Duke – Notre Dame

[4decadedukie]

The conclusion of Notre Dame’s season was supposed to be “get well time” for the coach, their team and the football-veracious ND fans/alums. Obviously, it hasn’t worked out that way, with consecutive losses to Navy and Air Force. Duke and Stanford conclude ND’s season, and I have this visceral feeling that our Blue Devils will win next Saturday. Despite improvements, we have a LONG way to go, but, clearly, this has been ND’s worst season in many years (probably ever).

The key questions seem to be: (1) Is Notre Dame – attitude and tenacity – currently capable of winning? (2) Will Notre Dame use this home game to help restore they pride? (3) Can – and will – Duke seize this opportunity, play a solid game on both sides of the ball, and win?

Years from now, few will remember that 2007 was a truly atypical season for the Irish, but the record can document Duke's victory over this historically storied program on 17 November.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

GO DUKE! BEAT THE IRISH!

[cspan37421]

Sadly I don't think this game matters much except to the players who, hopefully, play because they simply love the game of football, love to compete, and will try like hell to win.

If Duke wins, I don't think it will be that significant, because Notre Dame is so down this year, and such a win will always be explained away for that reason. I don't think it will save Roof's job, whether a change is made this year or at the end of his contract - whenever that is. If we win, it would not be as impressive of a win as Northwestern, considering the teams' records this year.

If Duke loses, it won't matter to either school that much. ND can hardly be proud at beating a program with our recent record, and well, it would just be more of the same result for us.

I'm sure our guys are hungry for a win, any win, and I hope they can pull it off so as to not be completely bottom of the barrel. But I think the result of the game will change nothing about the future of our program, nor will it change the national perception of it. A win vs. ND and then one vs. UNC, now that might make a dent. But, as Nuke LaLoosh said, we've gotta take one game at a time.

[Olympic Fan]

About the only thing that I'm sure of is that Duke will play hard. Not saying they'll play well. Not sure they'll win. But the players haven't quit and the prospect of winning at Notre Dame -- even in a bad year for the Irish -- is a terrific motivator.

Is very much like during the 1995 basketball season, when Duke suddenly fell apart. Nobody came into Cameron with the attitude "well, it doesn't mean much because they're so down this year." Beating Duke -- even a bad Duke team -- was still a big, BIG deal.

I know Duke will play hard. I also know that Notre Dame will take the field expecting to win. Whether that makes them play harder or makes them more vulnerable, I don't know.

[johnb]

C'mon. How many of you expected that Duke and Notre Dame would enter the game with identical records? Show of hands...

It's a huge game. If Duke wins, it really sets us up for next year, helps with recruiting, etc. I don't care that they're having a down year. It's still in South Bend, on television, and would be great for the program.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'll be there at the game. It should be pretty awesome, especially if we win. I think that the reaction that Navy had after beating ND sums it up: this is still Notre Dame.

[Cavlaw]

One of my coworkers and former Duke teammates is trying to get me to go down with him next weekend. I'm seriously considering it.

[houstondukie]

Sadly I don't think this game matters much except to the players who, hopefully, play because they simply love the game of football, love to compete, and will try like hell to win.

If Duke wins, I don't think it will be that significant, because Notre Dame is so down this year, and such a win will always be explained away for that reason. I don't think it will save Roof's job, whether a change is made this year or at the end of his contract - whenever that is. If we win, it would not be as impressive of a win as Northwestern, considering the teams' records this year.

If Duke loses, it won't matter to either school that much. ND can hardly be proud at beating a program with our recent record, and well, it would just be more of the same result for us.

I'm sure our guys are hungry for a win, any win, and I hope they can pull it off so as to not be completely bottom of the barrel. But I think the result of the game will change nothing about the future of our program, nor will it change the national perception of it. A win vs. ND and then one vs. UNC, now that might make a dent. But, as Nuke LaLoosh said, we've gotta take one game at a time.

I completely disagree. While Notre Dame has already had their worst season ever, losing to Duke would be the lowest point in their season. Notre Dame has played a brutal schedule this year. I'm not sure they were favored in any of their games so far this year. But they should be favored against Duke and a loss to us will be hugely embarrasing for Notre Dame.

As far as Duke goes, this game means a lot. I don't think if we win it will mean our program is necessarily "on the rise" but I think it will be "cool" to say we beat Notre Dame. Everyone wants to beat Duke in basketball and even a down year last year didn't change that.

I think we have a good shot at beating Notre Dame and I can't wait for the game.

[dukie8]

I completely disagree. While Notre Dame has already had their worst season ever, losing to Duke would be the lowest point in their season. Notre Dame has played a brutal schedule this year. I'm not sure they were favored in any of their games so far this year. But they should be favored against Duke and a loss to us will be hugely embarrasing for Notre Dame.

As far as Duke goes, this game means a lot. I don't think if we win it will mean our program is necessarily "on the rise" but I think it will be "cool" to say we beat Notre Dame. Everyone wants to beat Duke in basketball and even a down year last year didn't change that.

I think we have a good shot at beating Notre Dame and I can't wait for the game.

if duke can beat nd, it would be a VERY big win no matter how down nd is this year. the analogies cited above regarding duke in 1995 are spot on. i also think that if nd loses next week, weis is gone (i assume that the ban on talking about roof doesn't apply to coaches at other schools). that 10-year $30MM contract isn't looking to pretty right now...

[mapei]

Considering the seasons both teams have had, a loss should be devastating to whichever school has to suffer it.

[gep]

Is very much like during the 1995 basketball season, when Duke suddenly fell apart. Nobody came into Cameron with the attitude "well, it doesn't mean much because they're so down this year." Beating Duke -- even a bad Duke team -- was still a big, BIG deal.

I agree... actually beating Duke whether good or bad, up or down... anytime... IS a BIG DEAL... ESPECIALLY in Cameron. And, I will TOTALLY hang my hat on a win against ND especially at "their house"... no matter what. This IS a big game, given the circumstances that just might allow a Duke win.:)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

And, I will TOTALLY hang my hat on a win against ND especially at "their house"... no matter what. This IS a big game, given the circumstances that just might allow a Duke win.:)

I am going to watch the game on TV instead of playing golf next Saturday. That is how big a deal I think it is.

GO DUKE!BEAT THE IRISH!

[blazindw]

For anyone in the DC area, there will be a watch party on Saturday at Buffalo Billiards. It's geared as a young alumni event, but we welcome anyone that bleeds Duke Blue. Should be a great time!

My heart will bleeding two blues on Saturday...Duke Blue and Michigan Blue. Hopefully it will be a good day of football!

[throatybeard]

I'll be in attendance at Notre Dame. Let's paint Michiana Duke blue.

[Troublemaker]

ND has opened as 5-pt favorites. I hope I'm wrong but I think they romp, to be honest. As bad as ND has been this season, I still think they're a notch above Duke in recruited talent and that notch will be demonstrated on the field Saturday when the Irish take out a season's worth of frustration on our boys.

[JasonEvans]

As bad as ND has been this season, I still think they're a notch above Duke in recruited talent...

"A notch"!??!?!

How many kids on the Duke roster would have even been considered at Notre Dame? Aside from Vince O, is there anyone else on the Duke team who would have gotten an offer from Notre Dame?

--Jason "recruiting ranking don't win games though" Evans

[Troublemaker]

Haha, yeah, I was trying to be nice. I do think Duke has their share of decent run/jump guys and ND's recruiting fell off during the Willingham years, but if there were an NFL scouting combine consisting of only ND and Duke players, ND would probably still have 40 of the top 50 rated players or so after the combine, I would guess.

[6th Man]

I really hope Duke wins, but I must admit I am impressed that anyone thinks Duke has a chance even against a really bad Notre Dame team. After watching every home game, especially the last two........Duke is about as bad as it can possibly be. I mean guys are even dropping wide open passes. Sorry to sound so negative, but GEEZE, they are playing terrible football. At times it is almost comical.

And Duke has nothing to gain. If they win, well everyone is beating Notre Dame. If they lose......I can just hear SportsCenter now cracking on the team for losing. It just adds more fuel to the laughing stock of college football.

Sorry fellow fans......I'm just having to vent a little. Especially after the last 2 games in which I question the effort. If you weren't there at the game against Tech you would not believe how many wide open passes were dropped. Would have been much worse on the scoreboard if not for some turnovers by Tech.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Regis Philbin, noted Notre Dame fan extraordinaire, said on his show today that he is glad to see Duke on their schedule this week, as they are favored (by 5 1/2 points in this morning's paper). Me thinks he is in for a really big disappointment on Saturday!

GO DUKE! BEAT THE IRISH!

[Flyers52]

this might be a stupid question for those former and current Crazies, and Duke students/alums...But what does the 9F 9F 9F mean about Carowhina?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

this might be a stupid question for those former and current Crazies, and Duke students/alums...But what does the 9F 9F 9F mean about Carowhina?

Please refer to Throaty's Handy Pocket Reference, sticky'd to the top of the board, currently the second thread from the top.

[mapei]

This is a relief. Before I opened the thread, I was afraid that he was losing Kelly Ripa to another show.

[formerdukeathlete]

"A notch"!??!?!

How many kids on the Duke roster would have even been considered at Notre Dame? Aside from Vince O, is there anyone else on the Duke team who would have gotten an offer from Notre Dame?

--Jason "recruiting ranking don't win games though" Evans

Zach Asack, because of lateral quickness, 40 yard times, being a state champ in the sprint hurdles, as an athlete, perhaps, rather than as a targeted QB

Gene Delle Donne was offered as a QB - ok so he left for middle Tenn. State - but was on the roster and still would have eligibility.

As an aside, Armando Allen, starting at tailback for NC as a true freshman, apparently was fairly seriously considering Duke, but was discouraged by last years record.

[Mal]

To those fretting that we have no chance this weekend, take solace. I've seen Notre Dame play this season, at home, and I can say this: anyone, I repeat, ANYONE, has a chance against Notre Dame this season.

I noted to myself during the second half of the game I attended that USC really wasn't very impressive and wasn't playing all that well. Then I noticed the scoreboard said 38-0.

Now, I haven't seen our Devils play, and I know they're a far cry from USC. But still. Notre Dame has one of the worst offenses I've seen.

Also, it's a weak indicator, of course, but look at common opponents: virtually the same results against Navy (except ND was at home against them), and we fared far better against Georgia Tech than 33-3.

It sounds like our team's become a bit demoralized after some early season close losses and then poor performances against the meat of the ACC. But I would guess anyone would get pretty fired up to be in Notre Dame Stadium, so that should help.

[Cavlaw]

I continue to flip-flop on whether to attend. My father played at Michigan, and I usually liek to watch The Game with him, but I might be willing to miss it in favor of a trip to South Bend for this particular occassion.

[chrisheery]

For all of you excited to see Duke take down Notre Dame this weekend, here is a site dedicated to you.

www.dukesuperbowl.com

please visit, if you have any comments or email, the administrator is a friend who will respond and update the site as you think he should.

Enjoy

[Classof06]

I've been saying it for months and you can mark it down: Duke will beat Notre Dame. You see, the majority of the nation writes Duke off, and they should. But what they don't see is that Duke plays ACC teams pretty close for 2.5 - 3quarters a game. Furthermore, Notre Dame is a vast drop in competition to the teams Duke faces week in/week out in the ACC. Duke will come in hungry, and I'm telling you, they will beat ND this Saturday...

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I've been saying it for months and you can mark it down: Duke will beat Notre Dame. You see, the majority of the nation writes Duke off, and they should. But what they don't see is that Duke plays ACC teams pretty close for 2.5 - 3quarters a game. Furthermore, Notre Dame is a vast drop in competition to the teams Duke faces week in/week out in the ACC. Duke will come in hungry, and I'm telling you, they will beat ND this Saturday...

From you lips to God's ears. Oh, wait, let's hope he doesn't take sides...

[blazindw]

In case anyone wants a shirt commemorating this weekend's game...

http://www.footballfanatics.com/COLLEGE_Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish/adidas_Notre_Dame_Fighting_Irish_vs_Duke_Blue_Devi ls_White_Main_Event_T-shirt

[watzone]

Duke needs a good showing (http://myblogdevils.eponym.com/blog/_archives/2007/11/13/3351645.html) versus Notre Dame.

[hurleyfor3]

This is going to be so weird, a Duke football game on Big Three network teevee.

[YmoBeThere]

Yeah, I'll be able to see another game...instead of trying to listen on Yahoo! or following along the stat updates.

Not very insightful, huh?

[hc5duke]

http://www.dukesuperbowl.com/

Somewhat funny, I figured I'd post it here.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It's coming on next at 2:55 pm est. The teaser said Duke will win if the business world gets its way!

Stay tuned for details. Or tune in yourself!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Stay tuned for details.

The Fuqua study comes to 2 conclusions:
1. Student (fan) attendance and participation isn't so much a result of success but a DRIVER of success.
2. Coaching compensation correlates with winning, Charlie Weis excepted ;)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Damn so what did they say Ozzie? It's 3:00 here so I probably missed it already.

Also, that expenditures on facilities does NOT correlate with winning. So much for the battle for facilities superiority. But they still need to improve WW as discussed in the other thread (to where now that the CNBC news bit has passed I suspect the moderators will move this thread.)

[juise]

http://www.dukesuperbowl.com/

Somewhat funny, I figured I'd post it here.

Nice... I thought it was a little better than somewhat funny. Thanks for posting.

[NW Indiana Dukie]

Thanks...I can't wait:D I am going to the game with a bunch of ND fans and a DUKE victory will be the icing on the cake!

[wisteria]

Somebody (Duke graduate according to the website) set up this funny site. www.dukesuperbowl.com


Disclaimer: I wish all the best for Duke's football team and I respect the team's effort.

Go Duke! Get the 2nd win!

[Troublemaker]

Sorry, didn't want to start a new thread for this, but man, I feel bad for Oregon with Dixon going down and now they're getting blown out.

[Troublemaker]

I've been saying it for months and you can mark it down: Duke will beat Notre Dame. You see, the majority of the nation writes Duke off, and they should. But what they don't see is that Duke plays ACC teams pretty close for 2.5 - 3quarters a game. Furthermore, Notre Dame is a vast drop in competition to the teams Duke faces week in/week out in the ACC. Duke will come in hungry, and I'm telling you, they will beat ND this Saturday...

I think ND feels the same way about Duke, though, wrt "vast drop in competition". And they still have more talent than us and their one win (UCLA in the Rose Bowl) was more impressive than ours. I dunno, man, but I hope you're right.

[Bob Green]

This article (http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071114/SPORTS13/711140442/1023/SPORTS13) from the South Bend Tribune is an injury report and a preview of the game.

[YmoBeThere]

From the South Bend Tribune


Changing teams

Weis asserts that Saturday's reunion with former Irish assistant Peter Vaas, now Duke's offensive coordinator, won't be awkward but it won't be benign, either.

Maybe this explains everything about the current maladies of both teams...

[Uncle Drew]

Sadly I don't think this game matters much except to the players who, hopefully, play because they simply love the game of football, love to compete, and will try like hell to win.

If Duke wins, I don't think it will be that significant, because Notre Dame is so down this year, and such a win will always be explained away for that reason. I don't think it will save Roof's job, whether a change is made this year or at the end of his contract - whenever that is. If we win, it would not be as impressive of a win as Northwestern, considering the teams' records this year.

If Duke loses, it won't matter to either school that much. ND can hardly be proud at beating a program with our recent record, and well, it would just be more of the same result for us.

I'm sure our guys are hungry for a win, any win, and I hope they can pull it off so as to not be completely bottom of the barrel. But I think the result of the game will change nothing about the future of our program, nor will it change the national perception of it. A win vs. ND and then one vs. UNC, now that might make a dent. But, as Nuke LaLoosh said, we've gotta take one game at a time.


It's cliché but every game matters. Trinity beating Elon in 1899 mattered just like a victory over Notre Dame matters. But I submit for the jury this game matters MUCH more for Duke than some of us want to admit.

1. A victory on National TV can only help recruiting, Duke was on national TV in football the last time when?

2. A victory over football U no matter how down they are is a big deal. The schools that beat Duke in basketball in 1995 point to those victories now with pride and there is no * beside them saying Coach K wasn't leading the troops.

3. As a school with a high academic reputation ND losing to a school of even higher learning could sway some recruits down the road. Sure it's not guaranteed, but we can hope. Let's face it Duke can't bring in some of the guys FSU, Miami, Michigan can because they couldn't pass a class in making hand puppets at Duke. But those smart guys who are decent football players would be a great addition to the Blue Devil squad. And with all the turmoil already around the coach a few transfers to Durham would be nice thing.

[Udaman]

Obviously, the Duke game today is pretty important. We are facing Notre Dame, it is on National TV, and this is probably the only time in the last 20 years that we've had even a shot of beating them.

That being said, this game will determine the immediate future of Ted Roof. If we win, he's back for sure next year. If we lose, but it is close, I think he's likely back.

But....

If we go in there, and Notre Dame beats us badly (and by badly I mean a 10+ point win, where we are never really in it)....Roof is - and should be - gone this year.

Notre Dame is not that good. We should compete with them. If we don't...it will cost Roof his job.

[thomas]

I do think this is is the most important game in recent Duke football history...national PR, recruiting, pride, morale, platform for next year,etc.

Let the cynics begin....


Meanwhile, I wish I were in Maui.

[Bluedawg]

Sorry, but i don't think any one game is make or break, or at least it should not be..

[Bluedawg]

Patience for some has run out as Wake Forest won the ACC title in 2006, and traditional doormats such as Rutgers, and Rice last season, are turning their programs around.

Wake's Orange Bowl season inspired Roof to organize the "Duke Football Summit" last January. Roof detailed where Duke was in its progress and how it might emulate the Deacons' success. Roof told the group of former players gathered at the summit that Duke would have a chance to be bowl eligible in 2008.

"I was just trying to tell the truth," Roof said. "I said this year would be our best team, but the record might not reflect it. Next year, with the way things are lining up, I expect us to be a good football team."

Experience, Roof stressed, played a pivotal part in Wake's conference title, which came in Jim Grobe's sixth season at Wake. The more experienced Grobe's players got, the more games Wake won.

This year's junior class is Roof's first full recruiting class, and many started as freshmen. No team in the country played more freshmen than Duke in 2004 or 2005, 14 each season

Duke will have 17 starters back in 2008, led by quarterback Thaddeus Lewis, who will have two seasons of starting experience behind an offensive line that will not have to be rebuilt, something Roof had to do in each of his first three seasons.
Plenty at stake for Roof (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/776561.html)


4.5 years is not long enough. he said "bowl eligible in 2008." Give him that chance!

[wilson]

...this is probably the only time in the last 20 years that we've had even a shot of beating them.



Don't mean to nitpick (well OK, yes I do), but in the '94 season, Notre Dame was 6-5-1, while Duke was 8-4. Doesn't that qualify as at least a shot?

Sadly, in '88 and '89, Duke's other winning seasons in the last 20 (groan) at 7-3 and 8-4 respectively, Notre Dame turned in records of 12-0 and 12-1. No shot there, methinks.

[YmoBeThere]

"Experience, Roof stressed, played a pivotal part in Wake's conference title, which came in Jim Grobe's sixth season at Wake. The more experienced Grobe's players got, the more games Wake won."

Wake's wins in the last 6 years:
2006 - 8
2005 - 4
2004 - 4
2003 - 5
2002 - 7
2001 - 6

Wins in 2000(Pre-Grobe): 2

I think the key difference is that Grobe didn't go backwards to go forwards...something that many seem to assume is the natural course of events.

[JasonEvans]

The story of today's game may be weakness against weakness-- Duke averages something like 50 yards per game rushing, which is far and away the worst in all of Division I football. Notre Dame gives up an average of more than 200 yards rushing per game. Will Duke's inability to run the ball of ND's inability to stop the run win out?

--Jason "I agree that no one game should carry too much weight, but it is hard not to see this as a huge, huge game for Roof's future" Evans

[dukie8]

Obviously, the Duke game today is pretty important. We are facing Notre Dame, it is on National TV, and this is probably the only time in the last 20 years that we've had even a shot of beating them.

That being said, this game will determine the immediate future of Ted Roof. If we win, he's back for sure next year. If we lose, but it is close, I think he's likely back.

But....

If we go in there, and Notre Dame beats us badly (and by badly I mean a 10+ point win, where we are never really in it)....Roof is - and should be - gone this year.

Notre Dame is not that good. We should compete with them. If we don't...it will cost Roof his job.

i thought that there was a moratorium on commenting on roof's future?

you guys brought up grobe and how wake patiently waited 6 years for an acc championship. that's great but you also omitted what grobe did in those 6 years in the same acc that duke plays in. here it is:

2001: 6-5, 3-5 acc
2002: 6-6, 3-5 acc
2003: 5-7, 3-5 acc
2004: 4-7, 1-7 acc
2005: 4-7, 3-5 acc
2006: 11-3, 7-2 acc

roof's record:
2003 2-3, 2-2 acc
2004 2-9, 1-7 acc
2005 1-10, 0-8 acc
2006 0-12, 0-8 acc
2007 1-9, 0-6 acc

the comparison is ridiculous. tossing out 2003, because he just got tossed in as interim coach, roof has a TOTAL of 4 wins and a TOTAL of 1 acc win in almost 4 seasons. grobe averaged more than that PER SEASON in the 5 seasons leading up to 2006 and NEVER had a season even remotely as bad as roof's BEST season.

[Bluedawg]

"Experience, Roof stressed, played a pivotal part in Wake's conference title, which came in Jim Grobe's sixth season at Wake. The more experienced Grobe's players got, the more games Wake won."

Wake's wins in the last 6 years:
2006 - 8
2005 - 4
2004 - 4
2003 - 5
2002 - 7
2001 - 6

Wins in 2000(Pre-Grobe): 2

I think the key difference is that Grobe didn't go backwards to go forwards...something that many seem to assume is the natural course of events.

Is 5 and 4 not going backwards after wins of 6 and 7?

[YmoBeThere]

I posted similar numbers, shortly before you did...and agree with you. However, 11 wins in 2006. Is that right? I did a manual count from the Wake website, but I know there are easier sources to look at for these numbers.

[YmoBeThere]

Yes and no. The starting point was 2 wins the year before he got there. That is why I posted that number.

[hondoheel]

The story of today's game may be weakness against weakness-- Duke averages something like 50 yards per game rushing, which is far and away the worst in all of Division I football. Notre Dame gives up an average of more than 200 yards rushing per game. Will Duke's inability to run the ball of ND's inability to stop the run win out?

--Jason "I agree that no one game should carry too much weight, but it is hard not to see this as a huge, huge game for Roof's future" Evans

A movable object vs a stoppable force. ;)

[CameronBlue]

A movable object vs a stoppable force. ;)

Oooohhh...Pithy humor from a Heel. Pretty funny.

[devildeac]

A movable object vs a stoppable force. ;)

Pretty funny (for a 'heel):) Stick around the DBR, hondo. As many of us here have said in the past, a well-thought out post/analysis/story/humorous jab from the too light shade of blue is always welcome here.

[JasonEvans]

Pretty funny (for a 'heel):) Stick around the DBR, hondo. As many of us here have said in the past, a well-thought out post/analysis/story/humorous jab from the too light shade of blue is always welcome here.

Hondo is the new Wheat///

Whatever happened to Wheat///??

-Jason "I miss Klemnop too!" Evans

[Cavlaw]

With Weiss at the helm, I'm not sure ND will be moving back towards the upper eschelon of CFB anytime soon. they shouldn't be *this* bad next year, but I don't expect them to be good, either.

[wilson]

BEAT THE irish!!!

[YmoBeThere]

Yeah, let's get it on! What, it's not in HD? Talk about no respect...

[4decadedukie]

Almost afraid to keep watching . . . both teams have lots of areas for improvement, but it's the end of the first quarter, and we're tied zero to zero. GO DEVILS.

[YmoBeThere]

It isn't pretty...try Snrubchat, it isn't better with a few others either.

[mcdukefan]

Is chat working? I can't seem to get it to open.

[YmoBeThere]

Snrubchat, yeah there are a few of us there

[mcdukefan]

Wish I could get there. IE and Mozilla Foxfire both give me the error page . . . can not display webpage.

[4decadedukie]

With 1:17 left in the half, ND converts a Duke fumble into seven.

[mcdukefan]

another fumble!!! Come on Duke . . .

[mcdukefan]

and now down 14-0

[formerdukeathlete]

Lewis fumble - and the momentum changed. We were playing well. Disheartening to the team. We had the ball with good field position after stopping ND going for it on 4th down. Defense is right back on the field. ND scores first td. Then we fumble, and ND scores another TD. This was not coaching. We were fairly well coached the first half. "Disaster striking late" When our players begin to make mistakes, then coaching comes into play. If we collapse after this, in the second half, without trying some changes on offense and defense, this will be attributable to coaching, IMHO.

Very disheartening for the team.

[willywoody]

this is embarrassing. the only good thing about this game is craig sager's getting his $2000 sport coat ruined.

[prefan21]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of multiple screen plays on our own 30, with less than 30 seconds to go in the half?

What was the strategy there?

[YmoBeThere]

We were playing well.
Not sure I agree, but we were playing well enough to be in the game.

[Devilsfan]

That said we're down 14-0. This is a winable game against an awful team. I don't believe that I'm even watching this game.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of multiple screen plays on our own 30, with less than 30 seconds to go in the half?

What was the strategy there?

We were trying to set up the draw plays we ran.

Time for Zack Asack to start the second half.

I have self redacted what I was really going to post.

[DUAA_shirt]

Don't be so sure, some media outlets have ND bringing in the #1 recruiting class in the country next year. That's kept Weis from all the talk about being fired for sure at the end of the season.

[johnb]

I've never seen a good offensive team try to wind down the half by throwing a high risk pass into the flat.

[devildeac]

It is UGLY in South Bend, folks. Hope the mods are getting well rested because if it continues in this manner, I fear the fire^&%$ floodgates will burst open and they will be VERY busy.(not a threat, just a premonition):(

[devildeac]

I've never seen a good offensive team try to wind down the half by throwing a high risk pass into the flat.

Now you have, oh wait a minute, we are not a good offensive team. It resembled the klempsun game-deja vu all over again.

[cspan37421]

I rarely get to see Duke FB on TV, but obviously the ND affords the chance. At half, I see nothing to pin on Roof. Players make plays, and coaches coach. Roof didn't cause those fumbles, that missed pass when Lewis stumbled but found a wide open receiver, the missed FG, etc.

The helmet-to-helmet penalty - that could go equally on the coaching staff, that was a very avoidable mistake. But ND has had even more such mistakes.

There's another half to play and although the last 2 min was deflating, I hope the guys know that they are playing well enough to be competitive. If only we could have capitalized on that ND bad snap on the punt. Maybe some breaks will go our way but right now I fail to see how THIS particular half can be laid at Roof's feet.

BTW, you throw screen plays to get 5-10 yards, out of bounds, or over the middle using your 2 timeouts, to try and get in FG position. For the most part we can't expect to rush it down their throat and score with under 2 to go. Long passes have low % completion. Nothing wrong with screen pass. Something's wrong, however, when a receiver lets go of the ball to keep his balance and knee up.

[dukie8]

I rarely get to see Duke FB on TV, but obviously the ND affords the chance. At half, I see nothing to pin on Roof. Players make plays, and coaches coach. Roof didn't cause those fumbles, that missed pass when Lewis stumbled but found a wide open receiver, the missed FG, etc.

The helmet-to-helmet penalty - that could go equally on the coaching staff, that was a very avoidable mistake. But ND has had even more such mistakes.

There's another half to play and although the last 2 min was deflating, I hope the guys know that they are playing well enough to be competitive. If only we could have capitalized on that ND bad snap on the punt. Maybe some breaks will go our way but right now I fail to see how THIS particular half can be laid at Roof's feet.

BTW, you throw screen plays to get 5-10 yards, out of bounds, or over the middle using your 2 timeouts, to try and get in FG position. For the most part we can't expect to rush it down their throat and score with under 2 to go. Long passes have low % completion. Nothing wrong with screen pass. Something's wrong, however, when a receiver lets go of the ball to keep his balance and knee up.

unless manning is your qb, coaches call plays. did you think that our last 3 plays of the first half were good? i cannot recall a worse 3 plays with a little over a minute left in a first half.

[devildeac]

We were trying to set up the draw plays we ran.

Time for Zack Asack to start the second half.

I have self redacted what I was really going to post.

You must have an incredible amount of self-discipline...

[phaedrus]

Don't worry guys, I just put on my Redick jersey. I think things are about to change.

[devildeac]

unless manning is your qb, coaches call plays. did you think that our last 3 plays of the first half were good? i cannot recall a worse 3 plays with a little over a minute left in a first half.

You must have missed the last 2 minutes or so vs klempsun...

[wilson]

unless manning is your qb, coaches call plays. did you think that our last 3 plays of the first half were good? i cannot recall a worse 3 plays with a little over a minute left in a first half.

Agreed. We are really, really bad in every phase of the game. Today we just happen to be doing it very publicly. Most of the failure to capitalize today has nothing to do with coaching, but you're right...that play-calling toward the end of the first half, resulting in an unbelievably (and to my mind, insurmountably) demoralizing turn of events was entirely attributable to the guys on the sidelines/upstairs.

[cspan37421]

OK, what plays would you have called? There's little time left in the half. You are unlikely to be able to run the ball for much, and there's not much time for it anyway. Would you have sat on it? Would you have tried a long bomb? Hindsight is 20/20 boys and I'm not impressed with your second-guessing.

[YmoBeThere]

Don't worry guys, I just put on my Redick jersey. I think things are about to change.

I was waiting until 0:54 seconds to go and put on my Williams jersey.

[cspan37421]

And BTW, that is horsepuckey that we're bad in every phase of the game. I think through about 28 min our defense had given up 0 points. So 0 points in 28 min is bad? And given the bad field position after that fumble, I wouldn't hold the second TD that much against them. Bad coverage (behind the receiver and never got in front despite the ball hanging up there) but it was a short field.

[wilson]

And BTW, that is horsepuckey that we're bad in every phase of the game. I think through about 28 min our defense had given up 0 points. So 0 points in 28 min is bad? And given the bad field position after that fumble, I wouldn't hold the second TD that much against them. Bad coverage (behind the receiver and never got in front despite the ball hanging up there) but it was a short field.

Notre Dame has the 112th-ranked passing offense and the 119th-ranked rushing offense in D-1 this year. 0 points in 28 minutes is of course not bad, but in this case, it is by no means an accomplishment.

[DUAA_shirt]

I watched this team in Durham through 4 quarters last week vs. GT. We're just not going to win any games with our now patented "3 and Out Offense."

[YmoBeThere]

I watched this team in Durham through 4 quarters last week vs. GT. We're just not going to win any games with our now patented "3 and Out Offense."As a patent holder, no matter how poorly our offense may perform, I don't think they are the first to come up with that particular intellectual property.

[dukie8]

OK, what plays would you have called? There's little time left in the half. You are unlikely to be able to run the ball for much, and there's not much time for it anyway. Would you have sat on it? Would you have tried a long bomb? Hindsight is 20/20 boys and I'm not impressed with your second-guessing.

you are 1-9, down 0-7 with a little over a minute left in the half and have a qb with a good arm. i would have thrown the ball downfield. standing at the line and running the play clock almost down to 0 so 3 plays took close to a minute was mindboggling. moreover, if roof were so inclined to run the clock out and head to the locker room down 0-7, then either run it up the gut 3 times or take a knee. dangerous screen passes with defenders all over the place had to have been the LAST plays i would have called (in addition to the draw play).

hindsight is 20/20? EVERYONE on the chat was absolutely dumbfounded over that playcalling. congratulations on being in the vast minority of people who thought that that is was just fine and dandy.

[wilson]

you are 1-9, down 0-7 with a little over a minute left in the half and have a qb with a good arm. i would have thrown the ball downfield. standing at the line and running the play clock almost down to 0 so 3 plays took close to a minute was mindboggling. moreover, if roof were so inclined to run the clock out and head to the locker room down 0-7, then either run it up the gut 3 times or take a knee. dangerous screen passes with defenders all over the place had to have been the LAST plays i would have called (in addition to the draw play).

hindsight is 20/20? EVERYONE on the chat was absolutely dumbfounded over that playcalling. congratulations on being in the vast minority of people who thought that that is was just fine and dandy.

Well said. I'm glad I'm not the only one fuming about such ineptitude.

[jimsumner]

"BTW, you throw screen plays to get 5-10 yards, out of bounds, or over the middle using your 2 timeouts, to try and get in FG position"

With all due respect, on the road and in the rain, FG position for Duke is about the other team's 15.

[DUAA_shirt]

I still don't see why we're calling short pass plays on 3rd and long.

[monkey]

then it feels like it's Super Bowl XX and we're the Patriots...

[prefan21]

Another TD... someone end this agony.

[DevilAlumna]

Change the Chan-nel (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

[monkey]

Change the Chan-nel (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

I had to shut it off myself. It just got too depressing

[RelativeWays]

Man, after all that optimism and close games at the beginning of this season , the rest really ended with a thud. I don't expect the UNC game next week to be any better. Yay basketball season.

[mcdukefan]

Zibakowski (sp?) throws punch? Duke gets penalty?

[prefan21]

Touchdown Asack!

[mcdukefan]

Duke Touchdown!!!!

[YmoBeThere]

Hard to make the case today that what we saw was progress.

[captmojo]

It's just sad.











There's only next week. They lost another heartbreaker :D today.

[RelativeWays]

Hard to make the case today that what we saw was progress.

Especially when the end result was exactly what everybody thought it would be before the season began. ND having a bad year? Doesn't matter.

[formerdukeathlete]

We were trying to set up the draw plays we ran.

Time for Zack Asack to start the second half.

I have self redacted what I was really going to post.

Lewis was playing poorly. And Asack, from my data points, looks better and better in practice.

Enter Asack on the last series of downs.

His FULL 3 inch height advantage is immediately apparently. He sees well down the field. And, his passes were more accurate.

That Roof waits so long to play someone who is actually a better qb in terms of helping us win, IMO, indicts his coaching ability.

Good to see Asack in there, really good.

[Devilsfan]

Zach looks like a D-1 qb; poised, confident, composed, unafraid. Nice job Asack!

[cspan37421]

That Roof waits so long to play someone who is actually a better qb in terms of helping us win, IMO, indicts his coaching ability.

Good to see Asack in there, really good.

What about Vaas, who is the QBs coach and offensive coordinator? Seems to me that Vaas is more likely to be making those judgments.

I don't think Thad threw very well (his numbers reminded me of Joey Harrington - as a Detroit Lion - averaging well under 10 yds per completion) - but did ND have their 1st team defense in there for Asack's TD? The comparison may not be apples-to-apples.

It would really help if we could rush the ball better. Maybe Spurrier didn't need that but since he's not walking through that door, this team does need a credible rushing game to set up the pass and keep the defense guessing.

[Bob Green]

Lewis was playing poorly. And Asack, from my data points, looks better and better in practice.

Enter Asack on the last series of downs.

His FULL 3 inch height advantage is immediately apparently. He sees well down the field. And, his passes were more accurate.

That Roof waits so long to play someone who is actually a better qb in terms of helping us win, IMO, indicts his coaching ability.

Good to see Asack in there, really good.

T. Lewis was 16/33 121 yds 3.7 yds per attempt. Z. Asack was 2/5 17 yds 3.4 yds per attempt. I don't see any appreciable difference, though Asack did run for a score against ND reserves.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I liked the uniforms. I thought that the Devils looked good in them.

GO DUKE!

[RelativeWays]

Hmmmm... I'm thinking maybe they should switch to a royal blue helmet with a black "D" with white trim.

[grossbus]

how about something in actual Duke blue...


my single observation is that this team did not look well coached. it appeared to me that they did not have the right cleats. they tackled poorly. they made lots of mistakes.

they played hard, but there were too many fundamental errors for me to reach any other conclusion than there are coaching problems.

[watzone]

There is no sugar coating the fact that Duke is not showing any progress. Northewestern missed an opportunity to score on the last play of the game. Had that not happened, Duke would be 0-11.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

There is no sugar coating the fact that Duke is not showing any progress. Northewestern missed an opportunity to score on the last play of the game. Had that not happened, Duke would be 0-11.

In my opinion, we made progress for several games and have regressed the last 5, putting us about where we started - not very good. Not what I had hoped for.

[dukerev]

Living in SEC-land, this was the first time I've seen Duke play on TV since graduating in '97. It obviously wasn't worth the wait. It seems evident that our talent level is ridiculously low. On defense it appeared that we had 3-4 genuine ACC caliber players and on offense, a few good wideouts, a learning QB and not much else. Listening on radio/internet really doesn't give you the appreciation for how far Duke has to go to simply have an opportunity to beat another D-I team playing well. Notre Dame is horrible. Horrible. On top of that, they played poorly and are clearly poorly coached and undisciplined. They stopped themselves as much as we stopped them. And on offense we couldn't generate any rythym. Sadly, I have no suggestions. But if this is "progress" from four years ago then I don't want to know what it looked like then.

[Kewlswim]

Living in SEC-land, this was the first time I've seen Duke play on TV since graduating in '97. It obviously wasn't worth the wait. It seems evident that our talent level is ridiculously low. On defense it appeared that we had 3-4 genuine ACC caliber players and on offense, a few good wideouts, a learning QB and not much else. Listening on radio/internet really doesn't give you the appreciation for how far Duke has to go to simply have an opportunity to beat another D-I team playing well. Notre Dame is horrible. Horrible. On top of that, they played poorly and are clearly poorly coached and undisciplined. They stopped themselves as much as we stopped them. And on offense we couldn't generate any rythym. Sadly, I have no suggestions. But if this is "progress" from four years ago then I don't want to know what it looked like then.

Hi,

Our athletes might in fact be sub-par, but I think the coaching is so poor it is hard to tell. This was worse than I could have possibly imagined--and I could imagine pretty bad. Sigh. double Sigh. I really did think we would have a better showing than this. :-(

GO DUKE!

[Lavabe]

In my opinion, we made progress for several games and have regressed the last 5, putting us about where we started - not very good. Not what I had hoped for.

Is this a paradigm shift?:eek:

Cheers,
Lavabe

[dukerev]

Perhaps it is because I am used to watching (and rooting for) the Razorbacks and thus generally spend three hours working towards my first stroke because of atrocious play calling, but I didn't think that it was the play-calling that cost Duke the game today. It was unimaginative, but that is to be expected with a young-ish offensive team (other than the line) on the road in the rain. The end of the first half was questionable, but it was fumbles, not play-calling that turned the momentum (I think). In hindsight, it would have behooved us to run a few more draws in the first half and perhaps gone downfield a couple more times. I'm not trying to defend Roof; I think the coaching was poor...but there's a lot more to coaching than play-calling.

[formerdukeathlete]

T. Lewis was 16/33 121 yds 3.7 yds per attempt. Z. Asack was 2/5 17 yds 3.4 yds per attempt. I don't see any appreciable difference, though Asack did run for a score against ND reserves.

Bob, Were you able to watch the game? Zach had one 20 yard pass almost
umbelievably dropped - perfectly, accurately thrown - right on the money. All of Zach passes were pretty much right there, whereas, many of Lewis' passes were not, not close to being there.

re the squads - the ND second string defensive line is lightening quick. We had a couple OL second stringers in there on the Asack serices. Asack was not even remotely close to being sacked. Mobility is the key.

Asack also did not telegraph (to the ND defense) where he was throwing.

[dukerev]

...that if this is the Super Bowl then this is any early 90s Super Bowl and we are the Bills (except for the game against the Giants).

[Bob Green]

Bob, Were you able to watch the game?

No. Armed Forces TV did not air the game. I listen to the ND radio broadcast over the internet.

[Thunderdunk]

Today's game against ND once again demonstrates Duke has little interest in a winning football future. More important to the administration, and athletics department, is the $$$ brought to the university by scheduling the likes of Alabama and ND while knowingly supporting a failed football program.

My heartfelt thanks to the guys who suited up today, and every Saturday this season, and played to the best of their abilities.

[rsvman]

I don't think it is a lack of athletes. The offense has no variety, no subtlety. It's hike the ball to the quarterback, who hands it to the running back, who runs into the left side of the line. Lather, rinse, repeat. No fakes, no play-actions, no inkling of an attempt to deceive the defense. (At least that's the way it looked to ME; I only watched a little more than a quarter; couldn't take it.)

[DU82]

Bob, Were you able to watch the game? Zach had one 20 yard pass almost
umbelievably dropped - perfectly, accurately thrown - right on the money. All of Zach passes were pretty much right there, whereas, many of Lewis' passes were not, not close to being there.

re the squads - the ND second string defensive line is lightening quick. We had a couple OL second stringers in there on the Asack serices. Asack was not even remotely close to being sacked. Mobility is the key.

Asack also did not telegraph (to the ND defense) where he was throwing.

The pass you mention, if it's the one I'm thinking of, was thrown behind the receiver, not really catchable. Your angle on that play was much worse, I would have to believe, than ours, even high up in the stadium.

A couple of overall notes from the game.

Mr. Equipment Manager, what type of shoes did the team have today? Too many slips and falls.

The first quarter took forever, penalties appeared to win over TV timeouts. (When it's cold and rainy, you dread the TV timeouts!)

Neither team had anything, two missed field goals, until we gave them the game at the end of the first half. I have to add to the questions about the offensive play calling (and Jim Summer, you are correct, our range on field goals wasn't very far today.) A bunch of naked screen passes is the best I can describe a few of them.

Lewis seems to be going backwards from earlier this year. He doesn't look off his primary receiver very often which allows the defense to key on one receiver. He missed his throws a lot, either overthrowing the long passes, or on the shorter routes, throwing into the ground or behind the receivers too many times. Asack drove the team down field against their second team and senior walkons (I was wondering where Rudy was) but did look a little better than Lewis.

Notre Dame's fans and officials (parking lot attendants, stadium folks) were absolutely the most polite, nicest group I've seen at an away game for us since at least the last time I was at Navy (a couple of seasons ago.) Even in a down year, with ugly weather, it was a football-party atmosphere.

And...the bathrooms were clean and warm.

[mjones723]

It should be over..thank god.

[Carlos]

No. Armed Forces TV did not air the game. I listen to the ND radio broadcast over the internet.

Actually, AFTV did carry the game but they only showed it in Gitmo. They're going to make the detainees watch it over and over again until someone at the UN finds out.

Easily the worst game ever shown in high def.

[JasonEvans]

Easily the worst game ever shown in high def.

True story--

My kids (2 boys, 10 and 8) think that the new 56-inch HDTV we bought a month ago is their set and I do let them watch what they want on it when I am not watching sports or a DVD on it. Anyway, I stole the set from them yesterday to watch the Duke game and they stuck around and were watching it with me.

I often tell them, while watching sports, "look at the blades of grass... look at the faces of the crowd... look at the raindrops... doesn't HDTV make everything look better??!?!" It has become like a mantra in our house, "everything looks better on HDTV..."

So, as the 1st half was winding down and I had my head buried in my hands, my older son says, "Daddy, HDTV doesn't make Duke look any better."

Yeah, it was an obvious joke, but coming from a 10-year-old it just made me howl with laughter.

--Jason "wow, both of those teams looked just dreadful yesterday" Evans

[OZZIE4DUKE]

True story--

my older son says, "Daddy, HDTV doesn't make Duke look any better."



Yeah, I came to the same conclusion.

I have a new optimistic outlook, but the mods won't let me talk about it until after next Saturday.......

[Lavabe]

Yeah, I came to the same conclusion.

I have a new optimistic outlook, but the mods won't let me talk about it until after next Saturday.......

Glad to hear about a new optimistic look ... I feared we had indeed seen a change of paradigm.

Jason: Dare I ask ... will the last game of the season be on TV here in Atlanta?

Cheers,
Lavabe

[Devilsfan]

We made progress. But when your best players go down with injuries and they're relied on so much in our scheme, yesterday is the result. Also someone said there is no appreciable difference between the qbs. I beg to differ. They're both talented, but one seems scared to death in the pocket and seems to go down or drop the ball at the sight of onrushing defenders too often vs. taking off and running. Maybe he's the smarter of the two for this but I like to see soldiers not afraid of getting hit.
Yesterday was hard even for a diehard Duke fan to watch.
Hope we regroup and win next week. It would be a great way to end.

[ArnieMc]

Did anyone see Roof's expression at the end of the first half? It seemed to be a combination of resignation, despair, and hopelessness. Seeing that, I gave up, and I'm right up there with Ozzie.

[cspan37421]

Ohio State had cleat issues too this weekend. Of all the things that the staff is taking lumps for this weekend, they have good company on that one.

[SilkyJ]

The first quarter took forever, penalties appeared to win over TV timeouts. (When it's cold and rainy, you dread the TV timeouts!)

Lewis seems to be going backwards from earlier this year. He doesn't look off his primary receiver very often which allows the defense to key on one receiver. He missed his throws a lot, either overthrowing the long passes, or on the shorter routes, throwing into the ground or behind the receivers too many times. Asack drove the team down field against their second team and senior walkons (I was wondering where Rudy was) but did look a little better than Lewis.

And...the bathrooms were clean and warm.

yea we were there, the weather was absolutely miserable.

I agree about lewis looking off. he throws to eron riley every friggin time til they start doubling him. and even then he does it sometimes


Actually, AFTV did carry the game but they only showed it in Gitmo. They're going to make the detainees watch it over and over again until someone at the UN finds out.

Easily the worst game ever shown in high def.

potd!!

also, with my dad having been lucky enough to snag tickets from a ND friend we were in the 2nd row and i could see the field quite well and I have to tell you the field was not in great shape. cheerleaders/managers running across field and the end zone in particular during timeouts were slipping. and they werent trying to make cuts.

there cheerleaders were also hotter than our cheerleaders. and it wasnt that close. and the ones in front of me were the B squad I was told.

is that on the HPR? can it go on?

[SharkD]

I watched this team in Durham through 4 quarters last week vs. GT. We're just not going to win any games with our now patented "3 and Out Offense."

Actually, Bob Harris used to refer to it as the "Can-Can" Offense during the later days of the Goldsmith era: "1... 2... 3... Kick!"

[Highlander]

Actually, Bob Harris used to refer to it as the "Can-Can" Offense during the later days of the Goldsmith era: "1... 2... 3... Kick!"

I liked the description from the DUMBook, which said something to the effect of "Goldsmith changed up Duke's offensive strategy by going from the repetative boring play, boring play, boring play, punt offense of Barry Wilson to the creative boring play, boring play, punt offense sure to win the hearts and minds of the Duke faithful."

I also remember us playing Tennessee or FSU maybe my sophomore year, and watching the game in my RA's room. Duke recovered a fumble in scoring position, and my RA responded with "you guys should just go ahead and kick a FG before you fumble it back." Sure enough, we fumbled on third down.

Ah, Goldsmith and the quick kick....

[Mal]

It's taken me 10 minutes to write even a very brief post on this game, due to feer of violating the "if you can't say something nice..." rule. So, I'll leave it at this:

That was severely disappointing.

[johnb]

While I couldn't believe how bad it was, I can also imagine that the players--who had presumably been looking forward to a nationally-televised game since it was announced--must be really bummed that their opportunity on the national stage was marred by conditions that led them to look less athletic than they actually are. It really did look like they were running in slo-mo, and that kind of sucks.

[Lavabe]

It's taken me 10 minutes to write even a very brief post on this game, due to feer of violating the "if you can't say something nice..." rule. So, I'll leave it at this:

That was severely disappointing.

You're not the only one. I have redacted myself several times.

Which reminds me Jason, will the movie review of "Redacted" appear in the off-topic board, or the public policy netherworld?

Cheers,
Lavabe

[bdh21]

"Goldsmith changed up Duke's offensive strategy by going from the repetative boring play, boring play, boring play, punt offense of Barry Wilson to the creative boring play, boring play, punt offense sure to win the hearts and minds of the Duke faithful."

Ahhh, the good ol' "Dive...Dive...Quick Kick" offense...