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loran16
07-02-2020, 10:14 AM
Duke is officially looking for a new women's basketball coach:

https://twitter.com/TheNextHoops/status/1278691512394620929

Stray Gator
07-02-2020, 10:15 AM
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article243952172.html

"Joanne P. McCallie has resigned as Duke’s women’s basketball coach after 13 seasons, the school announced Thursday morning.

The decision is effective immediately.

In a video message posted on the team’s Twitter account, McCallie said she was stepping away because she is entering the final year of her contract and no agreement on an extension has been reached."

hallcity
07-02-2020, 10:24 AM
FINALLY! Why didn't this happen years ago?

August West
07-02-2020, 10:24 AM
I guess she didn't like her pay being cut. AW.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 10:28 AM
I guess she didn't like her pay being cut. AW.

it's not uncommon for coaches to leave if they don't have an extension lined up, but those coaches are usually expecting to go coach elsewhere. If that's mccallie's goal, then it makes sense. If she was going to retire anyway, I don't see why you wouldn't suffer through a potentially lame duck season and part ways with another million, or whatever it was.


In any case, I hope she stays healthy.

Mike Corey
07-02-2020, 10:28 AM
Very, very excited for the future of Duke women's basketball.

As Coach McCallie said in her farewell remarks: It's time for change, growth, and security for the program.

scottdude8
07-02-2020, 10:30 AM
Interesting. I have to imagine that we'll be learning a LOT more about the sudden nature of this decision in the coming days (although without The Chronicle currently on campus maybe not, as it is student journalists who would often do the digging into a story like this that isn't MBB or FB).

I've never been a fan of McCallie going back to when I was a student: in the few WBB games I covered for The Chronicle I found her gameplanning and in-game decision making clearly subpar. Yet, she continued to do relatively well recruiting. Especially in the past 5-10 years Duke's WBB has reminded me a bit of Texas MBB: a program that consistently pulled in top recruits but never performed up to the level of the recruiting rankings.

I think Duke now has a serious decision to make: do we want to compete for National Titles in WBB, or are we content being a Top-25 program? The last few years have shown that the landscape of the women's game is changing, with UConn being slightly less dominant and a wider variety of teams becoming competitive at the national level. Duke has all the tools built in to lay claim to one of those spots at the top of the sport, so I hope the athletic department aims high in their coaching search.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 10:35 AM
Interesting. I have to imagine that we'll be learning a LOT more about the sudden nature of this decision in the coming days (although without The Chronicle currently on campus maybe not, as it is student journalists who would often do the digging into a story like this that isn't MBB or FB).

I've never been a fan of McCallie going back to when I was a student: in the few WBB games I covered for The Chronicle I found her gameplanning and in-game decision making clearly subpar. Yet, she continued to do relatively well recruiting. Especially in the past 5-10 years Duke's WBB has reminded me a bit of Texas MBB: a program that consistently pulled in top recruits but never performed up to the level of the recruiting rankings.

I think Duke now has a serious decision to make: do we want to compete for National Titles in WBB, or are we content being a Top-25 program? The last few years have shown that the landscape of the women's game is changing, with UConn being slightly less dominant and a wider variety of teams becoming competitive at the national level. Duke has all the tools built in to lay claim to one of those spots at the top of the sport, so I hope the athletic department aims high in their coaching search.

I don't think there is going to be a mccallie caliber coach out there right now (or at least the caliber that she appeared to be at when we signed her). Given the belt tightening, I am also skeptical we'll be able to pony up enough $ to lure such a coach were one to exist.

Vic Schaeffer's move to texas is a bit of a special case, as it's his hometown.

Duke will always have aspirations of success in any sport, and we will try to find the best coach we can for the program. I'm not an expert on up-and-coming coaches, but Duke is still an extremely enviable position. It will pay well enough, and has great facilities, history, basketball...etc. I imagine we will find some aspiring promising coach who just needs a environment like Duke to succeed.



I don't imagine there's much to the "sudden nature" of the decision. It probably became evident that the department wasn't going to renew her contract, and so she called it quits. I imagine the uncertainty to the season and the decreased pay made it not worth it to grin and bear it.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
07-02-2020, 10:46 AM
Oh, I see. I was on the wrong thread searching for calm and level-headed discussion. I don't follow our women's team very carefully, but I know McCallie brings up strong opinions.

OZZIE4DUKE
07-02-2020, 11:02 AM
I don't think there is going to be a mccallie caliber coach out there right now (or at least the caliber that she appeared to be at when we signed her). Given the belt tightening, I am also skeptical we'll be able to pony up enough $ to lure such a coach were one to exist.

Duke will always have aspirations of success in any sport, and we will try to find the best coach we can for the program. I'm not an expert on up-and-coming coaches, but Duke is still an extremely enviable position. It will pay well enough, and has great facilities, history, basketball...etc. I imagine we will find some aspiring promising coach who just needs a environment like Duke to succeed.


I'm very glad to read that she has decided to move on.

Now, as far as a successor, here's a suggestion that is both "out of the box" and yet still "in the box".
> Chris Carrawell <

C-Well was an assistant on the women's team a few years ago, before moving to various men's team positions in the office before moving to the bench as an assistant coach. Without first hand knowledge, I believe he does want to be a head coach at some point, and this could be the opportunity to get one.http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

hallcity
07-02-2020, 11:02 AM
I don't think there is going to be a mccallie caliber coach out there right now (or at least the caliber that she appeared to be at when we signed her). Given the belt tightening, I am also skeptical we'll be able to pony up enough $ to lure such a coach were one to exist.

Vic Schaeffer's move to texas is a bit of a special case, as it's his hometown.

Duke will always have aspirations of success in any sport, and we will try to find the best coach we can for the program. I'm not an expert on up-and-coming coaches, but Duke is still an extremely enviable position. It will pay well enough, and has great facilities, history, basketball...etc. I imagine we will find some aspiring promising coach who just needs a environment like Duke to succeed.



I don't imagine there's much to the "sudden nature" of the decision. It probably became evident that the department wasn't going to renew her contract, and so she called it quits. I imagine the uncertainty to the season and the decreased pay made it not worth it to grin and bear it.

A "mccallie caliber coach"? Anyway, Coach Goestenkors is tan and rested. She just might be available.

sagegrouse
07-02-2020, 11:05 AM
Oh, I see. I was on the wrong thread searching for calm and level-headed discussion. I don't follow our women's team very carefully, but I know McCallie brings up strong opinions.

This is clearly, Mountain Devil, an emotional topic for the Board. I am sure that Kevin White has a lot of intelligence on who might be available. (I always imagine that ADs constantly talk to the headhunters in the coaching business -- people, compensation -- swapping info and rumors.)

I also expect that McCallie worked out some form of settlement with Duke.

By the way, in terms of being the "wrong time" to hire a coach, what else are potential coaching doing right now except sitting by the phone?

uh_no
07-02-2020, 11:11 AM
By the way, in terms of being the "wrong time" to hire a coach, what else are potential coaching doing right now except sitting by the phone?

I think it may be a GREAT time to hire a coach. The way things are going, who knows what will be able to happen this season. If the season is curtailed in any way, it gives a new incoming coach almost an entire year to be putting their team together. Except for a relatively small number of coaches, the opportunity to move to Duke, and have space to build up your program SHOULD be extremely enticing.

DukieInKansas
07-02-2020, 11:13 AM
This is clearly, Mountain Devil, an emotional topic for the Board. I am sure that Kevin White has a lot of intelligence on who might be available. (I always imagine that ADs constantly talk to the headhunters in the coaching business -- people, compensation -- swapping info and rumors.)

I also expect that McCallie worked out some form of settlement with Duke.

By the way, in terms of being the "wrong time" to hire a coach, what else are potential coaching doing right now except sitting by the phone?

Her statement indicated she is passing on her final year compensation so not sure what kind of settlement there is.

throatybeard
07-02-2020, 11:14 AM
10979

ehdg
07-02-2020, 11:41 AM
A "mccallie caliber coach"? Anyway, Coach Goestenkors is tan and rested. She just might be available.

First I've been a huge fan of Coach G from her days at Duke. I was quite upset with our AD at the time, Alleva, for letting her go and not extending her contract before it ran out!! Being as the Women's season
isn't that far from now I think Coach G would be a great get again. I think she still has the fire and love for Duke. Hopefully she has connections for recruits still but but if not she could bring in some good strong
assistants that know the recruiting still well and could help her with that aspect. I truly Duke checks in with Coach G and see if she's interested in coming back even if it's just a stop gap/seat filler for a few seasons
till she either grooms a young assistant or we find a young up and comer we'd like in say 5 years.

As for Coach P I've long not been a fan of hers. But I have to give her credit for realizing that her time at Duke was pretty much over and walking away with honor and giving Duke a chance to start the rebuild regroup
sooner and with a better chance of turning it around faster.

Jedweb
07-02-2020, 11:48 AM
My reaction is an unqualified HALLELUJAH! For several years she did have recruiting going at a really high level, somewhat surprisingly because if memory serves when she was hired she said that was the part of the job she liked lease, or felt the least confident in, or something of the sort. And, from time to time she did have a game in which her players really performed well and surpassed expectations. That having been said, there were just far too many games in which her team appeared to be on a part talent wise with an opponent but got blown out. Several of the games against Geno were embarrassing because of the enormous difference in play on the court. And it happened far too frequently. How many, many games with turnovers around twenty, sometimes more. Bottom line in my inexpert view is that she simply did not have the talent to be a top flight coach. She's been very well compensated for her time at Duke, and unless she's financially profligate she ought to be financially secure. If, as the announcement indicates, she has foregone the remaining contract compensation, or most of it, I think Duke fans owe her our thanks, and i am certainly happy that she resigned in time for a new coach to be well in place before the 20 - 21 season begins (if there is one) and for recruiting not to go completely to pot. In fact, the announcement may well enhance recruiting quickly.

Jedweb
07-02-2020, 11:50 AM
PAR talent wise

dm9e24
07-02-2020, 11:58 AM
Would like to see us go after Lindsey Hardin or Alana Beard. Hopefully duplicate what Dawn Staley has done at South Carolina as a former player turned coach. Their connections with Coach G's program would be invaluable. I believe they both could recruit well at Duke. Their experiences in the professional ranks would also be a plus.

I am not sure what either one earns presently, but we probably would not have to break the bank to hire them.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 11:59 AM
First I've been a huge fan of Coach G from her days at Duke. I was quite upset with our AD at the time, Alleva, for letting her go and not extending her contract before it ran out!! Being as the Women's season
isn't that far from now I think Coach G would be a great get again. I think she still has the fire and love for Duke. Hopefully she has connections for recruits still but but if not she could bring in some good strong
assistants that know the recruiting still well and could help her with that aspect. I truly Duke checks in with Coach G and see if she's interested in coming back even if it's just a stop gap/seat filler for a few seasons
till she either grooms a young assistant or we find a young up and comer we'd like in say 5 years.

As for Coach P I've long not been a fan of hers. But I have to give her credit for realizing that her time at Duke was pretty much over and walking away with honor and giving Duke a chance to start the rebuild regroup
sooner and with a better chance of turning it around faster.

I love G, but I don't think that's the right move. The price would be high, and as you point out, your resigning the HC to a "stop gap" position.

Hire for the future now.

I feel like this is like the USMNT hiring Bruce Arena a couple years ago....because that worked out so well.

miramar
07-02-2020, 12:04 PM
I'm out of bourbon and I'm too scared to go out and get another bottle, so how am I going to celebrate this?

Oh, well, I'm sure I'll think of something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM2eLhvsSM

Phredd3
07-02-2020, 12:12 PM
Her statement indicated she is passing on her final year compensation so not sure what kind of settlement there is.

No, it said she is foregoing "the majority of her compensation". Taken literally, that's a range from $1 to around $700K. I'd guess she got a several hundred K parachute, but that's probably worth it from a Duke point of view to get a new hire in quickly to try to turn the recruiting ship around. Depending on who the hire is (my money is on Beard), there's still time to land good prospects for '21-'22. Given that the team comes back to campus at the end of the month, I'm guessing the new hire will be announced over this weekend.

jimsumner
07-02-2020, 12:12 PM
The pay cut was not a factor. This decision didn't come out of nowhere. It wasn't spur-of-the-moment.

Her husband has retired from teaching, their daughter has graduated and is out in the world and their son is at Northwestern, rising sophomore I believe.

So, they are empty nesters and presumably have the financial resources to do whatever they want, wherever they want.

I do not expect to see her coaching again. But I can see her behind a microphone someday. If Seth Greenberg can make the move then McCallie can.

Big question. Does Duke still have a hiring freeze and if so, are they willing to suspend it for this hire? If not, then one of the assistants becomes an interim.

Look for Gail Goestenkors' name to be floated around. A lot. But Duke needs to find out if she's serious about jumping back into the game at age 57. It's one thing to muse about it publicly. It's another thing to commit to the work and it's a lot of work.

Duke alums Alana Beard, Lindsey Harding and Joy Cheek are all out there. But head coach?

Or does Duke go the younger, cheaper route? Lots of talented, hungry 30-somethings would jump at the chance. I mean turn cartwheels, Simone-Biles level jumping.

I absolutely think Duke's reputation or profile or "brand" is still very, very high and the right hire can and will put Duke back in the nationally elite category in a few years. Not next year, maybe not 2022. But definitely by 2023.

I wish McCallie well. She's always been open and candid with me and I have no doubt she did her level best to win games the right way. She's been involved in things like cancer research and mental-health issues and by involved, I mean really involved. She deserves respect for that.

But 13 years is a long time to be a head coach at a high-profile program. It was always an awkward match and eventually it just became unsustainable.

Next play.

nmduke2001
07-02-2020, 12:14 PM
Maybe the second half of 2020 won't be so bad after all!

rocketeli
07-02-2020, 12:22 PM
I remember the last time a Duke basketball program hired a coach that wasn't already a "big name" and IIRC it worked out pretty well.

Phredd3
07-02-2020, 12:26 PM
Big question. Does Duke still have a hiring freeze and if so, are they willing to suspend it for this hire? If not, then one of the assistants becomes an interim.
Duke does still have a hiring freeze, but hiring and compensation policies expressly do not apply to contracted positions. Given the position the team was in, I would be shocked if the trustees didn't approve an immediate move.


Look for Gail Goestenkors' name to be floated around. A lot. But Duke needs to find out if she's serious about jumping back into the game at age 57. It's one thing to muse about it publicly. It's another thing to commit to the work and it's a lot of work.

Duke alums Alana Beard, Lindsey Harding and Joy Cheek are all out there. But head coach?
Goestenkors would be a mistake, IMO. That's a look backward, and she was at a very high level when she left Duke. Her time at Texas doesn't really count from an expectation point of view. Anything less that a Natty would still be regarded as a failure for her, and she'd only get four recruiting classes to make that happen. That's a big ask for someone who's been out of coaching for that long.

Agree with the concerns about players who have never coached before, but both have been pros and have seen a lot of the behind-the-scenes action at the next level. I think they could handle it, at a relative bargain price, and if they don't work out, it would be easy enough to cut bait in three or four years and hire a marquee name once sports are more or less back to normal operations. This year is going to be a challenge for anyone, and a young, fresh coach won't have preconceived notions about how things "should" be going.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 12:26 PM
Big question. Does Duke still have a hiring freeze and if so, are they willing to suspend it for this hire? If not, then one of the assistants becomes an interim.


there are hoops to jump through, but people have been hired. I imagine such a position might follow different rules than your everyday ho-hum positions.

dukelifer
07-02-2020, 12:27 PM
The pay cut was not a factor. This decision didn't come out of nowhere. It wasn't spur-of-the-moment.

Her husband has retired from teaching, their daughter has graduated and is out in the world and their son is at Northwestern, rising sophomore I believe.

So, they are empty nesters and presumably have the financial resources to do whatever they want, wherever they want.

I do not expect to see her coaching again. But I can see her behind a microphone someday. If Seth Greenberg can make the move then McCallie can.

Big question. Does Duke still have a hiring freeze and if so, are they willing to suspend it for this hire? If not, then one of the assistants becomes an interim.

Look for Gail Goestenkors' name to be floated around. A lot. But Duke needs to find out if she's serious about jumping back into the game at age 57. It's one thing to muse about it publicly. It's another thing to commit to the work and it's a lot of work.

Duke alums Alana Beard, Lindsey Harding and Joy Cheek are all out there. But head coach?

Or does Duke go the younger, cheaper route? Lots of talented, hungry 30-somethings would jump at the chance. I mean turn cartwheels, Simone-Biles level jumping.

I absolutely think Duke's reputation or profile or "brand" is still very, very high and the right hire can and will put Duke back in the nationally elite category in a few years. Not next year, maybe not 2022. But definitely by 2023.

I wish McCallie well. She's always been open and candid with me and I have no doubt she did her level best to win games the right way. She's been involved in things like cancer research and mental-health issues and by involved, I mean really involved. She deserves respect for that.

But 13 years is a long time to be a head coach at a high-profile program. It was always an awkward match and eventually it just became unsustainable.

Next play.

There is no question that Duke will get a good coach but Duke will have limited resources to hire. She did a good job early - Duke has its moments during her tenure- but the reputation of Duke Women’s Basketball dropped under her and that is a shame. We will see what the future brings.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 12:30 PM
There is no question that Duke will get a good coach but Duke will have limited resources to hire. She did a good job early - Duke has its moments during her tenure- but the reputation of Duke Women’s Basketball dropped under her and that is a shame. We will see what the future brings.

While the performance and reputation of the team dropped, I don't think it will have too much of an impact on the desirability of the position, fortunately. Duke is still duke, and has all the benfits that come with that

- being duke
- cameron
- the athletics facilities
- the UNC rivalry

CameronBlue
07-02-2020, 12:33 PM
Oh, I see. I was on the wrong thread searching for calm and level-headed discussion. I don't follow our women's team very carefully, but I know McCallie brings up strong opinions.

I have occasionally commented about what I felt were the shortcomings of McCallie's teams but I don't see this as a day to celebrate. I do see it as a day that provides an opportunity for DWB.

BD80
07-02-2020, 12:33 PM
... I can see her behind a microphone someday. If Seth Greenberg can make the move then McCallie can.

...


If Seth Greenberg can make the move then Gollum can.


As this season teeters on the brink due to Covid-19, this could be an interesting time for all programs, but particularly new coaches. If a player were to transfer to Duke this summer, but the 20-21 season is not played, would the player be eligible in 21-22 for Duke? Would that burn a year of eligibility?

I would think that Duke can offer athletes an extra measure of security in living and training in a Covid world, particularly basketball players, with the investments made in training facilities, health monitoring, etc and with its association to a world class medical facility.

This is a very ripe opportunity for the right coach who has Coach K like management skills. If any exist.

budwom
07-02-2020, 12:34 PM
another way of putting is that it'll be easier to follow McCallie than it will be to follow K.....hope Kevin White puts on his thinking cap for this one...

jimsumner
07-02-2020, 12:40 PM
The bring-back-Goestenkors crowd cites Mack Brown as an example of you-can-go-home-again.

One scenario that has been floated to me is GG comes back on a term-limited contract, with Beard as the top assistant and designated successor.

Learn the ropes.

I would love to have Alana Beard back at Duke. She's bright, articulate and has the personality that should translate to immediate success on the recruiting trail. And great name recognition. But there's a learning curve, not just the X's and O's part but also the CEO running a big program part. Is she able to hit the ground running?

Same questions with Harding.

dudog84
07-02-2020, 12:40 PM
We need to show some respect for this decision. By my calculation she's walking away from over a million dollars and giving Duke a year jump start to rebuild. Since she won't be coaching again, it would have been very easy for her to take the money and say screw all y'all. Let it go.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 12:40 PM
If Seth Greenberg can make the move then Gollum can.


As this season teeters on the brink due to Covid-19, this could be an interesting time for all programs, but particularly new coaches. If a player were to transfer to Duke this summer, but the 20-21 season is not played, would the player be eligible in 21-22 for Duke? Would that burn a year of eligibility?

I would think that Duke can offer athletes an extra measure of security in living and training in a Covid world, particularly basketball players, with the investments made in training facilities, health monitoring, etc and with its association to a world class medical facility.

This is a very ripe opportunity for the right coach who has Coach K like management skills. If any exist.

While I don't give the NCAA credit often, they did the right thing extending eligibility for spring athletes. I'd imagine they'd be sane here and count the missed season as the sit-out year....but who knows...

gadzooks
07-02-2020, 12:42 PM
Would like to see us go after Lindsey Hardin or Alana Beard. Hopefully duplicate what Dawn Staley has done at South Carolina as a former player turned coach. Their connections with Coach G's program would be invaluable. I believe they both could recruit well at Duke. Their experiences in the professional ranks would also be a plus.

I am not sure what either one earns presently, but we probably would not have to break the bank to hire them.

Alana retired from the WNBA this spring, and started a new career at a VC firm, so whether she'd want to forgo that to coach would be a question, but who knows? They can always ask. She also started broadcasting with the ACC Network, though only got a couple chances to do that before everything was called off, so maybe she would want to get back into basketball.

DU82
07-02-2020, 12:43 PM
Would like to see us go after Lindsey Hardin or Alana Beard. Hopefully duplicate what Dawn Staley has done at South Carolina as a former player turned coach. Their connections with Coach G's program would be invaluable. I believe they both could recruit well at Duke. Their experiences in the professional ranks would also be a plus.

I am not sure what either one earns presently, but we probably would not have to break the bank to hire them.

Dawn Staley was an established coach at Temple before heading to USC. (Most coaches are former players, of course.)

The more direct players to coaches include Minnesota and Virginia, and the jury’s still out on those recent moves.

Phredd3
07-02-2020, 12:46 PM
One scenario that has been floated to me is GG comes back on a term-limited contract, with Beard as the top assistant and designated successor.

If Beard, as future head coach, were willing to accept such a scenario, that would be great, IMO. But I can think of reasons both for and against that from her point of view.

OZZIE4DUKE
07-02-2020, 12:54 PM
Now, as far as a successor, here's a suggestion that is both "out of the box" and yet still "in the box".
> Chris Carrawell <

C-Well was an assistant on the women's team a few years ago, before moving to various men's team positions in the office before moving to the bench as an assistant coach. Without first hand knowledge, I believe he does want to be a head coach at some point, and this could be the opportunity to get one.http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif
No comments on my suggestion? I'm surprised.http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

CameronBornAndBred
07-02-2020, 12:59 PM
Yesssssssssss!!!!!!

jimsumner
07-02-2020, 01:04 PM
No comments on my suggestion? I'm surprised.http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Some of the best WBB coaches in the ACC are men. But given the social dynamics of 2020 hiring a man might cause some pushback.

And technically, I don't think he was a WBB coach at Duke. Something more along the lines of administrative assistant, IIRC.

dm9e24
07-02-2020, 01:13 PM
Dawn Staley was an established coach at Temple before heading to USC. (Most coaches are former players, of course.)

The more direct players to coaches include Minnesota and Virginia, and the jury’s still out on those recent moves.

Yes, I should have typed Temple AND South Carolina. And my apologies to Lindsey for not seeing that spell check actually spelled her last name incorrectly

All that being said, we would be fortunate to get a coach that has has had Dawn's success.

dudog84
07-02-2020, 01:21 PM
The top recruit in 2021 (and 3 others in the top 15) is still available, and she's supposed to be a once in 5- to 10-years talent. That's what wins you national championships. I wonder if the right coach would give us a shot at her. She's a 5'11" guard, Alana's a 5'11" guard...

mph
07-02-2020, 01:30 PM
I'm out of bourbon and I'm too scared to go out and get another bottle, so how am I going to celebrate this?

Oh, well, I'm sure I'll think of something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VM2eLhvsSM

If you’re too scared to get a bottle of bourbon, you’re too scared! I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that ingesting bourbon kills coronavirus. I’ll have to look for the link. 😛

OldPhiKap
07-02-2020, 01:34 PM
Best of luck to Coach P. Next play for us. LGD!

CrazyNotCrazie
07-02-2020, 01:39 PM
The bring-back-Goestenkors crowd cites Mack Brown as an example of you-can-go-home-again.

One scenario that has been floated to me is GG comes back on a term-limited contract, with Beard as the top assistant and designated successor.

Learn the ropes.

I would love to have Alana Beard back at Duke. She's bright, articulate and has the personality that should translate to immediate success on the recruiting trail. And great name recognition. But there's a learning curve, not just the X's and O's part but also the CEO running a big program part. Is she able to hit the ground running?

Same questions with Harding.

Why would Coach G do that? She is only 57. I'm not suggesting that she wants to coach until she is 73+ like Coach K, but she has plenty of coaching ahead of her. She made it clear this spring that she wants to get back to coaching. It makes no sense.

If we were bringing back a former player, I would feel more confident in Harding than Beard - Harding at least has a few years of experience around a basketball team as a non-player. But to your point, there is a lot that goes into running a major college program. And that job is now a lot more complicated given all of the changes related to COVID-19. If a former player came in, they would need a top assistant with a lot of experience, preferably in women's college coaching. If only Pete Gaudet wasn't a little younger! (for those who don't know, he was an assistant women's coach after leaving Duke).

One other point - I don't know much about the business side of college sports. But today is the second day of the University's fiscal year. Might that be part of the timing? Perhaps there are some benefits for her being on the payroll into the new fiscal?

killerleft
07-02-2020, 01:45 PM
The bring-back-Goestenkors crowd cites Mack Brown as an example of you-can-go-home-again.

One scenario that has been floated to me is GG comes back on a term-limited contract, with Beard as the top assistant and designated successor.

Learn the ropes.

I would love to have Alana Beard back at Duke. She's bright, articulate and has the personality that should translate to immediate success on the recruiting trail. And great name recognition. But there's a learning curve, not just the X's and O's part but also the CEO running a big program part. Is she able to hit the ground running?

Same questions with Harding.

The term-limited contract for Goestenkors is the only way I'd want her back. And having favorite daughter Alana Beard waiting in the wings is intriguing. So far, this is the top idea I've heard.

So - it's settled?:D:o

throatybeard
07-02-2020, 01:48 PM
The bring-back-Goestenkors crowd cites Mack Brown as an example of you-can-go-home-again.

One scenario that has been floated to me is GG comes back on a term-limited contract, with Beard as the top assistant and designated successor.

Learn the ropes.

I would love to have Alana Beard back at Duke. She's bright, articulate and has the personality that should translate to immediate success on the recruiting trail. And great name recognition. But there's a learning curve, not just the X's and O's part but also the CEO running a big program part. Is she able to hit the ground running?

Same questions with Harding.




Everyone knows I'm the biggest GG fan. I'd probably wet myself with glee if she comes back, whether it's a good idea or not. Just cause I love her. But.

If everything knows that's the arrangement, I don't like the racial optics of the above arrangement. I wouldn't think so, perhaps, if Goestenkors were presently (a) still in head coaching and (b ) had succeeded at Texas, where she had a losing (!) record in conference games (40-42). I certainly wouldn't fuss if she had continuously run Duke WBB since 1993 and Beard were her top asst. But in reality in 2020, GG is out of coaching, and hasn't run a program at a top 10 level or anything like it since 2006-07. Society has changed since 2007, and I'd probably have more trust in, say, Alana Beard on that count.

So what you'd have is a lame-duck situation in the second half of the contract, and the lame duck would be a sixtyish placeholder deemed necessary to make the obvious AfAm successor somehow more acceptable in year five than in year one. Because experience yada yada.

Give Beard the job and the authority, or don't. Don't make her wait behind an un-retiree--about whom you have no idea whether the un-retiree is what she was in 1998-2007 or so. Otherwise you look too timid to just give Beard the dang job.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 01:57 PM
Everyone knows I'm the biggest GG fan. I'd probably wet myself with glee if she comes back, whether it's a good idea or not. Just cause I love her. But.

If everything knows that's the arrangement, I don't like the racial optics of the above arrangement. I wouldn't think so, perhaps, if Goestenkors were presently (a) still in coaching and (b ) had succeeded at Texas, where she had a losing (!) record in conference games (40-42). I certainly wouldn't fuss if she had continuously run Duke WBB since 1993 and Beard were her top asst. But in reality in 2020, GG is out of coaching, and hasn't run a program at a top 10 level or anything like it since 2006-07. Society has changed since 2007, and I'd probably have more trust in, say, Alana Beard on that count.

So what you'd have is a lame-duck situation in the second half of the contract, and the lame duck would be a sixtyish placeholder deemed necessary to make the obvious AfAm successor somehow more acceptable in year five than in year one. Because experience yada yada.

Give Beard the job and the authority, or don't. Don't make her wait behind an un-retiree--about whom you have no idea whether the un-retiree is what she was in 1998-2007 or so. Otherwise you look too timid to just give Beard the dang job.

i think that only really is an issue if beard really is the assumed successor, which i don't think is necessarily true, and if it is, it's not necessarily viewed as such to the general public.


That said, I agree with you. there's no point to bringinging in a coach with the stated purpose of coaching for 5 years. Might as well hire the following coach now...it's not like we're a great team with a championship window closing that we want to get the most out of for a couple of years and just need a replacement coach. The fact that G was the previous coach doesn't change that logic.

I have nothing against G, but I also don't necessarily think she brings much more to the table at this point....several years after a relatively poor stint at texas, 13 years after coaching at duke, to warrant elevating her to the top of any search list. Would we be interested in her if she hadn't been a prior duke coach? Likely not....so if we actually care about the future success of this program, we shouldn't settle for that now.

Though I wouldn't mind if they replaced the murals where they photoshopped P in with the originals....

CameronBlue
07-02-2020, 02:14 PM
If you’re too scared to get a bottle of bourbon, you’re too scared! I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that ingesting bourbon kills coronavirus. I’ll have to look for the link. ��

To hide my drinking problem from the In-Laws I transferred my bourbon to old hand sanitizer bottles. As they are ardent Trump supporters, drinking in front of them only elevates me in their esteem.

Steven43
07-02-2020, 02:17 PM
As for Coach P I've long not been a fan of hers. But I have to give her credit for realizing that her time at Duke was pretty much over and walking away with honor and giving Duke a chance to start the rebuild regroup sooner and with a better chance of turning it around faster.

I don’t know about that. I think McCallie should have resigned the moment Duke decided in the spring of 2016 to conduct an investigation into her and the women’s basketball program.

Duke basically wasted the past four seasons with a permanently-damaged McCallie. The moment a university decides to go to the extraordinary step of investigating its own coach the writing is generally on the wall. It’s usually just a matter of time before the whole thing comes tumbling down. And now it has.

Once it became clear McCallie was not going to resign Kevin White should have fired her. I still cannot believe he didn’t. It is a permanent stain on his record that will never be erased.

1991 duke law
07-02-2020, 02:18 PM
If you’re too scared to get a bottle of bourbon, you’re too scared! I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that ingesting bourbon kills coronavirus. I’ll have to look for the link. 😛

If this is true, me, my family and all of my friends are incredibly safe from the virus. Bourbon is in great danger though.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 02:19 PM
If this is true, me, my family and all of my friends are incredibly safe from the virus. Bourbon is in great danger though.

My quarantine project was to put a couple beer taps built into my kitchen. I hope it's strong enough.

roywhite
07-02-2020, 02:21 PM
If this is true, me, my family and all of my friends are incredibly safe from the virus. Bourbon is in great danger though.

We need a new coach who can make her mark.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 02:22 PM
We need a new coach who can make her mark.

perhaps sealed with red wax?

DU82
07-02-2020, 02:46 PM
How about Courtney Banghart?

(“Well, I know I’ve only been in Chapel Hill for a year, but I’ve seen enough of you cheaters. Off to better job, and I don’t even have to move!”)

uh_no
07-02-2020, 02:51 PM
How about Courtney Banghart?

(“Well, I know I’ve only been in Chapel Hill for a year, but I’ve seen enough of you cheaters. Off to better job, and I don’t even have to move!”)

I'll take OOC Banghart.....as ACC banghart was lackluster.

Phredd3
07-02-2020, 02:53 PM
In case anyone has any doubts about the value of punctuation, just think what a different thread this would be if the title were "McCallie re-signs".

BoiseDevil
07-02-2020, 02:59 PM
Would like to see us go after Lindsey Hardin or Alana Beard. Hopefully duplicate what Dawn Staley has done at South Carolina as a former player turned coach. Their connections with Coach G's program would be invaluable. I believe they both could recruit well at Duke. Their experiences in the professional ranks would also be a plus.

I am not sure what either one earns presently, but we probably would not have to break the bank to hire them.

How about Coach G for 2-3 years, grooming Hardin OR Beard to take over?

DU82
07-02-2020, 03:09 PM
I'll take OOC Banghart....as ACC banghart was lackluster.

Look what she had to work with.

(And, just in case anybody didn’t get it, my previous post should have started with “/sarcasmmodeon”)

CameronBornAndBred
07-02-2020, 03:40 PM
My vote has always been for someone that does have college coaching experience, both at Duke and elsewhere. Someone how has played in a Duke uniform, and became if not THE best recruiter that Duke has had, then one of the best.
I vote Joy Cheek.

Class of '94
07-02-2020, 03:51 PM
I don’t know about that. I think McCallie should have resigned the moment Duke decided in the spring of 2016 to conduct an investigation into her and the women’s basketball program.

Duke basically wasted the past four seasons with a permanently-damaged McCallie. The moment a university decides to go to the extraordinary step of investigating its own coach the writing is generally on the wall. It’s usually just a matter of time before the whole thing comes tumbling down. And now it has.

Once it became clear McCallie was not going to resign Kevin White should have fired her. I still cannot believe he didn’t. It is a permanent stain on his record that will never be erased.

In all fairness to Kevin White, he has been in a tough position with Coach P since he came to Duke. I'm not excusing his decisions but I get it. With no insider knowledge, I would imagine that he thought the HR investigation might have forced her to resign (i.e., she would quit on her own knowing that writing was on the wall with regards to not being retained once her current contract ended); but to P's credit, she didn't quit and basically dared White to fire her. If he had fired her, Duke would've owed her a lot of money. I believe she had retained a lawyer and was threatening a law suit against Duke if she was fired. White blinked; and allowed her to continue as HC once the HR report came back with nothing to support a "show cause" reason to fire McCallie. In hindsight, he probably should've had an outside firm come in and do the investigation; but again, I'm not sure he wanted to go to that expense to try to find proof of reasons to fire her and void the remaining years of her contract.

As far as extending her contract years earlier, I thought that was a mistake; but again, I get it. She was coming off some fairly successful recruiting runs and was going to the elite 8. At that time, I'm not sure if Coach G, Alana or Lindsey would have been interested in the Duke job; and I'm not sure there was a good choice out there that was interested. With no "perceived" good alternatives out there then, White probably felt he had no other choice but to continue with McCallie. He probably thought it was the best choice financially for the program as well. I thought there were signs years ago that this relationship with Coach P was not going to work out; but as some pointed out to me in the past, there were statistical data that provided arguably strong support for keeping P.

Personally, I think he was fine with the level of success McCallie had; and I don't think he was as focused on DWB winning NCs as he was getting Duke football back to being a legitimate program and keeping the DMB at an elite level. Obviously, one could argue that if this was the case, that thought process was part of the problem of why the DWB is in the position that it is now.

I think the real person to blame is Joe Alleva. IMO, he never should've forced Coach G out. He hired McCallie and thought she would be the one to get DWB over the hump and win NCs.

As far as the possibility of Coach G, I would love to have her back here. Count me as one of the ones that point to the success of Mack Brown as proof she would be successful again. Imo, let her coach at Duke for as long as she wants to and has the program at an elite level (which I believe she would do) while mentoring any or all of Alana, Lindsey, and Joy to be a HC; and potentially takeover the program whenever G was ready to step down this time. I could see G coaching into her 70s at Duke if she really wanted to come back to Duke and be the HC. I'm not concerned about any perceptions.

I don't take joy in seeing Coach P resigned. While I was not a fan of her coaching philosophies toward defense and offense, I do think she genuinely loved being at Duke, representing the school, and being the HC of DWB. I wish her and her family well as they move forward on their new journey. With that said, I am extremely excited about the direction the DWB program can now go; and I hope Kevin White chooses wisely. If he can get this hire right, I believe he can erase any damage he cause by letting this McCallie saga continue for so long.

fuse
07-02-2020, 03:54 PM
Ozzie’s Carrawell idea is intriguing.

I’m surprised with all the idea slinging related to GG and Beard that no one has suggested Beard as head coach, and GG in some special assistant role.

Class of '94
07-02-2020, 03:55 PM
Ozzie’s Carrawell idea is intriguing.

I’m surprised with all the idea slinging related to GG and Beard that no one has suggested Beard as head coach, and GG in some special assistant role.

I think GG wants to be a HC again in college and not a special assistant.

miramar
07-02-2020, 03:56 PM
I think McCallie should have resigned the moment Duke decided in the spring of 2016 to conduct an investigation into her and the women’s basketball program.

Duke basically wasted the past four seasons with a permanently-damaged McCallie. The moment a university decides to go to the extraordinary step of investigating its own coach the writing is generally on the wall. It’s usually just a matter of time before the whole thing comes tumbling down. And now it has.

Once it became clear McCallie was not going to resign Kevin White should have fired her. I still cannot believe he didn’t. It is a permanent stain on his record that will never be erased.

There is no question that once the press starting talking about all of the transfers, the many assistant coaches who left, and most seriously the alleged mistreatment of Duke WBB players, then everybody knew that recruiting was going to suffer and that Duke's won-loss record was going to suffer along with it. Nevertheless, I can certainly understand why McCallie would not walk away from a $1.3 million a year contract and why White would not want to eat (I think) $5.2 million to get her to leave.

So I would say that the real problem was giving McCallie an extension in (I think) 2016. That is something that I have never understood and I expect I am not alone.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 04:10 PM
As far as extending her contract years earlier, I thought that was a mistake; but again, I get it.

You absolve White of a lot in your post, and I agree to some degree....but to correct a fact: the contract extention came after the investigation. There is no white-washing of that one. It was and is still a major head scratcher for me. Maybe they figured they'd be sued if they didn't extend her....but that doesn't explain the extremely lucrative raise, incommensurate with the results she was providing relative to her peers.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand that one.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article76473752.html
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story?id=20490395&_slug_=duke-blue-devils-coach-joanne-p-mccallie-gets-contract-extension-2020-21

uh_no
07-02-2020, 04:11 PM
There is no question that once the press starting talking about all of the transfers, the many assistant coaches who left, and most seriously the alleged mistreatment of Duke WBB players, then everybody knew that recruiting was going to suffer and that Duke's won-loss record was going to suffer along with it. Nevertheless, I can certainly understand why McCallie would not walk away from a $1.3 million a year contract and why White would not want to eat (I think) $5.2 million to get her to leave.

So I would say that the real problem was giving McCallie an extension in (I think) 2016. That is something that I have never understood and I expect I am not alone.

It was 2017. a year after the investigation.

Indoor66
07-02-2020, 04:16 PM
I remember the last time a Duke basketball program hired a coach that wasn't already a "big name" and IIRC it worked out pretty well.

Lightning in a bottle is very rare.

JasonEvans
07-02-2020, 04:17 PM
Is it insane to throw out the name Katie Meier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Meier)? She is one of the greatest Duke players of all time and has had some nice success at Miami including 2011 when she was AP's National Coach of the Year. Taking out her first 5 years, when she was building up what was one of the worst programs in the conference, she has an ACC record of 102-60 (.629). Miami ain't Duke in terms of reputation.

She's 52, meaning she would be more than a stopgap solution and would be someone who you would expect to be in the job for more than a decade.

Just a thought...

-Jason "bias admission -- Katie was a good friend of mine when we were in school together (we are both class of 1989) and we played basketball together a good bit... she was obviously waaaay better than me" Evans

jimsumner
07-02-2020, 04:25 PM
Is it insane to throw out the name Katie Meier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Meier)? She is one of the greatest Duke players of all time and has had some nice success at Miami including 2011 when she was AP's National Coach of the Year. Taking out her first 5 years, when she was building up what was one of the worst programs in the conference, she has an ACC record of 102-60 (.629). Miami ain't Duke in terms of reputation.

She's 52, meaning she would be more than a stopgap solution and would be someone who you would expect to be in the job for more than a decade.

Just a thought...

-Jason "bias admission -- Katie was a good friend of mine when we were in school together (we are both class of 1989) and we played basketball together a good bit... she was obviously waaaay better than me" Evans

I think 2007 was the time to pursue Katie. I could be wrong but I think that if Duke goes with someone in that age demographic it will be a home-run hire and as much as I like Katie personally, her program has been stuck in neutral for too long for her to be a home-run hire.

In the absence of a home-run hire, I think Duke will go younger and cheaper.

chrishoke
07-02-2020, 04:27 PM
Thank you Coach P for doing the right thing and giving the Duke Women's Basketball Program the opportunity for a fresh start which I am very excited about. I love Ms. Cheek, Beard and Harding but I hope we don't limit ourselves to folks with Duke ties. Coach G and and K had zero Duke ties and I think they turned out rather well. We also should look at promising young head coaches that have a track record, an exciting style of play and a desire to recruit and compete with the best. In my opinion, the Duke job will draw lots of interest. I wonder what Bobby Knight thinks - just kidding.

jv001
07-02-2020, 04:33 PM
Is it insane to throw out the name Katie Meier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katie_Meier)? She is one of the greatest Duke players of all time and has had some nice success at Miami including 2011 when she was AP's National Coach of the Year. Taking out her first 5 years, when she was building up what was one of the worst programs in the conference, she has an ACC record of 102-60 (.629). Miami ain't Duke in terms of reputation.

She's 52, meaning she would be more than a stopgap solution and would be someone who you would expect to be in the job for more than a decade.

Just a thought...

-Jason "bias admission -- Katie was a good friend of mine when we were in school together (we are both class of 1989) and we played basketball together a good bit... she was obviously waaaay better than me" Evans

I was thinking "what about the former Duke player that coaches at Miami"? Since I couldn't think of her last name, I didn't comment. I think Katie would be a good hire. Duke has some good options if most of them are interested in the job and I can't think of a reason not to be interested. I love Coach G but I'm not so sure she's the answer and not because she's 57 years young. I'm a little apprehensive because of her record at Texas.

GoDuke!

DU82
07-02-2020, 04:38 PM
I was thinking "what about the former Duke player that coaches at Miami"? Since I couldn't think of her last name, I didn't comment. I think Katie would be a good hire. Duke has some good options if most of them are interested in the job and I can't think of a reason not to be interested. I love Coach G but I'm not so sure she's the answer and not because she's 57 years young. I'm a little apprehensive because of her record at Texas.

GoDuke!

I don’t see Katie as a good hire at this point. She hasn’t had great success at Miami, and I think the program’s either in neutral or declining (sounds familiar.). Certainly a tougher place to Coach WBB, but she seems content there, and vice verse.

dudog84
07-02-2020, 04:39 PM
I think 2007 was the time to pursue Katie. I could be wrong but I think that if Duke goes with someone in that age demographic it will be a home-run hire and as much as I like Katie personally, her program has been stuck in neutral for too long for her to be a home-run hire.

In the absence of a home-run hire, I think Duke will go younger and cheaper.

Geno is getting up there, maybe he's looking for a warmer clime.

(I know it won't happen, just stirring the pot)

uh_no
07-02-2020, 04:43 PM
Geno is getting up there, maybe he's looking for a warmer clime.

(I know it won't happen, just stirring the pot)

he said one of the jobs he'd leave for was duke.....men.

chrishoke
07-02-2020, 04:43 PM
Geno is getting up there, maybe he's looking for a warmer clime.

(I know it won't happen, just stirring the pot)

Is Adolph Rupp still alive? :p

dudog84
07-02-2020, 04:45 PM
Like espn or not, here's an extensive article on prospects:

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29400509/how-duke-women-basketball-replace-coach-joanne-p-mccallie

devildeac
07-02-2020, 04:50 PM
Is Adolph Rupp still alive? :p

Well, I thought about mentioning him but more relieved that you did:eek:. Or, *if* Rupp not available, how about Auerbach? :rolleyes::o

camion
07-02-2020, 04:50 PM
You absolve White of a lot in your post, and I agree to some degree...but to correct a fact: the contract extention came after the investigation. There is no white-washing of that one. It was and is still a major head scratcher for me. Maybe they figured they'd be sued if they didn't extend her...but that doesn't explain the extremely lucrative raise, incommensurate with the results she was providing relative to her peers.

I'm not sure I'll ever understand that one.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article76473752.html
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story?id=20490395&_slug_=duke-blue-devils-coach-joanne-p-mccallie-gets-contract-extension-2020-21

Maybe the extension was cheaper in dollars and PR than a potential lawsuit.

triaddukefan
07-02-2020, 04:52 PM
I mentioned her in another thread, but if you went with someone with non-Duke ties... Jennie Baranczyk of Drake would make some sense. She's been successful at a mid-major.. her teams are known for their high octane offenses... and she is just 38 years old.

killerleft
07-02-2020, 04:56 PM
I think GG wants to be a HC again in college and not a special assistant.

She's sure taking her sweet time, then. Or is the world not beating down the door to hire her?

uh_no
07-02-2020, 05:04 PM
Maybe the extension was cheaper in dollars and PR than a potential lawsuit.

that was my best guess....but it doesn't totally explain the ridiculous raise.

uh_no
07-02-2020, 05:05 PM
She's sure taking her sweet time, then. Or is the world not beating down the door to hire her?

i'd guess with the salary she believes she can command, and the failure at texas, her asking price may be unpalatable.

For better or worse, given where the program is right now, I think the list of candidates will ultimately end up being somewhat limited by what the department is willing to pay.

DU82
07-02-2020, 05:07 PM
She's sure taking her sweet time, then. Or is the world not beating down the door to hire her?

I believe she only “announced” she was ready to come back this past season. And then everything shut down. As a result, this is only the fourth P6 (Power 5 plus Big East) job open. Villanova was a long-announced retirement, filled with a former player and mid-major coach. Texas didn’t renew their coaches contract, and poached an Austin native from the SEC (Miss. State) who then replaced him with a mid-major coach. Not a lot of opportunity for a returning coach that based on previous accomplishments would expect consideration for a Major job. While Miss. State has done well recently, it may not have been the type of job (and location) that Coach G would want.

9Not specifically defending her, just pointing out the logistics as I see them. Nobody was beating down Mack Brown’s door, either, to pick a frequently mentioned analogy.)

Steven43
07-02-2020, 05:08 PM
In all fairness to Kevin White, he has been in a tough position with Coach P since he came to Duke. I'm not excusing his decisions but I get it. With no insider knowledge, I would imagine that he thought the HR investigation might have forced her to resign (i.e., she would quit on her own knowing that writing was on the wall with regards to not being retained once her current contract ended); but to P's credit, she didn't quit and basically dared White to fire her. If he had fired her, Duke would've owed her a lot of money. I believe she had retained a lawyer and was threatening a law suit against Duke if she was fired. White blinked; and allowed her to continue as HC once the HR report came back with nothing to support a "show cause" reason to fire McCallie. In hindsight, he probably should've had an outside firm come in and do the investigation; but again, I'm not sure he wanted to go to that expense to try to find proof of reasons to fire her and void the remaining years of her contract.

As far as extending her contract years earlier, I thought that was a mistake; but again, I get it. She was coming off some fairly successful recruiting runs and was going to the elite 8. At that time, I'm not sure if Coach G, Alana or Lindsey would have been interested in the Duke job; and I'm not sure there was a good choice out there that was interested. With no "perceived" good alternatives out there then, White probably felt he had no other choice but to continue with McCallie. He probably thought it was the best choice financially for the program as well. I thought there were signs years ago that this relationship with Coach P was not going to work out; but as some pointed out to me in the past, there were statistical data that provided arguably strong support for keeping P.

Personally, I think he was fine with the level of success McCallie had; and I don't think he was as focused on DWB winning NCs as he was getting Duke football back to being a legitimate program and keeping the DMB at an elite level. Obviously, one could argue that if this was the case, that thought process was part of the problem of why the DWB is in the position that it is now.

I think the real person to blame is Joe Alleva. IMO, he never should've forced Coach G out. He hired McCallie and thought she would be the one to get DWB over the hump and win NCs.

As far as the possibility of Coach G, I would love to have her back here. Count me as one of the ones that point to the success of Mack Brown as proof she would be successful again. Imo, let her coach at Duke for as long as she wants to and has the program at an elite level (which I believe she would do) while mentoring any or all of Alana, Lindsey, and Joy to be a HC; and potentially takeover the program whenever G was ready to step down this time. I could see G coaching into her 70s at Duke if she really wanted to come back to Duke and be the HC. I'm not concerned about any perceptions.

I don't take joy in seeing Coach P resigned. While I was not a fan of her coaching philosophies toward defense and offense, I do think she genuinely loved being at Duke, representing the school, and being the HC of DWB. I wish her and her family well as they move forward on their new journey. With that said, I am extremely excited about the direction the DWB program can now go; and I hope Kevin White chooses wisely. If he can get this hire right, I believe he can erase any damage he cause by letting this McCallie saga continue for so long.
Well-stated. Can’t argue with much of what you wrote.

budwom
07-02-2020, 05:09 PM
Maybe she had a strong inkling of a job opening up at a place she likes?

dudog84
07-02-2020, 05:16 PM
Gonna be an interesting few years. Arguably the three biggest names in ACC Women's Basketball are going to have new(ish) coaches this year. uNC 2nd year, Notre Dame 1st year, Duke 1st year. Jeff Walz is working on getting Louisville here, but I said "names", not current state of the programs.

CameronBornAndBred
07-02-2020, 05:19 PM
Like espn or not, here's an extensive article on prospects:

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29400509/how-duke-women-basketball-replace-coach-joanne-p-mccallie

Very happy to see Joy Cheek on that list. (Now Joy Smith, didn't know she had gotten married.)

CameronBornAndBred
07-02-2020, 05:24 PM
She's sure taking her sweet time, then. Or is the world not beating down the door to hire her?

In the article that Dudog linked, GG is the first candidate named. Here is one of the quotes.


"I've never felt more confident about coaching than I do today," Goestenkors told ESPN on Thursday. "I'm reminded of a conversation I had last year with UNC football coach Mack Brown upon his return to coaching. He talked about missing the locker room and the energy of teaching and coaching young people. I can relate to that 100 percent."

loran16
07-02-2020, 05:50 PM
Another good item on the job and the prospects who might be interested or looked at: https://thenext.substack.com/p/dukes-joanne-p-mccallie-resigned

Phredd3
07-02-2020, 06:04 PM
Maybe the extension was cheaper in dollars and PR than a potential lawsuit.

A lawsuit about contract non-renewal was always bound to be a loser for Coach P. That was never a risk. White was fooled by the W-L record, plain and simple.

killerleft
07-02-2020, 06:16 PM
In the article that Dudog linked, GG is the first candidate named. Here is one of the quotes.

I've known forever not to knock Gail Goestenkors. And there is no doubt she knows how to win at Duke.

Uh_no's post above might show the biggest obstacle to G's return (assuming she would want to), which is the salary she might demand.

chrishoke
07-02-2020, 06:34 PM
I've known forever not to knock Gail Goestenkors. And there is no doubt she knows how to win at Duke.

Uh_no's post above might show the biggest obstacle to G's return (assuming she would want to), which is the salary she might demand.

I love GG. If she wants to get back in coaching , she needs tgo temper her salary demands.

CameronBornAndBred
07-02-2020, 06:42 PM
I've known forever not to knock Gail Goestenkors. And there is no doubt she knows how to win at Duke.

Uh_no's post above might show the biggest obstacle to G's return (assuming she would want to), which is the salary she might demand.


I love GG. If she wants to get back in coaching , she needs tgo temper her salary demands.

Have we seen that is she demanding high dollars? Yeah, she did an amazing job at Duke, but bombed at Texas. Are we sure she is going to be asking lots? (BTW, IF her ask is what P was getting paid, I'd take that risk.)

chrishoke
07-02-2020, 06:48 PM
Have we seen that is she demanding high dollars? Yeah, she did an amazing job at Duke, but bombed at Texas. Are we sure she is going to be asking lots? (BTW, IF her ask is what P was getting paid, I'd take that risk.)

IMHO, that would be way above her market value. BTW, I have no idea what her askimg price might be.

duke2x
07-02-2020, 06:51 PM
Have we seen that is she demanding high dollars? Yeah, she did an amazing job at Duke, but bombed at Texas. Are we sure she is going to be asking lots? (BTW, IF her ask is what P was getting paid, I'd take that risk.)

There's a good chance the TV money party is over. I don't see ACC members getting $30M (2019) again. The mouse has closed all parks, and it's showing competitive tiddlywinks on TV. Decreased salaries will apply to every P5 job, however.

BD80
07-02-2020, 08:38 PM
I mentioned her in another thread, but if you went with someone with non-Duke ties... Jennie Baranczyk of Drake would make some sense. She's been successful at a mid-major.. her teams are known for their high octane offenses... and she is just 38 years old.


Baranczyk? A college basketball coach could never succeed with an unpronounceable/unspellable name like Baranczyk!

sagegrouse
07-02-2020, 08:49 PM
I mentioned her in another thread, but if you went with someone with non-Duke ties... Jennie Baranczyk of Drake would make some sense. She's been successful at a mid-major.. her teams are known for their high octane offenses... and she is just 38 years old.

Drake? Might work at Duke.

Kindly,
Sage
'When I started at Duke in the mid-20th century, Duke was much less well-known nationally. My freshman dorm had a guy from the Midwest whose neighbors all thought he was going to "Drake." Another couple of guys from Pittsburgh had to convince people that "Duke" was different from "Duquesne"'

'And of course the propaganda inside the state of North Carolina was that Duke was where all the Yankees went to school. At that time Duke was 45 percent from North Carolina, with a healthy helping of kids from South Carolina and Virginia'

dudog84
07-02-2020, 09:03 PM
Drake? Might work at Duke.

Kindly,
Sage
'When I started at Duke in the mid-20th century, Duke was much less well-known nationally. My freshman dorm had a guy from the Midwest whose neighbors all thought he was going to "Drake." Another couple of guys from Pittsburgh had to convince people that "Duke" was different from "Duquesne"'

'And of course the propaganda inside the state of North Carolina was that Duke was where all the Yankees went to school. At that time Duke was 45 percent from North Carolina, with a healthy helping of kids from South Carolina and Virginia'

I'm from western PA, but about 90 miles from Pittsburgh. When I made my decision in '80, my aunt (who was one of the few college graduates in the family) expressed great excitement that I was going to Duquesne. My father still is not convinced of the value of a college education.

camion
07-02-2020, 10:35 PM
Baranczyk? A college basketball coach could never succeed with an unpronounceable/unspellable name like Baranczyk!

Baranczyk? Isn’t that Krzyzewski spelled sideways?

cato
07-03-2020, 12:10 AM
Like espn or not, here's an extensive article on prospects:

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29400509/how-duke-women-basketball-replace-coach-joanne-p-mccallie

That is an impressive list of coaches! And well constructed. It got me fired up about the possibility of the return of Coach G, and then had me convinced one of the up-and-comers could be even better.

awhom111
07-03-2020, 01:49 AM
I am going to avoid talking about candidates with existing Duke ties since the situation is more complicated, but here are some thoughts on others. To me, important factors are offensive philosophy and willingness to adapt to modern trends, knowledge of the process of recruiting to high level programs, and understanding of what is possible to accomplish off the court at Duke, especially with fans. As is the case with any hire after a departure, it seems likely that there will be some kind of stylistic shift.

Nicki Collen, Atlanta Dream: She has good college experience and her first pro season was spectacular. Season two was not good at all, but overall her philosophy and style seem to be pretty solid. WNBA coaches are all affordable, but her reasons for moving from college to the pros are understandable and this would be a chance to run her own program in college. The Dream also have some off the court things going on right now, so this might be the right time for her to jump, but given that their season is supposed to start soon, I could see a perception issue of team abandonment. If this had happened three months ago, the timing might have been better.

Tina Langley, Rice: Impressive turnaround at a school that is not easy to win at consistently. She has the experience of being an assistant at a high level without the personality of her mentor and has already demonstrated some creative recruiting for her situation.

Raegan Peably, TCU: Runs a very modern offense and already has a ton of head coaching experience at a young age. TCU is not exactly the best funded program so it would be one of the easier power conference schools to raid from these days. It would be nice to know how she would adjust to recruit at a program used to getting top recruits regularly.

Jennie Baranczyk, Drake: Done quite well at her only head coaching job. Her assistant experience gives her some past ideas on recruiting at a power conference level, but is a long way removed from that. Seems to have been a big name for two hiring cycles, but I wonder if there are jobs out there that she might be waiting for to come open.

Lisa Fortier, Gonzaga: Carried on what was going on at Gonzaga after being promoted to head coach. The lack of power conference assistant experience is worrying, but she is recruiting well at the mid-major level. Like her predecessor, she is likely to be the big candidate whenever Pac 12 jobs open up in the near future and it is possible that her next destination might be in that conference.

Too soon?
Megan Duffy, Marquette: She engineered a quick turnaround in her first job and then moved up to the upper echelon of mid-majors after two years, having a solid first season. She has a strong playing pedigree and varied assistant coaching experience, but it will probably be a few years before she makes the power conference jump although she seems to be quite highly-regarded.

Call them!
There are a few longtime assistants like Shea Ralph at UConn and Kate Paye at Stanford who seem like they have good situations, but it never hurts to try to figure out if they would take the right head coaching job.

Adia Barnes, Arizona: I think the timing for this is just not right. She took a tough job at her alma mater, which really was not supporting the program very well and then turned it around and brought the fans in last season before having a great season cut short. It is definitely possible that funding is still not up to snuff there for the long term, but it seems like it is not the time for her to move on right now.

If men are an option, that leads to some interesting possibilities. The people who make these decisions are obviously not going to say out loud that men are not an option, but there is often a preference or restriction in place.

Karl Smesko at Florida Gulf Coast would be an interesting candidate, but it would be hard to pry him away from a program that he built from scratch. Of course, he essentially has no power conference level experience with things like recruiting, but there were rumors that he was in the mix at USC and that there are certain jobs that he would leave for if given the chance.

Jose Fernandez at South Florida also tends to be a popular suggestion for openings as he has done an excellent job building that program. The worry would be his reliance on international recruits as that might not be possible to replicate everywhere, but he has great connections in that sphere.

Quentin Hillsman at Syracuse should also be sounded out for major openings. He has won there with a style that is rather extreme and should be exciting for fans, but they have never really packed it in with their setup at the Carrier Dome looking quite cavernous. It's hard to know how coaches at programs with that issue feel about their support, but I could see other schools being interested. If the style is intriguing, another option might be trying to figure out if his analytics guru Vonn Read might be ready to make a jump, although this does not seem like the right opportunity for that.

Two good coaches who we should probably not expect to be options are Katie Abrahamson-Henderson at Central Florida and Felisha Leggette-Jack at Buffalo. Both seem likely to land power conference jobs in the next few years, but both are considered part of Coach P's coaching tree so the fit is not right.

dudog84
07-03-2020, 08:40 AM
Two good coaches who we should probably not expect to be options are Katie Abrahamson-Henderson at Central Florida and Felisha Leggette-Jack at Buffalo. Both seem likely to land power conference jobs in the next few years, but both are considered part of Coach P's coaching tree so the fit is not right.

Thanks for the analysis. I woke up this morning thinking to look up the Smesko guy, but agree Duke will be hiring a woman.

Your last paragraph made me think: Does Coach G have a coaching tree? Have not really heard of one (the current coach at Virginia?), and here we're 6 pages in and none have been mentioned. Seems we've also found what it takes to get DWBB some interest on DBR. Over 100 posts in less than 24 hours!

budwom
07-03-2020, 10:13 AM
Thanks for the analysis. I woke up this morning thinking to look up the Smesko guy, but agree Duke will be hiring a woman.

Your last paragraph made me think: Does Coach G have a coaching tree? Have not really heard of one (the current coach at Virginia?), and here we're 6 pages in and none have been mentioned. Seems we've also found what it takes to get DWBB some interest on DBR. Over 100 posts in less than 24 hours!

or you could hire G and have part of her tree at the same time...stay tuned!

dudog84
07-03-2020, 10:33 AM
or you could hire G and have part of her tree at the same time...stay tuned!

I really don't see it. She left partly (or all) because of money 13 years ago, and I believe got a million from Texas. Coach P was making $1.3 million. Why would she accept less, probably considerably less, than Coach P? These coaches have egos.

The current financial situation precludes it if Duke has any sense (so stay tuned, yes). I'm not going to research the details, but obviously high-end salaries were cut and I believe other salaries frozen as well as retirement contributions. Paying a new coach (no matter how previously popular) in a non-revenue sport (which will remain a non-revenue sport) over a million will not go over well in the Duke community (by which I mean employees).

I cannot come close to predicting who will be chosen, but feel fairly confident it will not be Coach G. Banghart was hired up the road for $650,000, I fully expect something similar.

uh_no
07-03-2020, 10:38 AM
I really don't see it. She left partly (or all) because of money 13 years ago, and I believe got a million from Texas. Coach P was making $1.3 million. Why would she accept less, probably considerably less, than Coach P? These coaches have egos.

The current financial situation precludes it if Duke has any sense (so stay tuned, yes). I'm not going to research the details, but obviously high-end salaries were cut and I believe other salaries frozen as well as retirement contributions. Paying a new coach (no matter how previously popular) in a non-revenue sport (which will remain a non-revenue sport) over a million will not go over well in the Duke community (by which I mean employees).

I cannot come close to predicting who will be chosen, but feel fairly confident it will not be Coach G. Banghart was hired up the road for $650,000, I fully expect something similar.

not to mention the WBB program is bringing in significantly less revenue than it was when P first arrived.

jimsumner
07-03-2020, 11:45 AM
Your last paragraph made me think: Does Coach G have a coaching tree? Have not really heard of one (the current coach at Virginia?), and here we're 6 pages in and none have been mentioned. Seems we've also found what it takes to get DWBB some interest on DBR. Over 100 posts in less than 24 hours!

If you're talking about Joanne Boyle, she stepped away from coaching several years back for personal reasons, specifically a complicated overseas adoption. Tina Thompson is the current coach at UVA.

dudog84
07-03-2020, 12:16 PM
If you're talking about Joanne Boyle, she stepped away from coaching several years back for personal reasons, specifically a complicated overseas adoption. Tina Thompson is the current coach at UVA.

That's her, thanks. Any others, Jim? You're the expert on these things.

Edit: Just checked wikipedia, which has nothing.

jimsumner
07-03-2020, 12:49 PM
That's her, thanks. Any others, Jim? You're the expert on these things.

Edit: Just checked wikipedia, which has nothing.

Michelle Van Gorp was on McCallie's staff for awhile in a non-coaching position. I suspect she could coach the heck out of post players. But she's not a head-coach option.

Lots of G's players had WNBA success, Beard, Harding, Mo Currie, Mistie Bass. Which precluded them from coaching.

Joy Cheek Smith and Wanisha Smith--currently on staff-began their careers under G and finished under P.

This shouldn't take long. Any competent administrator--and I trust we can agree that Kevin White is competent at the least--is going to have a short list of replacements for vacancies in high-profile positions and this vacancy train has been coming down the tracks for some time.

dudog84
07-03-2020, 01:05 PM
This shouldn't take long. Any competent administrator--and I trust we can agree that Kevin White is competent at the least--is going to have a short list of replacements for vacancies in high-profile positions and this vacancy train has been coming down the tracks for some time.

If you can say (otherwise ignore me :)), how much is Nina King going to have to say about the hire? White is going to be 70 in 2 months. The other Senior Deputy AD is also around 70.

King seems like a natural to step in to the top post, and at her age should provide stability for a long time (as much as there is in college athletics). From goduke (just a bit of her bio):


In February of 2018, King was named to SportsBusiness Journal’s Forty Under 40 Class of 2018. The annual list honors 40 executives for excellence and innovation in their respective careers, all before the age of 40. Later that year, she was tabbed to the Leaders Under 40 Class of 2018, honoring sports business executives from around the world.

King is currently Vice Chair of the NCAA Division I Women’s Basketball Committee and will serve as Chair for the 2020-2021 season. The 10-person group is charged with, among many duties, the selection, seeding, and bracketing for the annual NCAA Women’s Basketball Championship. King also serves on several ACC Committees and Duke University Committees and was previously a member of the NCAA Committee on Institutional Performance.

triaddukefan
07-03-2020, 01:11 PM
Michelle Van Gorp was on McCallie's staff for awhile in a non-coaching position. I suspect she could coach the heck out of post players. But she's not a head-coach option.

Lots of G's players had WNBA success, Beard, Harding, Mo Currie, Mistie Bass. Which precluded them from coaching.

Joy Cheek Smith and Wanisha Smith--currently on staff-began their careers under G and finished under P.

This shouldn't take long. Any competent administrator--and I trust we can agree that Kevin White is competent at the least--is going to have a short list of replacements for vacancies in high-profile positions and this vacancy train has been coming down the tracks for some time.



Would Duke be against raiding a fellow ACC school of its head coach? Say Joanna Bernabei-McNamee??

uh_no
07-03-2020, 01:16 PM
Michelle Van Gorp was on McCallie's staff for awhile in a non-coaching position. I suspect she could coach the heck out of post players. But she's not a head-coach option.

Lots of G's players had WNBA success, Beard, Harding, Mo Currie, Mistie Bass. Which precluded them from coaching.

Joy Cheek Smith and Wanisha Smith--currently on staff-began their careers under G and finished under P.

This shouldn't take long. Any competent administrator--an I trust we can agree that Kevin White is competent at the least--is going to have a short list of replacements for vacancies in high-profile positions and this vacancy train has been coming down the tracks for some time.

From a business perspective, I imagine White has been looking forward to the day when he could wipe that extension from the books, but you're spot on that having a succession plan, even if it only involves a short list of candidates, maybe even ones you've intentionally remained cordial with, is an essential part of running a high profile organization...especially when you may be looking to, erm, move forward, at the earliest opportunity. Especially when the individual has had health scares.

Further, I imagine that P didn't YOLO call white and walk out. I'd like to imagine that regardless of animosity there might be from not continuing the relationship, it was at least done in a professional enough manner that both parties knew it was coming some time before it became official, allowing White to start seriously soliciting interest.

Were I a betting man, I'd say they have a hire within the week or so, and witth players reporting in about a month, it would have to be soon.

CameronBornAndBred
07-03-2020, 02:00 PM
This shouldn't take long. Any competent administrator--and I trust we can agree that Kevin White is competent at the least--is going to have a short list of replacements for vacancies in high-profile positions and this vacancy train has been coming down the tracks for some time.

When I read that the search will "begin immediately", I pretty much took that as saying "it has been well under way". Might not mean that anyone had been contacted, but I would assume that folks behind the scenes have been doing lots of homework to identify the candidates that they want to talk to the most.

uh_no
07-03-2020, 02:29 PM
When I read that the search will "begin immediately", I pretty much took that as saying "it has been well under way". Might not mean that anyone had been contacted, but I would assume that folks behind the scenes have been doing lots of homework to identify the candidates that they want to talk to the most.

Ironically, I imagine covid might expedite the process, as I can't imagine there's an expectation for an in-person meeting that might otherwise happen when hiring a coach.

sagegrouse
07-03-2020, 02:38 PM
When I read that the search will "begin immediately", I pretty much took that as saying "it has been well under way". Might not mean that anyone had been contacted, but I would assume that folks behind the scenes have been doing lots of homework to identify the candidates that they want to talk to the most.

As I may have said above, I operate under the assumption that an AD at a Division I school is constantly on the phone with headhunters and agents, keeping track of coaches and economic factors like salaries. And that these same search firms and agents are constantly talking to "hot properties" in the coaching world, including women's hoops.

If the above is even partially true, a search can start immediately at high speed.

Music man55
07-03-2020, 03:00 PM
To hide my drinking problem from the In-Laws I transferred my bourbon to old hand sanitizer bottles. As they are ardent Trump supporters, drinking in front of them only elevates me in their esteem.

I can't stop laughing at this one. Great!😂

dudog84
07-03-2020, 03:14 PM
Though I believe G is out of the price range, my dream scenario is her coming back (with no 5-year limitation/understanding as others have suggested since that's a bad look) with Alana as her top assistant and heir apparent. Then they go out and get Azzi Fudd and one or two of the other top players left in the 2021 class and announce "Duke is BACK". I think that would be an enticing challenge for a top player.

Maybe it can be done with an incentive-laden contract. Or do a Bobby Bonilla contract.

budwom
07-03-2020, 03:18 PM
^ I bet G would coach at Duke for less than what McCallie was making...

miramar
07-03-2020, 03:22 PM
It appears that everybody involved in women's basketball is a potential Duke hire, with the exception of Sylvia of course.

I really don't recognize most of them, but it seems that there are a lot of talented coaches out there, which is good for Duke and good for women's basketball in general.

All I can say is that the new head coach and all of the assistants better be ready to recruit because we need to replenish he cupboard. I hope that whoever comes in can retain some of the current assistants, especially the ones with a Duke background (Wanisha Smith, Keturah Jackson, and Bobby Sorrel).

jimsumner
07-03-2020, 04:20 PM
It appears that everybody involved in women's basketball is a potential Duke hire, with the exception of Sylvia of course.

I really don't recognize most of them, but it seems that there are a lot of talented coaches out there, which is good for Duke and good for women's basketball in general.

All I can say is that the new head coach and all of the assistants better be ready to recruit because we need to replenish he cupboard. I hope that whoever comes in can retain some of the current assistants, especially the ones with a Duke background (Wanisha Smith, Keturah Jackson, and Bobby Sorrel).

Jim Corrigan also is a Duke alum

Phredd3
07-03-2020, 05:33 PM
Jim Corrigan also is a Duke alum

He toed the JPM line pretty closely, as an assistant should do, but he seemed to have a good head on his shoulders and appeared to be a genuinely good guy. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot under a new HC.

heyman25
07-03-2020, 05:44 PM
Best news of the summer. Joanne McCallie ,I give her complements for resigning.
Duke can now start the rebuilding process a year earlier.2021 though no guarantees, I think the world will get an effective vaccine. White should make some phone calls to McGraw and find a promising new coach.Don't care who it is, just get a good people person that can strategize and recruit good talent. I think Harding and Beard are likely happy where they are. Geno Auriemma I have heard is an incredibly funny guy. He may be willing to provide some names as well. One of my friends from undergraduate days and played lacrosse for Duke is married to a UCONN alum and has season tickets to their games. He told me Auriemma is kind of like a Don Rickles or Rodney Dangerfield.

uh_no
07-03-2020, 06:09 PM
Best news of the summer. Joanne McCallie ,I give her complements for resigning.
Duke can now start the rebuilding process a year earlier.2021 though no guarantees, I think the world will get an effective vaccine. White should make some phone calls to McGraw and find a promising new coach.Don't care who it is, just get a good people person that can strategize and recruit good talent. I think Harding and Beard are likely happy where they are. Geno Auriemma I have heard is an incredibly funny guy. He may be willing to provide some names as well. One of my friends from undergraduate days and played lacrosse for Duke is married to a UCONN alum and has season tickets to their games. He told me Auriemma is kind of like a Don Rickles or Rodney Dangerfield.

For my own selfish reasons, I hope that the new coach is willing to put connecticut back on the schedule so I can at least see them every other year. It was awesome when they had both UNC and Duke every other year.

I always viewed P cancelling that series as resigning the program to second class....and hope the new coach tries to get more of those games. The more big name programs come to town, maybe we get some lumps early, but hopefully it gives us something to aspire too.

miramar
07-03-2020, 07:37 PM
Jim Corrigan also is a Duke alum

He is also a Duke dad so there is no way I should have missed him.

heyman25
07-03-2020, 09:13 PM
For my own selfish reasons, I hope that the new coach is willing to put connecticut back on the schedule so I can at least see them every other year. It was awesome when they had both UNC and Duke every other year.

I always viewed P cancelling that series as resigning the program to second class...and hope the new coach tries to get more of those games. The more big name programs come to town, maybe we get some lumps early, but hopefully it gives us something to aspire too.

Shea Ralph I doubt will want to leave a comfortable position at one of the few profitable and greatest collegiate basketball programs ever. She played high school in Fayetteville, Joey Baker's hometown.
Back to Auriemma my Duke alum friend said at social gathering with Auriemma. Geno is outrageously funny with story telling.

uh_no
07-03-2020, 09:31 PM
Shea Ralph I doubt will want to leave a comfortable position at one of the few profitable and greatest collegiate basketball programs ever. She played high school in Fayetteville, Joey Baker's hometown.
Back to Auriemma my Duke alum friend said at social gathering with Auriemma. Geno is outrageously funny with story telling.

Geno might well coach into his 70's. Dude's drive is nuts....and is eaten by the fact that it's been 4 years since they've won a title. So could be another 5+ years for Shea. Now, whether she is well compensated enough to ride that out, who knows. Internet says 200+k$, so Duke could certainly double or triple that easy.

Geno is hilarious...but it also gets him in trouble. Pat Summitt's book talks about how he would say off color things that would tick people off, but when push came to shove, he'd have your back 100%. (Her turning point was that when she announced her foundation, he immediately wrote her a 10k$ check).

Steven43
07-04-2020, 01:13 AM
Geno might well coach into his 70's. Dude's drive is nuts...and is eaten by the fact that it's been 4 years since they've won a title. So could be another 5+ years for Shea. Now, whether she is well compensated enough to ride that out, who knows. Internet says 200+k$, so Duke could certainly double or triple that easy.

Geno is hilarious...but it also gets him in trouble. Pat Summitt's book talks about how he would say off color things that would tick people off, but when push came to shove, he'd have your back 100%. (Her turning point was that when she announced her foundation, he immediately wrote her a 10k$ check).
Has Geno Auriemma eclipsed Pat Summitt as the greatest women’s basketball coach of all time or is it still debatable?

triaddukefan
07-04-2020, 03:03 AM
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29407570/duke-tells-former-coach-gail-goestenkors-not-candidate-replace-mccallie

From the article.

Former Duke coach Gail Goestenkors has been told she is not a candidate for the Blue Devils' women's basketball head-coaching position, despite former players saying she has a strong base of support from the program's alumnae. The job opened Thursday when Joanne P. McCallie stepped down after 13 seasons because of uncertainty over an extension as she entered the final year of her contract.

A source told ESPN that on Friday, Duke's search committee informed Goestenkors, who ran the program from 1992 to 2007, that the school wanted to go a different direction and not look to the past.

arnie
07-04-2020, 06:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29407570/duke-tells-former-coach-gail-goestenkors-not-candidate-replace-mccallie

From the article.

Former Duke coach Gail Goestenkors has been told she is not a candidate for the Blue Devils' women's basketball head-coaching position, despite former players saying she has a strong base of support from the program's alumnae. The job opened Thursday when Joanne P. McCallie stepped down after 13 seasons because of uncertainty over an extension as she entered the final year of her contract.

A source told ESPN that on Friday, Duke's search committee informed Goestenkors, who ran the program from 1992 to 2007, that the school wanted to go a different direction and not look to the past.
Does this mean they’ve hired Alleva as a consultant to the search committee?😡

miramar
07-04-2020, 08:28 AM
I’m sorry she won’t be considered, but there are plenty of reasons to look elsewhere. She has been away from Duke a long time, didn’t leave under the best circumstances, had a disappointing run at Texas, women’s basketball has changed, and she has not been a HC for a while. Plus while her name is important to us, it may not mean much to teenage recruits.

The decision to consider other options could also be a recognition that Duke WBB will have to be rebuilt from the ground up, which could take a while, so they might as well pick a long-term option from the get go. Not to mention that White may have identified some strong candidates already, so one way or another the process should be interesting.

No matter what, she is the best women’s basketball coach we have ever had and left behind some great memories. Thanks, coach!

One more thing: Since the roster has to be revamped, I hope the new coach does not pull scholarship offers as McCallie once did. And that s/he refers to opposing players by their names rather than their numbers. I could go on, but Duke has to be Duke no matter what.

uh_no
07-04-2020, 09:22 AM
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29407570/duke-tells-former-coach-gail-goestenkors-not-candidate-replace-mccallie

From the article.

Former Duke coach Gail Goestenkors has been told she is not a candidate for the Blue Devils' women's basketball head-coaching position, despite former players saying she has a strong base of support from the program's alumnae. The job opened Thursday when Joanne P. McCallie stepped down after 13 seasons because of uncertainty over an extension as she entered the final year of her contract.

A source told ESPN that on Friday, Duke's search committee informed Goestenkors, who ran the program from 1992 to 2007, that the school wanted to go a different direction and not look to the past.

We already offended her once with an offer, perhaps White has more respect for her than to offer her half of what the previous coach was making. As others have said, banghart is making 650k down the road, and I'd be shocked if the department were wanting to shell out much more than that, given the overall financial situation and the current state of the program revenue. That likely rules out G and means up-and-coming.

I would have loved to see her coach, but we never overlapped at Duke. But that doesn't necessarily mean I think she's right at this juncture, and it seems the department agrees.

Indoor66
07-04-2020, 09:43 AM
It seems to me that $50k per month is plenty enough to pay any coach who has not won a game at Duke and in a sport that is a net money loser.

camion
07-04-2020, 10:07 AM
It seems to me that $50k per month is plenty enough to pay any coach who has not won a game at Duke and in a sport that is a net money loser.

Okay you got me. I'll do it for $50k/mo if you throw in a pallet of Duke Covid masks.

10990

revmel53
07-04-2020, 11:20 AM
believe it's time to start over with a young, energetic coach with charisma. While this season's Duke team exceeded my expectations, back in the old days (ten-twelve years ago, Ha) we were always in the hunt ACC-wise, and fairly regularly nationally. I look forward to that again...

CameronBornAndBred
07-04-2020, 11:42 AM
That's a bummer to learn that G was definitely interested.

wsb3
07-04-2020, 12:12 PM
I’m sorry she won’t be considered, but there are plenty of reasons to look elsewhere. She has been away from Duke a long time, didn’t leave under the best circumstances, had a disappointing run at Texas, women’s basketball has changed, and she has not been a HC for a while. Plus while her name is important to us, it may not mean much to teenage recruits.

The decision to consider other options could also be a recognition that Duke WBB will have to be rebuilt from the ground up, which could take a while, so they might as well pick a long-term option from the get go. Not to mention that White may have identified some strong candidates already, so one way or another the process should be interesting.

No matter what, she is the best women’s basketball coach we have ever had and left behind some great memories. Thanks, coach!

One more thing: Since the roster has to be revamped, I hope the new coach does not pull scholarship offers as McCallie once did. And that s/he refers to opposing players by their names rather than their numbers. I could go on, but Duke has to be Duke no matter what.

I think this is an excellent post. Must spread blah blah

gadzooks
07-04-2020, 01:25 PM
That's a bummer to learn that G was definitely interested.
Agreed; this makes me kind of sad. I understand the arguments against hiring her, but still, like so many other DWBB fans, I *loved* her and would have been so happy to see her back on the sidelines in Cameron. I hope she finds the right spot.

Hartford Dukie
07-04-2020, 01:48 PM
The ESPN article describes how Dr. Georgia Schweitzer Beasley had drafted a letter with strong support from from many former Duke players.

"Several former Duke players had already added their signatures to a letter of support for Goestenkors' return. Dr. Georgia Schweitzer Beasley, a two-time ACC player of the year and starter on Duke's 1999 national runner-up team coached by Goestenkors, drafted the letter. She said former players from four decades had signed it, as had several other Duke alumni and season-ticket holders."

burnspbesq
07-04-2020, 01:58 PM
The pay cut was not a factor. This decision didn't come out of nowhere. It wasn't spur-of-the-moment.

Her husband has retired from teaching, their daughter has graduated and is out in the world and their son is at Northwestern, rising sophomore I believe.

So, they are empty nesters and presumably have the financial resources to do whatever they want, wherever they want.

I do not expect to see her coaching again. But I can see her behind a microphone someday. If Seth Greenberg can make the move then McCallie can.

Big question. Does Duke still have a hiring freeze and if so, are they willing to suspend it for this hire? If not, then one of the assistants becomes an interim.

Look for Gail Goestenkors' name to be floated around. A lot. But Duke needs to find out if she's serious about jumping back into the game at age 57. It's one thing to muse about it publicly. It's another thing to commit to the work and it's a lot of work.

Duke alums Alana Beard, Lindsey Harding and Joy Cheek are all out there. But head coach?

Or does Duke go the younger, cheaper route? Lots of talented, hungry 30-somethings would jump at the chance. I mean turn cartwheels, Simone-Biles level jumping.

I absolutely think Duke's reputation or profile or "brand" is still very, very high and the right hire can and will put Duke back in the nationally elite category in a few years. Not next year, maybe not 2022. But definitely by 2023.

I wish McCallie well. She's always been open and candid with me and I have no doubt she did her level best to win games the right way. She's been involved in things like cancer research and mental-health issues and by involved, I mean really involved. She deserves respect for that.

But 13 years is a long time to be a head coach at a high-profile program. It was always an awkward match and eventually it just became unsustainable.

Next play.

Let me add one name to the conversation: Cavs assistant (and former Cal head coach) Lindsay Gottlieb.

burnspbesq
07-04-2020, 02:06 PM
Look what she had to work with.

(And, just in case anybody didn’t get it, my previous post should have started with “/sarcasmmodeon”)

I imagine she had second thoughts about the move every day she walked into the locker room and didn’t see Bella Alarie.

burnspbesq
07-04-2020, 02:17 PM
To the folks clamoring for G Part Deux, I pose the following question:

If Coach Danowski were to suddenly resign, would you be in favor of bringing back Mike Pressler?

fuse
07-04-2020, 02:58 PM
To the folks clamoring for G Part Deux, I pose the following question:

If Coach Danowski were to suddenly resign, would you be in favor of bringing back Mike Pressler?

I’ll lead with acknowledgment of two completely different circumstances under which each left Duke.

I spent some time with Pressler in his first year at Duke, found him to be an honourable man, and was disgusted at how the university treated him during the alleged events.

The lens that ought to be used in reflecting on that question is what in the world could ever convince Pressler to come back?

G left for perceived greener pastures. Pressler was unjustly forced out of his job and publicly shamed, disgraced, and took years to rebuild his reputation.

Would I welcome Pressler back as a lacrosse coach if Danowski left? An unequivocal yes.
Would I ever expect him to entertain such an offer? Never in a million years.

This isn’t even close to an apples to apples comparison- its more like apples to durian fruit.
🤔

jimsumner
07-04-2020, 03:01 PM
Let me add one name to the conversation: Cavs assistant (and former Cal head coach) Lindsay Gottlieb.

I would very much hope Duke is kicking the proverbial Gottlieb tires. She would bring a lot to the table.

dudog84
07-04-2020, 03:06 PM
This isn’t even close to an apples to apples comparison- its more like apples to durian fruit.
🤔

Thanks, I always like to learn something new every day. Had never heard of it.

devildeac
07-04-2020, 03:26 PM
Thanks, I always like to learn something new every day. Had never heard of it.

Durian fruit? Gotta research that one, too. It's certainly not in any beers fuse has reviewed/shared/traded :rolleyes::o.

10991

From Wiki:


" The smell evokes reactions from deep appreciation to intense disgust, and has been described variously as rotten onions, turpentine, and raw sewage. The persistence of its odour, which may linger for several days, has led to the fruit's banishment from certain hotels and public transportation in Southeast Asia. By contrast, the nineteenth-century British naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace described its flesh as "a rich custard highly flavoured with almonds". The flesh can be consumed at various stages of ripeness, and it is used to flavour a wide variety of savoury and sweet desserts in Southeast Asian cuisines. The seeds can also be eaten when cooked."

HooDevil
07-04-2020, 03:37 PM
Talk about a magnetic personality...I still remember the night some 15-20 years ago, as a MBB season ticket holder I was entering Cameron for a night game though the jam-packed main entrance lobby, when I spotted Coach G in the crowd maybe 30 feet and 30 fans just ahead and off to my left, headed for the floor level entrance. I yelled either “Hello Gail” or “Hey Coach G”, I don’t remember which. She heard my greeting over the din of the surging crowd, turned her head over her right shoulder, made eye contact and flashed a radiant smile that lit me up—a small thing but emblematic of her way with people. I was a big fan and hated to see her leave for Texas.

dudog84
07-04-2020, 03:42 PM
Durian fruit? Gotta research that one, too. It's certainly not in any beers fuse has reviewed/shared/traded :rolleyes::o.

10991

From Wiki:


" The smell evokes reactions from deep appreciation to intense disgust, and has been described variously as rotten onions, turpentine, and raw sewage. The persistence of its odour, which may linger for several days, has led to the fruit's banishment from certain hotels and public transportation in Southeast Asia. By contrast, the nineteenth-century British naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace described its flesh as "a rich custard highly flavoured with almonds". The flesh can be consumed at various stages of ripeness, and it is used to flavour a wide variety of savoury and sweet desserts in Southeast Asian cuisines. The seeds can also be eaten when cooked."

This site is even better, 20 attempts to describe the fruit going back centuries. Most of the reviews are decidedly not good, and quite colorful.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/565968/attempts-describe-taste-durian-worlds-smelliest-fruit

jimsumner
07-04-2020, 03:51 PM
This site is even better, 20 attempts to describe the fruit going back centuries. Most of the reviews are decidedly not good, and quite colorful.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/565968/attempts-describe-taste-durian-worlds-smelliest-fruit

If we ever have a thread on Greatest DBR sidebars, I suspect Durian will be on the short list.

fuse
07-04-2020, 03:51 PM
This site is even better, 20 attempts to describe the fruit going back centuries. Most of the reviews are decidedly not good, and quite colorful.

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/565968/attempts-describe-taste-durian-worlds-smelliest-fruit

Always fun to try to come up with something different and see how it plays out. Thanks! 😁

fuse
07-04-2020, 03:53 PM
If we ever have a thread on Greatest DBR sidebars, I suspect Durian will be on the short list.

Bucket list item unlocked, to have posted something worth a jimsumner comment.

I may just have to frame this. 😄

Kedsy
07-04-2020, 04:17 PM
Durian fruit? Gotta research that one, too. It's certainly not in any beers fuse has reviewed/shared/traded :rolleyes::o.

10991

From Wiki:


" The smell evokes reactions from deep appreciation to intense disgust, and has been described variously as rotten onions, turpentine, and raw sewage. The persistence of its odour, which may linger for several days, has led to the fruit's banishment from certain hotels and public transportation in Southeast Asia. By contrast, the nineteenth-century British naturalist Alfred Russel Wallace described its flesh as "a rich custard highly flavoured with almonds". The flesh can be consumed at various stages of ripeness, and it is used to flavour a wide variety of savoury and sweet desserts in Southeast Asian cuisines. The seeds can also be eaten when cooked."

I have sampled this fruit. You have to want it, the smell makes it really difficult to eat.

throatybeard
07-04-2020, 06:08 PM
I have a great affection for Shea Ralph, but a Geno assistant doesn't make a lot of sense to me when Geno is 66. If you hire a UConn asst and she's flops, you ruined her for the UConn job; if she's successful at a Nameity-Name-but-now-second-tier WBB school, then she leaves for Storrs when Geno retires. Seems like five or seven or ten years ago was the time to be yoinking his assistants.

awhom111
07-04-2020, 06:46 PM
I would very much hope Duke is kicking the proverbial Gottlieb tires. She would bring a lot to the table.

There are a few reasons why I left her off my list, even before questioning whether she would want to return to college and women's basketball so soon.. What I have heard locally about her time at Cal leads me to question whether she would be a good cultural fit at Duke, although the later portion of her tenure was a bit different than the earlier portion. She is a good coach and I think would work great at a number of schools.

CrazyNotCrazie
07-04-2020, 07:19 PM
I have a great affection for Shea Ralph, but a Geno assistant doesn't make a lot of sense to me when Geno is 66. If you hire a UConn asst and she's flops, you ruined her for the UConn job; if she's successful at a Nameity-Name-but-now-second-tier WBB school, then she leaves for Storrs when Geno retires. Seems like five or seven or ten years ago was the time to be yoinking his assistants.

Coaches Capel, Wojo and Collins say hi, as does Coach Hopkins of Syracuse/Washington!

Class of '94
07-04-2020, 07:45 PM
I am very disappointed in Kevin White right now. I tried to keep an open mind on his decision to give P an extension; but to not even consider Coach G for the HC position??!!??

I am both a fan of DWB and Coach G. I thought hiring Coach G would have been the shot in the arm the program needed at this time; and I'd like to think that Coach G would have accepted the position at less than what P was making.

I now feel like KW can't see the obvious. It was clear P wasn't a good fit earlier and he had an opportunity to change the situation sooner (when there was no pandemic) eventhough I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt; and now once again completely ignores the obvious (for me, the clear choice) of at least considering Coach G for the position.

If KW doesn't hit a home run with this hire, I will then be convinced that he is ok with DWB being a fringe Top 25 program and not interested in elevating the program back to being at an elite level and competing for NCs.

It appears now (like many have suggested) that the hire will be based on salary; and imo he may only want to pay in a low range and will be looking for the best available coach in that low price range, which doesn't mean that person is best for the program. It feels like the mindset of Duke football program of the 90s and early 2000s prior to Coach Cut in which the administration hired cheap HCs and assistants and didn't give the program and support that it should have received to make it relevant. My apologies for being Mr Doom and Gloom but I feel like we are heading down the same road with DWB.

Gosh, I hope I'm wrong; and I hope this next hire by KW will do great and elevate the program back to an elite level and compete for (and win) NCs. I just don't know right now.

uh_no
07-04-2020, 09:03 PM
I am very disappointed in Kevin White right now. I tried to keep an open mind on his decision to give P an extension; but to not even consider Coach G for the HC position??!!??

I am both a fan of DWB and Coach G. I thought hiring Coach G would have been the shot in the arm the program needed at this time; and I'd like to think that Coach G would have accepted the position at less than what P was making.


I'm $ure there was a reason. It would be an insult to G to offer her what I think the university likely wants the salary for that job to be.

The game is different. there is no guarantee she would have the success she had 15 years ago, and given the current situation, offering 1 million+ for what isn't a "sure thing" was never going to happen. They'll take a risk on someone cheaper and less proven, and hope it works out. It doesn't mean they don't want the program to succeed.

I don't think using this as some sort of reflection of white is necessarily fair. Yes, we all agree the extension probably was a mistake, but he also is committed to the success of women's sports at Duke. He didn't HAVE to start a softball program, for instance... There are economic realities, though, and the WBB program is likely losing a ton of money right now, and here's an opportunity to bring the expense for the HC of that program more in line with both national standards for the level that the program is currently at, and the revenue that the program is generating.

I'm sure all involved would love for the program's performance and revenue to take off, and to be able to offer an extension to a future coach commensurate with that.

bullettoothtony
07-04-2020, 09:31 PM
I am very disappointed in Kevin White right now. I tried to keep an open mind on his decision to give P an extension; but to not even consider Coach G for the HC position??!!??

I am both a fan of DWB and Coach G. I thought hiring Coach G would have been the shot in the arm the program needed at this time; and I'd like to think that Coach G would have accepted the position at less than what P was making.

I now feel like KW can't see the obvious. It was clear P wasn't a good fit earlier and he had an opportunity to change the situation sooner (when there was no pandemic) eventhough I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt; and now once again completely ignores the obvious (for me, the clear choice) of at least considering Coach G for the position.

If KW doesn't hit a home run with this hire, I will then be convinced that he is ok with DWB being a fringe Top 25 program and not interested in elevating the program back to being at an elite level and competing for NCs.

It appears now (like many have suggested) that the hire will be based on salary; and imo he may only want to pay in a low range and will be looking for the best available coach in that low price range, which doesn't mean that person is best for the program. It feels like the mindset of Duke football program of the 90s and early 2000s prior to Coach Cut in which the administration hired cheap HCs and assistants and didn't give the program and support that it should have received to make it relevant. My apologies for being Mr Doom and Gloom but I feel like we are heading down the same road with DWB.

Gosh, I hope I'm wrong; and I hope this next hire by KW will do great and elevate the program back to an elite level and compete for (and win) NCs. I just don't know right now.



In the absence of other/clarifying information, hard not to understand where Rochelle Parent is coming from when she's quoted in the ESPN article, "It reeks of lack of due diligence."

sagegrouse
07-04-2020, 09:34 PM
I'm $ure there was a reason. It would be an insult to G to offer her what I think the university likely wants the salary for that job to be.

The game is different. there is no guarantee she would have the success she had 15 years ago, and given the current situation, offering 1 million+ for what isn't a "sure thing" was never going to happen. They'll take a risk on someone cheaper and less proven, and hope it works out. It doesn't mean they don't want the program to succeed.

I don't think using this as some sort of reflection of white is necessarily fair. Yes, we all agree the extension probably was a mistake, but he also is committed to the success of women's sports at Duke. He didn't HAVE to start a softball program, for instance... There are economic realities, though, and the WBB program is likely losing a ton of money right now, and here's an opportunity to bring the expense for the HC of that program more in line with both national standards for the level that the program is currently at, and the revenue that the program is generating.

I'm sure all involved would love for the program's performance and revenue to take off, and to be able to offer an extension to a future coach commensurate with that.

This article from two years ago (https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2018/03/12/In-Depth/Team-revenue.aspx) in Sports Business Journal indicates that Duke gets $3.6 million in WBB revenue out of total revenue of $100 million. The $100 M has to include donations; I don't know about the WBB figure.

uh_no
07-04-2020, 09:35 PM
In the absence of other/clarifying information, hard not to understand where Rochelle Parent is coming from when she's quoted in the ESPN article, "It reeks of lack of due diligence."

that's...not how due diligence works. You don't do due diligence on a contract you're not planning on entering into...and by the argument, Duke should be doing due diligence on EVERY candidate they don't plan to hire, which at worst, is the population of the world.

They're not interested in G. It is what it is, for better or worse. They don't need due diligence to not be interested in her.

bullettoothtony
07-05-2020, 08:19 AM
that's...not how due diligence works. You don't do due diligence on a contract you're not planning on entering into...and by the argument, Duke should be doing due diligence on EVERY candidate they don't plan to hire, which at worst, is the population of the world.

They're not interested in G. It is what it is, for better or worse. They don't need due diligence to not be interested in her.

Who made you the arbiter of how due diligence is defined and applied? It can obviously refer to different circumstances and contexts.

Rochelle, and I, obviously meant she didn't get due diligence in terms of consideration, not in terms of a contract. We're perfectly capable of determining what we mean and what language to use. And you're essentially saying, in your laughably sanctimonious way, "no, due diligence can only mean this in this case."

What a silly post. I'm almost sorry I wasted my time responding to it.

miramar
07-05-2020, 08:22 AM
that's...not how due diligence works. You don't do due diligence on a contract you're not planning on entering into...and by the argument, Duke should be doing due diligence on EVERY candidate they don't plan to hire, which at worst, is the population of the world.

They're not interested in G. It is what it is, for better or worse. They don't need due diligence to not be interested in her.

Due diligence in hiring deals with any investigation or background check an organization performs on potential candidates. It can be as simple as checking references or credit scores, or as complicated as the vetting process for Vice President, but it’s only done for the candidate pool.

Ignoring a petition does not apply.

On the other hand, if White is not carefully reading our posts then that would be a clear case of gross incompetence. Or malfeasance. Or something.

dm9e24
07-05-2020, 08:30 AM
.....or just as simple as deciding to move on from the Coach G era. Her shadow was long over Coach P's tenure here also. Just because some don't agree with the decision doesn't mean White is incompetent.

sagegrouse
07-05-2020, 08:58 AM
....or just as simple as deciding to move on from the Coach G era. Her shadow was long over Coach P's tenure here also. Just because some don't agree with the decision doesn't mean White is incompetent.

Everything's been said on the subject, but not everyone has said it. So it's my turn.

Coach G left Duke, a top five women's basketball program, for a lesser program in a part of the country with which she was unfamiliar. As she has said, compensation was not an issue. Then she had five uninspiring years, although -- to be completely fair -- Texas wanted her to stay and at least serve out her full seven-year contract. Let me repeat -- Texas wanted her to stay and she retired anyway. Does that mean she bailed on two high-profile athletic programs? Moreover, while not totally away from the game, she has not been a head coach anywhere in the past eight years.

Although Gail Goestenkors represents the Golden Age of Duke women's hoops, I really don't see how re-hiring her at Duke 28 years after we first hired her would be a way to rebuild the program.

And the minor furor of not interviewing and telling her she was not a candidate -- that's political. Duke wasn't going to rehire Coach G, and they let that be known immediately.

Daddylawman
07-05-2020, 09:02 AM
I'm closing in on 40 years of being a fan of Duke WBB. I had the good fortune to be the team's official scorer in the early/mid 80's.I was a fan of Coach Leonard, and of Coach G after I was gone. I recognize the passion for her here and it is well placed. However, I think hiring her would have been a mistake. Many have pointed out how the game has changed, but my focus would be on the fact that recruiting has changed since she left. The pool of recruits who would be drawn to Duke because of her earlier success would be incredibly small IMHO. I don't think that someome out of the game as long as her would be as effective as a younger person who recruits may find preferable.
Even many advocating for her here talk about her as a transitional coach. Why would a recruit come to Duke knowing the coach is leaving? There is no way you can say "we have the next coach lined up". That simply won't cut it for a 17 or 18 year old looking at her next 4 years. I am not taking anything away from Coach G, she deserves every accolade sent her way, but she woulld have been a poor choice for sustained success at Duke.We need a young, dynamic coach who can related to the "Zoomer" generation.

TheTrain
07-05-2020, 11:47 AM
A young dynamic coach who can relate to zoomers like Coach K, Cut or Dano

Just saw Mack Brown just landed one of the top 10 players in the US

Sorry...age and relatability is just irrelevant

Find me a coach who has the bona fides to bring Duke back to a lofty status

If not Coach G, then somebody who has the potential to be a legend.

CameronBornAndBred
07-05-2020, 11:56 AM
To the folks saying that the game has changed so G wouldn't be a good fit anymore, it's not like she has been sitting on her couch. She has been a coach in the modern WNBA after all, she is an expert on how the game is played. Hell, since she first took the reigns and when she left Duke, the game had changed. She was one of the architects.
I have no doubt that she can and will adapt, regardless of where she winds up. I really, really, really hope whoever does take over succeeds wildly, because he/she is now facing "she's not G" for several years. Again.

throatybeard
07-05-2020, 11:59 AM
The fact that they wouldn't even consider her has vacuumed up what little hope I had that White is even going to try to get this right.

diablesseblu
07-05-2020, 12:10 PM
The fact that they wouldn't even consider her has vacuumed up what little hope I had that White is even going to try to get this right.

I hold little hope White will even try to "get this right." Fully expect him to pick Beth Cunningham, former Notre Dame assistant --- a "safe" choice is his eyes.

Hope I'm wrong. I know little about Cunningham, but if she wasn't a shoo-in for McGraw's job, don't believe she's the best White can find for the Duke job.

53n206
07-05-2020, 12:29 PM
Do we know that White alone decided not to pursue Coach G.? Possibly a joint decision. Regardless, letting G know early was a good move; not only for G. but for all coaches who may be considered.

dudog84
07-05-2020, 12:37 PM
For the people trying to equate Mack Brown and Coach G...You do understand that he went to Texas and won a national championship, right?

I don't have a clue who they will hire, and/or who would be best. But I do believe in the Scientific Method. So I'm putting my money on Jennie Lillis Baranczyk. As recent history (the past 40 years) has shown, Duke only has success with basketball coaches who have unspellable (well, difficult) last names.

Krzyzewski, Goestenkors, ergo Baranczyk.

sagegrouse
07-05-2020, 01:18 PM
For the people trying to equate Mack Brown and Coach G...You do understand that he went to Texas and won a national championship, right?

I don't have a clue who they will hire, and/or who would be best. But I do believe in the Scientific Method. So I'm putting my money on Jennie Lillis Baranczyk. As recent history (the past 40 years) has shown, Duke only has success with basketball coaches who have unspellable (well, difficult) last names.

Krzyzewski, Goestenkors, ergo Baranczyk.

Wouldn't you also qualify Raegan Pebly of TCU by the same criterion?

DU82
07-05-2020, 01:49 PM
The fact that they wouldn't even consider her has vacuumed up what little hope I had that White is even going to try to get this right.

So you know that it’s a “fact” that they didn’t run the scenario about her returning?

The administration didn’t say they didn’t consider her, merely that she wasn’t going to get the job. That tells me they thought about it (it’s not like they didn’t know this was coming) and decided not to go to into the past. This is my speculation based on the comments/quotes in the Voepel article, as I don’t have an inside source.

Now, had you said they didn’t give her a chance to “sell” herself and why she should be hired, that’s different. But that’s not what you said.

I, for one, will hold judgement until the new coach is hired to decide if I feel “they didn’t even try to get this right.”

BD80
07-05-2020, 01:58 PM
Wouldn't you also qualify Raegan Pebly of TCU by the same criterion?

You just drew Scrabble tiles to make that up, didn't you?

sagegrouse
07-05-2020, 02:21 PM
You just drew Scrabble tiles to make that up, didn't you?

Seems like it.

dudog84
07-05-2020, 02:47 PM
Wouldn't you also qualify Raegan Pebly of TCU by the same criterion?

Probably so, since even you didn't spell it correctly! :p

(I had to look her up. Pebley.)

jimsumner
07-05-2020, 03:20 PM
I understand the angst over Goestenkors being eliminated. I share some of it. Maybe a lot of it. But to go from that to Kevin-White-isn't-even-going-to-try-to-get-it-right rather strains credulity. I'm reasonably certain he wants to get this right.

And Nina King is and will continue to be a big part of this. When Duke and White were looking at replacing Sean McNally, White delegated a lot of the search to Brad Berndt and Berndt hit it out of the park with Chris Pollard. I'm a long way from assuming that Duke can't make a comparable hire for women's hoops.

OldPhiKap
07-05-2020, 05:04 PM
I was, and will always be, a fan of Coach G.

Having said that, she has not had a head coaching job since 2012.

Since then, she bounced around two pro teams in two seasons as an assistant coach. As best I can tell, she has been out of coaching for five years.


As a fan, would I like her back? Obviously. From an objective view, if it was not for our personal attachment to her history at our school, would any other school have her on the top of the list? Well, it doesn’t seem to be the case for quite some time.


It would be a feel-good story for her to come back. But she decided to leave us years ago and it’s tough to catch lightning in the bottle twice. If Dr. White feels that she is not a good candidate, I’m cool with that decision.

And of course, I wish G the best luck in all future endeavors.

duke2x
07-06-2020, 12:17 AM
I hold little hope White will even try to "get this right." Fully expect him to pick Beth Cunningham, former Notre Dame assistant --- a "safe" choice is his eyes. Hope I'm wrong. I know little about Cunningham, but if she wasn't a shoo-in for McGraw's job, don't believe she's the best White can find for the Duke job.

https://und.com/coach/beth-cunningham-2/

I would definitely pass based on her record at VCU.

AustinDevil
07-06-2020, 11:02 AM
Do we know that White alone decided not to pursue Coach G.? Possibly a joint decision. Regardless, letting G know early was a good move; not only for G. but for all coaches who may be considered.

You mean a joint decision between White and G? I don't believe that at all comports with the group of former players who were preparing a letter/petition supporting G for the job. They don't do that without her OK.

Class of '94
07-06-2020, 12:10 PM
I was, and will always be, a fan of Coach G.

Having said that, she has not had a head coaching job since 2012.

Since then, she bounced around two pro teams in two seasons as an assistant coach. As best I can tell, she has been out of coaching for five years.


As a fan, would I like her back? Obviously. From an objective view, if it was not for our personal attachment to her history at our school, would any other school have her on the top of the list? Well, it doesn’t seem to be the case for quite some time.


It would be a feel-good story for her to come back. But she decided to leave us years ago and it’s tough to catch lightning in the bottle twice. If Dr. White feels that she is not a good candidate, I’m cool with that decision.

And of course, I wish G the best luck in all future endeavors.

I know it's been said many times in other posts; but respectfully, if you are going to bring up these points as reasons for why it's ok to move on and not consider Coach G, the rehire of Mack Brown pokes holes in those points. He chose to leave UNC as well. He was out of coaching for several years; and yet he was able to catch lightning in the bottle twice at UNC. I'm not saying Gail would've had the same level of success; but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't either. While she chose to leave Duke, it seemed like a major reason for her doing so goes back to her not feeling appreciated or respected by Joe Alleva for all of her accomplishments with the program. If Alleva had done things differently, I strongly feel that she would've remained at Duke.

Please don't think I am attacking you. I appreciate you being respectful of Coach G while also being open-minded to someone other than her being the next HC.

OldPhiKap
07-06-2020, 12:45 PM
I know it's been said many times in other posts; but respectfully, if you are going to bring up these points as reasons for why it's ok to move on and not consider Coach G, the rehire of Mack Brown pokes holes in those points. He chose to leave UNC as well. He was out of coaching for several years; and yet he was able to catch lightning in the bottle twice at UNC. I'm not saying Gail would've had the same level of success; but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't either. While she chose to leave Duke, it seemed like a major reason for her doing so goes back to her not feeling appreciated or respected by Joe Alleva for all of her accomplishments with the program. If Alleva had done things differently, I strongly feel that she would've remained at Duke.

Please don't think I am attacking you. I appreciate you being respectful of Coach G while also being open-minded to someone other than her being the next HC.

Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful response.

Has Mack really caught lightning in a bottle the second time? Probably too early to tell. The Heels were 7-6 last year, and tied for third in the Coastal. They lost to App State in Chapel Hill. Certainly an improvement over The Hat, but the jury is still out.

Mack is also in the College Football Hall of Fame. So maybe not an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Still, your point is very well-taken.

sagegrouse
07-06-2020, 12:51 PM
I know it's been said many times in other posts; but respectfully, if you are going to bring up these points as reasons for why it's ok to move on and not consider Coach G, the rehire of Mack Brown pokes holes in those points. He chose to leave UNC as well. He was out of coaching for several years; and yet he was able to catch lightning in the bottle twice at UNC. I'm not saying Gail would've had the same level of success; but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't either. While she chose to leave Duke, it seemed like a major reason for her doing so goes back to her not feeling appreciated or respected by Joe Alleva for all of her accomplishments with the program. If Alleva had done things differently, I strongly feel that she would've remained at Duke.

Please don't think I am attacking you. I appreciate you being respectful of Coach G while also being open-minded to someone other than her being the next HC.

Oh, my! Mack Brown as a comparison?

First, it's UNC, not Duke -- why is that any standard for comparison, especially on this Board.

Second, he left a good NCAA football program at UNC to go to one of the best at Texas; Goestenkors went from one of the best to one that was clearly at a lower level. That's almost unprecedented -- and could be disqualifying.

Third, Mack Brown won a national championship at Texas and finished 1st or 2nd in the Big 12 South 12 years in a row and was 10-5 in bowl games; Gail never made it past the 2nd round of the NCAA's in her five years (record 1-5) or finished higher than T-4 in conference standings.

Fourth, it's UNC, of doubtful relevance to Duke -- oh, I already said that.

Hartford Dukie
07-06-2020, 01:07 PM
Mack is also in the College Football Hall of Fame. So maybe not an apples-to-oranges comparison.



With all due respect - and there is plenty for you, OPK....

https://www.wbhof.com/famers/gail-goestenkors/

OldPhiKap
07-06-2020, 01:16 PM
With all due respect - and there is plenty for you, OPK...

https://www.wbhof.com/famers/gail-goestenkors/

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected.

triaddukefan
07-06-2020, 03:52 PM
I know it's been said many times in other posts; but respectfully, if you are going to bring up these points as reasons for why it's ok to move on and not consider Coach G, the rehire of Mack Brown pokes holes in those points. He chose to leave UNC as well. He was out of coaching for several years; and yet he was able to catch lightning in the bottle twice at UNC. I'm not saying Gail would've had the same level of success; but it doesn't mean that she wouldn't either. While she chose to leave Duke, it seemed like a major reason for her doing so goes back to her not feeling appreciated or respected by Joe Alleva for all of her accomplishments with the program. If Alleva had done things differently, I strongly feel that she would've remained at Duke.

Please don't think I am attacking you. I appreciate you being respectful of Coach G while also being open-minded to someone other than her being the next HC.


A bit premature in claiming that Brown has caught lightning in a bottle twice. Reverse that botched play on the 1 yard line by Duke... and Mack Brown would have been spending his Christmas at home instead of in Maryland preparing for a bowl :mad: He has done a great job in recruiting for 2021 I will admit.

miramar
07-06-2020, 07:02 PM
I thought that Lindsay Harding at 36 and Joy (Cheek) Smith at 32 seemed a bit young, but then I looked up a certain legendary Duke coach, and it turns out he was hired at 33. Of course he was an Army officer and then a head coach by 28, but all of a sudden Harding and Smith don't seem so young.

sagegrouse
07-06-2020, 07:18 PM
I thought that Lindsay Harding at 36 and Joy (Cheek) Smith at 32 seemed a bit young, but then I looked up a certain legendary Duke coach, and it turns out he was hired at 33. Of course he was an Army officer and then a head coach by 28, but all of a sudden Harding and Smith don't seem so young.

Coach G was 29 when hired by Duke!

A Tom Butters hire. That's two-for-two in hoops.

Stray Gator
07-06-2020, 08:05 PM
The most obvious benefits of bringing Gail back would be the likelihood of (a) an immediate resumption of support for the program from many former season ticket holders who became disenchanted with Coach McCallie, and from many of Gail's former players whose names are recognizable to recruits as well as fans; and (b) an easier transition for the "new coach" based on Gail's familiarity with many of the people in DUAA and with the Duke/Durham community. I'm confident that Dr. White and others in DUAA who might be participating in the hiring process took the importance of those potential advantages into consideration -- and certainly they were already aware of the former players' preference -- when weighing the various factors involved in the decision to exclude Gail from the search at the outset.

We don't know what other factors entered into the decision, or how those factors were evaluated and balanced. FWIW, I doubt that her reasons for leaving Duke, which I understood at the time to be a mix of personal and professional, played a significant role in those deliberations. We may learn more when the process is completed. But at this point the reasons for Duke's decision not to regard Gail as an eligible candidate are moot.

There's no doubt that the support of former season ticket holders and players could accelerate the rebuilding of the Duke women's basketball program. While it may take longer for a new coach with no previous Duke ties to to earn that support, I believe it will help to advance the process if we accept Dr. White's decision to move on and not saddle the next coach with the added burden of laboring in the shadows of a much-lamented predecessor.

jimsumner
07-06-2020, 08:20 PM
Coach G was 29 when hired by Duke!

A Tom Butters hire. That's two-for-two in hoops.

Eddie Cameron was 26 when he became Duke MBB head coach. Vic Bubas was 32.

So, it can happen.

Then again, Cameron became head coach before the Great Depression. Things might have changed a bit.

Back to your regular programming.

uh_no
07-06-2020, 08:39 PM
.
not saddle the next coach with the added burden of laboring in the shadows of a much-lamented predecessor.

at Duke? never /s

burnspbesq
07-07-2020, 11:52 AM
Just one idiot’s opinion, of course, but ...

I’ll be disappointed if it’s anybody but Gottlieb. I think it’s beyond reasoned dispute that she has the best resume, and Duke should be able to make her an offer that’s comfortably in excess of the going rate for NBA assistants.

OldPhiKap
07-07-2020, 11:54 AM
Just one idiot’s opinion, of course, but ...

I’ll be disappointed if it’s anybody but Gottlieb.

I dunno. He's alarmingly unqualified.



Oh, sorry. I thought you meant Doug Gottlieb. Never mind.

(Lindsay would be a good get.)

CameronBornAndBred
07-07-2020, 12:03 PM
Just one idiot’s opinion, of course, but ...

I’ll be disappointed if it’s anybody but Gottlieb. I think it’s beyond reasoned dispute that she has the best resume, and Duke should be able to make her an offer that’s comfortably in excess of the going rate for NBA assistants.

I don't think it is about money for her. I've been reading a few articles, and you can tell that she is enjoying doing what she is doing in the NBA. She was a head coach at Cal for 9 years. Been there, done that, on to new roads. She was even offered a head coaching job for a G League team and turned it down.

uh_no
07-07-2020, 12:21 PM
I don't think it is about money for her. I've been reading a few articles, and you can tell that she is enjoying doing what she is doing in the NBA. She was a head coach at Cal for 9 years. Been there, done that, on to new roads. She was even offered a head coaching job for a G League team and turned it down.

that's my thought. it would be a step backwards. Cal was already paying her in the range of what I assume Duke would like to offer. If she wanted to be coaching at the college level, she would be.

jimsumner
07-07-2020, 12:31 PM
that's my thought. it would be a step backwards. Cal was already paying her in the range of what I assume Duke would like to offer. If she wanted to be coaching at the college level, she would be.

Gottlieb and Harding both have a chance to do something no other woman has done, be an NBA head coach. If that is a realistic goal and if either is absolutely committed to seeing that through then I can't see Duke being able to match that. Or any other college.

CamrnCrz1974
07-07-2020, 01:13 PM
Thanks, I appreciate the thoughtful response.

Has Mack really caught lightning in a bottle the second time? Probably too early to tell. The Heels were 7-6 last year, and tied for third in the Coastal. They lost to App State in Chapel Hill. Certainly an improvement over The Hat, but the jury is still out.

Mack is also in the College Football Hall of Fame. So maybe not an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Still, your point is very well-taken.

So is Gail Goestenkors.

Goestenkors was inducted into the Women's Basketball Hall of Fame as one of six members of the Class of 2015.

CamrnCrz1974
07-07-2020, 01:16 PM
Just one idiot’s opinion, of course, but ...

I’ll be disappointed if it’s anybody but Gottlieb. I think it’s beyond reasoned dispute that she has the best resume, and Duke should be able to make her an offer that’s comfortably in excess of the going rate for NBA assistants.

Gottlieb would be a tremendous disappointment and the result of looking at a resume and not the entire picture.

Gottlieb started off strong at Cal, with Joanne Boyle's players, getting the team to the Final Four in 2013.

In the years after that, however, she was completely unable to keep up with the PAC 12. In her last four years, she could not crack the top four in the conference. While Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Stanford all became Final Four teams afterward, Cal took a noticeable step back, even with Kristine Anigwe there for Gottlieb's last four years.

ehdg
07-07-2020, 02:10 PM
Gottlieb would be a tremendous disappointment and the result of looking at a resume and not the entire picture.

Gottlieb started off strong at Cal, with Joanne Boyle's players, getting the team to the Final Four in 2013.

In the years after that, however, she was completely unable to keep up with the PAC 12. In her last four years, she could not crack the top four in the conference. While Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Stanford all became Final Four teams afterward, Cal took a noticeable step back, even with Kristine Anigwe there for Gottlieb's last four years.

wow this sounds familiar to what we had here with McCallie following Coach G. She did really well the first few years after Coach G and then things took a very noticeable down turn.

miramar
07-07-2020, 05:49 PM
Gottlieb would be a tremendous disappointment and the result of looking at a resume and not the entire picture.

Gottlieb started off strong at Cal, with Joanne Boyle's players, getting the team to the Final Four in 2013.

In the years after that, however, she was completely unable to keep up with the PAC 12. In her last four years, she could not crack the top four in the conference. While Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Stanford all became Final Four teams afterward, Cal took a noticeable step back, even with Kristine Anigwe there for Gottlieb's last four years.

What we are really concerned about: the postseason.

After the Final Four team in 2013, it was NCAA second round, second round, didn't make it, second round, first round, second round. Her Pac 12 record in those six years is 56-52.

Next play.

Daddylawman
07-07-2020, 06:10 PM
Gottlieb would be a tremendous disappointment and the result of looking at a resume and not the entire picture.

Gottlieb started off strong at Cal, with Joanne Boyle's players, getting the team to the Final Four in 2013.

In the years after that, however, she was completely unable to keep up with the PAC 12. In her last four years, she could not crack the top four in the conference. While Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, and Stanford all became Final Four teams afterward, Cal took a noticeable step back, even with Kristine Anigwe there for Gottlieb's last four years.


Which brings up a question perhaps someone can answer - what about Boyle? The issus with her adoption resolved last year, she's coached in the ACC and she's an alum.

dudog84
07-07-2020, 06:16 PM
Which brings up a question perhaps someone can answer - what about Boyle? The issus with her adoption resolved last year, she's coached in the ACC and she's an alum.

Do people not have google? Look, she's a really fine person, but we're looking for a basketball coach, supposedly one who can lead us to the promised land.

jimsumner
07-07-2020, 07:58 PM
Which brings up a question perhaps someone can answer - what about Boyle? The issus with her adoption resolved last year, she's coached in the ACC and she's an alum.

Great person. But she's 56 and she was 53-61 in ACC games at UVa.

bluedevilsince72
07-08-2020, 12:29 AM
Almost as crazy as suggesting Lindsay Harding as the next coach. She has a little bit of experience coaching in her current NBA position. I know some coaches in that NBA position and they are basically rebounders for NBA players to get up shots. She has zero experience dealing with the team dynamics of a college team, recruiting, and in game experience with Xs and Os, I hate to mention these things because Lindsay is one of the all time bests, but she's extremely far away from being ready to coach.

I would also say the same applies to Alana Beard who has even less experience coaching. Being a great player doesn't automatically make you a great coach (Magic Johnson). In fact, I think she has zero experience coaching.

10 years down the road these 2 could possibly turn into great coaches. But being a great coach requires a lot of time on the bench (not including playing experience).

I'm leaning towards the Drake coach. Great style of play, young and energetic, and experience as a successful D1 coach. Another dark horse could be Charlotte Smith, one of the most successful African-American coaches the past 5 years. Obvious ties to UNC hurt, but I can get over that. I'm worried White is looking at Cunningham (ND asst) due to his ties there. Not enough head coaching experience for me. And the success of ND was mainly Muffet, ND name, and Nielle Ivey's recruiting.

jv001
07-08-2020, 10:05 AM
Almost as crazy as suggesting Lindsay Harding as the next coach. She has a little bit of experience coaching in her current NBA position. I know some coaches in that NBA position and they are basically rebounders for NBA players to get up shots. She has zero experience dealing with the team dynamics of a college team, recruiting, and in game experience with Xs and Os, I hate to mention these things because Lindsay is one of the all time bests, but she's extremely far away from being ready to coach.

I would also say the same applies to Alana Beard who has even less experience coaching. Being a great player doesn't automatically make you a great coach (Magic Johnson). In fact, I think she has zero experience coaching.

10 years down the road these 2 could possibly turn into great coaches. But being a great coach requires a lot of time on the bench (not including playing experience).

I'm leaning towards the Drake coach. Great style of play, young and energetic, and experience as a successful D1 coach. Another dark horse could be Charlotte Smith, one of the most successful African-American coaches the past 5 years. Obvious ties to UNC hurt, but I can get over that. I'm worried White is looking at Cunningham (ND asst) due to his ties there. Not enough head coaching experience for me. And the success of ND was mainly Muffet, ND name, and Nielle Ivey's recruiting.

Joy Cheek Smith. All I'm going to say.

GoDuke!

sagegrouse
07-08-2020, 11:32 AM
This is a fun thread -- sorta like a dorm discussion or talk in the company cafeteria. The only piece of information we have is "not Coach G." So, me included, we are just "goosing ghosts" -- speculating, expressing opinions, imagining things, reporting rumors, making up rumors.

budwom
07-08-2020, 11:35 AM
Meanwhile Kevin White will show his leadership (and inoculate himself from criticism) by hiring an outside firm to suggest candidates...I know, lots of schools do this (this is how we nearly got Karl Dorrell as our football coach:))

I kinda liked Tom Butters' approach...

CameronBornAndBred
07-08-2020, 11:57 AM
Joy Cheek Smith. All I'm going to say.

GoDuke!

Yup. She's been my #1 pick forever. More than her experience with coaching at more than just one school (three, now I think, with Duke, Ohio St, and Clemson) is that she is an amazing recruiter. A couple of Duke's highly ranked classes were in no small part thanks to her. She is akin to how Jeff Capel was to the men's team.

(PS, Joy Smith now.)

peloton
07-08-2020, 12:15 PM
Joy Cheek Smith. All I'm going to say.GoDuke!


Yup. She's been my #1 pick forever.

I'll have what jv001 and CameronBornAndBred are having ;).

DU82
07-08-2020, 12:20 PM
Yup. She's been my #1 pick forever. More than her experience with coaching at more than just one school (three, now I think, with Duke, Ohio St, and Clemson) is that she is an amazing recruiter. A couple of Duke's highly ranked classes were in no small part thanks to her. She is akin to how Jeff Capel was to the men's team.

(PS, Joy Smith now.)

You left out her short stay at Vanderbilt.

I don’t necessarily look at her “experience ...at more than just one school” as a positive. Not sure four schools in eight years is a great record, especially when none of the head coaches were fired (and the staff replaced.). On the other hand, she is regarded positively among the coaching profession, so that’s a positive.

Joy Smith, or Shannon Perry, are the likely favorites of former Duke players/coaches, if that’s the route that’s taken. I would probably stop going to games, on the other hand, if CHARLOTTE Smith were hired. Just say no to cheaters.

CameronBornAndBred
07-08-2020, 12:31 PM
I would probably stop going to games, on the other hand, if CHARLOTTE Smith were hired. Just say no to cheaters.

That would be kind of odd to be a Duke player in Carmichael and looking up in the rafters to see your coach's jersey.

throatybeard
07-08-2020, 02:53 PM
Y'all have convinced me on Joy Cheek Smith.

Which, of course, makes me worry that White won't even consider her.

chrishoke
07-08-2020, 04:03 PM
I like Joy a lot, but I strongly prefer someone with head coaching experience. Running and leading a program is a lot more than recruiting.

triaddukefan
07-08-2020, 04:31 PM
Joy Cheek Smith. All I'm going to say.

GoDuke!


One potential problem. Per her twitter... she posted on May 10 that she was 27 weeks pregnant.

https://twitter.com/CoachJoy21/status/1259543460069203973

chrishoke
07-08-2020, 04:36 PM
One potential problem. Per her twitter... she posted on May 10 that she was 27 weeks pregnant.

https://twitter.com/CoachJoy21/status/1259543460069203973

Congrats to Joy. Thanks for sharing that.

chrishoke
07-08-2020, 04:38 PM
Nice interview of Lindsey Harding by Mikayla Boykin. Lindsey is a very impressive young woman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHpKFdONbOc&feature=youtu.be

AustinDevil
07-08-2020, 05:01 PM
One potential problem. Per her twitter... she posted on May 10 that she was 27 weeks pregnant.

https://twitter.com/CoachJoy21/status/1259543460069203973

Assuming you mean "potential problem" only in the sense that she might not be interested in taking on the heavier workload at this juncture?

throatybeard
07-08-2020, 05:53 PM
27w. Sounds like Babby Cheek-Smith will pop out right around Midnight Madness.

Or would, if events were taking place.

CrazyNotCrazie
07-08-2020, 06:03 PM
27w. Sounds like Babby Cheek-Smith will pop out right around Midnight Madness.

Or would, if events were taking place.

She was 27 weeks on May 10. So she is likely due early August. Really well timed pregnancy for a basketball coach - the bulk of her pregnancy is during the off-season, she has the baby in early August, and is a few months into the routine of parenthood (if there is such a thing) by the time the season would normally be starting.

Good luck to Coach Joy!

throatybeard
07-08-2020, 06:07 PM
She was 27 weeks on May 10. So she is likely due early August. Really well timed pregnancy for a basketball coach - the bulk of her pregnancy is during the off-season, she has the baby in early August, and is a few months into the routine of parenthood (if there is such a thing) by the time the season would normally be starting.

Good luck to Coach Joy!

Hire her and fill DukeWBB's 'gram with pix of Babby Cheek-Smith!

CameronBornAndBred
07-08-2020, 06:08 PM
One potential problem. Per her twitter... she posted on May 10 that she was 27 weeks pregnant.

https://twitter.com/CoachJoy21/status/1259543460069203973

That kid will be an easy recruit in 18 years!

CameronBornAndBred
07-08-2020, 06:10 PM
PS...per the pregnancy, does anyone remember Brenda Frese coaching from a reclining office chair during hers? I think she beat Duke at least once from that thing.

throatybeard
07-08-2020, 06:22 PM
PS...per the pregnancy, does anyone remember Brenda Frese coaching from a reclining office chair during hers? I think she beat Duke at least once from that thing.

She's closing in on 500 wins!

gadzooks
07-08-2020, 09:26 PM
PS...per the pregnancy, does anyone remember Brenda Frese coaching from a reclining office chair during hers? I think she beat Duke at least once from that thing.

And she was carrying TWINS! Big. Damn. Hero.

loran16
07-10-2020, 12:17 PM
@JimmyHyams
Kara Lawson, former star for the Lady Vols and assistant coach for the Boston Celtics, has emerged as a leading candidate for the Duke women's basketball job.

Thoughts?

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 12:25 PM
@JimmyHyams
Kara Lawson, former star for the Lady Vols and assistant coach for the Boston Celtics, has emerged as a leading candidate for the Duke women's basketball job.

Thoughts?

UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

msdukie
07-10-2020, 12:29 PM
UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

She was specifically and routinely belittling P's coaching, not Duke.

loran16
07-10-2020, 12:39 PM
UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

Well, I guess we wouldn't have to worry about continuing P's choice of playstyle.....

CameronBlue
07-10-2020, 01:29 PM
UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

And I can see we're off to a good start.

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 01:30 PM
It seems to me that Lawson's only coaching experience has been this past year as an assistant with the Celtics. No college experience in coaching nor recruiting.
I don't understand the attraction at all.

Story out from the N&O about how she is close to being hired. Sigh.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article244129572.html

Mike Corey
07-10-2020, 01:49 PM
UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

The fact that she rightly criticized our coaching while we got obliterated once again by UConn is a good sign that her standards are appropriately high for a program like Duke's.

That's a good start, in my opinion.

When she and Brad Stevens are running the women's and men's programs together at Duke, they'll have a significant task in maintaining and advancing Duke's high standards on and off the court.

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 02:05 PM
The fact that she rightly criticized our coaching while we got obliterated once again by UConn is a good sign that her standards are appropriately high for a program like Duke's.


2/3 of this board rightfully criticized our coaching. It doesn't mean any of us are qualified to take over, though. She has no experience in what it takes to run a college program other than being a player.
Who knows, if she's hired, maybe she will be great, but I'm missing something here big time.

sagegrouse
07-10-2020, 02:11 PM
It seems to me that Lawson's only coaching experience has been this past year as an assistant with the Celtics. No college experience in coaching nor recruiting.
I don't understand the attraction at all.

Story out from the N&O about how she is close to being hired. Sigh.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/article244129572.html

College coaching experience aside, she seems like a class act. Hired by the Celtics as a coach; played in the WNBA for 13 years; serves as a trustee for the U. of Tennessee; Olympic gold in Beijing (also World U. Games); media professional.

I hope Kara is an inspired choice. She at least will know the names of the players, not just their numbers.

Kindly,
Sage
'We won't mark her down 'cuz she was at Sidwell Friends with Chelsea Clinton for at least one year'

brlftz
07-10-2020, 02:16 PM
Ben Swain agrees (https://twitter.com/TheBenSwain/status/1281619673000423431)

budwom
07-10-2020, 02:21 PM
She's only been with the Celts for a year...is that too soon to depart?

jimsumner
07-10-2020, 02:41 PM
I believe any coach hired without significant coaching experience would address that in her staff.

chrishoke
07-10-2020, 02:41 PM
The Chronicle is indicating that she may be hired as early as today.

Mike Corey
07-10-2020, 02:45 PM
2/3 of this board rightfully criticized our coaching. It doesn't mean any of us are qualified to take over, though. She has no experience in what it takes to run a college program other than being a player.
Who knows, if she's hired, maybe she will be great, but I'm missing something here big time.

That's of course a separate point than I was making, but I digress.

As massively impressively as the people on DBR are, I'd be willing to bet that you're right. But I'd also be willing to bet that none of those people have amassed Coach Lawson's record of achievement on the basketball court as a player.

Is it a risk to hire someone whose only coaching experience is one season as an assistant to one of the best basketball coaches in America, and whose pedigree included being a star player for the greatest women's basketball coach of all time? Sure. But is the potential reward enormous? I think so.

Definitely a less certain hire than others that AD White could make.

Regardless, let's not compare us DBR posters' credentials to that of one of the more impressive college basketball players of the last 20 years.

brlftz
07-10-2020, 02:46 PM
I'm 100% on board. She's got star power and a track record of success at everything she's done so far, and the NBA experience is an unusual feather in her cap. It's the kind of hire that could inject a ton of energy into what had become a depressing program. My big fear (aside from lack of HC experience) is that the Vols will eventually come calling, and I can't imagine her saying no.

ETA: yet another HC we would have to worry about being poached by UT.
Also ETA: wow, imagine getting to play for Pat Summitt and then being at Duke coaching hoops alongside Coach K. She'll have some stories to tell

uh_no
07-10-2020, 02:46 PM
UGH!!!! I loathe her! She has belittled Duke during her ESPN broadcasts so many times! Biggest one that stands out was during a game that we losing (again) to UCONN, and her comment was "there was a waste of 40 minutes".

sounds like she would have fit right in with most posts on this board during such games. Not that I totally am a fan of saying it like that on air, but it's not like the sentiment was not shared by most here.

uh_no
07-10-2020, 02:52 PM
I'm 100% on board. She's got star power and a track record of success at everything she's done so far, and the NBA experience is an unusual feather in her cap. It's the kind of hire that could inject a ton of energy into what had become a depressing program. My big fear (aside from lack of HC experience) is that the Vols will eventually come calling, and I can't imagine her saying no.

ETA: yet another HC we would have to worry about being poached by UT.

While I agree with the concern about lack of experience, if the price is right, it is certainly worth the risk.

I understand the program wanting new blood, and pulling in someone who has been at a program at the heights of its success, and who played for oen of the most illustrious coaches of all time. Ideally she'll have some mix of talent on her staff to address both a lack of HC and Duke experience.

Either way, if she's willing to jump at a price, it could be a boon. We shall see, presumably.

Phredd3
07-10-2020, 02:54 PM
sounds like she would have fit right in with most posts on this board during such games. Not that I totally am a fan of saying it like that on air, but it's not like the sentiment was not shared by most here.

Her bluntness actually concerns me. Coaches need to be able to pull more punches than they throw, I think. On the other hand, most of what I've heard from her was delivered in her role as an analyst, and that job description is very different from coaching. As an analyst, you are hired to say what you think about the game with no holds barred. She certainly seemed insightful about the game and very capable of Xs and Os. I just wonder if she can inspire a team.

But I'm certainly willing to support her while she tries to do that. She'll need a substantial "honeymoon" period, given the current state of recruiting.

miramar
07-10-2020, 03:02 PM
I'm 100% on board. She's got star power and a track record of success at everything she's done so far, and the NBA experience is an unusual feather in her cap. It's the kind of hire that could inject a ton of energy into what had become a depressing program. My big fear (aside from lack of HC experience) is that the Vols will eventually come calling, and I can't imagine her saying no.

We are in absolutely uncharted territory here. This must be the first time in WBB history that three of the apparent contenders for a HC position have NBA experience. That doesn't even happen in your typical search for a men's head coach.

That is kind of amazing to me considering that I still remember seeing six on six women's basketball as a freshman in high school back in 1969, where three players stayed in the back court and three in the front court (wearing skirts) so that the girls wouldn't have to make too much of an effort. I just looked it up and it turns out that "basquette" was last played in 1995 in Oklahoma high schools. This NBA stuff would have seemed like something out of Star Wars back then.

1991 duke law
07-10-2020, 03:03 PM
As everyone knows, our opinion does not count. So I feel comfortable providing it as nothing will turn on it.

I find it peculiar to hire someone who has virtually no coaching experience. Notwithstanding that they were an excellent player. I have no idea what financial commitment the school is making in this hire, but to provide a long-term contract for a meaningful amount of money to someone who has no experience - let alone success - in college coaching is not something that I would view as a good decision.

I have no reason to think that she is anything but a superb person. But the same was true of Danny Manning. Admittedly, you can hire someone with experience who can fail just as badly as someone who has no experience. But a track record and an understanding of the dynamics associated with college coaching would seem to me to be a valuable asset.

I would have thought that Duke was a marquee job – such that a Hail Mary pass was not necessary. And I would submit that hiring someone with no coaching experience (one year as an assistant coach for a professional basketball team is not sufficient to constitute much in the way of experience) is a Hail Mary. To be clear, I do not feel so strongly about this to fight over it. Just my two cents.

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 03:03 PM
But I'm certainly willing to support her while she tries to do that. She'll need a substantial "honeymoon" period, given the current state of recruiting.

I'm on board with that part. I won't be thrilled, perhaps even a little ticked off because she has rubbed me the wrong way so much in the past, but IF she becomes the Duke coach, I will support her and hope for the best. The success of the team and rebuilding of our elite status is what I care most about. And when she succeeds greatly, and makes that happen, and goes back home to Knoxville after Tennessee steals her away, I'll anxiously look forward to who our next hire will be. :p:rolleyes:

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 03:08 PM
I have no reason to think that she is anything but a superb person. But the same was true of Danny Manning. Admittedly, you can hire someone with experience who can fail just as badly as someone who has no experience. But a track record and an understanding of the dynamics associated with college coaching would seem to me to be a valuable asset.


Ding ding ding.
Sporks your way.

uh_no
07-10-2020, 03:11 PM
I would have thought that Duke was a marquee job – such that a Hail Mary pass was not necessary. And I would submit that hiring someone with no coaching experience (one year as an assistant coach for a professional basketball team is not sufficient to constitute much in the way of experience) is a Hail Mary. To be clear, I do not feel so strongly about this to fight over it. Just my two cents.

it may be a marquee job....but Duke probably doesn't want to pay marquee money right now....so hail mary it is.

budwom
07-10-2020, 03:15 PM
it may be a marquee job...but Duke probably doesn't want to pay marquee money right now...so hail mary it is.

I'm not sure I'd call it a hail mary as I bet they know what the Celts are paying her...only a few NBA assistants make a million bucks a year (McCallie's salary, right?)...So I suspect something in the $500k-750k range could be competitive, given the new financial landscape.

OR, she could wait til Brad Stevens takes the Duke job, become an assistant coach here, that works for me, too.

CameronBornAndBred
07-10-2020, 03:25 PM
So does Coach Kara schedule Tennessee ASAP, or never?
I'm guessing that she and Geno have at least some sort of relationship given her analyst job and having played for Pat. (Hell, I can't imagine that Geno didn't recruit her, too.) Maybe she can get UCONN back on the schedule. (If she does, she better not waste 40 minutes of my life.)

uh_no
07-10-2020, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure I'd call it a hail mary as I bet they know what the Celts are paying her...only a few NBA assistants make a million bucks a year (McCallie's salary, right?)...So I suspect something in the $500k-750k range could be competitive, given the new financial landscape.

OR, she could wait til Brad Stevens takes the Duke job, become an assistant coach here, that works for me, too.

I think the hail mary was describing a candidate with no experience or track record but who has major upside. I was just using the previous posters word.


So does Coach Kara schedule Tennessee ASAP, or never?
I'm guessing that she and Geno have at least some sort of relationship given her analyst job and having played for Pat. (Hell, I can't imagine that Geno didn't recruit her, too.) Maybe she can get UCONN back on the schedule. (If she does, she better not waste 40 minutes of my life.)

with ND way down and the retirement of muffet, I would HOPE she has aspirations of getting the likes of uconn/baylor/stanford back on the regular rotation. We have USC and tx A+M, which is a good start....but ya gotta be in those big-time games in women's basketball, and there just aren't enough of them in league play.

Geno doesn't have a particularly good relationship with duke, stemming back to the G days, though it was nothing to do with the individual coaches, but he continued coming to cameron anyway (so hard to know what is just puffery with him), and has largely played anyone who will wants to play him. Tennessee's isssue with Duke was Pat. I think that would be a good one to get started, as it brings a big name without necessarily the dominance currently.

Either way. Get these women a platform. Maybe we take some lumps early...but ideally they get coached up a bit.

killerleft
07-10-2020, 03:59 PM
As Mr. Sumner volunteered, the experience Lawson doesn't have could be hired as an assistant coach. I don't look at this (expected) hire as a Hail Mary. Kara Lawson is a high-visibility name. Her background is solid, and she certainly passes the test for basketball IQ. I certainly would favor her over Langley or Baranczyk.

Lindsey Harding has very similar qualifications. I wonder if she was considered, or if she may have let it be known she didn't want the job?

I love Alana Beard, but SHE would be the Hail Mary hire. One I would welcome.:o Go Duke!