Possibility of a Senior coalition for extra eligibility?

[thedukelamere]

Wasn't sure if this warranted it's own thread, so mods feel free to move if needed...

Assuming March Madness is outright cancelled instead of postponed; what do you think the odds are that we will see a group of seniors across the country band together to lobby for an extra year of eligibility similar to what Northwestern players did about forming a union? It would absolutely wreck havoc on available scholarship numbers, but I think it would be an interesting case to make... Thoughts?

[Ultrarunner]

Wasn't sure if this warranted it's own thread, so mods feel free to move if needed...

Assuming March Madness is outright cancelled instead of postponed; what do you think the odds are that we will see a group of seniors across the country band together to lobby for an extra year of eligibility similar to what Northwestern players did about forming a union? It would absolutely wreck havoc on available scholarship numbers, but I think it would be an interesting case to make... Thoughts?

I see no reason why they should be given an additional year of eligibility. Since the regular season was over and tournaments partially (or completely in some cases) over, the vast majority had already played all the games that they were going to. For the young men and women that would have had a post-season, there is a loss of games but I don't see how that outweighs the normal season and post-season games are not guaranteed.
That doesn't mean that they can't try - I just don't see a good argument to grant their request.

[sbroc012]

Just another reason for the NCAA not to do the selection show. If they never release the bracket, then players can't claim they were in the tournament (except for auto-bid winners).

[DU82]

I see no reason why they should be given an additional year of eligibility. Since the regular season was over and tournaments partially (or completely in some cases) over, the vast majority had already played all the games that they were going to. For the young men and women that would have had a post-season, there is a loss of games but I don't see how that outweighs the normal season and post-season games are not guaranteed.
That doesn't mean that they can't try - I just don't see a good argument to grant their request.

There’s a lot of sports that are just getting going, such as baseball and lacrosse. They did not get to finish a regular season, let alone a post-season.

I also wonder if schools will be able to finish the academic semester/quarter, or if students in general will need to extend their educational stay.

Lots of unknowns right now.

[Ultrarunner]

There’s a lot of sports that are just getting going, such as baseball and lacrosse. They did not get to finish a regular season, let alone a post-season.

I also wonder if schools will be able to finish the academic semester/quarter, or if students in general will need to extend their educational stay.

Lots of unknowns right now.

You are correct. I focused on basketball as that was part of the OP premise, i.e. the cancellation of March Madness.
Athletes in other sports would have a much stronger argument regarding their eligibility - effectively, for them, it could be a presumed red shirt season across the entire NCAA sport.

[budwom]

You are correct. I focused on basketball as that was part of the OP premise, i.e. the cancellation of March Madness.
Athletes in other sports would have a much stronger argument regarding their eligibility - effectively, for them, it could be a presumed red shirt season across the entire NCAA sport.

True, but a lot of those other sports like lacrosse and baseball have very limited scholarships (I think baseball has something like 12.7) so bringing a number of seniors back might not be feasible.

[Troublemaker]

Just another reason for the NCAA not to do the selection show. If they never release the bracket, then players can't claim they were in the tournament (except for auto-bid winners).

Huh, I had never considered they might do a Selection Show, anyway, despite (very likely) canceling the tournament. But now that you brought it up, I hope they do it. I *think* I would watch, and I think I would participate in the debates afterwards about who would make the Final Four and such. Teams that put together a tournament-quality resume would hopefully find a small measure of satisfaction to being named to the field.

As to your original point, though, I find the likelihood of success for such a lawsuit to be very small regardless of whether a Selection Show occurs or not.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

There’s a lot of sports that are just getting going, such as baseball and lacrosse. They did not get to finish a regular season, let alone a post-season.

I also wonder if schools will be able to finish the academic semester/quarter, or if students in general will need to extend their educational stay.

Lots of unknowns right now.
My S.O.'s granddaughter's boyfriend is a senior on the golf team at Brown. He was notified on Monday that his season was cancelled, and was really, really bummed. Of course, as of this afternoon (Thursday), the ACC has done the same for all spring sports. Major bummer for the senior athletes, but understandable.

[Ian]

True, but a lot of those other sports like lacrosse and baseball have very limited scholarships (I think baseball has something like 12.7) so bringing a number of seniors back might not be feasible.

It's really not that hard just to have an exemption, that seniors who gets granted this extra year of eligibility don't count toward the scholarship total limit.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The basketball season was literally over. That's why anything after last weekend is called "The Post Season".
Sorry for folks in late Spring sports, but for the ones in the winter, such as b-ball, thanks for playing. (And in Duke's case, thanks for playing and being awesome and frustrating and awesome again.)

PS..enjoy your free pass, GT

[Pghdukie]

Granted, sports are an intriguing aspect of college life that we will miss. BUT what about the academics ?

[Phredd3]

Granted, sports are an intriguing aspect of college life that we will miss. BUT what about the academics ?

My wife is presently trying to figure out how best to present her course material through some form of online media. Students will be taught. It may be somewhat less effective than what they'd have otherwise gotten, but students will learn.

It is the grades below the college level that are by FAR the bigger problem. BTW, Durham Public Schools just announced that they will be closed after tomorrow (i.e. starting Monday). No specified end date as of now.

[Fish80]

Many schools are already doing virtual (remote) classes. My nephew goes to Dayton. Feel bad for them. Probably a 1 seed with a chance to compete.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Why would seniors only get the extra year if something needed to be done? Just because it was their last chance they should get another? What about the Junior at a small school that won their AQ who next year would be needing to win their senior year and fails? He had 3 chances if you take out this year and that senior would get 4 over his career?

Either everyone gets one more shot since it was taken from everyone or no one does. Should be no special treatment for the senior class, it happened to everyone.

[burnspbesq]

Every member of the 2006 Duke men’s lax team who was enrolled for the Spring 2007 semester was granted an extra year of eligibility. That’s the model.

Thanks to the efforts of interim head coach Kevin Cassese, every member of the 2006 incoming class save one enrolled. Can’t find any reliable information as to what was done about the scholarship limit for the 2007-10 seasons.

[msdukie]

Why would seniors only get the extra year if something needed to be done? Just because it was their last chance they should get another? What about the Junior at a small school that won their AQ who next year would be needing to win their senior year and fails? He had 3 chances if you take out this year and that senior would get 4 over his career?

Either everyone gets one more shot since it was taken from everyone or no one does. Should be no special treatment for the senior class, it happened to everyone.

THIS

[BlueDevil16]

We need a backup 5 next year and JRob, Javin, and Jack would fit that mold perfectly so I’m onboard with this

[hallcity]

"The NCAA’s Council Coordination Committee has agreed to grant relief for the use of a season of competition for student-athletes who have participated in spring sports.

Committee will also discuss issues for winter sport student-athletes."

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1238509859856924672

[wsb3]

The basketball season was literally over. That's why anything after last weekend is called "The Post Season".
Sorry for folks in late Spring sports, but for the ones in the winter, such as b-ball, thanks for playing. (And in Duke's case, thanks for playing and being awesome and frustrating and awesome again.)

PS..enjoy your free pass, GT

I had not even thought about that until I read your post. They dropped their protest of being banned from the postseason just a little while ago. Their postseason ban cost them nothing.

[Wander]

Coach K released a video supporting this. It is definitely not just a completely unrealistic out-there idea.

[sagegrouse]

"The NCAA’s Council Coordination Committee has agreed to grant relief for the use of a season of competition for student-athletes who have participated in spring sports.

Committee will also discuss issues for winter sport student-athletes."

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1238509859856924672

Anyway, not hoops --


In response to the cancellation of collegiate spring sports due to the coronavirus pandemic, the NCAA Division I Council Committee has recommended that eligibility relief be provided to all student-athletes who participate in spring sports.

"Details of eligibility relief will be finalized at a later time," the NCAA said in a statement. "Additional issues with NCAA rules must be addressed, and appropriate governance bodies will work through those in the coming days and week."

Spring sports include baseball, men's and women's lacrosse, softball and men's volleyball.

Not following closely, but the only hoops coach I have heard arguing for giving seniors another year is Geno Auriemma at UConn WBB. Dangerfield is a senior averaging 15 ppg

[dukebluesincebirth]

Anyway, not hoops --



Not following closely, but the only hoops coach I have heard arguing for giving seniors another year is Geno Auriemma at UConn WBB. Dangerfield is a senior averaging 15 ppg

Add Coach K to that list.

[dukelion]

Fairly agnostic about this going ahead but man would it make for an absolutely epic season next year.

So many mid-majors would be absolutely lethal next year.

Don't think it would help us out much (unless JRob came back) but the bottom rung of the ACC instantly becomes much better and would make for a crazy and super competitive year....probably to our detriment but fun nonetheless.

[arnie]

Coach K released a video supporting this. It is definitely not just a completely unrealistic out-there idea.

But the Cheat season ended before the cancellation and their players quit by halftime on Wednesday. Why should their seniors get another shot?

[wavedukefan70s]

My S.O.'s granddaughter's boyfriend is a senior on the golf team at Brown. He was notified on Monday that his season was cancelled, and was really, really bummed. Of course, as of this afternoon (Thursday), the ACC has done the same for all spring sports. Major bummer for the senior athletes, but understandable.

We were wondering the effect of seniors returning would have on incoming recruits .

[Wander]

But the Cheat season ended before the cancellation and their players quit by halftime on Wednesday. Why should their seniors get another shot?

They shouldn't. But either decision is going to be unfair to a lot of people, so I'd rather err on the side that is more favorable to the players. Besides, UNC was so awful that it probably hurts them to return more players :)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

They shouldn't. But either decision is going to be unfair to a lot of people, so I'd rather err on the side that is more favorable to the players. Besides, UNC was so awful that it probably hurts them to return more players :)

Good point. However, every team in the SoCon except one had finished their season. Is it more fair to more players to give them extra eligibility?

[JasonEvans]

https://apple.news/AQgaTSgY6Sy25GczcmA84IQ

Looks like the NCAA is granting an extra year of eligibility to spring athletes. So baseball, golf, tennis, Lax... but not hoops, right?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

https://apple.news/AQgaTSgY6Sy25GczcmA84IQ

Looks like the NCAA is granting an extra year of eligibility to spring athletes. So baseball, golf, tennis, Lax... but not hoops, right?

Likely a first step. Much easier decision than the winter sports. As I mentioned elsewhere, lots of conferences had either completed or nearly completed seasons. It's complicated.

[lotusland]

We need a backup 5 next year and JRob, Javin, and Jack would fit that mold perfectly so I’m onboard with this

Jav returning would also give us another 5 fouls in 5-7 minutes of PT in the post before fouling out. Would love for JRob return but would a red- Shirt 4th year grad student be eligible if they do include basketball in the relief sports?

[weezie]

Won't the NCAA have to loosen the scholarship restrictions, meaning total allowed on a team?
Maybe 2 repeating seniors per team might be reasonable?

[proelitedota]

What if seniors that are on teams that qualified for the tourney, are allowed to play only for the tourney next season?

They are also allowed to play in practice.

[Dukehky]

What if seniors that are on teams that qualified for the tourney, are allowed to play only for the tourney next season?

They are also allowed to play in practice.

Who qualified for the tournament though? What about those kids who would have played in the NIT? It just gets to be such a mess.

I don't think this will happen. I don't think it's practicable. They got 4 whole years. The NCAA tournament is awesome, but only 1 team wins.

[dukelifer]

Who qualified for the tournament though? What about those kids who would have played in the NIT? It just gets to be such a mess.

I don't think this will happen. I don't think it's practicable. They got 4 whole years. The NCAA tournament is awesome, but only 1 team wins.

This year 68 teams and their fans cried at the end of the season. Usually it is only 67.

[uh_no]

Who qualified for the tournament though? What about those kids who would have played in the NIT? It just gets to be such a mess.

I don't think this will happen. I don't think it's practicable. They got 4 whole years. The NCAA tournament is awesome, but only 1 team wins.

yeah no chance of that proposal flying. Either seniors get an extra year of eligibility or they don't...there are too many corner cases if they tried anything else. If the school doesn't have a scholarship, then the school can sort it out as they would any other "injury red shirt" type situation. Of course that student is free to transfer as any other fifth-year-senior would be.

I bet the NCAA concedes just because it makes them look good and doesn't cost them much, and obviously the biggest name in each of women's and men's ball is calling for it.

[devil84]

Thinking of not just basketball but many other winter sports at the entire range of collegiate levels how many athletes would come back simply to compete for one more season? A small percentage will go pro for life changing money. Absent going pro, they otherwise (hopefully) have planned what they are doing after graduation in about two months, something like employment or grad school. Sure, there are some that could require or desire another year to complete their degree, but I'm guessing the majority of senior athletes have plans that they wouldn't want to put on hold for a year. How many athletes would be interested in coming back for a year, particularly those who have a fraction of a scholarship, or no scholarship at all?

If there are only a few athletes, the NCAA can take it on a case by case basis.

As far as some teams being completely done by losing in their tournament, could you argue that there was fear of infection or uncertainty about the tournament, like the "with or without fans" issue, that could have affected play of those that lost prior to cancellation of the tournament? Without the uncertainty and fear, *could* they have won their games and went on to win their conference tournament, even in the face of impossible odds? I don't think it should be limited to only those schools who were in or likely to be in. All or nothing.

[knicknut]

It's quite selfless of K to support this publicly, considering it would help other schools/teams a lot more than Duke, since this ended up being one of Duke's weakest senior classes (J-Rob's emergence notwithstanding).

Imagine the difference in public reaction if we actually had a couple key seniors as contributors...

[grad_devil]

My school is dealing with this issue currently.

Note: we're a small D2 school (partial scholarship model) with limited athletics funding. I'm the Faculty Athletics Rep (FAR).

Granting an extra year of eligibility to those in spring sports is the right thing to do. However, the devil is in the details.

For example, one of our teams have signed all of the incoming freshmen recruits, and those recruits have signed financial aid agreements. It's great that some of the seniors can now come back, but their scholarship monies have been reallocated to these incoming freshmen.

In D2, your scholarship award is a one-year award and your coach must let you know by a specified date if your aid is reduced/canceled. If the aid is to be reduced/canceled, you have an opportunity to file an appeal and be heard by a faculty committee.

So if you're on the faculty committee - which I am - how do you rule if an appeal is made because a senior's aid has been canceled? It's obviously not the player's fault - they should get their extra eligibility after a truncated season. It's also not the coach's fault - they had to recruit for the following year and sign incoming players, attracting those players with the promise of scholarship money.

Giving a scholarship to both the incoming student and the returning student seems to be the right answer - and the NCAA will give a blanket waiver when it comes to scholarship equivalencies - but the real issue is here is where will that money come from? Most schools (especially small liberal arts institutions) are fighting their own financial issues, and there aren't extra funds lying around.

Of course we will grant a release without any restrictions to any student-athlete that wants to transfer, but that, unfortunately, doesn't solve the issue of wanting to finish your senior season with your team/teammates.

Like I said; the devil is in the details. While I know this isn't the most important thing going on right now, trying to figure out how to do right by the student-athletes as well as maintain our financial solvency will be an interesting story line over the next several months.

[lotusland]

It's quite selfless of K to support this publicly, considering it would help other schools/teams a lot more than Duke, since this ended up being one of Duke's weakest senior classes (J-Rob's emergence notwithstanding).

Imagine the difference in public reaction if we actually had a couple key seniors as contributors...

Depth at center is the biggest hole in next year’s lineup. Javin would be the presumptive starting center next year. Jack and JRob would be welcome depth. Last year Vrank was the only senior. Next year AOC and JGold. Having Grayson back as a Senior was unexpected. I’m not saying K was self-serving but, in the OAD era, this is a pretty good senior class.

[Deslok]

Other possible stipulation... another year is granted to those who actually graduate. I’m not going to argue about what’s a worthwhile degree or any other such nonsense. But the NCAA has publicly made it a goal for schools to have students in good academic standing. I haven’t thought long and hard on this, but it would seem a positive message that would serve multiple ends.

[lotusland]

Other possible stipulation... another year is granted to those who actually graduate. I’m not going to argue about what’s a worthwhile degree or any other such nonsense. But the NCAA has publicly made it a goal for schools to have students in good academic standing. I haven’t thought long and hard on this, but it would seem a positive message that would serve multiple ends.

So the purpose of the SCHOLARship would be to play basketball? I thought the benefit in lieu of salary was free education. I know, I know - grad school...

[75Crazie]

But the NCAA has publicly made it a goal for schools to have students in good academic standing.
And yet … the NCAA is powerless to discipline a school whose athletic participants have NO academic standing (other than course credits for which absolutely zero work was required).

I am finding it difficult to believe that anyone is seriously proposing additional eligibility for participants on basketball teams that completed their regular season schedule. Would those making such a proposal also recommend that football players be granted another year if the bowl season was similarly wiped out?