Keenan Worthington

[Jaks19]

This walk-on comes from a competitive HS in NJ where he had a solid HS career. He had some pretty nice games against some other D1 players that were are attending the likes of Gonzaga. Yes, he's a walk on...

My nephew attends Blairs Academy and said some of the basketball players who are still in contact with Keenan said that Keenan has gotten much stronger and added 15lbs. They also said that Keenan told them that he has grown tremendously as a player from what he learned from JRob and that Keenan has adopted the mindset of "always be ready". No one expects him to every really contribute in games but it is always good to have a big guy that is part of the scout team and a kid that is so committed to be a part of the Brotherhood.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I'm going to need some before and after pics to confirm the muscle gains. And make sure to get ones with the newspaper for the day so we can confirm dates.

[Saratoga2]

This walk-on comes from a competitive HS in NJ where he had a solid HS career. He had some pretty nice games against some other D1 players that were are attending the likes of Gonzaga. Yes, he's a walk on...

My nephew attends Blairs Academy and said some of the basketball players who are still in contact with Keenan said that Keenan has gotten much stronger and added 15lbs. They also said that Keenan told them that he has grown tremendously as a player from what he learned from JRob and that Keenan has adopted the mindset of "always be ready". No one expects him to every really contribute in games but it is always good to have a big guy that is part of the scout team and a kid that is so committed to be a part of the Brotherhood.

He is either 6'8' or 6'9" and was listed at 215#. If he is 225 to 230 then he can play inside. We saw how JRob improved over his career and how Jack White contributed so it's not that surprising if Keenan can give us something next season.

[Troublemaker]

He is either 6'8' or 6'9" and was listed at 215#. If he is 225 to 230 then he can play inside. We saw how JRob improved over his career and how Jack White contributed so it's not that surprising if Keenan can give us something next season.

It'd be shocking. Jack is a recruited scholarship player. JRob is a preferred walk-on (https://usatodayhss.com/2018/ncsa-what-is-a-preferred-walk-on) who is the son of an NBA Hall-of-Famer and who had always flashed shotblocking and 3-pt shooting ability in his mop-up minutes. (Additionally, they only started contributing as upperclassmen but that's such a minor point in the context of everything else that separates them from Keenan).

[CDu]

It'd be shocking. Jack is a recruited scholarship player. JRob is a preferred walk-on (https://usatodayhss.com/2018/ncsa-what-is-a-preferred-walk-on) who is the son of an NBA Hall-of-Famer and who had always flashed shotblocking and 3-pt shooting ability in his mop-up minutes. (Additionally, they only started contributing as upperclassmen but that's such a minor point in the context of everything else that separates them from Keenan).

Also, Robinson is a fifth-year senior, and White was a true junior last year when he made his impact. Worthington would be a second-year freshman.

[mattman91]

The fact that they redshirted him means they think he may be able to contribute in some meaningful way. When was the last time we redshirted a (non preferred/non grandson of K) walk-on?

[ChillinDuke]

The fact that they redshirted him means they think he may be able to contribute in some meaningful way. When was the last time we redshirted a (non preferred/non grandson of K) walk-on?

I'm not sure redshirting actually means that. It's a free option. Some kids may not want to buy into the option and say, "Coach, just play me in mop-up duty" and some kids may say, "You know, Coach, if you wouldn't mind and we have plenty of players, can I sit out this year and use my free option?"

Sometimes we don't have enough players and we need to get guys off the court. But this year we had, like, a million players so there was no need to worry about finding bodies. So Keenan, assuming he voiced an opinion, got his free option. He may still not exercise it and graduate in 4 years as a Redshirt Junior.

- Chillin

[-jk]

I'm not sure redshirting actually means that. It's a free option. Some kids may not want to buy into the option and say, "Coach, just play me in mop-up duty" and some kids may say, "You know, Coach, if you wouldn't mind and we have plenty of players, can I sit out this year and use my free option?"

Sometimes we don't have enough players and we need to get guys off the court. But this year we had, like, a million players so there was no need to worry about finding bodies. So Keenan, assuming he voiced an opinion, got his free option. He may still not exercise it and graduate in 4 years as a Redshirt Junior.

- Chillin

I'm not sure "free option" for a 5th year is the right phrase for a kid paying his own way!

-jk

[ChillinDuke]

I'm not sure "free option" for a 5th year is the right phrase for a kid paying his own way!

-jk

Ha! Fair enough.

But it's still free in the sense that, he doesn't have to exercise a fifth year unless it looks like it will pay dividends. In whatever way he wants to define dividends.

- Chillin

[dm9e24]

I thought Keenan was a preferred walk-on. What were the circumstances that allow a 5th year for Justin? What would keep Keenan from earning a scholarship at some time in his stay at Duke like Justin and Buckmire?

[BD80]

I'm going to need some before and after pics to confirm the muscle gains. And make sure to get ones with the newspaper for the day so we can confirm dates.

And cinder blocks. There must be cinder blocks.

[JasonEvans]

Just so we are clear, Worthington did have offers from several smaller D1 programs and was rated as a 2-star prospect after being named 1st team All-State in New Jersey. So, he may be a little bit better than the typical walk-on. That said, it would seem to be highly unlikely that he will be anything more than a mop-up player next season. I suppose it is possible he will develop over several years in the program (unlikely, but not unprecedented) but the notion that he will be even a small role player next season is just hard to imagine.

[Jaks19]

Guess wait until the roster for next season is posted.

He is not a player that I would think gets a role outside of mop up minutes, but hey, who knows. The 2019-2020 JRob story has taught me no not count anything out.

If K has extra scholarships, I am assuming that he will give them out like he has always done to walk-on or 2.

The point of posting this was that maybe, just maybe, the kid can enjoy his time at Duke as a part of the team and contribute in practice to assist the team in winning games. Which a great thing to have on a team.

[jimsumner]

People think Worthington is going to be a rotation player as a redshirt freshman because Robinson became a rotation players as a fifth-year senior?

Gee, if only one could find a logical flaw in that reasoning.

[budwom]

People think Worthington is going to be a rotation player as a redshirt freshman because Robinson became a rotation players as a fifth-year senior?

Gee, if only one could find a logical flaw in that reasoning.

He has a terrific name, though.

[Jaks19]

Who said rotational player?

Lots of "rational" thoughts in assumptions.

But I guess a lot of columnist make a living out of reading tea leaves and reporting "news" …

[sagegrouse]

Who said rotational player?

Lots of "rational" thoughts in assumptions.

But I guess a lot of columnist make a living out of reading tea leaves and reporting "news" …

I guess you mean, "rational" equals "rotational" minus "OT." I have no idea what that means.

[MCFinARL]

I guess you mean, "rational" equals "rotational" minus "OT." I have no idea what that means.

That he won't play in overtime? ;)

[CDu]

I thought Keenan was a preferred walk-on. What were the circumstances that allow a 5th year for Justin? What would keep Keenan from earning a scholarship at some time in his stay at Duke like Justin and Buckmire?

Robinson was a fifth-year senior this year because they redshirted him one year. Same thing that Worthington will have if he decides to stay for all five years since they redshirted him this year.

Redshirts for walk-ons is I think pretty common.

[jimsumner]

Who said rotational player?
…

" We saw how JRob improved over his career and how Jack White contributed so it's not that surprising if Keenan can give us something next season."

[sagegrouse]

I thought Keenan was a preferred walk-on. What were the circumstances that allow a 5th year for Justin? What would keep Keenan from earning a scholarship at some time in his stay at Duke like Justin and Buckmire?

Eligibility is about "playing for college" not "paying for college." It doesn't matter who pays -- or terms like "scholarship player," "walk-on," or "preferred walk-on." Eligibility has to do with playing in a regular season game during one season. Do that four different seasons and you're done.

Of course, there are exceptions allowed for "medical redshirts."

[CDu]

The fact that they redshirted him means they think he may be able to contribute in some meaningful way. When was the last time we redshirted a (non preferred/non grandson of K) walk-on?

I think the Davidson brothers and at least one of the Pagliucas redshirted. It's not that uncommon.

[sagegrouse]

I think the Davidson brothers and at least one of the Pagliucas redshirted. It's not that uncommon.

Logic is the other way, per Coach K. If one doesn't play, one doesn't lose a season of eligibility. There is no meaningful declaration of "redshirt" -- it is an outcome of never getting in a game.

Now football, OTOH, has made it really different -- given that players can play up to four games without losing a season of eligibility. It's the fifth game that's the trick -- or the end of the fifth year, since players have five years to complete four years of participation.

[CDu]

Logic is the other way, per Coach K. If one doesn't play, one doesn't lose a season of eligibility. There is no meaningful declaration of "redshirt" -- it is an outcome of never getting in a game.

This is another example of "word candy" from Coach K. While technically true, there has to be a plan in advance to redshirt the player, because if the player plays in a single game, the redshirt is off the table. This is more tangibly important if the player is a recruited player on the fringe of being minutes-worthy. See last year regarding Baker, or a few years back with Plumlee and Murphy. Those guys could have easily been small-minutes players as freshmen. But the team made the decision before the season to redshirt them. They didn't say it out loud (definitely not in the cases of Plumlee and Murphy; not as sure about Baker), but the decision was made. Of course, we know that Coach K later changed his mind last year with Baker for those infamous 17 minutes.

It's also not entirely true that the logic is the other way. They explicitly said before the season that Savarino and Worthington would redshirt. So while it has often in the past been true that the team quietly redshirted a player (e.g., Murphy, Plumlee), it is not a hard and fast principle.

[mattman91]

Maybe there will be basketball games being played by the time Keenan is a fifth year senior...

[sagegrouse]

This is another example of "word candy" from Coach K. While technically true, there has to be a plan in advance to redshirt the player, because if the player plays in a single game, the redshirt is off the table. This is more tangibly important if the player is a recruited player on the fringe of being minutes-worthy. See last year regarding Baker, or a few years back with Plumlee and Murphy. Those guys could have easily been small-minutes players as freshmen. But the team made the decision before the season to redshirt them. They didn't say it out loud (definitely not in the cases of Plumlee and Murphy; not as sure about Baker), but the decision was made. Of course, we know that Coach K later changed his mind last year with Baker for those infamous 17 minutes.

It's also not entirely true that the logic is the other way. They explicitly said before the season that Savarino and Worthington would redshirt. So while it has often in the past been true that the team quietly redshirted a player (e.g., Murphy, Plumlee), it is not a hard and fast principle.

It ain't Coach K -- it's the NCAA. There is no regulatory provision covering the term "redshirt." There, of course, can be an intent from a coach that a player would not play and retain another year of eligibility . But K doesn't use the "R" term -- the NCAA doesn't recognize the term -- so what are we arguing about?

[CDu]

It ain't Coach K -- it's the NCAA.

You said, " per Coach K." So I was referring to that.


There is no regulatory provision covering the term "redshirt." There, of course, can be an intent from a coach that a player would not play and retain another year of eligibility.

This seems a pointless statement. There is a provision that - if a player doesn't play at all, and has not previously exhausted the provision - a player may retain a year of eligibility. And since a player cannot play in a single game in NCAA bball to maintain that opportunity, it either has to be planned in advance (for a player who would have earned some minutes otherwise) or happy coincidence (for a player with no chance at ever seeing the floor). That the NCAA doesn't officially call it a redshirt is meaningless. We have, as a culture, agreed on the term "redshirt" for both those planned and unplanned cases of this.


But K doesn't use the "R" term -- the NCAA doesn't recognize the term -- so what are we arguing about?

https://balldurham.com/2019/10/31/duke-basketball-coach-k-push-retirement/

Who cares if Coach K uses the term "redshirt" or not? The point is the same - they made the plan prior to the season this year to redshirt (or whatever term you want to use) Savarino and Worthington. Explicitly so. Just like in previous years they made the plan prior to the season to redshirt (or whatever term you like) Murphy and Plumlee and Baker (though they changed their mind midseason on Baker).

[mattman91]

The world is falling apart and y'all are on here arguing over the term "redshirt":D

[-jk]

The world is falling apart and y'all are on here arguing over the term "redshirt":D

Pedantry? We’re number one!

-jk

[dm9e24]

Eligibility is about "playing for college" not "paying for college." It doesn't matter who pays -- or terms like "scholarship player," "walk-on," or "preferred walk-on." Eligibility has to do with playing in a regular season game during one season. Do that four different seasons and you're done.

Of course, there are exceptions allowed for "medical redshirts."

Justin was able to be on the roster for 5 years, part of that being helped financially
in those 5 years by being on scholarship at Coach K's discretion. I understand the concept of 4 years of eligibility. But Justin redshirted, just as Keenan is doing. And Keenan can be on the roster for 5 years under that scenario. Buckmire will more than likely finish in four years as I don't recall him being a redshirt. But he is on scholarship this year. K's grandson is probably going to Duke for free as a son or grandson of a Duke employee. If not, he has David Robinson money.

[Phredd3]

But he is on scholarship this year. K's grandson is probably going to Duke for free as a son or grandson of a Duke employee.

Uh, no. Duke education paid with a UNC deductible, please. Duke won't pay for anyone to go to UNC, so they only pay the difference. That's still plenty expensive. When I was an undergrad, getting a state-university education was the equivalent of buying a small car. Now it's like buying a small car EVERY YEAR for four years. Believe me. I know.

Of course, getting a full Duke education is the equivalent of buying a decent-sized house in Durham, so I'm not dissing the Golden Handcuffs.