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Skitzle
11-10-2007, 09:43 PM
Don't know if anyone saw the "Top Moments in Last Years College Basketball Season" highlight (It was on at halftime during the Marquette IUPUI game).

The very first 1st clip. Shows Duke getting beaten/McRoberts crying on the bench with a voice over of "Not Ranked for the first time in 200..."

3rd clip. Henderson smacking Hasborough in the face.

No mention or sign of Duke after.


Sigh...

JasonEvans
11-10-2007, 10:35 PM
Wanna know what is means to be the biggest, baddest, best team on the block?

When you have a down season, it is HUGE news.

I didn't notice anyone talking endlessly or showing non-stop highlites of UConn's many losses last season. They were muuuuch worse than Duke and it was not even a story. Kentucky has been as bad as we were last year several times in recent seasons and it is not news. The only team in the nation who makes news for being good-but-not-great the way we were last year was UNC in the "lost year" under Doh. I don't think even they got as much pub as we did and they were faaar worse than we were.

We rock. We dominate. We ARE COLLEGE BASKETBALL.

So when we have a good-but-not-great season, expect to hear a lot about it.

Oh, and I'll pretty much guarantee you won't see Duke low-lights like that again anytime soon.

--Jason "its good to be the king (http://faultgame.com/images/goodking.wav)" Evans

DukeCO2009
11-10-2007, 10:58 PM
Wanna know what is means to be the biggest, baddest, best team on the block?

When you have a down season, it is HUGE news.

I didn't notice anyone talking endlessly or showing non-stop highlites of UConn's many losses last season. They were muuuuch worse than Duke and it was not even a story. Kentucky has been as bad as we were last year several times in recent seasons and it is not news. The only team in the nation who makes news for being good-but-not-great the way we were last year was UNC in the "lost year" under Doh. I don't think even they got as much pub as we did and they were faaar worse than we were.

We rock. We dominate. We ARE COLLEGE BASKETBALL.

So when we have a good-but-not-great season, expect to hear a lot about it.

Oh, and I'll pretty much guarantee you won't see Duke low-lights like that again anytime soon.

--Jason "its good to be the king (http://faultgame.com/images/goodking.wav)" Evans

Quoted for truth. Don't listen to ESPN--go Devils.

mepanchin
11-11-2007, 01:45 AM
And UConn is still terrible...

but no pundits are talking about it

Cameron
11-11-2007, 02:51 AM
Beautifully put, Jason. And Carolina was 8 and 20 that season. Yikes!

We Are Duke

...and everyone hates it.

_Gary
11-11-2007, 09:46 AM
But the original point has merit. UConn had a very strong run for a few years, winning two championships in a short span. Yet nothing of their dismal season. Same with Kentucky. Same with UNC (I don't remember ESPN ever piling on UNC the year they were down). Only Duke gets that type of treatment.

Jason says it's all about Duke being King. I say it's half that, and half internal bias at ESPN because they are loaded with Duke haters to begin with. Sure, if we had multiple bad seasons the hate would let up a little. But let's not kid ourselves. This is about more than Duke dominance producing hatred. As I said, that is undoubtedly a part of the equation. But it's not the entire truth. This is also about pure and unadulterated bias in it's most blatant form.

Gary

mapei
11-11-2007, 10:23 AM
I think that's just ridiculous. Nobody roots for Goliath. We've been Goliath for a long time. espn has given us tons of favorable coverage over the years, which plays no small part in why the rest of the country hates us so much.

JasonEvans
11-11-2007, 10:29 AM
Who are the most prominent college basketball voices on ESPN. At a bare minimum, you have to say that Dickie V and Jay Bilas are in the top 3, if not the top 2.

I have a hard time believing in any anti-Duke ESPN bias while those two are the poster children for ESPN's basketball coverage.

I have not looked, but it is a pretty safe bet that we are skedded to be on ESPN more than any other team in the land this season... like we usually are.

-Jason "just because Stuart Scott went to Carolina and ESPN is based in Bristol, there is not an anti-Duke bias there" Evans

dw0827
11-11-2007, 12:15 PM
I live in the midwest, and primarily because of ESPN, I am able to watch Duke play on TV almost every game. There are maybe three games all year that aren't televised . .

Talk is cheap . . . the talking heads can say whatever they want about Duke . . . sticks and stones and all that . . . but what really matters, whats really important is the fact that ESPN wants Duke on TV because thats how they get ratings and sell ad time and make money.

Everything else is drivel.

Cameron
11-11-2007, 12:39 PM
ESPN is Duke's Basketball Network. Much like NBC is Notre Dame's, except our agreement isn't as formal. We don't have EVERY game televised by the network, but we do have 15 scheduled games on ESPN (plus a possible two more in Maui and then in the ACC Tournament), which is more than any other team in the nation (pretty positive on that).

Personally, I think it's funny when fans of UK and Carolina complain that "DSPN" shows too many Blue Devil games. It just shows their inferiority complex with us. And, no matter what they tell you, they have it. Look at both schools' boards. I mean Kentucky has K hating threads running 24/7 (their hate for '92 is just so pathetic) and IC usually has ten "D**K S*cks" subjects going at all times. It's ridiculous.

Then look at our boards, both here and on Devil's Den. We rarely, if ever, care to comment on the commonwealth of Kentucky and, in most cases, you won't find too many Carolina threads, either. Why? Because we are Duke. We aren't jealous of other programs and what they've accomplished because we are the standard in college basketball. Last season's "horrible, completely downtrodden debacle" that was a 22-win season aside (don't you love our "horrible" season consisting of 14 more wins than UNC's:)), we still are at the top. People hate us. We are right up their with Notre Dame in football (or at least where they were when they were on top). After some of the scores we have been putting up here early and how well our new freshman class is playing, along with proven guys like Scheyer, Henderson, Thomas, and Nelson, I generally think Duke Hater's are scared. I can sense it on some of the other boards. They have no idea what's about to hit 'em, either;)

And it's a place I love:)

Channing
11-11-2007, 12:43 PM
ESPN is
Then look at our boards, both here and on Devil's Den. We rarely, if ever, care to comment on the commonwealth of Kentucky and, in most cases, you won't find too many Carolina threads, either.

And it's a place I love:)

You are correct to a point. If there is ever a discussion on BBQ Kentucky is generally a large part of the discussion ... but thats about it!

Indoor66
11-11-2007, 02:22 PM
You are correct to a point. If there is ever a discussion on BBQ Kentucky is generally a large part of the discussion ... but thats about it!

Kentucky BBQ is a FRAUD. :mad:

_Gary
11-11-2007, 04:07 PM
Who are the most prominent college basketball voices on ESPN. At a bare minimum, you have to say that Dickie V and Jay Bilas are in the top 3, if not the top 2.

I have a hard time believing in any anti-Duke ESPN bias while those two are the poster children for ESPN's basketball coverage.

I have not looked, but it is a pretty safe bet that we are skedded to be on ESPN more than any other team in the land this season... like we usually are.

-Jason "just because Stuart Scott went to Carolina and ESPN is based in Bristol, there is not an anti-Duke bias there" Evans

How many times do we have to keep going over this? The reason ESPN airs our games so much is because we bring them money. It's NOT because they love us! The reality is we are easily the most hated college basketball team on the face of the earth and people love to root against us. So it only makes financial sense for them to broadcast our games. You can't use that as a sign they love us, or even like us, as a whole (except as cash cows).

Dickie V has been great to us, but he's also great to UNC and other big name schools, so that's a wash as far as I'm concerned. And I love Jay B. as much as the next guy, but come on. Surely you aren't pointing to him as a guy that gives a bunch of love to Duke? Inside yes. But not while commentating. If anything, many of us feel Jay goes too far to the other extreme so as not to appear like a homer.

Bottom line is this: When I talk about an anti-Duke bias at ESPN I'm not talking about the corporate heads who make the big decisions on what is and isn't shown on tv. I'm talking about the newsroom (the domain of guys like Stuart "I'm a Duke hater" Scott). Not sure who it was, but a couple of years ago someone here shared with me privately that they had a contact that worked behind the scenes at ESPN. And that person said there definitely was an anti-Duke attitude in that newsroom. So you guys can say what you want, but I'm not buying that there isn't at least a slight bias amongst those guys. No way, no how. This goes to the article from the front page shortly after our ousting from the tournament last year. Remember the huge scream that went up from the press room in the arena after we lost last year. It's there guys, whether you want to believe it or not.

Gary

_Gary
11-11-2007, 04:51 PM
Perhaps a second reading of this excellent article is appropriate here.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=22259


Gary

micah75
11-11-2007, 05:02 PM
Didn't ESPN have some kind on-line poll a while back, multiple choice, asking people to vote as to which was more satisfying, watching JJ cry, or the LAX scandal? Sorry, don't remember exactly how it was worded. But apparently there are some people behind the scenes there who hate Duke.

At any rate, I'm grateful to ESPN for televising our games, whatever their motive, which obviously has to be due to ratings. What's the trade-off, that no one hates Duke and as a result, we don't get televised every week? Myself, I'd rather watch the games. Bring it on!

Jumbo
11-11-2007, 05:04 PM
How many times do we have to keep going over this? The reason ESPN airs our games so much is because we bring them money. It's NOT because they love us! The reality is we are easily the most hated college basketball team on the face of the earth and people love to root against us. So it only makes financial sense for them to broadcast our games. You can't use that as a sign they love us, or even like us, as a whole (except as cash cows).

Dickie V has been great to us, but he's also great to UNC and other big name schools, so that's a wash as far as I'm concerned. And I love Jay B. as much as the next guy, but come on. Surely you aren't pointing to him as a guy that gives a bunch of love to Duke? Inside yes. But not while commentating. If anything, many of us feel Jay goes too far to the other extreme so as not to appear like a homer.

Bottom line is this: When I talk about an anti-Duke bias at ESPN I'm not talking about the corporate heads who make the big decisions on what is and isn't shown on tv. I'm talking about the newsroom (the domain of guys like Stuart "I'm a Duke hater" Scott). Not sure who it was, but a couple of years ago someone here shared with me privately that they had a contact that worked behind the scenes at ESPN. And that person said there definitely was an anti-Duke attitude in that newsroom. So you guys can say what you want, but I'm not buying that there isn't at least a slight bias amongst those guys. No way, no how. This goes to the article from the front page shortly after our ousting from the tournament last year. Remember the huge scream that went up from the press room in the arena after we lost last year. It's there guys, whether you want to believe it or not.

Gary

Who cares? Seriously, who the heck cares? Even if there is bias -- and I'm not convinced there is -- what does it matter? Tune out what you don't like, develop some thick skin, and get over it.

Indoor66
11-11-2007, 05:08 PM
Who cares? Seriously, who the heck cares? Even if there is bias -- and I'm not convinced there is -- what does it matter? Tune out what you don't like, develop some thick skin, and get over it.

You have hit it. Who the heck are they except a bunch of commentators with too much time to fill. They try to create controversy for their own ratings. They are like the trolls who come on this board and attempt to stir the pot. Ignore them - they are jerks.

Lulu
11-11-2007, 05:22 PM
As long as people are talking about Duke, and in turn increasing the profitability of airing Duke games on national TV, I don't really care what they say. Sure, I have a slight preference for favorable commentary, but if it takes hating to make sure I get to watch, let them hate. I think I'd rather be hated and on TV than loved and unable to watch. Indifference would be the worst.

JasonEvans
11-11-2007, 05:31 PM
If it matters, I know for a fact that there are several Duke fans and graduates who work as producers, writers, and other stuff (aside from Jay being on-air) at ESPN. While there may be some folks who enjoy our troubles, there are also certainly some folks who support and admire Duke.

--Jason "this whole discussion feels silly in a conspiracy theory sorta way" Evans

captmojo
11-11-2007, 05:39 PM
There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

I would like to see Jay Bilas call Kenny Smith a "Hole Boy".

cajundevil74
11-11-2007, 08:19 PM
I think ESPN does have an anti-Duke bias and using the argument that ESPN, in fact, likes Duke because Duke always plays on the channel and Jay Bilas works for them is not very compelling.

A5fter years of success - essentially, being royalty in college basketball - and I assume enjoying high TV ratings, why would ESPN not televise Duke? In fact, ESPN would not be acting in it's best interest if they did not televise Duke.

Secondly, Jay Bilas bends over backwards to criticize Duke and compliment UNC at every opportunity in order to show he is not a 'homer'.

So why does ESPN have an anti-Duke bias? Well, my evidence is 100% anecdotal, however at every opportunity ESPN seems to show Duke at its worst. For instance, after our 65 point drubbing of NCCU, the only thing ESPN could post to the front page of the Men's CBB page was a headline that read, "Duke tweaks ticket system to fill student section." There are dozens of more examples, including persisting with the 'Duke gets all the calls' b.s. at every chance they got.

_Gary
11-11-2007, 09:20 PM
Who cares? Seriously, who the heck cares? Even if there is bias -- and I'm not convinced there is -- what does it matter? Tune out what you don't like, develop some thick skin, and get over it.

Of course you'd say that, Jumbo. I've come to expect nothing less. And while my world doesn't turn on the issue, I'll give you three reasons I think it is important.

1) There's a little thing called journalistic integrity. Ever heard of it? I'd hope so, and I'd have thought that of all people here you'd consider that factor alone as important. *If* there is bias in the newsroom, even with things as inconsequential as sporting events (we all know they don't compare to other more pressing concerns in the world), it's a problem. Maybe minor, but still a problem.

2) Bias of this type rubs off on the masses. I'm frankly sick and tired of hearing how Duke gets all the breaks, or how the refs favor Duke all the time. It just flat out gets old. Some ribbing when you like a team at the top is expected. But the crap many of us Duke fans have taken over the last several years is beyond the pale - and I think there's a direct link between the hatred from the masses and the biased commentary we constantly have to hear.

3) There can eventually be a very negative effect on the games themselves when the perception is that Duke gets all the calls. This can play on the refs and I actually think we've seen a few instances where we were the recipients of bad calls because the refs went too far in the other direction. And again, the biased reporting can contribute.

So there are some reasons all of us should be at least slightly concerned with bias. In this case it's not the end of the world or anything. And for the most part I really don't care one way or the other. But to completely brush it aside in the way you ask is a bit simplistic and shortsighted, IMHO.

Gary

Jumbo
11-11-2007, 09:50 PM
Of course you'd say that, Jumbo. I've come to expect nothing less.
I have no idea what that means.


1) There's a little thing called journalistic integrity. Ever heard of it?
Indeed, I have.


I'd hope so, and I'd have thought that of all people here you'd consider that factor alone as important.
Indeed, I do believe it is important.


*If* there is bias in the newsroom, even with things as inconsequential as sporting events (we all know they don't compare to other more pressing concerns in the world), it's a problem. Maybe minor, but still a problem.

This is the key point. We don't know if there is bias. A lot of the stuff that people complain about is really, really minor. I'm sure there are Duke fans and Duke haters in every newsroom. People are human. Political reporters vote. Health care reporters have insurance. Sports reporters grew up with favorite teams. As long as it doesn't manifest itself strongly in their work, it's not a problem. And I watch ESPN all the time and really don't see the type of bias others claim exists there. Non-Duke fans think ESPN loves Duke. Duke fans think ESPN hates Duke. That probably means ESPN is doing a pretty good job. I think ESPN is guilty -- like every other entity -- of hyping big news too much. Duke happens to be big news, so when something happens, it feels like people are piling on. But I think it's just more a reflection of the collective consciousness -- fact is, people are interested in Duke. And that leads to lots of hype both ways.


2) Bias of this type rubs off on the masses. I'm frankly sick and tired of hearing how Duke gets all the breaks, or how the refs favor Duke all the time. It just flat out gets old. Some ribbing when you like a team at the top is expected. But the crap many of us Duke fans have taken over the last several years is beyond the pale - and I think there's a direct link between the hatred from the masses and the biased commentary we constantly have to hear.

I think it's the other way around. I think the masses rub off on the media, in this regard. When people make a big enough deal out of something, it becomes news. Sadly, the officiating B.S. has fallen into that category. But I don't think Duke fans have "taken crap" from the media over the years, and I also think whatever crap has been taken can be dished out 10-fold. That's what I mean about developing a bit of thick skin.


3) There can eventually be a very negative effect on the games themselves when the perception is that Duke gets all the calls. This can play on the refs and I actually think we've seen a few instances where we were the recipients of bad calls because the refs went too far in the other direction. And again, the biased reporting can contribute.
I don't buy that. I'm sorry.

mapei
11-11-2007, 10:57 PM
I really think the hate-Duke thing (which I, too, find very frustrating) has been a grassroots-driven thing, not a media thing. Have the media picked up on it? Sure. But I don't find espn anywhere near the worst offenders.

throatybeard
11-12-2007, 10:29 AM
Kentucky BBQ is a FRAUD. :mad:

There's Mutton like it!

I move that we merge all 2007-08 complaining about ESPN into this thread, in order to avoid 64 more threads like it.

-jk
11-12-2007, 10:36 AM
I move that we merge all 2007-08 complaining about ESPN into this thread, in order to avoid 64 more threads like it.

I second it! Any nays?

-jk

CDu
11-12-2007, 10:53 AM
The start of this thread is absurd, in my opinion.

For one thing, the Duke upset was the biggest upset (in terms of seed comparison) in the entire tournament this year. And because Duke has been so good so long, it's big news. And the elbow to Hansbrough's face was a HUGE story. Aside from that, what great moments did you expect to get from Duke in a down year? If I had to pick the three most prevalent moments from our season last year, I'd say they were the crazy Clemson game clock thing, the Henderson elbow/forearm, and the early exit in the ACC and NCAA tournaments. So in that regard, ESPN got it right.

ArtVandelay
11-12-2007, 12:14 PM
I think Jumbo pretty much nailed it in terms of how there are any number of factors that cause ESPN to report on sports the way it does. I happen to think they often to a pretty bad job of it, but it's way too simplistic to say there's some sort of odd bias in favor or against a particular team. I also find it amusing that Duke fans seem to think there's an anti-Duke bias and Duke haters think ESPN has a gigantic man-crush on each and every Duke player ever.

At the same time, while I think there are very rational explanations for why ESPN does what it does, I do think they are partly "to blame," insofar as they certainly play a role in shaping people's opinions (regardless of whether you fault them). I actually happen to think that the amount of attention Duke receives in the media IS a reason why people dislike Duke. I find that very often in sports when you engage someone in a conversation about why they hate x team/player, very often what comes up is how "overrated" they are in the media, how the media spends way too much time covering them, etc. This criticism is made about Duke VERY often. You can point out all you want that this is something beyond that team or player's control; people still have the visceral reaction, and it can be very hard to change that.

dukestheheat
11-12-2007, 05:12 PM
Skitzle-

Also remember that money makes a lot of the world go around, and Duke is the prime school out there for basketball that helps ESPN make the cash.

We are a virtual money machine for them.

They sit around and think of ways that they can make cash of of ANYthing related to Duke.

You and I would do the same thing if we ran the show at ESPN.

dth.

sandinmyshoes
11-12-2007, 06:37 PM
It was a joke about The Devils Den not having many UNC threads, wasn't it? And while not on this board, I recall the DBR front page having a virtual thread of its own as UK went down to Garner-Webb.

Thank goodness Duke fans do not have the numbers that the public schools have, or I fear our boards would be just like their boards.

I think too that it will be good if the Devils make a good run this year. I get the feeling that a lot of Duke fans are blustering out of insecurity. Not something I have been used to the last ten years or so.

_Gary
11-12-2007, 06:48 PM
This is the key point. We don't know if there is bias. A lot of the stuff that people complain about is really, really minor. I'm sure there are Duke fans and Duke haters in every newsroom. People are human. Political reporters vote. Health care reporters have insurance. Sports reporters grew up with favorite teams. As long as it doesn't manifest itself strongly in their work, it's not a problem. And I watch ESPN all the time and really don't see the type of bias others claim exists there. Non-Duke fans think ESPN loves Duke. Duke fans think ESPN hates Duke. That probably means ESPN is doing a pretty good job. I think ESPN is guilty -- like every other entity -- of hyping big news too much. Duke happens to be big news, so when something happens, it feels like people are piling on. But I think it's just more a reflection of the collective consciousness -- fact is, people are interested in Duke. And that leads to lots of hype both ways.

Then we just see things differently. But let the record show that I'm not the only one to believe there's some inordinate bias against Duke in the ESPN newsroom. Admittedly most of the evidence is anecdotal, but it's not just one or two isolated incidents. Again, I'd refer you back to the article written earlier this year by DBR.

And here's the point I don't think you are getting. We both agree that bias is somewhat inherent within all of us as human beings. Yet somehow you are unwilling to believe that it's manifest in a significant way at ESPN. Don't guys like Stuart Scott manifest it in very obvious ways to you? Because they sure do in my eyes. And my contention goes way beyond the boundaries at ESPN. I still think Packer's comments in the 2001 title game were the big catalyst, and I just can't believe you'd think he was saying what he was as an unbiased commentator. Surely you have to admit he was motivated by at least a little dislike of Duke. Yet those comments helped feed the fire and things, on a national level, have never been the same since. Again, you've surely got to agree with me on that point.



I think it's the other way around. I think the masses rub off on the media, in this regard. When people make a big enough deal out of something, it becomes news. Sadly, the officiating B.S. has fallen into that category. But I don't think Duke fans have "taken crap" from the media over the years, and I also think whatever crap has been taken can be dished out 10-fold. That's what I mean about developing a bit of thick skin.

We just disagree here. I have no problem saying it's a little of both. But no way is reporting exclusively about presenting what's already there. The media is a powerful thing and I'm of the opinion is does help shape the thinking of the masses. If you don't see that then we are just on different ends of the spectrum. Because there is zero doubt in my mind about that.



I don't buy that. I'm sorry.

And again, I don't agree with you. I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or even a conscious thing. I'm talking about the unconscious pressure that can be exerted on refs when they hear about something over and over and over. They are human, and it's not that hard to believe they couldn't be influenced on an subconscious level. I believe, for instance, the entire issue with the ACC suspending the one reffing crew was a direct result of all the fuss that the media put up about Duke "getting all the calls." No doubt that played a part in their decision. So it can have an effect on things. That's my point.


Gary

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 01:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=6&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos2

"The Blue Devils only play two games in four weeks. Fortunately, one of those is next Thursday against Pitt at Cameron Square Garden [emphasis added]. That should be a good test, as the Devils will have to deal with an elite offensive rebounding team."

Sorry we can fill up the garden and make lots of money for you espn. jerks.

rockymtn devil
12-14-2007, 02:07 PM
I don't see this as a snipe. Like you said, Duke can fill the Garden with a large, pro-Duke crowd and ESPN's writers are aware of that. I know there's been a lot of talk about this recently, but taking this as a knock to Duke basketball is being a little too sensitive, IMO. I certainly don't think it rises to the level of ESPN being "jerks".

As for the substance, #5 seems about right thus far. The Devils have definitely looked better than Gtown, and I'd say it's fair to put Carolina, Memphis, Texas, and Kansas ahead of us right now.

BoC
12-14-2007, 02:10 PM
I thought it was pretty funny.

elvis14
12-14-2007, 02:14 PM
I think it's an insult to CIS. Just because we play often at MSG and we play well there and have fans there does not mean it's anything like playing in CIS.

BTW, I started to read the user comments and quickly had to stop because there's just so much Duke hate and ignorance.

mr. synellinden
12-14-2007, 02:32 PM
For what it's worth, Gottlieb has us #2, so does Fraschilla.

Bilas and Vitale have us #7.

allenmurray
12-14-2007, 02:46 PM
Wouldn't have been nice if they had said:

The Blue Devils, wanting to make sure their students have time to study for their exams and spend holiday time with their families, only play two games in four weeks.

It would be more true to what college athletics should be if all teams only were playing a couple of games in this period. Because the players are students they need time for school work. Because they are humans they might want to visit their families. The expectation that these 18 - 21 year olds exist for our entertainment benefit is sad.

Zeb
12-14-2007, 03:31 PM
I save my outrage for something more... outrageous. This is nothing.

Jumbo
12-14-2007, 03:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=6&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos2

"The Blue Devils only play two games in four weeks. Fortunately, one of those is next Thursday against Pitt at Cameron Square Garden [emphasis added]. That should be a good test, as the Devils will have to deal with an elite offensive rebounding team."

Sorry we can fill up the garden and make lots of money for you espn. jerks.

If that counts as a "swipe," we should all be lucky to be treated so poorly.

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 04:26 PM
If that counts as a "swipe," we should all be lucky to be treated so poorly.

what are you guys gonna defend billy packer next?

billybreen
12-14-2007, 04:27 PM
I think it's an insult to CIS. Just because we play often at MSG and we play well there and have fans there does not mean it's anything like playing in CIS.

BTW, I started to read the user comments and quickly had to stop because there's just so much Duke hate and ignorance.

I love Cameron, but being compared to MSG is not an insult in any way. MSG is the Mecca, and I think it's a high honor to have its name associated with Cameron. ESPN was just pointing out how much more energy there is in the building when Duke plays than when, I don't know, the Knicks play. :)

Jumbo
12-14-2007, 04:27 PM
what are you guys gonna defend billy packer next?

Huh? And who is "you guys?"

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 04:38 PM
I love Cameron, but being compared to MSG is not an insult in any way. MSG is the Mecca, and I think it's a high honor to have its name associated with Cameron. ESPN was just pointing out how much more energy there is in the building when Duke plays than when, I don't know, the Knicks play. :)

That is NOT in ANY WAY what they were doing. What they were saying is that playing in MSG is like playing another home game for duke because we have so many alumni in the area that the crowd is always pro-duke.

It is NOT comparing the two stadiums, it has nothing to do with it. Rather they are continuing to harp on what has so far been the biggest "flaw" with us so far which is that we don't seem to have any "true" road tests.


Huh? And who is "you guys?"

Everyone that responded to my post seems to disagree with me that this isn't a snipe and is defending ESPN. Some are even "honored" to be mentioned in the same breath as MSG...despite the fact that just about everything out of espn about duke is negative. NOOOOOOWWWW do you get it?

You guys is everyone else, that like you, doesn't seem to take that comment as a snipe (or swipe) which it clearly is.

Jumbo
12-14-2007, 04:41 PM
Everyone that responded to my post seems to disagree with me that this isn't a snipe and is defending ESPN. Some are even "honored" to be mentioned in the same breath as MSG...despite the fact that just about everything out of espn about duke is negative. NOOOOOOWWWW do you get it?

You guys is everyone else, that like you, doesn't seem to take that comment as a snipe (or swipe) which it clearly is.

If you say so. Have you ever been to a Duke game at the Garden? The place DOES get transformed into its own version of Cameron. When J.J. went on a scoring spree against Oklahoma a couple of years ago, the place was louder than I've heard it for a Knicks game in years. (Well, that's not saying much.)

It's not a swipe. It's the truth -- MSG is Duke's home away from home. How on earth is that a "swipe?"

billybreen
12-14-2007, 04:48 PM
Everyone that responded to my post seems to disagree with me that this isn't a snipe and is defending ESPN. Some are even "honored" to be mentioned in the same breath as MSG...despite the fact that just about everything out of espn about duke is negative. NOOOOOOWWWW do you get it?

You guys is everyone else, that like you, doesn't seem to take that comment as a snipe (or swipe) which it clearly is.

Nope, still don't get it. I don't think I'm thin-kinned enough to flip out every time ESPN mentions us because OMG ESPN hates us!!!!! No, they don't, and it's silly to go hunting for insults.

Bob Green
12-14-2007, 04:49 PM
The Blue Devils, wanting to make sure their students have time to study for their exams and spend holiday time with their families, only play two games in four weeks.



Thanks for an excellent post! Life is all about priorities and in December a college students first priority better be exams. This applies to student-athletes, which is why they are not called athlete-students.

Bob

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 04:52 PM
If you say so. Have you ever been to a Duke game at the Garden? The place DOES get transformed into its own version of Cameron. When J.J. went on a scoring spree against Oklahoma a couple of years ago, the place was louder than I've heard it for a Knicks game in years. (Well, that's not saying much.)

It's not a swipe. It's the truth -- MSG is Duke's home away from home. How on earth is that a "swipe?"

I have been to several duke games at MSG (from philly) and I love it and I realize that its pretty much accurate to say its our home away from home. Nonetheless, if you don't see it as a swipe than I can't help you. Clearly you are willing to give ESPN the benefit of the doubt where I am not (and I have no idea why you would do that).

this is not the first time people from espn have commented on the fact that when we play at MSG its not really a "neutral court" game. in fact they do it every year (cause we play there every year), and they always put a negative spin on it. so when I see them do it over and over again, and then I see this article, I take as a being in that same line of commentary, which again, is negative.

So, again I repeat: I don't why you guys are so quick to defend them. And again I repeat: are you going to start defending billy when he makes backhanded compliments?

BTW, I Loved/hated that oklahoma game. Great game to be at, but I was very close to the oklahoma pep band and they played the same freaking song over and over and over and over...very annoying...see link below. at the game they played it much faster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1zL0h8jD-c

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 04:57 PM
Nope, still don't get it. I don't think I'm thin-kinned enough to flip out every time ESPN mentions us because OMG ESPN hates us!!!!! No, they don't, and it's silly to go hunting for insults.

calmer'n u r.

i didnt go hunting either. I read the power rankings quite often and that was in the section about us.

nor did it really bother me, I just thought I'd point it out since I was posting the link...i think its funny that everyone hates us so much. jealousy is an ugly color to wear

billybreen
12-14-2007, 05:15 PM
calmer'n u r

Nice! I'll forgive you for being wrong for your savvy reference ;)

3rd Dukie
12-14-2007, 05:24 PM
Man, there's not much I hate more than missing a good chance to get all self-righteous and pissed off, but I am afraid that this isn't one of those times. Somebody has to really looking for an offense to get all jacked up about this.
Just my opinion. Heck, it ain't like somebody shot your dog or something.

The last time I got all that worked up over something so seemingly innocuous, it turned out I needed more fiber in my diet.

77devil
12-14-2007, 05:56 PM
It's not a swipe. It's the truth -- MSG is Duke's home away from home. How on earth is that a "swipe?"

Actually, the Meadowlands is considered Duke's home away from home, aka "Cameron North" where Duke's record is something insane like 20-1. I interpreted the comment to be an attempt to be clever snipe at the lack of road games. MSG will, no doubt, have a large pro Duke contingent, but I will not be surprised if the Pitt. representation is just as or nearly as strong.

speedevil
12-14-2007, 06:02 PM
how can duke being rank #5 be a swipe? im actually surprised they are even ranked that high.

Duke09
12-14-2007, 06:35 PM
Check out GTown
"Think Roy Hibbert has a defensive impact? The Hoyas are third in the nation in FG percentage defense despite rarely turning opponents over."

But FG% and TOs have nothing to do with one another. You can shoot 100% but only score 4 pts if you turn it over ever time. A better barometer would be ppg.

I just wanted to point it out for no reason. Got to love message boards.

Grey Devil
12-14-2007, 08:52 PM
I think it should be taken as an honor to think that someone would consider renaming Madison Square Garden because Duke "owns" it. I knew about Madison Square Garden when I was a kid, well before I ever heard of Cameron . In fact, when I was a student at Duke "Cameron" wasn't even a part of its name...just the indoor Stadium. So to think that someone would suggest (or even hint) that the Garden, which predates the Indoor Stadium by a few years (not the actual stadium, but the name) should be renamed because we've played so well there should, IMO, be taken as an honor, not an insult.

Besides, we're Duke. We don't need to be so sensitive to every little crack someone might make. We're above that kind of pettiness.

Just my $.02.

Grey Devil

weezie
12-14-2007, 09:12 PM
I love Cameron, but being compared to MSG is not an insult in any way. MSG is the Mecca, and I think it's a high honor to have its name associated with Cameron. ESPN was just pointing out how much more energy there is in the building when Duke plays than when, I don't know, the Knicks play. :)

And MSG does have those swell beers with the pretzel rods in the handles. One huge advantage over Cameron.
I think there is more excitement in MSG when the cleaning crews scrape gum off the bottoms of the seats than there is when the Knicks play.

Jumbo
12-14-2007, 09:18 PM
Nonetheless, if you don't see it as a swipe than I can't help you.
Damn. I really need help and was hoping you'd provide it.


this is not the first time people from espn have commented on the fact that when we play at MSG its not really a "neutral court" game. in fact they do it every year (cause we play there every year), and they always put a negative spin on it. so when I see them do it over and over again, and then I see this article, I take as a being in that same line of commentary, which again, is negative.

There is no spin. There is a statement. It says Duke plays Pitt at Cameron Square Garden. Period. No extra swipe. No negative context. It's a funny little twist on the fact that Duke plays there every year. That you would read something "negative" into it is simply stunning.

SilkyJ
12-14-2007, 09:52 PM
Nice! I'll forgive you for being wrong for your savvy reference ;)

you must have me confused with the OTHER lebowski. the dude is never wrong.


Actually, the Meadowlands is considered Duke's home away from home, aka "Cameron North" where Duke's record is something insane like 20-1. I interpreted the comment to be an attempt to be clever snipe at the lack of road games. MSG will, no doubt, have a large pro Duke contingent, but I will not be surprised if the Pitt. representation is just as or nearly as strong.

listen to this guy. he's smart.


how can duke being rank #5 be a swipe? im actually surprised they are even ranked that high.

learn how to read.


Damn. I really need help and was hoping you'd provide it.


its a figure of speech. don't be so self-right--oh wait...i forgot who I am arguing with



There is no spin. There is a statement. It says Duke plays Pitt at Cameron Square Garden. Period. No extra swipe. No negative context. It's a funny little twist on the fact that Duke plays there every year. That you would read something "negative" into it is simply stunning.

My comment was referring to the past comments that ESPN makes every year, cause we always play a game at MSG and they inevitably point out that its a neutral court game thats not really a neutral court game, its really more like a home game for Duke...often accomanpied by a snide comment.

on another note, don't be such a jerk with your posts. you're a moderator and need to set an example. not to mention we're all on the same side here.

gvtucker
12-14-2007, 10:08 PM
Actually, this is a home game for Duke. We set up the game, get the refs, sell the tickets, get the money from the gate, get the arena, find an opponent, just as the home team should.

We just happen to choose to play the game in MSG.

You can easily take it to be a compliment if you look at things a different way.

Jumbo
12-14-2007, 10:10 PM
on another note, don't be such a jerk with your posts. you're a moderator and need to set an example. not to mention we're all on the same side here.

You've just told one poster to learn how to read, called me a jerk and -- in a thread where 90% of the posts disagree with you -- continue to lash out at people and refuse to acknowledge that you might be reading too much into a sentence in ESPN's power rankings. And you're telling me how to post. Got it.

dukie8
12-14-2007, 10:17 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=6&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos2

"The Blue Devils only play two games in four weeks. Fortunately, one of those is next Thursday against Pitt at Cameron Square Garden [emphasis added]. That should be a good test, as the Devils will have to deal with an elite offensive rebounding team."

Sorry we can fill up the garden and make lots of money for you espn. jerks.

how much more of a complement do you want? name one other team that can sell out a big arena in nyc EVERY year. i'll give you a hint...there isn't another team.

jipops
12-14-2007, 10:35 PM
If you say so. Have you ever been to a Duke game at the Garden? The place DOES get transformed into its own version of Cameron. When J.J. went on a scoring spree against Oklahoma a couple of years ago, the place was louder than I've heard it for a Knicks game in years. (Well, that's not saying much.)

It's not a swipe. It's the truth -- MSG is Duke's home away from home. How on earth is that a "swipe?"

Just like Greensboro and Charlotte are UNC's home away from home. And I'd say both gyms in those towns are probably louder than the sleepy Smith Center. Ahh, there's my swipe :)

devildeac
12-15-2007, 12:14 AM
Actually, this is a home game for Duke. We set up the game, get the refs, sell the tickets, get the money from the gate, get the arena, find an opponent, just as the home team should.

We just happen to choose to play the game in MSG.

You can easily take it to be a compliment if you look at things a different way.

Don't you mean PAY the refs or OWN the refs:D

zingit
12-15-2007, 01:07 AM
No need to pile on SilkyJ. In his/her defense, I also thought ESPN was making a reference to our lack of true road games, which would not be surprising--remember we just had a whole big thread about that topic and how sportswriters were criticizing us for it? Look, it doesn't really bother me and I certainly didn't think ESPN deserved to be called "jerks," but I do see SilkyJ's point that their line may have been a small reference to the way we tend to play away games on "neutral" or pro-Duke courts.

SilkyJ
12-15-2007, 03:58 AM
No need to pile on SilkyJ. In his/her defense, I also thought ESPN was making a reference to our lack of true road games, which would not be surprising--remember we just had a whole big thread about that topic and how sportswriters were criticizing us for it? Look, it doesn't really bother me and I certainly didn't think ESPN deserved to be called "jerks," but I do see SilkyJ's point that their line may have been a small reference to the way we tend to play away games on "neutral" or pro-Duke courts.

its a him for the record, and i've received an infraction for my apparently over the top comments so I'll just say word up.

SilkyJ
12-15-2007, 04:06 AM
how much more of a complement do you want?\

you mean like cameron outdoor stadium?


You've just told one poster to learn how to read, called me a jerk and -- in a thread where 90% of the posts disagree with you -- continue to lash out at people and refuse to acknowledge that you might be reading too much into a sentence in ESPN's power rankings.

I read the sentence and came to my conclusion a long time ago. What a few people I barely know think won't change that.

some people disagree, some people disagree with "attitude" so that was the "jerk" comment which apparently I'm not allowed to make.



And you're telling me how to post. Got it.


whew

4decadedukie
12-15-2007, 06:04 AM
Wouldn't have been nice if they had said:

The Blue Devils, wanting to make sure their students have time to study for their exams and spend holiday time with their families, only play two games in four weeks.

It would be more true to what college athletics should be if all teams only were playing a couple of games in this period. Because the players are students they need time for school work. Because they are humans they might want to visit their families. The expectation that these 18 - 21 year olds exist for our entertainment benefit is sad.

AMEN. A more-accurate post would be difficult to find. Thanks for saying this.

Carlos
12-15-2007, 09:03 AM
Lost in all of this is debate about Cameron Indoor North is the skew that Duke only plays 2 games in 4 weeks. Wanna know how you can say it...

Duke played Michigan on December 8 so if you start the clock on December 9 then 4 weeks takes you January 5, which is the day before Duke plays Cornell. So yeah, Duke only plays 2 games in 4 weeks which sounds much better than Duke only plays 4 games in 4 weeks and 2 days.

As for calling MSG "Cameron Indoor North" that may be a nice statement but of all the advantages of a "home" court the Garden passes only the crowd noise test. Of the things that come with a home court I would say that crowd noise is the most insignificant - as compared to familiarity with the court and routine of playing a game from your hometown. In fact, Duke is likely to be playing an opponent who has had more time on the Garden floor than the Devils given that the Big East Tournament is held there.

The1Bluedevil
01-24-2008, 10:43 PM
I have never seen an announcer who so clearly dislikes one team.

Duvall
01-24-2008, 10:46 PM
It's time for a designated ESPN comment and criticism thread.

wilson
01-24-2008, 10:49 PM
It's time for a designated ESPN comment and criticism thread.

Let's just put it on my Bickering Board. We'll rename it the Bickering, P!ssing, and Moaning Board.

rickymoyer
01-24-2008, 10:52 PM
I have never seen an announcer who so clearly dislikes one team.
Really? If he hated this team why would he have had them ranked 3rd on the list of the top 10 teams?

If he hated this team he would have spent 1/2 the game dissing Duke instead of calling Washington a flopper.

The1Bluedevil
01-24-2008, 10:58 PM
Just because you dislike a team doesn't mean you can't think they are good.

We don't like UNC but anyone who doesn't think they are good is on a different planet.

2001dukechamps
01-25-2008, 12:03 AM
Seriously what does he bring to the table as a analyst besides his deep hatred for Duke?? Add the fact that he lacks basketball knowledge, it is mind-boggling that ESPN actually pays him for what he does. I personally wouldn't let him be analyst for a pick-up game at the YCMA let alone a national televised College Basketball game.

kdevilsk212
01-25-2008, 03:49 AM
Seriously what does he bring to the table as a analyst besides his deep hatred for Duke?? Add the fact that he lacks basketball knowledge, it is mind-boggling that ESPN actually pays him for what he does. I personally wouldn't let him be analyst for a pick-up game at the YCMA let alone a national televised College Basketball game.

I don't mind Elmore. But Mike Patrick kills me. The typical Mike Patrick call (and there's no less than 6 of these for every game he calls) goes something like this:

<Kyle Singler flies out of bounds and smacks his chin open>

Mike Patrick: You've just got to love DeMarcus Nelson's hustle there.
Len: Actually, I think that's Kyle Singler.
Mike: You're right Len, it is. Oh, and it looks like he's come up limping. The Blue Devil faithful won't like that.
Len: Actually, I think he's cut his chin.
Mike: And a foul on Singler.
Len: Actually, it's just an official time out to clean up the blood.
Mike: Blood on the floor in Lexington.
Len: We're in Durham.
Mike: Indeed. The capital city Len. Right you are...

bloodevil
01-25-2008, 05:56 AM
Pantene Shampoo had a commercial back in the 80’s that featured actress/model, Kelly LeBrock. (She was the hot, sexy creation of the two nerds in the movie, Weird Science.) Anyway, the catch phrase that Kelly delivered in that commercial was, “Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.” The reason that the commercial worked so well is that people are universally resentful of others’ beauty, success, fame, etc. Consequently, people will go to great lengths to be like those of whom they are envious, even while they try to destroy the objects of their jealousy.
So it goes with Duke. We are all of those things, and people are insanely jealous. I say to all of them, “Don’t hate us because we are beautiful. Hate yourselves for being so damn ugly.”

Lavabe
01-25-2008, 08:17 AM
I have never seen an announcer who so clearly dislikes one team.

Funny, but I get the feeling these days that he hates nearly every team. I'm having more difficulty recognizing any team ('cept the turtles) that he actually enjoys watching.

As someone else said, BRING BACK VITALE! :eek: At least he loves every team. He enjoys his work.
Cheers,
Lavabe

NDMD
01-25-2008, 09:34 AM
Seriously what does he bring to the table as a analyst besides his deep hatred for Duke?? Add the fact that he lacks basketball knowledge.......

Excuse me, but the last time I checked, Len Elmore was a highly recruited prep star out of Power Memorial in New York City who attended the University of Maryland where he was a three-time All-ACC player and an All-American in 1974. He then went on to become a first round draft pick and later, an eight year veteran of the NBA. Elmore, also received a J.D. from Harvard Law School in 1987. Aside from his announcing duties, Elmore also serves as Senior Counsel with LeBoef, Lamb, Greene & MacRae in New York City and is President of the National Basketball Retired Players Association. He is also a member of the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Atheltics.
In short, he's your typical University of Maryland alumnus.

mus074
01-25-2008, 09:46 AM
Excuse me, but the last time I checked, Len Elmore was...
In short, he's your typical University of Maryland alumnus.

I had no idea he threw batteries at opposing teams, wore t-shirts that directed personal expletives at other players or....

Wait! Hearing all about Maryland's remarkably low athlete graduation rate, I didn't know there was a typical alumnus who played basketball. I suppose he perfectly represents a subset of one.

Teton Jack
01-25-2008, 10:02 AM
Whenever I get disturbed by Len Elmore and his comments, I remember Len's last game at Cameron where unheralded Stu Yarborough, our 6' 5" substitute "center", rather embarrassed him. I think that has colored his perception of Duke to this day.

Teton Jack

NDMD
01-25-2008, 10:04 AM
We are all of those things, and people are insanely jealous. I say to all of them, “Don’t hate us because we are beautiful. Hate yourselves for being so damn ugly.”

Jealousy.......it swings both ways.

mus074
01-25-2008, 10:04 AM
How about that open-minded, bastion of objectivity Hubert Davis? Check out the Power 16 for the last two weeks:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/powerranking?season=2008&week=12&pollId=1

You can click over to the individual rankings for each week. I don't put too much stock in what a collection of "experts" thinks about us - I prefer objective stats. However, Hubert "Gummy" Davis ranks us, as of Wed 1/23, tenth. Tenth! The next lowest rankings for Duke were fifth, by Jay "Don't Call Me a Homer" Bilas and Andy Glockner. Hubert ranked UNC third (after the Maryland loss in Chapel Hill), UCLA fourth (after their loss), Tennessee fifth (after their loss), Washington St. sixth, Georgetown seventh, Michigan St. eighth, Texas ninth and Duke tenth. Lest you think this was an error and just a reproduction of the previous week, he moved us up a spot from 11th, and UNC up a spot from fourth (despite the loss), apparently due to UCLA's loss to USC which dropped them back to fourth from second.

I'd be curious as to his elaboration on that ranking process.

shadowfax336
01-25-2008, 10:29 AM
It must make Vitale happy to be able to rank Memphis, Kansas, Duke, UNC, UCLA, and Indiana as his top 6 and have nobody question it.

Can you believe the tradition of these schools baby? Jusut think of all the great players who have worn these jerseys! And what great coaches, when you think of Coach K, John Calipari, Roy Williams... These guys really know how to teach! And they have some of the best diaper dandies in the countries learning from them this year! Eric Gordon, Kyle Singler, Kevin Love (Vitale spontaneously combusts at this point, overjoyed with the goodness of life)

devildeac
01-25-2008, 11:21 AM
Excuse me, but the last time I checked, Len Elmore was a highly recruited prep star out of Power Memorial in New York City who attended the University of Maryland where he was a three-time All-ACC player and an All-American in 1974. He then went on to become a first round draft pick and later, an eight year veteran of the NBA. Elmore, also received a J.D. from Harvard Law School in 1987. Aside from his announcing duties, Elmore also serves as Senior Counsel with LeBoef, Lamb, Greene & MacRae in New York City and is President of the National Basketball Retired Players Association. He is also a member of the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Atheltics.
In short, he's your typical University of Maryland alumnus.

don't you mean your Atypical md alumnus:o

captmojo
01-25-2008, 11:38 AM
I don't mind Elmore. But Mike Patrick kills me. The typical Mike Patrick call (and there's no less than 6 of these for every game he calls) goes something like this:

<Kyle Singler flies out of bounds and smacks his chin open>

Mike Patrick: You've just got to love DeMarcus Nelson's hustle there.
Len: Actually, I think that's Kyle Singler.
Mike: You're right Len, it is. Oh, and it looks like he's come up limping. The Blue Devil faithful won't like that.
Len: Actually, I think he's cut his chin.
Mike: And a foul on Singler.
Len: Actually, it's just an official time out to clean up the blood.
Mike: Blood on the floor in Lexington.
Len: We're in Durham.
Mike: Indeed. The capital city Len. Right you are...

This was great! A good laugh.:D

Patrick is, every game, becoming more and more, the return of the late Jim Thacker, when it comes to getting viewable facts wrong while on live air.

I've learned to watch like a zombie, thus tuning out listening to all but the crowd, and the whistles from the zebras. This has begun to save what little sanity I have left. I suggest all others do the same. It's sort of like a free throw shooter trying to tune out the crowd, or Tiger Woods trying to blank out a passing aircraft during an important shot.

Bryan
01-25-2008, 01:54 PM
ESPN is Duke's Basketball Network. Much like NBC is Notre Dame's, except our agreement isn't as formal. We don't have EVERY game televised by the network, but we do have 15 scheduled games on ESPN (plus a possible two more in Maui and then in the ACC Tournament), which is more than any other team in the nation (pretty positive on that).



ND is a fine school- they were at or near the top of colege football long enough that almost every fan had a strong opinion either for or against them.

Duke hasn't been at or near the top of college basketball as long as ND was in football, but has reached a similar status where most fans have a strong opinion about the team. But fans who think that only good things will be said about Duke aren't being very realistic. I think it's great that nearly all Duke's games are on TV. I don't expect every one else to root for them or even for the announcers to get all their facts right when they criticize. But it is just fun to watch this team play, this is a very good team that also plays together very well.

feldspar
02-01-2008, 01:18 AM
Dear ESPN,


This:





http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2234386838_df2ba14440.jpg




Is not DeMarcus Nelson. In fact, he is no one on Duke's 2007-2008 roster. Come to think of it, I don't think this fella has ever donned a Blue Devil jersey. Ever. I mean, he kinda looks like Shane Battier if you shave his head and squint your eyes a bit. A young Shane Battier, maybe. But certainly not DeMarcus Nelson.



Sincerely,

A Concerned Duke Fan

P.S. Please also inform Len Elmore that "literally" means "actually" or "free from exaggeration or embelleshment." Therefore, Mr. Elmore could not possibly have been correct when he said "Gavin Grant has been literally unconscious every time he touches the ball" otherwise Grant would have literally needed medical attention.

hc5duke
02-01-2008, 01:19 AM
I noticed that as well. Though they did display a new graphic like a minute later, with the correct picture.

KandG
02-01-2008, 01:21 AM
Ha, I was wondering who the heck that was posing as Markie -- looked like some hybrid of Trajan and Shane and Dahntay. To ESPN's credit, they seemed to realize the error quickly enough to rerun the graphic during the next break in play, with a picture of the genuine Markie.

Jumbo
02-01-2008, 01:21 AM
Mistakes are made. At least they took it down and corrected it soon after.

billybreen
02-01-2008, 01:21 AM
This is not DeMarcus Nelson. In fact, he is no one on Duke's 2007-2008 roster. Come to think of it, I don't think this fella has ever donned a Blue Devil jersey. Ever. I mean, he kinda looks like Shane Battier if you shave his head and squint your eyes a bit. A young Shane Battier, maybe. But certainly not DeMarcus Nelson.

P.S. Please also inform Len Elmore that "literally" means "actually" or "free from exaggeration or embelleshment." Therefore, Mr. Elmore could not possibly have been correct when he said "Gavin Grant has been literally unconscious every time he touches the ball" otherwise Grant would have literally needed medical attention.<br><br><br>

Ditto on both. I'm pretty sure that dude is one of State's guards. Notice that they inexplicably ran the same graphic, with a corrected image, a couple of minutes later. Elmore clearly had no idea why it was being shown again.

David Cross has a great bit about sports casters misusing literally, a huge pet peeve in that it's _literally_ the exact opposite of how it should be used. Even Throaty was upset, and Throaty thinks language has no rules.

feldspar
02-01-2008, 02:00 AM
Glaring mistakes are often made by ESPN and should be mocked accordingly.

Edits attached.

Jumbo
02-01-2008, 02:32 AM
I'm a doofus.

Edits attached. ;)

Looks like it was Marques Johnson (http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=41962&SPID=3731&DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1150334&Q_SEASON=2007)in the picture. I have no experience with this sort of thing, but I imagine that there's some sort of computer program that manages the graphics and contains all the players' headshots. Could've been a glitch, could've been someone clicking on the wrong button, who knows.

Devilsfan
02-01-2008, 03:28 AM
Elmore, walton and the likes. Also DeMarcus is 6'2" not 6'4" tall.

feldspar
02-01-2008, 03:32 AM
Edits attached. ;)

Looks like it was Marques Johnson (http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=41962&SPID=3731&DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1150334&Q_SEASON=2007)in the picture. I have no experience with this sort of thing, but I imagine that there's some sort of computer program that manages the graphics and contains all the players' headshots. Could've been a glitch, could've been someone clicking on the wrong button, who knows.

Tell you what, Jumbo, I'll quit harping on sports journalism when you quit harping on basketball officials. Capiche? :D

speedevil
02-01-2008, 03:33 AM
Edits attached. ;)

Looks like it was Marques Johnson (http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=41962&SPID=3731&DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1150334&Q_SEASON=2007)in the picture. I have no experience with this sort of thing, but I imagine that there's some sort of computer program that manages the graphics and contains all the players' headshots. Could've been a glitch, could've been someone clicking on the wrong button, who knows.

nice find, your right

dukemomLA
02-01-2008, 03:54 AM
:confused: We all laughed (in my household) when this pic was shown. "Who is this guy?" said my Duke grad daughter. "That's ridiculous," said my son-in-law Duke grad. "What the f**k," said this dukemomLA.

Again, we ask....who is this guy in the picture??? (then again...a good belly laugh from us all). But...out of curiosity...truly...name that picture.

BlueDevilJay
02-01-2008, 08:04 AM
We didn't get to enjoy Elmore this go round as we had the JP broadcast, which was choppy the entire game! But props to them for FINALLY buying some HD cameras and the game was broadcast in 1080i!!! Even ESPN still broadcasts in 7 whatever it is (I think 780, but having a brain fart at the moment). I was ecstatic when I saw JP finally upgraded. Really hate I missed out on that stunning Elmore commentary, but I had quite enough of Billy Packer, who was as partisan as ever against Duke, to hold me over until Saturday vs Miami. Seriously, in his opinion, the turning point of the game, was when Paulus kicked that pass and stole it, and Duke went on a run. He harped about that for a good 5 minutes, and then 10 minutes later brought it up again. It was ridiculous.

alteran
02-01-2008, 08:14 AM
We didn't get to enjoy Elmore this go round as we had the JP broadcast, which was choppy the entire game! But props to them for FINALLY buying some HD cameras and the game was broadcast in 1080i!!! Even ESPN still broadcasts in 7 whatever it is (I think 780, but having a brain fart at the moment).

760p.

Good to hear JP joined the 21st century.

heyman25
02-01-2008, 08:18 AM
I pointed that out on ^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$%^$% the screwup on the Nelson graphic. I hate the non game camera work of ESPN which has to be blamed on the director. Why do we have to see the guys in chef hats every game or some geek that wants to wear a wrestling face mask. They rarely show the cheerleaders or the female students in the bleachers.They have an obsession with the top goofballs in the audience.:eek:

Karl Beem
02-01-2008, 08:29 AM
We didn't get to enjoy Elmore this go round as we had the JP broadcast, which was choppy the entire game! But props to them for FINALLY buying some HD cameras and the game was broadcast in 1080i!!! Even ESPN still broadcasts in 7 whatever it is (I think 780, but having a brain fart at the moment). I was ecstatic when I saw JP finally upgraded. Really hate I missed out on that stunning Elmore commentary, but I had quite enough of Billy Packer, who was as partisan as ever against Duke, to hold me over until Saturday vs Miami. Seriously, in his opinion, the turning point of the game, was when Paulus kicked that pass and stole it, and Duke went on a run. He harped about that for a good 5 minutes, and then 10 minutes later brought it up again. It was ridiculous.

It's just Raycom this year. ESPN is 720p which is legitimate HD. Frankly I prefer it to 1080i. BTW, the broadcast I received was 720p.

BlueDevilJay
02-01-2008, 08:30 AM
760p.

Good to hear JP joined the 21st century.

Yeah no joke. It ticked me off last year to know that ESPN was broadcasting our games in HD, yet they were always blocked in my area and I was forced to watch the SD broadcast (which doesn't look too great on a larger TV) even though the HD broadcast was available. I applaud JP for finally taking the leap and making the games better for those with HD capability.

BlueDevilJay
02-01-2008, 08:33 AM
It's just Raycom this year. ESPN is 720p which is legitimate HD. Frankly I prefer it to 1080i. BTW, the broadcast I received was 720p.

Really? I checked mine when I finally figured out that it was going to be HD and noticed it was 1080, which shocked me that they (Raycom, you're right, calling it JP is just an old habit) jumped from SD all the way to the 1080. And yeah I know 720p is legit HD, and I love it, but you can truly tell a difference between the 720 and 1080, which I never thought I'd be able to, but you can. Either one is better than SD though, so I wouldnt have cared if they only did 720, it made my evening (although I did get a choppy feed though, which sucked)

Karl Beem
02-01-2008, 08:35 AM
Really? I checked mine when I finally figured out that it was going to be HD and noticed it was 1080, which shocked me that they (Raycom, you're right, calling it JP is just an old habit) jumped from SD all the way to the 1080. And yeah I know 720p is legit HD, and I love it, but you can truly tell a difference between the 720 and 1080, which I never thought I'd be able to, but you can. Either one is better than SD though, so I wouldnt have cared if they only did 720, it made my evening (although I did get a choppy feed though, which sucked)

My audio was bad, but the video was fine.

Highlander
02-01-2008, 08:44 AM
We didn't get to enjoy Elmore this go round as we had the JP broadcast, which was choppy the entire game! But props to them for FINALLY buying some HD cameras and the game was broadcast in 1080i!!! Even ESPN still broadcasts in 7 whatever it is (I think 780, but having a brain fart at the moment). I was ecstatic when I saw JP finally upgraded. Really hate I missed out on that stunning Elmore commentary, but I had quite enough of Billy Packer, who was as partisan as ever against Duke, to hold me over until Saturday vs Miami. Seriously, in his opinion, the turning point of the game, was when Paulus kicked that pass and stole it, and Duke went on a run. He harped about that for a good 5 minutes, and then 10 minutes later brought it up again. It was ridiculous.

Maybe for you. I had to watch the game on WJZY (the CW in Charlotte), which was most definitely NOT in HD, and the audio sounded like a tape recorder in a cardboard box. I'm guessing they didn't have the equipment to handle the HD signal or something. Anyone else in the Charlotte, NC area notice this?

All the while, ESPN2 was in HD but blacked out just a few channels up. <sigh>

Duvall
02-01-2008, 08:51 AM
Tell you what, Jumbo, I'll quit harping on sports journalism when you quit harping on basketball officials. Capiche?

Let's just all agree that they both stink.

jimsumner
02-01-2008, 09:19 AM
"Elmore, walton and the likes. Also DeMarcus is 6'2" not 6'4" tall."

Oh. Come On. Duke lists Nelson as 6'4". So ESPN should make up their own height? Somebody pushed the wrong button and it's worth a thread of outrage?

BTW, how do you know Nelson is 6'2"?

pamtar
02-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Edits attached. ;)

Looks like it was Marques Johnson (http://www.gopack.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=41962&SPID=3731&DB_OEM_ID=9200&ATCLID=1150334&Q_SEASON=2007)in the picture. I have no experience with this sort of thing, but I imagine that there's some sort of computer program that manages the graphics and contains all the players' headshots. Could've been a glitch, could've been someone clicking on the wrong button, who knows.

Why is this guy not getting more PT? He had some nice moves to the basket and exhibited decent ball handling skills. Says on his bio that he transfered to State this year. Still though, they've had a month to work him in.

DukeUsul
02-01-2008, 09:29 AM
The conventional wisdom is that 720p is better than 1080i for sports broadcasts due to the quick motion. Of course both are better than 480.

BlueDevilJay
02-01-2008, 09:34 AM
Maybe for you. I had to watch the game on WJZY (the CW in Charlotte), which was most definitely NOT in HD, and the audio sounded like a tape recorder in a cardboard box. I'm guessing they didn't have the equipment to handle the HD signal or something. Anyone else in the Charlotte, NC area notice this?

All the while, ESPN2 was in HD but blacked out just a few channels up. <sigh>

Maybe that was my problem then, because I used to live in Gastonia and had TW Cable and ALWAYS got the absolute crap SD feed, seemed even worse to me than an antenna broadcast. Living about an hour north of you, I now have DirecTV and finally got the HD broadcast for a Raycom game. Needless to say I was rather pleased except for the audio and video choppiness, but thats better than nothing. Im assuming you have TWCable down there?

Carrie
02-01-2008, 09:44 AM
David Cross has a great bit about sports casters misusing literally, a huge pet peeve in that it's _literally_ the exact opposite of how it should be used. Even Throaty was upset, and Throaty thinks language has no rules.

This is my husband's biggest pet peeve. We've discussed putting together a coffee table book with quotes of misuses of "literally" along with illustrations. Sure, the one for "She literally blew up on the court in the second half" could be ugly, but "He literally carried his team down the field on that drive" would be a fun one to draw.

billybreen
02-01-2008, 09:46 AM
This is my husband's biggest pet peeve. We've discussed putting together a coffee table book with quotes of misuses of "literally" along with illustrations. Sure, the one for "She literally blew up on the court in the second half" could be ugly, but "He literally carried his team down the field on that drive" would be a fun one to draw.

That sounds like a good idea, until an announcer says 'I've literally soiled myself I'm so excited.' That wouldn't be a fun one :)

Reisen
02-01-2008, 10:24 AM
Dear ESPN,
P.S. Please also inform Len Elmore that "literally" means "actually" or "free from exaggeration or embelleshment." Therefore, Mr. Elmore could not possibly have been correct when he said "Gavin Grant has been literally unconscious every time he touches the ball" otherwise Grant would have literally needed medical attention.

Sigh... Let's not get into this again. This is wrong, and no one seems to be aware of it. The only thing worse than a grammar mistake is pointing out something everyone thinks is a grammar mistake that actually is not.

Not trying to jump on you Feldspar, or any of the people who posted agreeing with you, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

From Merriam-Webster:

literally

Function:
adverb
Date:
1533

1 : in a literal sense or manner : actually <took the remark literally> <was literally insane>
2 : in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

usage: Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.

billybreen
02-01-2008, 10:26 AM
2 : in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

usage: Since some people take sense 2 to be the opposite of sense 1, it has been frequently criticized as a misuse. Instead, the use is pure hyperbole intended to gain emphasis, but it often appears in contexts where no additional emphasis is necessary.

Oh no! I'm literally tearing my hair out.

Turtleboy
02-01-2008, 10:32 AM
Mistakes are made. At least they took it down and corrected it soon after.They consistently, repeatedly and continually make the mistake of focusing the camera on the player who just scored (or the coach, or someone's mom, or a wacky student) rather than the live action. Any idea when they might be correcting that?

Jumbo
02-01-2008, 10:34 AM
They consistently, repeatedly and continually make the mistake of focusing the camera on the player who just scored (or the coach, or someone's mom, or a wacky student) rather than the live action. Any idea when they might be correcting that?

Uh, after we write to our Congressmen?

billybreen
02-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Uh, after we write to our Congressmen?

Spector has some time on his hands (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6518).

DevilBen02
02-01-2008, 10:44 AM
David Cross has a great bit about sports casters misusing literally, a huge pet peeve in that it's _literally_ the exact opposite of how it should be used. Even Throaty was upset, and Throaty thinks language has no rules.

Regardless of whether it's actually correct usage or not, it still sounds wrong to a lot of people. A couple of weeks ago, there was a bit on the Soup about how some TV entertainment show host had said that Britney Spears (or was it Lindsey Lohan?) was "literally on a roller-coaster to hell."

billybreen
02-01-2008, 11:19 AM
Regardless of whether it's actually correct usage or not, it still sounds wrong to a lot of people. A couple of weeks ago, there was a bit on the Soup about how some TV entertainment show host had said that Britney Spears (or was it Lindsey Lohan?) was "literally on a roller-coaster to hell."

We should be so lucky!

gewwang
02-01-2008, 11:48 AM
The JP HD feed on TW in Charlotte was on Channel 250. It looked great and only choppy a few times for a few seconds each time.

Lulu
02-01-2008, 06:50 PM
well i can see how at first glance one might "hit the button" for MARques johnSON instead of deMARcus nelSON. forgiven this time

CDu
02-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Why is this guy not getting more PT? He had some nice moves to the basket and exhibited decent ball handling skills. Says on his bio that he transfered to State this year. Still though, they've had a month to work him in.

Because he's a really bad point guard. He had 4 turnovers to 1 assist in 13 minutes. That's really bad for a point guard. And he was simply overwhelmed by any sort of pressure defense. The only game in which he's had an A/TO ratio of better than 1:1 was in a game against Western Carolina. Other than that, he's had 9 assists and 15 turnovers in his other 9 games.

He's probably more suited to be a shooting guard. But they have Fells, who's much better than he is at shooting guard. If Degand wasn't hurt, Johnson likely would be the backup to Fells and not getting many minutes at all (Gonzalez would be the backup PG).

devildownunder
02-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Let's just all agree that they both stink.

Every sports journalist and every basketball official stinks?

Hmmm

heath_harshman4
02-01-2008, 08:26 PM
well...

Demarcus' pic was kinda funny...

BUT!!!

Len calling Nolan Smith Demarcus Nelson a few times and calling Gerald Henderson Nolan Smith bugged me...I mean, how many Duke games has he done? Seriously? *sigh* Dickie V back when we play on Feb. 6th against a team i cant remember........ ;)

Section 8
02-01-2008, 09:12 PM
Really hate I missed out on that stunning Elmore commentary, but I had quite enough of Billy Packer, who was as partisan as ever against Duke, to hold me over until Saturday vs Miami. Seriously, in his opinion, the turning point of the game, was when Paulus kicked that pass and stole it, and Duke went on a run. He harped about that for a good 5 minutes, and then 10 minutes later brought it up again. It was ridiculous.

Billy Packer suckles at the teat of Lucifer himself.

Kimist
02-01-2008, 11:58 PM
They consistently, repeatedly and continually make the mistake of focusing the camera on the player who just scored (or the coach, or someone's mom, or a wacky student) rather than the live action. Any idea when they might be correcting that?

That is a continuing problem with ESPN, but not always. Perhaps they have Crew "A" and Crew "B" or something like that? It is aggravating that some programs show the pictures you mentioned when it would be very nice instead to watch the real game (can you say defense in action?).

Of course, Fox Sports originally had the problem with the butt-cams, and lots of meaningless crowd shots, and then CBS always seems to enjoy the camera view from high in the corner in a nearby area code. Somewhat like a person with bad vision watching from the back row of the Dean Dome.

But on a brighter note, at least the folks who watched the ESPN feed of the NCSU game did not have to endure Billy Packer!! :mad:

k

Uncle Drew
02-02-2008, 12:16 AM
Dear ESPN,


This:





http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2260/2234386838_df2ba14440.jpg




Is not DeMarcus Nelson. In fact, he is no one on Duke's 2007-2008 roster. Come to think of it, I don't think this fella has ever donned a Blue Devil jersey. Ever. I mean, he kinda looks like Shane Battier if you shave his head and squint your eyes a bit. A young Shane Battier, maybe. But certainly not DeMarcus Nelson.



Sincerely,

A Concerned Duke Fan

P.S. Please also inform Len Elmore that "literally" means "actually" or "free from exaggeration or embelleshment." Therefore, Mr. Elmore could not possibly have been correct when he said "Gavin Grant has been literally unconscious every time he touches the ball" otherwise Grant would have literally needed medical attention.


Great post Feld. Perhaps there is some condition in the medical world in the same family as Terret Syndrome but it makes players fall into a coma when a basketball is placed in their hands. We can call it Elmore Syndrome. :D

throatybeard
02-02-2008, 11:29 AM
and Throaty thinks language has no rules.


No, Throaty understands that language variety allows for different rules sets, and knows a lot more about those rules than you do.

billybreen
02-02-2008, 12:16 PM
No, Throaty understands that language variety allows for different rules sets, and knows a lot more about those rules than you do.

Finally. This is the first time in the last 100 tries that you've responded to my flame bait. I'm honored.

jimsumner
03-16-2008, 09:53 PM
From their NIT article.

"The Big East contributed two of the other No. 1 seeds in Virginia Tech and Syracuse. Arizona State received the other top seed, in the bracket that contains Florida."

Shouldn't someone at ESPN know that Virginia Tech isn't in the Big East?

Duvall
03-16-2008, 09:59 PM
Shouldn't someone at ESPN know that Virginia Tech isn't in the Big East?

Could be wishful thinking.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
03-16-2008, 10:02 PM
Could be wishful thinking.

Given the crying Greenburg has done re:Cameron and the way Washington plays I think I wish they were:rolleyes:

barjwr
03-17-2008, 11:33 AM
Did anyone else notice that ESPN put up a photo of Hansbrough as part of a graphic involving a Duke player during the Clemson game? I can't remember who was supposed to be in the graphic.

Maybe it's the military grammar school my English-major father put me through, but I have noticed several ESPN graphic errors this year--more than most. At one point during the ACC final yesterday they had a subtitle referring to the "ACC Tournamant" [sic]. Do they have a new editor? Do they have ANY editors?

Coballs
04-06-2008, 12:38 AM
When the topic of the pressure of coaching in the Final Four was brought up, Vitale on several occasions tonight went off on a complete tangent by proclaiming that "the real pressure" is on the coaches who did not get to the FF and were trying to hold on to their jobs. Then Digger, speaking from his experience of one FF game, interrupts Dick with tales from his lone trip twenty years ago.....which of course ended after a semi-final game against a squad from Durham, NC.

Bob Green
04-06-2008, 12:51 AM
Then Digger, speaking from his experience of one FF game, interrupts Dick with tales from his lone trip twenty years ago.....which of course ended after a semi-final game against a squad from Durham, NC.

Digger's semi-final game loss to Duke was thirty years ago.

Coballs
04-06-2008, 01:05 AM
I know. Quick computation error. 30 years - even better.

Lavabe
04-06-2008, 08:05 AM
Anyone seen Stuart Scott or Hubert Davis this morning?:D

I'd love to hear their views on the game last night.

dukeimac
04-06-2008, 08:44 AM
Fact of the matter is, talent gets you through the season and might get you to the final four BUT it is coaching that gets you a championship.

I've always said Roy can recruit but he showed again that he can't coach.

No player should be embarrassed about last night, Roy should be! He DID NOT have them ready to play.

These last three games is all about the pressure on a coach.

And you can always bet opposite of Digger, he had UNC vs UCLA for the title.

Trinity84
04-06-2008, 08:48 AM
Anyone seen Stuart Scott or Hubert Davis this morning?:D

I'd love to hear their views on the game last night.

Scott only does Carolina's highlight when they win. You won't find him reporting on last night's debacle; hell, you might not see him on SportsCenter until Wednesday. College basketball coverage for the next three days will be all about Memphis and Kansas.

Lavabe
04-06-2008, 08:52 AM
I've always said Roy can recruit but he showed again that he can't coach.

No player should be embarrassed about last night, Roy should be! He DID NOT have them ready to play.

I'd also like to think that Bill Self and Kansas had something to do with it. NOTHING but compliments to him; maybe that will stop all the coaching questions people have raised about him.

Cheers,
Lavabe

roywhite
04-06-2008, 08:56 AM
Fact of the matter is, talent gets you through the season and might get you to the final four BUT it is coaching that gets you a championship.

I've always said Roy can recruit but he showed again that he can't coach.

No player should be embarrassed about last night, Roy should be! He DID NOT have them ready to play.

These last three games is all about the pressure on a coach.

And you can always bet opposite of Digger, he had UNC vs UCLA for the title.

Roy's failure to call a timeout to try to stem the huge surge during the first half was a major mistake. Pure stubborness on his part. The number of easy baskets that Kansas made, the hurried shots that UNC often took---just didn't look like Carolina belonged at that level.

Most notable ESPN mis-statement regarding the Final Four teams did not take place last night---it was Jay Bilas earlier in the year saying that UCLA's Collison was the best PG in the country. Collison was thoroughly dominated by the Memphis guards.

budwom
04-06-2008, 09:28 AM
Refusing to call a time out during an opponent's big run is SUCH a Dean Smith thing. Hope Dean was beaming ear to ear when he saw how Ol' Roy was upholding the tradition.

RelativeWays
04-06-2008, 09:46 AM
Y' know K did that a couple times this year so its not just a UNC thing. Its a gamble by coaches to see how their kids will respond, sometimes letting them bottom out and work through it can be effective, other times a scream fest is in order.

roywhite
04-06-2008, 09:51 AM
Y' know K did that a couple times this year so its not just a UNC thing. Its a gamble by coaches to see how their kids will respond, sometimes letting them bottom out and work through it can be effective, other times a scream fest is in order.

During a regular season game, it could be considered a learning opportunity.

In the Final Four, not calling the t.o. is a self-inflicted wound.

RelativeWays
04-06-2008, 10:07 AM
He did it against Belmont too.

JasonEvans
04-06-2008, 10:09 AM
To me the coaching statement of the game was the opening play of the 2nd half, a clearly diagrammed play by Kansas that worked to perfection and caught Carolina flat footed.

I love when Billy Packer said, "if you go into the Kansas locker room right now, that play is written on the drawing board."

Self knew he needed a play to make sure Kansas did not wilt early and he got one. A little while later, after Carolina had made it really close, I saw Kansas go to a few more well-designed plays for alley-oop slams. Those are what broke open the game for a 2nd time. Self saw that there was a big hole in Carolina's helpside D and he exploited it.

Roy is a fine coach and an amazing recruiter, but he was outcoached last night, for sure.

-Jason "Self really answered some questions about himself as a coach the past week" Evans

weezie
04-06-2008, 10:11 AM
CBS can't be too pleased now. Those Monday night ratings are likely to be pretty low.

Devil in the Blue Dress
04-06-2008, 10:40 AM
The General was on the money in his pre game comments about the sort of game we'd see in the second game last night. Bobby Knight's contributions in game analysis were excellent. It would be great to see him become a regular on ESPN during the college basketball season. The comments made by other former coaches turned analysts wilt in comparison.

moonpie23
04-06-2008, 10:47 AM
i don't like bobby knight....but i will admit that his commentary is light years ahead of his counterparts..

could we PUHLEEEZE get him on a show with stephen A.??? and have plenty of chairs available.

freedevil
04-06-2008, 11:10 AM
CBS can't be too pleased now. Those Monday night ratings are likely to be pretty low.

I would not have watched if UNC won. Now, I'm on board....

Son of Mojo
04-06-2008, 11:22 AM
Just watched their synopsis a few minutes ago with V saying in his joking way he's "still sticking with unc!!!" Ugh. Meanwhile, Knight's just looking straight-ahead with a deadpan look like he heard nothing. Good man there in Bobby. Knight's been so good to watch since he's been on air--think it's because he's more interested in explaining the important things (the teams, coaches, strategy, x's & o's) than he is in showing his "personality" which still comes out naturally without being forced like with the usual suspects. Digger's a joke, Bilas has almost made me forget he used to wear the colors with pride, V's perpetually trying too hard (but for this whole year he's allowed a pass for what he fought back from), Davis is a non factor to me (though I'd love to see Stuart Scott moping today. . .), and Elmore--geez, if there was ever a candidate to have someone NOT on air to ever be seen or heard from again, it'd be the King of all Haters.

Bryan
04-06-2008, 01:20 PM
During a regular season game, it could be considered a learning opportunity.

In the Final Four, not calling the t.o. is a self-inflicted wound.

UNC cut the Kansas lead to 15-10 with 13;24 left in the first half. The Kansas lead had expanded to 35-12 with 7:51 left in the half, a 20-2 run in about 5 and a half minutes.

I wonder how many of the UNC fans thought "That's OK. We must not be in trouble since we still have all of our timeouts left!"

UNC finally called their first timeout after the next 3 pointer made it 38-12.

And wise Ol' Roy still had 3 of his 5 timeouts left after Kansas scored to make it 80-61 with 1:44 left in the second half. Just enough time for that miracle rally.

sagegrouse
04-06-2008, 01:26 PM
Digger's semi-final game loss to Duke was thirty years ago.

Time flies when you're having fun!

sagegrouse

Ima Facultiwyfe
04-06-2008, 01:33 PM
...because he couldn't think of anything to tell his guys? It sure wouldn't do them any good for him to just stand there and scratch his head while they drank their water!

A stark comparison would be what the camera inside the time out with Coach Danowski during the waxing of JHU last evening showed us. He had plenty to say and it also showed how much he trusts his players judgements, gathering info from them as well.

Love, Ima

sagegrouse
04-06-2008, 03:04 PM
At Minneapolis in 2001 when Duke was losing to UMd 38-16, Coach K called time-out and said:

"You're playing like you're afraid to lose. What are you afraid of -- losing by 40 points? You're already losing by 20!"

sagegrouse

Karl Beem
04-06-2008, 03:26 PM
Given the crying Greenburg has done re:Cameron and the way Washington plays I think I wish they were:rolleyes:

So do I.:rolleyes:

captmojo
04-06-2008, 04:53 PM
...because he couldn't think of anything to tell his guys? It sure wouldn't do them any good for him to just stand there and scratch his head while they drank their water!

A stark comparison would be what the camera inside the time out with Coach Danowski during the waxing of JHU last evening showed us. He had plenty to say and it also showed how much he trusts his players judgements, gathering info from them as well.

Love, Ima

Nah, Budwom's right. It's a Dean thing.

dukeimac
04-06-2008, 07:27 PM
Timeout no timeout can be debated but how does a team like UNC let things get that bad?

Cause Roy can't coach and he didn't have them prepared for the game.

When Duke trailed Maryland I felt Coach K could get them back.

What would he have said in the timeout, try this "well damn gumit I don't know what to say but that I don't think I know how to coach."

I will not give Roy any credit for being a good coach until he wins a title with a team he recruited.