FB: NC State 31, Duke 20

[DU82]

Duke heads on the road again to face the Wolfpack in Carter-Finley Stadium for the first time since beating Russell Wilson eons ago.

State’s an early 4 point favorite. There will be ~ 4000 fans in the stadium for the first time for State this year.

(My starting the game thread worked last week - hoping this becomes a permanent gig!)

[chrishoke]

Go Devils! I was at that Russell Wilson game - probably the most fun I have ever had at an away game. I know I'm not alone in believing we should play State every year.

[Bob Green]

We must take care of the football as we will not win this game with a -4 turnover margin. The offense has looked good (minus the turnovers) for three straight halves. The streak needs to extend to five in Raleigh on Saturday.

[Devilwin]

Take care of the ball boys. Do that and we can win.

[peloton]

Take care of the ball boys. Do that and we can win.

I have no doubt of this at all and based on past games with them, this just might be a barn burner of a game. I'm already excited about this one - let's make it 2 in a row, Devils!

[PDDuke85]

I have no doubt of this at all and based on past games with them, this just might be a barn burner of a game. I'm already excited about this one - let's make it 2 in a row, Devils!

Looking at the defensive ammunition to throw at State, any news on the return of Mark Gilbert (foot), and Josh Blackwell (knee)?

[Bob Green]

Jim Sumner article on front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2020/10/12/21513390/david-cutcliffe-on-syracuse-and-nc-state-acc-football

I wondered about Damond Philyaw-Johnson’s absence against Syracuse. He is injured. Of course, no details provided.

[loran16]

Man the last two Duke-State games were really memorable. The last one was the Devon Edwards' double pick six + kickoff TD return game, which continued Duke's path to the ACC Coastal. The time before, Thad Lewis outdueled Russell Wilson in a shootout.

[awhom111]

Here are the TV channels carrying the game:
https://theacc.com/sports/2020/10/8/FB_RSN_DU_NCSU_20.aspx

I would not expect a blackout map to be available. Roughly speaking, if you are in the conference footprint, your options is your local RSN from the list above or the online service associated with it. Those outside the area will have those options as well as ESPN College Extra if your provider carries it and ESPN3 online as part of WatchESPN functionality.

[EvanMoreland]

Positive turnover margin and I think we can win this without a doubt.

[duke2x]

Here are the TV channels carrying the game:
https://theacc.com/sports/2020/10/8/FB_RSN_DU_NCSU_20.aspx

I would not expect a blackout map to be available. Roughly speaking, if you are in the conference footprint, your options is your local RSN from the list above or the online service associated with it. Those outside the area will have those options as well as ESPN College Extra if your provider carries it and ESPN3 online as part of WatchESPN functionality.

I can't wait until basketball season so I can drop Hulu. We won't fall this far down the pecking order. If you are really up a creek without a paddle, you can watch a condensed game on Youtube about 1 hour after the game to see the major plays of the game. (Sorry, runs up the middle for 1 yard or dropped passes are omitted.)

It makes me sad that I won't get to attend a Duke game @NCSU until 2032. I might be dead by then. :(

[hallcity]

It makes me sad that I won't get to attend a Duke game @NCSU until 2032. I might be dead by then. :(

I'm getting the feeling that this year's experiment in dispensing with divisions is popular. I'm hoping that the divisions will be permanently scrapped. Duke would play NCSU about two years out of three if there are no divisions. Of course, Clemson would also be on our schedule that often but that would have both positive and negative aspects.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Duke is always allowed to schedule State as an OOC opponent.

[budwom]

Duke is always allowed to schedule State as an OOC opponent.

Which can jeopardize our fragile bowl strategy, which is to generally (but not always, see last year) to have three cup cake-ish OOC opponents which, combined with three conference wins, gets us to a bowl.

[devilirium]

I'm getting the feeling that this year's experiment in dispensing with divisions is popular. I'm hoping that the divisions will be permanently scrapped. Duke would play NCSU about two years out of three if there are no divisions. Of course, Clemson would also be on our schedule that often but that would have both positive and negative aspects.

It would really put a premium on coaching and development--which I'm all for--and should accentuate recruiting. I suspect that we'll go back to a 9-3 model in the near future, but a year or two of this could bring some solid dividends. On Cut's answer regarding State...I dunno...in my mind, we could afford to be a bit selfish. My empathy for Miami, FSU, BC, etc in the schedule making process leads me to believe "And we should care about that for what reason?". The trade-off for Miami, BC, Cuse etc for entry into the ACC is that they're gonna be geographically isolated. That's just the way it is. Suck it up.

[budwom]

It would really put a premium on coaching and development--which I'm all for--and should accentuate recruiting. I suspect that we'll go back to a 9-3 model in the near future, but a year or two of this could bring some solid dividends. On Cut's answer regarding State...I dunno...in my mind, we could afford to be a bit selfish. My empathy for Miami, FSU, BC, etc in the schedule making process leads me to believe "And we should care about that for what reason?". The trade-off for Miami, BC, Cuse etc for entry into the ACC is that they're gonna be geographically isolated. That's just the way it is. Suck it up.

Money, of course, is a HUGE reason for having divisions, so you can have two division champs, then a playoff game...they won't be giving that up easily...

[Bob Green]

Tangelo and Durant on N.C. State:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2020/10/13/21513914/derrick-tangelo-and-mataeo-durant-on-nc-state-duke-football-acc-david-cutcliffe

Mataeo Durant says he and Deon Jackson are similar runners because they both have speed and power.

Side note not related to Jim’s front page article. Duke’s turnover margin is -11 or -2.20 per game. That has to improve and the improvement must start now.

[budwom]

Is this a fair time to bring up the fact that the production of some of our recent TV games has been simply horrible?...they show replays, thereby missing live action, and most annoyingly, the camera pans in too close, so when there are throws to the sideline, they simply miss the play. Really bad and seemingly not improving.

[devilirium]

Money, of course, is a HUGE reason for having divisions, so you can have two division champs, then a playoff game...they won't be giving that up easily...

No doubt.

[Bob Green]

Is this a fair time to bring up the fact that the production of some of our recent TV games has been simply horrible?...they show replays, thereby missing live action, and most annoyingly, the camera pans in too close, so when there are throws to the sideline, they simply miss the play. Really bad and seemingly not improving.

Yes. I agree it is annoying when the camera pans in too close on pass plays.

[AustinDevil]

Money, of course, is a HUGE reason for having divisions, so you can have two division champs, then a playoff game...they won't be giving that up easily...

Divisions are not required for a championship game to occur. For that matter, neither is the prior minimum of 12 teams (the Big XII Minus IV Plus II took care of that).

[budwom]

Divisions are not required for a championship game to occur. For that matter, neither is the prior minimum of 12 teams (the Big XII Minus IV Plus II took care of that).

Indeed...however I think a championship game makes more sense with a two division format...

[sagegrouse]

Money, of course, is a HUGE reason for having divisions, so you can have two division champs, then a playoff game...they won't be giving that up easily...

Well, the Big 12, since 2017, has had a playoff between its two top teams, despite having only ten teams. The ACC -- this season -- has 15 teams; other times, 14. The ACC won't be denied a conference championship playoff and will play one this year on some Saturday in December, Deo volente.

And, of course, Austin Deveil beat me to it.

[duke2x]

Divisions are not required for a championship game to occur. For that matter, neither is the prior minimum of 12 teams (the Big XII Minus IV Plus II took care of that).

My apologies for derailing the NCSU game thread by expressing my disappointment about watching this game on TV. It's only 7-10 minutes from my house.

I will offer one OT thought. Most ACC schools probably would be happier with a 3+5 or 4+4 format than divisions if we can do it. Most Big 10 and a few SEC schools probably feel the same way. I think divisions are probably toast in 2021 and beyond.

Doesn't NCSU play the same base defense as Syracuse?

We can win this game if touchdowns > turnovers. We can't be -4 or -5 in that department and win.

[AustinDevil]

My apologies for derailing the NCSU game thread by expressing my disappointment about watching this game on TV. It's only 7-10 minutes from my house.

I will offer one OT thought. Most ACC schools probably would be happier with a 3+5 or 4+4 format than divisions if we can do it. Most Big 10 and a few SEC schools probably feel the same way. I think divisions are probably toast in 2021 and beyond.

Doesn't NCSU play the same base defense as Syracuse?

We can win this game if touchdowns > turnovers. We can't be -4 or -5 in that department and win.

I agree with all of that. Regular games with NCSU, even with home games being less frequent than they were 15 years ago, are better than somehow feeling like we need to preserve home-and-home series forever with newcomers like Pitt.

[DU82]

My apologies for derailing the NCSU game thread by expressing my disappointment about watching this game on TV. It's only 7-10 minutes from my house.

I will offer one OT thought. Most ACC schools probably would be happier with a 3+5 or 4+4 format than divisions if we can do it. Most Big 10 and a few SEC schools probably feel the same way. I think divisions are probably toast in 2021 and beyond.

Doesn't NCSU play the same base defense as Syracuse?

We can win this game if touchdowns > turnovers. We can't be -4 or -5 in that department and win.

I'm with you. I waited 11 years to go back to Carter-Finley since the last game there, and I'm now actually closer to C-F than I am to WW. I'll miss being there (as I have been every game so far this year.)

Let's have the only turnovers State gets be from Pillsbury. We do that, we win the bake off, I mean game.

[awhom111]

Here are the TV channels carrying the game:
https://theacc.com/sports/2020/10/8/FB_RSN_DU_NCSU_20.aspx

I would not expect a blackout map to be available. Roughly speaking, if you are in the conference footprint, your options is your local RSN from the list above or the online service associated with it. Those outside the area will have those options as well as ESPN College Extra if your provider carries it and ESPN3 online as part of WatchESPN functionality.

We have been assigned DirecTV 791 on ESPN College Extra. If your provider carries that package and you are outside the conference footprint, the game will be on the fourth channel set up for those games. One thing that is always unclear until the event is whether that channel will carry the start of the game if Liberty-Syracuse runs into the timeslot.

[Bob Green]

Uniform: white helmet with black Iron D, white jersey, blue pants.

[PackMan97]

I predict the Pack wins by 71 points. I might be wrong...maybe it was 17 points. The vision is not clear.

[budwom]

I fear that our view may be clouded by how distinctly awful Syracuse is. Hope I'm wrong.

[devildeac]

Waiting for a fun, but worthless Bob Green prediction (;))...

[arnie]

I predict the Pack wins by 71 points. I might be wrong...maybe it was 17 points. The vision is not clear.

Never done a pie bet, but I’ll take Duke and 71 points.

[devildeac]

Never done a pie bet, but I’ll take Duke and 71 points.

I'm convinced even RJ199 wouldn't agree to *that* bet. ;)

[Bob Green]

Waiting for a fun, but worthless Bob Green prediction (;))...

Assuming Duke values the ball...

Duke 34, N.C. State 31

[PackMan97]

Never done a pie bet, but I’ll take Duke and 71 points.

I've never done one either, and my spidey sense is telling me this shouldn't be my first.

[devildeac]

Assuming Duke values the ball...

Duke 34, N.C. State 31

I see you're hedging, especially with my middle name, the first 3 letters in the first word of your post. :o

[chrishoke]

In honor of Thad Lewis, I predict Duke 41, NCS 37. Go Devils!

[killerleft]

In honor of Thad Lewis, I predict Duke 41, NCS 37. Go Devils!

Thad Lewis, as unbelievable as it sounds, is tougher than Patrick Davidson.

:)

[Devilwin]

State 35 Duke 24..sorry..Just not feeling it this week..

[devildeac]

PackMan 31
OzzieMan 17

We'll be playing on the road in front of 57,583 x .07 wildly enthusiastic fans (plus cut-outs) and we still haven't improved the TO problem/s.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

PackMan 31
OzzieMan 17

We'll be playing on the road in front of 57,583 x .07 wildly enthusiastic fans (plus cut-outs) and we still haven't improved the TO problem/s.
Bzzzz, wrong, ddbreath!
Duke 38
NC Stat 27

LGD GTHc!

[chrishoke]

Game Day Devils. Turn Bam Bam Knight into Pebbles.

[Bob Green]

Game Day Devils. Turn Bam Bam Knight into Pebbles.

For those who don’t remember, Zonovan Knight initially committed to Duke. Taiyon Palmer is another Wolfpack player who was a Duke commit.

[devildeac]

Bzzzz, wrong, ddbreath!
Duke 38
NC Stat 27

LGD GTHc!

I thought you might note my prediction...

;)

[devildeac]

For those who don’t remember, Zonovan Knight initially committed to Duke. Taiyon Palmer is another Wolfpack player who was a Duke commit.

The News and Observer mentioned Knight in their preview yesterday. I had forgotten about Palmer.

[Bob Green]

I had forgotten about Palmer.

I’ve got a long, mean memory. Just don’t ask me what I ate for lunch yesterday.

[Bob Green]

Keys to the game:

1. Turnover Margin - State +1, Duke -11. Blue Devils must not turn the ball over.
2. Establish the run - State gives up 159.3 rushing yards per game.
3. Red Zone - score touchdowns not field goals.

[chrishoke]

The News and Observer mentioned Knight in their preview yesterday. I had forgotten about Palmer.

Both were highly rated four star recruits. :mad:

[devildeac]

I’ve got a long, mean memory. Just don’t ask me what I ate for lunch yesterday.

Funny stuff, Bob. I have to hope now that I've never poured you a bad beer...

:o

[jafarr1]

Liberty is currently beating Syracuse 35-14 in the third quarter, so last week’s win apparently didn’t mean much for Duke.

Feels like NC State will take this one by a couple of td’s.

[killerleft]

Liberty is currently beating Syracuse 35-14 in the third quarter, so last week’s win apparently didn’t mean much for Duke.

Feels like NC State will take this one by a couple of td’s.

Saw that. Still:

Duke 34
Pack 28

Go Duke!

[peloton]

That's what I'm talking about!! Way to go Devils!

[peloton]

That waa absolutely beautiful.

[DU82]

awhom111 and I are lonely in Chat.

https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox

[-jk]

Sorry - late!

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

If it's running too fast for you, you can always check out the chat archive (https://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=ccarc) to catch up.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[devildeac]

Should be absolutely, positively be 14-0 now. :mad:

[arnie]

Should be absolutely, positively be 14-0 now. :mad:

No longer a QB whisperer

[devildeac]

No longer a QB whisperer

Coulda been a better pass, but, an all ACC TE has to catch that pass.

[arnie]

Coulda been a better pass, but, an all ACC TE has to catch that pass.

Actually referring to the horrific throw for interception. But yes, the open TD miss a joint responsibility

[devildeac]

Actually referring to the horrific throw for interception. But yes, the open TD miss a joint responsibility

Oh, yea, the INT was an awful decision.

[rsvman]

First game I haven't been able to find on my tv. Can anybody tell me what's up? What's the score?

[YmoBeThere]

First game I haven't been able to find on my tv. Can anybody tell me what's up? What's the score?

10-7 us. I’m able to stream via ESPN3.

[CameronBlue]

10-7 us. I’m able to stream via ESPN3.

Bobo with the type catch that can change a game. Incredible.

[peloton]

Bobo with the type catch that can change a game. Incredible.

Agreed...what a catch.

[YmoBeThere]

Bobo with the type catch that can change a game. Incredible.

Yes, and the line judge was trying to wave it off.

[YmoBeThere]

And this is just the type of drive we need to give the defense a break.

[peloton]

Our offense is in bobodrive! 😁

[jimsumner]

Run the freaking clock out. Geez

[Acymetric]

Got what we deserved with that blocked punt after some of the worst clock management I've ever seen on that offensive drive.

Edit: Amen Jim! Or if you're going to try to move the ball, start trying on first down instead of wasting a down running up the middle when you're running a 2 minute offense.

[75Crazie]

Somebody PLEASE explain to me why two pass plays were called on that possession. It beggars belief.

[OldPhiKap]

Somebody PLEASE explain to me why two pass plays were called on that possession. It beggars belief.

I can’t watch anymore. Unforgivable, unbelievable.

[dukelifer]

Got what we deserved with that blocked punt after some of the worst clock management I've ever seen on that offensive drive.

Edit: Amen Jim! Or if you're going to try to move the ball, start trying on first down instead of wasting a down running up the middle when you're running a 2 minute offense.

Horrific way to end the half. No excuse for what happened there.

[75Crazie]

I am among the biggest of the Cutcliffe apologists ... but I am so pissed at him right now I can't stand it.

[Acymetric]

Horrific way to end the half. No excuse for what happened there.

It was the worst of both worlds. Wasted a down, looking like we were just going to bleed out the clock instead of trying to get into position. Then instead of continuing to run out the clock we try to pick move the ball down the field on 2nd and 10. Either push the ball down the field or run out the clock, but don't start by running out the clock and then push the ball down the field!

[jimsumner]

And why does Duke still have two timeouts?

[Acymetric]

This game is only slightly less ugly than the Mud Bowl in 2007 (although I actually loved watching that game live, it was amazing).

[Sixthman]

Literally incompetent.

[johnb]

This game is only slightly less ugly than the Mud Bowl in 2007 (although I actually loved watching that game live, it was amazing).

I'm less critical of the playing mistakes on both sides as I am of the NC State coaches who apparently haven't figured out how to wear masks.

[YmoBeThere]

For all the sturm und drang of the last couple of minutes, we do go in the locker room with a 20-14 lead.

[Bob Green]

First game I haven't been able to find on my tv. Can anybody tell me what's up? What's the score?

Channel 577 on Verizon Fios in Chesapeake.

[jimsumner]

For all the sturm und drang of the last couple of minutes, we do go in the locker room with a 20-14 lead.

Duke probably should be up 24-7. And State gets the ball first. That opening drive will be huge.

[arnie]

For all the sturm und drang of the last couple of minutes, we do go in the locker room with a 20-14 lead.

Thanks to a ton of stupid penalties by the Pack. Course, local Pack fans will claim we paid the refs.

[peloton]

Duke probably should be up 24-7. And State gets the ball first. That opening drive will be huge.

If we can make a defensive stand on their first possession, yes... I'll feel a lot better about the potential outcome.

We should be up by more no doubt but it's a reoccurring theme...wasted opportunities.

[richardjackson199]

For all the sturm und drang of the last couple of minutes, we do go in the locker room with a 20-14 lead.

Yep, mistakes are part of the college football game. Nice response to drive 50 yards in 50 seconds to go up 20-14. Let's Go Duke!

[peloton]

Thanks to a ton of stupid penalties by the Pack. Course, local Pack fans will claim we paid the refs.

What...no respect for our friend PackMan97? 😏😉

[jimsumner]

That's the play you call on 1st down. Not fourth down.

[johnb]

Turn down a chip shot to go up by 9? Obviously, a td is better, but the 9 point lead puts the heat on.

[Sixthman]

That's the play you call on 1st down. Not fourth down.

I was literally about to post the same thing. How come we know this and the guy calling the plays doesn’t?!

[PDDuke85]

That's the play you call on 1st down. Not fourth down.

I’ll take that’s why I drink for 400 Alex

[jimsumner]

I was literally about to post the same thing. How come we know this and the guy calling the plays doesn’t?!

Because football coaches get all mano-a-mano in that situation.

[PDDuke85]

Because football coaches get all mano-a-mano in that situation.

But it’s not a calculus question, it’s Duke football

[jimsumner]

Two mediocre teams trying to give it away.

[Sixthman]

I’m ready to end the Chase Brice experiment. Please remind of these words when they turn out to be foolish.

[arnie]

But it’s not a calculus question, it’s Duke football

Yep, in that case Brice knew he was getting rushed and simply didn’t adjust. Our D will have to be superb for Duke win.

[Acymetric]

I’m ready to end the Chase Brice experiment. Please remind of these words when they turn out to be foolish.

The problem is we don't really have any better options on the roster (except hopefully for Luca Diamont, but as a freshman he may not be ready and they probably want to redshirt him regardless).

[jimsumner]

I’m ready to end the Chase Brice experiment. Please remind of these words when they turn out to be foolish.

He really has pocket-awareness-issues.

[heyman25]

Brice keeps making poor decisions. Yes his arm got hit, but he doesn't make plays fast enough.

[arnie]

Yep, in that case Brice knew he was getting rushed and simply didn’t adjust. Our D will have to be superb for Duke win.

Oh well😡

[Acymetric]

He really has pocket-awareness-issues.

Perhaps coincidentally, Daniel Jones also had pocket awareness issues (which has become a real issue for him in the NFL as it has resulted in a lot of fumbles).

[hallcity]

Should have kicked that FG.

[Acymetric]

Does anyone know what the Duke and ACC records are for team turnovers in a season?

Edit: Turnovers committed, not forced.

[75Crazie]

Two mediocre teams trying to give it away.
Bingo. The first half, State was trying harder, up until the last minute. Since then, Duke has been more generous.

[75Crazie]

On the last State drive, a key third down was converted by a pretty pass to a back curling out of the backfield. I cannot remember the last time I saw a Duke downfield pass to a back. Is that because we have to keep our backs in to help the O-line protect the pass?

[Sixthman]

I don’t understand what the guy calling the plays is watching or thinking. Run on first down for no gain or a loss over and over.

[jimsumner]

I don’t understand what the guy calling the plays is watching or thinking. Run on first down for no gain or a loss over and over.

Trying to wear down the defense.

Seriously.

[75Crazie]

I really don't think that was targeting ... but I might be biased.

[devildeac]

I really don't think that was targeting ... but I might be biased.

I'm biased and that was pretty clear targeting. :mad:

[75Crazie]

But why? It was not helmet-to-helmet, and Leary started his lame attempt at sliding way too late for anyone to pull up. Sorry, but I don't get it.

[PDDuke85]

Trying to wear down the defense.

Seriously.

Great to punch the body, but you have to have a jab, cross, hook to finish it. Do you see a jab, cross, hook?

[YmoBeThere]

I really don't think that was targeting ... but I might be biased.

He was sliding which is also likely the cause of his injury. I do think Young did try and go to the shoulder pad to avoid the helmet to helmet hit.

[jimsumner]

Great to punch the body, but you have to have a jab, cross, hook to finish it. Do you see a jab, cross, hook?

The only thing that has worked offensively for Duke is using short passes to get the ball to playmakers in space and seeing if they can make something happen.

[75Crazie]

Right through his hands.

[jimsumner]

If they could catch they'd be on offense.

But at least knock it down.

At least three really weird Wolfpack receptions.

[arnie]

Right through his hands.

It’s over

[peloton]

Beautiful catch by the State receiver. Now, let's see what we're made of (think I already know).

[devildeac]

Another wheel falls off. :mad:

[Acymetric]

What a godawful play call on 3rd and 3.

[peloton]

Okay, I'm officially not impressed by the play calling now.

[cbarry]

Another wheel falls off. :mad:
Sadly, all of the wheels are just about all the way off right now. :(

[PDDuke85]

Okay, I'm officially not impressed by the play calling now.

Anyone know how many sons Mr and Mrs Roper have?

[Sixthman]

In what world are we going to successfully run up the middle on third and a long three (against anyone other than not as good as liberty Syracuse)?

[Acymetric]

You only call that play on 3rd and medium if you're trying to burn clock with a lead, or if you plan to go for it on 4th and short.

[cbarry]

What a godawful play call on 3rd and 3.

Cut’s offensive plays are even worse than Roper’s. Didn’t think that was possible.

[Sixthman]

Second and 3 is a great time to run.

[jimsumner]

Second and 3 is a great time to run.

Or you could catch the ball.

[heyman25]

Cut’s offensive plays are even worse than Roper’s. Didn’t think that was possible.
Duke is playing losing football in the 2nd half. Players are such boneheads. Dropping passes and Cutcliffe's poor play calling.

[jimsumner]

This could get ugly. Or uglier.

[Acymetric]

This could get ugly. Or uglier.

Hard to believe that is possible.

[Sixthman]

Apparently state’s backup qb can hit the swing pass in stride in a way almost no Duke qb in recent memory has done. Brice often turns his receiver around on this pass, eliminating much chance for run after the catch.

[jimsumner]

That three points Duke didn't take looms large.

[jimsumner]

Or maybe not.

[Acymetric]

This is just so bad. At some point you have to see what you get out of another QB.

[peloton]

Well, that sucks.

[arnie]

This could get ugly. Or uglier.

Uglier, no pressure and our QB hits the Pack defender in stride.

[heyman25]

Brice is so unreliable. That was such a bad pass.

[jimsumner]

That's a defense that's been on the field the entire second half.

[arnie]

Brice is so unreliable. That was such a bad pass.

I know Cut is stubborn, but our backup QBs must not show any promise.

[Sixthman]

That's a defense that's been on the field the entire second half.

Which made it a questionable coaching decision to decline the illegal man down field. We needed the cushion.

[Acymetric]

I know Cut is stubborn, but our backup QBs must not show any promise.

Our QB recruiting has left a lot to be desired. We basically got lucky with Daniel Jones (and completely squandered his talent by failing to put good offensive players around him), and other than that its been project QBs since Renfree.

[jimsumner]

Duke needs a hurry-up score and Duke doesn't do hurry-up. At least, not very well.

[CameronBlue]

It's distressing to know that both State QBs will finish the game with higher QBRs than Brice. Duke loses to a VT team minus 21 player and makes STate's backup QB look like a first team All-ACCer.

[cbarry]

It's distressing to know that both State QBs will finish the game with higher QBRs than Brice. Duke loses to a VT team minus 21 player and makes STate's backup QB look like a first team All-ACCer.

And the only team we beat this year got walloped by Liberty today.

[jimsumner]

Every play has to stop the clock.

[arnie]

And the only team we beat this year got walloped by Liberty today.

Will beat Charlotte; beyond that, I don’t know.

[jimsumner]

Will beat Charlotte; beyond that, I don’t know.

You cannot get sacked. No positional awareness.

[PDDuke85]

Jim,is this team at the point you give the ball to Gunnar and move on?

[heyman25]

That was poor execution . What a poor second half by Duke football.

[Acymetric]

Will beat Charlotte; beyond that, I don’t know.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6fIUOohyg4yegu1G/giphy.gif

[peloton]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/3o6fIUOohyg4yegu1G/giphy.gif

Unfortunately, I concur...we can't take anything for granted.

[Acymetric]

Bobo with a very good (honest) interview in the post game. Very honest and straightforward, not a lot of coach/player speak. Would love to hear from him more.

[Acymetric]

Cut in the post game:

"Chase played really, really well. He was fierce"

Don't count on seeing any new faces at QB.

[SamHouston]

Wow. Wow. Brice just doesn’t make winning plays. State made so many errors in the first half, the game was there for the taking. I am very disappointed. It is crazy that Duke University doesn’t have a competent D1 QB. Sad. Sad.

[Bob Green]

Cut in the post game:

"Chase played really, really well. He was fierce"

Don't count on seeing any new faces at QB.

I agree that Chase Brice played fierce today; however, he also threw three interceptions. Six games is half a season so I do not believe I am premature in saying Brice is not the answer at QB. His inaccuracy is stunning.

[Acymetric]

I agree that Chase Brice played fierce today; however, he also threw three interceptions. Six games is half a season so I do not believe I am premature in saying Brice is not the answer at QB. His inaccuracy is stunning.

Yeah, I can agree with the second half of Cut's comment (Chase does play tough) but not the first half, at all.

[SamHouston]

I can’t watch anymore. Unforgivable, unbelievable.

What? You missed the mid field pop up interception in the third quarter! Awful.

[PackMan97]

It's distressing to know that both State QBs will finish the game with higher QBRs than Brice. Duke loses to a VT team minus 21 player and makes STate's backup QB look like a first team All-ACCer.

To be honest, VT down more players against State looked all world and beat the living snot out of my wolf puppies.

[SamHouston]

I am among the biggest of the Cutcliffe apologists ... but I am so pissed at him right now I can't stand it.

Me too. This needs to be his last year. The fact that Duke doesn’t have a competent D1 QB is absurd. As they say....Succession Planning.

[SamHouston]

Turn down a chip shot to go up by 9? Obviously, a td is better, but the 9 point lead puts the heat on.

Gotta take the field goal.

[Bob Green]

Injuries mounted today. C Will Taylor and CB Leonard Johnson left and did not return. The OL is banged up and simply not very good. The offense sputtering isn’t a surprise with poor performance at OL and QB.

[SamHouston]

I’m ready to end the Chase Brice experiment. Please remind of these words when they turn out to be foolish.

The across the board excellence of the Clemson players covered for him. I have not seen one thing that says D1 starting QB. Nothing.

[Class of '94]

At this point (and there is time for things to turnaround), last year's team looks better than this year's team; and Quentin Harris imo opinion looks like a better quarterback than Brice. I don't this year's defense has the lateral quickness that last year's team and teams of the last few seasons had.

It hurts to say this; and welcome anyone's points as to why this isn't the case.

Also, this year's team doesn't appear be sharp in terms of taking care of the details. They appear to be physically soft; and lack the physicality of past Duke football teams.

I wonder if the pandemic combined lack of practice time (no spring practice) and in-person team workouts really affected this team. The problem is that other teams have had to deal with the same issues. Granted, few in the ACC had to deal with breaking in a new QB, new players and key skill positions, O-line and defense as well as new assistant coaches with little in-person practice time; but this still has veteran players. Where is the veteran leadership right now.

This team could've beaten State today; but we once again shot ourselves in the foot by missing or not making plays or both offense and defense.

And what's scary for me is that if Brice is our best QB, what does that say about our other QBs like Gunnar?

Again, to be fair, Chase hasn't had the kind of offseason he really needed to get acclimated to the system and team prior to playing this season. But again, it still makes me wonder how good our other QBs are if Chase still won the competition under those circumstances.

Sorry for the rant; I'm just disappointed in the performance of this team. I thought they would be better than this.

[heyman25]

I agree that Chase Brice played fierce today; however, he also threw three interceptions. Six games is half a season so I do not believe I am premature in saying Brice is not the answer at QB. His inaccuracy is stunning.

Chase Brice is not sharp. Brice's inaccuracy in scoring opportunity times is atrocious. I know he had a successful Clemson backup for Trevor Lawrence when he got injured. He has been a huge disappointment. I thought he was going to be great. Duke will be hard pressed to win any games.Syracuse was a moment of optimism. Reality Bites.

[jimsumner]

I asked Cut about the end-of-the-first half.

He said he did not think Duke would have been able to run out the clock and needed a first down to avoid punting.

So, I went back and looked again.

Duke got the ball back with 1:34 left. State with one timeout.

Duke runs the ball.

Clock keeps moving.

It takes 14 seconds for the officials to spot the ball and start the 35-second play clock.

That's 1:20.

Duke snaps the ball with 1:01 left on game clock and 16 on play clock, throws an incompletion and stops the clock.

Why?

Instead of passing, snap the ball with one second on play clock, 44 on game clock.

Assume State stops clock with 38 to 40 seconds. Third down and all Duke has to do is burn five seconds or so. Child's play. The officials aren't going to spot the ball for fourth down with more than 35 seconds left. So, Duke just stands there and twiddles their thumbs until halftime.

Duke has to have somebody on the sideline who can figure it out in real time. I know I was doing the math in real time and was dumbfounded when Duke threw it. Duke should NEVER have had to punt that ball. That's on the coaches.

[uh_no]

I asked Cut about the end-of-the-first half.

He said he did not think Duke would have been able to run out the clock and needed a first down to avoid punting.

So, I went back and looked again.

Duke got the ball back with 1:34 left. State with one timeout.

Duke runs the ball.

Clock keeps moving.

It takes 14 seconds for the officials to spot the ball and start the 35-second play clock.

That's 1:20.

Duke snaps the ball with 1:01 left on game clock and 16 on play clock, throws an incompletion and stops the clock.

Why?

Instead of passing, snap the ball with one second on play clock, 44 on game clock.

Assume State stops clock with 38 to 40 seconds. Third down and all Duke has to do is burn five seconds or so. Child's play. The officials aren't going to spot the ball for fourth down with more than 35 seconds left. So, Duke just stands there and twiddles their thumbs until halftime.

Duke has to have somebody on the sideline who can figure it out in real time. I know I was doing the math in real time and was dumbfounded when Duke threw it. Duke should NEVER have had to punt that ball. That's on the coaches.

for better or worse, this kind of time management has always been a major weakness of cut's regimes.

[tteettimes]

for better or worse, this kind of time management has always been a major weakness of cut's regimes.

Really?.....is anyone here really surprised???.......disappointed I understand .....but surprised??
Delusional.....

[OldPhiKap]

I asked Cut about the end-of-the-first half.

He said he did not think Duke would have been able to run out the clock and needed a first down to avoid punting.

So, I went back and looked again.

Duke got the ball back with 1:34 left. State with one timeout.

Duke runs the ball.

Clock keeps moving.

It takes 14 seconds for the officials to spot the ball and start the 35-second play clock.

That's 1:20.

Duke snaps the ball with 1:01 left on game clock and 16 on play clock, throws an incompletion and stops the clock.

Why?

Instead of passing, snap the ball with one second on play clock, 44 on game clock.

Assume State stops clock with 38 to 40 seconds. Third down and all Duke has to do is burn five seconds or so. Child's play. The officials aren't going to spot the ball for fourth down with more than 35 seconds left. So, Duke just stands there and twiddles their thumbs until halftime.

Duke has to have somebody on the sideline who can figure it out in real time. I know I was doing the math in real time and was dumbfounded when Duke threw it. Duke should NEVER have had to punt that ball. That's on the coaches.

Absolutely infuriating. This is hard to watch.

[killerleft]

I asked Cut about the end-of-the-first half.

He said he did not think Duke would have been able to run out the clock and needed a first down to avoid punting.

So, I went back and looked again.

Duke got the ball back with 1:34 left. State with one timeout.

Duke runs the ball.

Clock keeps moving.

It takes 14 seconds for the officials to spot the ball and start the 35-second play clock.

That's 1:20.

Duke snaps the ball with 1:01 left on game clock and 16 on play clock, throws an incompletion and stops the clock.

Why?

Instead of passing, snap the ball with one second on play clock, 44 on game clock.

Assume State stops clock with 38 to 40 seconds. Third down and all Duke has to do is burn five seconds or so. Child's play. The officials aren't going to spot the ball for fourth down with more than 35 seconds left. So, Duke just stands there and twiddles their thumbs until halftime.

Duke has to have somebody on the sideline who can figure it out in real time. I know I was doing the math in real time and was dumbfounded when Duke threw it. Duke should NEVER have had to punt that ball. That's on the coaches.

I asked this question in chat BEFORE the series started. Just doing simple math got us to halftime. Why can Cut and Company NOT figure it out. They get PAID BIG BUCKS to know this stuff.

This would be hard to believe IF we hadn't seen such ignorance before. There is no doubt we'll see it again.

[CameronBlue]

Cut has a conventional approach to the game simply centered on the maxim that if you do your job, stick with your assignments and win the individual matchups--call it the big picture approach--then managing the game clock to steal a few seconds of ball possession time here or there doesn't matter. There is no other rational explanation. (CB 2:18) I think it compels him to run the ball, repeatedly, predictably, infuriatingly and play the long game--tire out the defense--when game conditions are more exigent. But it's a bad strategy for Duke, it doesn't fit the personnel and it places a premium on playing mistake free football, and takes a lot of the guesswork out of the game for the defense.

[DU82]

I asked Cut about the end-of-the-first half.

He said he did not think Duke would have been able to run out the clock and needed a first down to avoid punting.

So, I went back and looked again.

Duke got the ball back with 1:34 left. State with one timeout.

Duke runs the ball.

Clock keeps moving.

It takes 14 seconds for the officials to spot the ball and start the 35-second play clock.

That's 1:20.

Duke snaps the ball with 1:01 left on game clock and 16 on play clock, throws an incompletion and stops the clock.

Why?

Instead of passing, snap the ball with one second on play clock, 44 on game clock.

Assume State stops clock with 38 to 40 seconds. Third down and all Duke has to do is burn five seconds or so. Child's play. The officials aren't going to spot the ball for fourth down with more than 35 seconds left. So, Duke just stands there and twiddles their thumbs until halftime.

Duke has to have somebody on the sideline who can figure it out in real time. I know I was doing the math in real time and was dumbfounded when Duke threw it. Duke should NEVER have had to punt that ball. That's on the coaches.

It’s a 40 second play clock, isn’t it? (25 in certain situations, such as after a penalty.)

Otherwise, spot on. The Announcers questioned why the second down play was snapped with so much time left on the play clock. And, it’s counter to Cut’s typical conservative play at the end of the half with relatively poor field position. I liked actually trying to make a play, but pretty bad play calling, and worse clock management.

[sagegrouse]

What were we? First and goal at the four-yard line? When State sends in its jumbo package -- we pass. All day, every day. Fourth-and-one is too late. I'll be pleased to accept the game ball when my advice is heeded.

[DukieAtlanta]

What were we? First and goal at the four-yard line? When State sends in its jumbo package -- we pass. All day, every day. Fourth-and-one is too late. I'll be pleased to accept the game ball when my advice is heeded.

This is my first time responding to this thread. I have enjoyed following it as I know this is a group of die-hard Duke football fans like me. I have met Cut in person and think he has done some great things, but the last season and a half have been frustrating to watch. We no longer look like the well-coached, disciplined Cut teams from a few years ago. And what happened to the offense?

Quentin Harris didn’t look like a D1 QB after 5 games last year but we stuck with him and the stale offense continued for the rest of the season. Like most of you, I was excited about the move to bring Brice in. But it is very clear that he is not the answer. He showed some toughness today running, but his turnovers, decision making and pocket presence make him a liability. If I see one more INT on a short throw across the middle, I will lose my mind! And they all seem to occur at the worst time.

We could easily have 3 or 4 wins with even average QB play. If we are going to have an RPO offense with a short to medium passing game, we need a better game manager and fewer TOs from the QB. Forget the lack of preseason work, 6 ACC games have shown us enough. Gunnar seems like answer right now. He had an impressive HS career and was rated higher than Brice. Seems obvious to all of us that a change is needed. We can still salvage some of this season with a lot of winnable games.
I know Cut has been criticized for being too loyal to his assistants, but is he too loyal to his players? Harris last year and Brice this year. A bye week and the Charlotte game seem like a great time to work in a new QB

[Bob Green]

Jim Sumner recap on front page:

https://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2020/10/17/21521174/state-knocks-off-duke-in-raleigh-31-20-acc-football

[jv001]

I waited until this morning to post on this thread. I wanted to see if my feelings regarding Brice and Cut would change. The answer is NO. Brice cannot hit a receiver in stride to save his life. Well, not a Duke receiver anyway. I would love to know his stats for his play in the first half this season. They have to be terrible and his 2nd half stats can't be much better. As for Cut, I have supported him since he came to Duke and I still respect him but his play calling is no better than Roper's. One of the TV announcers in one of Duke earlier games made the point it's not a good idea for him to be calling the plays because it takes away the awareness on other aspects of the game like defense and special teams. In his half time interview he basically said the block punt for a TD came from not setting up properly. That's on the coaches. As others have mentioned the clock management part of this game was terrible as was failing to take the chip shot FG. Then throw in the end of half ineptness it was a total disaster for our head coach. I feel right now I hope I don't see Brice throw another pass in a Duke uniform. He's going to get one of our receivers killed by putting them in vulnerable positions. I say this reluctantly, NEXT PLAY.

GoDuke!

[roywhite]

It’s a 40 second play clock, isn’t it? (25 in certain situations, such as after a penalty.)

Otherwise, spot on. The Announcers questioned why the second down play was snapped with so much time left on the play clock. And, it’s counter to Cut’s typical conservative play at the end of the half with relatively poor field position. I liked actually trying to make a play, but pretty bad play calling, and worse clock management.

Well, the time management was so bad that Duke had time enough to get a Field Goal after the blocked punt. :rolleyes:

[Devilwin]

I agree that Brice is not the answer. Certainly not what I expected coming out of Clemson. Too erratic with his throws. At least I got the spread right.(predicted 35=24 State) But wanted to be wrong.
Brice isn't the only issue. The O line got manhandled. Made way too many dumb penalties. Defensive backs gave up several big plays...

[budwom]

I don’t understand what the guy calling the plays is watching or thinking. Run on first down for no gain or a loss over and over.

That, and our obsession with throwing to receivers who are at the line of scrimmage on third and six or seven, just mystifying as to what that's going to do. We did that more than a few times yesterday, it's our bread and butter.

Interesting discussion and rumors at the Devils Den for those who like to dig in further.

[Bob Green]

It starts with the OL and ours is terrible. Link below is to tweet from Takoby Cofield:

https://twitter.com/takobyc73/status/1317605345238388744?s=21

[arnie]

That, and our obsession with throwing to receivers who are at the line of scrimmage on third and six or seven, just mystifying as to what that's going to do. We did that more than a few times yesterday, it's our bread and butter.

Interesting discussion and rumors at the Devils Den for those who like to dig in further.

I think it’s a given that Kevin White isn’t going to terminate Cut. The question is will he give Cut a contract extension in the near term? Doesn't Cut’s contract expire in a year or two, and to enable recruiting, White will have to make a decision soon. Not quite the same as the McCallie situation when he extended her contract, but some similarities.

In the end, I don’t think Admin really cares about Duke football and if Cut can avoid 0-12 he’s likely safe. One other comment, no School has ever lost more than 8 ACC games in a season, Syracuse and Duke could both take that honor this year.

[arnie]

I think it’s a given that Kevin White isn’t going to terminate Cut. The question is will he give Cut a contract extension in the near term? Doesn't Cut’s contract expire in a year or two, and to enable recruiting, White will have to make a decision soon. Not quite the same as the McCallie situation when he extended her contract, but some similarities.

In the end, I don’t think Admin really cares about Duke football and if Cut can avoid 0-12 he’s likely safe. One other comment, no School has ever lost more than 8 ACC games in a season, Syracuse and Duke could both take that honor this year.

Should have googled contract before posting. Cut is good till June 30, 2023 so White can kick the can down the road a bit longer.

[szstark]

This is my first time responding to this thread. I have enjoyed following it as I know this is a group of die-hard Duke football fans like me. I have met Cut in person and think he has done some great things, but the last season and a half have been frustrating to watch. We no longer look like the well-coached, disciplined Cut teams from a few years ago. And what happened to the offense?

Quentin Harris didn’t look like a D1 QB after 5 games last year but we stuck with him and the stale offense continued for the rest of the season. Like most of you, I was excited about the move to bring Brice in. But it is very clear that he is not the answer. He showed some toughness today running, but his turnovers, decision making and pocket presence make him a liability. If I see one more INT on a short throw across the middle, I will lose my mind! And they all seem to occur at the worst time.

We could easily have 3 or 4 wins with even average QB play. If we are going to have an RPO offense with a short to medium passing game, we need a better game manager and fewer TOs from the QB. Forget the lack of preseason work, 6 ACC games have shown us enough. Gunnar seems like answer right now. He had an impressive HS career and was rated higher than Brice. Seems obvious to all of us that a change is needed. We can still salvage some of this season with a lot of winnable games.
I know Cut has been criticized for being too loyal to his assistants, but is he too loyal to his players? Harris last year and Brice this year. A bye week and the Charlotte game seem like a great time to work in a new QB

Totally agree. Continuing to play Brice and expecting a different result is the very definition of insanity. Give someone else a chance.

[DU82]

Well, the time management was so bad that Duke had time enough to get a Field Goal after the blocked punt. :rolleyes:

I was talking about the 3 and out, which, as indicated by Jim S., was supposed to run out the clock. But even in the field goal drive, there was wasted time. The clock stopped showing on the screen, but we went from 39 to 19 seconds somewhere, and seemed like there was not the urgency we needed. I remember yelling hurry up at one point. We were driving, and perhaps could have scored 7 instead of 3. We lost 4 points net in the exchange (State scoring 7 on the blocked punt and us 3, but we did at least go down for the FG.)

[budwom]

I think it’s a given that Kevin White isn’t going to terminate Cut. The question is will he give Cut a contract extension in the near term? Doesn't Cut’s contract expire in a year or two, and to enable recruiting, White will have to make a decision soon. Not quite the same as the McCallie situation when he extended her contract, but some similarities.

In the end, I don’t think Admin really cares about Duke football and if Cut can avoid 0-12 he’s likely safe. One other comment, no School has ever lost more than 8 ACC games in a season, Syracuse and Duke could both take that honor this year.

yes, I've generally agreed with this view, but there are now indications it could be changing. One item that is different from the past is that the whole new Wallace Wade infrastructure depends on people renewing their luxury boxes in the Tower (not to mention ticket sales to the proletariat). Cut needs to be treated with great respect, and I suspect he will be, but that doesn't necessarily mean he'll be our coach for the next two seasons...we'll see.

[chrishoke]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30139996/nc-state-wolfpack-qb-devin-leary-expected-miss-4-8-weeks-broken-fibula

Sad news for the Pack. QB Leary out 4-8 weeks.

[devildeac]

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30139996/nc-state-wolfpack-qb-devin-leary-expected-miss-4-8-weeks-broken-fibula

Sad news for the Pack. QB Leary out 4-8 weeks.

Huge stroke of luck for the cheats :mad:.

[duke2x]

Should have googled contract before posting. Cut is good till June 30, 2023 so White can kick the can down the road a bit longer.

Cut is close to retirement even if we had a 5-1 or 4-2 record this year. He's 66. There is no 50 year old Cut out there right now.

White is close enough to retirement that hiring a new FB coach will be a last resort. Similarly, most FB coaches don't want to be in a position where a new AD is looking to replace them in year 3 just to make a change. If the next Duke AD is internal, you can involve the candidate in the selection process and arguably land a stronger candidate.

I can argue both ways about transfers. It usually is a sign of a recruiting problem, but it has worked well for K and Pollard.

Go Duke, win @Bye.

[devildeac]

Cut is close to retirement even if we had a 5-1 or 4-2 record this year. He's 66. There is no 50 year old Cut out there right now.

White is close enough to retirement that hiring a new FB coach will be a last resort. Similarly, most FB coaches don't want to be in a position where a new AD is looking to replace them in year 3 just to make a change. If the next Duke AD is internal, you can involve the candidate in the selection process and arguably land a stronger candidate.

I can argue both ways about transfers. It usually is a sign of a recruiting problem, but it has worked well for K and Pollard.

Go Duke, win @Bye.

Will we be favored in this tussle? :rolleyes:

[hustleplays]

Will we be favored in this tussle? :rolleyes:

Sorry to report that given our +/- of -5.81, plus an aesthetic factor of -.73, we are 9 points underdog against Bye.

[devildeac]

Sorry to report that given our +/- of -5.81, plus an aesthetic factor of -.73, we are 9 points underdog against Bye.

If we cover, I'll be delighted...

[jimsumner]

I was talking about the 3 and out, which, as indicated by Jim S., was supposed to run out the clock. But even in the field goal drive, there was wasted time. The clock stopped showing on the screen, but we went from 39 to 19 seconds somewhere, and seemed like there was not the urgency we needed. I remember yelling hurry up at one point. We were driving, and perhaps could have scored 7 instead of 3. We lost 4 points net in the exchange (State scoring 7 on the blocked punt and us 3, but we did at least go down for the FG.)

Duke got the ball back after the blocked punt with two timeouts remaining and used only one as the clock ran down, forcing a field goal. Clearly a sub-optimal situation

[devilirium]

This is my first time responding to this thread. I have enjoyed following it as I know this is a group of die-hard Duke football fans like me. I have met Cut in person and think he has done some great things, but the last season and a half have been frustrating to watch. We no longer look like the well-coached, disciplined Cut teams from a few years ago. And what happened to the offense?

Quentin Harris didn’t look like a D1 QB after 5 games last year but we stuck with him and the stale offense continued for the rest of the season. Like most of you, I was excited about the move to bring Brice in. But it is very clear that he is not the answer. He showed some toughness today running, but his turnovers, decision making and pocket presence make him a liability. If I see one more INT on a short throw across the middle, I will lose my mind! And they all seem to occur at the worst time.

We could easily have 3 or 4 wins with even average QB play. If we are going to have an RPO offense with a short to medium passing game, we need a better game manager and fewer TOs from the QB. Forget the lack of preseason work, 6 ACC games have shown us enough. Gunnar seems like answer right now. He had an impressive HS career and was rated higher than Brice. Seems obvious to all of us that a change is needed. We can still salvage some of this season with a lot of winnable games.
I know Cut has been criticized for being too loyal to his assistants, but is he too loyal to his players? Harris last year and Brice this year. A bye week and the Charlotte game seem like a great time to work in a new QB

I think the answer is that he promised guaranteed PT to the Brice family. Chase had a lot of suitors( lot of big names) and Cut’s development of DJ to the point where he was chosen No 6 in the draft gave him some credibility. Throw in the extra year of eligibility for all players and the backups aren’t losing anything. But don’t be surprised to see Holmberg and Katrenick bolt for other pastures after this year.

[Kfanarmy]

...

Also, this year's team doesn't appear be sharp in terms of taking care of the details. They appear to be physically soft; and lack the physicality of past Duke football teams.

I wonder if the pandemic combined lack of practice time (no spring practice) and in-person team workouts really affected this team. The problem is that other teams have had to deal with the same issues. Granted, few in the ACC had to deal with breaking in a new QB, new players and key skill positions, O-line and defense as well as new assistant coaches with little in-person practice time; but this still has veteran players. Where is the veteran leadership right now. …...

Duke was one of the first Schools to fall prey to COVID-19, leading the way in cancelling Basketball tournaments. I'd guess the administration and coaches allowed as little useful practice as possible. Hard to demand toughness out of athletic teams with those examples and restrictions.

[budwom]

Duke was one of the first Schools to fall prey to COVID-19, leading the way in cancelling Basketball tournaments. I'd guess the administration and coaches allowed as little useful practice as possible. Hard to demand toughness out of athletic teams with those examples and restrictions.

I'm not buying Covid as a valid excuse for Duke. Didn't we play a couple games before UVA played any, and they beat us nonetheless...I don't see any of our losses being to teams that had a less difficult time with Covid. Heck, VA Tech was missing something like 20 players when we played them, and that wasn't enough for a Duke win.

[Bob Green]

I'm not buying Covid as a valid excuse for Duke. Didn't we play a couple games before UVA played any, and they beat us nonetheless...I don't see any of our losses being to teams that had a less difficult time with Covid. Heck, VA Tech was missing something like 20 players when we played them, and that wasn't enough for a Duke win.

I agree 100 percent. Trying to sell COVID as a valid excuse is beyond weak. Let’s start with an OL that can’t block, a QB who can’t pass and go from there.

[AustinDevil]

Duke was one of the first Schools to fall prey to COVID-19, leading the way in cancelling Basketball tournaments. I'd guess the administration and coaches allowed as little useful practice as possible. Hard to demand toughness out of athletic teams with those examples and restrictions.

Sorry, what do you mean by Duke "fall[ing] prey" to COVID-19? Are you suggesting that there was a major Duke outbreak of which we are all unaware, or are you suggesting that COVID-19 is a hoax for which Duke fell? I do not see any other potential reading of your words.

[arnie]

I'm not buying Covid as a valid excuse for Duke. Didn't we play a couple games before UVA played any, and they beat us nonetheless...I don't see any of our losses being to teams that had a less difficult time with Covid. Heck, VA Tech was missing something like 20 players when we played them, and that wasn't enough for a Duke win.

Now, wait a minute, for most of the last 50 years I’ve generally heard we’re too young or all our players are injured.

I kind of like a new excuse every so often; otherwise, there’s no excuse for being a Duke football fan🤪.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Sorry, what do you mean by Duke "fall[ing] prey" to COVID-19? Are you suggesting that there was a major Duke outbreak of which we are all unaware, or are you suggesting that COVID-19 is a hoax for which Duke fell? I do not see any other potential reading of your words.

Duke was one of the very first identified places in the country (and surely the state) as a "hot spot". Talking wayyyy back in February/March. At the time, it was actually "major". Had nothing to do with athletics however, but if you mention a school like Duke during March, it will draw eyes and ears.


It is probably why the university has been so proactive moving into the Fall when other schools tossed caution to the wind.

[uh_no]

Duke was one of the very first identified places in the country (and surely the state) as a "hot spot". Talking wayyyy back in February/March. At the time, it was actually "major". Had nothing to do with athletics however, but if you mention a school like Duke during March, it will draw eyes and ears.


It is probably why the university has been so proactive moving into the Fall when other schools tossed caution to the wind.

Duke was not a "hot spot" I don't believe there were any known cases at duke before they decided to close over spring break. They were on the forefront of being proactive then, and they continue to be. Once Harvard pulled the plug, it was only a matter of time for duke. It was one of the earliest states to have cases, yes, that I'll agree with. I doubt, though, that having a couple early cases was what caused the administration to be cautious, nor do I expect it has anything to do with their actions now.

[sagegrouse]

Duke was not a "hot spot" I don't believe there were any known cases at duke before they decided to close over spring break. They were on the forefront of being proactive then, and they continue to be. Once Harvard pulled the plug, it was only a matter of time for duke. It was one of the earliest states to have cases, yes, that I'll agree with. I doubt, though, that having a couple early cases was what caused the administration to be cautious, nor do I expect it has anything to do with their actions now.

There were many cases at Duke in the spring, all people returning from overseas. Duke had enough isolated housing to accommodate them -- and did.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Duke was not a "hot spot" I don't believe there were any known cases at duke before they decided to close over spring break.


There were many cases at Duke in the spring, all people returning from overseas. Duke had enough isolated housing to accommodate them -- and did.
Yep. Foreign travel folks did indeed make Duke "hot spot", and because of that Durham was one of the very early identified locations for COVID in NC. Charlotte, and Mecklenburg county overall, quickly took over the limelight.
It's not anything to be ashamed of or upset about, especially since Duke quickly used that experience to shut it down and for the most part stay clean and be an example for other institutions.

PS...Durham city/county was one of the first in the state to issue shut down ordinances because of the above, which also helped.

[Class of '94]

To be fair to Chase, would he be having a better season if he had a normal summer offseason to practice and train with his new teammates? Moreover, would he be better next year with a spring camp and summer offseason, assuming Cut is back next season.

Also, I love Coach Cut; and appreciate what he has done for the Duke program. I don't want to see him run out of town after all he is done for the Duke program. I think he deserves it after all he is done to raise the program up from the ashes. That said, I don't want to see the program go back down on his watch either. Personally, I think he can turn it around; and worst case, let him finish out his remaining years on this contract. Last year would've gone differently if DJ had stayed for his final year of eligibility; and I do think would've looked better if he had a true off-season to get acclimated to his new school. Maybe I'm too loyal to Cut; but I think he deserves to go out on his own terms, whenever that might be.

Would all of Duke's QB backups and commits transfer or decommit from Duke if Cut stays for another season or 2?

[CameronBornAndBred]

To be fair to Chase, would he be having a better season if he had a normal summer offseason to practice and train with his new teammates? Moreover, would he be better next year with a spring camp and summer offseason, assuming Cut is back next season.

From what I've witnessed, no.
And that's a fine excuse to use for a game or two, but he's had plenty of games and practices under his belt to show that we should expect otherwise. The guy I've watched throw badly against State is the same guy I saw throw badly in game one.

[jimsumner]

From what I've witnessed, no.
And that's a fine excuse to use for a game or two, but he's had plenty of games and practices under his belt to show that we should expect otherwise. The guy I've watched throw badly against State is the same guy I saw throw badly in game one.

Brice is pretty good when he's stationary, has time to set his feet, has an open receiver and is making an intermediate throw.

But that's a lot of qualifiers. He hasn't shown much ability to throw on the run, make accurate deep throws or read coverages. Some of his deep throws look like punts. If Cut is really the quarterback guru we've all made him out to be these should be correctable. Assuming Brice has the fundamental talent. Assuming

[CameronBornAndBred]

Brice is pretty good when he's stationary, has time to set his feet, has an open receiver and is making an intermediate throw.

But that's a lot of qualifiers.

I read that and thought about a kid playing T-Ball. "That boy sure can hit those homeruns!" :rolleyes:

While I have faith in Cut's teaching ability, I just don't see Brice as someone that will change his ways. I'd have more confidence if we'd seen some improvement by now. Like you said, "assuming he has the fundamental talent", but the thing is, I do think he has that talent; he wouldn't be where he is now if he didn't. I simply don't think he has room to get better than where he is now.
Here's an artist's analogy. I know several very talented artists, but some of those have not developed at all in the years that I've known them. I can look at one of their paintings they created yesterday and one they did 15 years ago and not see a difference. I don't know if they hit their wall or simply got stuck in their ways, but they don't push themselves to be better...and if they are pushing, they are simply not able to reach a higher plateau.
Chase Brice in my eyes is one of those artists. If he were a freshman, I'd be more optimistic, but he's been playing this game at a high level for far too long for me to think differently.

[budwom]

Brice is an absolute disaster when trying to run to his left....and hopefully he learns, at some point, to find the opponents in coverage underneath before he makes those throws over the middle...he rarely seems to see those guys.
Way too inconsistent for an offense which relies on a high completion percentage of relatively short passes.

[jv001]

Brice is an absolute disaster when trying to run to his left...and hopefully he learns, at some point, to find the opponents in coverage underneath before he makes those throws over the middle...he rarely seems to see those guys.
Way too inconsistent for an offense which relies on a high completion percentage of relatively short passes.

I have seen Brice throw the ball behind wide open receivers, over throw a wide open receiver where if he'd put a little air under the throw it would have been 6 points, seen him throw balls high that could have gotten the receiver injured and I'm yet to see him hit a receiver in stride(instead of throwing it behind him). When you consider his poor decisions on the field, it makes you wonder if he's a division 1 QB.

GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

I have seen Brice throw the ball behind wide open receivers, over throw a wide open receiver where if he'd put a little air under the throw it would have been 6 points, seen him throw balls high that could have gotten the receiver injured and I'm yet to see him hit a receiver in stride(instead of throwing it behind him). When you consider his poor decisions on the field, it makes you wonder if he's a division 1 QB.

GoDuke!

Well, the team has two weeks until a Halloween match-up with Charlotte. I expect there will be a real change in the offense, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Gunnar on the field much of the game. Yeah, I know Cutcliffe has totally endorsed Chase Brice, but you have to give 100 percent support to your quarterback. That is, until you decide to make a change.

[budwom]

I have seen Brice throw the ball behind wide open receivers, over throw a wide open receiver where if he'd put a little air under the throw it would have been 6 points, seen him throw balls high that could have gotten the receiver injured and I'm yet to see him hit a receiver in stride(instead of throwing it behind him). When you consider his poor decisions on the field, it makes you wonder if he's a division 1 QB.

GoDuke!

It's very disappointing that, given Cut's reputation as a QB coach, we've had such poor QB play the last two years. Attribute it to whatever you want, (coaching, recruiting, development) but one would think we could do much better.

[uh_no]

It's very disappointing that, given Cut's reputation as a QB coach, we've had such poor QB play the last two years. Attribute it to whatever you want, (coaching, recruiting, development) but one would think we could do much better.

that's a bit of a fallacy....like saying "despite K's reputation as a basketball coach, we've had down years and players who had lackluster careers"

[budwom]

that's a bit of a fallacy...like saying "despite K's reputation as a basketball coach, we've had down years and players who had lackluster careers"

I see no parallel whatsoever.

[uh_no]

I see no parallel whatsoever.

coach A is great at B and therefore his athletes should succeed at it every time or else it is a shortcoming of the coach.

It's even more tenuous when you're depending on individual athletes succeeding rather than a team as a whole.

[chrishoke]

coach A is great at B and therefore his athletes should succeed at it every time or else it is a shortcoming of the coach.

It's even more tenuous when you're depending on individual athletes succeeding rather than a team as a whole.

Don't forget, recruiting is also part of the job.

[uh_no]

Don't forget, recruiting is also part of the job.

no doubt.

[budwom]

coach A is great at B and therefore his athletes should succeed at it every time or else it is a shortcoming of the coach.

It's even more tenuous when you're depending on individual athletes succeeding rather than a team as a whole.

Ha, no one said "every time," that's a straw man. I did say that for two years in a row, we've had two QBs who are simply bad...despite the fact that we've had years to groom QBs in the program....that we have no one on the bench better than Brice is unfortunate, at least to me.

[roywhite]

Ha, no one said "every time," that's a straw man. I did say that for two years in a row, we've had two QBs who are simply bad...despite the fact that we've had years to groom QBs in the program...that we have no one on the bench better than Brice is unfortunate, at least to me.

...and that with a Head Coach known as a "Quarterback Whisperer" who understands and can teach the position very well.

Puzzling, actually.

**I note as I look at some previous posts that budwom has been saying the same.

[PDDuke85]

Ha, no one said "every time," that's a straw man. I did say that for two years in a row, we've had two QBs who are simply bad...despite the fact that we've had years to groom QBs in the program...that we have no one on the bench better than Brice is unfortunate, at least to me.

I’d like to see the kids on the bench given a chance to prove they’re no better than the current starter.

[heyman25]

Hope Chase gets better. Daniel Jones does not play on a quality team, but he has not been that sharp in the NFL thus far. He has the size and athleticism, but is not that great in the decision making department.

Duke needs to recover from this poor executing offense. It starts with the QB. Brice has to get his act together.

[Jaymf7]

I am still shocked that the Daniel Jones story -- walk-on with no real D1 offers transformed into a top pick in NFL draft -- combined with the Manning success did not yield any highly-rated QB recruits. You get a Duke degree (think media after your pro career, a jump several of our grads have made) and a good chance to develop into a pro QB. If Jones could do it with no recruiting buzz, what could a 5 star do here? Alas, the empty stadiums seem to have had a counterbalancing effect.

[rtnorthrup]

Is there a place to get advanced college football stats. I would love to see the percentage of passes that go +20 yards in the air during Cuts tenure. I would also like to compare that to top 25 programs.

[uh_no]

I am still shocked that the Daniel Jones story -- walk-on with no real D1 offers transformed into a top pick in NFL draft -- combined with the Manning success did not yield any highly-rated QB recruits. You get a Duke degree (think media after your pro career, a jump several of our grads have made) and a good chance to develop into a pro QB. If Jones could do it with no recruiting buzz, what could a 5 star do here? Alas, the empty stadiums seem to have had a counterbalancing effect.

Jones' was much maligned at draft time because duke's play on the field was relatively terrible. People don't want to put up with that.

[tteettimes]

jones' was much maligned at draft time because duke's play on the field was relatively terrible. People don't want to put up with that.


a m e n ,!!!!!

[Acymetric]

Jones' was much maligned at draft time because duke's play on the field was relatively terrible. People don't want to put up with that.

I've tried to bring this up pretty much every time someone touts Jones' high draft pick as a sign that the program is doing well but it is generally either poorly received or entirely dismissed/ignored.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I've tried to bring this up pretty much every time someone touts Jones' high draft pick as a sign that the program is doing well but it is generally either poorly received or entirely dismissed/ignored.

The Daniel Jones I've seen in NY is pretty much what I expected. Never understood his high draft status.

[uh_no]

The Daniel Jones I've seen in NY is pretty much what I expected. Never understood his high draft status.

he was pretty good last year. he's been terrible this year. The giants as a whole are also terrible. I haven't watched enough of the giants (i'm surprised any could!) this year to know to what degree he's been bad, and to what degree the team has been bad. His week 1 picks were atrocious, but he seems to have steadied on that front somewhat since. The CMP% is lower than you'd want, but again, the question is how close is he to the ceiling that anyone could play on that team? Dunno. He did have a 50 yard run this past sunday.

[jv001]

The Daniel Jones I've seen in NY is pretty much what I expected. Never understood his high draft status.

I would love to see Daniel Jones play behind a good offensive line. The Giants are terrible at protecting the QB. The NFC East is a cesspool.

GoDuke!

[sagegrouse]

The Daniel Jones I've seen in NY is pretty much what I expected. Never understood his high draft status.


he was pretty good last year. he's been terrible this year. The giants as a whole are also terrible. I haven't watched enough of the giants (i'm surprised any could!) this year to know to what degree he's been bad, and to what degree the team has been bad. His week 1 picks were atrocious, but he seems to have steadied on that front somewhat since. The CMP% is lower than you'd want, but again, the question is how close is he to the ceiling that anyone could play on that team? Dunno. He did have a 50 yard run this past sunday.


I would love to see Daniel Jones play behind a good offensive line. The Giants are terrible at protecting the QB. The NFC East is a cesspool.

GoDuke!

I think Daniel is better than his stats. The O-line is clearly weak -- and the loss of Saquon Barkley would tragic for any team. He has made some great throws, especially to Darius Slayton and Golden Tate. And his running ability is definite plus for the team.

I look forward to better results the rest of the season -- or perhaps next year.

[jv001]

I think Daniel is better than his stats. The O-line is clearly weak -- and the loss of Saquon Barkley would tragic for any team. He has made some great throws, especially to Darius Slayton and Golden Tate. And his running ability is definite plus for the team.

I look forward to better results the rest of the season -- or perhaps next year.

Daniel also has a bad TE. Engram was supposed to really be good this season but he's played poorly. He's had several catchable passes that he didn't bring in. Daniel will be ok, at least his owner isn't Daniel Snyder.

GoDuke!

[roywhite]

I think Daniel is better than his stats. The O-line is clearly weak -- and the loss of Saquon Barkley would tragic for any team. He has made some great throws, especially to Darius Slayton and Golden Tate. And his running ability is definite plus for the team.

I look forward to better results the rest of the season -- or perhaps next year.

Daniel absolutely needs to cut down on turnovers, both fumbles and interceptions. But considering his experience level and what he is working with, I believe he is playing well enough to project as a competent NFL starting QB.

That 80-yard run exhibited not only his top-end speed, but also his determination and competitiveness. He was trying so hard (too hard it turned out in the late stages of the run) to make a big play. What could he do with a healthy Saquon and even a half-decent O-line?

[budwom]

Daniel absolutely needs to cut down on turnovers, both fumbles and interceptions. But considering his experience level and what he is working with, I believe he is playing well enough to project as a competent NFL starting QB.

That 80-yard run exhibited not only his top-end speed, but also his determination and competitiveness. He was trying so hard (too hard it turned out in the late stages of the run) to make a big play. What could he do with a healthy Saquon and even a half-decent O-line?

By and large, the post game analysis of the Giants' (typical) meltdown is favorable towards Jones....a catch by Engram would have won the game, in the absence of Barkley, Jones is the primary running thread, and Gannett today called him a star on the rise...

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Duke won't lose this week!

[PDDuke85]

I have a sneaky suspicion that Duke won't lose this week!

My liver is thrilled with the bye week.

[Kfanarmy]

I'm not buying Covid as a valid excuse for Duke. Didn't we play a couple games before UVA played any, and they beat us nonetheless...I don't see any of our losses being to teams that had a less difficult time with Covid. Heck, VA Tech was missing something like 20 players when we played them, and that wasn't enough for a Duke win.

I guess I missed the mark in my emphasis here....it was about the example Duke set in its decision making, that may have longer lasting impact on its teams than one would think. There's always a first person to charge the enemy and a first person to head the other way...whose followers are probably tougher?

[budwom]

I guess I missed the mark in my emphasis here...it was about the example Duke set in its decision making, that may have longer lasting impact on its teams than one would think. There's always a first person to charge the enemy and a first person to head the other way...whose followers are probably tougher?

I think Duke handled things pretty well, judging by the relatively few cases on campus...I would think that this is a net positive for the football team...sure didn't help Va Tech to have 20 guys out against us (though they won anyway).
Anyway, discretion is the better part of valor, as they say!

[Kfanarmy]

I think Duke handled things pretty well, judging by the relatively few cases on campus...I would think that this is a net positive for the football team...sure didn't help Va Tech to have 20 guys out against us (though they won anyway).
Anyway, discretion is the better part of valor, as they say!

fair enough...but if you hadn't known it was called COVID, would you even notice it on a college campus against the backdrop of flu season, the vibrance of college life, football, basketball, etc. etc? Existing safe comes at an opportunity cost. One that may last a lot longer than the symptoms, if any, the average college student, family member, fan would or will experience. Can't expect toughness of others while championing weakness.

[AustinDevil]

fair enough...but if you hadn't known it was called COVID, would you even notice it on a college campus against the backdrop of flu season, the vibrance of college life, football, basketball, etc. etc? Existing safe comes at an opportunity cost. One that may last a lot longer than the symptoms, if any, the average college student, family member, fan would or will experience. Can't expect toughness of others while championing weakness.

Do you think college students only have younger siblings?

What do you think is the average age of a season ticket holder in Cameron?

Do faculty and staff not exist?

What does "championing weakness" mean, exactly?