Welcome to Duke, Cason Pierce!

[DavidBenAkiva]

Via twitter (https://twitter.com/cason_pierce14/status/1246135642720878594), Class of 2020 Greensboro Day School 6'7" Guard Cason Pierce announced that he will be a preferred walk on at Duke beginning this fall. Cason Pierce is right up there with Kennan Worthington for "strong Duke student name." I'm looking forward to seeing the young man on the squad.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUspwprXsAAiCJF?format=jpg&name=large

[moonpie23]

welcome to the party, pal !!!!!!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Welcome to the brotherhood! And the casons go rolling along!

[BD80]

Welcome to the brotherhood! And the casons go rolling along!

We should expect Mr. Pierce to be a penetrator?

[scottdude8]

So THIS must be the news that we've all been waiting on after the strange Tape decommitment yesterday (I kid, I kid). Regardless, welcome Cason!

[UrinalCake]

We should expect Mr. Pierce to be a penetrator?

I think you're missing the point.

[Phredd3]

We should expect Mr. Pierce to be a penetrator?


I think you're missing the point.

You folks do have a sharp wit.

[Indoor66]

He has point type skills.

[sagegrouse]

He has point type skills.

Perhaps a shooter -- "Hawkeye."

[UrinalCake]

Honest question here - how many walkons can a team have? Right now I count K’s grandkid, Keenan Worthington, Buckmire, and now Pierce.

[arnie]

Honest question here - how many walkons can a team have? Right now I count K’s grandkid, Keenan Worthington, Buckmire, and now Pierce.

Must be unlimited (or up to 100) cause I’ve seen that many on the Cheat bench.

[scottdude8]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure there isn’t much of a limit. The public schools often have a ton. I know Michigan typically has at least 3 or 4...

[sagegrouse]

Must be unlimited (or up to 100) cause I’ve seen that many on the Cheat bench.

Tommy Amaker, in his first year or two at Harvard, got some bad press when he reduced the varsity squad from 19 to 14, I believe, sending the others to the JV squad. Ergo, we have a data point on 19.

The rest of the story is that the father of one of those cut went bonkers, and it got coverage in the NY Times among other places -- as if Tommy was hurting the pro basketball prospects of a player who wasn't in the top 14 at an Ivy League program.

[lotusland]

What is the key difference with a “preferred walk on”? Wasn’t JRob a “recruited walk on”? Seems like we have several walk-ons who could play at lower level schools.

[sagegrouse]

What is the key difference with a “preferred walk on”? Wasn’t JRob a “recruited walk on”? Seems like we have several walk-ons who could play at lower level schools.

This terminology and these distinctions are mostly jive. There are no NCAA definitions at play. Actually, the real distinction is how Duke admissions treats the application.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Tommy Amaker, in his first year or two at Harvard, got some bad press when he reduced the varsity squad from 19 to 14, I believe, sending the others to the JV squad. Ergo, we have a data point on 19.

The rest of the story is that the father of one of those cut went bonkers, and it got coverage in the NY Times among other places -- as if Tommy was hurting the pro basketball prospects of a player who wasn't in the top 14 at an Ivy League program.

Reminds me of when Rudy Guiliani’s son sued Duke for kicking him off the golf team.

[BD80]

Honest question here - how many walkons can a team have? Right now I count K’s grandkid, Keenan Worthington, Buckmire, and now Pierce.

It depends on whether the bench area has one of them "virus shooters." If so, I think you can have a thousand or so.

[sagegrouse]

Reminds me of when Rudy Guiliani’s son sued Duke for kicking him off the golf team.

Yes, after he wasn't good enough to make the traveling squad -- Mean ol' Duke was hurting his PGA prospects!

[OldPhiKap]

We should expect Mr. Pierce to be a penetrator?


I think you're missing the point.

Damn, foiled again.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Must be unlimited (or up to 100) cause I’ve seen that many on the Cheat bench.

Somebody had to stay out as a human sacrifice when Ole Roy abandoned ship early before a court-storming (I believe at FSU?) a few years ago!

[CDu]

What is the key difference with a “preferred walk on”? Wasn’t JRob a “recruited walk on”? Seems like we have several walk-ons who could play at lower level schools.

A “recruited walk-on” is an oxymoron. Walk-ons are, by definition, not recruited. A preferred walk-on is someone guaranteed a spot on the team, while a walk-on has to make the team (like a manager who gets to the team, or in UNC’s case a JV player that makes the team.

Robinson was a preferred walk-on. He was not recruited by Duke. He reached out and they said he could come as a preferred walk-on.

At Duke, the preferred walk-ons are the guys who have a chance each year of landing an extra scholarship if one happens to be available.

[sagegrouse]

A “recruited walk-on” is an oxymoron. Walk-ons are, by definition, not recruited. A preferred walk-on is someone guaranteed a spot on the team, while a walk-on has to make the team (like a manager who gets to the team, or in UNC’s case a JV player that makes the team.

Robinson was a preferred walk-on. He was not recruited by Duke. He reached out and they said he could come as a preferred walk-on.

At Duke, the preferred walk-ons are the guys who have a chance each year of landing an extra scholarship if one happens to be available.

CDu, I have been totally amazed at other posts where you are showing your chops on pandemics -- R0 and all that stuff. But I have a couple of points of potential disagreement here.

First, the issue is Duke Admissions preferences, which goes hand in hand with "a spot on the team." A "preferred walk-on" implies some really strong pull with Duke Admissions. All varsity sports get some preference in admissions . And hoops, in the words of Animal Farm is "more equal than others."

Second, I disagree with the statement, "Walk-ons are not recruited." Well, maybe they first expressed an interest, but they are certainly evaluated and approved by the coaching staff. For example, I don't believe that Justin Robinson decided to apply to Duke as his first choice and then contacted Duke basketball. It seems totally evident to me -- and, of course, I can't find the light switch in my own bedroom -- that there were discussions between Coach K and David Robinson before Justin decided to apply to Duke. I mean, both Coach and the Admiral are world-famous, and these things don't happen by accident. Moreover, there are not many seven-footers around whose fathers are in the Hall of Fame. (Although Justin seems super smart to me, why wouldn't Justin want the imprimatur of Duke basketball before submitting his application?) So when you say, "He was not recruited by Duke," you will need to insert several asterisks worth of qualifications.

[Saratoga2]

The name Cason means son of marsh dwellers in old Scottish. Make what you will with that tidbit.

[OldPhiKap]

The name Cason means son of marsh dwellers in old Scottish. Make what you will with that tidbit.

And Pierce was a surgeon at the 4077th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital during the Korean War. Now it all makes sense.

That’s why they called it “The Swamp.”

[Indoor66]

And Pierce was a surgeon at the 4077th Mobile Army Surgical Hospital during the Korean War. Now it all makes sense.

That’s why they called it “The Swamp.”

But who was recruited from Penobscot?

[UrinalCake]

Regarding walkons, my understanding is that a preferred walk-on will be offered a scholarship if one is available after all the roster pieces are determined. Might not mean much to us as fans, but I imagine its a big deal for the player. Even for someone whose family has money like J-Rob, it’s an emotional boost and recognition of their value to the team.

[Saratoga2]

This kid has a high level of academic achievement, besides being a good basketball players. Listed as a 6'7" guard, but doesn't look like that many cinder blocks.

[dm9e24]

Cason visited Duke at the request of Nolan Smith. Not sure if this is regarded as "recruited". but he did visit with his head coach, Freddy Johnson. Freddy and I went to high school together. He holds the record for wins in North Carolina high school basketball. One of Cason's teammates has a full ride to UVa. Another started at Clemson this year.

Great for Freddy's program and for Cason. A number of Ivy league schools wanted Cason.

[sagegrouse]

Cason visited Duke at the request of Nolan Smith. Not sure if this is regarded as "recruited". but he did visit with his head coach, Freddy Johnson. Freddy and I went to high school together. He holds the record for wins in North Carolina high school basketball. One of Cason's teammates has a full ride to UVa. Another started at Clemson this year.

Great for Freddy's program and for Cason. A number of Ivy league schools wanted Cason.

Well, this is "recruitment" as far as I am concerned. Cason and Freddy came down and were likely shown around the campus and the athletic facilities and got to meet the coaching staff. Then he was told -- basically -- "if you come to Duke, you can be on the team." I don't see why these activities would not be governed by the NCAA rules on basketball recruitment, such as timing of visits and phone calls, etc. It was informal to the extent that no grant-in-aid was proffered and there is no LOI. Others can probably educate me.

[budwom]

^ I wouldn't be surprised, though, if someone mentioned Duke's history of sometimes giving walkons scholarships when we don't have 13 scholarship players...if they merit such.

[Jaks19]

From all I have read and see in vids, he pretty good to be a walk on and not play in the Ivy League

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think a lot of the terminology differences have to do with scholarship allocations. Let's say a school is at its max scholarships for a sport. They can't then give a "recruited athlete" an AB Duke or some other form of scholarship as a backdoor way to get more scholarship-caliber athletes on the team. Kind of like how if an athlete plays two sports, there are rules about which sport the athletic scholarship counts against. So once you are classified as a "recruited athlete," everything is handled somewhat differently. If you can afford to pay your own way like Justin Robinson, it probably really isn't relevant, but still needs to be buttoned up. There is more nuance to it than this but I think the terminology they use regarding these recruits relates to this - they got in through the regular admissions door rather than the basketball door, but I think it acknowledges that there was some formal contact, as someone noted above.

Hopefully someone else can explain this better than I did...

[Neals384]

I think a lot of the terminology differences have to do with scholarship allocations. Let's say a school is at its max scholarships for a sport. They can't then give a "recruited athlete" an AB Duke or some other form of scholarship as a backdoor way to get more scholarship-caliber athletes on the team. Kind of like how if an athlete plays two sports, there are rules about which sport the athletic scholarship counts against. So once you are classified as a "recruited athlete," everything is handled somewhat differently. If you can afford to pay your own way like Justin Robinson, it probably really isn't relevant, but still needs to be buttoned up. There is more nuance to it than this but I think the terminology they use regarding these recruits relates to this - they got in through the regular admissions door rather than the basketball door, but I think it acknowledges that there was some formal contact, as someone noted above.

Hopefully someone else can explain this better than I did...

Maybe Cason can play volleyball?

[DU82]

Maybe Cason can play volleyball?

One, no men’s volleyball. Two, he would still count as a basketball player for scholarship and roster purposes.

It’s football, basketball, hockey and the rest for men. The list goes basketball, volleyball and the rest for women.

For instance, Jay Heaps, National soccer player of the year at Duke, was technically on a basketball scholarship. When Nebraska found itself short of players during the B1G tournament this year, they added a couple of football players, because they couldn’t add players from other sports.

[OldPhiKap]

But who was recruited from Penobscot?

Colonel Flagg?

[BD80]

Colonel Flagg?

But was it really him?

[OldPhiKap]

But was it really him?

“ You must spread some Comments around before commenting on BD80 again.”