Immediate eligibility transfer vote

[SupaDave]

So while Tom Izzo and Vitale disagree...

"Wow if transfers r able to be eligible immediately CHAOS will prevail, word is it will pass when voted on in May,” Vitale tweeted Wednesday. “The # of transfers will be off the charts & wheeling ,dealing & CHEATING will be rampant. The mid major stars & elite schools non starters will be raided.”

I think a recirculation of players would be GREAT for college basketball. Mid-majors and HBCU's could see their programs flourish.

As far as cheating is concerned, I just don't see it. The schools with the behind the scenes "push" just don't need to scramble for transfers.

Think of a school like UGA, who are they gonna scramble/cheat for (school chosen b/c yes, they have cheated)?

[budwom]

do we know the details yet, i.e. the original notion was that you can transfer only once (to play immediately)..and it would take effect in 2021-22...

[jimsumner]

So while Tom Izzo and Vitale disagree...

"Wow if transfers r able to be eligible immediately CHAOS will prevail, word is it will pass when voted on in May,” Vitale tweeted Wednesday. “The # of transfers will be off the charts & wheeling ,dealing & CHEATING will be rampant. The mid major stars & elite schools non starters will be raided.”

I think a recirculation of players would be GREAT for college basketball. Mid-majors and HBCU's could see their programs flourish.

As far as cheating is concerned, I just don't see it. The schools with the behind the scenes "push" just don't need to scramble for transfers.

Think of a school like UGA, who are they gonna scramble/cheat for (school chosen b/c yes, they have cheated)?

I suspect that the mid-majors will see their top players poached by the big boys on a regular basis.

[SupaDave]

I suspect that the mid-majors will see their top players poached by the big boys on a regular basis.

I can see that - but how many ballers is that? 10? 12? Once you're good enough to get poached - you also might be draft material.

There's a lot of things at play. As mentioned above, I'm not sure of all the details yet but it seems to me that schools like Butler and Davidson with a lot to offer can get some quality folks to come and visit.

[Kedsy]

I can see that - but how many ballers is that? 10? 12? Once you're good enough to get poached - you also might be draft material.

There's a lot of things at play. As mentioned above, I'm not sure of all the details yet but it seems to me that schools like Butler and Davidson with a lot to offer can get some quality folks to come and visit.

I'm just guessing like everyone else, but it seems to me the "trades" would be uneven. Guys like Obi Toppin might end up at places like Kentucky or Kansas or Duke and in return, guys like Alex O'Connell would end up at places like Butler or Davidson or Dayton.

[SupaDave]

I'm just guessing like everyone else, but it seems to me the "trades" would be uneven. Guys like Obi Toppin might end up at places like Kentucky or Kansas or Duke and in return, guys like Alex O'Connell would end up at places like Butler or Davidson or Dayton.

But technically, isn't that literally what's already happening right now? O'Connell to Creighton and Toppin to the draft. That's what I'm saying, why choose Kentucky when they are one step away from the NBA?

[Kedsy]

But technically, isn't that literally what's already happening right now? O'Connell to Creighton and Toppin to the draft. That's what I'm saying, why choose Kentucky when they are one step away from the NBA?

Well, sort of. If the rule had been in place before last season, Toppin wasn't going to the NBA (though he averaged 14 and 6 as a freshman and was obviously a great player). Instead of going to the NBA, he went back to Dayton, but if an immediate transfer was available he probably would have ended up somewhere else. In exchange for that, even if Dayton could have made itself seem like a good destination, it would have ended up with an O'Connell-type player. An uneven trade.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I can see that - but how many ballers is that? 10? 12? Once you're good enough to get poached - you also might be draft material.

There's a lot of things at play. As mentioned above, I'm not sure of all the details yet but it seems to me that schools like Butler and Davidson with a lot to offer can get some quality folks to come and visit.
I think you’re radically underestimating the impact here. There were approximately 700 basketball transfers per year for each of the last three years. Here are some interesting NCAA data on transfers:

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/research/transfers/Jan2020RES_DestD1MBBTransfers.pdf

What do you think it will look like if every student-athlete suddenly has total freedom of movement? I agree with Vitale and others who think it will be chaotic ugliness.

[Hingeknocker]

Well, sort of. If the rule had been in place before last season, Toppin wasn't going to the NBA (though he averaged 14 and 6 as a freshman and was obviously a great player). Instead of going to the NBA, he went back to Dayton, but if an immediate transfer was available he probably would have ended up somewhere else. In exchange for that, even if Dayton could have made itself seem like a good destination, it would have ended up with an O'Connell-type player. An uneven trade.

I think it remains to be seen whether or not a player like Toppin would have transferred, given immediately eligibility being available. For one thing, the blue bloods *probably* already have their recruiting wrapped up by the time a player like Toppin entered the transfer portal. Would they have an available scholarship? If they did, would their existing players/incoming class be a fit for Toppin? For another, it's not obvious that Toppin would even prefer to transfer. He knows that he's going to be "the guy" at Dayton and also knows that playing for a smaller school is no impediment to being drafted highly (i.e. Ja Morant), so does he need to make the move?

All in all, even if someone like Toppin did want to transfer, I would be all for it. The players should be as free to move as the coaches are. But really I think the fear-mongering being offered by Vitale/Izzo deserves more scrutiny.

[Kedsy]

For one thing, the blue bloods *probably* already have their recruiting wrapped up by the time a player like Toppin entered the transfer portal. Would they have an available scholarship?

I don’t know about UK or KU, but when’s the last time Duke used all of its available scholarships on recruited players? I can’t imagine the scholarship limit would be an impediment for a guy like Toppin. Nor, for a potential All-American, would “fit” be an impediment.

[BD80]

I don’t know about UK or KU, but when’s the last time Duke used all of its available scholarships on recruited players? I can’t imagine the scholarship limit would be an impediment for a guy like Toppin. Nor, for a potential All-American, would “fit” be an impediment.

This HAS to be the definition of a rhetorical question! If Kedsy doesn't have the answer, who would?

[Hingeknocker]

I don’t know about UK or KU, but when’s the last time Duke used all of its available scholarships on recruited players? I can’t imagine the scholarship limit would be an impediment for a guy like Toppin. Nor, for a potential All-American, would “fit” be an impediment.

I think Duke is on one end of the distribution when it comes to using the full allotment of scholarships. But, yes, I do think "fit" could be an impediment. For example, in the Carter/Bagley year, Carter was an early commit while Bagley came in at the end. It has been reported that the resulting fit wasn't exactly smooth; Carter ended up playing in a system he wasn't anticipating at the time he committed.

If another, AA-level player had become available in that same position, would he have been an automatic take? I'm not sure. And given that uncertainty, when Izzo or Vitale makes their argument, I think some scrutiny is merited.

[Truth&Justise]

The players should be as free to move as the coaches are.

While coaches can and do move all the time, they are also under contract for a set term. Yes, there are ways these can be terminated early, but it gives the schools some stability to know that they can (generally) keep a coach they like until the end of his contract.

Similarly, I've heard old timers decry the lack of stability in NBA franchises, and how players change teams all the time. But again, players sign multi-year contracts; not everyone is on the move every year.

So without passing on the moral side of the equation, allowing all players immediate eligibility on transfer (particularly if that's the default rule every year) would probably be fairly chaotic and lead to even more year-to-year roster changeover than we are accustomed to.

[Kedsy]

I think Duke is on one end of the distribution when it comes to using the full allotment of scholarships. But, yes, I do think "fit" could be an impediment. For example, in the Carter/Bagley year, Carter was an early commit while Bagley came in at the end. It has been reported that the resulting fit wasn't exactly smooth; Carter ended up playing in a system he wasn't anticipating at the time he committed.

If another, AA-level player had become available in that same position, would he have been an automatic take? I'm not sure. And given that uncertainty, when Izzo or Vitale makes their argument, I think some scrutiny is merited.

The Bagley/Carter situation is a perfect example. Marvin was available and we took him, regardless of "fit."

And that season, Bolden, DeLaurier, and O'Connell combined for 1165 minutes. We would almost certainly have taken another AA-level player, if they were available, especially since you never know if all of those guys would still have been around if they could have transferred out without penalty.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

If I read and understood this correctly (and it’s entirely possible I’m missing the point), the immediate eligibility waiver now looks like it’s in doubt.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29118140/ncaa-board-does-not-recommend-changes-transfer-waiver-process

[JasonEvans]

If I read and understood this correctly (and it’s entirely possible I’m missing the point), the immediate eligibility waiver now looks like it’s in doubt.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/29118140/ncaa-board-does-not-recommend-changes-transfer-waiver-process

This story does a much better job of explaining what happened.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-board-recommends-against-major-change-to-transfer-rules-vote-still-expected-next-month-171629219.html


What happens when the NCAA’s highest-ranking governing body does not support an anticipated rule change? We’ll likely find out next month.

The NCAA Division I Council is expected to vote on the hotly debated one-time transfer exemption on May 20. The exemption would allow athletes in football, men’s basketball, women’s basketball, hockey and baseball to transfer to a new school without having to sit out the following season for the so-called “year-in-residence.” Athletes in all other sports can compete immediately at their new school after transferring.

The NCAA’s Board of Directors met this week and the one-time transfer exemption was a topic of conversation. On Thursday, the NCAA revealed that the board is recommending against implementing changes to the transfer waiver process “at this time.” In a press release, the ongoing coronavirus pandemic was cited as a reason.

Despite the Board of Directors’ recommendation, the Division I Council can still vote to change the rule next month. Since the proposal was made public earlier this year, reports on whether or not it was expected to pass have varied. Though a vote still may take place, it looks like the issue will be pushed down the road.

Seems like they are going to postpone the rules change for at least another year. There is concern that opening up a ton of transfers this summer, in the middle of a crisis in which people are supposed to be sheltering in place, is not a good idea. That certainly makes a lot of sense.

[MChambers]

Feinstein is not pleased (not that he ever is): https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/05/04/coaches-strongly-oppose-transfer-waiver-so-dont-expect-ncaa-do-right-thing/