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Billy Dat
04-14-2020, 10:36 AM
First off, I browsed back through 20 pages of threads to find a discussion on this topic (I am sure there are myriad others buried in threads with different titles) and, upon finding one, found it to be closed because, after 4 pages, it had devolved into name calling and the moderator felt it was a tired topic. So, I am not sure that's a great set-up for this but I found these fresh tweets from John Feinstein and thought they were worth sharing, especially for all the Brad Stevens stans.

@JFeinsteinBooks
Today's anecdote: Someone asked yesterday about Brad Stevens succeeding Mike Krzyzewski. I think that would be great. Won't happen for two reasons: When I brought Brad up to K years ago he said, "He's a great coach. But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..

...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

...but one place that had been mentioned where he wouldn't go was Duke. I asked why. "Because I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.

flyingdutchdevil
04-14-2020, 10:41 AM
First off, I browsed back through 20 pages of threads to find a discussion on this topic (I am sure there are myriad others buried in threads with different titles) and, upon finding one, found it to be closed because, after 4 pages, it had devolved into name calling and the moderator felt it was a tired topic. So, I am not sure that's a great set-up for this but I found these fresh tweets from John Feinstein and thought they were worth sharing, especially for all the Brad Stevens stans.

@JFeinsteinBooks
Today's anecdote: Someone asked yesterday about Brad Stevens succeeding Mike Krzyzewski. I think that would be great. Won't happen for two reasons: When I brought Brad up to K years ago he said, "He's a great coach. But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..

...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

...but one place that had been mentioned where he wouldn't go was Duke. I asked why. "Because I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.

Awesome.

But I also think there is a clear third reason. No successful NBA coach takes a step down to coach college basketball unless he is fired. The NBA is, rightly so, the upper echelon of basketball. It's like Jamie Dimon leaving JPMorgan to be the CEO at Credit Suisse; ain't happening unless Jamie gets fired, and he's not getting fired unless he does something really naughty. And then would Credit Suisse really want him?

Brad is staying in the NBA. Hell, if he's fired by the Celtics, another team will clearly take him.

Troublemaker
04-14-2020, 10:43 AM
First off, I browsed back through 20 pages of threads to find a discussion on this topic (I am sure there are myriad others buried in threads with different titles) and, upon finding one, found it to be closed because, after 4 pages, it had devolved into name calling and the moderator felt it was a tired topic. So, I am not sure that's a great set-up for this but I found these fresh tweets from John Feinstein and thought they were worth sharing, especially for all the Brad Stevens stans.

@JFeinsteinBooks
Today's anecdote: Someone asked yesterday about Brad Stevens succeeding Mike Krzyzewski. I think that would be great. Won't happen for two reasons: When I brought Brad up to K years ago he said, "He's a great coach. But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..

...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

...but one place that had been mentioned where he wouldn't go was Duke. I asked why. "Because I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.

Thanks for posting this, BillyDat. Long-time readers will know that I have long thought that Duke fans overestimate our chances of landing Brad Stevens.

To be clear, I would *love* for Brad to coach at Duke. But it's just not realistic.

sagegrouse
04-14-2020, 10:50 AM
Awesome.

But I also think there is a clear third reason. No successful NBA coach takes a step down to coach college basketball unless he is fired. The NBA is, rightly so, the upper echelon of basketball. It's like Jamie Dimon leaving JPMorgan to be the CEO at Credit Suisse; ain't happening unless Jamie gets fired, and he's not getting fired unless he does something really naughty. And then would Credit Suisse really want him?

Brad is staying in the NBA. Hell, if he's fired by the Celtics, another team will clearly take him.

The argument for college over the NBA is that the true kings of college hoops make a ton of money, have long-term security and, as a practical matter, don't have a real boss. Yeah, I know -- the AD, the school president. But for an established college coach it is much less binding than the GM, team president and owner -- and, by the way, ownership may change.

Trouble is, this is not an argument FOR a high-profile NBA coach to return to the college ranks. It's an argument AGAINST a fully established college coach at a top program going to the NBA. The NBA guy returning to college still faces uncertainty, even at Duke and Kentucky, in building a premier reputation.

BD80
04-14-2020, 11:15 AM


@JFeinsteinBooks
Today's anecdote: ... When I brought Brad up to K years ago he said, "He's a great coach. But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..

...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." ...


And THAT is why he is the G.O.A.T.!






@JFeinsteinBooks …

Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. "... I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.


Here's to never forgetting! :cool:

DavidBenAkiva
04-14-2020, 11:24 AM
...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

...but one place that had been mentioned where he wouldn't go was Duke. I asked why. "Because I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.

I really like Brad Stevens He's one of my favorite coaches at any level. This made me like him even more. That being said, no way. Duke and Coach K have invested in building the program from within for decades. They are not going outside of the Brotherhood for the foreseeable future. We might not ever see a non-Duke alum as head coach in our lifetimes.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 11:36 AM
But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..


Not sure anyone else agrees yet, but I continue my long-term wager on Wojo. Think my odds have decreased since Scheyer impressively entered the picture.

rsvman
04-14-2020, 11:55 AM
Not sure anyone else agrees yet, but I continue my long-term wager on Wojo. Think my odds have decreased since Scheyer impressively entered the picture.

I think Scheyer will ultimately end up being a fantastic head coach somewhere. I sure hope it's not someplace besides Duke.

jimsumner
04-14-2020, 12:03 PM
I'm pretty sure the 2010 banner reference was a joke.

weezie
04-14-2020, 12:19 PM
...( K ) said, "I created the f--- culture."

And that there is yet another reason why I love K. He goes right to the point and then he pounds the point into the woodblock.

budwom
04-14-2020, 12:24 PM
I really like Brad Stevens He's one of my favorite coaches at any level. This made me like him even more. That being said, no way. Duke and Coach K have invested in building the program from within for decades. They are not going outside of the Brotherhood for the foreseeable future. We might not ever see a non-Duke alum as head coach in our lifetimes.

As for never seeing a non Duke alum as head coach, I think that completely depends upon the success of K's successor.

p.s. I also really like Stevens...and while the NBA is surely the pinnacle of hoops, there's something to be said for the college game if you like seeing more of your family...there are definitely some tradeoffs.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 12:32 PM
I'm pretty sure the 2010 banner reference was a joke.

Agreed. I’m pretty sure the “it needs to be someone who understands the culture” was not a joke.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 12:36 PM
I think Scheyer will ultimately end up being a fantastic head coach somewhere. I sure hope it's not someplace besides Duke.

IIRC, it needs to be to succeed K.

rsvman
04-14-2020, 01:00 PM
IIRC, it needs to be to succeed K.

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't understand what this means.

Are you saying that Scheyer would have to coach somewhere else in order to be considered as a potential head coach for Duke? If that's not what it means, perhaps you could clarify it for those of us perhaps not smart enough to understand what you meant? Thanks.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 01:15 PM
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't understand what this means.

Are you saying that Scheyer would have to coach somewhere else in order to be considered as a potential head coach for Duke?

Yes, IIRC, K has said his successor would need head coaching experience.

J4Kop99
04-14-2020, 01:43 PM
I would love Quin Snyder. Not all that unrealistic IMHO. Similar arguments to those given for Stevens but Stevens makes absolutely no sense other than he's young and clearly a phenomenal coach. No other ties to Duke for Stevens. Other than 2010.

Snyder is already a highly respected NBA coach but depending on where he is coaching in the NBA (assuming he still is) by the time K retires (hopefully 10 years and 10 championships from now) Snyder to Duke would make sense.

Let's just say, god forbid, K retires within the next couple years - would it really be that out-of-the-question for Snyder to leave the Utah Jazz for Duke?


--The main argument against any big name coming in directly after K leaves is the obvious "gigantic shoes to fill" issue.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 01:57 PM
I would love Quin Snyder. Not all that unrealistic IMHO. Similar arguments to those given for Stevens but Stevens makes absolutely no sense other than he's young and clearly a phenomenal coach. No other ties to Duke for Stevens. Other than 2010.

Snyder is already a highly respected NBA coach but depending on where he is coaching in the NBA (assuming he still is) by the time K retires (hopefully 10 years and 10 championships from now) Snyder to Duke would make sense.

Let's just say, god forbid, K retires within the next couple years - would it really be that out-of-the-question for Snyder to leave the Utah Jazz for Duke?


--The main argument against any big name coming in directly after K leaves is the obvious "gigantic shoes to fill" issue.

I suspect Quin has learned his lesson about succeeding a college hoops icon.

Kfanarmy
04-14-2020, 01:58 PM
...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

I believe coaching the pros in the Olympics has impacted coach K and ultimately, the Duke BB culture, more than anything he had "created." One could probably argue that the Duke University atmospherics changed coach K as much as he has changed the Duke BB "culture."

flyingdutchdevil
04-14-2020, 02:02 PM
I would love Quin Snyder. Not all that unrealistic IMHO. Similar arguments to those given for Stevens but Stevens makes absolutely no sense other than he's young and clearly a phenomenal coach. No other ties to Duke for Stevens. Other than 2010.

Snyder is already a highly respected NBA coach but depending on where he is coaching in the NBA (assuming he still is) by the time K retires (hopefully 10 years and 10 championships from now) Snyder to Duke would make sense.

Let's just say, god forbid, K retires within the next couple years - would it really be that out-of-the-question for Snyder to leave the Utah Jazz for Duke?


--The main argument against any big name coming in directly after K leaves is the obvious "gigantic shoes to fill" issue.

Yes. Here's a question - has an NBA coach ever left an NBA contract (ie he didn't get fired) to join a college program?

The only similar position I can think of is Saban and Harbaugh leaving the NFL to join their respective college teams, but a) that's football, b) Saban had a 6-10 record the year he left and never made it to the NFL playoffs, and c) Harbaugh had amazing success in the NFL before a very mediocre 8-8 record that led him to leave for college.

I know a lot of us are more hardcore college fans than NBA fans, but the NBA is soooooooooo much more prestigious for players and coaches. If you are having success in the NBA, what's the draw for college?

gep
04-14-2020, 02:04 PM
Yes, IIRC, K has said his successor would need head coaching experience.

Maybe by the time Coach K retires, he has a change of heart, especially if he grooms Scheyer for the job. I really like Scheyer... he seems like a good candidate in a few years... even without being a head coach somewhere else first. And he definitely knows the culture.

MartyClark
04-14-2020, 02:19 PM
Yes. Here's a question - has an NBA coach ever left an NBA contract (ie he didn't get fired) to join a college program?

The only similar position I can think of is Saban and Harbaugh leaving the NFL to join their respective college teams, but a) that's football, b) Saban had a 6-10 record the year he left and never made it to the NFL playoffs, and c) Harbaugh had amazing success in the NFL before a very mediocre 8-8 record that led him to leave for college.

I know a lot of us are more hardcore college fans than NBA fans, but the NBA is soooooooooo much more prestigious for players and coaches. If you are having success in the NBA, what's the draw for college?

Good post. I can't answer your first question, nobody comes to mind.

Color me old fashioned, but there are some great college coaches who prefer to work with young men, enjoy helping them mature, and prefer a college town/campus atmosphere to the NBA.

I think the major downside to college jobs is the constant pressure to recruit which, I think, has gotten even more difficult with the advent of one and done guys.

Your last question is also a good one and I think a coach who is having success in the NBA, and that success can be temporal and fleeting, would probably not be attracted back to NCAA regulations, school oversight, constant recruiting and the demands of keeping kids in classes.

I can't think of any successful NBA coach who has returned to college - so you are probably right.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 02:22 PM
Maybe by the time Coach K retires, he has a change of heart, especially if he grooms Scheyer for the job. I really like Scheyer... he seems like a good candidate in a few years... even without being a head coach somewhere else first. And he definitely knows the culture.

I suspect Scheyer will be a HC within the next two years. That’s why I’m less certain about Wojo.

Nevertheless, I’m sticking with my decade plus Wojo prediction. IIRC, the first time I mentioned it on DBR was right after Dawkins landed at Stanford. Dawkins was definitely the popular DBR choice in 2008.

nocilla
04-14-2020, 02:49 PM
Yes. Here's a question - has an NBA coach ever left an NBA contract (ie he didn't get fired) to join a college program?


Potentially John Beilein.

CrazyNotCrazie
04-14-2020, 03:00 PM
Yes. Here's a question - has an NBA coach ever left an NBA contract (ie he didn't get fired) to join a college program?

The only similar position I can think of is Saban and Harbaugh leaving the NFL to join their respective college teams, but a) that's football, b) Saban had a 6-10 record the year he left and never made it to the NFL playoffs, and c) Harbaugh had amazing success in the NFL before a very mediocre 8-8 record that led him to leave for college.

I know a lot of us are more hardcore college fans than NBA fans, but the NBA is soooooooooo much more prestigious for players and coaches. If you are having success in the NBA, what's the draw for college?

I think that Pitino voluntarily left the Knicks for Kentucky - I'm pretty sure he wasn't fired. And this was despite the fact that at the time, Kentucky was pretty far down. I'm not sure if he was fired by the Celtics but in that case I don't think they were at all sad to see him go as it wasn't going very well.

Neals384
04-14-2020, 03:52 PM
First off, I browsed back through 20 pages of threads to find a discussion on this topic (I am sure there are myriad others buried in threads with different titles) and, upon finding one, found it to be closed because, after 4 pages, it had devolved into name calling and the moderator felt it was a tired topic. So, I am not sure that's a great set-up for this but I found these fresh tweets from John Feinstein and thought they were worth sharing, especially for all the Brad Stevens stans.

@JFeinsteinBooks
Today's anecdote: Someone asked yesterday about Brad Stevens succeeding Mike Krzyzewski. I think that would be great. Won't happen for two reasons: When I brought Brad up to K years ago he said, "He's a great coach. But it needs to be someone who understands the culture..

...I said, 'did you understand the culture when you got here?" He said, "I created the f--- culture." Couldn't argue w/that. Last summer, as part of 'Back Roads,' research I spoke to Brad. Asked if he'd ever consider going back to college coaching. He said, he might...

...but one place that had been mentioned where he wouldn't go was Duke. I asked why. "Because I'd insist they take down that 2010 banner and I don't think they'd be willing to do that. I couldn't possibly look at it every day." I understand.

Please forgive my ignorance, but WTH is JFeinsteinBooks?

Billy Dat
04-14-2020, 04:05 PM
Please forgive my ignorance, but WTH is JFeinsteinBooks?

It's author-journalist-Duke alum John Feinstein's twitter handle. I guess he set it up primarily to promote his books but, like many a famous person who has hung a shingle on that platform, he uses it equally to promote, entertain, and do battle with his audience.

BD80
04-14-2020, 04:12 PM
Yes. Here's a question - has an NBA coach ever left an NBA contract (ie he didn't get fired) to join a college program?

...

Billy Donovan, 2007, Orlando Magic (back) to UF?

GoDuke2015
04-14-2020, 04:32 PM
Awesome.

But I also think there is a clear third reason. No successful NBA coach takes a step down to coach college basketball unless he is fired. The NBA is, rightly so, the upper echelon of basketball. It's like Jamie Dimon leaving JPMorgan to be the CEO at Credit Suisse; ain't happening unless Jamie gets fired, and he's not getting fired unless he does something really naughty. And then would Credit Suisse really want him?

Brad is staying in the NBA. Hell, if he's fired by the Celtics, another team will clearly take him.


Not quite sure I buy the bank CEO analogy. the best college coaches make more money than all but a few NBA coaches. Also, the great college coaches have far more day-to-day power over their teams/programs than NBA coaches. Jamie Dimon should not have any more power/control over JPMorgan than the CEO of another bank.

Go Duke!

moonpie23
04-14-2020, 04:53 PM
watch every coaching huddle in the 2010 and 2015 nattys......who do you see in a "commanding" role, other than K....

2010 - Chris Collins

2015 - Jon Scheyer


you have to earn that from the guy that invented the F'ing culture...



depending on how marquette's star rises, it could be wojo....

Troublemaker
04-14-2020, 05:05 PM
Yes, IIRC, K has said his successor would need head coaching experience.

Perhaps, but (1) opinions can change about that and (2) realistically, Coach K's assistants have been mediocre as head coaches and therefore arguably harmed their candidacies in the process. Scheyer might actually benefit by not having had the head coaching experience.

wsb3
04-14-2020, 05:15 PM
There was a time I would have said no to anyone not having HC experience.But Scheyer. There just seems to be something really special about him.

Of course I am pretty sure there are posts out there with my name on them where I was convinced Collins would be the successor.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 05:56 PM
Perhaps, but (1) opinions can change about that and (2) realistically, Coach K's assistants have been mediocre as head coaches and therefore arguably harmed their candidacies in the process. Scheyer might actually benefit by not having had the head coaching experience.

Many years ago, I thought the same about Wojo.

DukeFanNotNBAFan
04-14-2020, 06:08 PM
I guess I’m not understanding the impact this “culture” has in the one and done era. The team has a cadre of new players every year. A completely different starting lineup every year.

As much as I love K, I don’t think he should have a say on picking the next coach. It should be what’s best for the program above all else.

I haven’t seen a former K player have success running a program yet. So no, I’m not ready for the school to hand over the keys to any of them.

Brad Stevens seems ideal. If he wants the job when it becomes available, he should be a favorite over any K assistant. Same with someone like Chris Beard. Get the right guy, not the Duke guy.

Steven43
04-14-2020, 06:14 PM
I really like Brad Stevens He's one of my favorite coaches at any level. This made me like him even more. That being said, no way. Duke and Coach K have invested in building the program from within for decades. They are not going outside of the Brotherhood for the foreseeable future. We might not ever see a non-Duke alum as head coach in our lifetimes.
Yes, Brad Stevens would be my choice, at least from an outsider’s limited perspective. Quin Snyder would be my next choice. I think he would be a dynamite head coach at Duke.

The thing I don’t get is why we are so sure Coach K is going to have the ultimate say in the matter. Kevin White didn’t hire him. Vincent Price didn’t hire him. Who else currently at Duke was there when Coach K was hired, which was almost 40 years ago? And which highly-regarded coach (I’m assuming Duke will want to hire a highly-regarded coach) will want to come to Duke if they think Coach K is still pulling the strings from the shadows while retired? I wouldn’t want to step into a situation like that, would you?

MChambers
04-14-2020, 06:14 PM
I guess I’m not understanding the impact this “culture” has in the one and done era. The team has a cadre of new players every year. A completely different starting lineup every year.

As much as I love K, I don’t think he should have a say on picking the next coach. It should be what’s best for the program above all else.

I haven’t seen a former K player have success running a program yet. So no, I’m not ready for the school to hand over the keys to any of them.

Brad Stevens seems ideal. If he wants the job when it becomes available, he should be a favorite over any K assistant. Same with someone like Chris Beard. Get the right guy, not the Duke guy.

I'd think the AD will listen to K and make his or her own decision. But it would be tough not to pick an alum. But I like Beard and Stevens a lot, if either is interested.

Reddevil
04-14-2020, 06:19 PM
Not sure anyone else agrees yet, but I continue my long-term wager on Wojo. Think my odds have decreased since Scheyer impressively entered the picture.

I have the same hope for Bobby Hurley. Bobby coming home would be AMAZING!

uh_no
04-14-2020, 06:22 PM
there are dangers in keeping the coaching succession in the family. UNC had 8 years of futility to show for adhering to that. Kevin ollie at connecticut is another example.

I have trouble believing that a guy like brad stevens would either want to change, or not be able to work within the culture K created for this program. Duke is what everyone aspires to be. You think a guy like that is going to come in and be all like "forget that!" I'm sure some coaches would....the kind that we likely wouldn't want to hire in the first place. Wanting to run a program with the same culture as K has is a requirement for the job, because it's the right way to run a program, not because K did it.

Another consideration is that when a new HC comes in, there's a good chance he's picking his assistants. So there's a good chance Jon and Nolan and the others have to find work elsewhere anyway, and the coaching staff will not be so in-house as K's has generally been, so the feeling will change somewhat anyway as there will be new blood on the bench either way.

I'm generally not a fan of coaches naming their successors, but I think K's evaluation of any potential candidate would be very important. That said, when you give up the reigns, you give up the reigns. It would be a shame to not explore a coaching talent simply because they were not a player at duke. Does K also get a say how long that person can linger if they underperform? How long can he dictate how the department runs the program? I don't pretend that coach is malicious or anything, just that there are reasons that, say, a corporate board generally appoints a new CEO, and not an outgoing CEO.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 06:29 PM
I have the same hope for Bobby Hurley. Bobby coming home would be AMAZING!

I definitely think that’s possible and believe Bobby will be successful as a HC. I’d love to see him next (in 10-12 years).

Steven43
04-14-2020, 06:31 PM
I have the same hope for Bobby Hurley. Bobby coming home would be AMAZING!
Can’t disagree with this, if Stevens and Snyder won’t take the job. Love Bobby and his burning will to win.

DukeFanNotNBAFan
04-14-2020, 06:37 PM
I definitely think that’s possible and believe Bobby will be successful as a HC. I’d love to see him next (in 10-12 years).

I don’t understand why. His teams have talent, but most often are a train wreck on the court. Very little team basketball being played. If we have to go former Duke person I’d go with Brey.

camion
04-14-2020, 06:41 PM
There's a pretty good coach at Pitt who has strong Duke ties. Is there anything that disqualifies him?

Bay Area Duke Fan
04-14-2020, 06:45 PM
Can’t disagree with this, if Stevens and Snyder won’t take the job. Love Bobby and his burning will to win.

I used to think that Bobby would be the best choice. But he'll be in his mid-50s when K is likely to retire. That would give him only 10-15 years as Duke HC. Is that enough time? On the other hand, Scheyer would be in his mid-late 30s when K moves on, giving him 30 years as HC. I think K was 33 when he came to Duke. Capel will be about 50 when K retires.

Steven43
04-14-2020, 06:50 PM
I used to think that Bobby would be the best choice. But he'll be in his mid-50s when K is likely to retire. That would give him only 10-15 years as Duke HC. Is that enough time? On the other hand, Scheyer would be in his mid-late 30s when K moves on, giving him 30 years as HC. I think K was 33 when he came to Duke.
I really like Jon Scheyer. He was a damn good player, seems to be a good recruiter (from what I’ve heard), and certainly looks the part, for whatever that’s worth.

I need to see more, though. I would prefer he be a head coach somewhere to show what he can do before Duke seriously considers him,

By the way, I hear you about Bobby. I would like the next Duke coach to be in his 30’s or 40’s.

Acymetric
04-14-2020, 06:55 PM
I used to think that Bobby would be the best choice. But he'll be in his mid-50s when K is likely to retire. That would give him only 10-15 years as Duke HC. Is that enough time? On the other hand, Scheyer would be in his mid-late 30s when K moves on, giving him 30 years as HC. I think K was 33 when he came to Duke. Capel will be about 50 when K retires.


I really like Jon Scheyer. He was a damn good player, seems to be a good recruiter (from what I’ve heard), and certainly looks the part, for whatever that’s worth.

I need to see more, though. I would prefer he be a head coach somewhere to show what he can do before Duke seriously considers him,

By the way, I hear you about Bobby. I would like the next Duke coach to be in his 30’s or 40’s.

I think a 15 year coaching stint is fine. 30+ year coaching stints are rare, I would not expect our next coach to to be there that long. Highly unlikely to wind up with two of those back-to-back.

Steven43
04-14-2020, 07:17 PM
I think a 15 year coaching stint is fine. 30+ year coaching stints are rare, I would not expect our next coach to to be there that long. Highly unlikely to wind up with two of those back-to-back.

I was just saying a coach in his 30’s or 40’s would be preferable. But if a great coach in his 50’s (like Snyder) were ready and willing, that’s perfectly fine with me.

sagegrouse
04-14-2020, 07:24 PM
Not quite sure I buy the bank CEO analogy. the best college coaches make more money than all but a few NBA coaches. Also, the great college coaches have far more day-to-day power over their teams/programs than NBA coaches. Jamie Dimon should not have any more power/control over JPMorgan than the CEO of another bank.

Go Duke!

Yes, but the college coaches earned it the hard way -- over many years. It's the reason the best college coaches don't go to the NBA. But coming from the NBA (or anywhere else) to a top basketball program does NOT guarantee that you will be in the pantheon of the gods of the college game.

SouthernDukie
04-14-2020, 07:45 PM
Why is everyone avoiding the obvious answer? A clone of Coach K, circa 1986 age range.

wsb3
04-14-2020, 07:47 PM
If we have to go former Duke person I’d go with Brey.

Mike Brey is 61. I don't see that happening.

1991 duke law
04-14-2020, 07:47 PM
I really like Jon Scheyer. He was a damn good player, seems to be a good recruiter (from what I’ve heard), and certainly looks the part, for whatever that’s worth.

I need to see more, though. I would prefer he be a head coach somewhere to show what he can do before Duke seriously considers him,

By the way, I hear you about Bobby. I would like the next Duke coach to be in his 30’s or 40’s.

Hiring Jon as the head coach at Duke would be a mitzvah. I would support it with a mazel tov.

OldPhiKap
04-14-2020, 07:48 PM
I used to think that Bobby would be the best choice. But he'll be in his mid-50s when K is likely to retire. That would give him only 10-15 years as Duke HC. Is that enough time? On the other hand, Scheyer would be in his mid-late 30s when K moves on, giving him 30 years as HC. I think K was 33 when he came to Duke. Capel will be about 50 when K retires.

I don’t know who the best coach would be — but no candidate is as rooted in K’s legacy as Bobby Hurley.

Jeffrey
04-14-2020, 07:51 PM
I don’t understand why. His teams have talent, but most often are a train wreck on the court. Very little team basketball being played. If we have to go former Duke person I’d go with Brey.

In my mind, Bobby lost a decade and is akin to a HC in their late 30’s. In 10-12 years, I think he will be a very good HC. He knows how to recruit, really understands the game, and has incredible passion. Pick any industry and a leader’s passion usually has a high correlation with team success.

BD80
04-14-2020, 08:01 PM
Why is everyone avoiding the obvious answer? A clone of Coach K, circa 1986 age range.

Isn't that why his grandson is on the team?

DUKIE V(A)
04-14-2020, 09:03 PM
I thought it was going to be Collins, but I am a big Scheyer guy. Smart, youthful, tremendous demeanor, calm under pressure, fiery when necessary, quality teacher, and relates well with players. Class act.

P.S. I am hoping for 5 more years of Coach K.

CrazyNotCrazie
04-14-2020, 09:09 PM
I thought it was going to be Collins, but I am a big Scheyer guy. Smart, youthful, tremendous demeanor, calm under pressure, fiery when necessary, quality teacher, and relates well with players. Class act.

P.S. I am hoping for 5 more years of Coach K.

I don't disagree with you at all - I am a huge Scheyer fan - but why does it seem to be a consensus that of the assistants on the current staff, Scheyer would be hired over Nate?

Steven43
04-14-2020, 09:14 PM
I don't disagree with you at all - I am a huge Scheyer fan - but why does it seem to be a consensus that of the assistants on the current staff, Scheyer would be hired over Nate?

I think many of us are subconsciously equating the level of play while in college with coaching potential. That’s my best guess.

gep
04-14-2020, 10:07 PM
I thought it was going to be Collins, but I am a big Scheyer guy. Smart, youthful, tremendous demeanor, calm under pressure, fiery when necessary, quality teacher, and relates well with players. Class act.

P.S. I am hoping for 5 more years of Coach K.

I am also regularly listening to the Duke Basketball podcast with Scheyer and Schumate. Jon sure sounds like he will be a good candidate as a successor to Coach K... even without head coaching experience elsewhere. Also, do I recall correctly that Jon has done those halftime interviews for some games?

brevity
04-14-2020, 11:40 PM
I don't disagree with you at all - I am a huge Scheyer fan - but why does it seem to be a consensus that of the assistants on the current staff, Scheyer would be hired over Nate?

Because basketball fans -- and Duke fans in particular -- romanticize guards as the coaches on the floor. Scheyer, Wojo, Collins, Capel, Hurley, Amaker. Coach K was a point guard. (Bobby Knight was a forward, but never mind that.)

It's similar thinking to the ESPN-generated belief that the New England Patriots were successful because of Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and nobody else.

Nate James should absolutely be considered for a head coaching job, at Duke or elsewhere. Maybe he won't have to wait as long as Patrick Ewing did.

JayZee
04-15-2020, 12:05 AM
I am also regularly listening to the Duke Basketball podcast with Scheyer and Schumate. Jon sure sounds like he will be a good candidate as a successor to Coach K... even without head coaching experience elsewhere. Also, do I recall correctly that Jon has done those halftime interviews for some games?

I agree that Scheyer just seems to have something extra special. Wojo is a little too much like a K clone. I think we need someone who both understands the culture and has the confidence to take it their own direction. Until Jon, I had always thought it would have been Tommy or JD. still could be, if Duke and K wanted to do a UNC type thing where they give the HC job to someone who they know might only be there for 5-10. Still, if I had to choose right now, I’d just go with Jon.

Wander
04-15-2020, 12:08 AM
I don’t understand why. His teams have talent, but most often are a train wreck on the court. Very little team basketball being played. If we have to go former Duke person I’d go with Brey.

Brey's teams are consistently awful on defense. If we're going to stick with a Duke guy, it makes more sense to take a risk on an unknown like Scheyer than go with someone you are already pretty certain isn't elite.

Jeffrey
04-15-2020, 12:44 AM
Because basketball fans -- and Duke fans in particular -- romanticize guards as the coaches on the floor. Scheyer, Wojo, Collins, Capel, Hurley, Amaker. Coach K was a point guard. (Bobby Knight was a forward, but never mind that.)

It's similar thinking to the ESPN-generated belief that the New England Patriots were successful because of Bill Belichick, Tom Brady, and nobody else.

Nate James should absolutely be considered for a head coaching job, at Duke or elsewhere. Maybe he won't have to wait as long as Patrick Ewing did.

Or, maybe, because most of the GOAT college basketball coaches played the guard position. Mere coincidence?

Shakyjake
04-15-2020, 10:58 AM
Or, maybe, because most of the GOAT college basketball coaches played the guard position. Mere coincidence?
Maybe Jay Bilas.....just saying

53n206
04-15-2020, 11:23 AM
Perhaps, but (1) opinions can change about that and (2) realistically, Coach K's assistants have been mediocre as head coaches and therefore arguably harmed their candidacies in the process. Scheyer might actually benefit by not having had the head coaching experience.

How successful was Coach K at Army?

Pghdukie
04-15-2020, 11:26 AM
What does Scheyer do when a top college HC job opens up and he is approached ? Ala Capel. It's just a matter of time. Does he stay or go ?

Jeffrey
04-15-2020, 11:33 AM
Maybe Jay Bilas....just saying

Here's hoping Bilas is UNC's next HC. He seems to like their program.

LasVegas
04-15-2020, 11:50 AM
It’s simple for me. You get the best coach you can to replace K and currently that isn’t a previous player.

wsb3
04-15-2020, 11:55 AM
It’s simple for me. You get the best coach you can to replace K and currently that isn’t a previous player.

I don't disagree with you at all but I will be shocked if it is not someone with Duke ties. I am not saying that K will have the final say so but I do think his influence will mean a former Duke player.

How about a poll with a list of Duke people we think are a possibility and then one box that simply states outside the Duke family? Or, are we not yet that bored without sports.

I have no clue how to do it.

jimsumner
04-15-2020, 12:05 PM
How successful was Coach K at Army?

As a player or as a coach? As a coach he was 73-59 at a school with some fairly daunting obstacles to basketball success.

BD80
04-15-2020, 12:28 PM
As a player or as a coach? As a coach he was 73-59 at a school with some fairly daunting obstacles to basketball success.

He scoffed a the notion that Duke had rigorous admission standards. Sure, a few (non-basketball) Dukies have had relatives who were congressmen or vice-president and could have been nominated for West Point, but I think it fair to say coming to Duke opened up Coach K's recruiting pool in a big way.

Troublemaker
04-15-2020, 12:43 PM
How successful was Coach K at Army?

Very. Just take a look at Army Basketball in the years before K and after K (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Army_Black_Knights_men%27s_basketball_seas ons).

https://i.imgur.com/VwaJhYp.png


Those first two seasons where Coach K took a team that went 3-22 the previous season and proceeded to go 11-14 and 20-8 in successive seasons are particularly impressive. The greats usually make an immediate impact.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
04-15-2020, 06:32 PM
Very. Just take a look at Army Basketball in the years before K and after K (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Army_Black_Knights_men%27s_basketball_seas ons).

https://i.imgur.com/VwaJhYp.png


Those first two seasons where Coach K took a team that went 3-22 the previous season and proceeded to go 11-14 and 20-8 in successive seasons are particularly impressive. The greats usually make an immediate impact.

Hiring out of a 9-17 season takes, um, onions.

sagegrouse
04-15-2020, 06:57 PM
Hiring out of a 9-17 season takes, um, onions.

The story is that Tom Butters had already talked to Bobby Knight about potential candidates for the Duke basketball head coaching position. Knight didn't mention Krzyzewski. As Butters continued his investigations, K's name came up a couple of times. Butters called Knight back and asked about K. "Oh, he's terrific. He has all my good qualities and none of my bad qualities." Butters asked why K wasn't mentioned on the first call. "I didn't think his win-loss record would be good enough for you."

And you're right -- hiring Coach K in 1981 took onions. And giving him a new contract when he hadn't proven anything also took some guts. Of course, K had just recruited Dawkins, Alarie, David Henderson, Bilas and some other players.

Dukehky
04-17-2020, 12:09 AM
It's Capel. Pitt was the absolute dregs and they are improving, as long as they don't totally plateau or crater before K retires, it's Capel. What is so hard for people to grasp about this?


I also think it should be Capel. So... yay!

Dukehky
04-17-2020, 12:12 AM
I don't disagree with you at all - I am a huge Scheyer fan - but why does it seem to be a consensus that of the assistants on the current staff, Scheyer would be hired over Nate?

I think mostly it's because Scheyer has been the lead recruiter for a bunch of really good players even after Cape left. I don't know who Nate has been the lead guy on.

We have no idea how these guys coach. Scheyer is also more active on social media and does the Duke Basketball podcast so he's more visible.

Idk. I can promise you one thing though, Duke will no hire someone without head coaching experience. So unless Jon bounces now, no chance.

WWBD
04-17-2020, 01:33 AM
This thread has a very surprising lack of Johnny Dawkins.

Steven43
04-17-2020, 02:12 AM
This thread has a very surprising lack of Johnny Dawkins.

You know, I was thinking the same thing earlier today. I think it’s because Johnny will be 60-ish when K retires. Probably not the age most Duke fans envision their next coach being.

CameronBlue
04-17-2020, 04:18 AM
It's Capel. Pitt was the absolute dregs and they are improving, as long as they don't totally plateau or crater before K retires, it's Capel. What is so hard for people to grasp about this?


I also think it should be Capel. So... yay!

I also think it could be Capel and would support that choice. But Jason is on his staff and while I don’t think Duke fans would mind it Jason came with his brother Jason may not be willing to offend the whole of Hole country. You see how Bilas gets treated around here, imagine Jason celebrating a Duke W in the Mucus Dome. They would crucify him on IC and make his life miserable in public.

lotusland
04-17-2020, 07:06 AM
I also think it could be Capel and would support that choice. But Jason is on his staff and while I don’t think Duke fans would mind it Jason came with his brother Jason may not be willing to offend the whole of Hole country. You see how Bilas gets treated around here, imagine Jason celebrating a Duke W in the Mucus Dome. They would crucify him on IC and make his life miserable in public.

I doubt Jason Capel has his heart set on following Jeff around as his assistant for the rest of his career. Assuming Duke hired Jeff due to his success at Pitt, Jason might be the next HC at Pitt.

The “Brotherhood” denotes and familial culture. One to Five years at Duke gets you a seat at the Thanksgiving table for life. I think K’s successor has to be from the brotherhood.

Also K will step away for a couple years to be the NCAA’s first Commish, allowing his successor to settle in while he creates the new framework for NCAA as the governing body of college hoops. You heard it here first!

arnie
04-17-2020, 07:20 AM
Here's hoping Bilas is UNC's next HC. He seems to like their program.

Actually, Bilas is so smart he could be HC at Duke and UNCheat at the same time. Just ask him.

He’d need to get Swofford scheduling help and during head to head competition just switch benches at halftime. This joint hire would generate a Duke/UNCheat national final every year.

lotusland
04-17-2020, 07:52 AM
Actually, Bilas is so smart he could be HC at Duke and UNCheat at the same time. Just ask him.

He’d need to get Swofford scheduling help and during head to head competition just switch benches at halftime. This joint hire would generate a Duke/UNCheat national final every year.

He could go 90-feet with Jay Bilas at halftime too.

TruBlu
04-17-2020, 07:55 AM
He could go 90-feet with Jay Bilas at halftime too.

Off of an 80 feet pier, hopefully.

devildeac
04-17-2020, 08:00 AM
Actually, Bilas is so smart he could be HC at Duke and UNCheat at the same time. Just ask him.

He’d need to get Swofford scheduling help and during head to head competition just switch benches at halftime. This joint hire would generate a Duke/UNCheat national final every year.

If he complained/cursed enough to the refs during a game in this dual-coaching capacity, could he be ejected from both benches? :rolleyes::o

cspan37421
04-17-2020, 08:10 AM
Actually, Bilas is so smart he could be HC at Duke and UNCheat at the same time. Just ask him.

He’d need to get Swofford scheduling help and during head to head competition just switch benches at halftime. This joint hire would generate a Duke/UNCheat national final every year.

Careful now ... someone from the Robertson Scholars program may suggest it.

Tooold
04-17-2020, 12:10 PM
Jon Scheyer recently spoke to a group with which I’m involved. As you might expect (or know) he is a very engaging and articulate young man (I say “young” because I have a son his age). When asked about where he saw himself in 5 years (or something similar to that), he replied “if you are trying to get me to say I want my boss’ job, I’m not going to say that”.

Good answer...,

Jeffrey
04-17-2020, 01:30 PM
When asked about where he saw himself in 5 years (or something similar to that), he replied “if you are trying to get me to say I want my boss’ job, I’m not going to say that”.

Good answer...,

Yep, there’s no benefit saying it. I’ve said it repeatedly, but my wife refuses to give up the position!