a teammate and friend like Charles did about Kyrie, and then pick the Warriors to romp on you at your own arena, you shouldn’t expect an outgoing interview. Now I really hope the Nets win it all.

[Steven43]

Now I really hope the Nets win it all.

What?! Come on, SD, what about the C’s???

[LasVegas]

Playoff P in early form tonight. Just whipped a pass to a wide open ref in the corner.

[SouthernDukie]

What?! Come on, SD, what about the C’s???

C’s are definitely my second choice in the East.

[WillJ]

Andrew Wiggins is terrible.

[Troublemaker]

You could see how much the Lakers care about the regular season, as Lebron wasn't on the court in the 4th quarter as the Clippers pulled away, and the Lakers didn't put him back in to attempt a comeback. Feeling good about my take that the Lakers won't be the 1-seed. (It's the right move for them in his Age 36 season and given that last season just ended recently).

Re: Paul George, it's a 48-minute game, haha. He ended up being the best player on the court yesterday, easily, despite the early pass to the ref. As for how good a #2 (i.e. second-banana) he is, I would say until recently, he would fit in just fine in the ranks of historical #2s. It's just that, after Steph recruited KD to his team, and Lebron recruited AD to his, the bar for second-bananas has been raised significantly recently. It's sick when your sidekick is a fellow top-5 player.

[Steven43]

Andrew Wiggins is terrible.

Yes, and I’m not sure why anyone in the Golden State organization expected anything different. The guy has a long NBA history of not being good at basketball, particularly in regard to making his team better. Larry Bird or LeBron James he is not.

This Golden State reboot might be in trouble. With Klay Thompson out for the year and Wiggins likely not helping much, they need Steph and Draymond to be healthy most of the regular season and all of the playoffs to have a chance to even be good, much less great.

[rsvman]

Wiggins can’t shoot. That’s his major problem, and has been since he set foot on a basketball court at his local rec league when he was 8 years old. It didn’t get better in high school, it didn’t get better at LSU, it’s not getting better in the NBA. He just can’t shoot.

[Troublemaker]

Yes, and I’m not sure why anyone in the Golden State organization expected anything different. The guy has a long NBA history of not being good at basketball, particularly in regard to making his team better. Larry Bird or LeBron James he is not.

This Golden State reboot might be in trouble. With Klay Thompson out for the year and Wiggins likely not helping much, they need Steph and Draymond to be healthy most of the regular season and all of the playoffs to have a chance to even be good, much less great.

Yeah, realistically, the Warriors are playing to get into the play-in tournament for the playoffs. Note: for those that don't keep up with NBA news, this season, the 7 to 10 seeds in each conference will play a play-in tournament to decide who the 7th and 8th teams in the playoffs will be.

FYI, for those hoping to see Zion and Brandon in the playoffs, if Golden St sucks this year, that's less competition for the play-in tournament.

For those wondering if the Pels or GSW can make the playoffs without the play-in tournament, it just seems the top 6 seeds will belong to six of these seven teams: Clippers, Lakers, Mavs, Jazz, Nuggets, Blazers, Suns. Those teams are just a notch above.

[jimsumner]

Wiggins can’t shoot. That’s his major problem, and has been since he set foot on a basketball court at his local rec league when he was 8 years old. It didn’t get better in high school, it didn’t get better at LSU, it’s not getting better in the NBA. He just can’t shoot.

Kansas, of course. But yes, Wiggins was once regarded as a generational talent assuming he could match his skill set with his athleticism. But he's 25 and the clock is ticking.

Or maybe you were talking about Ben Simmons, who also still can't shoot. But Simmons is an elite passer and Wiggins is not. Simmons can help a team get better. Not so sure about Wiggins.

But Wiseman looks like a keeper, especially for someone who has barely played since spring 2019.

[JasonEvans]

This Golden State reboot might be in trouble. With Klay Thompson out for the year and Wiggins likely not helping much, they need Steph and Draymond to be healthy most of the regular season and all of the playoffs to have a chance to even be good, much less great.

I'm far from convinced Dray is all that good at this point. He's 30 and his rebounds have fallen 4 years in a row and his assists have fallen 3 years in a row. He's never been much of a scorer. He seemed like he was a good 3 point shooter a few years back but he's been barely 30% on his three the past 4 seasons. And he has been badly injury prone lately.

The Warriors are also entering salary cap hell. Dray is under contract until 2024 at $25 mil per year. They are paying Wiggins 30+ mil per year until 2023. They are going to be $60 mil over the cap (and paying tens of millions in taxes) this season when they appear to be no better than a lower tier playoff team, if that. They are going to be fairly far into the tax for at least the next 3 seasons, unless they find a way to get rid of Dray or Wiggins or maybe Klay. Any you have to think that teams like Denver, Utah, Dallas, and New Orleans have better young cores that would allow them to vault into the Lakers/Clippers level better than the Warriors can.

I'm of the belief that the championship window has closed on the Warriors and it ain't close to reopening unless James Wiseman turns into the next Joel Embiid (which ain't impossible to imagine but seems unlikely for now). The novelty of bombing away from 3 that made Steph and the Warriors unbeatable and changed the way the game is played in the NBA has gone away. Plenty of teams have adopted that style. The Warriors revolutionized it, but the rest of the league has caught up and now the Warriors just ain't all that special any more.

-Jason "I still love watching Steph play... " Evans

[Travis]

Yes, addition by subtraction with Harrell. And the positives of the coaching change (Doc has lost soooo many series that he should have won over the years), and the additions of Ibaka and Luke.

Read what Troublemaker wrote.

The Clippers were already close. Their off season moves will put them over the top. And I’m not saying this as a biased Clippers fan; the Celtics are my team. But I do have to admit that I despise the Lakers. So there’s that.


I did not necessarily think that the Clippers got worse. I have just seen some "discussion by experts", which seemed to argue that the Lakers gained a lot with Harrell while the Clippers lost a lot. I was not too clear, but my point was that if you think the Clippers are going to regress (at least in the regular season) while the Lakers are not, one possible justification would be believing that the Lakers are much improved while the Clippers are not, as you are taking a stance against the history based on correlation between last year's Pythagorean record and this year's regular season record.

Outside of the statistics, I tend to lean towards Troublemaker's comment about LeBron's age as being more determinant a factor in the Laker's regressing in the regular season. Not necessarily because LeBron won't perform at a high level, but because the Laker's have less to prove in the regular season, and likely will look to manage wear and tear. LeBron already rolled his ankle a bit last night. Conversely, with the Clipper's underperforming narrative (both in the regular season a bit and significantly in the playoffs) they may have stronger motivation in the regular season. Of course, Leonard is known for "load-management" so who knows.

But I think the Pythagorean stats, and the general tendency for the top record to mean revert (eg. GS added Durant, arguably greatly improving their team, yet one less games), argues for the Lakers regressing more than the Clippers in terms of regular season record. I don't necessarily think that matters nearly as much for the playoffs, although home court could be more important this year than in the bubble, the impact may depend on if fans are able to attend en masse, which seem unlikely still to me.

[WillJ]

What did people think about the Nets? I was impressed (a bold statement, I know, given that they won by 25). They've got three elite bucket-getters (Kyrie, Durant, and Lavert), some excellent shooters (especially Joe Harris), and some good defensive pieces. It's a long season, but they're my current prediction to win the East. On the downside, DeAndre Jordan looks like he's cooked...which is too bad.

[rsvman]

Kansas, of course. But yes, Wiggins was once regarded as a generational talent assuming he could match his skill set with his athleticism. But he's 25 and the clock is ticking.

Or maybe you were talking about Ben Simmons, who also still can't shoot. But Simmons is an elite passer and Wiggins is not. Simmons can help a team get better. Not so sure about Wiggins.

But Wiseman looks like a keeper, especially for someone who has barely played since spring 2019.

You are correct, as usual. I was thinking of Simmons, who is a really good passer but a poor shooter. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

[bundabergdevil]

According to ESPN, the Rockets-Thunder game was postponed because too many Rockets are in the testing protocol and they can't field a team.

I'm also surprised the only televised game tonight does not involve Zion.

[cato]

I second all of this. The Clippers will almost surely be better this season than they were when we last saw them lose against Denver.

I think they’ll beat the Lakers in the playoffs.

It takes a lot to knock off LeBron James in the playoffs. If the Lakers are healthy and peaking, I don’t think the Celtics can get over that mountain.

How about this: if the Lakers and Clippers do meet, shall we wager a pie on the outcome?

[cato]

You think the Clippers got better? I'd love for Luke to make me eat crow but I guess I don't see how they improved versus last year's debacle unless you're saying addition by subtraction with Harrell...

The concern I have with Luke is keeping him on the floor during a seven game series against a powerful offense. Elite NBA teams are ruthless at exploiting a weakness in their opponent’s armor during the playoffs. I have not watched Kennard much in the NBA, so I don’t know if he has made the same jump in D that JJ did, but if he hasn’t, Katy bar the door.

[Steven43]

How about this: if the Lakers and Clippers do meet, shall we wager a pie on the outcome?
Definitely!!

[cato]

Definitely!!

Deal! It will be fun to watch if it happens.

[accfanfrom1970]

Lamelo 0 - fer, Vernon no PT.

[accfanfrom1970]

Love the Pelicans, enough to watch the nba... Ingram 9-15, Zion 7-9, JJ 7-13. Wish Frank was still there, Okafor too...

[Steven43]

Zion 7-9.

Ha, looks like Zion’s typical Duke FG stat line.

[BigZ]

Tatum calls game

[dukelifer]

Tatum calls game

Giannis not clutch

[BigZ]

Giannis not clutch

It’s one thing to miss but he short armed that. Total choke

[JetpackJesus]

It’s one thing to miss but he short armed that. Total choke

Ball don't lie.

[BigZ]

None of the Duke rookies got off the bench tonight. The covid shorten off season will really hurt those guys

[sagegrouse]

The concern I have with Luke is keeping him on the floor during a seven game series against a powerful offense. Elite NBA teams are ruthless at exploiting a weakness in their opponent’s armor during the playoffs. I have not watched Kennard much in the NBA, so I don’t know if he has made the same jump in D that JJ did, but if he hasn’t, Katy bar the door.

I watched a good portion of the Lakers-Clippers game last night. When Luke was on the floor, his teammates acted like he was the Invisible Man -- they never passed him the ball. A little contract envy out there, maybe?

[JasonEvans]

Look, I know Luka for Trae was a nightmare trade and will never, ever, ever be justified. MVPs don't grow on trees and the Hawks traded one. I don't care how good Trae may be...

Buuuuuuutttttt... Trae is really fun to watch. Tonight he scored 37 points in just 26 minutes. The Hawks sat him the entire 4th quarter because they were beating the Bulls by like infinity or something like that. He scored 37 points on just 12 shots, hitting 10 of 12 including 5-6 on 3s. 37 points on 12 shots... that's unheardof.

Oh, and his opposite number, Coby White, whew... not a good night. In addition to being torched by Trae all game long, Coby was a miserable 2-11 from the field. He took about the same number of shots as Trae, and scored almost 30 less points. Ouch.

For a Dukie connection, Cam Reddish got the start and was the Hawks second leading scorer with 15 points. He had some moments in the first half where he looked like a budding NBA star.

-Jason "the Hawks scored 83 points... in the first half. This may be a fun team to follow this season" Evans

[awhom111]

The first game showed why LaMelo ROY picks would be riskier than the usual rookie on a struggling team narrative. Neither Terry Rozier nor Devonte Graham plans on giving up their spot in the starting lineup anytime soon.


Yeah, realistically, the Warriors are playing to get into the play-in tournament for the playoffs. Note: for those that don't keep up with NBA news, this season, the 7 to 10 seeds in each conference will play a play-in tournament to decide who the 7th and 8th teams in the playoffs will be.

FYI, for those hoping to see Zion and Brandon in the playoffs, if Golden St sucks this year, that's less competition for the play-in tournament.

For those wondering if the Pels or GSW can make the playoffs without the play-in tournament, it just seems the top 6 seeds will belong to six of these seven teams: Clippers, Lakers, Mavs, Jazz, Nuggets, Blazers, Suns. Those teams are just a notch above.

I was thinking that the Suns should not be elevated to that level just yet, but they are playing like they want to be tonight. They did have an incredible bubble and made some pretty nifty moves.

It might just be the longtime Warriors fan speaking, but any optimism I had about the season evaporated with Klay's injury. The only hope that they would have had would have been mortgaging the future for some kind of trade taking on insane salaries.

[ice-9]

Look, I know Luka for Trae was a nightmare trade and will never, ever, ever be justified. MVPs don't grow on trees and the Hawks traded one. I don't care how good Trae may be...

Buuuuuuutttttt... Trae is really fun to watch. Tonight he scored 37 points in just 26 minutes. The Hawks sat him the entire 4th quarter because they were beating the Bulls by like infinity or something like that. He scored 37 points on just 12 shots, hitting 10 of 12 including 5-6 on 3s. 37 points on 12 shots... that's unheardof.

Oh, and his opposite number, Coby White, whew... not a good night. In addition to being torched by Trae all game long, Coby was a miserable 2-11 from the field. He took about the same number of shots as Trae, and scored almost 30 less points. Ouch.

For a Dukie connection, Cam Reddish got the start and was the Hawks second leading scorer with 15 points. He had some moments in the first half where he looked like a budding NBA star.

-Jason "the Hawks scored 83 points... in the first half. This may be a fun team to follow this season" Evans

Picked up Coby White for my fantasy...blech...but this kid is going to do well. He's an exciting player and if the Bulls ever get out of mediocrity, he'll be the engine.

[Troublemaker]

What did people think about the Nets? I was impressed (a bold statement, I know, given that they won by 25). They've got three elite bucket-getters (Kyrie, Durant, and Lavert), some excellent shooters (especially Joe Harris), and some good defensive pieces. It's a long season, but they're my current prediction to win the East. On the downside, DeAndre Jordan looks like he's cooked...which is too bad.

I'd still like to see a larger sample of games to see where the defense is at. It performed well in Game 1, but I think frankly that was just as much about GSW ineptitude.

As I mentioned above, Brooklyn is the team I'm rooting for to come out of the East, but I can't fully believe in it unless they have a defense that's in the 10 to 15 range. That offense, as mentioned, is going to be top-3 and possibly #1.

I also have no qualms with the coaching. For those that don't know, Steve Nash's lead assistant is his former head coach Mike D'Antoni. I have a feeling I know which one of those two is more responsible for designing the beautiful Nets offense we saw in Game 1. Not that Nash doesn't have a bright basketball mind -- he does -- but this is obviously his first head coaching job. He's really playing more of a CEO role for this team, someone who is good with emotional intelligence and can get the best out of Durant and Kyrie. This type of setup is going to pop up more and more for star-laden teams. You need the young, high EQ guy like Nash to interface with the stars; D'Antoni is going to produce a great offense, but can you imagine an old-school coach like him dealing with the various antics of KD and Kyrie?

[Troublemaker]

It takes a lot to knock off LeBron James in the playoffs. If the Lakers are healthy and peaking, I don’t think the Celtics can get over that mountain.

How about this: if the Lakers and Clippers do meet, shall we wager a pie on the outcome?


Definitely!!


Deal! It will be fun to watch if it happens.

Might I suggest a slight modification that will make it something fun to root for throughout the season instead of just waiting for a hypothetical matchup to take place in the playoffs.

Lakers represent the West in the Finals -- cato wins pie. Clippers represent the West in the Finals -- Steven43 wins pie. If neither win the West -- push.


The concern I have with Luke is keeping him on the floor during a seven game series against a powerful offense. Elite NBA teams are ruthless at exploiting a weakness in their opponent’s armor during the playoffs. I have not watched Kennard much in the NBA, so I don’t know if he has made the same jump in D that JJ did, but if he hasn’t, Katy bar the door.

No doubt, but I feel like Luke does have a role to play when the opposing team's stars sit late 1Q/3Q or early 2Q/4Q. He can help the Clippers' bench unit win those minutes (which will be fewer in the playoffs than in the regular season because stars play more minutes in the postseason.)

[Kdogg]

As I mentioned above, Brooklyn is the team I'm rooting for to come out of the East, but I can't fully believe in it unless they have a defense that's in the 10 to 15 range. That offense, as mentioned, is going to be top-3 and possibly #1.

I also have no qualms with the coaching. For those that don't know, Steve Nash's lead assistant is his former head coach Mike D'Antoni. I have a feeling I know which one of those two is more responsible for designing the beautiful Nets offense we saw in Game 1. Not that Nash doesn't have a bright basketball mind -- he does -- but this is obviously his first head coaching job. He's really playing more of a CEO role for this team, someone who is good with emotional intelligence and can get the best out of Durant and Kyrie. This type of setup is going to pop up more and more for star-laden teams. You need the young, high EQ guy like Nash to interface with the stars; D'Antoni is going to produce a great offense, but can you imagine an old-school coach like him dealing with the various antics of KD and Kyrie?

The Nets have three guys on the coach who have been head coaches. It’s all fine if they keeping winning but if things turn I wouldn’t be shocked if tribes start to form.

[Steven43]

Might I suggest a slight modification that will make it something fun to root for throughout the season instead of just waiting for a hypothetical matchup to take place in the playoffs.

Lakers represent the West in the Finals -- cato wins pie. Clippers represent the West in the Finals -- Steven43 wins pie. If neither win the West -- push.

I’ll have to think about that one. And if I do decide to take your suggestion cato might not want to go along with it.

If I were the Clippers I wouldn’t be too concerned with finishing #1 in the Western Conference. Even if they did the Lakers would still have a home-court advantage.

Anyway, it’s going to be one heck of a season with no shortage of interesting storylines. I’m pretty psyched about it.

[cato]

I’ll have to think about that one. And if I do decide to take your suggestion cato might not want to go along with it.

If I were the Clippers I wouldn’t be too concerned with finishing #1 in the Western Conference. Even if they did the Lakers would still have a home-court advantage.

Anyway, it’s going to be one heck of a season with no shortage of interesting storylines. I’m pretty psyched about it.

I’m good with what we’ve got. I’m not really into gambling, even if only for pies, but this is a nice way to remember a random pre-season conversation if the Clips and Lakers meet in the playoffs.

[SouthernDukie]

I’m good with what we’ve got. I’m not really into gambling, even if only for pies, but this is a nice way to remember a random pre-season conversation if the Clips and Lakers meet in the playoffs.

Don’t worry, guys. Sir Charles says both of you are wrong. The Trailblazers are taking the West, and Chuck is putting up $100,000 to prove it. So your pies mean nothing. ;)

[camion]

Don’t worry, guys. Sir Charles says both of you are wrong. The Trailblazers are taking the West, and Chuck is putting up $100,000 to prove it. So your pies mean nothing. ;)

I'll see Chuck's $100,000 with this. And my 100 grand has 30% less fat. :)

12098

[Steven43]

Don’t worry, guys. Sir Charles says both of you are wrong. The Trailblazers are taking the West, and Chuck is putting up $100,000 to prove it. So your pies mean nothing. ;)

Is this guy serious? He thinks Portland is going to the Finals??

[dukelifer]

Is this guy serious? He thinks Portland is going to the Finals??

Will have to play better than yesterday.

[kshepinthehouse]

Nets are legit.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Nets are legit.

Kyrie looks amazing so far.

[pfrduke]

Steph Curry making 105 threes in a row in practice is the best thing I’ve seen this year. The list of things I could do 105 times in a row without making a mistake is vanishingly small.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/26/steph-curry-105-threes-in-a-row/

[camion]

Steph Curry making 105 threes in a row in practice is the best thing I’ve seen this year. The list of things I could do 105 times in a row without making a mistake is vanishingly small.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/26/steph-curry-105-threes-in-a-row/

I could walk 105 steps.* :)



*No gum chewing.

[bundabergdevil]

Steph Curry making 105 threes in a row in practice is the best thing I’ve seen this year. The list of things I could do 105 times in a row without making a mistake is vanishingly small.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/26/steph-curry-105-threes-in-a-row/

That is genuinely amazing.

[Steven43]

Kyrie looks amazing so far.
I know it’s only been a couple of games, but I don’t think Kyrie has ever looked better. His handle is so spectacular that it looks like he’s got the ball on a string; he is completely unguardable.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I know it’s only been a couple of games, but I don’t think Kyrie has ever looked better. His handle is so spectacular that it looks like he’s got the ball on a string; he is completely unguardable.

He looks a video game on easy mode.

[Steven43]

He looks a video game on easy mode.

He does!

[ClemmonsDevil]

Steph Curry making 105 threes in a row in practice is the best thing I’ve seen this year. The list of things I could do 105 times in a row without making a mistake is vanishingly small.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/12/26/steph-curry-105-threes-in-a-row/

I was playing a ton the last few years. 2 leagues, plus with my teenage son a lot and games at the Y and at a local church. I am mid 40s, but a good shooter. I was shooting 25 3s everyday for years from 5 spots on the court (125 total). Could usually hit 18-21 of them from each spot. AND I NEVER SNIFFED EVEN 30 IN A ROW!!!!! I once hit 24 in row and was so excited. This is legitimately insane. Honestly, I think he is better than I am.

[kshepinthehouse]

I know it’s only been a couple of games, but I don’t think Kyrie has ever looked better. His handle is so spectacular that it looks like he’s got the ball on a string; he is completely unguardable.

He does. But he will get hurt like he does every other season.

[ClemmonsDevil]

He does. But he will get hurt like he does every other season.

Too soon

[rsvman]

I was playing a ton the last few years. 2 leagues, plus with my teenage son a lot and games at the Y and at a local church. I am mid 40s, but a good shooter. I was shooting 25 3s everyday for years from 5 spots on the court (125 total). Could usually hit 18-21 of them from each spot. AND I NEVER SNIFFED EVEN 30 IN A ROW!!!!! I once hit 24 in row and was so excited. This is legitimately insane. Honestly, I think he is better than I am.

Lol.
I was also a good shooter in my prime. Best I ever remember doing was 48 consecutive made free throws. From long distance I could make about 80% from the corner most of the time. I don't think I ever made more than ten in a row, though. When I was stationed at Fort Oed in the Army they had a shooting contest. 25 free throws and 25 threes (these had to be from all over and we were not allowed to shoot even two in a row from the same spot). I ended up winning both contests. Made 22 or 23 of the free throws. I think I only made 15 or 16 of the threes, but it was better than anybody else could muster, so I won.

Good thing I never had to make a living playing basketball......

[Steven43]

He does. But he will get hurt like he does every other season.

Ahhh yes, but what sheer genius on the court when healthy. Enjoy his brilliance whenever you can for as long as it lasts.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Lol.
I was also a good shooter in my prime. Best I ever remember doing was 48 consecutive made free throws. From long distance I could make about 80% from the corner most of the time. I don't think I ever made more than ten in a row, though. When I was stationed at Fort Oed in the Army they had a shooting contest. 25 free throws and 25 threes (these had to be from all over and we were not allowed to shoot even two in a row from the same spot). I ended up winning both contests. Made 22 or 23 of the free throws. I think I only made 15 or 16 of the threes, but it was better than anybody else could muster, so I won.

Good thing I never had to make a living playing basketball...

At basketball camp one year I hit 98 out of 100 and lost to my brother who hit 99 to win the camp title. Sigh...

[kshepinthehouse]

Ahhh yes, but what sheer genius on the court when healthy. Enjoy his brilliance whenever you can for as long as it lasts.

It’s probably blasphemous to say on here but I don’t really like him. His brilliance is in his game, unfortunately not in his brain.

[Steven43]

It’s probably blasphemous to say on here but I don’t really like him. His brilliance is in his game, unfortunately not in his brain.

Well, I don’t wish to speculate about Kyrie’s brain right now. Besides, I was specifically referring to his on-court brilliance, which is undeniable.

[SouthernDukie]

It’s probably blasphemous to say on here but I don’t really like him. His brilliance is in his game, unfortunately not in his brain.

Not blasphemous, but not very kind in my opinion. Enough people outside the family will attack and pile on, but we shouldn’t shoot our own.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Not blasphemous, but not very kind in my opinion. Enough people outside the family will attack and pile on, but we shouldn’t shoot our own.

He seems to be fair game on this board. I don't know if it is his very short and disappointing tenure at Duke, or his pseudo-intellectualism that he espouses. But the cat is definitely on a very very short list of athletes that have spent time at Duke.

Never a whiff of off-court issues, tons of charitable work, absurd handles, and a Duke player with a ring. I will have his back.

[bundabergdevil]

The Mavs beat the Clippers by 50 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267191), which seems worthy of mention (especially by me since I think the Clips will regress this season and of the mind this single game result proves it!!!)


TBF, Leonard is out and I hope he's on the mend after taking a nasty friendly fire elbow last game.

[Skydog]

The Mavs beat the Clippers by 50 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267191), which seems worthy of mention (especially by me since I think the Clips will regress this season and of the mind this single game result proves it!!!)


TBF, Leonard is out and I hope he's on the mend after taking a nasty friendly fire elbow last game.
By 51 - have to give'm credit for expanding their halftime lead by 1.

[SouthernDukie]

He seems to be fair game on this board. I don't know if it is his very short and disappointing tenure at Duke, or his pseudo-intellectualism that he espouses. But the cat is definitely on a very very short list of athletes that have spent time at Duke.

Never a whiff of off-court issues, tons of charitable work, absurd handles, and a Duke player with a ring. I will have his back.

Good. I will too.

[Steven43]

The Mavs beat the Clippers by 50 (https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267191), which seems worthy of mention (especially by me since I think the Clips will regress this season and of the mind this single game result proves it!!!)


TBF, Leonard is out and I hope he's on the mend after taking a nasty friendly fire elbow last game.

You may as well throw the results out the window with Leonard out. It would be like the Bucks without Antetokounmpo or the Lakers without James.

[howardlander]

You may as well throw the results out the window with Leonard out. It would be like the Bucks without Antetokounmpo or the Lakers without James.

Don't think either of those teams would lose by 50 though...

[Troublemaker]

It's a weird day for NBA results in general. The "Don't Jinx It" thread would explode if we used it for the NBA tonight.

[bundabergdevil]

Don't think either of those teams would lose by 50 though...

50 is a big number. In fact (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/12/27/dallas-led-by-50-at-halftime-puts-historic-beatdown-on-clippers/), the Clippers’ 50-point halftime deficit was the most a team has been outscored in any two-quarter span (first or second half) in the NBA’s shot clock era.

That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.

[Troublemaker]

50 is a big number. In fact (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/12/27/dallas-led-by-50-at-halftime-puts-historic-beatdown-on-clippers/), the Clippers’ 50-point halftime deficit was the most a team has been outscored in any two-quarter span (first or second half) in the NBA’s shot clock era.

That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.

Really? I think these guys are pros used to long NBA seasons where you have to "next play" the losses, even the bad ones.

Overall, I think the Clips are okay with a 2-1 record against a schedule to begin the season of @Lakers, @Nuggets, Mavs.

[bundabergdevil]

Really? I think these guys are pros used to long NBA seasons where you have to "next play" the losses, even the bad ones.

Overall, I think the Clips are okay with a 2-1 record against a schedule to begin the season of @Lakers, @Nuggets, Mavs.

Sure, they’re professionals and they got here by being ultra-competitive. Having one of the worst losses in NBA history hung on you will hurt...especially as they get reminded of it ad nauseum on social media and by the media. It was exceptionally bad, not a run of the mill thumping (otherwise I’d agree with you).

[Steven43]

Sure, they’re professionals and they got here by being ultra-competitive. Having one of the worst losses in NBA history hung on you will hurt...especially as they get reminded of it ad nauseum on social media and by the media. It was exceptionally bad, not a run of the mill thumping (otherwise I’d agree with you).

I don’t understand why the Clippers should care whether they lost by 1, 40, 50, or 60 points. Either way it still only counts as one “L”, not two or three. They know very well that they didn’t have their best player — who is one of the three best in the world.

Ultimately it’s just a regular season game. They’re going to lose at least 15-20 more of them. I’ll bet they’ve already put it behind them.

[bundabergdevil]

I don’t understand why the Clippers should care whether they lost by 1, 40, 50, or 60 points. Either way it still only counts as one “L”, not two or three. They know very well that they didn’t have their best player — who is one of the three best in the world.

Ultimately it’s just a regular season game. They’re going to lose at least 15-20 more of them. I’ll bet they’ve already put it behind them.

Really? You don't think a competitive professional athlete at the height of his profession cares about a historic butt-whooping? Worst loss in Clippers history, largest halftime deficit in NBA history...

It's of course just one loss but of course it's also embarrassing. Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

They get some leeway for Leonard being out but 50 point drubbings don't happen often or by accident.

[dukelifer]

50 is a big number. In fact (https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/12/27/dallas-led-by-50-at-halftime-puts-historic-beatdown-on-clippers/), the Clippers’ 50-point halftime deficit was the most a team has been outscored in any two-quarter span (first or second half) in the NBA’s shot clock era.

That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.
They will play better the next game but I think that it how long they will think about it. Clearly they can rationalize the loss.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

Wait. I'm supposed to feel bad for this stuff?

[moonpie23]

altho this is only one loss, a team that was supposed to come out of the west last year (due to adding george and leonard) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI) getting bounced by denver, having to absorb social media's punches for the off season, now seeing something like this, and the mental stress starts to stack up.

let's hope it continues....

[Troublemaker]

Really? You don't think a competitive professional athlete at the height of his profession cares about a historic butt-whooping? Worst loss in Clippers history, largest halftime deficit in NBA history...

It's of course just one loss but of course it's also embarrassing. Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you did something viewed as historically bad/stupid at your profession?

They get some leeway for Leonard being out but 50 point drubbings don't happen often or by accident.

I mean, I guess it depends on what precisely you think the impact of this loss will be in terms of range of outcomes for the Clippers. From an earlier post, it almost sounded like you believe this is a make-or-break moment for their season, in which case I very much disagree:


That kind of loss can really mess with a teams' head or be a powerful motivator. No matter how it plays out, they'll be thinking about it a lot.

See, I think there's basically zero chance the loss will mess with their heads so much that they go into a tailspin or something like that. I think they will be motivated to play hard next game, and then that'll be the end of it. The NBA season is too long and these pros are too used to moving onto the next game for this to be a make-or-break moment for them.

[bundabergdevil]

I mean, I guess it depends on what precisely you think the impact of this loss will be in terms of range of outcomes for the Clippers. From an earlier post, it almost sounded like you believe this is a make-or-break moment for their season, in which case I very much disagree:



See, I think there's basically zero chance the loss will mess with their heads so much that they go into a tailspin or something like that. I think they will be motivated to play hard next game, and then that'll be the end of it. The NBA season is too long and these pros are too used to moving onto the next game for this to be a make-or-break moment for them.

Not make or break, necessarily, but have an impact? Absolutely. Lots of moments can be season tipping points and this was definitely embarrassing. As moonpie noted, this team has also had some smoke swirling around it so I see this as another negative sign this team isn’t on the same page. Could it be a blip or serve as motivation? Sure. Could it be nothing? Also sure.

We shall see!

[Steven43]

Not make or break, necessarily, but have an impact? Absolutely. Lots of moments can be season tipping points and this was definitely embarrassing. As moonpie noted, this team has also had some smoke swirling around it so I see this as another negative sign this team isn’t on the same page. Could it be a blip or serve as motivation? Sure. Could it be nothing? Also sure.

We shall see!

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. 😉

[bundabergdevil]

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. 😉

As it were, I think the Heat will regress, too! I didn’t have them making the finals again.

I stand by my point: historic thumpings are not good for teams. A lot of y’all seem to think such smackdowns are the sign of a true champion! 😂

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As it were, I think the Heat will regress, too! I didn’t have them making the finals again.

I stand by my point: historic thumpings are not good for teams. A lot of y’all seem to think such smackdowns are the sign of a true champion! 😂

Duke got historically thumped by UNLV in 1990 and it took years to recover.

(I know, very different, not relevant, etc - just love how Duke reacted to that particular embarrassing loss)

[Troublemaker]

Hey bundabergdevil, the Miami Heat lost by 47 tonight. That’s very close to the number of points the Clippers lost by the other night. So are the Heat going to be psychologically scarred for the rest of the season the way you think the Clippers are?

Personally, I think both teams shrug it off as just another loss and it means nothing in the big scheme of things.

But mostly I’m just messing with you. ��

Yeah, and the Clippers -- still without injured Kawhi -- won by 20 in their next game after the 50-pt loss. I think they're going to be fine.

The through-line between the two 50-pt losses is Playoff Revenge, as the Heat memorably knocked off the Bucks in the playoffs a couple of months ago, and the Clippers did the same to the Mavs.

It's actually almost patronizing how little effort the Heat and Clips gave in their respective revenge games. "There, there, Bucks/Mavs, you can have this 'lil regular season win. We'll see you in the playoffs. Remember what happened there?" The NBA season is long, and this particular Covid season is compressed, with games per week going up. The NBA regular season has always been a war of attrition but especially so this season; you have to manage your energy reserves. Did it make sense to try to match the amped-up energy of a revenge-minded opponent for one measly regular season win? The Heat and Clippers decided not, and they're going to be fine. (Re: the Clips. No one doubts the Heat's chemistry, and yet they lost by 50, too!).

[bundabergdevil]

Yeah, and the Clippers -- still without injured Kawhi -- won by 20 in their next game after the 50-pt loss. I think they're going to be fine.

The through-line between the two 50-pt losses is Playoff Revenge, as the Heat memorably knocked off the Bucks in the playoffs a couple of months ago, and the Clippers did the same to the Mavs.

It's actually almost patronizing how little effort the Heat and Clips gave in their respective revenge games. "There, there, Bucks/Mavs, you can have this 'lil regular season win. We'll see you in the playoffs. Remember what happened there?" The NBA season is long, and this particular Covid season is compressed, with games per week going up. The NBA regular season has always been a war of attrition but especially so this season; you have to manage your energy reserves. Did it make sense to try to match the amped-up energy of a revenge-minded opponent for one measly regular season win? The Heat and Clippers decided not, and they're going to be fine. (Re: the Clips. No one doubts the Heat's chemistry, and yet they lost by 50, too!).

So, I've got "eats Wheaties" and "loses by 50" as checklist items on Steven's and TM's checklist for true NBA greatness. Anything else we should add? "Mid-game tweeting" and "prefers strip clubs to practice", perhaps?

I kid, I kid. This all brings up an interesting questions. Is there an order of magnitude loss that would cause either of you to move from "that's a good or neutral thing" to "that's probably a bad thing". 50 isn't big enough, clearly. How about 60? 70? Surely, an 80 point loss would be cause for concern for you both! By the time we get to 90, we may need to check that the Cougar's Middle School JV team isn't actually on the court...

...keep my drubbings in the respectable 20s and 30s where they belong, dag-nab-it!.

[JasonEvans]

The last two undefeated teams in the NBA are the Atlanta Hawks and the Orlando Magic... you could have made a lot lot lot of money in Vegas with that parlay ;)

[Troublemaker]

So, I've got "eats Wheaties" and "loses by 50" as checklist items on Steven's and TM's checklist for true NBA greatness. Anything else we should add? "Mid-game tweeting" and "prefers strip clubs to practice", perhaps?

I kid, I kid. This all brings up an interesting questions. Is there an order of magnitude loss that would cause either of you to move from "that's a good or neutral thing" to "that's probably a bad thing". 50 isn't big enough, clearly. How about 60? 70? Surely, an 80 point loss would be cause for concern for you both! By the time we get to 90, we may need to check that the Cougar's Middle School JV team isn't actually on the court...

...keep my drubbings in the respectable 20s and 30s where they belong, dag-nab-it!.

Ha! As long as I can explain the blowout (or at least think I can) -- whether it's injury, load management, or even just pure disinterest in matching the opponent's energy -- I wouldn't care if a team lost by 100. In fact, the degenerate in me would quickly check the schedule to see when their next game is played because all of a sudden, there may be value in betting the team who lost by a historical margin. (As it turns out, this method did earn in the case of the Clippers. Hmmm, lemme go check the Heat's schedule.)

[Troublemaker]

He probably does not come to mind because you have not seen him play enough. If you watch Trae, his passing and ability to find teammates is absurd. He was 2nd in the league in assists per game last season. His assist percentage, which measures how often he assists in a teammates basket while he is on the floor, is 42.8% for his career... Chris Paul and John Stockton are the only players in NBA history with a higher career assist rate.

Does Trae take some ill-advised shots? Yeah, but he is doing a lot less of that now than when he first came into the league. His FG% was just 41.8% as a rookie... not good. But he is at an impressive (for a guard) 53.1% so far this season. He is currently hitting better than 60% of his 2 point shots and 42% of his 3s. He has recognized that his shiftiness will allow him to draw fouls in a pretty big way and he is leading the league in FTA in this young season with 15.3 per game (he hits better than 90% of his FTs).

He is still a real problem on defense, but he is one of the most exciting players in the league to watch. I would be thrilled if he had come to Duke.

-Jason "with his ability to find bigs rolling to the basket, he's a pick and roll nightmare to NBA defenses... I think he is one of the top 3-5 offensive players in the league right now" Evans


With that glowing review, does he really fall that far behind Luka in terms of where they were drafted? From what you've said, it doesn't sound like Trae is that far away from being an MVP caliber player at some point. It's early yet, but the Hawks are 3-0 and the Mavs are 1-2. Seems like Luka's magic is not quite as magical withe lineup he's currently working with. I'm guessing that the lack of Porzingis allows opposing defenses to focus more on Luka, although i don't follow the Mavs that much. However, the obvious answer is that Luka no longer has a Duke alum to play with (Seth Curry), so...it's over.

Yeah, while I consider Luka to be the heavy favorite to win that trade that swapped Luka with Trae, I do not consider it a done deal. (And, in any case, hopefully Hawks fans can enjoy Trae regardless of where he and Luka rank in the pecking order). Ultimately, it's going to be playoff performance and accomplishment that will determine their respective legacies, and I *could* envision something like the following happening: Trae beats switches (a very common playoff defense) better than Luka does; specifically I think Trae might burn big men who switch onto him better than Luka does. Of course, even if this were true, you'd have counterbalance how much the gap is between the two on defense; Luka is considered to be an average defender that you can switch with while Trae is considered to be a poor defender that playoff offenses will target in switches.

So we'll see. But I think I laid out one path for Trae to win.

Also, note: The Mavs were notoriously bad in clutch situations last year. I mean, that's all the playoffs is: a bunch of recurring clutch situations.

Reading for the Mavs' lack of clutchness:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/1/7/21054370/diagnosing-the-dallas-mavericks-problems-in-clutch-time
https://www.mavs.com/crisis-in-the-clutch/
https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/luka-doncic-dallas-mavericks-clutch-offense
https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/06/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-clutch-shooting-buzzer-beater/

(The third article by Mike Prada is easily the best if you want to read just one).

[COYS]

Yeah, while I consider Luka to be the heavy favorite to win that trade that swapped Luka with Trae, I do not consider it a done deal. (And, in any case, hopefully Hawks fans can enjoy Trae regardless of where he and Luka rank in the pecking order). Ultimately, it's going to be playoff performance and accomplishment that will determine their respective legacies, and I *could* envision something like the following happening: Trae beats switches (a very common playoff defense) better than Luka does; specifically I think Trae might burn big men who switch onto him better than Luka does. Of course, even if this were true, you'd have counterbalance how much the gap is between the two on defense; Luka is considered to be an average defender that you can switch with while Trae is considered to be a poor defender that playoff offenses will target in switches.

So we'll see. But I think I laid out one path for Trae to win.

Also, note: The Mavs were notoriously bad in clutch situations last year. I mean, that's all the playoffs is: a bunch of recurring clutch situations.

Reading for the Mavs' lack of clutchness:
https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/1/7/21054370/diagnosing-the-dallas-mavericks-problems-in-clutch-time
https://www.mavs.com/crisis-in-the-clutch/
https://mikeprada.substack.com/p/luka-doncic-dallas-mavericks-clutch-offense
https://hoopshype.com/2020/08/06/dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic-clutch-shooting-buzzer-beater/

(The third article by Mike Prada is easily the best if you want to read just one).

I think it will also come down to how the team is built around each star. I'm a Hawks fan. I love Trae. He's so exciting to watch. That said, I will be shocked if Trae ends up being the better individual player when it comes to win shares or any of the advanced metrics.

Still, if the Hawks are able to build a team around him the same way the Warriors built a team around Steph, I could see Trae ending up with more postseason accomplishments plus sneaking in an MVP somewhere in there if he leads the league in scoring and assists at some point (which is certainly very possible). Steph is an amazing player and a surefire HOF. And yet, he was never the best player in the league. He had a perfect team and system built around him, though. That's pretty much my hope for the Hawks and for Trae.

Luca, on the other hand, could definitely be regarded as the best player in the league at some point. He's already close and he's still so young. He's truly phenomenal and I like watching him, too.

[JasonEvans]

Here's a little video of Trae making Kyrie look like... well... me on defense (that ain't good).

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/status/1344451820027060224

Perhaps the two best handles in the NBA on display tonight... this will be fun to watch.

[JasonEvans]

Here's a little video of Trae making Kyrie look like... well... me on defense (that ain't good).

https://twitter.com/TheCrossover/status/1344451820027060224

Perhaps the two best handles in the NBA on display tonight... this will be fun to watch.

Hawks lead the Nets 68-67 at the half. Game being played in Brooklyn and this is a great test of whether the early season success for the Hawks is an illusion or the real thing.

Trae has 16 points and 5 assists at the half. Kyrie has been a disaster, 1-10 from the field for 4 points and only 2 assists.

[SouthernDukie]

Losing Dinwiddie looks like it’s going to be a huge deal for the Nets. They barely hold on and beat the Hawks at home after losing their two previous games. Spencer was a key player for them, and I now believe they’ve gone from being favorites in the East to being no better than a 3 or 4 seed.

[Troublemaker]

Fun game. Way too much isolation play by Kyrie in the 4th quarter (he should at least alternate isos with Durant!) but hey, it was mostly successful as the Nets hang on for a win.

BTW, after their embarrassing 50-pt loss to the Bucks yesterday, the Heat came right back today and spanked the Bucks by double digits despite still playing without Jimmy Butler. I'm not getting the sense that these huge blowouts are leaving a dent on the psyches of these NBA teams.

[Troublemaker]

Losing Dinwiddie looks like it’s going to be a huge deal for the Nets. They barely hold on and beat the Hawks at home after losing their two previous games. Spencer was a key player for them, and I now believe they’ve gone from being favorites in the East to being no better than a 3 or 4 seed.

Well, seeding isn't going to have as strong a relationship to team quality as it usually does, i.e. the Nets could be a 3 or 4 seed *and* the favorites in the East (depending on trades, health, their improvement on defense, etc.)

The Nets' second loss was at home to Memphis in a game where they rested both Kyrie and Durant for load-management purposes. That tells you how much they care about the 1 seed.

Dinwiddie is a good player and his injury is definitely a blow to the team, but his being out wasn't responsible for the recent losses, and I don't think he's the difference between a 1 seed and a 4 seed. Load-management of Durant and Kyrie might be, though.

[sagegrouse]

Hawks lead the Nets 68-67 at the half. Game being played in Brooklyn and this is a great test of whether the early season success for the Hawks is an illusion or the real thing.

Trae has 16 points and 5 assists at the half. Kyrie has been a disaster, 1-10 from the field for 4 points and only 2 assists.

Not so fast...


NEW YORK -- — Kyrie Irving shook off three rough quarters to score 17 of his 25 points in the fourth, Kevin Durant had 33 points, 11 rebounds and eight assists, and the Brooklyn Nets handed the Atlanta Hawks their first loss with a 145-141 victory on Wednesday night.

[Troublemaker]

Hawks lead the Nets 68-67 at the half. Game being played in Brooklyn and this is a great test of whether the early season success for the Hawks is an illusion or the real thing.

Nets-Hawks rematch tonight Jason, COYS, etc!

Usually I'm stuffing myself and watching football on Jan 1st, but I might have to carve out some time to watch this rematch.

We'll see if they play another game in the 140s.

[budwom]

Nets-Hawks rematch tonight Jason, COYS, etc!

Usually I'm stuffing myself and watching football on Jan 1st, but I might have to carve out some time to watch this rematch.

We'll see if they play another game in the 140s.

This is the first time in many years when watching college football games on January 1 will be really interesting....in recent years the games have been largely of the meh variety.

[DukieInBrasil]

I just checked out KD's stats, and there's no apparent drop-off in his effectiveness post-injury, in fact he might be playing at roughly vintage KD productivity. I thought he would have perhaps be good, but less effective, which is what is typical post-Achilles injuries. He's setting a new standard for play after such a gruesome injury.
I haven't seen any games, so, does he look the same as vintage KD?

[kshepinthehouse]

I just checked out KD's stats, and there's no apparent drop-off in his effectiveness post-injury, in fact he might be playing at roughly vintage KD productivity. I thought he would have perhaps be good, but less effective, which is what is typical post-Achilles injuries. He's setting a new standard for play after such a gruesome injury.
I haven't seen any games, so, does he look the same as vintage KD?

Well they just lost their 4th straight after looking like world beaters to start the season.

[SouthernDukie]

Well they just lost their 4th straight after looking like world beaters to start the season.

4 out of 5, but still. And folk here dismissed my comment about how critical the loss of Spencer Dinwiddie would be.

[SouthernDukie]

And now Durant will be absent from the Nets for the next four games due to being in contact with a COVID positive individual.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Time to add Trey Young's jump backwards into defenders as one of the most obnoxious ways players fool refs into calling fouls that doesn't make for interesting basketball.

[LasVegas]

Time to add Trey Young's jump backwards into defenders as one of the most obnoxious ways players fool refs into calling fouls that doesn't make for interesting basketball.

Yeah what a bunch of crap that is. And he has the nerve to call out Grayson Allen? A joke.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Time to add Trey Young's jump backwards into defenders as one of the most obnoxious ways players fool refs into calling fouls that doesn't make for interesting basketball.

I like the NBA, but the way they reward certain players for flailing, jumping into defenders, and otherwise acting instead of playing basketball can be annoying. I agree that it’s getting pretty bad with Trae, though there’s only one Harden. Too bad Kyrie doesn’t start every game with basically 15 guaranteed free throw attempts. That will help your advanced efficiency numbers.

[Steven43]

I like the NBA, but the way they reward certain players for flailing, jumping into defenders, and otherwise acting instead of playing basketball can be annoying.

For reference please see Harden, James.

[Billy Dat]

Time to add Trey Young's jump backwards into defenders as one of the most obnoxious ways players fool refs into calling fouls that doesn't make for interesting basketball.

Love that Austin Rivers battled him in the 4th and managed to draw a key charge against him down the stretch. Austin also hit a huge 3 for the second game in a row and has made a huge impact off the bench since coming back from an injury the past few games. He was a great free agent signing for the Knicks. RJ also with a big game in a big W over Atlanta.

[Steven43]

Time to add Trey Young's jump backwards into defenders as one of the most obnoxious ways players fool refs into calling fouls that doesn't make for interesting basketball.
I think this is what you’re talking about; it’s a cheap and gimmicky way to play basketball.

https://sports.yahoo.com/trae-young-mastered-drawing-run-180036163.html

[SouthernDukie]

The Pelicans blow a big lead late (including up six with 20 seconds left) and lose to the Pacers by two in OT.

[Steven43]

The Pelicans blow a big lead late (including up six with 20 seconds left) and lose to the Pacers by two in OT.

Geez, that’s awful. Were you watching? Down the stretch did they try to get the ball to Zion where he could drive to the basket and at least force a defender to foul him even if he wasn’t able to make the shot?

[cato]

I think this is what you’re talking about; it’s a cheap and gimmicky way to play basketball.

https://sports.yahoo.com/trae-young-mastered-drawing-run-180036163.html

Cheap and gimmicky only works sometimes in basketball, which is one of the reasons I love the sport. To win at the highest level, you need to win without gimmicks.

[hustleplays]

Geez, that’s awful. Were you watching? Down the stretch did they try to get the ball to Zion where he could drive to the basket and at least force a defender to foul him even if he wasn’t able to make the shot?

Steven43, I agree with you, as did one of the announcers, who said that a task of Van Gundy has to be figuring out how to create more space for Zion to do his thing toward the basket. Zion is Hardenesque in driving to the basket and he will likely get more 50-50 calls as his reputation grows.

That said, I was disappointed to see that Zion did not double down on the shooter at the end of OT. That was Job #1. As the shot was launched he took a step toward the shooter and basket, but it was of course too late. He didn't switch quickly enough from guarding his guy who was on the wing waiting for a potential pass for a 3. Fundamental basketball at that point is to make sure that the guy with the ball does not have a non-contested shot.

The Pelican's #1 need is to improve their defense as BI [Ingram] confirmed in the post-game presser. The Pelicans are fun to watch and I think they will improve their D.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Cheap and gimmicky only works sometimes in basketball, which is one of the reasons I love the sport. To win at the highest level, you need to win without gimmicks.
Not a fan of Trae’s approach. And the thing is, he doesn’t need to do it. He’s too good for that kind of crap. Which is, I think, what makes it even more annoying.

[gep]

Just imagine if he did that to Grayson in a game... pulling Grayson into a foul... :cool:

[DukieInBrasil]

The Pelicans blow a big lead late (including up six with 20 seconds left) and lose to the Pacers by two in OT.


Geez, that’s awful. Were you watching? Down the stretch did they try to get the ball to Zion where he could drive to the basket and at least force a defender to foul him even if he wasn’t able to make the shot?

Both Zion and Ingram faltered late, missing several shots that would have ended up providing the difference to win in regulation. Once up 10 with under 2 minutes to play, Ingram finished like 1-7 and Zion 1-4 from the field. Ingram could be an All-Star level player this year, but he has been rather poor finishing games. I don't have stats to back this up, but it seems like about halfway thru the 4th quarter to the end of the game his FG% takes a big dive, ie., not finishing strong. Maybe it's conditioning, a change in the way defenses play, or a change in the way that refs call the game down the stretch. Ingram did have a key blocked shot that preserved the tie and forced overtime vs. IND though.

[Troublemaker]

4 out of 5, but still. And folk here dismissed my comment about how critical the loss of Spencer Dinwiddie would be.

Whoa, you must be feeling mighty sensitive (Clemson loss?) if you thought anyone was being dismissive. I'm almost certain that in my post I agreed that Dinwiddie is a good player that the Nets would miss, but... he's still not the difference between a dominant team and a below-.500 team. The elephant in the room for why the Nets started so well but then started losing is that they stopped playing defense. (And if you're going to commence searching for articles about Dinwiddie being a huge defensive difference-maker, you'll be very disappointed, haha).

Well, Nash shook up the rotation in a major way today with Durant out, placing a lot more emphasis on giving players who could be decent defenders playing time. Two of the bigger moves were starting Jarrett Allen over DeAndre Jordan (Allen being the better defender/player at this point in their careers) and putting Bruce Brown, a pretty decent defender, in the starting lineup as well. Kyrie also put in the defensive effort that was missing since the early games. Result was a spanking of the favored Jazz.

If the Nets defend, they're going to score enough to win.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Whoa, you must be feeling mighty sensitive (Clemson loss?) if you thought anyone was being dismissive. I'm almost certain that in my post I agreed that Dinwiddie is a good player that the Nets would miss, but... he's still not the difference between a dominant team and a below-.500 team. The elephant in the room for why the Nets started so well but then started losing is that they stopped playing defense. (And if you're going to commence searching for articles about Dinwiddie being a huge defensive difference-maker, you'll be very disappointed, haha).

Well, Nash shook up the rotation in a major way today with Durant out, placing a lot more emphasis on giving players who could be decent defenders playing time. Two of the bigger moves were starting Jarrett Allen over DeAndre Jordan (Allen being the better defender/player at this point in their careers) and putting Bruce Brown, a pretty decent defender, in the starting lineup as well. Kyrie also put in the defensive effort that was missing since the early games. Result was a spanking of the favored Jazz.

If the Nets defend, they're going to score enough to win.

Durant was first team all-NBA defense good before he was hurt. He’s scoring big time again, but I haven’t seen him approach his prior level on defense yet. Maybe with time.

[SouthernDukie]

Whoa, you must be feeling mighty sensitive (Clemson loss?) if you thought anyone was being dismissive.

Well bless your heart. LOL, only kidding. Us southerners are known for being more sensitive than our Yankee counterparts, but the only way I’ll be mighty sensitive is if OSU beats Alabama. :D

In spite of whatever stats you were referring to, I do think Dinwiddie helped the defense. I agree the substitutions tonight by Nash absolutely made a difference. Perhaps the Nets can right the ship and play like they did in the first couple of games. I also agree that we haven’t seen Durant round into his normal defensive form yet. If that happens I like Brooklyn’s chances in the East.

[bundabergdevil]

Surely the Suns aren't going to carry on this way?

[-jk]

Surely the Suns aren't going to carry on this way?

Can they rise above the noise and confusion?

-jk

[Green Wave Dukie]

Can they rise above the noise and confusion?

-jk

And soar ever higher?

[JasonEvans]

Covid starting to take out NBA games.

Mavs don't have enough players to play (gotta have at least 8) so tonight's game with the Pelicans is off: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1348687414362046466

The Celtics and Heat were postponed last night too: https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/01/10/0110-bh-s-celtics/

Lots of calls for Silver to put the season on pause for a month or two.

[JasonEvans]

Woj bomb: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1348698375676436488

NBA Board of Govs is going to have a special meeting tomorrow. I wonder if they will put the season on pause.

[SouthernDukie]

Woj bomb: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1348698375676436488

NBA Board of Govs is going to have a special meeting tomorrow. I wonder if they will put the season on pause.

Sounds like it.

[SouthernDukie]

Oh my goodness! The Nets have traded for Harden! Kyrie is not a part of the deal, as there is a three-way also involving Cleveland. But the Nets have given away almost everything, including four first round picks, to get Harden. I think this blows up in their face and was a terrible move.

[SouthernDukie]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1349464741882814466?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1349464741882814466%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthescore.com%2F

[Steven43]

Oh my goodness! The Nets have traded for Harden! Kyrie is not a part of the deal, as there is a three-way also involving Cleveland. But the Nets have given away almost everything, including four first round picks, to get Harden. I think this blows up in their face and was a terrible move.

It is beyond my comprehension to understand why the Nets would want to acquire James Harden.

[Acymetric]

Well, I definitely can't pull for the Nets now.

That is a ton of first round picks.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It is beyond my comprehension to understand why the Nets would want to acquire James Harden.

It will make them unwatchable for me. I can't stomach Harden's "offense."

[SouthernDukie]

It is beyond my comprehension to understand why the Nets would want to acquire James Harden.

I have no idea. It makes no sense to me unless they plan on getting rid of Kyrie too. Still, to have traded away so much for one guy is insane, imho.

[budwom]

It will make them unwatchable for me. I can't stomach Harden's "offense."

Likewise. Will they now allow the Nets to play with two basketballs? If not, what does Kyrie do on the court (assuming he comes back)?

[SouthernDukie]

It will make them unwatchable for me. I can't stomach Harden's "offense."

Agreed. Also, hard to imagine Nash was for this.

[bundabergdevil]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1349464741882814466?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1349464741882814466%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthescore.com%2F

Wow. Kept KD and KI. This seems to be a question of whether KI now > Russ then and KD post-Achilles and prima harden now.

[SouthernDukie]

Wow. Kept KD and KI. This seems to be a question of whether KI now > Russ then and KD post-Achilles and prima harden now.

Yes! I’ll say it one more time - this will blow up in the Nets’ face. If they end up as Eastern Conference champions, I will quickly offer a mea culpa.

[mkirsh]

Wow. Kept KD and KI. This seems to be a question of whether KI now > Russ then and KD post-Achilles and prima harden now.

As a Wizards fan I’d be happy to send Russ and Scott Brooks to the Nets

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

As a Wizards fan I’d be happy to send Russ and Scott Brooks to the Nets

Russ, KD, and Harden? Sounds familiar.

[bundabergdevil]

Yes! I’ll say it one more time - this will blow up in the Nets’ face. If they end up as Eastern Conference champions, I will quickly offer a mea culpa.

I tend to agree. It IS hard to bet against talent but, well, we'll see.

[BigZ]

This tells me that Kyrie will be back ASAP

[Steven43]

I have no idea. It makes no sense to me unless they plan on getting rid of Kyrie too. Still, to have traded away so much for one guy is insane, imho.

Not so fast, my friend! Commissioner Adam Silver just released a statement stating that the Brooklyn Nets will be allowed two basketballs on offense rather than the traditional one. So they might be okay.

Personally, I think they’re going to need three.

[duke96]

Maybe this is a heading strategy where the Nets assume that one of Kyrie and Harden will be willing to play on any given night.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I'm not an expert at negotiations but when the opposing side is absolutely desperate to get rid of an asset, you are usually considered to be in a pretty advantageous negotiating position. I have no idea why the Nets gave up so much to get Harden. Personally, I wouldn't have given up a Nathan's hot dog to get him as I think he is a net negative, despite how much he scores. But the Nets gave up way too much. At least make it fewer picks and/or pick swaps?

[bundabergdevil]

Not so fast, my friend! Commissioner Adam Silver just released a statement stating that the Brooklyn Nets will be allowed two basketballs on offense rather than the traditional one. So they might be okay.

Personally, I think they’re going to need three.

Does that mean Harden is awarded 3X the freebie travelling calls? I'm bad at math.

[JasonEvans]

This is one of the worst trades I can imagine.

Lets talk draft picks first -- The pick swaps in '25 and '27 and the unprotected pick in '26 are likely to be high lottery picks as The Nets will probably stink in about 4 years. Harden, KD, and Kyrie will be mid-upper 30s by then (and, as free agents, may have flown the coop if not retired). This deal hamstrings the Nets in terms of cap flexibility while also taking away their younger assets (more on that in a moment). Plus, by giving up many of their draft assets, the Nets won't be getting more young players around whom to build the team over the next few years anyway. The Nets are going to be awful in a few years and the Rockets will get all those picks. If the deal only involved the draft picks, it would be a pretty good haul for Houston... but there is more.

Houston also gets Oladipo. I'm not sure why Indiana did this deal or what they get out of it but, whatever. LeVert and Oladipo are basically the same player, good scorers who are not super efficient. LeVert is 2 years younger and a little better of a distributor while Oladipo is a better defender and more explosive. Bottom line is that the Nets gave up a very useful bench scorer... but that may be ok as I suspect the Nets may not need much bench scoring as I think they will try to have one of the their big three on the floor at all times.

The head scratching part to me is Cleveland's side of the deal. The Cavs sent Milwaukee's '22 first rounder (not worth much as the Bucks will be picking at the end of the first round), their '24 second rounder (who cares?), and Dante Exum (barely a rotation player) out in the deal... and they got back Jarrett Allen and Taurean Prince. Prince is fine, a rotation guy but not someone who really moves the needle. But how on Earth did the Cavs get Allen in this deal?!?! He's 22 years old and averages a double-double with nice rim protection. I think he's probably one of the 5 best young (under 25) centers in the league. It is not at all difficult to project him making an all-star team at some point in his career. And he is under team control on a favorable contract for a couple more years. A week ago, Allen had 19 and 18 with 3 steals and 2 blocks in a rout of Utah while utterly dominating his matchup with Rudy Gobert. How did Cleveland get him for Exum and a late first round pick?!?! What the !#^@& is happening here?

-Jason "There must be something that I missed... some asset that Cleveland sent out that makes this make sense. I just cannot understand it. The Cavs must have naked pictures of the Nets GM to get this deal" Evans

[Billy Dat]

This is one of the worst trades I can imagine.

Lets talk draft picks first -- The pick swaps in '25 and '27 and the unprotected pick in '26 are likely to be high lottery picks as The Nets will probably stink in about 4 years. Harden, KD, and Kyrie will be mid-upper 30s by then (and, as free agents, may have flown the coop if not retired). This deal hamstrings the Nets in terms of cap flexibility while also taking away their younger assets (more on that in a moment). Plus, by giving up many of their draft assets, the Nets won't be getting more young players around whom to build the team over the next few years anyway. The Nets are going to be awful in a few years and the Rockets will get all those picks. If the deal only involved the draft picks, it would be a pretty good haul for Houston... but there is more.

Houston also gets Oladipo. I'm not sure why Indiana did this deal or what they get out of it but, whatever. LeVert and Oladipo are basically the same player, good scorers who are not super efficient. LeVert is 2 years younger and a little better of a distributor while Oladipo is a better defender and more explosive. Bottom line is that the Nets gave up a very useful bench scorer... but that may be ok as I suspect the Nets may not need much bench scoring as I think they will try to have one of the their big three on the floor at all times.

The head scratching part to me is Cleveland's side of the deal. The Cavs sent Milwaukee's '22 first rounder (not worth much as the Bucks will be picking at the end of the first round), their '24 second rounder (who cares?), and Dante Exum (barely a rotation player) out in the deal... and they got back Jarrett Allen and Taurean Prince. Prince is fine, a rotation guy but not someone who really moves the needle. But how on Earth did the Cavs get Allen in this deal?!?! He's 22 years old and averages a double-double with nice rim protection. I think he's probably one of the 5 best young (under 25) centers in the league. It is not at all difficult to project him making an all-star team at some point in his career. And he is under team control on a favorable contract for a couple more years. A week ago, Allen had 19 and 18 with 3 steals and 2 blocks in a rout of Utah while utterly dominating his matchup with Rudy Gobert. How did Cleveland get him for Exum and a late first round pick?!?! What the !#^@& is happening here?

-Jason "There must be something that I missed... some asset that Cleveland sent out that makes this make sense. I just cannot understand it. The Cavs must have naked pictures of the Nets GM to get this deal" Evans

I agree that this deal baffles me, and I am not here to mount a hot take on why it's somehow a good deal. But, I have been hearing more and more discussions on NBA podcasts and the like about the seaming declining value placed on draft picks. Sean Marks has proven himself to be an astute GM as he pulled the Nets from the abyss and rebuilt the franchise in the wake of Prokhorov/Billy King (ouch) era when they made trades like this one. I can only guess that he feels like he can rebuild quickly, the same way he did last time, if this swing at the championship fails spectacularly within a few years. I think some GMs now feel like there is enough undervalued talent on other teams and outside the NBA to make draft picks less of a premium, especially if they aren't high lottery picks.

[JasonEvans]

I agree that this deal baffles me, and I am not here to mount a hot take on why it's somehow a good deal. But, I have been hearing more and more discussions on NBA podcasts and the like about the seaming declining value placed on draft picks. Sean Marks has proven himself to be an astute GM as he pulled the Nets from the abyss and rebuilt the franchise in the wake of Prokhorov/Billy King (ouch) era when they made trades like this one. I can only guess that he feels like he can rebuild quickly, the same way he did last time, if this swing at the championship fails spectacularly within a few years. I think some GMs now feel like there is enough undervalued talent on other teams and outside the NBA to make draft picks less of a premium, especially if they aren't high lottery picks.

I very much agree with the underlined. Once you get outside of the first 5-7 picks in a draft, you are throwing darts and hoping you get lucky. I mean, we routinely see 2nd round picks and undrafted free agents who turn out to have vastly better careers than even guys taken in the back half of the lottery.

But your odds of finding a difference-making player go up dramatically in the first half of the lottery. Virtually all the best players in the league were high draft picks. And when you consider the likelihood that the Nets traded multiple top 5 picks... well that's a lot to give up.

Look at last year's All-NBA teams and where those players were drafted:

1st team: Lebron (#1), Giannis (#15), AD (#1), Harden (#3), Luka (#3)
2nd team: Kawhi (#15), Siakam (#27), Jokic (#41), Lillard (#6), Paul (#4)
3rd team: Butler (#30), Tatum (#3), Gobert (#27), Simmons (#1), Westbrook (#4)

So, of the 15 best players in the league last year, 9 of them were top 6 draft picks. These are the difference-makers. These are the guys who can lead you to a title. Yeah, it is possible to strike oil and land one of them outside of the lottery, but your odds are much much much higher with a top half of the lottery pick. And I truly believe the Rockets just picked up at least 2 of those (plus a mess of other assets).

With no draft assets, no cap space, and aging stars who can go elsewhere are free agents over the next few years, is there really any way the Nets are not just godawful in 4 years?

-Jason "all three of these stars are only under team control for two seasons... they have player options for the 22-23 season... so the team does not even have long-term hold onto them" Evans

[brevity]

The Onion: Charles Barkley Blasts Today’s Fragile NBA Players Who Can’t Just Play Through Covid Like He Did (https://sports.theonion.com/charles-barkley-blasts-today-s-fragile-nba-players-who-1846058145)


“Back in our day, we were tough, and we were always out there on the floor, no matter whether we had Covid or how bad our Covid was,” said Barkley, recalling a 1994 game with the Phoenix Suns when most of the team came down with Covid in the first half and they still held on to beat the Utah Jazz.

Yes, it's ridiculous, but this is so him. I wish I could quote the whole damn thing.

12297

[kshepinthehouse]

I very much agree with the underlined. Once you get outside of the first 5-7 picks in a draft, you are throwing darts and hoping you get lucky. I mean, we routinely see 2nd round picks and undrafted free agents who turn out to have vastly better careers than even guys taken in the back half of the lottery.

But your odds of finding a difference-making player go up dramatically in the first half of the lottery. Virtually all the best players in the league were high draft picks. And when you consider the likelihood that the Nets traded multiple top 5 picks... well that's a lot to give up.

Look at last year's All-NBA teams and where those players were drafted:

1st team: Lebron (#1), Giannis (#15), AD (#1), Harden (#3), Luka (#3)
2nd team: Kawhi (#15), Siakam (#27), Jokic (#41), Lillard (#6), Paul (#4)
3rd team: Butler (#30), Tatum (#3), Gobert (#27), Simmons (#1), Westbrook (#4)

So, of the 15 best players in the league last year, 9 of them were top 6 draft picks. These are the difference-makers. These are the guys who can lead you to a title. Yeah, it is possible to strike oil and land one of them outside of the lottery, but your odds are much much much higher with a top half of the lottery pick. And I truly believe the Rockets just picked up at least 2 of those (plus a mess of other assets).

With no draft assets, no cap space, and aging stars who can go elsewhere are free agents over the next few years, is there really any way the Nets are not just godawful in 4 years?

-Jason "all three of these stars are only under team control for two seasons... they have player options for the 22-23 season... so the team does not even have long-term hold onto them" Evans

I think the Nets would have been better off keeping Lavert, Dinwiddie and Allen together.

[SouthernDukie]

I think the Nets would have been better off keeping Lavert, Dinwiddie and Allen together.

Duh. Seriously, there's no rational argument that the one of James Harden is better than the three of Dinwiddie, Lavert and Allen. Just no sane argument. The Nets were fools for making that trade.

[ice-9]

First of all, dwinwidie is still on the nets. Second, the argument isn't harden vs lavert + allen but harden + a replacement vs lavert + allen.

I don't think I would have done the trade either -- the number of picks given seem too much -- but "no sane argument" is just hyperbole.

[roywhite]

Watched a good part of the Lakers vs Pelicans which the Lakers won 112-95

Zion had 21 pts and 11 rebounds, Ingram had 20 points, but the Pelicans are just not getting much offense from the remaining starters or bench.

https://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401267347

[Troublemaker]

The problem with the trade is that the Nets gave up everything -- all their tradeable assets -- and so it makes it very difficult to improve their defense, for example. Just going by common sense, the only scenario where it's okay to trade everything is if after the trade, you know you have a great, championship-level closing five plus three more guys who are for sure quality playoff rotation guys. (And even then, you'd have to pray for no injuries...). As is, the Nets gutted their depth and have no idea who their closing five and their playoff rotation will be. It's a stunningly bad trade. Somewhere in this thread, I believe I actually posted the Nets were too competent to make this trade -- whoops.

The other thing is that if the Nets were willing to give up so much, they probably would've been better off trading for Bradley Beal and keeping an asset or two. Imagine getting Beal and keeping Jarrett Allen, for example. The difference between Harden and Beal isn't *that* much, if anything at all. (Beal is averaging 35 ppg through the early part of this season, fyi).

The only thing that can save the Nets is the buyout market later in the season. Harden going to the Nets *is* a signal to veteran ring-chasers that this is one of the three destinations or so (the two L.A. teams as well) to flock to. But who knows how robust that buyout market is going to be? Will a quality 3-and-D player emerge? A center that can close? And will the Nets get them instead of the competition? It's all a roll of a dice. Again, Brooklyn should've been dealing in much more certainty about their roster after this kind of trade where they give up everything.

[JasonEvans]

The other thing is that if the Nets were willing to give up so much, they probably would've been better off trading for Bradley Beal and keeping an asset or two. Imagine getting Beal and keeping Jarrett Allen, for example. The difference between Harden and Beal isn't *that* much, if anything at all. (Beal is averaging 35 ppg through the early part of this season, fyi).

I feel like Levert, two #1s, and a pick swap or two would have gotten Beal. That would make your closing lineup Kyrie, Beal, Harris, KD, and Allen... that's a devastatingly good team.

[SouthernDukie]

First of all, dwinwidie is still on the nets. Second, the argument isn't harden vs lavert + allen but harden + a replacement vs lavert + allen.

I don't think I would have done the trade either -- the number of picks given seem too much -- but "no sane argument" is just hyperbole.

Hold the phone, my friend. I was responding to another post expressing the view that keeping Lavert, Allen & Dinwiddie together was better than breaking that trio up for Harden. And Spencer still being on the team (but unavailable for the remainder of this season) doesn’t change the fact that those three will not be together going forward.

As for whether “no sane argument” is hyperbolic, I’ll leave that to others. I don’t believe it is, especially when you factor in the ages of all four players. Kyrie’s sage must have seeped thru all the walls at Nets HQ. That’s the only way the deal could appear sane, imho.

[Billy Dat]

The Ringer's Jonathan Tjarks takes a shot at explaining why these teams are going all in and trading their futures for right now
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/13/22230279/james-harden-trade-brooklyn-nets-rockets

[Troublemaker]

As for whether “no sane argument” is hyperbolic, I’ll leave that to others. I don’t believe it is, especially when you factor in the ages of all four players. Kyrie’s sage must have seeped thru all the walls at Nets HQ. That’s the only way the deal could appear sane, imho.

While I hate the trade as stated above, it's not literally insane for the Nets to do it. I really, really disagree with their decision, but disagreeing with me does not make one lack sanity (usually :-). So, yes, you're being hyperbolic.

The "sane argument" the Nets would make is that the leftover pieces on the roster *are* playoff-rotation-worthy (the team was just *that* deep to begin with, in other words), and between the underrated leftovers and the buyout market, they will eventually construct a championship-level closing lineup and playoff rotation. Now, like I wrote above, I think the odds are against this happening. But it's not like it's literally impossible it could play out this way, lol.

One championship redeems the trade. I don't think Brooklyn gets one before this new Big Three breaks up, but we'll see. That's why they play the games.

[SouthernDukie]

While I hate the trade as stated above, it's not literally insane for the Nets to do it... So, yes, you're being hyperbolic.

That’s absolutely, positively, the craziest thing I’ve ever read in my entire life!!! ;)

[SouthernDukie]

Harden had a huge debut with the Nets tonight! A 32/12/14 triple-double in a Brooklyn win. KD poured in 42 points as well.

[rsvman]

Everybody has been tripping over each other to post how bad a deal this trade was. Time will tell.
Brooklyn will probably win the next title just to make people stop telling them how stupid they are, lol.

[ice-9]

Hold the phone, my friend. I was responding to another post expressing the view that keeping Lavert, Allen & Dinwiddie together was better than breaking that trio up for Harden. And Spencer still being on the team (but unavailable for the remainder of this season) doesn’t change the fact that those three will not be together going forward.

Gotcha, my bad, took your comment out of context.


As for whether “no sane argument” is hyperbolic, I’ll leave that to others. I don’t believe it is, especially when you factor in the ages of all four players. Kyrie’s sage must have seeped thru all the walls at Nets HQ. That’s the only way the deal could appear sane, imho.

The Nets might be in trouble 4-5 years down the line, but they have a clear 3 year championship window if you look at the ages of their current core and possibly longer.

KD: 32 years old
Harden: 31 years old
Kyrie: 28 years old
Spencer: 27 years old
Harris: 29 years old
DeAndre: 32 years old

LeBron is 36 and still very much in championship form. KD's game has a lot less contact, so who knows, maybe he's got another 5 years of championship play in him.

That's six players comprising their current core (assuming Kyrie plays lol).

Bruce Bowen, TLC and Shamet are nice younger players that can step up to round out their rotation.

The Nets traded away their amazing depth, but there's enough there imo. They're just missing a reliable back-up big. Maybe they think Jeff Green is that guy, at least for this year?

They still have 3 empty roster spots, so let's see.

[WillJ]

I always take Lebron's side in any dispute, but I have to say that Courtside Karen was a breath of fresh air......well, that's not quite right....a breath of overly perfumed hair....perhaps that would be better. In any case, as Steven A noted, the NBA needs more insanity like this because, after all, it is entertainment. As for Karen herself, my wife's gossip site wondered whether this was an audition for the next round of Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm nodding my head, yes.

[Steven43]

I always take Lebron's side in any dispute, but I have to say that Courtside Karen was a breath of fresh air...well, that's not quite right...a breath of overly perfumed hair...perhaps that would be better. In any case, as Steven A noted, the NBA needs more insanity like this because, after all, it is entertainment. As for Karen herself, my wife's gossip site wondered whether this was an audition for the next round of Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm nodding my head, yes.

To which dispute are you referring? And who the heck is Courtside Karen?

[Steven43]

I always take Lebron's side in any dispute, but I have to say that Courtside Karen was a breath of fresh air...well, that's not quite right...a breath of overly perfumed hair...perhaps that would be better. In any case, as Steven A noted, the NBA needs more insanity like this because, after all, it is entertainment. As for Karen herself, my wife's gossip site wondered whether this was an audition for the next round of Real Housewives of Atlanta. I'm nodding my head, yes.

Don’t worry about it, Will; I looked it up.

[Troublemaker]

Very exciting potential finals preview with Nets v Clippers. It was a real shootout and Kyrie was dominant down the stretch with 39. He's shooting 94% from the FT line. So much Superstar Talent on the court in the final few minutes...Durant, Kyrie, Harden, George, Kawhi...fun game.


This was an amazing game! Entertaining analysis from bballbreakdown here - https://youtu.be/1lXJEKYNBU0

Nets have some weird losses but they seem to step up against the best teams.

Coming off the impressive win over the Clippers, the Nets have used that win to springboard into... mostly getting their butts kicked by the below-.500 Raptors through one quarter and change tonight so far. (ESPN)

[JasonEvans]

Coming off the impressive win over the Clippers, the Nets have used that win to springboard into... mostly getting their butts kicked by the below-.500 Raptors through one quarter and change tonight so far. (ESPN)

Well, Durant was out with Covid and then back from Covid and then out with Covid again... in the span of 2 hours. I mean, that can be kinda distracting.

[budwom]

I never lose any sleep over NBA matters, but I was a bit surprised to hear LBJ proclaim that scheduling an all star game was "a slap in the face." Really? Hey, I completely understand why players might well not want to play in an all star game given the painful nature of the season, no argument there, but a slap in the face? Just say you're too tired to participate, leave it at that. Must players seek slights, grievances, and the good old disrespect?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I never lose any sleep over NBA matters, but I was a bit surprised to hear LBJ proclaim that scheduling an all star game was "a slap in the face." Really? Hey, I completely understand why players might well not want to play in an all star game given the painful nature of the season, no argument there, but a slap in the face? Just say you're too tired to participate, leave it at that. Must players seek slights, grievances, and the good old disrespect?

I suspect given the sacrifices for last year's bubble, the short off-season, and the absence of fans at the event, he is not alone in his feelings.

[JasonEvans]

I never lose any sleep over NBA matters, but I was a bit surprised to hear LBJ proclaim that scheduling an all star game was "a slap in the face." Really? Hey, I completely understand why players might well not want to play in an all star game given the painful nature of the season, no argument there, but a slap in the face? Just say you're too tired to participate, leave it at that. Must players seek slights, grievances, and the good old disrespect?

It is possible that he, and other players, communicated to the league that they did not want an All-Star game given the short off-season, the compressed regular season, Covid craziness, and so on... but the league scheduled it anyway. In that case, I think the "slap in the face" metaphor would be more appropriate.

[Acymetric]

It is possible that he, and other players, communicated to the league that they did not want an All-Star game given the short off-season, the compressed regular season, Covid craziness, and so on... but the league scheduled it anyway. In that case, I think the "slap in the face" metaphor would be more appropriate.

The exact phrasing I've heard was that the NBA and NBAPA agreed to hold the all-star game. Now maybe the PA was really forced, and calling it "agreeing" was just window dressing, but my impression is that if they players really didn't want to hold it the NBAPA could probably have prevented it from happening.

[elvis14]

I had saved the GS vs Dallas game Saturday night and finally got around to watching it. Curry 57/2/5, Luka 42/7/11. Both teams scored 130+. It was just fun to watch. I'm a fan of both of these players and they both did a great job of driving their teams. Dallas won, despite Steph hitting 11 3's. That's not a typo, 11. Luke was great and hit a clutch 3 down the stretch that all but ended the game. I know people don't like his personality but Draymond Green's game, when he's playing well is just fun to watch. He plays D and makes great passes (he had 15 assists). If that guy could shoot...he'd be amazing (and yes, likely even more obnoxious :-) ).

It's going to be interesting to see if GS can put together another strong team next year (that assumes Klay comes back and plays like he used to). Their window might be closed since Green's play has dropped off some, Klay's been hurt twice and KD left but Steph is killing it and it would be cool to see them make another run.

[Billy Dat]

I know people don't like his personality but Draymond Green's game, when he's playing well is just fun to watch. He plays D and makes great passes (he had 15 assists). If that guy could shoot...he'd be amazing (and yes, likely even more obnoxious :-) ).

Draymond's stat line:
2 points
15 assists
6 boards
6 steals
7 turnovers
5 personal fouls

It's tough to pinpoint why his shooting fell off so much from the Golden State golden age of 6 years ago when he was near 40% on 3s. His foul shooting has improved over time. Maybe it's all the injuries and deep playoff runs aging him beyond his 30 years.

[JasonEvans]

Draymond's stat line:
2 points
15 assists
6 boards
6 steals
7 turnovers
5 personal fouls

It's tough to pinpoint why his shooting fell off so much from the Golden State golden age of 6 years ago when he was near 40% on 3s. His foul shooting has improved over time. Maybe it's all the injuries and deep playoff runs aging him beyond his 30 years.

Dray's 4 year, $100 mil extension just kicked in this season. So, they are paying him $22.2 million, $24 million, $25.8 million and $27.6 million over the next 4 seasons. Dray really needs to go back to being a legit scoring threat for Golden State to be competitive again. Amazingly, Draymond is the 4th highest paid player on that team (the Wiggins contract is just sooooo awful).

...And that is how a team can be $63 million over the cap and looking at a Luxury Tax bill of almost $140 million this season alone. Wow!

[Duke79UNLV77]

Draymond's stat line:
2 points
15 assists
6 boards
6 steals
7 turnovers
5 personal fouls

It's tough to pinpoint why his shooting fell off so much from the Golden State golden age of 6 years ago when he was near 40% on 3s. His foul shooting has improved over time. Maybe it's all the injuries and deep playoff runs aging him beyond his 30 years.

Draymond has never been a good shooter. He had one year when he hit 38% from 3, but it is very much an outlier, and he's a 31% 3-point shooter and just 8.8 ppg for his career, even though he never has had to take anything but wide open, let me stop and read the newspaper first 3's while playing with Curry et al. Didn't Curry hit 110 straight of those in a clip this year? I still think he's been wildly overrated, as his peers have voted him before. I think last year showed what your team will look like if Green is a primary player, in contention for the #1 overall pick. He is a good fit as a role player when playing with 3 Hall of Famers, including 2 very high level HOFers, but I don't think he'd ever have been close to an All-Star game as a feature attraction on a team.

[Billy Dat]

Draymond has never been a good shooter. He had one year when he hit 38% from 3, but it is very much an outlier, and he's a 31% 3-point shooter and just 8.8 ppg for his career, even though he never has had to take anything but wide open, let me stop and read the newspaper first 3's while playing with Curry et al. Didn't Curry hit 110 straight of those in a clip this year? I still think he's been wildly overrated, as his peers have voted him before. I think last year showed what your team will look like if Green is a primary player, in contention for the #1 overall pick. He is a good fit as a role player when playing with 3 Hall of Famers, including 2 very high level HOFers, but I don't think he'd ever have been close to an All-Star game as a feature attraction on a team.

His value has always been focused on the defensive side of the ball making the NBA All Defensive team nearly every year of his career, including once being named DPOY. I think his leadership is also prized as far as being a player who holds others on the team accountable, but we also know that his fire and temper can elude his control and backfire on him.

[Duke79UNLV77]

His value has always been focused on the defensive side of the ball making the NBA All Defensive team nearly every year of his career, including once being named DPOY. I think his leadership is also prized as far as being a player who holds others on the team accountable, but we also know that his fire and temper can elude his control and backfire on him.

He's a very good defender, but I think he's somewhat overrated on that end, too. Klay was better at slowing Kyrie, and Durant was better at slowing Lebron. Green is sort of like Battier (who finished runner-up as DPOY once) but a significantly better passer, much worse shooter, and much more cray-cray. That makes him very useful on a juggernaut of a team but far from a true star capable of carrying a decent team.

[bundabergdevil]

Luka recorded another triple double and should be tied for 12th place all time.

[JasonEvans]

The Pistons have decided they want to pay Blake Griffin $73.4 million dollars over this season and next to not play basketball for them. They have bought out his contract and made him a free agent.

Someone is gonna sign him for the vet minimum and get a valuable front court reserve.

[yancem]

The Pistons have decided they want to pay Blake Griffin $73.4 million dollars over this season and next to not play basketball for them. They have bought out his contract and made him a free agent.

Someone is gonna sign him for the vet minimum and get a valuable front court reserve.

I get that he is no longer the player he once was and that he is owed a ton of money but this seems like a lot of money thrown down the drain. I assume that by waiving him his salary is removed from cap considerations but that's still $73M out of pocket. Do they really think that they will be able to lure a top-notch free agent to fill the void? Even if they can, that's like paying him double. I think they should have just sucked up the bottom-dwelling status for a second year and concentrated on figuring out how to get some additional picks.

How does the whole trades involving cash thing work? Could they have traded him to a contender for a draft pick and say $50M? You never hear of cash exchanges that high but seems better than paying him to play for someone else. At least you get an asset out of it.

[JasonEvans]

I get that he is no longer the player he once was and that he is owed a ton of money but this seems like a lot of money thrown down the drain. I assume that by waiving him his salary is removed from cap considerations but that's still $73M out of pocket. Do they really think that they will be able to lure a top-notch free agent to fill the void? Even if they can, that's like paying him double. I think they should have just sucked up the bottom-dwelling status for a second year and concentrated on figuring out how to get some additional picks.

How does the whole trades involving cash thing work? Could they have traded him to a contender for a draft pick and say $50M? You never hear of cash exchanges that high but seems better than paying him to play for someone else. At least you get an asset out of it.

There are limits on how much cash a team can use to buy picks (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q97) or players from other teams. This season, the annual cap is $5.617 million and teams don't tend to use all that cash in one deal. So it would not be possible to sell Blake to another team for $50 mil or more.

The reason for buying him out is generally to clear cap space for your team and also clear a roster spot. It is possible, even likely, that the Pistons reached some kind of agreement with Blake to pay him less than the $73 mil they owe him. About $37 mil of that is salary for this season, and they likely paid close to all of that. But I would not be at all surprised to hear they are paying him less than half of what they owe him for next year.

Plus, Blake wants to play and likely wants to play for a real contender. He may have given up $20 mil or so in guaranteed salary but getting to pick his team and go for a ring, something he has never gotten (he's never even made a conference finals), is likely really important to him. Blake has already earned over $200 mil in his career (and a lot more in endorsements). Forgoing $20 mil to get into a better situation for the final several years of his career is probably well worth it in his mind.

[Steven43]

Do we have a separate general NBA thread? If I had been able to find it I would have posted there.

Anyway, the Denver Nuggets are no longer a threat to win the Western Conference (nor the NBA championship, obviously) as Jamal Murray tore an ACL last night. Devastating blow for he and his team.

I was really looking forward to seeing what the Nuggets could do in the playoffs. 😞

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Do we have a separate general NBA thread? If I had been able to find it I would have posted there.

Anyway, the Denver Nuggets are no longer a threat to win the Western Conference (nor the NBA championship, obviously) as Jamal Murray tore an ACL last night. Devastating blow for he and his team.

I was really looking forward to seeing what the Nuggets could do in the playoffs. 😞

That's too bad. They are my favorite NBA team without a Blue Devil.

[Steven43]

That's too bad. They are my favorite NBA team without a Blue Devil.
Same here. I really like them and I thought they had a legitimate chance to win the title this year.

This is a sad day for fans of the NBA.

[JasonEvans]

Denver had an all-star level PG (Murray), wing (Porter Jr.), and center (Jokic). Losing Murray is huge. They probably run the offense even more through Jokic now. I would not say they are dead in the water in terms of their chances but they will need someone else to step up.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Denver had an all-star level PG (Murray), wing (Porter Jr.), and center (Jokic). Losing Murray is huge. They probably run the offense even more through Jokic now. I would not say they are dead in the water in terms of their chances but they will need someone else to step up.

They traded the one guard who could step up (Gary Harris) to Orlando for Aaron Gordon. It was a great signing at the time because Gordon complements Michael Porter really well.

Now? Well, their backcourt is highly underwhelming...

[Truth&Justise]

Do we have a separate general NBA thread? If I had been able to find it I would have posted there.

Anyway, the Denver Nuggets are no longer a threat to win the Western Conference (nor the NBA championship, obviously) as Jamal Murray tore an ACL last night. Devastating blow for he and his team.

I was really looking forward to seeing what the Nuggets could do in the playoffs. 😞


They traded the one guard who could step up (Gary Harris) to Orlando for Aaron Gordon. It was a great signing at the time because Gordon complements Michael Porter really well.

Now? Well, their backcourt is highly underwhelming...

Reports are emerging that the Nuggets are in serious discussions to sign free agent Austin Rivers. He's not the caliber of player Murray has been, but for a playoff team Rivers is vastly superior to anyone else available on the buyout market.

Does that mean this discussion can get moved back to the Dukies in the NBA thread?? :p

[Billy Dat]

Great general NBA story.

ARod is part of a group that looks like they will buy the Minnesota TWolves.

Anthony Edwards is the rookie #1 pick of the TWolves.

He was asked, during a recent post-game interview, how he felt about ARod potentially being his new boss.

Edwards said he didn't know who ARod was. When told that he was a retired baseball great, he said he was never really into baseball.

ARod good naturedly found the interview on IG, quoted it and tagged Edwards and said, "Hi Anthony, I'm Alex"

Edwards' all time classic GenZ-infused reply, "what's good my guy"

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mvp-rankings-chris-paul-enters-conversation-and-joel-embiid-is-back-on-nikola-jokics-heels/

[Truth&Justise]

LaMarcus Aldridge has announced his retirement, effective immediately, due to an irregular heart rhythm (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1382708080262193155).

He was a 7-time all star and 5-time All-NBA. Recently joined the Nets as a buyout veteran (along with Blake Griffin), but played just five games for them. He finishes his 15-year career just 49 points shy of 20k.

[Billy Dat]

LaMarcus Aldridge has announced his retirement, effective immediately, due to an irregular heart rhythm (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1382708080262193155).

He was a 7-time all star and 5-time All-NBA. Recently joined the Nets as a buyout veteran (along with Blake Griffin), but played just five games for them. He finishes his 15-year career just 49 points shy of 20k.

Wow - big news. Basketball Reference has him at only 50% chance of making the Hall of Fame (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html). The $200MM in NBA salary should help assuage any angst. He had a heck of a career. It was a pleasure to watch JJ and the Devils bury his Longhorns at the Old Brendan Byrne Arena in early winter 2005 with Heisman Trophy finalist Vince Young in the house (and in town for the ceremony).

[Duke79UNLV77]

Great general NBA story.

ARod is part of a group that looks like they will buy the Minnesota TWolves.

Anthony Edwards is the rookie #1 pick of the TWolves.

He was asked, during a recent post-game interview, how he felt about ARod potentially being his new boss.

Edwards said he didn't know who ARod was. When told that he was a retired baseball great, he said he was never really into baseball.

ARod good naturedly found the interview on IG, quoted it and tagged Edwards and said, "Hi Anthony, I'm Alex"

Edwards' all time classic GenZ-infused reply, "what's good my guy"

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mvp-rankings-chris-paul-enters-conversation-and-joel-embiid-is-back-on-nikola-jokics-heels/

Maybe, someone needed to tell Edwards that ARod is JLo's boyfriend.

[Truth&Justise]

Maybe, someone needed to tell Edwards that ARod WAS JLo's boyfriend.

Corrected it for you--they've broken off their engagement and are no longer together (https://people.com/music/jennifer-lopez-and-alex-rodriguez-end-engagement-officially/).

[MartyClark]

Corrected it for you--they've broken off their engagement and are no longer together (https://people.com/music/jennifer-lopez-and-alex-rodriguez-end-engagement-officially/).

Went to the Duke vs. Miami game a few years ago in Coral Gable. A Rod and J Lo were at the game. When announced, they were roundly booed by the crowd. I was surprised and kind of happy at this.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Went to the Duke vs. Miami game a few years ago in Coral Gable. A Rod and J Lo were at the game. When announced, they were roundly booed by the crowd. I was surprised and kind of happy at this.

For the record, no one was booing JLo...

[MartyClark]

For the record, no one was booing JLo...

I'm not so sure of that. Kind of a blue collar crowd for glamorous Miami.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm not so sure of that. Kind of a blue collar crowd for glamorous Miami.

Miami nor Coral Gables nor Miami U strikes me as a blue collar crowd...

[brevity]

Went to the Duke vs. Miami game a few years ago in Coral Gable. A Rod and J Lo were at the game. When announced, they were roundly booed by the crowd. I was surprised and kind of happy at this.


For the record, no one was booing JLo...

12971

[Truth&Justise]

12971

For goodness sake, someone please spork Brevity! Brilliant

[elvis14]

For goodness sake, someone please spork Brevity! Brilliant

Done! Hilarious!

[Billy Dat]

So this Steph Curry kid is pretty good, eh? Next national TV game on Friday against Denver.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31293595/steph-curry-mvp-social-media-reacts-exploits-golden-state-warriors
"Stephen Curry just keeps outdoing himself. The Golden State Warriors superstar is on one of the most amazing runs in NBA history, with his 49-point effort Monday night in a 107-96 win over the Philadelphia 76ers, giving him 30 or more points in 11 straight games, a first for a player age 33 or older. Curry is averaging 39.9 points, 6.6 rebounds and 4.3 assists over 10 games in April. He went 10-for-17 from long range on Monday night and has hit 54 3-pointers over his past six games, with 10 or more in four of the last five games. Not coincidentally, the Warriors are on their best stretch of the season, winning five of six."

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

So this Steph Curry kid is pretty good, eh? Next national TV game on Friday against Denver.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31293595/steph-curry-mvp-social-media-reacts-exploits-golden-state-warriors
"Stephen Curry just keeps outdoing himself. The Golden State Warriors superstar is on one of the most amazing runs in NBA history, with his 49-point effort Monday night in a 107-96 win over the Philadelphia 76ers, giving him 30 or more points in 11 straight games, a first for a player age 33 or older. Curry is averaging 39.9 points, 6.6 rebounds and 4.3 assists over 10 games in April. He went 10-for-17 from long range on Monday night and has hit 54 3-pointers over his past six games, with 10 or more in four of the last five games. Not coincidentally, the Warriors are on their best stretch of the season, winning five of six."

My grandmother lived across the street from Davidson College campus and loved going to the games. She was a huge Curry fan. She passed away shortly after he was drafted, and I am so sorry she didn't get to see him do such amazing things. Makes me smile to see him defy all common sense on the basketball court.

[dukebluesincebirth]

So this Steph Curry kid is pretty good, eh? Next national TV game on Friday against Denver.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31293595/steph-curry-mvp-social-media-reacts-exploits-golden-state-warriors
"Stephen Curry just keeps outdoing himself. The Golden State Warriors superstar is on one of the most amazing runs in NBA history, with his 49-point effort Monday night in a 107-96 win over the Philadelphia 76ers, giving him 30 or more points in 11 straight games, a first for a player age 33 or older. Curry is averaging 39.9 points, 6.6 rebounds and 4.3 assists over 10 games in April. He went 10-for-17 from long range on Monday night and has hit 54 3-pointers over his past six games, with 10 or more in four of the last five games. Not coincidentally, the Warriors are on their best stretch of the season, winning five of six."

I don't even have any words for Steph Curry anymore. I just watch in absolute awe and amazement. Best shooter the game has ever seen.

[jv001]

I don't even have any words for Steph Curry anymore. I just watch in absolute awe and amazement. Best shooter the game has ever seen.

He and Seth must have some terrific genes. Dell was a good shooter in his day.

GoDuke!

[Billy Dat]

I have recently heard a few basketball writers reference https://dunksandthrees.com/ as a place they go for key stats. It's a subscription-based site but there is a free layer that I thought the quant-minded DBR NBA fans might be interested in.

Other sites/resources I hear referenced all the time include:

cleaningtheglass.com

https://fansided.com/nba/nylon-calculus/

https://www.secondspectrum.com/index.html

https://shop.synergysports.com/