Which player do you think improved the most over their time at Duke?

[BlueDevilStop]

Curious to hear who you all think.

[OldPhiKap]

Quinn Cook.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Quinn Cook.
Lance Thomas comes to mind too... :cool:http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[chrishoke]

John Smith.

[plimnko]

Goldwire is working his way at least onto the list

[Truth&Justise]

Marshall Plumlee.

As a freshman he looked like a baby deer on ice. He'd bull his way into fouls, turn the ball over whenever he got it, and couldn't stay on the floor. He appeared in half of Duke's games, playing 2.6 minutes per game, scoring 2 points. Not 2 points per game...2 points total for the year. This means he had more turnovers (5) and fouls (5) than points. All of this despite the fact that he was a former McD's AA (somehow) and had redshirted for a year.

But he got steadily better every year. By his junior year he was an important and reliable bench contributor, helping Duke win a national championship. And as a senior he was the rock of the team, playing 30.5 minutes per game and averaging 8.3 points and 8.6 rebounds.

And then he went on to play 29 games over two season in the NBA! What remarkable progress.

Oh, and he's Duke's all-time leader in 3-pt percentage ;)

[Acymetric]

Quinn Cook.


Lance Thomas comes to mind too... :cool:http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

There is probably some recency bias here (I'm not as familiar with the overall career arcs of guys from before the mid-late 90s because I was too young or not yet born) but those two along with Nolan Smith and Brian Zoubek stand out to me.

[Kedsy]

Alaa Abdelnaby went from a garbage-time player as a freshman to 3rd team All ACC as a senior.
Lee Melchionni went from 71 total minutes as a freshman to 716/717 as a junior/senior.
Chris Carrawell went from a bench/role player to ACC POY.
Shane Battier went from a role player to NPOY.
Already mentioned by others, but Marshall Plumlee, Brian Zoubek, and Jordan Goldwire are all decent candidates, too.

[Edouble]

First thought that pops into my head... I'd go with Shane.

Shane seemed like a pretty one-dimensional defensive specialist when he came in. By the end he was the best defender ever at Duke, who set the record for most 3 pointers in a game, and was NPOY. One of Duke's finest two way players.

Around the same era, Chris Carrawell also improved tremendously, going from role player to ACC POY. Part of his growth curve was due to the fact that he was injured in high school and at one point couldn't even lift his arms overhead.

Agree also with Nolan, mentioned upthread.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Zooooooooooob!!!

[budwom]

gotta throw in Fred Lind.

[jimsumner]

Lind would make my short list.

But so would Tate Armstrong.

[Bob Green]

Just Jumpers Redick transformed into a complete player. He probably will not get at lot of love in this thread but his name deserves mnention. Diet, exercise and lots of hard work over his four years at Duke. He never got enough credit for how good a defender he became.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Just Jumpers Redick transformed into a complete player. He probably will not get at lot of love in this thread but his name deserves mnention. Diet, exercise and lots of hard work over his four years at Duke. He never got enough credit for how good a defender he became.

I don't think he became that good of a defender until he hit the NBA. He was an end of the bench warmer, and there was one reason why, and his coach in Orlando let him know it. Under Stan Van Gundy, JJ slowly became not only a great shooter, but a relentless defender. It was crazy watching him chase guys all over the court. Took him a couple years, but he got off of Stan's bench and made a huge impact on both ends of the court.

[jimsumner]

I've told this story before and I guarantee you I'll tell it again.

But after the 1975 season Bill Foster told then sophomore Tate Armstrong that he would like him to come back in better condition.

Armstrong went home to Texas--in the summer-and proceeded to run, 10, 15, 20 miles a day, 100 miles a week. In the summer. In Texas.

Duke didn't track minutes-per-game in 1976. But Armstrong averaged 37 minutes per game in 1977. Good enough for you, coach?

This is a guy who came off the bench behind fellow freshman Edgar Burch in 1974, an historically bad Duke team. He came back in 1976 as one of the best guards in the country.

And while I'm thinking about it, Mark Crow also came in with that class and spent most of the season playing for the JV team. Crow played 10 games for a terrible, terrible team in 1974. TEN GAMES. Bob Cook played more. Yes, that Bob Cook.

By the time he ended up Crow was giving Duke 12 points and six rebounds per game and actually played some in the NBA. No one would have seen that in 1974.

[Native]

Justin Robinson, anyone?

[jimsumner]

Let me add Brian Davis to the list.

[scottdude8]

Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.

[niveklaen]

Eric Meek could barely walk as a freshman.* Got drafted in the 2nd round by the Rockets after his senior year.

*granted it was the result of being hit by a car, but his dedication to return from life threatening injuries makes him the most improved in my book.

[-jk]

Justin Robinson, anyone?

All set to lead us to the Championship!

Sigh...

-jk

[MartyClark]

Gerald Henderson immediately came to my mind. I had to Google his stats to see if my initial thought had any merit.

He averaged 6.8 ppg as a freshman, 16.5 as a junior.

He was a highly regarded recruit who, perhaps, disappointed as a freshman. I vaguely remember that there was some talk that he had exercise induced asthma but then another view that he was just too worked up as a freshman.

He ended up being a great Duke player and had a good NBA career.

[Travis]

Thomas Hill comes to mind. No starts as a Freshman. Less than 13 minutes per game. 3.4 pts and 2.2 rebounds per game. Minutes nearly double as a Soph And he scores 11.4 pts per game, starting a bit over half the time. Last two years starts nearly every game and averages around 15 pts per game. And plays well enough to be 3rd team All-ACC last three years I believe.

And of course those teams were loaded. More than the numbers, I remember being concerned when Billy Mc. transferred and we got even better, and T. Hill’s improvement was a big reason why I think.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Ryan Kelly averaged 6.5 minutes and 1.2 ppg his freshman year. His junior and senior year he was a key contributor, averaging 11.8 and 12.9 ppg, as well as over 5 rpg, and who knows what he would have done his senior year without the injury.

[Acymetric]

Justin Robinson, anyone?

...sigh...

Edit: I see jk had the same reaction.

[roywhite]

From Coach K's first decade, Kevin Strickland is a good choice.

No starts his first two years (on very good teams of 1985 and 1986)
Averaged 11.5 points as a junior, and 16.1 points as a senior; good shooter and became a better defender
In Kevin's senior year, he was a key player on the ACC Tournament Champions and Final Four team.

http://www.dukeupdate.com/Alumni/kevin_strickland.htm

[jimsumner]

From Coach K's first decade, Kevin Strickland is a good choice.

No starts his first two years (on very good teams of 1985 and 1986)
Averaged 11.5 points as a junior, and 16.1 points as a senior; good shooter and became a better defender
In Kevin's senior year, he was a key player on the ACC Tournament Champions and Final Four team.

http://www.dukeupdate.com/Alumni/kevin_strickland.htm

Maybe. But sometimes guys don't improve so much as get an opportunity to play. Strickland spent his first two seasons at Duke backing up Johnny Dawkins. Dawkins would have kept darn near anybody in the country on the bench and he never came out.

Not saying he didn't get better. Of course he did. But the stats are misleading.

[camion]

I've told this story before and I guarantee you I'll tell it again.

But after the 1975 season Bill Foster told then sophomore Tate Armstrong that he would like him to come back in better condition.

Armstrong went home to Texas--in the summer-and proceeded to run, 10, 15, 20 miles a day, 100 miles a week. In the summer. In Texas.

Duke didn't track minutes-per-game in 1976. But Armstrong averaged 37 minutes per game in 1977. Good enough for you, coach?

This is a guy who came off the bench behind fellow freshman Edgar Burch in 1974, an historically bad Duke team. He came back in 1976 as one of the best guards in the country.

And while I'm thinking about it, Mark Crow also came in with that class and spent most of the season playing for the JV team. Crow played 10 games for a terrible, terrible team in 1974. TEN GAMES. Bob Cook played more. Yes, that Bob Cook.

By the time he ended up Crow was giving Duke 12 points and six rebounds per game and actually played some in the NBA. No one would have seen that in 1974.

I thought immediately of Tate then I wondered if I had remembered correctly. Thanks for confirming my recollection.

I mainly remember Tate's physical transformation from one year to the next. He went from being a bit pudgy (for a basketball guard) to being a lean mean playing machine.

[sagegrouse]

Just Jumpers Redick transformed into a complete player. He probably will not get at lot of love in this thread but his name deserves mnention. Diet, exercise and lots of hard work over his four years at Duke. He never got enough credit for how good a defender he became.

Comments among the Duke faithful seemed to think that JJ would take a couple of years to develop into a valuable player. Coach K said after the 2003 season that it was clear from the get-go that JJ was the best player in the class. Perhaps "coach speak," perhaps not. Perhaps fan blather?

Battier was a highly recruited HS player that everyone wanted.

I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire

[roywhite]

Maybe. But sometimes guys don't improve so much as get an opportunity to play. Strickland spent his first two seasons at Duke backing up Johnny Dawkins. Dawkins would have kept darn near anybody in the country on the bench and he never came out.

Not saying he didn't get better. Of course he did. But the stats are misleading.

Yes, of course, he was not taking time away from Dawkins but it was hard to tell from his first two years that Strickland would become a good player.

In his second year, Kevin shot 37.2% from the field, 69.2% from the FT line and turned the ball over frequently. He looked lost.

By his senior year, he shot 52.7% FG, 80.8% from the FT line, and rebounded well for a backcourt player. A virtual metamorphosis. Plus he should get extra credit for his hometown of Mt. Airy. Shazam!

[budwom]

I thought immediately of Tate then I wondered if I had remembered correctly. Thanks for confirming my recollection.

I mainly remember Tate's physical transformation from one year to the next. He went from being a bit pudgy (for a basketball guard) to being a lean mean playing machine.

I missed the entire Armstrong era due to living without electricity in those days..did catch some Olympic action, though, I believe.

[Dukehk]

Boozer. Quinn. Zoubek. Carawell. Battier.

[Edouble]

Comments among the Duke faithful seemed to think that JJ would take a couple of years to develop into a valuable player. Coach K said after the 2003 season that it was clear from the get-go that JJ was the best player in the class. Perhaps "coach speak," perhaps not. Perhaps fan blather?

Battier was a highly recruited HS player that everyone wanted.

I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

The argument that Shane is disqualified from being considered a player who improved a great deal over his time at Duke, due to being so highly recruited, falls flat, IMO.

If you saw Shane his freshman year and thought he was NPOY material, more power to you. He did not look like that to me at all.

[sagegrouse]

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

The argument that Shane is disqualified from being considered a player who improved a great deal over his time at Duke, due to being so highly recruited, falls flat, IMO.

If you saw Shane his freshman year and thought he was NPOY material, more power to you. He did not look like that to me at all.

No questions you are right, but I applied an additional screen -- not highly recruited (which I waived for Zoubs).

[jv001]

Quinn, Zoubs and Tony Lang.

[SkyBrickey]

Ive got to go Carrawell. He was very limited offensively when he got to Duke. And I don’t recall him being that highly rated, maybe in the 30s nationally. By his senior year he was a total stud on both ends of the court.

I’ve never seen a Duke player improve that much offensively.

[1991 duke law]

Grant Hill - that guy had nothing as a freshman but boy did he blossom in his senior year.

I joke - I joke.

[Kedsy]

I don't think he became that good of a defender until he hit the NBA. He was an end of the bench warmer, and there was one reason why, and his coach in Orlando let him know it. Under Stan Van Gundy, JJ slowly became not only a great shooter, but a relentless defender. It was crazy watching him chase guys all over the court. Took him a couple years, but he got off of Stan's bench and made a huge impact on both ends of the court.

I watched JJ quite a bit when he came to Philadelphia. His defensive improvement after his first couple years in the League was impressive, and he deserves credit for upping his defense to the point where he could start and earn big minutes, but has never risen to the level of being a good NBA defender.

[jimsumner]

Even more highly recruited were Shav Randolph and Chris Burgess.

.

Not even close. Burgess' prep reputation was in free fall by the end of his senior season. Battier was much more highly regarded.

And Randolph was the consensus No. 14 player in his prep class. There was no RSCI for the prep class of 1997 but Battier would have been around 5-7. He was a HUGE get.

Battier did improve over his four years, especially as a 3-point shooter. But the overwhelming majority of college players improve over the course of a three or four-year career. People keep citing players like Carlos Boozer-consensus No. 8 in his class-or Ryan Kelly-No. 14 in his class when increased playing time and/or enhanced roles is more of a factor than the normal progression they showed. Battier was a freshman on a team that included 6-8 senior All-America forward Roshown McLeod. Duke didn't ask him to do as much in 1998 as they asked him to do in 2000. Ryan Kelly backed up junior Kyle Singler, senior Lance Thomas and more-athletic classmate Mason Plumlee in 2010. The minutes just weren't there.

Again all of Battier, Boozer and Kelly and others got better as their careers progressed. But excluding players whose careers were negatively impacted by injuries or off-court issues (e.g. Ricky Price), we can say that about darn near anybody who played basketball at Duke or anywhere else. That's how it works.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Lance Thomas comes to mind too... :cool:http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif
OK, when I said Lance Thomas above, I thought the intent of the thread was who improved most AFTER their time at Duke, not while at Duke. I guess that's a different thread, but also an interesting topic! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

[Acymetric]

OK, when I said Lance Thomas above, I thought the intent of the thread was who improved most AFTER their time at Duke, not while at Duke. I guess that's a different thread, but also an interesting topic! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Lance improved quite a bit while he was at Duke too...maybe not so much on the offensive end but he became quite the defender his senior year.

[Oh no, not Petway!]

I am thinking of the seniors who were surprise stars, at least to me. Brickey, Brian Davis, Lang, Wojo, Zoubek (top 25 player who had done little his first three seasons), Seth Curry (not recruited by any major program), Jack White, Jordan Goldwire

This is how I was thinking about it too. Someone upthread beat me to it but I immediately thought of John Smith (aka “Onion”). Lightly recruited (if I remember correctly), was glued to the bench freshman year, and then became an important part of some good teams.

[jimsumner]

This is how I was thinking about it too. Someone upthread beat me to it but I immediately thought of John Smith (aka “Onion”). Lightly recruited (if I remember correctly), was glued to the bench freshman year, and then became an important part of some good teams.

Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

In other words, strictly an inside player

Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.

[SupaDave]

Okay - I'll say it.

LEE MELCHIONNI!

[throatybeard]

dude i saw Nick Horvath in Card gym this summer and let me tell ya wooowiee.

[jimsumner]

Okay - I'll say it.

LEE MELCHIONNI!

And his right-handed doppelgänger Marty Clark.

[tteettimes]

Alan Shaw

[wsb3]

Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

In other words, strictly an inside player

Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.

That is a good one Jim. I was thinking of another Smith as well, Nolan.

[arnie]

Alan Shaw

My device doesn’t show the emoji that you surely used.

[budwom]

Alan Shaw

There are wonderful stories about Duke hoopsters, but I'm not sure many can top the Alan Shaw story I've heard, regardless of whether it's true or not.

[jv001]

There are wonderful stories about Duke hoopsters, but I'm not sure many can top the Alan Shaw story I've heard, regardless of whether it's true or not.

Waiting for your pm.:cool:

[budwom]

Waiting for your pm.:cool:

I don't think I dare...but I bet some others on the forum have heard of this? (Alan was a very nice guy)...

[OldPhiKap]

I don't think I dare...but I bet some others on the forum have heard of this? (Alan was a very nice guy)...

I have not. But he may be the reason Len Elmore hates Duke:


Feb. 3, 1973 – Duke 85, No. 3 Maryland 81

Lefty Driesell's return to Duke was always a big event, but none was bigger than this 1973 visit, when he brought a powerful team led by Durham native John Lucas and big men Len Elmore and Tom McMillen. But Maryland's young backcourt star was outplayed by Blue Devil senior Gary Melchionni, who scored 39 points out of a delay game that Coach Bucky Waters dubbed “The Mongoose.” Alan Shaw, who had shut down Bob McAdoo the year before, limited Maryland center Len Elmore to three points in 33 minutes of action. Driesell picked up a late technical for calling a timeout he didn't have – afterwards, explaining that he made the call on purpose to stop the clock, Lefty uttered his immortal line: “Ah kin coach!”

https://goduke.com/news/2015/1/18/209848909.aspx

[Devilwin]

Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.

Agreed.:cool:

[Truth&Justise]

Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.


Agreed.:cool:

Stats as Freshman:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
19
0
2.6
0.1
0.6


Brian Zoubek
32
2
7.3
3.1
2.2



Stats as Seniors:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
36
36
30.5
8.3
8.6


Brian Zoubek
40
16
18.7
5.6
7.7



Just a snapshot, but it looks like freshman Marshall was significantly worse than freshman Zoubek, while senior Marshall was arguably better (at least over the course of the whole season) than senior Zoubek. So which of those two improved more in their time at Duke?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Stats as Freshman:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
19
0
2.6
0.1
0.6


Brian Zoubek
32
2
7.3
3.1
2.2



Stats as Seniors:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
36
36
30.5
8.3
8.6


Brian Zoubek
40
16
18.7
5.6
7.7



Just a snapshot, but it looks like freshman Marshall was significantly worse than freshman Zoubek, while senior Marshall was arguably better (at least over the course of the whole season) than senior Zoubek. So which of those two improved more in their time at Duke?

If we're talking percentage improvement, MP3 wins hands down. He was a disaster during his first 2 years at Duke. Zoubek was a fouling machine, but he clearly had more talent coming in. So, safe to say MP3's base was lower than Zoubek's as a frosh.

But in terms of impact, I'll take senior Zoubs over senior MP3. Zoubek's rebounding rate was off the charts good and his second half of the season stats are incomparable with his first half. Also, no one saw second half senior Zoubs coming, and many, myself included, believe second half Zoubs is a biiiiiiiiig reason why we won the natty that year.

[chrishoke]

Smith had an interesting career arc. He had already committed to Duke when he was declared academically ineligible for most of his senior year. Out of sight, out of mind.

Then he sat on the bench most of his freshman year, behind seniors Mark Alarie and Jay Bilas and freshman Danny Ferry. He played 91 minutes that season, most if not all mop-up minutes.

Then he somehow beat out Marty Nessley and Alaa Abdelnaby, both McDonald's All-Americans and started in 1987 and was a rotation player inside in 1988.

Over those two seasons Smith attempted one 3-pointer and had 20 assists against 110 turnovers.

In other words, strictly an inside player

Duke brought in Christian Laettner and Crawford Palmer for Smith's senior season and K told Smith he would need him to play more on the perimeter and he needed to work on his perimeter skills.

As a senior Smith hit 25-of-53 on 3s (47 percent) and had 32 assists against 43 turnovers.

So, yes, this a textbook example of someone who went into the gym and reformatted his game to his benefit and the benefit of his team.

After his playing career ended Smith went back to school and got his doctorate at Maryland, in math, I believe and became an educator.

Great post Jim, thanks for all that detail. I was the one that first mentioned John upthread. One question - how does a guy go from being academically ineligible to play ball his senior year in high school to getting his PhD in math. Wow!

[TruBlu]

Great post Jim, thanks for all that detail. I was the one that first mentioned John upthread. One question - how does a guy go from being academically ineligible to play ball his senior year in high school to getting his PhD in math. Wow!

Sometimes a light comes on, and a person gets motivated. I’m still waiting on a flicker of light for myself.

[InSpades]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned him yet but the first name that came to my mind was actually a different Plumlee... Mason. He was obviously always talented but his freshman year he averaged 3.7 points per game. By the time he became a senior he was 2nd team all-america. I remember being particularly amazed at his improvement from his junior year to his senior year. I didn't think he had it in him to become a play maker the way he did (and then has continued that in his NBA career). Super impressed by his improvement.

I guess it's hard to compare to guys that started out not playing and ended up as solid contributors. Then there are the guys like Shane who was always good but their game grew so much over their time at Duke. Still... for the time I've been watching (94 to current day)... no one impressed me as much with their improvement as Mason Plumlee.

[jimmymax]

Marty Clark

[devilwood]

Smith was a great player - actually made big contributions in '88 as a junior. Had a big game against a tough and physical URI team coached by Tom Penders in the Sweet 16 - but broke his hand celebrating. That did not hurt in the big upset of Temple in the Regional Final but I always thought his contribution was missed in the Final Four loss to Kansas.

[heyman25]

Alan Shaw

I would say Zoubek Fred Lind Quinn Cook
Winner Chris Carrawell shoulder injury to ACC POY

Alan Shaw met at a Duke alum party
He was a teacher and was also a standin for Lurch on the Addams Family remake. I know Eric Greenspan the head of Major Attractions an entertainment attorney. He is good friends with Gary and his son Lee Melchionni who I last heard was a sports agent.
The year Eric was head of DUMA
we had the Beach Boys Grateful Dead at Joe College.Wallace Wade Stadium
In 1975 Cameron had Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band when I was in charge of tickets.
The current undergraduate taste in music does not rate at all to 1972-76. Cameron is off limits.
Traffic I thought was the greatest concert at Cameron under Eric Greenspan.
Joni Mitchell Parliament Funkadelic Simon & Garfunkel Janis Joplin Faces with Rod Stewart all payed at Cameron.
Was in LA when Duke hosted the Stones at Wallace Wade. Ronnie Wood's 2nd appearance at Duke.

[heyman25]

And I also agree with the mention of Tate Armstrong. He made the 1976 USA Olympic Team

[gep]

One comment on Zoubs... from me, a full-on Zoubs fan. I forget which news conference... towards the end of his senior season, after the NC game, or some-such... someone in the media asked Zoubs as to what he credited his phenomenal rise in his play. Before Zoubs could answer, Coach K cut Zoubs off, and answered the question... essentially saying that Zoubs was always the Zoubs they just saw, but it was just that Zoubs was injured during all of that other time. So based on Coach K, Zoubs didn't really improve... just got injury-free. :cool:

In any case, I agree with others that the rise of Zoubs was a MAJOR factor in winning the NC.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Danny Ferry also improved a ton over his career. While he came in as a big-time recruit, his freshman year was rather underwhelming, as he averaged just 5.9 ppg on 46% shooting. If he had approached expectations more closely, a future overly confident announcer would have become 6th man, and Duke would have been a complete team with no weaknesses. Ferry improved markedly each year so that by the time he was a senior, he averaged 22.6 ppg, 7.4 rpg, and 4.7 apg on 52.2% shooting, including 42.5% from 3. Danny seems to get overlooked a lot in lists of all-time Duke greats.

For single-season statistical improvement (no doubt in part due to being behind great players as a freshman), it's hard to top Allen's leap from his freshman to sophomore year. Unfortunately, that trajectory didn't continue.

This would be a different discussion if this year's tournament hadn't been cancelled, since J-Rob was poised to average a triple-double on the way to leading us to the title!

[dukelifer]

Danny Ferry also improved a ton over his career. While he came in as a big-time recruit, his freshman year was rather underwhelming, as he averaged just 5.9 ppg on 46% shooting. If he had approached expectations more closely, a future overly confident announcer would have become 6th man, and Duke would have been a complete team with no weaknesses. Ferry improved markedly each year so that by the time he was a senior, he averaged 22.6 ppg, 7.4 rpg, and 4.7 apg on 52.2% shooting, including 42.5% from 3. Danny seems to get overlooked a lot in lists of all-time Duke greats.

For single-season statistical improvement (no doubt in part due to being behind great players as a freshman), it's hard to top Allen's leap from his freshman to sophomore year. Unfortunately, that trajectory didn't continue.

This would be a different discussion if this year's tournament hadn't been cancelled, since J-Rob was poised to average a triple-double on the way to leading us to the title!

You might even make a case for Laettner. Not sure after his Freshman year anyone would have predicted his rise to superstardom.

[-jk]

You might even make a case for Laettner. Not sure after his Freshman year anyone would have predicted his rise to superstardom.

I know. That dude chokes so bad with the game on the line Nixon has to console him!

-jk

[SilkyJ]

Brian Zoubek is the only correct answer to this question.


Stats as Freshman:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
19
0
2.6
0.1
0.6


Brian Zoubek
32
2
7.3
3.1
2.2



Stats as Seniors:



Games
Games Started
MPG
PPG
RPG


Marshall Plumlee
36
36
30.5
8.3
8.6


Brian Zoubek
40
16
18.7
5.6
7.7



Just a snapshot, but it looks like freshman Marshall was significantly worse than freshman Zoubek, while senior Marshall was arguably better (at least over the course of the whole season) than senior Zoubek. So which of those two improved more in their time at Duke?

I think you actually have to parse Zoub's season into a first-half/second half. Or really first 2/3rds and last 1/3rd. I'll go pull the stats later, but I believe it was the Maryland game in mid-Feb where he came out and had 16 pts / 17 rebs in 22 minutes (!). (The game before he played 10 minutes at UNC). Duke lost one game the rest of the way (at Maryland in our penultimate regular season game) and Zoubs was pretty dominant, particularly on the boards where he led the country in O-reb rate (and may overall reb-rate).

So his arc was a slower increase until Feb of his senior year and then a HUGE spike in productivity for his final ~15 games. Undoubtedly a major force in propelling us to the NC. One of the greatest joys of watching that team was watching them grab an O-board and kick it/tap it to Nolan/scheyer/Singler for a wide open 3. Many daggers were had via that unscripted play.

[Acymetric]

I think you actually have to parse Zoub's season into a first-half/second half. Or really first 2/3rds and last 1/3rd. I'll go pull the stats later, but I believe it was the Maryland game in mid-Feb where he came out and had 16 pts / 17 rebs in 22 minutes (!). (The game before he played 10 minutes at UNC). Duke lost one game the rest of the way (at Maryland in our penultimate regular season game) and Zoubs was pretty dominant, particularly on the boards where he led the country in O-reb rate (and may overall reb-rate).

So his arc was a slower increase until Feb of his senior year and then a HUGE spike in productivity for his final ~15 games. Undoubtedly a major force in propelling us to the NC. One of the greatest joys of watching that team was watching them grab an O-board and kick it/tap it to Nolan/scheyer/Singler for a wide open 3. Many daggers were had via that unscripted play.

Not only did he lead the country, I'm pretty sure he set a record for O-reb rate (it may or may not still stand).

Edit:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/orb-pct-player-season.html

For some reason it cuts off at the 2009-2010 season but he would be in second on that list behind AJ West in 2014-2015 (Zoub ended up with a 21.5% ORB percentage.

[jv001]

Not only did he lead the country, I'm pretty sure he set a record for O-reb rate (it may or may not still stand).

Edit:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/orb-pct-player-season.html

For some reason it cuts off at the 2009-2010 season but he would be in second on that list behind AJ West in 2014-2015 (Zoub ended up with a 21.5% ORB percentage.

A healthy Zoubs was a terrific player. Without him, Duke does not cut down the nets.

GoDuke!

[Fish80]

Different answer to a different question: JJ made the most of his potential. Can’t jump. T-Rex arms. Still playing a GREAT NBA career.

[Steven43]

One of the greatest joys of watching that team was watching them grab an O-board and kick it/tap it to Nolan/scheyer/Singler for a wide open 3. Many daggers were had via that unscripted play.

I remember being astounded when Duke began regularly doing that play — where a Duke player (usually Zoubek or Thomas) would get an offensive rebound and instead of going up with a shot would pass it out out to a teammate waiting behind the three-point line who would then shoot a three-pointer.

I had not seen that done with regularity by any team, and then suddenly Duke was doing it nearly constantly. It was shocking and it took me a little while to get used to it, but after a couple of games it began to make sense to me.

It really did feel like Duke was on the cutting-edge of a new way of playing the game. And in retrospect I think it’s clear that they were.

[Bluedog]

Not only did he lead the country, I'm pretty sure he set a record for O-reb rate (it may or may not still stand).

Edit:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/leaders/orb-pct-player-season.html

For some reason it cuts off at the 2009-2010 season but he would be in second on that list behind AJ West in 2014-2015 (Zoub ended up with a 21.5% ORB percentage.

I'm fairly certain Zoubek was ever so slightly behind a DeJuan Blair season in ORB %.

I agree Zoubek was greatly improved, but I think posters give him way more credit than somebody like Marshall because we won the championship....that certainly clouds judgment in just looking at a player in a vacuum. I think it's fair to say Zoubek's supporting cast was stronger than Marshall's.

[jv001]

I'm fairly certain Zoubek was ever so slightly behind a DeJuan Blair season in ORB %.

I agree Zoubek was greatly improved, but I think posters give him way more credit than somebody like Marshall because we won the championship...that certainly clouds judgment in just looking at a player in a vacuum. I think it's fair to say Zoubek's supporting cast was stronger than Marshall's.

But like his brothers before him, Marshall was on an NCAAT Championship team(2015). Even though he didn't play as many minutes has older brothers, he did average around 10 mpg. He did improve a lot by his senior year and is a good pick for this thread. His senior year he averaged 8.3ppg and 8.6 rpg but in ACC play he averaged 9.4ppg, 9.8 rpg and led the ACC with 4.2 offensive rebounds per game. In the NCAAT he averaged 10.3 ppg, 7.7 rpg and 3.0 blocks per game. His senior year he scored double figures 12 times, had double figure rebound games 14 times and had 7 double-doubles. He had two 17 rebound games(Syracuse & Wake) and had 6 blocked shots against Kentucky on November 17th. He led the Blue Devils in Field Goal percentage with .688% Marshall was a very good player by his senior year.

[Truth&Justise]

I'm fairly certain Zoubek was ever so slightly behind a DeJuan Blair season in ORB %.

I agree Zoubek was greatly improved, but I think posters give him way more credit than somebody like Marshall because we won the championship...that certainly clouds judgment in just looking at a player in a vacuum. I think it's fair to say Zoubek's supporting cast was stronger than Marshall's.


But like his brothers before him, Marshall was on an NCAAT Championship team(2015). Even though he didn't play as many minutes has older brothers, he did average around 10 mpg. He did improve a lot by his senior year and is a good pick for this thread. His senior year he averaged 8.3ppg and 8.6 rpg but in ACC play he averaged 9.4ppg, 9.8 rpg and led the ACC with 4.2 offensive rebounds per game. In the NCAAT he averaged 10.3 ppg, 7.7 rpg and 3.0 blocks per game. His senior year he scored double figures 12 times, had double figure rebound games 14 times and had 7 double-doubles. He had two 17 rebound games(Syracuse & Wake) and had 6 blocked shots against Kentucky on November 17th. He led the Blue Devils in Field Goal percentage with .688% Marshall was a very good player by his senior year.

In addition to the championship context, I think what's also emerging is that there's different ways to measure "most improved." You can slot these guys into a number of different categories:

Guys who went from total non-factor to important contributor?
Fed Lind, Alan Shaw, John Smith, Lee Melchionni, Marshall Plumlee, Jordan Goldwire

Guys who went from small role player to star of the team?
Tate Armstrong, Brian Zoubek

Guys who went from good role player to All-American?
Chris Carawell, Nolan Smith, Mason Plumlee, Quinn Cook

Guys who went from regular starter to true superstar?
Christian Laettner, Shane Battier, JJ Redick

So lots of good ways to answer. Personally I'm sticking with Marshall Plumlee, since it's hard to capture just how meager his early on-court contributions were. I mean, they were literally zero his first year on campus (he redshirted), and then in his second year on campus he scored fewer points than Todd Zafirovsky. Also one of those years (can't remember which) I saw him eating a sandwich in the Bryan Center about an hour before a game. It barely mattered if he made it over to Cameron in time.

But as a senior he was doing all the things that jv0001 mentioned and then made it to the NBA. What a career!

So with respect to the other categories of "most improved," he remains my answer.

[jimsumner]

In addition to the championship context, I think what's also emerging is that there's different ways to measure "most improved." You can slot these guys into a number of different categories:

Guys who went from total non-factor to important contributor?
Fed Lind, Alan Shaw, John Smith, Lee Melchionni, Marshall Plumlee, Jordan Goldwire

Guys who went from small role player to star of the team?
Tate Armstrong, Brian Zoubek

Guys who went from good role player to All-American?
Chris Carawell, Nolan Smith, Mason Plumlee, Quinn Cook

Guys who went from regular starter to true superstar?
Christian Laettner, Shane Battier, JJ Redick

So lots of good ways to answer. Personally I'm sticking with Marshall Plumlee, since it's hard to capture just how meager his early on-court contributions were. I mean, they were literally zero his first year on campus (he redshirted), and then in his second year on campus he scored fewer points than Todd Zafirovsky. Also one of those years (can't remember which) I saw him eating a sandwich in the Bryan Center about an hour before a game. It barely mattered if he made it over to Cameron in time.

But as a senior he was doing all the things that jv0001 mentioned and then made it to the NBA. What a career!

So with respect to the other categories of "most improved," he remains my answer.

Agree with some of these. But several are head-scratchers.

Brian Zoubek was "star of the team?" The team that had Jon Scheyer, Kyle Singler and Nolan Smith? Zoubek did one thing really, really well and it was an important thing. But "star?"

And where would anyone get the idea that Alan Shaw was a "total non-factor?" After helping Duke to an undefeated freshman team, Shaw averaged 6.4 ppg and 5.6 rpg as a sophomore, backing up senior bigs Randy Denton and Larry Saunders. He then made second-team All-ACC as a junior and had a statistical drop as a senior. He was always a rotation player at Duke.

I would add Alaa Abdelnaby, Brian Davis, Marty Clark, David McClure and Miles Plumlee to the non-factor-to-factor list. Look at their freshmen stats.

I'm not sure anyone has mentioned Vince Taylor but he didn't play a lot as a freshman, backing up senior All-American Jim Spanarkel. By the time he was a senior he was first-team All-ACC and the ACC's leading scorer.

[jv001]

Jim's mention of Vince Taylor made me think of Jersey numbers of former players. I was looking at past players numbers to see what some of the most talented players wore in their playing days. Some I had no problem remembering others I had to look up. Here are some of those player/numbers:

#11= Bobby Hurley, Bob Verga and Kyrie
#4= JJ Redick, Carlos Boozer and Tommy Amaker
#1= Zion, Jabari Parker and Vernon Carey
#32= Christian Laettner and Mark Alarie
#24= Johnny Dawkins and Jack Marin
#30=Jon Scheyer, Seth Curry and Ala Abdelnaby
#35= Danny Ferry and Marvin Bagley III
#22= Jay Williams and Steve Vacandak
#23= Shelden Williams and Chris Carrawell
#34= Mike Dunleavy and Jim Spanarkel
#12= Kyle Singler, Vince Taylor, Justise Winslow and WoJo
#20= Gene Banks and Chris Collins
#42= Elton Brand and Mike Lewis
#44= Jeff Mullins and Cherokee Parks
#3= Grayson, the Jones brothers and The late Phil Henderson(also #44)
#2= Quinn Cook and Nolan Smith
#14= Tate Armstrong and Brandon Ingram
# 5= Mason Plumlee and Luke Kennard
#21= Trajan Langdon and Chris Duhon
# 33= Grant Hill
#31= Shane Battier
#10= Dick Groat
#25= Art Heyman
#43= G-Man
#15= Jahilil Oakafor
#0= Jayson Tatum

What a storied past!
GoDuke!

[Edouble]

Not even close. Burgess' prep reputation was in free fall by the end of his senior season. Battier was much more highly regarded.

And Randolph was the consensus No. 14 player in his prep class. There was no RSCI for the prep class of 1997 but Battier would have been around 5-7. He was a HUGE get.

Battier did improve over his four years, especially as a 3-point shooter. But the overwhelming majority of college players improve over the course of a three or four-year career. People keep citing players like Carlos Boozer-consensus No. 8 in his class-or Ryan Kelly-No. 14 in his class when increased playing time and/or enhanced roles is more of a factor than the normal progression they showed. Battier was a freshman on a team that included 6-8 senior All-America forward Roshown McLeod. Duke didn't ask him to do as much in 1998 as they asked him to do in 2000. Ryan Kelly backed up junior Kyle Singler, senior Lance Thomas and more-athletic classmate Mason Plumlee in 2010. The minutes just weren't there.

Again all of Battier, Boozer and Kelly and others got better as their careers progressed. But excluding players whose careers were negatively impacted by injuries or off-court issues (e.g. Ricky Price), we can say that about darn near anybody who played basketball at Duke or anywhere else. That's how it works.

This thread is not about performance versus final ranking though. It's about improvement over a player's time at Duke.

While it was not my answer, Ryan Kelly, IMO, is an excellent response. Coach K said that if he had to do it all over again, he would have red shirted Kelly. If you're good enough to crack the rotation as a freshman at Duke, you will play. Kelly had tremendous improvement in his four years at Duke.

Regarding Shav, Burgess, I commented not final ranking nor prep reputation, but on their recruitment. Intensity of recruitment, I would say. Shav's recruitment was at generational levels. My recollection is that Burgess' recruitment his junior year was through the roof. He was ranked #1 during that time.

By the time that class arrived in Durham, for sure, Burgess' rep was losing steam, and after the first week of practice, Elton was getting all the hype. I do not remember the kind of peak buzz around Battier's recruitment that Burgess had. Shav is really not debatable. Can not think of another recruitment that Duke was involved with post-2000 that was that crazy. The Okafor/Jones package was pretty big, but not as intense IIRC.

[devilseven]

Patrick Davidson - came in as a walk-on, left as a legend!

[jimsumner]

This thread is not about performance versus final ranking though. It's about improvement over a player's time at Duke.

While it was not my answer, Ryan Kelly, IMO, is an excellent response. Coach K said that if he had to do it all over again, he would have red shirted Kelly. If you're good enough to crack the rotation as a freshman at Duke, you will play. Kelly had tremendous improvement in his four years at Duke.

Regarding Shav, Burgess, I commented not final ranking nor prep reputation, but on their recruitment. Intensity of recruitment, I would say. Shav's recruitment was at generational levels. My recollection is that Burgess' recruitment his junior year was through the roof. He was ranked #1 during that time.

By the time that class arrived in Durham, for sure, Burgess' rep was losing steam, and after the first week of practice, Elton was getting all the hype. I do not remember the kind of peak buzz around Battier's recruitment that Burgess had. Shav is really not debatable. Can not think of another recruitment that Duke was involved with post-2000 that was that crazy. The Okafor/Jones package was pretty big, but not as intense IIRC.

RE: Randolph. What is "not debatable?"

Randolph's recruitment was interesting in that he was a priority target for all three Triangle schools. Duke recruits against Carolina all the time but not all that often against State. But Jerry Stackhouse and Ryan Kelly were also heavily recruited by all three Triangle schools.

I'm not sure what you mean by "crazy" in terms of Randolph's commitment or how that relates to the original thread topic. But since 2000 Duke has recruited a lot of top-10 talents against historic blue-bloods and most of them turned out to be much better college players than Shavlik Randolph. Harrison Barnes? Pretty crazy. Zion Williamson? Pretty crazy. Brandon Ingram? Pretty crazy.

Certainly no one would argue that Randolph dramatic improvements while at Duke. In fact, it could be argued the other way. Look at his first couple of games. If someone had told you then that Randolph would have gone undrafted after three years at Duke you would have thought they were crazy.

But the fact of the matter is that Shavlik Randolph was not a top-10 recruit in high school at the time he signed with Duke.

[dukelifer]

Patrick Davidson - came in as a walk-on, left as a legend!

He was a legend when he arrived- it just took a little while until everyone found out.

[Edouble]

RE: Randolph. What is "not debatable?"

Randolph's recruitment was interesting in that he was a priority target for all three Triangle schools. Duke recruits against Carolina all the time but not all that often against State. But Jerry Stackhouse and Ryan Kelly were also heavily recruited by all three Triangle schools.

I'm not sure what you mean by "crazy" in terms of Randolph's commitment or how that relates to the original thread topic. But since 2000 Duke has recruited a lot of top-10 talents against historic blue-bloods and most of them turned out to be much better college players than Shavlik Randolph. Harrison Barnes? Pretty crazy. Zion Williamson? Pretty crazy. Brandon Ingram? Pretty crazy.

Certainly no one would argue that Randolph dramatic improvements while at Duke. In fact, it could be argued the other way. Look at his first couple of games. If someone had told you then that Randolph would have gone undrafted after three years at Duke you would have thought they were crazy.

But the fact of the matter is that Shavlik Randolph was not a top-10 recruit in high school at the time he signed with Duke.

I never mentioned anything regarding Randolph's play at Duke. Outside of the 2004 Tournament, it was disappointing overall, especially when he came out of the gates blazing in his first game.

What I mean by crazy was how all three triangle schools and Florida were heavily involved and he was considered the top recruit in the country. The degree to which the schools involved pulled out the big guns: Jordan in a Shav Country shirt, Billy D getting on a plane to wave to Shav across a parking lot, then flying back home, etc etc

http://www.espn.com.br/dickvitale/vcolumn010821ShavlikRandolph.html

The race for prized 6-foot-10 recruit Shavlik Randolph has been heating up. Randolph is rated as the nation's premier high school player by recruiting guru Bob Gibbons.
-Dick Vitale

http://www.espn.com/recruiting/s/hodge145.html

Randolph's heated Tobacco Road recruiting battle reminded many of the efforts made by the ACC rivals to sign David Thompson in 1971.
--ESPN

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/kansas-makes-up-ground-for-shavlik-randolph

Randolph is considered one of the top players in the class of 2002 and perhaps the best player in this year's class.

https://www.espn.com/ncb/columns/doyel_gregg/1258878.html

During a recruiting period when coaches can't visit or call high school players, Donovan flew from Gainesville, Fla., to Raleigh, then rented a car and drove it into the Broughton High parking lot. There he waited until Randolph showed up for school, waved at him, then drove back to the airport.

Duke didn't need Shavlik Randolph, who entered the summer as the No. 1 rising high school senior in the country. But Duke got him, and recruiting analyst Bob Gibbons knows what all of it means.

"We could be looking," he said, "at the makings of another UCLA-type dynasty."

Randolph, a rising senior at Raleigh's Broughton High, is more than the cherry on top. He is an entire ice cream sundae unto himself, a 6-foot-10 forward with the sweet shooting stroke of a guard, the work habits of a marine and the bloodlines of an All-American.

[jimsumner]

I never mentioned anything regarding Randolph's play at Duke. Outside of the 2004 Tournament, it was disappointing overall, especially when he came out of the gates blazing in his first game.

What I mean by crazy was how all three triangle schools and Florida were heavily involved and he was considered the top recruit in the country. The degree to which the schools involved pulled out the big guns: Jordan in a Shav Country shirt, Billy D getting on a plane to wave to Shav across a parking lot, then flying back home, etc etc

http://www.espn.com.br/dickvitale/vcolumn010821ShavlikRandolph.html

The race for prized 6-foot-10 recruit Shavlik Randolph has been heating up. Randolph is rated as the nation's premier high school player by recruiting guru Bob Gibbons.
-Dick Vitale

http://www.espn.com/recruiting/s/hodge145.html

Randolph's heated Tobacco Road recruiting battle reminded many of the efforts made by the ACC rivals to sign David Thompson in 1971.
--ESPN

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/kansas-makes-up-ground-for-shavlik-randolph

Randolph is considered one of the top players in the class of 2002 and perhaps the best player in this year's class.

https://www.espn.com/ncb/columns/doyel_gregg/1258878.html

During a recruiting period when coaches can't visit or call high school players, Donovan flew from Gainesville, Fla., to Raleigh, then rented a car and drove it into the Broughton High parking lot. There he waited until Randolph showed up for school, waved at him, then drove back to the airport.

Duke didn't need Shavlik Randolph, who entered the summer as the No. 1 rising high school senior in the country. But Duke got him, and recruiting analyst Bob Gibbons knows what all of it means.

"We could be looking," he said, "at the makings of another UCLA-type dynasty."

Randolph, a rising senior at Raleigh's Broughton High, is more than the cherry on top. He is an entire ice cream sundae unto himself, a 6-foot-10 forward with the sweet shooting stroke of a guard, the work habits of a marine and the bloodlines of an All-American.

Way too much reliance on Bob Gibbons for my taste.

I could link a bunch of posts about Duke's recruitment of Harrison Barnes, which was pretty crazy.

And again, the point of the thread is players who improved the most at Duke, so why is anyone even discussing Shavlik Randolph?

[King of Defense]

Different answer to a different question: JJ made the most of his potential. Can’t jump. T-Rex arms. Still playing a GREAT NBA career.

I read once that only two NBA players (at the time of writing) had a wingspan that was less than their height.

One was Yao Ming, who had a unique physique even by basketball standards.

The other? You guessed it ... JJ.

[bundabergdevil]

I read once that only two NBA players (at the time of writing) had a wingspan that was less than their height.

One was Yao Ming, who had a unique physique even by basketball standards.

The other? You guessed it ... JJ.

I think there are a few players every year who can claim that inauspicious ratio. Not many but a few. Tyler Herro was one last draft (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/fl-sp-miami-heat-tyler-herro-20190624-j6mviysdlnf2xdjefrjj7lzjom-story.html), for example.

There's also this promising prospect. I don't even think the Raptors would give him trouble.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfGDl6z7Vzs

[duke96]

Agreed.:cool:

+1. Zoubek for sure

[luvdahops]

I’d offer up a pair of Hendersons - Phil and Gerald - for consideration.

[wsb3]

I’d offer up a pair of Hendersons - Phil and Gerald - for consideration.

I always thought Phil had one of the most underrated senior years of any Duke player.

[luvdahops]

I always thought Phil had one of the most underrated senior years of any Duke player.

Agreed - 18.5 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.5 spg, 41.4% on 3s and leading scorer; 2nd team All-ACC, 1st team All-ACC Tournament and NCAA All-Tournament Team

Strong finish to a pretty steady upward progression:

Freshman year - 7.3 ppg in 8 games (all non-conference) as a reserve, but academically ineligible for 2nd semester

Sophomore year - 5.9 ppg, 26.8% on 3s as the primary reserve guard, backing up Quin Snyder and Kevin Strickland

Junior year - 12.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.6 apg, 38.7% on 3s, and second-leading scorer (behind Danny Ferry) as the starting SG (plus the epic dunk over Mourning in the Elite Eight)

[jv001]

Too lazy to look at previous posts, so I apologize if these two players have been named. John Smith and Kevin Strickland. Both became very important players at the end of their careers.

GoDuke!

[Music man55]

I'm going to say Justin Robinson. What a shame that young man didn't get the chance to compete in the post season this past year. No telling what he might have accomplished and the role he would have played in what might have been a final four appearance.

[quahog174]

Friends, the answer is Michael Savarino. His progression from infancy to basketball team while at Duke has been quite impressive.

[throatybeard]

Speedo Guy.

[dukelifer]

Speedo Guy.

Last Speedo guy got chastised by Dick Vitale