Expectations for Roach & Steward

[Jaks19]

I know a lot has been mentioned about how Duke will be thin at the 5 and the worries about post play, but Duke is losing Tre and waiting to get back info on Stanley. Both starting guards. They scored in double digits and really were 2 of the 3 most consistent players Duke had this year. So there is a lot riding on Roach and Steward being able to come it and perform at a high level.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Don't discount Goldwire!

[CDu]

I don't expect either Roach or Steward to be as good as Tre Jones was this year. I think the key to next year's team will be the versatility we have. If Hurt and Moore make a jump from freshman to sophomore year, to go along with Jalen Johnson we'll have 3 high-impact players on offense. I'd also expect Steward to be a pretty darn good offensive player immediately. Roach is a little harder to read, but I'd expect a pretty solid PG at the minimum. But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

[Truth&Justise]

But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

All things equal, I'd rather have two really good offensive focal points than 4 to 5 pretty good offensive initiators. I'm a believer that teams need an identity to succeed; everyone needs to know whom to rely on in different situations. I think Johnson, Hurt, and Moore will be the stars next year and will largely determine how the season goes. But maybe some of the freshmen will surprise me.

[Devil2]

I don't expect either Roach or Steward to be as good as Tre Jones was this year. I think the key to next year's team will be the versatility we have. If Hurt and Moore make a jump from freshman to sophomore year, to go along with Jalen Johnson we'll have 3 high-impact players on offense. I'd also expect Steward to be a pretty darn good offensive player immediately. Roach is a little harder to read, but I'd expect a pretty solid PG at the minimum. But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

Duke should also be a better ball handling team with Roach, Stewart, (an improved) Moore, and Jalen Johnson all good ball handlers. Goldwire may also be improved

[Jaks19]

Not looking over JGold at all. I think as a Sr he will be solid as hell. I great captain, role model on effort as a reliable contributor.

Roach is a stud and he posted in a USA Today article (Look it up if you want to read it) that coming off of his ACL injury he is able to see the game better, he is more confident in seeing his shot go down and he is more athletic. He is a lot like Duhon in a way but he also brings that chip like Tre and J Williams where he will get in the lane and jam it. Where he will excel is by having those other ball handlers around him in Steward, Johnson, Moore and JGold. I think he will be very good. He will have those head scratching FR moments too I'm Sure but overall solid.

Steward is the guy worth anticipating. He is so thin, but he is quick and gets his shots off. He can knock down 3's. I just want to see how he handles the demands of the ACC and college ball physically. Some say he is a lot like D Ewing but his ball handling is better.

[dm9e24]

Maybe not ACC POY good, but I expect Roach and Stewart to both average double digits. Both are also known to be good defenders. It will take time adjusting that to the next level, but the foundation is there. Goldwire can do a nice Quinn Cook imitation, taking them under his wing and helping with that adjustment.

[CDu]

All things equal, I'd rather have two really good offensive focal points than 4 to 5 pretty good offensive initiators. I'm a believer that teams need an identity to succeed; everyone needs to know whom to rely on in different situations. I think Johnson, Hurt, and Moore will be the stars next year and will largely determine how the season goes. But maybe some of the freshmen will surprise me.

I'm of the other camp. Because if you only have 2 guys who can score, teams can gameplan you more easily out of success. We saw this offense really bog down at times when teams contained Carey, for example.

Will there by moments when it isn't clear who should be taking the shot? Sure. But I think the ceiling is soooooo much higher when there are multiple weapons.

[Truth&Justise]

I'm of the other camp. Because if you only have 2 guys who can score, teams can gameplan you more easily out of success. We saw this offense really bog down at times when teams contained Carey, for example.

Will there by moments when it isn't clear who should be taking the shot? Sure. But I think the ceiling is soooooo much higher when there are multiple weapons.

I certainly respect the position, and there are teams that have had success in both camps. Personally, I'm guided by the experience of teams like 2008 and 2009, which were loaded with ok-to-good options (Paulus, Scheyer, Smith, Singler, Henderson, Nelson, Williams) but no one ready to step up and lead the team. But come 2010, despite fewer options, three players were able to step forward and take the reigns. The 1991 and 1992 teams also had three clear stars whose success carried the team. And while 2015 may have had four such players capable of initiating offense, there was a clear pecking order that separated those four from the rest. (I'll note, 2001 is a little harder to classify in this system--did they have 2, 3, or even 4 clear stars above the rest of the team?).

But I acknowledge there are "everybody eats" teams that succeed as well. Maybe it all just comes down to the overall talent level, which would render this stylistic discussion moot but is hard to measure.

My concern will remain that on a team where anybody could take over on any given night, nobody consistently does. For better or worse, I see a lot of shades of 2008 in this team.

But, to answer the question of this thread: I don't know what to expect from Roach and Steward. They remain the biggest question marks for me. I see Hurt, Moore, and Johnson leading this team. If Roach and Steward can play at a high level (on both sides of the floor), it goes a long way to raising the team's ceiling. But I'm not yet expecting them to do so.

[scottdude8]

I'm of the other camp. Because if you only have 2 guys who can score, teams can gameplan you more easily out of success. We saw this offense really bog down at times when teams contained Carey, for example.

Will there by moments when it isn't clear who should be taking the shot? Sure. But I think the ceiling is soooooo much higher when there are multiple weapons.

I agree, and that's why I was so excited about the potential of this year's squad at various points in the season. When the offense was humming, even though Carey was the clear focal point anyone could "go off" in a given game. Unfortunately this also led to some games where the offense struggled, but I think that was more due to the team being so young and without a clear lottery-caliber talent, and not due to the overall philosophy at play.

Operating under the expectation that Moore and Hurt come back, if our starting 2-4 are the two of them and Johnson, those are three guys who can all score and, perhaps more importantly, would benefit from an opponent gameplanning to take away one out of the three of them. Obviously we're all still speculating until we get final decisions from some guys, but there's a lot to be excited about.

[Saratoga2]

I agree, and that's why I was so excited about the potential of this year's squad at various points in the season. When the offense was humming, even though Carey was the clear focal point anyone could "go off" in a given game. Unfortunately this also led to some games where the offense struggled, but I think that was more due to the team being so young and without a clear lottery-caliber talent, and not due to the overall philosophy at play.

Operating under the expectation that Moore and Hurt come back, if our starting 2-4 are the two of them and Johnson, those are three guys who can all score and, perhaps more importantly, would benefit from an opponent gameplanning to take away one out of the three of them. Obviously we're all still speculating until we get final decisions from some guys, but there's a lot to be excited about.

I am wondering about how much time the freshmen will have to learn the system after what appears to be a summer of limitations and perhaps no classes at school. If we rely primariy on freshmen, then schools who have retained more quality upperclassmen will have an advantage.

[dukejim1]

I’m also interested in what level of FT shooting this team
will be considering we have a team of slashers. High School numbers don’t necessarily transfer for some reason. If Jalen is not going to be particularly good from the line then Roach, Steward, and Moore need to be. Seems like we will have a chance to return to the days of making more FT’s than our opponents take.

[Kedsy]

I don't expect either Roach or Steward to be as good as Tre Jones was this year. I think the key to next year's team will be the versatility we have. If Hurt and Moore make a jump from freshman to sophomore year, to go along with Jalen Johnson we'll have 3 high-impact players on offense. I'd also expect Steward to be a pretty darn good offensive player immediately. Roach is a little harder to read, but I'd expect a pretty solid PG at the minimum. But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

I'm more concerned about what Roach and Steward are going to bring to the team on defense.

[Truth&Justise]

I'm more concerned about what Roach and Steward are going to bring to the team on defense.

One reason Goldwire might still be in line for big minutes. Wendell Moore's defensive versatility could also be very important.

[jimsumner]

Until we know the decisions of Moore and Stanley it's hard to know how many minutes will be available, especially for Steward.

As an aside, we all need to practice. It's Steward. Not Stewart.

[Rich]

Until we know the decisions of Moore and Stanley it's hard to know how many minutes will be available, especially for Steward.

As an aside, we all need to practice. It's Steward. Not Stewart.

We need to practice?


https://youtu.be/eGDBR2L5kzI

[Jaks19]

Yes, both are going to be very active defensively. Steward needs to gain some strength to his frame. He is listed around 165 on his 6-2+ height. He will need to get stronger to handle some of the bigger 2 guards Duke will face. With that said, DJ has got the pieces offensively. He can shoot it, dribble it and drive by. He has displayed this this year verse other elite prospects that are higher rated than him. He is such a competitive player. That's his edge.

Roach what he sure has is what K loves in a PG. Grit, leadership, and tenacity. I like to temper my expectations for players, but he is one that I can wait to see. Even more so than that of Jalen Johnson.

[proelitedota]

I think Roach is a comparable PG to freshman Tre Jones. Maybe not as good of a rebounder as Tre was. Definitely more creative going into traffic.

Roach and freshman Tre were both questionable shooters from range.

We need one of the freshman front court players do be as good as Bagley, Zion, and Vernon in order to not experience a drop.

[CDu]

I think Roach is a comparable PG to freshman Tre Jones. Maybe not as good of a rebounder as Tre was. Definitely more creative going into traffic.

Roach and freshman Tre were both questionable shooters from range.

We need one of the freshman front court players do be as good as Bagley, Zion, and Vernon in order to not experience a drop.

To be fair, nobody is going to be as good as Zion, and probably not as good as Bagley. But those are pretty high bars. Jalen Johnson MIGHT be as good as Carey. But I don't know that we need to have anyone be THAT good to be successful next year. Hurt and Moore as sophomores should be contenders for All-ACC teams. Jalen Johnson should be in the discussion for ACC PoY, and certainly in the 1st Team All-ACC discussion. And then we should have some other good freshmen to add to the mix along with a solid role player guard in senior Goldwire. The wild cards are Williams, Brakefield, and Baker.

[dm9e24]

Until we know the decisions of Moore and Stanley it's hard to know how many minutes will be available, especially for Steward.

As an aside, we all need to practice. It's Steward. Not Stewart.

Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward

[jimsumner]

Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward, Steward

Bart Simpson at the blackboard?

[Indoor66]

Yeah, but the heels looked good.

[jv001]

Yeah, but the heels looked good.

We've always got that. Even if they are good next season. Two things they will not be able to shake. Last season and the biggest cheats of all time. :cool:

GoDuke!

[SilkyJ]

He is a lot like Duhon in a way but he also brings that chip like Tre and J Williams where he will get in the lane and jam it.

I will admit I haven't seen every minute of Tre Jones' play at Duke (I'm on the west coast so sometimes I'd skip the losses on the DVR when I'd get home...sanity first...), but I saw 90% of those minutes and don't ever recall him jamming it in traffic. I do recall him missing a dunk on a breakaway. Don't remember him ever attempting a dunk again in college after that...oddly I also remember Duhon missing MULTIPLE dunks as a frosh (maybe soph too?) and then going back to layups only.

JWill, on the other hand, had elite athleticism at the rim. Tre was a good finisher below the rim, but not sure I would use those two as a similar comp. JWill was in a category of his own there (could add Johnny Dawkins and Nolan Smith to a certain extent...)

I suspect Roach will be more Tre/Duhon like in his finishing than JWill...if he approaches Nolan then we're in good shape. (And yes, I've seen his HS highlights. Tre also dunked a lot in HS...the ACC ain't HS...)

[Oriole Way]

I will admit I haven't seen every minute of Tre Jones' play at Duke (I'm on the west coast so sometimes I'd skip the losses on the DVR when I'd get home...sanity first...), but I saw 90% of those minutes and don't ever recall him jamming it in traffic. I do recall him missing a dunk on a breakaway. Don't remember him ever attempting a dunk again in college after that...oddly I also remember Duhon missing MULTIPLE dunks as a frosh (maybe soph too?) and then going back to layups only.

JWill, on the other hand, had elite athleticism at the rim. Tre was a good finisher below the rim, but not sure I would use those two as a similar comp. JWill was in a category of his own there (could add Johnny Dawkins and Nolan Smith to a certain extent...)

I suspect Roach will be more Tre/Duhon like in his finishing than JWill...if he approaches Nolan then we're in good shape. (And yes, I've seen his HS highlights. Tre also dunked a lot in HS...the ACC ain't HS...)

Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

[Devilwin]

Dunk or layup, the key word here is"finish".

[dukelion]

Since we're all locked down more or less he's a great video of Roach recently in action.

Spoiler....he played great although I don't think he made or even attempted a single jumper.

https://youtu.be/V8_MIhyKxoY

[SilkyJ]

Since we're all locked down more or less he's a great video of Roach recently in action.

Spoiler...he played great although I don't think he made or even attempted a single jumper.

https://youtu.be/V8_MIhyKxoY


Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji.

We’ve all seen the one video where he jams it once. It’s not recent either—its from two months ago—and he’s wide open in transition (also it looks like he barely got the ball over the rim). Tre has a video where he does the same in HS: right here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFCm80dxA3o). Don’t see how Roach’s dunks look anymore impressive than that one...do you? Don’t overestimate one video.

I think you guys are guilty of the common “moving on + recency bias.” The next recruit becomes better than whoever we just had...and in this case who we just had was a top 10 recruit who just won ACC POY

[Oriole Way]

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji.

We’ve all seen the one video where he jams it once. It’s not recent either—its from two months ago—and he’s wide open in transition (also it looks like he barely got the ball over the rim). Tre has a video where he does the same in HS: right here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFCm80dxA3o). Don’t see how Roach’s dunks look anymore impressive than that one...do you? Don’t overestimate one video.

I think you guys are guilty of the common “moving on + recency bias.” The next recruit becomes better than whoever we just had...and in this case who we just had was a top 10 recruit who just won ACC POY

No, I meant "video" in the plural form. Did not base my assessment on a single video. It's not a stretch at all to project Roach as a better athlete, better dunker, and better at getting to the rim through contact. Those just weren't strengths of Tre's (or Duhon's) game. Doesn't take away from the fact Tre was a fantastic point guard who took care of the ball, was one of the best defending PG's in Duke's history, significantly improved his 3-pt. shot as a sophomore, and he had a better mid-range jumper/floater than Roach or Duhon.

Either way, looking forward to seeing Jeremy play next season. If anything, because it means we're back to a more normal way of life.

[lotusland]

If Stanely does return (fingers crossed) I think he will be the Tre Jones of next year’s team. Not in the same role that Tre filled as playmaker but as a 35 mpg starter, leader and focal point. That’s going to mean less will be asked of the freshmen which is a good thing. JGold is going to play and possibly start (like he often did this year) so guard/wing minutes will be less plentiful. Roach will play but how much will be determined by whether he is more Tre Jones as a frosh than Derryck Thornton or Trevon Duval. Moore, Stanley and JGold are going to play. Hurt and Johnson (I assume) are going to play. So the rest will divvy up the remaining minutes which will probably vary wildly from game to game.

[Jaks19]

Roach is not Tre or Duhon, or Williams or Duval etc...

He might remind us of those players with how parts of his game are played.

Offensively: his mid range and finishing around the rim are good. His 3 point stroke is a work in progress but it appears much improved after watching some HS games of his. He also said he is much more confident in it. This is the area of his game that might cause some people to think of a Fr Tre or Duval

As a floor general: He is a very good passer and facilitator of an offense. This has been a strength of his throughout his HS career.

Size for a PG: At 6-2 and 180, he is about the same as JGold but build a little thicker.

Athletically: He is a good athlete and will jam down a dunk when possible. Lateral movements and such are still going to be in question when coming of an ACL injury

Defensively: He is focused and adds a lot of pressure on the opposing ball handler. Gets his share of takeaways.

I think it is safe to say, he will be the starting PG next year.

[jv001]

Roach is not Tre or Duhon, or Williams or Duval etc...

He might remind us of those players with how parts of his game are played.

Offensively: his mid range and finishing around the rim are good. His 3 point stroke is a work in progress but it appears much improved after watching some HS games of his. He also said he is much more confident in it. This is the area of his game that might cause some people to think of a Fr Tre or Duval

As a floor general: He is a very good passer and facilitator of an offense. This has been a strength of his throughout his HS career.

Size for a PG: At 6-2 and 180, he is about the same as JGold but build a little thicker.

Athletically: He is a good athlete and will jam down a dunk when possible. Lateral movements and such are still going to be in question when coming of an ACL injury

Defensively: He is focused and adds a lot of pressure on the opposing ball handler. Gets his share of takeaways.

I think it is safe to say, he will be the starting PG next year.

Thank you for the info on Roach. The description of his shooting sort of scares me. If he shoots like Duval but may not be as quick as Duval on defense, then I'm concerned. Duval was able to make up for his lack of shooting by being a very good defender and he could drive the ball. Even though his decision making wasn't always the best. I would take a freshmen Tre look-a-like if he's able to defend. I guess we'll have to see how Roach has recovered from his ACL injury in determining how good he'll be.

GoDuke!

[CDu]

Yes. “Video.” Singular. You’ve seen once video and of course he’s better than the guy who just won ACC POY...eye roll emoji

I haven't seen anyone suggest that Roach will be better than Jones was this year, so this response seems out of line.

All I have seen is some folks suggesting he'll be a better athlete than Jones. Which, coincidentally enough, seems to be consistent with the scouting reports for each guy. Jones was an "intangibles" guy with okay athleticism and super-high bball IQ. Roach is considered a pretty athletic PG.

[lotusland]

Yeah with PGs in particular it’s hard to tell how their senior year in HS will translate to their freshman year in college. Roach is coming off an injury which reminds me of Quinn Cook who had some flashy mix-tapes and HS all-star games in HS but was physically unable to defend his freshman year.

[kAzE]

I see Roach as a prototypical guard. He's someone who has good ball skills and the ability to penetrate the defense, two things I was never totally satisfied with in regards to Tre Jones' game as a play maker. This is not to say that I think Roach is a better player than Tre. Roach is quicker and has better ability to break down the defense with his dribble. I haven't seen enough of Roach to understand how he operates as a decision maker, which is going to be a major factor in his NBA potential. Based on his physical profile, he doesn't strike me as an elite athlete, although he can play above the rim. He's just undersized. I don't believe he will be a big time scorer as a freshman. We just have so many options on offense. I do like his potential for some good assist numbers, though.

Steward is another quick but undersized guard, who is more of a scorer than distributor. I think the 2 guys will fit together on the court very well. Steward is most effective with the ball in his hands, but has very good scoring instincts and is also a very skilled ball handler in his own right. He should win the nod as a starter if he can hold up on the defensive end. His scoring ability will be hard to keep on the bench, and I think he can get to double digit points per game if he plays enough.


I don't expect either Roach or Steward to be as good as Tre Jones was this year. I think the key to next year's team will be the versatility we have. If Hurt and Moore make a jump from freshman to sophomore year, to go along with Jalen Johnson we'll have 3 high-impact players on offense. I'd also expect Steward to be a pretty darn good offensive player immediately. Roach is a little harder to read, but I'd expect a pretty solid PG at the minimum. But the advantage next year's team will have over this year's is that we shouldn't be so reliant on one or two players to create offense. We should have 4 or 5 guys capable of creating offense for themselves and/or others.

I agree with a lot of this. But I'm lower on Wendell Moore than you are, I think. His best quality is his defensive versatility. If we had other options this past year, I don't think he would have had the ball in his hands nearly as much as he did. He could improve, but I think with 3 guys who can REALLY handle the ball in Roach, Steward, and Johnson, Wendell running Duke's offense is going to be more of a rarity. Matthew Hurt has a huge range of outcomes. If he gets a lot stronger, he could lead the team in scoring, or he could just continue to be someone who can't stay on the floor against certain match ups. Either way, I think our offense will be very good, if not top 5. The questions are all on defense.

[jv001]

I expect Roach to be a prototypical guard. He's someone who has good ball skills and the ability to penetrate the defense, two things I was never totally satisfied with in regards to Tre Jones' game as a play maker. This is not to say that I think Roach is a better player than Tre. Roach is quicker and has better ability to break down the defense with his dribble. I haven't seen enough of Roach to understand how he operates as a decision maker, which is fundamental to playing the point guard position, and will be the determining factor for whether Roach is a one and done type of talent or someone who may stick around for a few years. Based on his physical profile, he doesn't strike me as an elite athlete, although he can play above the rim. He's just undersized. I don't believe he will be a big time scorer as a freshman. We just have so many options on offense. I do like his potential for some good assist numbers, though.

Steward is another quick but undersized guard, who is more of a scorer than distributor. I think the 2 guys will fit together on the court very well. Steward is most effective with the ball in his hands, but has very good scoring instincts and is also a very skilled ball handler in his own right. He should win the nod as a starter if he can hold up on the defensive end. His scoring ability will be hard to keep on the bench, and I think he can get to double digit points per game if he plays enough.



I agree with a lot of this. But I'm lower on Wendell Moore than you are, I think. His best quality is his defensive versatility. If we had other options this past year, I don't think he would have had the ball in his hands nearly as much as he did. He could improve, but I think with 3 guys who can REALLY handle the ball in Roach, Steward, and Johnson, Wendell running Duke's offense is going to be more of a rarity. Matthew Hurt has a huge range of outcomes. If he gets a lot stronger, he could lead the team in scoring, or he could just continue to be someone who can't stay on the floor against certain match ups. Either way, I think our offense will be very good, if not top 5. The questions are all on defense.

I'm with you on Wendell. I think he could be All-ACC good or he could play about the same amount of minutes he got this season. He's an excellent foul shooter with very good form and that should translate to being a good perimeter shooter. However he hesitates when he's open and many times he ends up driving into a crowd and turns the ball over. I believe that comes from thinking too much and not reacting to what the defense is giving him. I'm 60% thinking he will improve in decision making and shooting this season. That of course is if he returns to Duke. As for the freshmen, I have no high expectations but I don't have any negative vibes either. I'll just wait for my eye test.

GoDuke!

[SilkyJ]

I haven't seen anyone suggest that Roach will be better than Jones was this year, so this response seems out of line.

All I have seen is some folks suggesting he'll be a better athlete than Jones. Which, coincidentally enough, seems to be consistent with the scouting reports for each guy. Jones was an "intangibles" guy with okay athleticism and super-high bball IQ. Roach is considered a pretty athletic PG.

My response was to the below post, suggesting Roach could be a better dunk and overall finisher than Tre. So he suggested Roach would be better than Tre in this regard. So not out of line at all. I think you've just been salty the last few days.

Needlesstosay, I think that's a bold statement to make at this stage (that Roach > Tre as a finisher)

If Roach scores 15 straight points, on the road, against our arch-rival, with the majority of them coming on drives to the rim, I'll change my mind :)


Based on the video I have watched, Roach is a much better dunker than Tre or Duhon. Better at getting to the rim and finishing, too.

[Jaks19]

Duke will be young with Roach, Steward and Moore but each have potential to be very good defenders. Add in JGold and that groups is going to cause some major issues for opposing teams.

[UrinalCake]

I expect our backcourt to be much more dynamic on offense than this past season. I loved Tre as everybody else does, but he had his weaknesses and the backcourt as a whole struggled on offense more often than we'd like to admit this season. Even though we finished the season strong, there were many stretches where our offense was really stagnant, we relied entirely on Tre creating everything and that's not his strength. So while we're not going to have anyone who can match his defensive lockdown potential, I'm looking forward to having multiple ball handlers and multiple guys who can create their own shot. I could see Goldwire and Roach having a Wojo/William Avery kind of dynamic where the older veteran guy plays hard-nosed D and the younger guy has more scoring potential, and fans spend all season arguing over who should be getting more PT.

[soflabluedevil]

To be fair, nobody is going to be as good as Zion, and probably not as good as Bagley. But those are pretty high bars. Jalen Johnson MIGHT be as good as Carey. But I don't know that we need to have anyone be THAT good to be successful next year. Hurt and Moore as sophomores should be contenders for All-ACC teams. Jalen Johnson should be in the discussion for ACC PoY, and certainly in the 1st Team All-ACC discussion. And then we should have some other good freshmen to add to the mix along with a solid role player guard in senior Goldwire. The wild cards are Williams, Brakefield, and Baker.

Repeat-no one will be as good as Zion, and also Bagley. If one of them is as good as Carey as a freshman we will be pleasantly surprised. Part of this is they will be playing in a tougher league next year than Carey faced this past year.

[dm9e24]

Bart Simpson at the blackboard?

I before E except after C

[dm9e24]

From watching in AAU I think Roach will be every bit as good as Tre's freshman year offensively. He is a better penetrator in the lane than the freshman Tre. Steward every bit as good offensively as Cassius without the elite athleticism. Dunking is secondary. Both were good defenders, just not on Tre's level. But Roach is capable.

Neither statement is implying that Roach is better than today's Tre or Steward than Stanley 2 years from now. Freshman year to freshman year.

[proelitedota]

Roach worked on his jumpshot extensively during his recovery. I expect him to be better from range than Tre, who had statically one of the worst 3 pt shooting season for a freshman PG. He was worse than Trevon!

[Jaks19]

Need to wait for the stats during then after the FR year to compare Roach and Tre. Roach has a lot of Tre like qualities in his game but other former Duke names come up to such as Duhon and Avery.

After talking to a few AAU coaches out of VA, they all echo the same thing. Roach is a very calm and cerebral PG. He is a good passer and can penetrate off the dribble. And has all of the tools to be a stud defender. The things that they saw this year was he shot the ball better and played with a fire.

[bullettoothtony]

Roach seems to have that moxie you want in a player who will have his responsibilities. Looking forward to seeing him in action at this level.

[EJ.99]

After watching some of Roach’s games a couple things stand out. First his passing and overall basketball IQ is great. He’s really good at setting up his teammates and making flashy passes out to beyond the three point line when he drives. He also has a great layup package, along with quick feet on defense.

His biggest issue is his shooting. It was brought up earlier in the thread but he never shoots the ball... ever. I’ve watched highlight from multiple games in his senior season and he never ever takes a jump shot. That just may not be how he plays, or maybe he was just in some close games and would rather let Keels shoot. Either way I think he’ll be able to set some of our better shooters up for open shots pretty well. But I don’t think he’ll be as good as Tre in his freshman season.

[Jaks19]

Corey Evans from Rivals, had some very high praise things to say about both Roach and Steward. Its on the Rivals Ticker

[Troublemaker]

A more balanced presentation of Jeremy's game, i.e. points out his weaknesses as well :-)

I really think he's a multi-year college player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMBdighe48M

[lotusland]

A more balanced presentation of Jeremy's game, i.e. points out his weaknesses as well :-)

I really think he's a multi-year college player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMBdighe48M

We’ll really need Jeremy and JGold both to shoot 35% on wide open 3-pointers or defenses will just play off them.

[dukelion]

I think we should also consider Jalen Johnson getting serious minutes at PG.

If Cassius returns could easily see the following:

1 Johnson
2 Cassius
3 Moore
4 Hurt
5 Williams

That's big lineup that could switch almost anything.......interesting offensive potential as well.

[UrinalCake]

A more balanced presentation of Jeremy's game, i.e. points out his weaknesses as well :-)

Thanks for the link, very informative. He reminds me of Trevon Duval as a high school prospect. Hopefully will be able to develop better in year one.

[jv001]

A more balanced presentation of Jeremy's game, i.e. points out his weaknesses as well :-)

I really think he's a multi-year college player.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMBdighe48M

Thanks for the video, TM. I guess this might be one of the best youtube clips I've seen as it gives the best and worst of a player's game. I'm with you in that Jeremy might be a multi-player. His weaknesses seem to be decision making as a point guard and his perimeter shot. I was reminded of Wendell Moore in the video and that got me to thinking if we have Wendell, Jeremy and Jalen in the lineup together the offense may not hit on all cylinders. Then we have Jordan that will see minutes because of his defense. We need for two of these players to improve their shot and Coach K will still need to match his lineup with the players that can shoot it from outside. If Matthew and Cassius return that gives us two shooters to go along with Joey. As for the other freshmen, I have no idea how good they shoot it from distance. The good thing I got from the video was Jeremy seems to be a willing defender and that should get him minutes. However, I hope we don't have one way players like this past season.

GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

^ agree with jv’s assessment. It’s hard to predict how well a player’s decision making will translate to the college level, it’s an intangible quality that cannot be measured like a player’s vertical leap or three point shooting percentage. I mentioned Duval earlier as a guy who had immense physical tools, but his decision making was poor and he never really caught up to the speed of the college game. Conversely, Tyus and Tre did not stand out on paper but had that “it” factor.

Much of the season will be riding on Roach’s development. We’ll really be missing the leadership and poise that Tre brought. The fact that the team won’t have the full summer (or maybe any of the summer) to get on campus and bond is a real bummer for this young team.

[Troublemaker]

From watching in AAU I think Roach will be every bit as good as Tre's freshman year offensively. He is a better penetrator in the lane than the freshman Tre. Steward every bit as good offensively as Cassius without the elite athleticism. Dunking is secondary. Both were good defenders, just not on Tre's level. But Roach is capable.

Neither statement is implying that Roach is better than today's Tre or Steward than Stanley 2 years from now. Freshman year to freshman year.

His actual AAU stats are unimpressive, though. With the major caveat that we never got to see how Jeremy would've performed the summer after his junior year, due to his injury. But, the summer after his sophomore year, Jeremy put up Tyler Thornton type numbers (sans the high number of steals that Tyler would generate) (https://www.d1circuit.com/roster_players/24308613):


https://i.imgur.com/inYwYXw.png

https://i.imgur.com/ChkKYeV.png

[Troublemaker]

Here are Jeremy's USA stats with the U16 and U17 teams, respectively.

Keeping in mind it's somewhat impressive to even make those teams considering there are older players than him on them (although he wasn't the only young guy to make the teams), the assists to turnovers ratios aren't that impressive.

On balance, I don't think Jeremy's going to be as good as or better than freshman Tre Jones.


https://i.imgur.com/WyWwaoP.png


https://i.imgur.com/ALypuEC.png

[jv001]

Here are Jeremy's USA stats with the U16 and U17 teams, respectively.

Keeping in mind it's somewhat impressive to even make those teams considering there are older players than him on them (although he wasn't the only young guy to make the teams), the assists to turnovers ratios aren't that impressive.

On balance, I don't think Jeremy's going to be as good as or better than freshman Tre Jones.


https://i.imgur.com/WyWwaoP.png


https://i.imgur.com/ALypuEC.png

Lot's of turnovers in both set of stats. I also saw Wendell's stats on both. In the 16 year old group. Wendell shot 34% on 2's, 11%(1-9) on his 3s, 75% of his FTs, 8 assists and 8 turnovers, 15 steals. in the 17 year old group: he shot 46% of his 2s, 20%(2-10) on his 3s, 78% FTs, 16 assists and 5 turnovers and 11 steals. So, we saw some of the same from Wendell in his freshmen year at Duke, not a very good shooter, especially on 3s, sloppy with the ball but good on defense. Looking for improvement in his sophomore year at Duke. Work on that outside shot young man and clean up that decision making.

GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

^ agree with jv’s assessment. It’s hard to predict how well a player’s decision making will translate to the college level, it’s an intangible quality that cannot be measured like a player’s vertical leap or three point shooting percentage. I mentioned Duval earlier as a guy who had immense physical tools, but his decision making was poor and he never really caught up to the speed of the college game. Conversely, Tyus and Tre did not stand out on paper but had that “it” factor.

Much of the season will be riding on Roach’s development. We’ll really be missing the leadership and poise that Tre brought. The fact that the team won’t have the full summer (or maybe any of the summer) to get on campus and bond is a real bummer for this young team.

Not if Jeremy comes off the bench like he should (imo).

I would say since Jalen Johnson is the centerpiece of the class, the season will ride on whether we surround him with the proper complementary talent to maximize Jalen.

Also, obviously the frosh-to-soph jumps that Moore, Hurt, and maybe Stanley make will be key.

[dm9e24]

I pray that a majority of the freshmen class are multi year. Like everyone but Jalen. And then put this core group with Griffin, Baldwin and Christie. And maybe a few junior and senior holdovers. Old school would be fun.

[SilkyJ]

I think we should also consider Jalen Johnson getting serious minutes at PG.

If Cassius returns could easily see the following:

1 Johnson
2 Cassius
3 Moore
4 Hurt
5 Williams

That's big lineup that could switch almost anything...interesting offensive potential as well.

I'd bet everything Williams doesn't see much action. The list of freshman who have started or played a lot as a true center for Duke is pretty small.

Centers who start for Duke as a frosh over last ~20 years are almost always ranked very high in the RSCI:

- Brand (N/A)
- Sheld (8)
- Jah (1)
- Wendell (7)
- Vern (5)
- Jabari (not a center, but he played the 5 a lot -- ranked 3)

Mark williams is ranked 28 in the RSCI.

Your 'average' center comes in with fewer ball skills, they are slower, and are still growing into their bodies. It takes someone exceptional to be able to start for Duke at center. M. Williams seems to fit squarely in the category of lanky, unpolished projects: Eric Boateng, Casey Sanders, Javin, Miles Plumlee (frankly Miles would be an upside case).

He seems to have a lot more in common with them than Jah, Vern, Wendell, Shelden or Brand, don't you think?

[AZLA]

This may sound weird but Jeremy’s strengths remind me of Hurley, based on how well he pushes the ball in transition and passing on the break. Also he seems to have a tenacity for on the ball D. He has a quick outside shot with flatter arch like BH. Might be a stretch ... but BH came to mind especially running the break, which hands down, Bobby was the best ever at it at Duke.

[jaywilliams22]

I pray that a majority of the freshmen class are multi year. Like everyone but Jalen. And then put this core group with Griffin, Baldwin and Christie. And maybe a few junior and senior holdovers. Old school would be fun.

Agreed here. Given the current state of the world it is hard to look so far into the future....and so many things can change. I've had my eye on the '21-'22 season for awhile now.

A back court of Roach & Steward as 2nd year players + senior Joey Baker + front court returners of Brakefield, Williams, Coleman + incoming AJ Griffin (still think he is top 5 pick in his draft), and the potential of adding a Pat Baldwin (100% CB for us) and Max Christie (100% CB for us) makes for a very good roster. One can dream.

I'd imagine Moore and Hurt go after this coming season (if there is one).

[lotusland]

I think it’s fine if Duke isn’t a PG dominate team next year especially if both Stanley and Hurt return along with Moore. I think either Roach or JGold will be in most of the time. The offense may run through Johnson at times but I doubt he’ll actually guard the opponent’s PG. I trust that Johnson will be a key player. With that said, if Stanley comes back, he’ll be the man next year. The game is going to slow down for Hurt and Moore also. If Williams can guard the post and protect the rim, he’ll be in the rotation because we don’t have that otherwise. I hope Roach sticks for 2-3 years. It’s always good to have a veteran PG. as I said before, we just need Jeremy and JGold to hit wide open 3s at 35%+ rate so we can make the defense pay if they play off them.

[Troublemaker]

I think it’s fine if Duke isn’t a PG dominate team next year especially if both Stanley and Hurt return along with Moore.

Yeah, since Jalen and Wendell love to create with the ball in their hands so much, they're going to be de facto point guards much of the time anyway. Jim Sumner has written on here that he believes Moore is going to make a big frosh-to-soph jump and make an All-ACC team, and I'd bet he has some input from coaches on that. The question then becomes how to maximize Jalen and Wendell, which to me means putting shooting around them.

Almost everyone agrees that Jeremy's greatest strength is getting to the basket (and I agree as well) but unfortunately, that skill of his gets neutered by the surrounding talent in the most frequently mentioned lineups. Jeremy will drive, okay, but he will drive into Wendell's man, into Jalen's man, and if we play a center, Mark's man, too, because those guys don't spread the court. Jeremy's going to drive into turnovers or blocked shots like in the "Weaknesses" portion of the video I linked above. In other words, Roach is a bad fit alongside Moore and Johnson, imo. We can't put all these poor shooting creators on the court together. It doesn't make sense and doesn't make the sum greater than the parts.

Please start and play DJ Steward 30+ minutes, Coach. Please recruit and play your shooters. Please recruit and play players that fit together well.

[Jaks19]

If Cassius returns and/or Hurt, a lot of players will be dribble drive players and others will have to knock down shots