Get Ready for the Coach K Hate

[Steven43]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30483429/coach-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-games-pandemic

It’s almost certainly going to be a chorus of “Coach K is just saying this because his team is not good this year.”

[UrinalCake]

I've already seen plenty of comments on social media along the lines of "looks like he's going to fake another back injury." But a few weeks from now, the same people who are criticizing K will likely be saying the same thing he's saying now.

[moonpie23]

the timing is terrible.....even if he's right...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I'm fine with K being on the cautious side of history.

[budwom]

I'm starting to think K might be angling for the job of NCAA hoop czar. This isn't the first time he's questioned having only an "oversight committee," noting that he isn't sure who leads college basketball.

[jv001]

I think back in August Coach K was speaking up about the NCAAT should be played. But he cautioned on how the regular season should take place. If I remember correctly, he stated that it would be a big mistake to cancel the Tournament because of the amount of money it generates for the NCAA. Last night I'm not sure Coach K was talking about cancelling the entire season because of the pandemic but more about working out a way that enough games can be played safely to ensure we have the Championship. I'm not a mind reader so I may be way off base here and if I am, I'm sorry. Maybe Jim Sumner can give us more information.

GoDuke!

[jimsumner]

I think back in August Coach K was speaking up about the NCAAT should be played. But he cautioned on how the regular season should take place. If I remember correctly, he stated that it would be a big mistake to cancel the Tournament because of the amount of money it generates for the NCAA. Last night I'm not sure Coach K was talking about cancelling the entire season because of the pandemic but more about working out a way that enough games can be played safely to ensure we have the Championship. I'm not a mind reader so I may be way off base here and if I am, I'm sorry. Maybe Jim Sumner can give us more information.

GoDuke!

You may recall that a few months ago K argued for an NCAA Tournament that would have included every team. That suggests some level of concern for completing something resembling a normal season.

K's comments came in response to a specific question. But it was obvious that he had been thinking about this. He was quoting vaccine stats off the top of his head.

Rick Pitino has suggested that the NCAA think in terms of May Madness for 2021. K came close to that line without actually touching it. But, IMO, anyone paying attention to this--and he's certainly been paying attention--has to wonder if college basketball can pull this off and should they even be trying.

But he definitely seemed to be placing a lot of trust in vaccinations. He's certainly the most influential coach in college hoops and I think he raised some legitimate concerns.

[CDu]

Yeah, I don't care what the outsiders think. He's right. It's ridiculous that we're playing games right now, and as such forcing kids to have to choose between seeing their families over the holidays or avoiding extra risk of exposure and hurting the team. The season should have probably waited until Spring, with no non-conference games and perhaps an abbreviated conference schedule, and the tournament should have been in May.

Playing through the peak of the virus and adding to the strain for these kids is pretty unfair.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, I don't care what the outsiders think. He's right. It's ridiculous that we're playing games right now, and as such forcing kids to have to choose between seeing their families over the holidays or avoiding extra risk of exposure and hurting the team. The season should have probably waited until Spring, with no non-conference games and perhaps an abbreviated conference schedule, and the tournament should have been in May.

Playing through the peak of the virus and adding to the strain for these kids is pretty unfair.

And it's gonna get a lot, lot, worse. TG spike is about to fit, followed by Xmas travelling, suppressed immune systems due to the weather, and excited anticipation for wide distribution of the vaccine in April/May.

Collectively, sports should be the last thing we're focused on.

[Tooold]

I think back in August Coach K was speaking up about the NCAAT should be played. But he cautioned on how the regular season should take place. If I remember correctly, he stated that it would be a big mistake to cancel the Tournament because of the amount of money it generates for the NCAA. Last night I'm not sure Coach K was talking about cancelling the entire season because of the pandemic but more about working out a way that enough games can be played safely to ensure we have the Championship. I'm not a mind reader so I may be way off base here and if I am, I'm sorry. Maybe Jim Sumner can give us more information.

GoDuke!

I interpreted his comments just as you did. He thinks December games are not as important as those later, so why risk everyone’s health in order to hold them (and keep players from going home for holidays). While the timing of his comments might not be so great, I think he is absolutely right. And back in August, most people probably thought things would be better now than they are. Frankly, I don’t understand why we continue to prioritize sports while so many areas are going back into lockdown, and so many sports teams continue to get infected (and contagious).

And I do love Duke sports. But I am having a hard time watching, or caring, these days.

[budwom]

K is getting a bunch of kudos, too, this from USA Today: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2020/12/09/college-basketball-while-covid-19-raging-makes-no-sense-coaches/3867975001/

[flyingdutchdevil]

I interpreted his comments just as you did. He thinks December games are not as important as those later, so why risk everyone’s health in order to hold them (and keep players from going home for holidays). While the timing of his comments might not be so great, I think he is absolutely right. And back in August, most people probably thought things would be better now than they are. Frankly, I don’t understand why we continue to prioritize sports while so many areas are going back into lockdown, and so many sports teams continue to get infected (and contagious).

And I do love Duke sports. But I am having a hard time watching, or caring, these days.

This sums it up well. Sports are a great stress reliever during the normal times and a great way to socialize (and drink. There I said it).

With COVID, it's an escape. It's something to do so I don't have to read the news and get super depressed.

[Billy Dat]

On today's Eye on College Basketball pod, Gary Parrish gives a good defense of K's comments:
https://www.cbssports.com/podcasts/eye-on-college-basketball/

Of course, you'll also have to deal with Matt Norlander's pointed criticisms of our team but, if you can't stand the heat and all that.

[jv001]

You may recall that a few months ago K argued for an NCAA Tournament that would have included every team. That suggests some level of concern for completing something resembling a normal season.

K's comments came in response to a specific question. But it was obvious that he had been thinking about this. He was quoting vaccine stats off the top of his head.

Rick Pitino has suggested that the NCAA think in terms of May Madness for 2021. K came close to that line without actually touching it. But, IMO, anyone paying attention to this--and he's certainly been paying attention--has to wonder if college basketball can pull this off and should they even be trying.

But he definitely seemed to be placing a lot of trust in vaccinations. He's certainly the most influential coach in college hoops and I think he raised some legitimate concerns.

I knew you had a better memory than me. Younger folks do. When I've watched sports on TV and the crawler tells us about a game that has been cancelled because of the virus, I wonder if it's worth it. Every sport that I follow has been affected with players and coaches being tested positive for the virus. Like many have said, it's going to get worse before it get's better. Hurry with the vaccine. It can't get here quick enough.

GoDuke!

[Tooold]

Just to pile on here, I know how I would feel if my son were on the team. Every player on a football or basketball team has a fairly good chance of getting CoVid over the next couple months if the season continues. Most that do get infected will have a mild case, but what if your son (or daughter) is the unlucky one that has a severe case. Or loses 15% of his/her lung capacity and as a result misses out on a potential pro career. It is just silly that we are subjecting these “student athletes” to this risk. I think that means we have officially removed the “student” from that term.

[Jeffrey]

There’s no way I would currently be coaching college players if I was 73. I’d feel very differently if I was 33 or even 43. I’m not going to believe some of his players will not find a way to spend time with their girlfriends.

During game timeouts, K’s players are not wearing masks, while huddled closely together with K, and breathing hard. It appears K is more cautious than most coaches and Covid has to be making it very difficult, to do his job, at the level he desires.

[freshmanjs]

Just to pile on here, I know how I would feel if my son were on the team. Every player on a football or basketball team has a fairly good chance of getting CoVid over the next couple months if the season continues. Most that do get infected will have a mild case, but what if your son (or daughter) is the unlucky one that has a severe case. Or loses 15% of his/her lung capacity and as a result misses out on a potential pro career. It is just silly that we are subjecting these “student athletes” to this risk. I think that means we have officially removed the “student” from that term.

I am on the side of not playing, but this rationale doesn't hold. These players are equally or potentially more likely to get COVID if they are not playing vs. if they are. The Duke players, for example, are completely isolated from the rest of the University and not allowed to leave. Playing is not subjecting to them to additional COVID risk.

[wsb3]

Rick Pitino has suggested that the NCAA think in terms of May Madness for 2021. K came close to that line without actually touching it. But, IMO, anyone paying attention to this--and he's certainly been paying attention--has to wonder if college basketball can pull this off and should they even be trying.

But he definitely seemed to be placing a lot of trust in vaccinations. He's certainly the most influential coach in college hoops and I think he raised some legitimate concerns.

I have said before that Pitino was right. Certainly not a fan of his. But to me that makes the most sense. Hopefully, with vaccines around the corner, we are in a better place with COVID then we are at the present time.

Also, I remember a UNC friend/fan questioning Coach K for not doing the post-game handshake last March. How does that look now?

Coach K ducking out because a bad season was coming shows the ignorance of the haters. For one, never make fun of someone's health issues. I didn't make fun of Dean Smith when he had mysterious nose bleeds and his doctor cut him back to eight cigarettes a day. There are Cheat fans that look bewildered when you mention that Saint Dean smoked. (Yeah, like a freight train)

And does anyone really think Coach K would not have got that 95 team to the tournament? He got the 96 team in and I don't think that it had nearly the talent the 95 team had.

[Jeffrey]

But he definitely seemed to be placing a lot of trust in vaccinations.

At ~ 95% effectiveness, heaven help the fool who isn’t placing a lot of trust in vaccinations.

[dukelifer]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30483429/coach-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-games-pandemic

It’s almost certainly going to be a chorus of “Coach K is just saying this because his team is not good this year.”

Well a lot of people have a strong vested interest in having the season played- sportscasters, sports reporters etc. It affects their personal bottom line. So of course folks are going to fight this notion. Coach K can stop coaching and be uber wealthy

[frb]

I get what K is saying but don't get why he would say it to the media. Sure seems like he doesn't want to be coaching in empty arenas. Just have to make the best of it. it's the hand we're playing right now. Really perplexing why he would say this out loud. Pretty obvious he doesn't want to be there. Seemed so sad about the situation.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Here's what I said in the Charleston Southern game is postponed thread:

Listening to Coach K's comment/statement in last night's presser, I'm expecting Duke's next game to be sometime in March or April after the vaccine has had time to work its magic. I doubt Saturday's football game as FSU will be played, and that Duke will put all athletics on pause for the next 2-4 months. Expect the ACC and NCAA to follow Duke's lead, as they did in March.

I told someone this morning that this would happen either before Saturday's games are played, or just after. Don't be surprised when it happens.

[weezie]

...Of course, you'll also have to deal with Matt Norlander's pointed criticisms of our team but, if you can't stand the heat and all that.

Pshaw. What else is new?

[Jeffrey]

Pretty obvious he doesn't want to be there. Seemed so sad about the situation.

Horrible situation when you’re 73, smart enough to fully understand the Covid risk, and too loyal to walk away from your team! I can only imagine what his wife has said to him.

[Troublemaker]

I've already seen plenty of comments on social media along the lines of "looks like he's going to fake another back injury."

I mean, we're going to play like a really good team at some point this season (I'll define that as top-10 in case anyone's wondering), and it might not even take that long, either.

The criticism is stupid, but it's even stupid re: the underlying assumption. I believe in this team.

[duke79]

And it's gonna get a lot, lot, worse. TG spike is about to fit, followed by Xmas travelling, suppressed immune systems due to the weather, and excited anticipation for wide distribution of the vaccine in April/May.

Collectively, sports should be the last thing we're focused on.

Amen!

Plus, another new study out about damage to the blood vessels of children (both asymptomatic and symptomatic) - very scary:

https://www.studyfinds.org/children-with-covid-blood-vessel-damage/

Still a LOT about the virus that doctors and scientists do not understand and what the long-term effects might be for even young people who become infected. IMHO, it is highly irresponsible and disgraceful for the "adults" - administrators, coaches, athletic directors, etc - involved in college sports to be "forcing" the season on the young athletes. Coach K is right here (again, IMO).

[chrishoke]

The main, simple point that K was making is that circumstances have dramatically changed in the past month or two and college basketball needs to re-evaluate what we are doing given - 1. we are being told that the next 6 weeks are going to be very very bad and games are being cancelled left and right - and 2. we now have an extremely effective vaccine that will be administered over the next weeks and months. His second point is that the NCAA isn't nimble enough to quickly and appropriately react to these changing circumstances. Who can argue with this.

[Jeffrey]

Who can argue with this.

Unfortunately, half of America.... just name the subject.

[chrishoke]

Unfortunately, half of America... just name the subject.

Yes, well there is that.

[SlapTheFloor]

Delaying the regular season was the right call from the beginning, but better late than never. And I don't care what random people on the internet are going to say. They don't matter. The people who make decisions know what Coach K is actually about.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Unfortunately, half of America... just name the subject.

One of the best lines I have ever heard:
"A person is smart. People are dumb."
K, Men in Black

I am not even a tiny bit interested in what people who have absolutely no stake in the game and no relationship with the coaches think or feel.

[Jeffrey]

One of the best lines I have ever heard:
"A person is smart. People are dumb."
K, Men in Black

That’s awesome... thanks.



I am not even a tiny bit interested in what people who have absolutely no stake in the game and no relationship with the coaches think or feel.

Is that a Jay Bilas quote?

[ClemmonsDevil]

That’s awesome... thanks.



Is that a Jay Bilas quote?

Ha! Dangit!

[MartyClark]

Coach K can handle the heat. I don't think he is much affected by criticism.

I think he's right but I wish he wouldn't have said it after a bad loss.

I'm torn. I'm thoroughly enjoying the diversion of college basketball and football games even with a disappointing Duke product this year

At the same time, I'm being really careful. I'm a few years younger than K but my wife and I are taking all reasonable precautions against this disease. I don't worry as much about the athletes, being young and fit, but I don't want them, their families or their coaches to get sick and have lasting consequences.

I think this will all play out poorly with the increase in infection and deaths, 3,000 deaths today.

[Bob Green]

I am not even a tiny bit interested in what people who have absolutely no stake in the game and no relationship with the coaches think or feel.

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena. *

* Theodore Roosevelt

[Bluedog]

The thing that is hilarious is when Coach K said his comments yesterday he even acknowledged the media/outsiders would make it a big deal and tried to pre-emptively address. He basically forecasted exactly what happened. Think he knows a thing or two about how his comments are misconstrued by the media? Not his first rodeo.

[dm9e24]

It seems back in March that they were predicting a 2nd wave during flu season, which is now actually a third wave. With 12-60,000 deaths from the flu during a typical year since 2010, it seemed to make sense that what is going on now was inevitable. So I don't understand why this wasn't taken into account when they decided to start the season in the first place...in mid November. And you would think that a man with K's clout would have had a stronger stand on this subject a month ago.

With what they were looking at 8 months ago and the certainty of an elevated flu season with a virus that spreads much easier, even having a basketball season should not have been an option. But we did anyway.

[Tripping William]

It seems back in March that they were predicting a 2nd wave during flu season, which is now actually a third wave. With 12-60,000 deaths from the flu during a typical year since 2010, it seemed to make sense that what is going on now was inevitable. So I don't understand why this wasn't taken into account when they decided to start the season in the first place...in mid November. And you would think that a man with K's clout would have had a stronger stand on this subject a month ago.

With what they were looking at 8 months ago and the certainty of an elevated flu season with a virus that spreads much easier, even having a basketball season should not have been an option. But we did anyway.

I $u$pect there i$ a rea$on or two for that.

[Pghdukie]

Dealing with the unknown is eerie.

[jimsumner]

After the Louisville (73) Duke (49) women's game I asked Kara Lawson about her comfort level in playing right now and deeper into winter.

Her response? "I don't think we should be playing right now."

Hard to be any more emphatic than that. Before anyone had a chance to follow up, Lawson got up and left.

We've all seen people who sort wanted to say something but realized it might be better to swallow their words and walk away. She had that look.

So, K isn't the only Duke head coach with significant reservations.

[mattyoung18]

I someone with a bad back.The jokesters would never make fun of someone with a back injury if they only knew.But haters going to hate coach Ks excellence.

[UrinalCake]

We’ve heard from Coach K and from Pitino and from Capel. We’ve heard from dozens of broadcasters and media folks. Do you know whose opinion we haven’t heard? The actual players. I would love to know what they think. If given the choice right now to not play and still maintain their scholarship, would they want to do that? Be a “regular” student with no basketball, or go back home and take virtual classes from their bedroom? Maybe some would, but I suspect most would rather play. Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take every precaution possible, or that we should treat players as expendable. I’m not saying that at all. But I do wish we could hear from the players themselves how they feel about this issue.

[uh_no]

We’ve heard from Coach K and from Pitino and from Capel. We’ve heard from dozens of broadcasters and media folks. Do you know whose opinion we haven’t heard? The actual players. I would love to know what they think. If given the choice right now to not play and still maintain their scholarship, would they want to do that? Be a “regular” student with no basketball, or go back home and take virtual classes from their bedroom? Maybe some would, but I suspect most would rather play. Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take every precaution possible, or that we should treat players as expendable. I’m not saying that at all. But I do wish we could hear from the players themselves how they feel about this issue.

most players would play through concussions as well, but we decided as a society that's not really acceptable.

I'm not sitting on one side or the other, just pointing out that what the players want to do is not always the most important consideration.

[Bluedog]

We’ve heard from Coach K and from Pitino and from Capel. We’ve heard from dozens of broadcasters and media folks. Do you know whose opinion we haven’t heard? The actual players. I would love to know what they think. If given the choice right now to not play and still maintain their scholarship, would they want to do that? Be a “regular” student with no basketball, or go back home and take virtual classes from their bedroom? Maybe some would, but I suspect most would rather play. Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take every precaution possible, or that we should treat players as expendable. I’m not saying that at all. But I do wish we could hear from the players themselves how they feel about this issue.

They've actually already been offered that. They can choose to not play, retain their scholarship, and also get an extra year of eligibility (well, all winter athletes are getting an extra year of eligibility). There have been some B1G football players opt out this season I know.

[wsb3]

The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena. *

* Theodore Roosevelt

One of my favorites, Bob. I use to have the entire quote on the wall in my office.

[budwom]

Delaying the regular season was the right call from the beginning, but better late than never. And I don't care what random people on the internet are going to say. They don't matter. The people who make decisions know what Coach K is actually about.

Indeed. It was a bad decision to start the season, and it's a mess trying to continue it/

[wsb3]

When Dickie V starts to make sense to me... :)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2020/12/09/college-basketball-while-covid-19-raging-makes-no-sense-coaches/3867975001/

[Tripping William]

When Dickie V starts to make sense to me... :)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2020/12/09/college-basketball-while-covid-19-raging-makes-no-sense-coaches/3867975001/

And Christine Brennan.

[Phredd3]

They've actually already been offered that. They can choose to not play, retain their scholarship, and also get an extra year of eligibility (well, all winter athletes are getting an extra year of eligibility). There have been some B1G football players opt out this season I know.

Coach K builds his entire culture such that it becomes almost impossible (or at least very, very difficult) for a single player to opt out. They live, eat, entertain themselves, and play basketball as a team. If one person goes against that, it would be a betrayal of sorts. It's why Zion wouldn't even consider sitting out the rest of the season after his shoe incident.

And it is not unique to Coach K. Most sports teams have this essential ethos, especially on smaller teams like basketball. Is it possible for one player to opt out? Sure, just like it is possible for one juror to prevent a conviction or acquittal. But it takes a lot of courage to swim against the tide.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Coach K builds his entire culture such that it becomes almost impossible (or at least very, very difficult) for a single player to opt out. They live, eat, entertain themselves, and play basketball as a team. If one person goes against that, it would be a betrayal of sorts. It's why Zion wouldn't even consider sitting out the rest of the season after his shoe incident.

And it is not unique to Coach K. Most sports teams have this essential ethos, especially on smaller teams like basketball. Is it possible for one player to opt out? Sure, just like it is possible for one juror to prevent a conviction or acquittal. But it takes a lot of courage to swim against the tide.

Andre Dawkins opted out a year for mental health reasons to deal with the loss of his sister and received full support. I think probably all of the players want to play, and Bilas's analogy to not letting players choose to continue playing outside in a lightning storm may fit.

[johnb]

Since March, we’ve known, for certain, that playing contact sports is about a few things, but very little is about the welfare of the players.

I guess we could say it’s for the athletes in non-revenue sports. Oops. The first whiff of pandemic led to mass elimination of non-revenue sports.

I guess the mental health of athletes might be improved, but what exactly is the psychological message when Duke players are breathing and snorting and banging into a bunch of strangers for a couple of hours while their classmates are depicted in cutouts?

I guess it’s good for the adults whose salary depends on the game, but it’s painful to watch our coach in his 70’s in a mediocre mask being exposed to a whole bunch of unmasked humans who are raining spit on him all night, and presumably all week. Sure, Duke has a low rate of infection, but does Illinois? Over the summer, we held Notre Dame up as a likely paragon of COVID virtue, and that school—from its president on down—has proven to be an international embarrassment.

I beat this drum every once in a while, but my pace has become desultory. Truly. How can people watch the nightly news and think it’s a great idea to play these games? How can you watch overflowing icu’s and burgeoning death rates
and sobbing physicians from all around the country, and casually toss our gladiators into the arena? I’m not even remotely amused by the cavalier, “It’s their choice. It’s a free country. America’s business is business. etc.” Since when do we leave public policy decisions to 19 year olds? How does freedom factor in when most of us have hunkered down for 9 months while a selfish minority of yahoos are ravaging the country with reckless behavior? How is it good business to kill all the customers?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Since March, we’ve known, for certain, that playing contact sports is about a few things, but very little is about the welfare of the players.

I guess we could say it’s for the athletes in non-revenue sports. Oops. The first whiff of pandemic led to mass elimination of non-revenue sports.

I guess the mental health of athletes might be improved, but what exactly is the psychological message when Duke players are breathing and snorting and banging into a bunch of strangers for a couple of hours while their classmates are depicted in cutouts?

I guess it’s good for the adults whose salary depends on the game, but it’s painful to watch our coach in his 70’s in a mediocre mask being exposed to a whole bunch of unmasked humans who are raining spit on him all night, and presumably all week. Sure, Duke has a low rate of infection, but does Illinois? Over the summer, we held Notre Dame up as a likely paragon of COVID virtue, and that school—from its president on down—has proven to be an international embarrassment.

I beat this drum every once in a while, but my pace has become desultory. Truly. How can people watch the nightly news and think it’s a great idea to play these games? How can you watch overflowing icu’s and burgeoning death rates
and sobbing physicians from all around the country, and casually toss our gladiators into the arena? I’m not even remotely amused by the cavalier, “It’s their choice. It’s a free country. America’s business is business. etc.” Since when do we leave public policy decisions to 19 year olds? How does freedom factor in when most of us have hunkered down for 9 months while a selfish minority of yahoos are ravaging the country with reckless behavior? How is it good business to kill all the customers?

Sadly, because the target audience (18-65) isn't as much at risk compared to the population primarily hospitalized and dying of COVID (80% of deaths are 65+).

[Bluedog]

Coach K builds his entire culture such that it becomes almost impossible (or at least very, very difficult) for a single player to opt out. They live, eat, entertain themselves, and play basketball as a team. If one person goes against that, it would be a betrayal of sorts. It's why Zion wouldn't even consider sitting out the rest of the season after his shoe incident.

And it is not unique to Coach K. Most sports teams have this essential ethos, especially on smaller teams like basketball. Is it possible for one player to opt out? Sure, just like it is possible for one juror to prevent a conviction or acquittal. But it takes a lot of courage to swim against the tide.

Yes, I agree. There is a lot of pressure to play in this situation. Was merely giving the information that theoretically the "choice" is there and schools/NCAA have been flexible on the rules, but I agree that it takes more "courage" to really stand out in this way. There is a lot of peer pressure to continue on and many players would think a move like that is "selfish."

[MChambers]

Since March, we’ve known, for certain, that playing contact sports is about a few things, but very little is about the welfare of the players.

I guess we could say it’s for the athletes in non-revenue sports. Oops. The first whiff of pandemic led to mass elimination of non-revenue sports.

I guess the mental health of athletes might be improved, but what exactly is the psychological message when Duke players are breathing and snorting and banging into a bunch of strangers for a couple of hours while their classmates are depicted in cutouts?

I guess it’s good for the adults whose salary depends on the game, but it’s painful to watch our coach in his 70’s in a mediocre mask being exposed to a whole bunch of unmasked humans who are raining spit on him all night, and presumably all week. Sure, Duke has a low rate of infection, but does Illinois? Over the summer, we held Notre Dame up as a likely paragon of COVID virtue, and that school—from its president on down—has proven to be an international embarrassment.

I beat this drum every once in a while, but my pace has become desultory. Truly. How can people watch the nightly news and think it’s a great idea to play these games? How can you watch overflowing icu’s and burgeoning death rates
and sobbing physicians from all around the country, and casually toss our gladiators into the arena? I’m not even remotely amused by the cavalier, “It’s their choice. It’s a free country. America’s business is business. etc.” Since when do we leave public policy decisions to 19 year olds? How does freedom factor in when most of us have hunkered down for 9 months while a selfish minority of yahoos are ravaging the country with reckless behavior? How is it good business to kill all the customers?

Boy, do I agree with your points! I have felt uneasy about the opening of the college basketball season from the start, and wondered whether I should even watch the games. At this point, with the pandemic surging throughout the country, I don't see how playing right now makes any sense at all.

[Matches]

It wouldn’t bother me if they shut it down until they can have fans in attendance. College basketball in its present form does not work without fans. I love the sport, but let’s face it - the quality of play has steadily declined over the last 10-15 years. The games are slower than ever before. There are too many stoppages of play. The officiating is inconsistent at best, and poor at worst. UVA exists.

The thing that’s been sustaining the sport is the pageantry, the environment. Players play HARD even when they don’t play well. The rivalries are intense. The games matter to people, and they let you know it with their enthusiasm on the court and in the stands.

Take away the fans, and the whole thing is lifeless. There’s nothing left but the quality of play, which is increasingly poor. And that’s not even taking into account the icky feeling of watching people run around exposing themselves to a deadly virus.

[sagegrouse]

Since March, we’ve known, for certain, that playing contact sports is about a few things, but very little is about the welfare of the players.

I guess we could say it’s for the athletes in non-revenue sports. Oops. The first whiff of pandemic led to mass elimination of non-revenue sports.

I guess the mental health of athletes might be improved, but what exactly is the psychological message when Duke players are breathing and snorting and banging into a bunch of strangers for a couple of hours while their classmates are depicted in cutouts?

I guess it’s good for the adults whose salary depends on the game, but it’s painful to watch our coach in his 70’s in a mediocre mask being exposed to a whole bunch of unmasked humans who are raining spit on him all night, and presumably all week. Sure, Duke has a low rate of infection, but does Illinois? Over the summer, we held Notre Dame up as a likely paragon of COVID virtue, and that school—from its president on down—has proven to be an international embarrassment.

I beat this drum every once in a while, but my pace has become desultory. Truly. How can people watch the nightly news and think it’s a great idea to play these games? How can you watch overflowing icu’s and burgeoning death rates
and sobbing physicians from all around the country, and casually toss our gladiators into the arena? I’m not even remotely amused by the cavalier, “It’s their choice. It’s a free country. America’s business is business. etc.” Since when do we leave public policy decisions to 19 year olds? How does freedom factor in when most of us have hunkered down for 9 months while a selfish minority of yahoos are ravaging the country with reckless behavior? How is it good business to kill all the customers?


Sadly, because the target audience (18-65) isn't as much at risk compared to the population primarily hospitalized and dying of COVID (80% of deaths are 65+).

Can't do justice to these posts in just a few seconds, but the test being applied is "as compared to the rest of the student body." The judgment that athletes, under the protocols supposedly in place, are at no greater risk than other students, who may (at Duke) or may not (at a bunch of other places) be under strict protocls.

[Kfanarmy]

Andre Dawkins opted out a year for mental health reasons to deal with the loss of his sister and received full support. I think probably all of the players want to play, and Bilas's analogy to not letting players choose to continue playing outside in a lightning storm may fit.


Maybe we should start a list of dangers Jay Bilas thinks these young athletes should not be allowed to take and impose them? Just have to figure out where exactly the risk line is worth it and not worth it and publish it. I mean right now there is a significant chance that a D1 offensive lineman's knees will be so significantly affected that at age 60, he won't be able to walk. Should we allow that? Have you seen Bill Walton walk? Certainly that quality of life change has a much higher risk of happening than significant COVID illness in a college BBall player.

[stedge]

I'm all for punting the season. Never should have started. And K shouldn't care about wins or losses on his record. Offer forfeits, take all the losses onto the record, and keep the kids safe. That would be both best for all the kids (ours and others those we'd play) and shut up the idiots.

[FerryFor50]

Alabama's head coach has some thoughts...

https://twitter.com/CecilHurt/status/1337124098984587271?s=20

12014

:rolleyes:

[ClemmonsDevil]

Pretty brave to call out K. I was in the gym for the "double standard" game. It is fine to take a shot at the king like K did at Dean that night...provided you don't miss. K didn't.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Who had "Alabama Coach Oats" as first to say K is whining?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30491771/alabama-coach-nate-oats-asks-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-tied-losses

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Alabama's head coach has some thoughts...

https://twitter.com/CecilHurt/status/1337124098984587271?s=20

12014

:rolleyes:

Jinx

[MChambers]

Who had "Alabama Coach Oats" as first to say K is whining?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30491771/alabama-coach-nate-oats-asks-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-tied-losses

Who knew there was an “Alabama Coach Oats”?

[arnie]

Who knew there was an “Alabama Coach Oats”?

He is turning into a very good recruiter and bet Bama will be competing hard with Kentucky, Auburn, Tennessee b-ball programs while he’s coach. He’s also entitled to his opinion; though I wouldn’t have targeted K that way.

[Jeffrey]

I guess it’s good for the adults whose salary depends on the game, but it’s painful to watch our coach in his 70’s in a mediocre mask being exposed to a whole bunch of unmasked humans who are raining spit on him all night, and presumably all week. Sure, Duke has a low rate of infection, but does Illinois? Over the summer, we held Notre Dame up as a likely paragon of COVID virtue, and that school—from its president on down—has proven to be an international embarrassment.


Strongly agree....

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?45979-Get-Ready-for-the-Coach-K-Hate&p=1313820#post1313820

[MartyClark]

He is turning into a very good recruiter and bet Bama will be competing hard with Kentucky, Auburn, Tennessee b-ball programs while he’s coach. He’s also entitled to his opinion; though I wouldn’t have targeted K that way.

It was a jerk comment. I suspect K won't forget it. I'd like nothing more than for Duke to beat Bama in the tourney.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

It was a jerk comment. I suspect K won't forget it. I'd like nothing more than for Duke to beat Bama in the tourney.

Oats was a fairly prominent HS coach in the Detroit area until he got his first college job as an assistant to Bobby Hurley at Buffalo.

It is one thing for him to think such things. It is another thing to say them. I don't think that veteran coaches should get a pass just for time served. But in this case Oats was being a jerk for calling out Coach K. He can politely disagree and move on. But in this day and age, being edgy is often considered an asset so I'm sure there will be recruits who think it is great that he did this.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Oats was a fairly prominent HS coach in the Detroit area until he got his first college job as an assistant to Bobby Hurley at Buffalo.

It is one thing for him to think such things. It is another thing to say them. I don't think that veteran coaches should get a pass just for time served. But in this case Oats was being a jerk for calling out Coach K. He can politely disagree and move on. But in this day and age, being edgy is often considered an asset so I'm sure there will be recruits who think it is great that he did this.

I'm sure more people know his name today than did yesterday.

[BigZ]

K was one of the first to call for 2020 ncaa tournament to be canceled. That was win Duke had a good team with a chance to win it all. Although not the favorite but still a decent shot

[Matches]

I'm sure more people know his name today than did yesterday.

I had to google him.

His nearly two-minute answer is worth listening to in its entirety. The goofy shot at K is what it is - as the poet says, haters gonna you know. The rest of it, though, has a very strong subtext (or outright text) of I got COVID and I’m fine now so it’s not that bad and you just gotta live your life - which is not a good look at all while 3000 people a day are dying. There’s a good point buried in there about players’ mental health, the effects of isolation, etc., and I suspect K would agree with those points as well - but the presentation by this coach whose name I have already forgotten does not cast him in a good light.

[kako]

Who had "Alabama Coach Oats" as first to say K is whining?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30491771/alabama-coach-nate-oats-asks-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-tied-losses

Two thoughts:

1. Alabama being strongly a red state, I'm sure this plays well with his supporters.
2. Get Alabama on the non-conference schedule next year. Take no prisoners.

9F

[Troublemaker]

Who had "Alabama Coach Oats" as first to say K is whining?

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30491771/alabama-coach-nate-oats-asks-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-tied-losses

It takes 5 paragraphs for ESPN to mention that Coach K has been critical of the NCAA's decision-making re: safety for months (i.e. long before the two losses):

Krzyzewski has questioned the decisions by NCAA officials, including senior vice president of men's basketball Dan Gavitt, in recent months. He previously said the NCAA should be open to moving the tournament back, months after requesting an all-inclusive postseason with every team in the country invited. Overall, his message has centered on criticism of the leadership governing the sport in a pandemic.


I suppose I should be satisfied that it was mentioned at all.



It was a jerk comment. I suspect K won't forget it. I'd like nothing more than for Duke to beat Bama in the tourney.

I mean, I've seen many fans echo what Oats is saying, and many coaches are probably thinking the same. (You could click on any youtube video of Coach K's remarks and see the snide responses in the comments [or not if you're sane :-]). That, of course, doesn't mean that Oats is blameless because he jumped to a popular conclusion and voiced it; he probably *is* being a jerk here. Still, it would've been nice if the media had provided the context that Coach K has been critical of the NCAA and concerned about player safety long before the Illinois and MSU spankings when reporting on his post-Illinois comments. He didn't just all of a sudden think this season was a bad idea after the 15-pt beatdown.

[DangerDevil]

Oats was a fairly prominent HS coach in the Detroit area until he got his first college job as an assistant to Bobby Hurley at Buffalo.

It is one thing for him to think such things. It is another thing to say them. I don't think that veteran coaches should get a pass just for time served. But in this case Oats was being a jerk for calling out Coach K. He can politely disagree and move on. But in this day and age, being edgy is often considered an asset so I'm sure there will be recruits who think it is great that he did this.

I was surprised by Oats’ shot and even more surprised that a former assistant to someone (Hurley) that I assume is still very close to Coach K would be the one to take it.

[wavedukefan70s]

Id be surprised if the season finishes to be honest.much less get a tournament. Oats well its already been said.

[cato]

I was surprised by Oats’ shot and even more surprised that a former assistant to someone (Hurley) that I assume is still very close to Coach K would be the one to take it.

Me too. It does show that he has no fear of being humiliated if Duke and Bama get matched up in the tourney some time before K retires.

[BlueDevilStop]

The hate Coach K is getting is ridiculous. But I expect nothing less when it comes to Duke and Coach K. People will criticize for quite literally anything.

[Im4howdy]

I was very impressed that Coach Hamilton kept his mask on throughout the game last night. He also wore pretty heavy duty gloves (though I noticed that he took one off at least once). I've noticed in the games I've watched so far that almost all coaches (including K, cough, cough) pull theirs down when talking face to face with their players and especially the refs. As someone mentioned up-post, during time-outs you have sweaty players who are breathing hard and probably adding "moisture" to the huddle.

On the other hand, why were so many people allowed in to the the FSU game last night, including cheerleaders and pep band? Maybe Florida's cover protocol is less strict? And why don't the NCAA mandate that refs have to wear masks throughout the game?...

[Wander]

A big LOL at the idea that the guy who is by far the best coach in the current sport and at absolute worst the second-best coach in the history of the sport is being motivated by his team being a 6 seed instead of a 2 seed this year or whatever. I could maybe see being skeptical of the motivation of a coach who is on the hot seat wanting to the season to be canceled, but come on.

If I sat someone down who knew zero about basketball and had them listen to Coach K's comments on COVID and basketball, Seth Greenberg's comments on COVID and basketball, and the comments of Oates or Oats or Granola or whatever his name is, I bet they could easily figure out which one of the three is considered the best leader, manager, and coach in the sport.

[Bluedog]

I was very impressed that Coach Hamilton kept his mask on throughout the game last night. He also wore pretty heavy duty gloves (though I noticed that he took one off at least once). I've noticed in the games I've watched so far that almost all coaches (including K, cough, cough) pull theirs down when talking face to face with their players and especially the refs. As someone mentioned up-post, during time-outs you have sweaty players who are breathing hard and probably adding "moisture" to the huddle.

On the other hand, why were so many people allowed in to the the FSU game last night, including cheerleaders and pep band? Maybe Florida's cover protocol is less strict? And why don't the NCAA mandate that refs have to wear masks throughout the game?...

Yes, FL has instituted fewer restrictions and FSU has decided to allow certain things. I imagine if Duke was in FL, there'd be no difference but legally they COULD. (I'm not sure the NC regulations right now.) There's been widepsread variance in football stadiums across the country. There are state-by-state and school-by-school protocols, so it's all inconsistent. The school needs to be within the construct of the state/conference though, but can always pose more stringent measures if desired.

[Michael8247]

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30483429/coach-mike-krzyzewski-questions-playing-games-pandemic

It’s almost certainly going to be a chorus of “Coach K is just saying this because his team is not good this year.”

Nate Oats has 10% of the wins Coach K. Plain and simple a loud mouth seeking attention. There isn’t another coach in the game who has earned more respect from his players. The thing that bothers me about Oats is he plants his attack with a reporter then talks about two losses as if that alone would cause Coach to want to suspend. Coach doesn’t need those 2 wins. Oats needs 1000.

[kako]

The hate Coach K is getting is ridiculous. But I expect nothing less when it comes to Duke and Coach K. People will criticize for quite literally anything.

It comes with the territory. When you are dominant, everybody wants to take you down for any reason. K could cure solve world hunger, cure COVID and win 3 Olympic gold medals for the USA :) and people would still dump on him. Duke is 2-2 and the NCAAMB world gloating. If Duke didn't matter, they wouldn't care. WWLD? (What Would Laettner Do?) I think he would revel in the hate, so that's the way I take it. As long as they hate Duke, the team is still doing well. Does anybody hate UCLA men's hoops anymore (except maybe SC)? Probably not. There's a reason for that.

9F

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The hate Coach K is getting is ridiculous. But I expect nothing less when it comes to Duke and Coach K. People will criticize for quite literally anything.

If you go to a neutral social media site, most folks actually seem to back K. Of course blowhards from certain schools won't, but this is in no way tarnishing L's rep.

Even some Kentucky and UNC fans seem to be begrudgingly admitting that K is in the right on this.

[DukieTiger]

A big LOL at the idea that the guy who is by far the best coach in the current sport and at absolute worst the second-best coach in the history of the sport is being motivated by his team being a 6 seed instead of a 2 seed this year or whatever. I could maybe see being skeptical of the motivation of a coach who is on the hot seat wanting to the season to be canceled, but come on.

If I sat someone down who knew zero about basketball and had them listen to Coach K's comments on COVID and basketball, Seth Greenberg's comments on COVID and basketball, and the comments of Oates or Oats or Granola or whatever his name is, I bet they could easily figure out which one of the three is considered the best leader, manager, and coach in the sport.

A small quibble in that I don't think you can say that K is currently "by far" the best coach (though certainly no disagreement with the historical side obviously) based on recent results.

But the main point I wanted to make is that both K's greatness and his team's record are immaterial to the concerns K is raising, which is why it's silly to attack his comments on those grounds and why it was a cheap way for coach Oats to get some attention.

Moreso than a lack of respect for K as a competitor, Oats did not give respect to K's position of concern for his team and for others. It also does not fairly represent the idea that there can be a reasonable level of disagreement with K. I appreciate Brad Brownell's* response and slightly different perspective: https://twitter.com/MarcWYFFNews4/status/1336863165448073228

*And to be clear, I'm in no way suggesting that Brownell is a better coach or leader than K is ;)

[Troublemaker]

It comes with the territory. When you are dominant, everybody wants to take you down for any reason. K could cure solve world hunger, cure COVID and win 3 Olympic gold medals for the USA :) and people would still dump on him. Duke is 2-2 and the NCAAMB world gloating. If Duke didn't matter, they wouldn't care. WWLD? (What Would Laettner Do?) I think he would revel in the hate, so that's the way I take it. As long as they hate Duke, the team is still doing well. Does anybody hate UCLA men's hoops anymore (except maybe SC)? Probably not. There's a reason for that.

Yup. And Coach K pretty much predicted what would happen as he was making his comments.

I also theorize that Coach K secretly doesn't even care about all the attention he's receiving, good or bad. The takeaway from many parents of recruits will be: "Here's a coach that cares about his players' well-being."

Post relevant to my theory perhaps:


Is this really a big deal? The Elon and Charleston Southern games were unlikely to be rescheduled as there is simply no room in the schedule. All this really means is that the Garner Webb game will not be played. This feels like the headline (“Duke cancels entire remaining conference season!!!”) is made out to be more than it really is - one game being cancelled, which honestly had a high likelihood of being cancelled already.

[Steven43]

Of course blowhards from certain schools won't, but this is in no way tarnishing L's rep.

Hey man, changing K’s name to “L” won’t fool anyone, especially on DBR. 😉

[Duke79UNLV77]

Yep, K is so conniving that he made sure we got in our cupcake games against Mich State and Illinois to pad our record and then ducked juggernauts Charleston Southern, Gardner Webb, and Elon. Plus, he was cunning enough to send his young team home to spend some time with their families for the first time in 4 months so as not to ruin them with extra time in practice and games. The gall!

[Steven43]

If I sat someone down who knew zero about basketball and had them listen to Coach K's comments on COVID and basketball, Seth Greenberg's comments on COVID and basketball, and the comments of Oates or Oats or Granola or whatever his name is, I bet they could easily figure out which one of the three is considered the best leader, manager, and coach in the sport.

Wander, I don’t recall you having been a particularly big fan of Seth prior to this most recent comment. What did he do to win you over? 😊

[Steven43]

Yep, K is so conniving that he made sure we got in our cupcake games against Mich State and Illinois to pad our record and then ducked juggernauts Charleston Southern, Gardner Webb, and Elon. Plus, he was cunning enough to send his young team home to spend some time with their families for the first time in 4 months so as not to ruin them with extra time in practice and games. The gall!

I know, right?? Who are these numbskulls with such piss-poor analytic skills? It’s embarrassing.

[roywhite]

Two thoughts:

1. Alabama being strongly a red state, I'm sure this plays well with his supporters.
2. Get Alabama on the non-conference schedule next year. Take no prisoners.

9F

Please skip the gratuitous political comments.

[jv001]

It seems to me it would have been a good time for the team to have gotten better by playing those games. However, Coach K put the players and asst. coaches welfare above that. Some people don't have an idea of what's going in the world of sports or what's taking place outside of the world of sports. Those whiners need to get a life.

GoDuke!

[wavedukefan70s]

I think it was the right call. Let them breathe a little comeback reset.these are strange days .
Basketball could shutdown for all we know.
I truly believe we are not far from that scenario.
Coach cal was the onlyone to make sense that i have read.
Its his team let him run it.
Oates can go jump in a lake.

[weezie]

Surprised that Izzo rather weakly simpered his comment, considering he actually had the virus. Not surprised Cal made it more about Cal and his tough 16 hour days.

Who thinks Duke will likely see 'bama during the NCAAs, if they are even held?

[mattyoung18]

Duke vs Bama in the NCAAS for sure.The committee will be all over this match-up.

[freshmanjs]

Duke vs Bama in the NCAAS for sure.The committee will be all over this match-up.

They don't set up story line matchups.

[CoachKville13]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2020/12/jim-boeheim-on-criticism-of-mike-krzyzewski-i-feel-bad-for-anybody-who-would-make-a-statement-like-that.html

Jim Boeheim coming to K's defense. He said the season should not be paused, and generally appeared to disagree with the substance of K's comments, but delivered a sharp rebuke of Nate Oats. Boeheim said: "It’s sad to see somebody say something like that. It speaks to somebody’s character."

[Bluedog]

Am I crazy because I didn't take Coach K's comments to definitively say that he thinks all basketball should be stopped. I heard him say it "feels weird" and there should be leadership at the top to consistently reassess things. One could perhaps surmise that to mean Coach K personally thinks basketball probably shouldn't be played, but I took it to mean that Coach K thinks stopping play isn't even a consideration right now and it should be, but that is not necessarily his conclusion. He just believes there should be analysis and redecision making based on the latest health protocols and figures rather than just blindly following the plan they had from the onset.

[ClemmonsDevil]

https://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/2020/12/alabama-coach-nate-oats-apologizes-to-mike-krzyzewski.html

Excellent job by Oats here. Fantastic stuff.

[MartyClark]

https://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/2020/12/alabama-coach-nate-oats-apologizes-to-mike-krzyzewski.html

Excellent job by Oats here. Fantastic stuff.

I agree. It was an articulate and seemingly sincere apology. Good for Coach Oats

[bundabergdevil]

That front page picture of Oats looks a little like Greg Paulus.

[Wander]

https://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/2020/12/alabama-coach-nate-oats-apologizes-to-mike-krzyzewski.html

Excellent job by Oats here. Fantastic stuff.

Do you think if Coach Oats hadn't lost the nonconference game to Clemson he'd still be saying that?

Kidding, kidding.

[dukelifer]

I agree. It was an articulate and seemingly sincere apology. Good for Coach Oats

The headline should have been- “Coach K cancels one game so his players can go home for Christmas.” That may have had a different reaction.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Do you think if Coach Oats hadn't lost the nonconference game to Clemson he'd still be saying that?

Kidding, kidding.

He had it coming.

[budwom]

Well, Coach K came out of that entire kerfuffle (festouche) in pretty nice shape...

[DangerDevil]

Alabama's head coach has some thoughts...

https://twitter.com/CecilHurt/status/1337124098984587271?s=20

12014

:rolleyes:

Unfortunate side note to the discussion about COVID and the basketball season.

An Alabama super fan has died of COVID after attending their game in Indy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/03/world/alabama-basketball-covid.html

Even more eerie the super fan’s full name was Cameron Luke Ratliff.

https://www.al.com/alabamabasketball/2021/04/what-an-incredible-life-he-led-fans-honor-luke-ratliff-with-memorial-at-coleman-coliseum.html