It's the economy (err.. the defense), stupid...

[Jumbo]

Everyone can say all they want about bench use, player development, suspensions, shot selection, etc. Duke lost this game on D, plain and simple. It didn't matter who was in, who wasn't in, that just wasn't Duke defense tonight. I believe State scored on every possession in overtime.

So, we can talk about everything else all we want. Duke played offense well enough to win tonight. The defense just wasn't there. I hope everyone realizes that.

[duke rules!]

My first post! We lost to a very good NC State team. Remember, they did beat the 'holes. We need alot of rest.

[dukelifer]

Any ideas as to what has changed? The D was very consistent all year and lately- it is porous. I agree- we lost because we could not get a stop when it counted. I am just not sure why we are having such trouble of late. That is concerning. I think the O is okay.

[rsvman]

Everyone can say all they want about bench use, player development, suspensions, shot selection, etc. Duke lost this game on D, plain and simple. It didn't matter who was in, who wasn't in, that just wasn't Duke defense tonight. I believe State scored on every possession in overtime.

So, we can talk about everything else all we want. Duke played offense well enough to win tonight. The defense just wasn't there. I hope everyone realizes that.
Jumbo, I have just posted the exact same thing in two different threads. We couldn't get a stop, and we gave up way too many easy shots, and way too high a shooting percentage.

We need to go back to "dancing with the gal that brung us," if you will; back to those heady days in the early season when our defense was just plain stifling. The O has stepped up. If we could get the old D back, we would be tough to beat.

[imagepro]

you are right about Defense Jumbo, totally. At one point NCS had 49 points in the paint to our 26. Nearly double by my basic math skills. I love Marty, as you know, and am disgusted he hasn't played more. His play didn't cause us to win or lose, though many of us were impressed by him. We're just making our case.

But ultimately, it was as you noted, DEFENSE, or lack thereof which led to our demise.

[Fish80]

it looked like the effort was there. was it mental mistakes? missed assignments? we got in some foul trouble, and that had a big impact. but i can't figure out what happened to the defense. costner had a monster game, and he had a big game against us last time. just seemed like state was able to have their way inside and we couldn't stop it.

damn. damn. damn.

i hope i don't get banned for language.

damn.

[imagepro]

LOL--great post Fish!

[BlueDevilBaby]

Too many post points the last few games. Josh gets killed by the up and unders. I don't understand why we went away from the double down. It worked! Did Duke not build its 8 point lead when doing so? Nevertheless, NC State payled a great game. Atsur is a difference maker. Go anyone but UNC!

[Dukefan4Life]

dont forget turnovers! what did we have over 20 or something??? but i guess thats to be expected from such a young team...

[KandG]

Jumbo, I almost started a post on this very subject after the Carolina game. All year, we've struggled on offense (with a few exceptions for particular games or stretches where we put together a modest streak), but our defense was supposed to be what kept us in games. Early in the season, our defense was terrific.

Lately, it seems that opponents penetrate effortlessly and that we're a step slow on rotations. What have other teams figured out that is making us look so helpless, and can we adjust this late in the game?

I just checked: in our first 23 games, we gave up 40 points in a half only twice (G Tech and Clemson). We've given up 40 point halves in seven of the last nine games, including 40+point second halves to our last five opponents.

[Chard]

I think not enough bigs to stop NCSUs' bigs was the problem. They tore up Duke all night. Then Atsur started to heat up in the second half. Ug.

[Chicago 1995]

Our defense stunk.

Teams have figured out how to attack our switching. They either switch until they find a mismatch or can attack our PG off the dribble. It's been how we've been attacked since at least the FSU game.

We took a several questionable shots down the stretch, but a few more stops and those wouldn't have mattered.

[jipops]

Everyone can say all they want about bench use, player development, suspensions, shot selection, etc. Duke lost this game on D, plain and simple. It didn't matter who was in, who wasn't in, that just wasn't Duke defense tonight. I believe State scored on every possession in overtime.

So, we can talk about everything else all we want. Duke played offense well enough to win tonight. The defense just wasn't there. I hope everyone realizes that.

With about 2 minutes left in regulation, I believe State had shot something like 14-18 in the second half. Hard win with that type of D.

This was a team without focus tonight. And it takes a good degree of focus to defend the high screen and roll.

[tbyers11]

The biggest deficiency I saw on the defensive end was the lack of communication on the pick and roll. In the past, Duke's general defensive policy has been for the big men to hedge strongly on the man with the ball to allow the guard to get back to his man but not to switch the screen.
Tonight it seemed that Josh and Dave were switching on every ball screen out front, but the problem was that Greg appeared to think that they were going to hedge strongly and not switch completely. I don't know what the coaching staff wanted the players to do but the problem was glaring on several occasions.

Thoughts anyone?

[imagepro]

JUMBO- you have received an infraction violatin from the membership. FOUR points for INSULTING EVERYONE! Points will be removed in 2021. ROFL

[imagepro]

Chard- you are right about Atsur. That kid is really a heck of a player. I like his style. Lets give him credit. No showboat, no hotdog. I'm going to miss watching him play.

[imagepro]

and we're gonna get it! WELCOME

[dukestheheat]

i agree with duke rules! that our guys need some rest.

they looked totally winded in this game and i thought that same thing to start out the game with josh and his two very quick fouls! i am not sure if we missed GH that much but we probably did; we just were out of synch...but...

i see Duke getting into the Sweet Sixteen this year, and probably going into the tourney as a six seed.

we'll see.

remember, we have got Captain K in the saddle Dukies and he's the best there is out there in the NCAA's, and Duke is noted as a tournament team. Don't the other teams know that this is OUR TIME OF YEAR!!??

dth.

[CMS2478]

This is not a knock on any of our players so don't take it that way. But what worries me going into the NCAA tourney is that we beat by a team that a) is not as good as us b) is very slow and c) doesn't really have any quick guards Sure hope we get this defense thing figured out.

[BCGroup]

In his post-game comments:
We have not played well defensively for two weeks. We have to play defense.

Full quotes here:
http://www.chathamjournal.com/weekly/sports/basketball/post-ncsu-vs-duke-quotes-70309.shtml
(linked on DBR's story also)

[Delaware]

Jumbo, I'd like to ask a question about the offensive sets of our opponents from the recent games that Duke lost vs. our sets and contrast to last couple of years of Duke sets.

Seems that UNC, MD and NCState all run similar but different screens in the lane for their guards and bigs down low. They run their bigs off of each other down low or their guards off their bigs down low to get men open in the actual paint area, more towards the front of the basket and closer in, making it much more difficult to play post defense. Contrast that with Duke's sets where we set screens with two guards on the wings for each other or a big man and a guard but out farther on the wing. Then when Duke enters the ball to post, we seem to get the ball to our big man further out, outside the paint and closer to the baseline, leaving a more limited amount of moves for the big. Easier for others to guard our bigs.

Contrast that also to the last few years where we were contstantly running JJ off of screens along the baseline and down low for him to get shots in the corner or if Shelden's man got caught, hedged or left him, we got him the ball very low in the block. I seem to remember we did a little of that with John earlier in the year, but less so later on this year. Should we be screening more for DeMarcus or Henderson off of low screens in the paint to free them for short mid range shots or dump downs?

Any thoughts? How can our defense defend this type of big on big screening better and should we be using it more in our sets? Seems to me with the second big we have in usually (McClure or Thomas), we do not have the same "size" as some other teams to run those sets effectively... am I right?

Sorry for the long post, multiple questions, etc. Some major ramblings, I'm sure.

[phaedrus]

anyone reminded of greece's dismantling of the u.s. this summer? it's a vulnerability in our pressure man-to-man that it can be beat by incessant pick-and-rolling.

[Spret42]

This Duke team doesn't do one the thing that all great Duke teams did and that is communicate defensively. Those great Shane Battier teams created, using communicative abilities, the illusion that nothing was available offensively for the opposition.

Anyone who knows basketball understands that because the offense has the ball they have virtue of being the initiator; the defense must react and therefore something is always available. The great Duke teams by communicating fooled other teams into forgeting that idea. (Offensively Duke's great teams never let themselves be fooled.)

You could watch teams play Duke and they would miss opportunities becauses positioning and communication made it seem as though the space to operate was completely constricted. All of a sudden teams offenses would stop mid possession and everyone would be standing around, it happened because they literally felt that Duke could stop whatever they tried. But in fact, there was always an option. No defense can remove everything.

This Duke team cannot create that illusion. NC State, last night, knew they could get the types of shots they wanted and Duke could not do enough to stop it. If A. was gone, they simply took B. This group doesn’t have the physical and mental abilities necessary to create illusion that B is gone as well.

That is why the pick and roll is so effective as a basketball play. When done correctly, there is always something available. A defensive player cannot be in two places at once. The best he can do is cut his angles to create the best illusion he can.